User talk:MarshallBagramyan

Archives

User_talk:MarshallBagramyan/Archive 1 (27 December 2005 - 29 July 2006) User_talk:MarshallBagramyan/Archive 2 (29 August 2006 - 5 November 2006) User_talk:MarshallBagramyan/Archive 3 (8 November 2006 - 18 March 2007) User_talk:MarshallBagramyan/Archive 4 (22 March 2007 - 9 June 2007) User_talk:MarshallBagramyan/Archive 5 (11 June 2007 - 4 December 2007) User_talk:MarshallBagramyan/Archive 6 (21 January 2008 - 29 July 2009) User_talk:MarshallBagramyan/Archive 7 (29 July 2009 - 25 August 2010)

Deleting sourced information

Hello. Here you removed the sourced information. What's wrong? --Quantum666 (talk) 18:26, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

overwelmed

How do you do it? IPs and stuff, you are outnumbered like 10 to 1. BTW, can you request a check with kheo17 and Garapapag. Garapapag had only two or three edits made 3 years ago..., and come recently to make the same reverts as kheo17. This more that shows that it is an alternative account of someone. Magotteers (talk) 15:18, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Well, I have been editing for almost five years now but patience comes in handy :) I would say that the edit wars are relatively useless as well, so try not to get entangled in them. But since you've already been reported for it, I would suggest you check out the helpful links that'll help you defend yourself. Also, thanks for pointing out the appearance of the new user; it does seem somewhat suspicious and I'll file a report soon.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 18:18, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

New section

Hello. Why did you remove Azeri name from Khanate of Erevan? --Quantum666 (talk) 13:34, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Regarding the khanate of Erevan page: you can read its talk page for the full debate but to put it briefly, it's an anachronism. There was no Azerbaijani state in that part of the region until 1918 and none of the Turkic groups living there at the time would have referred to themselves as "Azerbaijani".--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 18:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Whatever you call those people they lived there, there language was Azeri and their nationality was Azerbaijani (Another example of usage of such "anachronism" is "genocide" which is used to describe the events happened before the word was created. Shouldn't we use it then?) --Quantum666 (talk) 08:23, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

You're painting the Muslims who lived in that region with a thick brushstroke. Many of them would later go on to call themselves Azerbaijanis; but there were also other ethnic Turkic groups living in the Khanate, many of whom would probably would object to being called Azerbaijani if they were here today. As for the inappropriate analogy regarding the Armenian Genocide - please go read the article itself and that of Raphael Lemkin, who specifically invented that word after learning about the genocide. This is perhaps one of the weakest arguments used by Armenian Genocide denialists today and I'm quite saddened that you bothered to even bring it up. --Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 19:08, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

But the fact is the fact: Erevan khanate was inhabited by Azeris that time (as well as by Kurds, Persians and other people). So all those people have right to mention their name for the khanate in the article. --Quantum666 (talk) 20:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

SPI

Hi. We need some more info on the SPI case you opened before we can continue the investigation. If you could go there and respond to the requests, that'd be great. Thanks. — HelloAnnyong ^{(say whaaat?!)} 19:59, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

See my comment here. Magotteers (talk) 07:08, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

How do you find my evidence poiting that Kheo17 is Neftchi? Magotteers (talk) 18:59, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Quite convincing. I'm surprised I didn't see that earlier.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 19:04, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

New section

Hello. Here you reverted my edit. Could you please explain the reason? What is the relation between some "Muslim tradition" invented by you and the described events? Why do you present Walker's and Hovannisian's opinions as facts but not as their opinion? Why do you insert primary sources instead of using secondary ones? --Quantum666 (talk) 20:28, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

According to Islamic tradition, if a city resisted a siege, it gave itself up to a full-scale (typically 3 day-long) sack. The fact that the residents of Baku resisted the siege thus made it fully liable for pillaging (which is why it is included; other examples include the Fall of Constantinople in 1453 and or the city of Ani in 1064). This fact is relevant since multiple authors make mention of its importance and that this was the reason the Ottoman army did not formally enter the city until several days later.

Walker and Hovannisian, based on my reading, both believe that about 10,000 Armenians died. They simply make mention of the fact that higher figures have also been brought up - rather than check the material out yourself, you've automatically misinterpreted the citations that have been used to back up assertions which are never made.

As for the primary source: there is no rule on Wikipedia barring the use of such sources. The context is fully provided, as the reader understands what he is reading is a contemporary eyewitness account, and a significant one at that.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 21:56, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

There is only one source (Walker) claiming relation between "the tradition" and the events. This is not enough to present his opinion as a fact. It must be rewritten. I requested quotation from Walker.

