Talk:Norfolk

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Former good article Norfolk was one of the Geography and places good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
Date Process Result
February 5, 2006 Good article nominee Listed
October 8, 2007 Good article reassessment Delisted
Current status: Delisted good article

Ethnicity[edit]

Skin colour is not an ethnic group. I've removed the reference to 'white' as the number of Polish, Latvian and Lithuanian people has risen since 2001 census, there is also no reference to the percentage the previous writer had quoted. "The County has received significant international migration from the EU, originally from Portugal and more recently from Poland, Lithuania and Latvia. There is in addition a largely unquantifiable element of international migration attributable to short-term migrants, here primarily to seek work and highly mobile, but unlikely to be counted as part of the resident population." http://www.norfolkinsight.org.uk/jsna/population#themes — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.0.254.204 (talk) 16:38, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Nortfolk, England v Norfolk[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

I think the number of links pointing at Norfolk that mean Norfolk, England, suggest that Norfolk should be is the natural home for this page, and that what is currently at Norfolk should be moved to Norfolk (disambiguation) Mintguy (T) 10:54, 27 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I nearly did it but I changed my mind due to Norfolk, Virginia having quite a large population - 234,403. Morwen 11:27, Feb 27, 2004 (UTC)
Right - done - based solely on the vast number of links as you point out. Morwen 23:13, Feb 28, 2004 (UTC)

The above discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Key on map[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

The key to the Map of Districts has been changed at some point - not sure when or by whom. It should run from 1 to 7. I'll attempt to correct it - if I can't, I'll leave it to Morwen. Agendum 23:30, 20 May 2004 (UTC)

Looks like this has been done too. Rob 18:39, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

The above discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Categorise Lists?[edit]

I'd like to categorise List of places in Norfolk into populated places, geographical features, ports, airfields, historical sites, forests, open areas of water, rivers, tourist attractions etc - do people think that this would help? Rob 18:39, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Norfolk, USA?[edit]

I'm relatively new to Wikipedia, though I know enough to know that any humble American who suggests something inclusive of America runs the risk of being accused of cultural imperialism. (Not by the majority, mind you, but by a certain element.) So please don't bite me for this suggestion; I mean it with the purest of intentions. Norfolk, Virginia has a population of about 250,000 and most Americans (all ~300 million of us) think of it when we hear the word "Norfolk". Yes, yes, "America is not the world", but isn't a disambiguation page the most inclusive thing to do? It seems that that was the status quo until about a year ago when there was near-unilateral action to move Norfolk, England to Norfolk (see Talk:Norfolk) and no one has undone it. About 1000-1500 links each point to both Norfolk and Norfolk, Virginia, and I guarantee you many of those "Norfolk" links are intended for Norfolk, Virginia as placed by misinformed countrymen of mine. What are your thoughts? Raggaga 02:34, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Interesting thought. Norfolk, UK is the first Norfolk and that which lends it's name to all the other Norfolk's that there are scattered round the globe so I guess that it has some precidence to be where the link points to, also Norfolk UK is considerably larger in terms of geographical area and population than Norfolk, VA. I think that I would vote to leave the links as they are but add a little bit more on the disambiguation at the start, as for the mis directed links we should fix them. I'll do 200 or so if you will, don't know if this is something that a bot can help with, i.e. if it could do some of this work - I will try to research it. Rob 13:54, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
I've been through and verified that all the links that point to Norfolk are genuine Norfolk England pages pointing the others where they should go. The list that I worked through is at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:RobertWalden/Norfolk_UK_Linkers I need to check for new arrivals sometime but other than that it's done, I did not bother to check users pages, thought that it would be too difficult. Rob 08:37, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Great Yarmouth District Council[edit]

Great Yarmouth District Council is not controlled by the Lib Dems, it is Conservative. Also Norwich City Council is no longer Labour but Lib Dem. The map is therefore quite wrong. Also along with a newly coloured in map for the district councils it would also be good to have one with parliamentary constituencies coloured in as a correctly coloured in district council map would show no Labour representation. However, Labour have 3 Norfolk MPs which is a significant number.

