Talk:Italian language

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Comment[edit]

"Italian is descended from Latin. Unlike most other Romance languages, Italian retains Latin's contrast between short and long consonants. As in most Romance languages, stress is distinctive." Speling12345 (talk) 8:50, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Italian is a recognized[edit]

Italian is a recognized minority language in Israel. Speling12345 (talk) 8:52, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Expansion of infobox "nation=" entry[edit]

@93.32.169.124: referring to this edit and subsequent revert - aside from the fact that Slovenia and Croatia were already mentioned under "Minorities", so they didn't need to be added again, are you really sure it makes sense to add "organizations"? How many "organization" do you think may exist that adopt Italian as an official language? I'm pretty sure that infobox could get really long. Template:Infobox_language explicitly says that "nation" is for a "list of countries in which it is an official language", so if anything, one could argue that even some of the pre-existing entries were overkill. In addition, calling the places in Croatia and Slovenia where Italian is a minority language "dependencies" is WP:POV language, as those are first-class parts of those countries' territories. LjL (talk) 00:38, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Italian Language in "Countries and languages lists"[edit]

Wht does not exist a page to describe the Italian-Speaking countries, in the same way of German, English or Spanish? So it's possible to analize a complete situation of Italian language in the world, with the exact number of speakers. --Freebird73 (talk) 08:55, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

Make one, it's a wiki. (Although I'm not entirely sure Italian warrants a standalone article for that given it's hardly as widely-spoken as English or Spanish... the comparison seems very far-fetched!) LjL (talk) 16:54, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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23:00 (11:00 PM)[edit]

Is 11 o'clock night (notte) or evening (sera) in Italian language? The english is "11 o'clock at night" but the Italian translation is "le 11 di sera", literally "11 o'clock in the evening". Is the translation wrong, or the English is wrong? http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english-italian/11-o-clock-at-night 122.200.1.158 (talk) 03:57, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

Both are correct - two different languages. For example in Italian they say - "Io ho 25 anni" while in English they say - "I am 25 years old". Two completely different verbs are used to describe the same situation. Denisarona (talk) 04:47, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

dialects[edit]

i'm going to change the part about dialects. i will call dialects of italian all local idioms not spoken by linguistic minorities recognized by law 482/99. here i will answer to people who consider them languages and want them to be spoken exclusivelly and to be official. some of you might say:

"they are not varieties of italian. they are not intelligible with italian and unesco recognizes them as languages". so i answer: even all local idioms of france , germany , netherlands and belgium , swedish traditional local idioms , danish traditional local idioms , some kroat local idioms and chineese local idioms are not varieties of the respective national languages and in most cases unesco recognizes them as languages. but most of them are called dialects. even in wikipedia. for example while the page about italian dialects is called languagess of italy , the page about local idioms in germany not spoken by linguistic minorities (so not frisian , danish or sorabian) is called dialects of german. why this difference? german dialects are not varieties of german language and are not intelligible with standard german. and unesco recognizes them as languages.NOT dialects.

"they don't derive from standard italian". my answer: no primary dialect derives from a standard language. so this is nonsense.

" (standard)italian has spread only in recent times" .my answer: the same for example is true for french , german , dutch , danish , swedish , croatian , chineese. in france only 20% in 1880 spoke french. in denmark , i've read , standard danish has spread during 20 century.

"italian was imposed". my answer: in every country a standard language is "imposed" as a result of standardization. even in thoose countries where local idioms are not intellegible with the national language and are not varieties of it according to unesco.

i would like to remind other things.

1 standard italian was the official language of italian states well before unity. for example it had been the official language of kingdom of neaples since 1544 (due to girolamo seripando) and the official language of piedmont since 1561 (editto di rivoli).it replaced latin. tuscan based italian was also the language of culture. standard italian was freely choosen by pre unitarian states.it was choosen due to literary prestige thanks to dante , petrarca and boccaccio , called tree crowns. choosen by pre unitarian states , not imposed to them. so , it was choosen by italian dialects. only for linguistic minorities it was imposed , as they did not have independent states. for example friuli was governed by veneto and sardinia by piedmont. school was in italian. books were written in italian. but , few people went to school and few people could read. due to this there wasn't much influence from standard italian. in rome , where all children had attended school since 1500 standard italian has influenced roman dialect , wich was similar to neapolitan. so , if the obligation of education had been established before and if people had started reading before , now italian dialects (local idioms NOT spoken by linguistic minorities) would be more similar to standard italian.