But you wrote "Estimates of the dead range from 10,000 to 30,000 Armenians." This is not equal to "They simply make mention of the fact that higher figures have also been brought up". Your wording misinterprets the source and merely violates WP:NPOV and WP:DUE as most of the sources say about 10 000 but not about "from 10000 to 30000".

Yes we can use primary sources but very carefully and you cannot write claims (especially such controversial) based only on primary sources. You must provide secondary neutral RS confirming what is written in primary source. --Quantum666 (talk) 09:23, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

It looks like major portions of the book have been copy-pasted from Walker's book (which can be read here), so I've adjusted it accordingly, But while his statements do not directly reflect it, it looks likes that line has to be attributed to Hovannisian, who writes "Halil, Nuri, and Mursel withheld the entry of regular Ottoman units into Baku so that the age-old Islamic custom of looting and pillaging defiant cities might be observed." (Armenia on the Road to Independence, p. 227.)

I'm not misinterpreting anything: the sources support what is written. Even Walker says that "Estimates for the number of Armenian dead are around 20,000; the figure may easily have been higher. In this way the government of Azerbaijan installed itself in Baku, backed by Ottoman Turkish forces."

And the quotation is also taken from Walker's book, who in turn cites "Jacques Kayaloff, The Fall of Baku (Bergenfield, N.J., 1976), p. 12". See page 261 for the full text from the previous link I posted above. There's your secondary source--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 02:08, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Then shouldn't we use phrases like "According to", "As stated by"? --Quantum666 (talk) 16:13, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Problems with an article

Sorry to post this here. You've recently done work on [[1]], and mentioned a "discredited historian" & "denial" - no problem with your edit or anything like that. I've seen this problem elsewhere in the article. Do you feel some sections lack a neutral pov, and if so, how can this article be improved. Thanks.Ebanony (talk) 08:28, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

License tagging for File:Ghazanchetsots cupola.JPG

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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ukrainian People's Militia (2nd nomination)

Out of your area, but would really appreciate your language skills and general regional nous. Please take a look. Buckshot06 (talk) 03:02, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

		The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
		Thankyou for your varied assistance, troubleshooting and commitment to historical accuracy over the last few days. I am pleased to award you this barnstar.} Buckshot06 (talk) 09:11, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks a lot buddy. Anytime :)--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 02:24, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Review of actions

Would you be able to please review my past few actions with regard to User:Turco85 and tell me what you think? I need some further views to help me decide how to proceed here. Buckshot06 (talk) 20:28, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Reply

Hello, MarshallBagramyan. You have new messages at Tuscumbia's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Tuscumbia (talk) 20:08, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Opinion

Hi, Mareşal:) What do you think of Talk:Malibeyli and Gushchular Massacre, Talk:Garadaghly Massacre, Talk:Agdaban massacre ? Takabeg (talk) 03:09, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

I suggest you gather other users' opinions who know the subject better than I. I'm always available to appeal to, but talk to users who you think have the interests of the encyclopedia at heart, but also know the subject. Cheers Buckshot06 (talk) 08:39, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Given that I actually made the deletions incorrectly out-of-process, and the community is still deciding What is to be done?, I don't feel I can take any more action in this area at the moment. I suggest you approach User:Nick-D, who is already somewhat aware of this issue, as he has alrady commented on the WP:AN thread. Cheers Buckshot06 (talk) 20:44, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Armeniapedia

Hi MarshallBaghramyan - there's a vote to delete the Armeniapedia.org article. Can you please add your thoughts? Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Armeniapedia.org Thanks! --RaffiKojian (talk) 21:45, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks Marshall. No, I don't celebrate Novruz, although it has nothing to do with the New Year, at least in Azerbaijan. Happy New Year to you too! Tuscumbia (talk) 16:04, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

New section

Hello. Please do not remove quotation requests like you did in Armenian–Tatar massacres of 1905–1907. And why did you put npov tag in the article? --Quantum666 (talk) 09:35, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Drmbon

Hi

If you find time, please join Talk:Drmbon. I'd appreciate very much your opinion.

Best,-- Ashot  ^(talk) 11:18, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Irreconcilables

Good idea-- see the new article Irreconcilables Rjensen (talk) 23:16, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Historical Armenian settlements

Hi Marshall

The issue you raised is very interesting to me ([2]). Should you ever decide to pursue this, please let me know.

-- Ashot  ^(talk) 08:55, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Areni-1 winery

Hey Marshall. Just read your new article Areni-1 winery. Pretty good and informative! Great job! Tuscumbia (talk) 21:00, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Much appreciated.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 22:23, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Don't you think it would be better to have all the various articles about the finds of the excavation in just the one article? Scribblescribblescribble (talk) 21:06, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

For the moment, I don't see that happening. The cave does really appear to be a treasure trove (for archaeologists at least :) ) but I think we'll just have to wait this one out and see what other goodies are excavated. Maybe then we can create an article called "Areni-1" and reserve sections for each unearthed artifact. But right now it looks like the world's oldest piece of leather footwear and the world's oldest surviving winery deserve their own separate articles.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 22:23, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

No problem!

