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Fresco's, etc

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Carptrash While inputting Illinois (my Homestate) the issue of "medium" came up. I entered one-Brookfield- in plaster relief. Then "fresco' came up, Bas-relief, Limestone relief, Plaster relief, etc. etc. My thoughts are that the list, as best as we can determine, should only be Murals...flat 2 dimensional murals. What do you think? ```Buster Seven Talk 09:04, 13 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I agree, no reliefs, but a "fresco" would still be okay because they are two diminutional. just painted (carpscience) on wet plaster. Carptrash (talk) 16:04, 13 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I think

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that we should remove redundant info such as the NRHP listing at the Arlington PO. Since it is all the same building, once is (?) enough. Carptrash (talk) 17:52, 13 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed.  Done ```Buster Seven Talk 18:20, 13 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

And then

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there are the references. Since most of the examples from a state come from one or two sources perhaps we should put those outside the table, after the state;'s name. Then if we discover others, reference them individually, at the mural title? Or doe that get weird? Carptrash (talk) 18:34, 13 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, Right now its not sure (to the viewer) if ALL the info for ALL the given States murals come from that source. If we put it outside the table...and then individually reference any "outliers"...it should be clearer. I'll follow your lead. ```Buster Seven Talk 19:12, 13 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I've added website sources to each state. Each of those cited references are individually-named, so you can easily cite to them. If you go there you will find a complete list. In those lists many of the individual works have their own pages (complete with photos) and in line references for them need to be added. The state lists show that we have missed a lot of works (in some states). 7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:05, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

My source

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for Chillicothe says the artist is Arthur H. LidoV rather than W. not sure which is right. Also, title might be Rail Roading...two words. I have a place 25 miles north of "Chilly" so my plan is to swing by, check out the info, and take a picture. 2015, most likely. ```Buster Seven Talk 19:36, 13 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

LidoV's middle name is "Herschel" and 'railroad" is one word so it seems to me that "railroading" would be too. Besides that being how it is in my source. And yes, "v", not "w". I am having serious eyesight issues and am making a lot of these errors. Nice catch. Carptrash (talk) 21:28, 13 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
No Prob. My source says two words but it can stay till I get a chance to visit the Chille Post Office after the New Year. Seassons greetinhs!!!, ```Buster Seven Talk 22:39, 13 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Just so we don't duplicate efforts

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My current method is to create a handwritten list of murals w/ information, in an State from the Living New Deal site, alphabetize, and begin entering. After some Christmas shopping my plan is to do, at least, about a dozen entries for Arkansas. No sense us both working on the same state. TRA! ```Buster Seven Talk 17:11, 14 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

And I am using American Art Annual 1941, a list that I photocopied back in the 1980s but managed to find and a variety of books. I can't format anything on my computer that will just cut and paste into wikipedia, so have been filling in to states that you seem to be done with. PLAN B, now going into effect, is to move to Wyoming and work the alphabet backwards. Another large task, should we decide to do it, is to put links to the list in all the artist and town articles, thus tying (?) our article into the whole about 500 times. This project is the definition of Job security. Carptrash (talk) 17:25, 14 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Great. So ill work from the top and we will meet in the middle somewhere. I'll prbobly (sic) jump to California next which should be verrrrrry long. ```Buster Seven Talk 17:39, 14 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Ive created an article for Paul Arlt, one of the muralist's. He was the first redlink at the top of the list....had to start somewhere! . Tell me what you think. Are stubs better and quicker.? I started it @ User:Buster7/Paul Arlt. I figured that way I would stay away from any "deletionist" that might be roaming the countryside. ```17:52, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

Either/Or

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Should we keep District of Columbia or Washington DC. I lean towards Washington. ```Buster Seven Talk 17:29, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Washington D.C. it is. Let's hope we don't find one in the District but not in Washington. Is there such a place? Much les a post office? 17:35, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
We seem to be okay. Georgetown (Washington, D.C.) is listed as being a part of DC. Carptrash (talk) 17:38, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
 Done ```Buster Seven Talk 17:42, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I hate to burst your bubble, but "District of Columbia" is the almost universally recognized term for the entity when included in a list of state-level jurisdictions:

Wow, as a data freak, I've got my reading cut out for me... 32.218.32.129 (talk) 21:37, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Feel free to revert back to District of Columbia. I imagine (can't know for sure but he seems like a pretty agreeable character) User Carptrash would have no problem with the change if that is the norm. But please be so kind as to also move the one mural that now resides at Washington DC. ```Buster Seven Talk 00:33, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, Buster, tell it like it is. Carptrash (talk) 00:35, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Disambiguation Tag

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Before I get to far down the line I wanted to check w/ you to see if my solution will work.

  • I'm going down the list checking all the blue tags
  • the ones that turn up on a disam page, I am adding (muralist) and turning it into a redtag
  • will this create more work, down the line, when the list is done and we begin to work on creating articles for the red-linked artist?
  • will the (muralist) tagged artists get lost in the shuffle and not turn blue when an article does get created?
  • Thoughts? ```Buster Seven Talk 18:16, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Go with (opinion) (artist) since many if not all of these painters are going to do more than just murals. Several are also sculptors. I have already dine a couple that way who showed up as blue links but (I always check them now) turned out to be an Austrialian cricketeer or something. Carptrash (talk) 23:33, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
 Done ```Buster Seven Talk 01:39, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
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I think this should work for all the murals.
{{PD-because|It was a work of art created by the US Govt. under the Federal Art Project}}
Carptrash (talk) 22:52, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I see you've started to add images...which is absolutely wonderful. You'll have to teach me how to do that sometime soon. Not now. I'm still in California. I've bought a VW bus and a cheap Kodak Instamatic camera. As soon as I find a post office I'll start to collect images in a Styrofoam cup I picked up on the beach. TRA!```Buster Seven Talk 07:35, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
the other license being used is

{{PD-USGov-WPA}}

which is technically not correct, but easier to explain, already there. if you wanted to create the FAP, you could incorporate the USC links. Duckduckstop (talk) 22:54, 12 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Poughkeepsie, New York mural

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The Gerald Foster mural titled July 26,1781, New York State Ratifies the United States Constitution in the Dutchess County Court House in Poughkeepsie. I'm not sure if it was painted in the Courthouse or in the post office. He painted 3 for the post office. The other two listed are verified. Its this one Im not sure of. ```Buster Seven Talk 07:00, 22 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

United States post office murals

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hi, nice list article, taken from the website http://www.wpamurals.com/
there are a bunch of blogs with pics such as
http://www.texasescapes.com/TexasArt/Texas-Post-Office-Murals.htm ;
http://www.indianahistory.org/our-services/local-history-services/traveling-exhibits/local-treasure-indianas-wpa-post-office-murals#.VLRNuU90y1s
http://livingnewdeal.org/tag/post-office-murals/
that you may well be able to grab pictures, since the 2D art is PD. Duckduckstop (talk) 22:45, 12 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I've added website sources to each state. Each of those cited references are individually-named, so you can easily cite to them. If you go there you will find a complete list. In those lists many of the individual works have their own pages (complete with photos) and in line references for them need to be added. The state lists show that we have missed a lot of works (in some states). 7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:05, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I just cut this out

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because it is listed in the sculpture section of The federal Art Project in Illinois.
| Brookfield | Means of Mail Transportation | | Edouard Chassaing | 1937 | plaster relief | |-Carptrash (talk) 16:41, 15 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

more cut out sculpture

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| Monroe | | | | | | |- | New Orleans | | | | | F. Edward Hebert Federal Building formerly the New Orleans Main Post Office building | |-

I don;'t know what the Monroe one is but I find no record of it Carptrash (talk) 18:58, 19 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Cool! Thanks for todays fill-ins. The Wall-to-Wall book I had was from the library. I have ordered my own at half.com for $1 + shipping. Buster Seven Talk 22:43, 19 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Carol Highsmith GSA project

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Parking this pic for now

but Carol M. Highsmith has declared many (most?) of her pix to be pd, and she seems to have had a project with the GSA (Fed government building supervisor - everything they do is pd).

