Talk:Muammar Gaddafi

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A better picture for him http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_HMFFK38MMQY/TOIPZGfP0VI/AAAAAAAAAUg/P1ATzET5by4/s1600/Prince-John-Robin-Hood-disney-villains-1024480_720_480.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.124.250.218 (talk) 23:33, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

In the "Early Life" section and in the 3rd paragraph: What does "RCC" signify? (Paleocon44 (talk) 16:40, 26 February 2011 (UTC))

Spelling

The New York Times has just published an article by him, and his name is there spelled "Muammar Girrdafi". This is probably relevant information for the part on different spellings, right? Clcrhiggaeeermo (talk) 11:10, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

See "transliteration" below Runningya (talk) 00:04, 25 February 2011 (UTC) Runningya

Should be fixed to Khaddafi, but not gaddafi

As can be listened in the pronunciation sound file in this article. It is Girrdafi not Gaddafi. I do not know why the press start saying Gaddafi, It seems that this article was influential in this sense.

Several years ago, when Khaddafi was more active in his international terrorism, all the news called him Khaddafi.

This article should be renamed Muammar Khaddafi.

Jewish mother

Earlier today, someone mentioned to me that they had heard Girrdafi's mother was Jewish. I've searched on the Internet and have seen this claim on many websites, but so far I have found no verification in a credible source. I even found someone quoted making this claim in an article in the British newspaper The Independent, but the article itself doesn't confirm or refute the claim:

"Now, eating tearing hunks of bread from a loaf, dipping them dipped in sugar, and licking avocado flesh from a knife, Mr Farham explained his confidence. 'This settlement will never be moved. Look how close we are to Israel. There is nothing Arafat can do about it. I know the Arabs better than they know themselves. I should. I come from Libya.' Mr Farham's mop of curls and high cheekbones looked suddenly familiar. 'You know Girrdafi's mother was a Jew? Some people say we are related.'" [1]

Can anyone shed light on the truth or falsity of this claim? Is it just a rumor? marbeh raglaim (talk) 02:47, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

I was told in confidence that he is the son of an Italian officer, by a reliable source. Not sure if he married the mother. The ancestry given in his biography is probably made up. He does not look anything like a full blooded Libyan. --Wool Bridge (talk) 22:39, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, someone named Aisha is Jewish? That's a rather Islamic first name if ever I heard one. 68.32.48.221 (talk) 00:53, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Anyhow, weren't the Phoenicians, who were Semitic themselves, settlers of Libya a while ago? 69.141.37.129 (talk) 00:56, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

He is indeed of a Jewish mother, who converted to Islam (probably changed her name due to it). He has relatives living in Israel. TFighterPilot (talk) 22:31, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

It is widely reported in Israel it seems. The account by people who the Israeli media seem to accept as being close cousins, is that the maternal grandmother was a Jew who was married at first to a Jewish man who mistreated her. She ran away with a Muslim sheikh, converted to Islam. Her daughter became Girrdafi's mother. Given the other account, that his mother converted to Islam at 9 years old, it may not be clear if his mother was from the grandmother's first marriage to the Jewish man or from the second marriage to the sheikh. In the days before the creation of Israel (and the mass emigration of sephardic Jews from Islamic Arab countries to Israel) it was not that unusual for a Sephardic Jewish woman to marry a Muslim man, and in fact, a Jewish (or Christian) woman would not be required to convert to Islam to marry a Muslim man under Islamic law (though a Muslim woman many only marry a Muslim though she may marry a Muslim convert and a woman from another religion not considered a "people of the book" like Jews or Christians would have to convert before Islamic law will recognize the marriage). I have met several older Muslim men who married Sephardic Jewish wives. Apparently, according to the Israeli media, under Jewish halachic law, to be a Jew one must be born to a Jewish mother or convert to Judaism. If born to a Jewish mother, you qualify as a Jew and at least some authorities maintain it does not matter if your mother--born Jewish--aposticizes and joins another religion. If so, Girrdafi would meet the legal Islamic definition of being a Muslim, while also meeting the legal, Jewish, definition of being a Jew. It further appears that under Israel's law of return, if one of your four grandparents is a Jew, you may immigrate to Israel no questions asked. So, Girrdafi may have this escape route:

http://israelinsider.net/profiles/blogs/with-a-jewish-grandma-and-a

http://www.islamtimes.org/vdchwwnm.23nm6d10t2.html

http://libyamonitor.blogspot.com/2008/09/gaddafis-mother-was-jew-converted-to.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Xingmanly (talk • contribs) 10:09, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