No problem, the Anastas Mikoyan article you've written is very good. To be honest, I don't know, I haven't read Robert Service's book about Stalin yet. I've read History of Modern Russia: From Tsarism to the Twenty-first Century, another book written by Service if that helps. To be totally honest I don't know very much about the Stalin Era, I know much more about the history of the late Soviet Union, meaning the period from 1964 til it's demise. As seen by my work here on Wikipedia, I've worked extensively on such articles as Leonid Brezhnev, Alexei Kosygin and Andrei Gromyko. Stalin: Court of the Red Tsar is a great book, and yes, I think you should keep it. While you're right that it is a "mish-mash" of historical events, it covers most, if not all, of Stalin's Soviet Union history. You could in theory reference all major events in Stalin's USSR with this book, so yes, keep it. Bye --TIAYN (talk) 20:34, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Areni-1 winery

—HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 12:03, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Twilight Chill

I too have observed and documented Twilight Chill's habit of subtly removing and suppressing information from articles, often without any discussion and most of the time through false and misleading edit summaries, mostly relating to Azerbaijan. Please monitor his activity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rjbronn (talk • contribs) 08:56, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

You are about to be topic-banned.

But you may make a statement in this AE thread first, if you wish.  Sandstein  22:18, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

"You are about to be topic-banned ... but you may make a statement"! Wikispeak for "I have the verdict pre-prepared so I will hang you, but I must follow the procedures so I invite you to attend the show trial"? Scribblescribblescribble (talk) 23:02, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

report

Please see this report [3]. Gorzaim (talk) 20:00, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Arbitration enforcement restriction: Armenia and Azerbaijan

In application and enforcement of WP:AA2#Amended Remedies and Enforcement, you are indefinitely restricted as follows: You may not make derogatory statements about sources or their authors on the sole basis of their nationality, place of birth or publication, ethnic group, religion or similar general characteristic that is unrelated to their reliability in terms of Wikipedia policy, in the context of the area of conflict of the arbitration case WP:AA2. This restriction is to be enforced by blocks or other discretionary sanctions. It is not to be construed so as to encourage any derogatory comments that it does not explicitly prohibit. The reason for this restriction is explained in this AE thread.  Sandstein  23:18, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

I think all this is a given, but I will formulate my words in better fashion next time. Thanks.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 01:54, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Possibly unfree File:Karo Qakhedjian.JPG

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Karo Qakhedjian.JPG, has been listed at Wikipedia:Possibly unfree files because its copyright status is unclear or disputed. If the file's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. You may find more information on the file description page. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at the discussion if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. --Magog the Ogre (talk) 01:03, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Anastas Mikoyan

Seeing that you wrote the article, I'm wondering, just wondering, why have you left so many things un-referenced when you could have referenced it a long-time ago? Even so, that's not why I'm here. I'm going to nominate the "Collective leadership" to GA Topic. The topic is to consist of Brezhnev (GA), Kosygin (GA), Podgorny (GA), Tikhonov (GA), Kirilenko (GA-nom), Mikoyan (GA) and the Suslov (Start; working on it) article, along with main article, "Collective leadership" (not even in existence yet). I'm wondering if i could include the Mikoyan article to the GA topic. I'm asking because I didn't write the article, YOU did. Anyhow, you could probably become a co-nominator of the topic if you want. --TIAYN (talk) 13:56, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, It's appreciated it. :) I'll leave you a note when I nominate the articles for GA topic. It may take some times since I havn't created the main article yet. --TIAYN (talk) 14:11, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

re

I'll try some more range blocks, if it continues past tomorrow I'll bring it up on ANI. I'm wary to go through the effort of semiprotecting dozens of pages when he'll just move to others instead. --Golbez (talk) 04:33, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Duduk

Hello. What does it mean:"The Iranica article is referring to a Balaban (which is only referred to in Azerbaijan as a duduk - so that doesn't make it the same". Does it mean that duduk is not an Armenian instument as it is called "apricot horn" in Armenia? --Quantum666 (talk) 19:41, 20 February 2011 (UTC) And please read the article carefully in Azerbaijan it is also called düdük. --Quantum666 (talk) 19:42, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Genocide

Hello MarshallBagramyan. Could you please see this [4], it's nonsense, how's Zangezur an Azeri Land? And also this sentence:

Genocide became an integral part of the Azeri history starting from the partition of the Azeri lands with the treaties of Gulustan in 1813 and Turkmenchay in 1828. And if you time also see [հttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_History#Azerbaijan], if it's a Genocide, why Sumgayit Pogrom isn't Genocide?--Aram-van (talk) 11:19, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks!