The red isn't intended to indicate political control, just to show the location of the county. Barnabypage 08:04, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Delia Smith[edit]

She wasn't born in Norfolk and doesn't, I believe, live there so should she really count as a Person of Norfolk? Barnabypage 16:47, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

her association with NCFC is what gets her there, although she may live over the border, perhaps the section could do with retitling. GraemeLeggett 19:26, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
I've made a new section for people who are associated with Norfolk but are not actually from the county themselves (well as far as I know anyway).
Good idea. I wonder how (if at all) we should handle the various royals closely associated with Sandringham? Barnabypage 19:55, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Delia Smith was born in Surrey, raised in Kent.

and lives in Suffolk...GraemeLeggett 09:36, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

External links[edit]

There seem to be a lot of links to sites that may well be linkspam. Perhaps they ought to be cleared out.--A bit iffy 12:57, 26 January 2007 (UTC) I agree that there is loads of spam and I have seen this list increase over recent months. Only credible site or sites with sufficient useful content IMO should avoid the broom :)195.137.98.70 17:03, 14 February 2007 (UTC) I agree too. Rob 17:25, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

GA on hold[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Ralph Vaughan Williams[edit]

i believe that Norfolk Rhapsody No1 should be mentioned somewhere in this article considering the fact that Williams supposedly found inspiration to write the song while cycling around these norfolk villages. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.161.110.131 (talk) 22:10, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

This article has been reviewed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force in an effort to ensure all listed Good articles continue to meet the Good article criteria. In reviewing the article, I have found there are some issues that may need to be addressed.

  • Image:Arms-norfolk.jpg needs a fair use rationale.
  • Main articles shouldn't contain long lists. I recommend copying the People of Norfolk section to List of people from Norfolk, and then creating a section in this article consisting of prose about Norfolk's most notable residents. Each resident will need an inline citation.
  • The education section need citations throughout.
  • References should state the author, publisher, publishing date and access date if known.
  • Please provide citations for these statements:
    • "Rural parts of the county, notably the area around Burnham Market, are also popular locations for city dwellers to purchase weekend homes."
    • "By the 5th century the Angles, for whom East Anglia and England itself are named, had established control of the region and later became the "north folk" and the "south folk", hence, "Norfolk" and "Suffolk"."
    • "Migration into East Anglia must have been high, as by the time of the Conquest and Domesday Book survey, it was one of the most densely populated parts of the British Isles."
    • "During the English Civil War Norfolk was largely Parliamentarian. The economy and agriculture of the region declined somewhat, and during the industrial revolution Norfolk developed little industry and was a late addition to the railway network."
    • "The first development in airfields came with the First World War; there was then a massive expansion during the Second World War with the growth of the Royal Air Force and the influx of the American USAAF 8th Air Force which operated from many Norfolk airfields."
    • "The Norfolk Dialect also known as "Broad Norfolk" is the accent/dialect of people living in Norfolk, although over the modern age, a lot of the vocabulary and phrases have died out due to a number of factors such as radio, TV and people from other parts of the country coming to Norfolk."
    • "the traditional nickname for people from Norfolk is 'Norfolk Dumpling' or 'Norfolk Pudden'"
    • "More cutting, perhaps, was the formerly-used pejorative medical term "Normal for Norfolk", now discredited, the use of which is banned by the profession."

I will check back in no less than seven days. If progress is being made and issues are addressed, the article will remain listed as a Good article. Otherwise, it may be delisted (such a decision may be challenged through WP:GA/R). If improved after it has been delisted, it may be nominated at WP:GAC. Feel free to drop a message on my talk page if you have any questions. Regards, Epbr123 12:19, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

As no improvements have been made in the past two weeks, I'm afraid I've had to delist the article. Epbr123 16:56, 8 October 2007 (UTC)


The above discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Education[edit]

Hello.Could someone enlighten me and let me know where the Norfolk Academy is?Northmetpit 16:24, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

In the Education section I really don't think that there should be a breakdown of GCSE results by school and district, therefore I have removed this, twice. If this was to be included then A level results would also have to be noted, and perhaps results from UEA as well.Dancarney 18:34, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Agribusiness[edit]

There's a "weasel words" statement at the end of the paragraph of agriculture. I've tagged it as "verification needed". I'll delete it in a couple of days if the author can't provide a citation to support that statement. OldSpot61 (talk) 09:41, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

I've now removed the sentence about agribusiness. If its author wishes to restore it, please support it by citing a reference. I feel that sentence was NPOV, in any case, and the role of agribusiness should be described in a more balanced way. OldSpot61 (talk) 09:35, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Requested move - 2009[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

To keep the discussion central, please discuss the potential move of this article at Talk:Norfolk (disambiguation)#Requested_move. Oren0 (talk) 09:05, 15 January 2009 (UTC)


The above discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

People associated with Norfolk[edit]

I deleted Richard Pratt from the section on People Associated with Norfolk. The link pointed to a disambiguation page for 3 Richard Pratts, none of whom fitted the description of the one on the Norfolk page. I found very little about this Richard Pratt elsewhere on the net. If he's really "notable", please restore him and create a page about him. OldSpot61 (talk) 10:33, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Project proposal[edit]