2 all italian local idioms , exept thoose recognized by law 482/99 , belong to italoromance family and are closely related to italian. including gallo italic. it's false that gallo italic belongs to western romance. for example gallo italic has vowel plurals and not s plurals , galloitalic does not have s endings in verbs and in pronouns , instead it has vowel endings and sometimes a t in second singular person. gallo italic , like the rest of italoromance does NOT have latin consonantic bonds pl , cl , fl ... gallo italic has metaphonesis. recognized minority languages are either NON romance or are western romance. friulian , ladin , sardinian , catalan , french , arpitan , occitan have s plurals , s endings in verbs , s ending in pronouns and NO metaphonesis. recognized minority lsnguages also differ from sourrounding idioms/dialects. for example friulian , ladin , occitan , arpitan have "io" or similar , and not "mi" in order to say "i" , verb to have from latin habere starts with vowels... recognized minority languages also have similarities with other languages considered "worth of protection". while sourrounding idioms do not. for example in friulian verb to have has similarities with that of french... while in gallo italic it has not.

example of plurals: house/houses. in ladin cesa/ceses. in venetian casa/case. dog/dogs in friulian cjan/cjans in venetian can/cani.

3 about intellegibility i wouldn't say it is zero between standard italian and what i call dialects of italian or italian dialects. all of them are romance idioms. and in written form mutual intelligibility is quite high. consider also that in the last 150 years they have been influenced by standard italian.

and then i don't understand why german local idioms are called dialects of german even though they are different from german and italian local idioms are called languages of italy.

p.s i'm italian and i know what i've written. --151.49.93.242 (talk) 20:20, 19 August 2016 (UTC). i've made the change , as i've promised.--Pangaglia (talk) 20:02, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

@Pangaglia: Please have a look at Wikipedia's rules regarding edits like this. Your edits appear to be derived from your own expertise, opinions, and research, and editors are not allowed to insert things sourced this way. RunnyAmigatalk 20:06, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
no , it is NOT my own opinion. it's hostory and it's linguistics. i am the author of the paragraph about dialects in this talk page. why are german local idioms except thoose spoken by linguistic minorities called dialects of german language (inspite being recognized by unesco as languages) and italian local idioms are considered languages? why this distinction between german dialects and italian dialects? it is NOT a neutral point of view. read what i've written.--Pangaglia (talk) 20:12, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
@Pangaglia: Did your addition to the article come from a published source? RunnyAmigatalk 20:17, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
of course. for example italian law 482/99 , that recognizes only the languages i've listed. every linguist including ascoli , considered thoose idioms you call langages italian dialects. bernardino bondelli wrote the "essay on gallo italic dialects" not the "essay on gallo italic languages". the decision to recognize only thoose populations as linguistic minorities come from a work of a commission made up by the most important italian linguists , including tullio de mauro and gian battista pellegrini.--Pangaglia (talk) 20:43, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
@Pangaglia: So the concern is that the term "dialect" is offensive and "idiom" is not? I don't know if it's because of a language barrier or something else but I'm having a really difficult time understand what you want to change and why you want to change it. RunnyAmigatalk 21:00, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

you have not understood. i want to change the part about dialects. instead of calling all local idioms "languages" , i will call dialect all thoose you call "languages" except languages recognized by italian state , spoken by populations recognized by italy as linguistic minorities. i have already said why in this part called dialects , here in the discussion page.--Pangaglia (talk) 14:31, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

@Pangaglia: The prose you are trying to add has several issues in terms of usage and grammar and your posts here have the same problem. You have to make it plain to an English-speaking person what you're trying to say. I've read and re-read your addition to the article and I can barely understand it. I know this isn't a kind thing to say but I don't know how else to approach this. RunnyAmigatalk 19:19, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

what don't you understand? i want to change the part about dialects because it calls italian dialects "languages". i want to call italian dialects "italian dialects". only the languages recognized by italian state , spoken by populations recognized by italy as linguistic minorities , are languages. i want to call italian dialects what you call languages. except recognized minority languages.--Pangaglia (talk) 19:54, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

  • Pangaglia I reverted your most recent edit and left a message on the talk page. This is the third time this material or something similar has been inserted. I want you to know that you are crossing the line into vandalism because these are unacceptable per WP:MOS (see sentence structure or syntax), and WP:NOR - which is a content policy on Wikipedia. Also, you are in contradiction to WP:3RR for which you can be blocked. I am sure you don't want to start out on Wikipedia having your account blocked. Also. I know it is WP:OR because of this talk page discussion. Please do not add this content to this article again and please study Wikipedia's content policies and guidelines per WP:Policies ---- Steve Quinn (talk) 23:17, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

i will edit again the part about dialects. it is not vandalism. what you are doing is vandalism. you are cancelling my edits only because you don't agree with me without explaining me why. and you find excuses like syntax mistakes. if there are syntax mistakes , why should you cancel the edit? correcting the mistakes would be the right thing. i made an edit and i explained why i don't agree with your opinion. i explained why italian dialects are not languages. you have changed my edits and reverted them just because you don't agree. you have not told me why. you have not explained here why according to you they are languages. you have just reverted them without explanation. this is vandalism.--Pangaglia (talk) 13:45, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Rioplatense Spanish[edit]

The sentence, "This form of Spanish is known as Rioplatense Spanish", appears too late in the text. It should probably relate to Argentina but you have it after the part about Brazil (where they speak Portuguese). 66.241.130.86 (talk) 13:56, 24 November 2016 (UTC)