Tistsernavank

Hi,

Please have a look at Talk:Tsitsernavank Monastery‎. I wonder if you can help with preventing endless and useless dispute with well sourced argumentation.

Best, -- Ashot  ^(talk) 14:28, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Tsitsernavank Monastery

Hi there, I have just reverted your reversion of the edits to the Tsitsernavank Monastery article. I have been asked as a neutral party to have a look at the issue, and though I'm loath to protect the page to one version or the other I have asked all involved editors to refrain from simple reversions while we try and resolve this issue, and find a wording that is verifiable, reliably sourced and hopefully meets somewhere in the middle. As someone involved in the article please could you respond to the questions I have left on the talk page. Best regards ^Khukri 16:30, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi, Do you think Verman can behave the way he does and stay unsanctioned? -- Ashot  ^(talk) 05:48, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

He has already been warned twice about his actions so hopefully we will desist from such activity. If, however, the edit warring and the unnecessary invocations of ethnic identities are brought up again, he can be reported, or an administrator can impose, sanctions against him. Regards, --Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 16:59, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Why did they change the wording on Tsitsernavank Monastery? It now says Caucasian Albanian and has been protected from editing whereas before it said Armenian.--Moosh88 (talk) 04:46, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

NVM, I see that it was done by verman when the protection level was changed.--Moosh88 (talk) 04:53, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Learning Greek

Hello! I am sorry to say that you've come to the wrong person for this: as a Greek, the issue has never concerned me... Perhaps some of our resident linguists like User:Future Perfect at Sunrise might be able to help you, or you could place a request at Wikipedia:Reference desk/Language. Again, sorry for not being able to help, and best of luck! Cheers, Constantine ✍ 10:02, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Well, Greek, whether ancient or modern, is definitely not an easy language to master. It has a complex but regular grammar and syntax (similar to German, because German is based on Ancient Greek in these areas), but has a vast vocabulary with many peculiarities. From what my foreign friends tell me, the worst thing is the declension system, where different roots can be employed for the same meaning. For instance, the verb "I eat", trōō, is efaga, "I ate", but etrōga, "I was eating". I had a French teacher once who spoke some six or seven languages including Arabic, Russian and Hittite, and was trying to learn Greek; she found this thing absolutely maddening ;) To an extent, this is less the case in Ancient Greek (for many of these forms have been added over time from colloquialisms), but conversely, Modern Greek is considerably more simplified overall.

As to your other question, for an educated modern Greek, reading a Koine Greek or medieval text is relatively straightforward: if not 100%, one can at any rate get the gist. For Classical texts, it is more difficult, and if it is in a dialect other than pure Attic, it may be unintelligible. Aside from grammar and syntax, which has changed to a degree, the biggest change is the vocabulary, as you'd expect over 2,500 years and a few hundred wars, migrations and invasions. Many of the words used in Antiquity are now archaic or entirely obsolete. Those who were still taught Katharevousa have an advantage here. Constantine ✍ 00:03, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Verman1 expanding his non-constructive activities

Hi, just spotted Vermin's activities on Gandzasar Monastery. Not sure if this is enough to report him. Whatsoever, this is just to make you aware to keep an eye on. Best, -- Ashot  ^(talk) 14:00, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Hi, you may read Sandstain's response here: [5]. Best, -- Ashot  ^(talk) 04:37, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

I am not familiar with ArbCom2. Could you please pursue this issue there and I'll keep an eye to see if I can help somehow. Thanks. -- Ashot  ^(talk) 17:04, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Thank you very much for taking the time and reporting Verman1. I just, wanted to ask whether this may be considered yet another notification to him. Regards. -- Ashot  ^(talk) 06:14, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Karabakh Khanate

Can you please watch these articles [6], there is more vandalism. Its a Qajar dynasty not Azerbaijani, and the reliable sources were removed again. 75.51.164.40 (talk) 20:44, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Request for advice

Hi, Please have a look at this edit. What do you think should be done about it? Best, -- Ashot  ^(talk) 16:36, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Vandalism on Orontid Dynasty

Please watch the Orontid Dynasty article. There was an Azeri Turk blocked for 2 weeks, once he returned he changed the Orontids to "Persian dynasty" -> [7] again! Please watch these articles, I even let Moosh88 know about it and he didnt pay attention either to the changes. It was like this for 8 hours! The guy changed the info it was like this for hours! Please report him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.51.174.163 (talk) 19:14, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Same issue in Satrapy of Armenia

