Talk:Cold-weather warfare

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Untitled[edit]

the phrasing "The Falklands War in the 1980s had to end in June" has to be changed: according to whom did it have to end?

Unreferenced[edit]

This article is so unreferenced that it is not even clear that the term is defined correctly in the article! On the face of it, Arctic Warfare would be a term used to describe warfare taking place in the Arctic, with a possible stretch to include the Antarctic. I could find no references to indicate that it applies to warfare in the cold.

It is untrue that the Germans had only one ski division and that the Soviets had several. The Germans had the 1st through6th Gebirgs Divsions, !st Ski Division, the 6th SS Gebirgsjaeger and 13th(?) SS Karstjaeger Division, as well as other divisions, trained in ski, snowshoe and mountain combat. The Soviets did not have a single dedicated ski or mountain division, although they did use ski troops. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.26.14.163 (talk) 03:55, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Even if it did, India/Pakistan, Afghanistan and Yugoslavia certainly don't count. DJ Clayworth (talk) 19:56, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Requested move 10 December 2016[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Cold-weather warfare. User:HopsonRoad 14:31, 13 December 2016 (UTC)



Arctic warfareWinter warfare – The article is primarily about winter warfare with some references to combat that actually took place in the arctic. A name change gives the correct emphasis. Arctic warfare should redirect to this page, not the other way around. User:HopsonRoad 22:38, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

Comment Do you have some sources to suggest that "Winter warfare" is the more common name for this? Bear in mind that some places are cold all year round, and not just in winter. (Hohum @) 02:31, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for checking in, Hohum. The US Army has a Northern Warfare Training Center at Fort Wainwright, Alaska and Mountain Warfare School in Jericho, Vermont, both of which emphasize winter operations. There is no universally accepted term. The article is clearly about winter operations, which take place primarily in the north or in mountains. Very little of it pertains to the Arctic. User:HopsonRoad 04:08, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
So far, it seems to me that British/Commonwealth sources tend to use "Arctic Warfare" and American ones "Winter Warfare" and "Northern Warfare", I don't know if there is more global variety. If there is no universally accepted term, what's the basis of changing it? WP:COMMONNAME prefers the most common name used in reliable sources; if it's unclear which is most common, we use the one the article originally has and provide redirects. (Hohum @) 04:37, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for getting back, Hohum. I'm not sure what sources you have in mind for British uses of the word. However, it's hard to apply the word, "Arctic", to the majority of the battles described in the article, cf: Battle on the Ice, Battle of Bogesund, the Dano-Swedish wars, Great Northern War, Finnish War, French invasion of Russia, Winter War, most winter operations in World War II, even the Aleutian Islands Campaign was not in the Arctic, winter conflict in this century has been in the Himalayas, e.g. Siachen conflict. So, it's on a common-sense basis that this article is about winter warfare and only incidentally mentions conflict in the Arctic. User:HopsonRoad 13:15, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
The following British sources use the term, "cold-weather": Royal Navy and Royal Marines. User:HopsonRoad 13:23, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
The US Army uses "Mountain Warfare and Cold Weather Operations" in its ATP on the subject. Nonetheless, this article is primarily about conflict in winter, when cold is prevalent. However, I'd be content to rename the article "Cold-weather warfare", if that worked for others. User:HopsonRoad 13:47, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
Cold-weather warfare would seem to cover it - I think it would be a good idea to announce this RFC at WT:MILHIST to get more opinions than mine though. (Hohum @) 14:36, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
Thanks, I've done so. User:HopsonRoad 14:50, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
  • Support alternative: Cold-weather warfare: arctic warfare is an oft-used description but as noted is not perfect, however winter warfare is at best no better and at worst much much poorer a title. Spain has a winter and has had wars during said winter but such conflicts would not fall under the remit of this article. Cold-weather warfare is a term used in the literature and avoids both the problems associated with winter and arctic. Ebonelm (talk) 23:05, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Day/night effects[edit]

Do the sources being used mention changes in warfare due to the longer nights in winter, and also the effect of polar night and/or midnight sun on operations conducted close to the poles? (Hohum @) 02:20, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Indeed. I added "During winter night operations are the norm, since higher latitudes have longer periods of darkness." under Tactics. User:HopsonRoad 03:03, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
Night operations in the event of 24 hour sunlight would seem unlikely ;), so that probably needs some expansion. (Hohum @) 03:25, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
Just paraphrasing the manual! User:HopsonRoad 03:57, 12 December 2016 (UTC)