@Buster7:, @Carptrash: - please have at it, it may take me a while to get back to this. Smallbones(smalltalk) 16:38, 3 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"PD" means in the Public Domain". No copyright. A good thing Carptrash (talk) 17:53, 3 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Carptrash (talk) 21:58, 3 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Changed Table of Contents

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Feel free to change it back, but the previous TOC was a long list down the right side of my computer - looked terrible and wasn't useful to me.

I just borrowed the current TOC from List of Presbyterian churches in the United States (don't ask) and don't know the ins and outs of it. But it you move the "Washington D.C." section to "District of Columbia" it should work almost perfectly. "Almost" because it doesn't put in "Further reading". Smallbones(smalltalk) 21:09, 3 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Gotta run, but it works perfectly now, except for the order of Washington D.C. See Template:TOC US states if you want to fix this, or just put that section under "District of Columbia". Smallbones(smalltalk) 21:34, 3 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Was bold and did it myself Smallbones(smalltalk) 04:20, 4 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
thanks, Smallbones. Looks great! Big improvement. Collaboration at its best!!. . Buster Seven Talk 05:34, 4 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Articles on NRHP-listed post offices

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I noticed when I came across the NRHP-listed post office with Forrest Hill's mural that the post office article was not linked here. Likewise for others. I put in links for 2 Montana ones, some Alabama and Arizona ones, and a bunch of Arkansas ones. This is by cross-checking contents here vs. state sub-categories of Category:Post office buildings on the National Register of Historic Places by state. There are lots of NRHP-listed post offices with murals, I am well aware, many started by me but many more developed by others. (Done alphabetically through Arkansas, for now.) I also recently made a point to stop to take a photo of one of the murals listed here, but I didn't get a good picture as the post office was crowded, pre-Christmas. --doncram 04:07, 31 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Rincon Annex, in South San Francisco

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The "Rincon Annex" within Rincon Center is a former post office building in South San Francisco that exists and is listed on the National Register, with one mural or 27 murals by Anton Refregier. This is different apparently from the South San Francisco item in this list-article. See Rincon Center#Murals and Anton Refregier#Rincon Center mural. Can someone add this, and/or fix if there an error in the existing South San Francisco row? --doncram 02:01, 3 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The Rincon Annex murals are singled out as works of serious artistic merit, as opposed to the majority of post office murals which are merely "competent" hackwork, in this California Post Offices NRHP MPS document (see page 16 of 44). --doncram 04:58, 3 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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1984 mural

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Delavan Post Office, in Delavan, Wisconsin, has a mural painted in 1984. The post office happens to be listed on the National Register of Historic Places. See: Charles W. Causier; Joseph G. Jurkiewicz (December 29, 1993). "National Register of Historic Places Registration: Delavan Post Office". National Park Service. Retrieved March 26, 2018. With seven photos, the 6th being of post office mural. This is outside the time range mentioned in this list-article's intro. But I think it should be included...could the intro to the article be changed to welcome more contemporary murals in similar style to the New Deal era murals? --Doncram (talk) 03:12, 27 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, who knows if there is a typo in the NRHP document; maybe it was painted in 1934? The artist is Rosemary Roth. --Doncram (talk) 03:14, 27 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
No, Rosemary Roth was an artist who lived from 1918 to 2006 ([1] so 1934 is too early; 1984 could have been at peak of her career in Delavan. --Doncram (talk) 03:17, 27 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

commons pic editing welcomed

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Pic which could be edited down