I provided the ancient sources of Xenophon and Moses of Chorene, both of them mention Tigran Yervanduni (Orontid) being an ally of Cyrus the Great. And as you know one of the most common Armenian names is from this dynasty, Yervand. You already know these things, but you can help out to mention to Kansas Bear. Phoenicians8 (talk) 16:45, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Here is also the most recent change in this page in case you missed it [8] Phoenicians8 (talk) 00:34, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Karabakh Khanate

The Karabakh Khanate page is open now and as you see here again [9], they are removing the sources that mention the Qajar dynasty, and adding their political agenda of Azeri Turk dynasty. Can you take a look at this? Phoenicians8 (talk) 00:34, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Hate to say I told you so.....

I guess what I said about those certain editors, removing information about Persian ancestry/origin and the cooresponding references, was correct.[10] --Kansas Bear (talk) 17:49, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

This makes two reverts![11] --Kansas Bear (talk) 18:37, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

And this one[12], is quite amusing. De-linking Iranian people???..... Wow. --Kansas Bear (talk) 02:26, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Hmm, problematic, yes. I think his editing activities are going to be curtailed if he doesn't shape up. Warnings don't seem to be getting through him.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 19:12, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

This being the THIRD revert.[13]. Following this last revert, I would suggest you file a sockpuppet inquiry. --Kansas Bear (talk) 04:21, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

So is Aryamahasattva, a sockpuppet of Phoenicians8? Numerous anon IPs have popped up to revert Orontid dynasty(far to many to begin to count or track).... --Kansas Bear (talk) 23:14, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

You are wrong Kansas Bear, the info you have read you have not done enough research: "Darius I of Persia sent an "Armenian" named "Dâdarši" to suffocate the revolt <--- Dadarsi was Satrap of Bactria !! this Armenian was satrap there, this is not an Iranian, nor are the rest of them!" 75.51.160.60 (talk) 23:22, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

You are wrong sockpuppet, Marshall and AgadaUrbanit came to a compromise on the talk page. Something you are incapable of using, apparently. Since IF you would look on the talk page you would find NUMEROUS university sources calling Orontid of Persian/Bactrian origin. So continue to ignore facts and go play in your edit-war... --Kansas Bear (talk) 23:31, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Karabax/Arcax

For some reason, my computer acted weird and my edit summary didn't show up. But basically, I meant to say that I thought that that image was better as it showed a more multi-faced view of the conflict. Thanks. --Yalens (talk) 17:37, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, but all those photos are found below in the article anyways so why repeat them? The issue was raised a few months ago but I don't think anyone it will do the article any sustaining damage if we replace it with something else. If you ask me, I would simply prefer a composition photo of the Ghazanchetsots Church and the mosque in Shushi, although I am unaware if such a carefully-taken photo like that exists. I tried to take such a shot when I was there a couple years ago but my camera kept playing games with me :| --Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 19:12, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Major POV and distortions in Urartian language page

Please revert those edits, that is complete distortion of the sources [14] they are providing![15] They are saying that, "Armenian replaced the former language Urartian in 5TH CENTURY AD!, before that they are putting it was territory of Urartu!, before 5th century "AD" <--AD ??? Please read the discussions and revert back to the stable original versions.

Here is the POV and major distortions:

It is Classical Armenian that emerges in written records in the 5th century AD as the dominant language of what had used to be Urartian territory.[5]

76.237.9.215 (talk) 23:01, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

I've responded on User:Kevorkmail's talk page, where the same message has been posted [16].--Anonymous44 (talk) 00:43, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Khojaly Massacre in Armenia page??

They just added a section Khojaly Massacre in the Armenia article. I dont think that belongs in the article? And if it is even factual information to begin with. 75.51.173.222 (talk) 19:38, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

File permission problem with File:SAEStepanakert.jpg

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Stepanakert Airport

Hi Marshal, could you please comment on the new version proposed by me at Talk:Stepanakert Airport. Thanks, -- Ashot  ^(talk) 05:09, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Armenians article infobox

Can you revert the infobox recently changed by user Vahan. He has included a certain Turkish person, apparently of some Armenian decent, but is an unimportant figure for the infobox on Armenians. He also removed Hayk (he tries to give reasons for removing it in talk page), which we call ourselves by Hayk and Hay to our country and peoples. 76.246.25.215 (talk) 21:05, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Name of Armenia article

Can you revert the last revision that removed the references and is regarding the Akaddian record Armani, which in that page they are removing the link to Name of Armenia.