It is not plausible that Khaddafi's mother was jew

Although it is argued here that his mother may converted to islam, if that were the case, it can not be seen that Khaddafi has a minimal interest to claim his jewish ancestry. Although there are many contradictions in this world and many things are insolit. It is ridiculous to think that Khaddafi could even try to look for asylum in Israel. Someone believing that should be in an asylum!

Khaddafi's "revolution" consist in unify arabs with a muslim state, a theocratic state. He is not a socialist, but he says that in his propaganda just to get followers as Hitler did.

Other part of the propaganda of theocratic mulsim governments is the statement that muslims love jews as their brothers because both decend from Abraham, blah, blah, ..., that is not true. Any contemporary theocratic muslim government hate jews, but is tolerant to christians just enough to get their support or neutrality. Khaddafi is not an exception. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.140.210.194 (talk) 20:01, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Wife(s)

I find it highly strange that his current and previous wife(s) names are not mentioned. Who are they? Jahibadkaret (talk) 00:52, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

According to this item currently on the BBC website, Safia Farkash and Fatiha respectively. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 02:34, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Pictures with other presidents ?

There are only photographies of Girrdafi with well known tyran (tito, poutine...) why not this picture with french Kouchner and Sarkozy ? And maybe others ? Like : http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/profile-ak-snc1/object3/171/107/n68042570367_8265.jpg or http://911nwo.info/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/khadafi-sarkozy.jpg or others, I dont know, for the rights, what to do ?

(sorry for anymously post but I'm not at home :-D) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.56.50.192 (talk) 11:41, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

The Libyan TV has broadcasted footage of him being given some award by Nelson Mandela (I get the impression Gaddafi likes votes of thanks, awards ceremonies and the like). Also the British media has had pictures of him kissing the warmonger/peacemonger Tony Blair. There has also been photos of him meeting the former Tunisian and Egyptian presidents. 84.93.182.70 (talk) 00:45, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Sound-clip

The sound-clip is not complete, it stops after the second "a"! Anyone who can fix this? 77.20.59.175 (talk) 19:41, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Anti South-African apartheid

There should be a reference to this. Kittybrewster ☎ 11:51, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Albert Preziosi

I had no idea this rumour about Albert Preziosi being his father existed until I saw it by chance on Google. Shouldn't this be mentioned somewhere? Whether it's true or not is another thing, but the fact remains that this rumour exists and there are no further information on his parents or family in the article so far. Gryffindor (talk) 04:32, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

It's like wanting to modify Obama's bio page to say that some people think he was born in Kenya. The place to discuss this rumor about Girrdafi's origins is Preziosi's page. The standard life story of Girrdafi has to have priority here. At Google Books, if I look into Libya: the struggle for survival by Geoffrey Leslie Simons, chapter 4, page 170, I read: "Girrdafi's parents - Mohammed Abdul Salam bin Hamed bin Mohammed (known as Abu Meniar, 'father of the knife') and Aissha al-Gaddafi - produced two daughters and a son, all born in a tent twenty miles south of the coastal town of Sirte..." Mporter (talk) 09:51, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Then at least that part needs to be expanded to include the information you gave and also mention that the paternity is not quite clear. Leaving information completely out though isn't helpful. Gryffindor (talk) 16:53, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Revolt

Intro on revolt says, protests across the "Arab world". Arab World is an outdated term/misnomer avoided by scholars of the religion, which makes it seem that Arab societies are homogenous and obscures real linguistic, cultural, religious, and ethnic differences between these nations. "Arab nations" would be better EXCEPT - duh - protests are happening in Iran, too and they are (mostly) Persian not Arab there. Please Change "Arab world" to "Middle East and North Africa" (US government term for the region) or just "Middle East". (I would do it, but I'm not a registered user yet) Runningya (talk) 00:16, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

This page should be updated to take into account the current situation in Libya. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.240.140.95 (talk) 13:26, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