I am not much of a photographer, but was able to contribute a photo of mural at U.S. Post Office (Rifle, Colorado) today. Holding my camera high, the coverage of the mural was less distorted than if I pointed up to center on the mural. It is one in a small category of photos about that place now. It or alternatives in the category could be photo-shopped or whatever edited down to focus on just the mural, on Commons, if anyone would like to help with that, I would welcome that being done. Thank you to User:Buster7 and others who contribute here; I don't do much here but am happy to try to build up the coverage a bit as I edit National Register articles (and rarely contribute photos). Cheers, --Doncram (talk) 02:22, 31 July 2018 (UTC) P.S. On the "hackwork" scale, mentioned in discussion section above, this is near tops, IMHO. I know someone who painted a mural inside an outhouse that was as good or better, frankly. Although the guy was a Syracuse University art professor soon after. --Doncram (talk) 02:37, 31 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Ive tried to convince my wife that if I could stand on her shoulders I could get a much better shot. She disagrees and suggests stilts. Thanks for your improvements. ―Buster7 ☎ 03:23, 31 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Alice Flint's third mural

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According to the NRHP document for United States Post Office (Adel, Georgia) (Gretchen A. Brock; Gail Hughes (November 19, 2008). "National Register of Historic Places Registration: United States Post Office-Adel, Georgia". National Park Service. Retrieved May 15, 2019. With accompanying 34 photos (the last two showing mural)), the artist Alice Flint (currently a redlink) painted murals for post offices in Adel, GA (included in the list-article), Fairfield, CT (included), and Arabi, Louisiana (not included).

Most New Deal post office murals went into Art Deco or similar new post offices built in the 1930s. But perhaps this went into an old post office, one which no longer exists? Perhaps this was a post office which was located in Arabi, Louisiana's NRHP-listed Old Arabi Historic District (currently a redlink). The NRHP nomination document for the district mentions "... in 1906 a post office was located there. Arabi's few commercial buildings were located along the Mississippi, but they do not survive. According to tradition, the community's unusual name can be traced to a Sudanese figure named Arabi Pasha who led a group of insurrectionists in raids against the British in the Sudan and Egypt during the early 1880s. Most of the population of what was then called Stock Landing, being of French and Irish descent, regarded Pasha as a hero and named their post office in his honor." (emphasis added)

Maybe this was not a WPA-supported mural, just a separate local arrangement? But that doesn't make sense, unless Flint was from Arabi. --Doncram (talk) 21:24, 15 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Just got back from one trip and leaving on another in a few days. I'll investigate some more when I return mid June. Thanks for all you do to enlarge the scope of the list. ―Buster7 ☎ 01:13, 3 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oil on Canvas?

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I have seen (many times), touched, and photographed the Carl Morris murals in the Post Office in Downtown Eugene, Oregon. They are decidedly NOT "oil on canvas" as stated in the chart. They are painted directly on the plaster of the walls of the building, in some places directly over electrical conduit that was on the walls when the murals were painted. I have also seen the works in the Binghamton and Johnson City, New York Post Offices, and they also consist of paint applied directly to the plaster walls of the buildings.

Indeed, "mural" usually means artwork painted directly on a wall, ceiling or other permanent surface. This leads me to wonder how many of the other murals on this list which state "oil on canvas" in the notes may have notes which are in error? Few of these notes on materials have any citations, and none of those which say "oil on canvas" have citations.

I am removing the incorrect note from Morris's Eugene works; I strongly suggest that other murals in the list designated as "oil on canvas" be checked, and either citations supplied confirming the materials, or else the notes removed until further information becomes available.

70.89.176.249 (talk) 02:21, 2 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

At the opening of each state is a reference to the sourcing for that state. The reliable source for Oregon is [2]. The source then lists the Lane Community College as the location of the mural.[3] Later today I will give the Library a call to investigate.―Buster7 ☎ 10:03, 2 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Adding images?

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I found a source (Temple University's former Endangered Murals Project) of pics for a few of the murals that were painted over. That lead me to another source in the National Archives. Those photos are unrestricted/PD but are in a "File Unit" and cannot be individually referenced. What is best practice here? Should they be uploaded to Wikimedia Commons and then referenced here? Or is the current way I did it acceptable? It would be nice to be able to see them inline... --Da.mappr (talk) 21:03, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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