Now on top of that, User Dougweller comes and removes further info from the page. The part that it even says "Further Speculation", he removes specifically the Egyptian record of "Ermenen" by Thutmose III of Egypt. (and you know why? he wants there to be a huge gap from the 2200 BC records to the 500 BC, when we have the 1400 BC in between these huge gaps of time, in order to not connect all of them as one and the same) It says speculation but he still removes it!? Please restore those records, there is even references and sources to that record. The previous user also removed referenced material regarding Armenians being native and not from Phrygia etc, that the IE colonies went westward from Armenia, not the other way around. 76.246.25.215 (talk) 21:07, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Can you please put this record back? 75.51.172.42 (talk) 20:19, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Mr. Bagramyan, can you please restore those records/info already? I also noticed in the Armenians page, that the user Vahan.Hovn had added other languages where it says in the infobox "Language(s)", where as if you check in for example the Greeks page, it only says Greek language. It always said only the Armenian language, now he has added, Russian, Persian, French, English, Arabic, Turkish etc, to that list. Can you please fix these things???? 76.232.254.120 (talk) 19:31, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Iran in Nagorno-Karabakh war

According to recent edits, Iran is said to be a belligerent on the Azeri side. Both of these sources, aside from only being Armenian, are very recent (less than a week old). I am seriously doubting the validity of the claim. First of all, it is contradicted by earlier belief- including that further down on the page- that Iran actually favored Armenia in the conflict due to the threat of a stable, secular state run by Azeri Shias inspiring unrest or irridentism in their brethren in Iranian Azerbaijan, among other things (Azeri irridentism, Iranian dislike for secularist Azeri Shias, etc...). Furthermore, these sources say that "According to Ayatollah Ameli [supposedly a reliable source?], Iran also provided logistical support in the delivery, if necessary to the front lines, of thousands of fighters from Afghanistan.", which at least I find odd, considering that the "Afghan fighters" in question are labeled as being the muhajideen that previously fought Russia and then later the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan (the Northern Alliance which Iran backed against them). And how cozy could hardline Shia Iran really have gotten with a Sunni fighting group (I could understand maybe if they were Hazaras, but as far as I know that isn't the case...)? I did not revert although I was tempted to... what are your thoughts on this? --Yalens (talk) 20:55, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, it does seem to come off as empty boasting, even though it's quite possible that Iran may have provided some sort of aid in one form or another to Azerbaijan during the war. If we don't see any independent press reports or see some official comments made by Iranian officials over the next few days, I myself would not oppose its removal. Let me know if anything turns up. Best,--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 21:45, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

FYI

Your comment on draft here is welcome. AgadaUrbanit (talk) 06:38, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Stepanakert damage photo

We need sources, your comment is welcome [17]. Neftchi (talk) 15:37, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Mechanisms against POV-pushing

Hi Marshal, I wonder what is the mechanism in Wikipedia to fight "sophisticated" POV-pushing. E.g. an editor launches RfC and all uninvolved editors give favor to one version, but a number of partisans give vote to another. How it can be assured that the discussion is not closed with the result "no consensus" simply because some partisans took active participation in the RfC? -- Ashot  ^(talk) 15:33, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Sandstain

Hi Marshal, are you aware who is currently on the position of Sandstain, who appears no more engaged in AE? I guess Angel deserves some attention. -- Ashot  ^(talk) 06:07, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure if he/she has been formally warned but if you choose not to take it to arbitration or file a formal complaint you can try speaking to editor Golbez, who is very informed in this area, although I wouldn't worry about it too much, as Neftchi's edits seem to be far more troubling and disruptive for the moment.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 07:01, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Golbez seems to be tired of Armenia-Azerbaijan related issues on Wikipedia. I have that feeling from a couple of recent interactions with him. As per Neftchi, I agree that he tresspasses certain limits on regular basis. -- Ashot  ^(talk) 08:19, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Neftchi

Just for your attention: Neftchi's recent edit, and Golbez' note (as it refers to him). -- Ashot  ^(talk) 18:10, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Some sources that might be interesting

Hi Marshal, think these sources might be Interesting (in case you are not already aware of them):

THE SHOPS are empty. The fruit and vegetable market is closed: agricultural produce from the villages does not reach the city because of a petrol shortage. Soviet troops stand at every street corner. Killings are frequent. Stepanakert, capital of the disputed territory of Nagorny Karabakh, is at the centre of a region on the brink of civil war.

Arguably, that war has already begun. Yervant Maroutian, an Armenian doctor in the region, warns of Nagorny Karabakh becoming 'the Lebanon of the Soviet Union'. For almost two months, the Armenians in Nagorny Karabakh - an enclave within the republic of Azerbaijan - have relied on helicopters arriving at Stepanakert Airport for emergency supplies and daily food.