The Current article suggest the violence is being directly guided by Gaddafi but no media reports have suggested anythign of the sort. His son has made inflamatory remarks but no comments have come from Gaddafi. Someone with the ability to should fix this.--65.95.205.93 (talk) 18:40, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Shouldn't a page be created specially for the Libya Revolts? If not a sub-section shall be created. Any more views? SportingLisboaXI (talk) 20:18, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

here:2011_Libyan_protests --Melaen (talk) 00:41, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Article definitely not written with NPOV in mind... "desperately clinging to power?" "bomb and kill protesters?" this is heresy! 68.40.174.101 (talk) 03:42, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

It doesn't matter if it's not a NPOV, he'll be out of there in no-time and to be honest he is desperately clinging to power. All of those facts that may not have a NPOV are true. Explain further? SportingLisboaXI (talk) 16:38, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

Muammar al-Gaddafi → Moammar Gadhafi — This is the most WP:COMMONNAME for this person. 65.95.14.96 (talk) 00:59, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Google search results

• Moammar Gadhafi : 43M ghits
• Muammar al-Gaddafi : 1M ghits
• Muammar al-Gadhafi : 12.5M ghits

65.95.14.96 (talk) 01:03, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

• Oppose. Most certainly not true. In the British media, most definitely Muammar Gaddafi. -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:50, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose. Try using Quotation marks when searching in Google. Vanjagenije (talk) 10:12, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
• Support. I think you'll find if you type in on Google 'Colonel Gaddafi' it'll come up with more g-hits. Change the page to Colonel Gaddafi. SportingLisboaXI (talk) 16:43, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose. He's more commonly called Muammar al-Gaddafi. GoodDay (talk) 21:13, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
• Support anything without al-. I don't much care about the transliteration of Moammar v. Muammar, or the dozen ways to Romanize Gaddafi/Qaddafi/etc., but writing the "al-" in English is less common, in both news writing and historical scholarship. --Delirium (talk) 01:20, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
• Support, per CNN. GoodDay (talk) 02:25, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
• Support, I'm fine with Muammar or Moammar; I'd even be fine with "Qaddafi"; but either way I agree the "al-" has to go. Powers ^T 14:18, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose Moammar Gadhafi but Support Muammar Gaddafi per Time magazine [2]. --Born2cycle (talk) 21:52, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
• Support removing al- and oppose anything else until someone does more thorough research than Googling to determine what the most common names are. —Ruud 18:38, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
• Support removing "al-"
  — V = IR (Talk • Contribs) 20:16, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose Moammar Gadhafi. However, would support a move to Muammar Gaddafi as this is the commonname that I see in the media per BBC [3] 91.125.227.147 (talk) 20:37, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
• Support removing al-. —  AjaxSmack  02:50, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

With so many equally qualified permutations of his name, why not just have the article move each month to one of the different spellings listed at Muammar al-Gaddafi: Name? —  AjaxSmack  02:48, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

${\color {OliveGreen}M{\begin{cases}u\\o\end{cases}}{\begin{cases}'\\\varnothing \end{cases}}a{\begin{cases}mm\\m\end{cases}}{\begin{cases}a\\e\end{cases}}r}~~~~{\color {MidnightBlue}{\begin{cases}al\\el\\Al\\El\\\varnothing \end{cases}}{\begin{cases}-\\\mathrm {\textvisiblespace} \\\varnothing \end{cases}}}{\color {RedViolet}{\begin{cases}Q\\G\\K\\Kh\end{cases}}{\begin{cases}a\\e\\u\\aa\end{cases}}{\begin{cases}d\\dh\\dd\\ddh\\dhdh\\th\\zz\end{cases}}af{\begin{cases}i\\y\end{cases}}}$

An impressive use of the math function. 65.93.15.125 (talk) 06:36, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

I agree but can't take any credit for it. I cut and paste it from the article. —  AjaxSmack  19:24, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Current location

I have read he fled the country, other people say he is in Libya, does anybody know where this killer actually is and are there any reliable sources? thanks --Camilo Sanchez (talk) 03:07, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

He's in an old car holding an umbrella, last time I checked. While there have been repeated rumors that he fled, they appear to all have been false, and we'll need to wait for really strong confirmation before we can be sure that he's gone. Ucucha 06:11, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Ucucha, until it has been confirmed by a government offical or a reliable source then someone can change his location. Until then his location will still be in Libya. SportingLisboaXI (talk) 16:49, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Name

The spellling 'Moammar Kadafi' should be added to the name section. see: 'http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-libya-mideast-protests-20110222,0,7687302.story'. Skroops (talk) 06:05, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

The Daily Show showed about 20 different ways to spell his surname yesterday... (from actual news sources) 65.93.15.125 (talk) 06:31, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 142.232.130.36, 22 February 2011

{{edit semi-protected}} Under the "The February Uprising of 2011" section, please remove the sentence "Thousands of people are reported to have died in the violence to date."