A new project Wikiproject Norfolk & Suffolk has been proposed. If interested please visit Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Proposals#Wikiproject_Norfolk_.26_Suffolk and show your support. Thank you. MortimerCat (talk) 08:31, 14 February 2009 (UTC)


I have proposed the Wikiproject Norfolk and Suffolk add support here
Here is a link for people to add themselves to the list of interested parties interested editor and I include a link here for those interested in keeping up-to-date on the proposals so far Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_England#WikiProjects for Counties
I do not have any support yet, but have three comments to make it into the project "East Anglia". I have explained my reasoning on the proposals page, mainly as there is already discussion underway on creating a project for each county from Project England.
Thanks--Chaosdruid (talk) 17:28, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
I have added a discussion page to discuss the project scope here
--Chaosdruid (talk) 03:33, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

New image[edit]

A detailed map of Norfolk during the 17th century by Wenceslas Hollar

I added the image File:Wenceslas Hollar - Norfolk (State 4).jpg that I recently uploaded to History of Norfolk - you may also want it in the main article, up to you. :-) Dcoetzee 06:50, 15 March 2009 (UTC)


Question[edit]

There's no reference for the statement that Boudicca was born near Norwich. The statement appears to be referring to the settlement at Venta Icinorum, which wasn't founded until after her death. My understanding is that she was born in Suffolk? Harasseddad (talk) 12:51, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Huge off shore mound Terrington St Clement[edit]

Anyone got any idea what this is ?? [1] (no, I know that bits a ship lol)

I have searched some old maps and aerial photos, but so much land has been reclaimedover the past 150 years...in the aerial photos from 1946 the fields adjacent to the sea are now two fields inland and so many maps and photos stop a couple of hundred yards short of the feature

It is a 600 foot diameter volcano mound

52°50'31.20"N LAT 0°14'36.04"E LONG

Chaosdruid (talk) 13:29, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Answer found

Chaosdruid (talk) 22:58, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Removal of "prose" tag[edit]

Hi

I removed the prose tag from the section "Notable people". That section is a list and as such would not normally be written in prose style

Chaosdruid (talk) 06:54, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Peter Bellamy and notable people from Norfolk[edit]

I've changed the Bellamy entry so that he was brought up in North Norfolk and not born there as well. This is because his main Wikipedia entry states he was born in Bournemouth. I thought he was b. Wighton, Norfolk. Does anyone know the fact of this or how/where to verify?

I've also just noticed that the list is in alphabetical sequence by first name, which is somewhat unusual, as normally these are by surname. Does anyone have a view about changing the order? "People associated with Norfolk" is ordered by surname!

Roaringboy 09:48, 19 August 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Roaringboy (talkcontribs)

To be honest I think you are doing a pretty good job with your edits and I wouldnt ask for permission for things such as that. I have watched you working on the Norfolk related articles for some time (Its about 18 months I think) and would fully support almost everything you have done so far :¬)
Peter Bellamy is another matter, I know little about him ! lol
I must admit that after doing a very quick search (as I have family over and only have 10 mins to check e-mails etc) through the news items and obits all I found was this, which is not really going to help, New York TImes says born in Norwich. I would point out though that there are no cites or references in most of that Wikiarticle I suggest, if you have the time, that you give it a little sprucing up - the BBC website quotes the wikipage as the main link for their info on him ! [2]
Chaosdruid (talk) 17:59, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for that. Regarding Bellamy, I've had a look at many of the same sources as you; most of which cite the Wikipedia article. There are some other methods like the birth records to go to, but in the meantime I have sent a message to A. Heather Wood, the sole survivor of the Young Generation, asking whether she can provide any information. I think I will reorder the list by alpha surname, as it will then follow the conventions used in other articles.

Roaringboy (talk) 07:08, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Notable People for Norfolk now re-ordered by alpha surname. It really needs to be cross-referenced to other Norfolk entries, as it's not a lot of use if notables appear elsewhere but not in the County entry. I will have a look at doing this. Roaringboy 12:23, 9 September 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Roaringboy (talkcontribs)


Consensus to keep or delete Hamond Felton, medieval notable figure from article[edit]

Hamond Felton was M.P. for Norfolk in 1377 and died in 1379. He and his family are a part of the History of Norfolk going back to Medieval times. The reference is a DNB reference, acceptable on many articles. His family goes back to the Conqueror, his ancestor was related to the Black Prince through marriage, fought in Crecy and Poitiers. Most importantly, Hamond Felton held an important position in Norfolk He was taken out of this article with not so much as a mention as to why. Since no one editor WP:OWNS the article, I would ask that other editors vote their opinion here. I will, of course, comply with majority. Thanks.