As a response to Nagorny Karabakh's demand to leave Azerbaijan and become part of the Armenian republic, the Azeris imposed what was described as an economic blockade. Rail routes were cut. In addition, the Armenians, who form a majority within Nagorny Karabakh, claim that every road into the region has been rendered dangerous for Armenians. According to the mayor of Stepanakert, Maxim Mirzoyan: 'Since the blockade, the Azeris have resorted to attacking Armenian villages and the outskirts of the city regularly.'

Since January, Nagorny Karabakh has been under the jurisdiction of a special committee ruling from Moscow. Both sides, Armenians and Azeris, had their own reasons for ensuring that direct rule failed. Robert Ghazarian, a doctor at Stepanakert hospital, claims that the Soviet authorities do not care what happens to those in Nagorny Karabakh, and asks: 'Why doesn't Gorbachev send some troops to lift the blockade? We do not understand.'

Armenians want Nagorny Karabakh to form part of Armenia. Azeris, however, are equally determined to prevent such a change. Some Armenians in Karabakh say they are in despair. 'We have had enough. Azerbaijan stifled us economically, culturally and in every possible way. We cannot go on,' said a woman queueing in front of the main bakery in Stepanakert. She had been standing there for more than five hours. 'The army truck came in and took tons of bread while we've been waiting here. Do you think it is fair?'

Earlier this month, Soviet troops fired on crowds, killing one person and injuring five. According to the official account, the troops had been stoned, though Armenians denied this. By the end of the night, Stepanakert hospital had run out of bandages. The hospital, the region's largest, says it cannot cope with the growing number of injured.

The helicopter in which I landed in Karabakh was carrying medical supplies and, more importantly, a surgeon from Erevan to treat a man who had been shot two days earlier by Azeris at his workplace in a village near Stepanakert. The surgeon arrived too late: his patient died the next day.

The shortages are all-pervasive. When the parents of a Russian worker, shot by the Azeris, came to collect the body of their son, it proved almost impossible to find enough petrol to get the body to the airport.

Nagorny Karabakh's Armenian population initially sought to take advantage of Mikhail Gorbachev's perestroika. In February last year, the regional parliament voted unanimously to become part of Soviet Armenia. 'We believed in Gorbachev then,' said Janna Kalsdian, an actress from Erevan, who has come back to her birthplace, Stepanakert. 'Now look what they are doing to us. They are standing aside, and watching the Azeris kill us one by one.' The Armenians say the Azeris are armed with machine-guns and other sophisticated weapons, a claim which the wounds of the injured appear to bear out.

Armenians in Karabakh feel isolated, and the sense of distrust is everywhere. In the words of the commentator Armen Hovhannissian: 'In the West, people talk about human rights. At one time, the rights of one political prisoner in the Soviet Union were an important issue. But now a whole nation is on the brink of annihilation - and nobody is doing anything about it.'

For the inhabitants of the enclave, the situation of their brethren in the republic of Armenia is no better. Mr Hovhannissian continues: 'In Armenia there are more than a million homeless, both from the earthquake of December 1988 and refugees from Azerbaijan. The Azeri blockade hampers any type of work towards solving the problems. All this is creating political frustration and I cannot foresee where it will lead. Solutions must be found soon.'

Nelly Danielian, a teacher, spoke the day after the shooting of demonstrators in Stepanakert: 'At school, my pupils were asking this morning: 'Is it war?' I had to say yes, because it is war. The Azeris want it, and what should we do?'

Source: "Besieged Armenians say they face civil war in a Soviet 'Lebanon': Ani King-Underwood reports from Stepanakert, a city rarely visited by foreigners, on the Armenian enclave's slide into civil war with the Azeris who would rule it". The Independent (London). October 24 1989. p. 10. {{cite news}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); Check date values in: |date= (help)

Ten thousand Armenians have been forcibly deported from the disputed Azerbaijani enclave of Nagorno-Karabakh since April, an international human rights group said yesterday.

Residents of Armenian villages inside Azerbaijan were illegally detained, harassed and tortured, said the delegation, which visited the area before holding a news conference in Moscow yesterday.

Members of the group said they were held at gunpoint and threatened by Azerbaijani special police. The delegation was led by Baroness Caroline Cox, deputy speaker of the British House of Lords.

They were first outside observers allowed to visit the remote region in the Caucasus mountains. Nagorno-Karabakh is part of Azerbaijan, but most of its residents are ethnic Armenians.

Nagorno-Karabakh is claimed by both Azerbaijan and Armenia, two of the 15 republics that make up the Soviet Union.

Residents of Nagorno-Karabakh want to become part of the Armenian republic, but Azerbaijani leaders refuse to let it go.

The resulting conflict has led to ferocious ethnic violence over the last two years in the region, with Armenians and Azerbaijanis carrying out pogroms in Nagorno-Karabakh and elsewhere.

