Talk:Italian language

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Comment[edit]

"Italian is descended from Latin. Unlike most other Romance languages, Italian retains Latin's contrast between short and long consonants. As in most Romance languages, stress is distinctive." Speling12345 (talk) 8:50, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Italian is a recognized[edit]

Italian is a recognized minority language in Israel. Speling12345 (talk) 8:52, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Closeness to Latin[edit]

The lead previously stated that Italian is closest to Latin after Sardinian. The source, however, was an old study that did not make that claim, only saying that the Italian vowel system is closest to Latin after Sardinian, so I edited the article to reflect that. An IP alleged this was vandalism, which indicates a lack of understand of what vandalism on Wikipedia means. The IP reinserted the claim using a source (Encyclopaedia Britannica, so a good source) but as it's behind a pay wall and the IP did not cite (as in "cite", not "paraphrase" or "summarize") what EB says, I invite the IP to do so here. Jeppiz (talk) 21:28, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

The dynamic IP seems to refuse the discussion, and reinserted the claim over WP:BRD. Once again, please engage and discuss the matter instead of just edit warring as you're currently doing. Jeppiz (talk) 22:07, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

It is NOT behind a paywall, relevant statement is literally quoted in the note, but you probably didn't want to read it: "if the Romance languages are compared with Latin, it is seen that by most measures Sardinian and Italian are least differentiated and French most (though in vocabulary Romanian has changed most)". Entry "Romance languages", Paragraph "Classification methods and problems". Link: https://www.britannica.com/topic/Romance-languages Now, do you really you want to question E. Britannica, or do you only want to vandalize the page? 188.11.54.61 (talk) 22:18, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

First of all, if you do not know how to behave and you have no interest in Wikipedia policies, you should not edit Wikipedia. Everything about your behavior is wrong here. Second, I already said EB is a reliable source, and nobody has argued against the truth of the claim. The problem is that you change "it is seen that by most measures to "is". Jeppiz (talk) 22:26, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
So you just want to add the expression "by most measures"? Then why didn't you do it, instead of deleting everything? Anyways, if you want to add those 3 specific words, I'm ok with that. As for the behavior, removing well sourced and long-standing information not only is "impolite", but also against wikipedia rules. 188.11.54.61 (talk) 22:34, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
I've removed your claim that was a day old and undiscussed. What I did prior to that was to move a claim and rewrite it so that it aligned with the source, which is exactly what we are all required to do if we discover claims not corresponding to the source. Jeppiz (talk) 22:36, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
Sure, except that the "undiscussed claim" was taken from what is probably the most reputable encyclopedia on the planet, the attached note didn't "summarize", but literally quoted the relevant statement, the "paywall" that allegedly prevented you from checking the source was not really a paywall at all, and most English speakers would probably agree that the new language that we agreed upon is - "by most measures" (excuse me for the pun) - basically equivalent to the one that I had used first. It was an interesting discussion, I'm very satisfied with the final result. 188.11.54.61 (talk) 23:25, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

Combinations of clitic pronouns[edit]

Could a native speaker please take a look at this? It's about combinations of clitic pronouns. Esszet (talk) 19:09, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

Minority languages[edit]

Please continue to revert all these claims of minority languages being falsely recognized based on the original research that an Italian minority in a country constitutes an official status being given by said country. Just reverted these unsourced claims that stuck for nearly three weeks by an IP user. Example: United States. There is no such official minority of the Italian language recognized by the U.S. government or by any individual states. Heck, French isn't even official in Louisiana. Savvyjack23 (talk) 02:50, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

Added countries who officially recognized it as a minority language (sourced). Savvyjack23 (talk) 06:51, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

Classification[edit]

The following was a sub-note added in the classification's section by Strikerino. While I will attempt to formalized his note without the personal additions in-article, I believe his initial thoughts should be addressed on the talk page. It read,

"The following needs to be mentioned, that the Sicilian language is actually a direct descendant of Vulgar Latin. Therefore it the second Romance language, this is a fact that many linguists do not mention, in the case of the Tuscan being the precursor of Italian is incorrect. Dante himself wrote that he was a big fan of the Sicilian school which was already transcribing in Sicilian in the 13th century. Later on Tuscan scholars were greatly influenced by Sicilian scholars who had already distinguished themselves throughout the Italian peninsula. In one instance a Sicilian notary in Milan whose task was to transcribe important document had filled in the blank spaces with Sicilian poems to make sure that no one could add anything after the documents had been made legal. An article was published by Noemi Ghetti in an Italian magazine called the "Babylon Post" in 2013, which shows evidence of researches finding documents proving this.[1]" Savvyjack23 (talk) 02:17, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

gemination of initial consonants[edit]

Gemination of initial consonants is not standard Italian at all. Just listen to "standard speakers" like theatre actors and movie dubbing. Actually, it is regarded as a vernacular pronunciation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.46.180.189 (talk) 10:32, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Some Suggestions[edit]

1. The intro seems to be a bit overly detailed regarding the history of the language. Some of the content in the third paragraph would be better situated as an introductory paragraph in the history section.

2. We may want to add a section detailing the geographical expansion of the Italian language over the course of history and how it spread outside of Italy.

Djiang1019 (talk) 01:12, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

3. The grammar section could definitely be expanded more - this source is a pretty good free source of information. https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=JttCb4GHLqsC&oi=fnd&pg=PP2&dq=italian+language&ots=Pz-5NY01fa&sig=SJ28XVQtvUWF1XTLtveLEOviNEs#v=onepage&q=italian%20language&f=false Djiang1019 (talk) 21:51, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

4. We can add a table containing information regarding the population of Italian speakers by country. Ethnologue (https://www.ethnologue.com/language/ita) contains this information for larger countries, but other sources may be needed for smaller ones.