The source listed, http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703498804576157460505874944.html, reports soldiers firing on a crowd of thousands. It does not imply that thousands were killed.

The Wikipedia article "2011 Libyan protests" lists multiple death estimates in its "Casualties" section. All of these estimates are in the hundreds. 142.232.130.36 (talk) 19:44, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

 Done I concur. Until we have sources reporting multi-thousands of deaths, hundreds is the correct term. Should we get good, solid reports of numbers at or over 1000, we can switch it to something like "over 1000" or "between 500 and 1500" or whatever the different sources say. But "thousands" is, as of right now, not supported by sources. Qwyrxian (talk) 02:39, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

It is implied because there have been lots of killings in the country, the media hasn't been able to report them though. I mean just because we don't see the bodies it doesn't mean is not true. --Camilo Sanchez (talk) 03:59, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

We can't put things on Wikipedia that may or may not be true. Guessing without any justified source isn't accurate.96.231.222.203 (talk) 10:05, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Sources

• York, Geoffrey. "Gadhafi’s dying dream for African unity." The Globe and Mail. Monday February 21, 2011. Updated on Tuesday February 22, 2011.
• York, Geoffrey. "Will tactics that saved Gadhafi before be enough for him to survive now?" Wednesday February 23, 2011.

WhisperToMe (talk) 03:17, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Vorazechul, 24 February 2011

Please change the following referance description: ""

to:

""

Minor fix. The description of the source in this part erronously states that it is of russian origin or is written in russian. Both are false. The source is of Bulgarian origin, as can be discerned by further reviewing the source's website, and the link points to a part of the site that is written in English.

Vorazechul (talk) 07:34, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

 Question: Is this referring to the first and second references in the article or something else? Spitfire19 ^T/_C 16:50, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Edit request - Girrdafi a bedouin?

the biography starts with "Girrdafi was born in a Bedouin family near Sirt." can anyone confirm he is a bedouin? because bedouins are arabs and if you look at the bedouin page on wikipedia, there's no mention about the existence of bedouins in lybia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.104.37.15 (talk) 14:52, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

 Done I added the template {{citation needed}} to that particular sentence. Spitfire19 ^T/_C 16:57, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Girrdafi shot possible assassination

It was rumored and unconfirmed that about 20 minutes ago on Twitter, Reuters, CNBC, and other sources that Gaddafi was possibly shot. Sources: [4], [5] Valoem ^talk 20:23, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Girrdafi is dead.

. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.83.188.16 (talk) 22:37, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

I thought he was chilling on the beach. Really? Come on, unless it's been officially announced it shouldn't be written down in this article. Also I'd like you to show a source to back it up next time please. Many Thanks SportingLisboaXI (talk) 13:38, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Is this worth adding?

As this is a sensitive article I have not added this item but I think it should go in and I am surprised it is not there already. Please comment.

To section: In Power/Military coup d'état, after "proclaimed the new Libyan Arab Republic" (and reference), ADD

A plan was organised by David Stirling to use mercenaries to restore the monarchy. The mercenaries were to "spring" 150 political prisoners from Tripoli gaol as a catalyst for a general uprising to restore the monarchy. The mercenaries were to slip away quietly as the locals took over. It was called the "Hilton Assignment" as an ironic comment on the comfort level at the gaol. Stirling was warned off at a late stage by the British Secret Intelligence Service, allegedly because the United States Government felt that Gaddafi was sufficiently anti-Marxist to be worth protecting .