Consensus for keeping or deleting Hamond Felton in History of Norfolk article:

  • Keep He is a historical figure of some significance since he was an M.P. and had some significant authority and came from a notable medieval Norfolk family. If a dog can be "notable" in Norfolk history, so can Hamond Felton.Mugginsx (talk) 15:52, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
  • Remove I do not see how one can adduce that he was an "historical figure of some significance". If I read it right, the DNB reference is of 3 lines stating that Hamond, elder brother of Sir Thomas Felton, was MP for Norfolk for 2 years. In practical terms, this bare mention of one Norfolk MP sets no context. There are many other Norfolk MPs over centuries, along with many notable Norfolk families, equally well-connected and tried in battle; but we would end up with enormous lists if even some were to be included.

If it can be shown that Felton is of sufficient note or importance, then perhaps his entry should be in the "Notable People" section rather than being baldly dropped as a named reference into a paragraph which is of more general content. Roaringboy 08:17, 14 October 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Roaringboy (talkcontribs)

  • Remove Agree with Roaringboy. The text seemed out of place (Northmetpit (talk) 11:10, 14 October 2011 (UTC)).

'Took it out myself'. Will look for more information on him for possible Notable People Section. Mugginsx (talk) 15:25, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

'Sound decision'. If you discover more information, he, or the Felton family as a whole, might be worthy of a separate Wiki entry, linked to Norfolk, of course, and possibly many other relevant articles. Good hunting. Roaringboy (talk) 16:09, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Norfolk history[edit]

I would just like to question the sentence,

'The economy was in decline by the time of the Black Death, which dramatically reduced the population in 1349; suffice to say that the current population has yet to equal the population before that time.'

from the History section of the article.

Whilst I do not have solid figures to suggest anything to the contrary, the statement seems highly debatable.

The current population of Norfolk approaching 900,000 whilst by historical accounts the pre black death population of Norfolk was around 200,000. The population of England as a whole is estimated to have been around 3000000 prior to the black death, and the population of Norfolk at the time will not have been anywhere near the level it is now - it simply did not make up a third of Englands population.

Dobsons' 'The Peasants Revolt 1381', gives an idea of tax payers representing somewhat less than 50% of the overall population at around 80,000. If we extrapolate the pop. figure to be 200,000 I think we would not be out of the realms of accuracy. If we then use the assumptions that the Black Death wiped out between a third and a half, even go as far as to say 2 thirds of the population we are left with a pre black death estimate of between 300,000 and 600,000.

Even by our highly unlikely upper figure of 600,000, this would have been surpassed some decades ago.

Unless any evidence can be found to back up the claim, might I suggest it is removed?

Cheers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.150.8.193 (talk) 14:04, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Amount about dispute over Norwich going unitary[edit]

In the politics section, there is a lot of detail put into the saga of whether or not Norwich would become a unitary authority. Does it need cutting down and the remainder put into a separate article, because as a sub-section it's pretty long. Indiasummer95 (talk) 12:29, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Pronunciation[edit]

/ˈnɔːfək/ is how it's written now, and if I mouse over the 'ə' it says "a in about". That would make it nor-fak. I don't think I've ever heard anyone pronounce it anywhere near that. Shouldn't it be whatever translates to nor-fuk or nor-fuhk? Hammerfrog (talk) 11:43, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Different Grammar?[edit]

Re "As a result, the speech of Norfolk is more of an accent than a dialect, though one part retained from the Norfolk dialect is the distinctive grammar of the region."

Surely - almost by definition - a form of speech which has a different grammar (in the proper scientific-linguistic sense) must at least be a different dialect (if not a different language)? Even Scottish English or Geordie, though they can be hard to understand if you are from the south, don't have a different grammar - just different accent and vocabulary. Since this is uncited, I suggest it is removed until some evidence is provided. 86.182.14.37 (talk) 10:16, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

'Normal for Norfolk'[edit]

This slang isn't only medical. I've heard it used in everyday speech. This paragraph sounds rather harsh: I don't believe anyone in England *seriously* thinks of Norfolk as an 'illiterate incestuous backwater.' (And semi-humorous stereotyping of people from most regions in the UK is not uncommon; including by people who come from those regions.) 86.182.14.37 (talk) 10:16, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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Flag[edit]

There is no article for the Flag of Norfolk. Is there any information, for example on its derivation and history, that could be added to this article? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:32, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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