5. We can compare simple Italian morphemes (such as pronouns) to that of other Latin or other Romance languages.

Djiang1019 (talk) 21:51, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

Suggestions[edit]

This template should only be used in the user namespace.


    There are a few items that I would like to add to the article Italian Language. One thing I want to add is more in the Renaissance section. I think it is important to discuss the spread of the Italian language, but also say how the protestant reformation, which occurred simultaneous to the renaissance, allowed for the spread of other languages, such as German. I think it is important to note that because the Renaissance not only promoted the spread of the Italian language, but also led to the spread of other languages as people started breaking away form the Roman Catholic Church. 
    Another thing I would add is more information about the advancement of technology. I think it is important to note that through various technological advancements, people are able to learn the Italian language much easier. For example, from the app Duolingo, I could learn Italian just through my wireless device.

Possible references and sources:

The role of technology http://ro.uow.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1013&context=etc08 Modern Language Journal -- Technology in Language Use, Language Teaching, and Language Learning -- http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/modl.12302/epdf?r3_referer=wol&tracking_action=preview_click&show_checkout=1&purchase_referrer=onlinelibrary.wiley.com&purchase_site_license=LICENSE_DENIED_NO_CUSTOMER ICT and Language Learning: From Print to the Mobile Phone by M. Kenning -- https://books.google.com/books?id=TNOHDAAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false https://www.theguardian.com/teacher-network/teacher-blog/2014/may/12/technology-language-teaching-learning-pedagogy Reanna.shah (talk) 23:00, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

Addition to Article[edit]

Renaissance[edit]

The Renaissance era was known as the time of "rebirth." The long-exsisting ideals that the Roman Catholic Church held were being understood from new perspectives. Individuals were forming new beliefs in various forms: social, political, and intellectual. The Roman Catholic Church was losing its control over the population by not being open to change and the increase in opposing beliefs. [1] The ideals of the Renaissance were shown throughout the Protestant Reformation, which took place simultaneously to the Renaissance. The Renaissance embraced ideals of humanism, which was the idea of encouraging individual to focus on themselves and their full potential. The Protestant Reformation began with Martin Luther disagreeing with the selling of indulgences from Johann Tetzel and his eventual break-off from the Roman Catholic Church in the Diet of Worms. After Luther was excommunicated from the Roman Catholic Church, he founded a sect of Catholicism, called Lutheranism. Luther believed in faith alone and scripture alone, so he decided to translate the Bible into many other languages which would allow for people from all over Europe to read the Bible. Previously, the Bible was only written in Latin, but after the Bible was translated, it could be understood in many other languages, including Italian. The Italian language was able to spread even more with the help of Luther and the invention of the printing press by Johannes Gutenberg. The printing press facilitated the spread of Italian because it was able to rapidly produce texts, such as the Bible, and cut the costs of books which allowed for more people to have access to the translated Bible and new pieces of literature [2]. Reanna.shah (talk) 22:55, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

==

Technology[edit]

(maybe under education)

The continual advancements in technology plays a crucial role in the diffusion of languages. Due to the fact that the Internet is widely accessible to many people across the world, educational institutions implemented the use of technology throughout its teachings. Technology allows for globalization to occur; people are able to communicate with each other from all parts of the globe and spread their languages and ideas. Speakers of a variety of languages from all over the world use technological devices, such as computers and smartphones, are able to write to each other and share their cultures. [3].

The use of technology has a major impact on the teachings of languages. Educational institutions incorporate technology to facilitate students in the teachings of foreign languages. Prior to the breakthrough of technology, teachers would primarily use chalkboards and students had to learn the vocabulary and grammar through old-fashioned textbooks. Now, the implementation of technological devices allows for teachers to create presentations and incorporate helpful videos to teach the information and students have access to a plethora of information and the ability to analyze their own speech when they are learning a new language. In addition, students have the chance to communicate directly with their teacher at any time of the day if they need help with a specific topic. On the other hand, technology can have a negative influence in the learning environment. Instead of students using the Internet on technological devices as a learning tool, they can use the Internet to do things that are not strictly related to the task at hand. In addition, if the students and/or teacher do not know how to use the piece of technology, the time it takes to learn how to use the piece of technology could have been utilized in other areas pertaining to the actual study of the language.[4]. Reanna.shah (talk) 23:02, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

References[edit]

  1. ^ The Editors of Encyclopædia Britannica. "Renaissance". Encyclopædia Britannica. Encyclopædia Britannica, inc. Retrieved 16 July 2017. 
  2. ^ Zucker, Steven; Harris, Beth. "An Introduction to the Protestant Reformation". khanacademy. khanacademy. Retrieved 8 July 2017. 
  3. ^ Chun, Dorothy; Kern, Richard; Smith, Bryan. "Technology in Language Use,Language Teaching, and Language Learning". The Modern Language Journal. Retrieved 12 July 2017. 
  4. ^ Williams, Martin. "Is technology a silver bullet for language teaching and learning?". theguardian. Guardian News and Media. Retrieved 16 July 2017. 

z[edit]

" ⟨z⟩ symbolizes /dz/ or /ts/ depending on context" seems to be incorrect or at least misleading since there are so many exceptions listed at Italian_orthography#S_and_Z that the pronunciation seems to vary from word to word based on usage habits that are often unrelated to the spelling or even the etymology and in addition vary regionally and chronologically. What is especially surprising is that even Treccani does not always provide pronunciation help though it usually does. It would be interesting to ask them if, f.ex., the pronunciation is missing from http://www.treccani.it/vocabolario/avvezzo1 due to human error or because the variation in usage is extreme or some other reason. --Espoo (talk) 06:16, 12 August 2017 (UTC)