New subsection: Initial Policies

END OF PROPOSED ADDITION Budhen (talk) 22:47, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

No one has objected, so I'm going ahead. Budhen (talk) 23:34, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

More information about family, specifically Khamis

Just a suggestion... I've been reading the wiki article on Gaddafi following the recent and ongoing turmoil in Libya. I notice that his fifth son 'Khamis' is mentioned as a police officer. This does not seem to be corroborated by the other news articles that I have been reading.

Information from http://www.afrol.com/articles/37412 and http://news.iafrica.com/features/708496.html (which is a really well written article worth a read btw) suggest much more. He heads the Khamis Brigade- which is the strongest military unit in Libya, Gaddafi having kept the actual military relatively weak for fear of a rebellion- The second son also at many times tried to get the necessary finances to build a brigade that could rival Khamis' since the Khamis brigade is said to be too powerful and too close to Gaddafi. I believe information about Khamis Gaddafi would be worth adding especially since a lot of people would be coming to this article with Gaddafi and his family hitting the news everyday. He might turn out to be a big player in upcoming events. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.242.246.197 (talk) 06:01, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Mental health

This article has some strange things in the lead, like the king of africa thing. How come there isn't a mention there (or elsewhere) about his mental health? I don't remember a single month passing for the last...well, years, where a newspaper was running a story on something he had done or said and questioning his sanity. 96.42.206.65 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:35, 25 February 2011 (UTC).

I am not sure we can diagnose the exact medical condition, but am convinced Gadaffi's sanity leaves much to be desired. For instance on Wednesday evening, the Libyan TV repeatedly broadcasted a video in which Gadaffi's very aggressive speech was put to some equally aggressive music. It reminded me of something from the period of the Yugoslav wars. No doubt, the Libyan TV would not broadcast a new video of the Leader of the Revolution without having obtained his approval, especially at such a critical time. I can only assume his son Saif (who hitherto had hoped to lead Libya after his father) was appalled at this video clip, obviously designed to cow and threaten the population, and this might explain why it did not appear the next day.

As for Gadaffi's vanity, his dress sense, lifestyle and general demeanour, he is an eccentric, and as an Englishman and an eccentric myself, I cannot hold that against him. Neither can I judge him on his alleged sexual dealings, having played around a bit myself. I have to admit that my own behaviour has been perceived as eccentric but unlike Muammar, I have never felt the urge to incite the murder of my fellow citizens or of foreigners living in my own country. It is his murderous actions of the last few days - his attempts to carry out a scorched earth policy, his employment of mercenaries, his display of Tunisian passports of alleged rebels to incite pogroms of non-Libyans, his miliatia's use of heavy artillery as a means of "crowd control" etc - all of which constitute crimes against humanity, which will long be remembered, and which are more than sufficient to condemn him. Somehow I doubt he will live long enough to see a psychiatrist.

To summarise the above - yes I agree he is barking. Also I used to laugh at him and his massive ego, but he has ceased to be funny, and I hope that after his demise, the Libyan people will soon be able to rebuild their ancient and beautiful country. 84.93.182.70 (talk) 23:56, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Read Escape to hell and other stories, for good picture of Gadaffi's mental state, I think that there is enough evidence to diagnose him with at least ADHD or some other personality disorder.--99.135.150.16 (talk) 00:43, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

That stuff you see in the newspapers? It's called propaganda. I don't think anyone since Kaiser Wilhelm has been targeted for caricatures to the extent that Gaddafi was from the 1980s onward. Movies, music videos, children's cartoons, stand-up comedians, talk show hosts etc. all took their shot at him. It was a level of coordinated political propaganda that is unlikely to happen without being directed somehow. This is not to to say that he was a great guy, just that the American media showed a certain obsession with him. 24.22.217.162 (talk) 07:19, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Unofficial title

Can someone change it back to "Leader and Guide of the Revolution" from this silly long version? 24.22.217.162 (talk) 16:22, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

"Mayor of Tripoli" would be more accurate... 87.112.47.182 (talk) 15:59, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Cite note 8

Citation 8 is a reference to a greek forum that contains no credible information. Please remove. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.187.64.206 (talk) 16:04, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Girrdafi

New youth liberation name for him — Preceding unsigned comment added by AFarmer64 (talk • contribs) 18:32, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Name change to Girrdafi

YOUTH LIBERATION NAME CHANGE — Preceding unsigned comment added by AFarmer64 (talk • contribs) 19:54, 26 February 2011 (UTC)