"Forced deportations continue in the Armenian villages in and around Nagorno-Karabakh. . . . Evidence shows the deportations are brutally enforced. They involve loss of life, property and physical injury," the group's report said.

The report also said Armenian paramilitary groups were to blame for armed attacks on local Azeribaijanis, although the violations were on a lesser scale.

Asked about the scale of the deportations, members of the delegation put the figure at 10,000 since the end of April.

Azerbaijan's president, Ayaz Mutalibov, denied Tuesday that Soviet and Azerbaijani troops were forcibly deporting Armenians and said those leaving were doing so of their own accord.

The human rights delegation's report asked for an immediate end to deportations and attacks on civilians, as well as withdrawal of Azerbaijani special police from Nagorno-Karabakh.

The special police - known as "black berets" - held the delegation at gunpoint and threatened it at the airport of the regional capital Stepanakert when members tried to prevent the arrest of five Armenians, delegation members said.

The local "black berets," with no professional training and consisting of Azeribaijanis driven from Armenia, appeared to be out of control and responsible for most of the atrocities in the region, a member of the delegation said.

The delegation was set up last May in Moscow at an international human rights conference held in memory of Soviet Nobel Prize winner Andrei Sakharov.

Source: Anatoly Verbin, Reuters (July 18, 1991). "ARMENIANS DEPORTED, TORTURED, SAY OBSERVERS". Philadelphia Inquirer. p. A04. {{cite news}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); |author= has generic name (help)

THE WORST fighting in four years of conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan flared up in Nagorno-Karabakh yesterday, as Azeri rockets pounded the capital, Stepanakert, and Armenian forces seized the Azeri town of Khojaly.

The Azerbaijani interior minister, Tofik Kerimov, told the independent news agency Interfax that 100 people were killed in the attack on Khojaly, an Azeri stronghold in the mainly Armenian enclave. Armenian sources said casualties were much lower because civilians had been evacuated.

Unquestionably, however, there was a huge escalation in the four-year-old conflict, forcing the Iranian foreign minister, Ali Akbar Velayati, to abandon a plan to visit Nagorno-Karabakh yesterday as part of his attempt to mediate.

Russian television showed terrifying scenes of heavy Grad rockets blasting Stepanakert, large parts of which have been laid waste by Azeri bombardment. Armenian forces have retaliated by firing on nearby Shusha, the only Azeri town in Nagorno-Karabakh still in the hands of Azerbaijan's troops.

Each side accuses the other of trying to drive out its population. They both allege former Soviet troops have been helping their opponents - a charge hotly denied by the local command, which says several soldiers have been killed despite their refusal to get involved.

The attack on Khojaly, which the Azeri Popular Front said had been left "in ashes", appears to have been part of an Armenian counter-offensive to halt the bombardment on the capital. A concerted Armenian effort to take Shusha too can be expected in the next few days. Armenian forces also regained control of Stepanakert's airport yesterday.

Last Sunday Azeri forces overran an arms depot belonging to former Soviet troops in Agdam, just outside Nagorno-Karabakh, and seized huge quantities of arms, including Grad rockets.

Mr Velayati had talks with Azerbaijan's President Ayaz Mutalibov on Tuesday, and is due to see President Levon Ter-Petrosyan in the Armenian capital, Yerevan, today. But on the ground, his mediation efforts have been brushed aside as ruthlessly as were earlier attempts by Russia. Reports by Tehran Radio on Tuesday that both sides had agreed to a 24-hour ceasefire were greeted with incredulity by both Armenia and Azerbaijan. Iran said a second attempt at a ceasefire would be made today.

Yesterday the French minister for humanitarian action, Bernard Kouchner, said France was trying to put together a peace plan for the region by involving the European Community, the CSCE and the United Nations, which Armenia and Azerbaijan are due formally to join next week.

The plan, which France will present to the EC, "envisages a ceasefire followed by demilitarisation, and in the short term, access to the wounded and the establishment of humanitarian corridors," Mr Kouchner said.

- Three soldiers died in a mutiny by hundreds of construction troops stationed at the former Soviet space centre of Baikonur, in Kazakhstan, Russian television reported yesterday. It said the mutiny broke out in protest against abysmal living conditions and ill treatment by officers. Several barracks were burned down, 17 cars were stolen and 35,000 roubles stolen from a paymaster's office.

Source:"KARABAKH VIOLENCE GROWS". The Guardian (London). February 27, 1992. p. 20. {{cite news}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help)

Best, -- Ashot  ^(talk) 16:19, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

AE Report

Dear MarshallBagramyan, please see this report on enforcement: [18]. Angel670 talk 19:31, 24 May 2011 (UTC)