Talk:Patricia Highsmith

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This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

Who stalked whom?

I am unclear as to whether Highsmith stalked the Bloomindale's woman or vice versa. Can someone please clear this up?

Done. It was Highsmith who did it, but it wasn't exactly stalking - Highsmith did not harass the woman, who never even knew of her existence. PhilipC

Themes, style and genre

Hello all

I have added a section discussing the critical analysis of Highsmith's literary work.

Happy to discuss Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 01:31, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sources and citations

Hello all

I have added a sources section so readers can easily identity the main works cited. The article currently uses several citation methods will-nilly. Unless there are any objections, I intend to progressively change the citation system to Harvard short foortnotes (Harvp) which is easier to use and much more flexible than the various systems used here.

Happy to discuss Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 01:52, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"article currently uses several citation methods will-nilly" – No, it doesn't. That is a false statement. News sources, magazine sources, website sources, book sources — ALL sources are cited with a citation template. Use Source Editor instead of the Visual Editor and you can see that all the citation templates are consistent. It also uses semantic refnames per Template:Refname rules, which you failed to do. Pyxis Solitary (yak yak). Ol' homo. 00:35, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The article uses citation templates but with different full citation styles. Sometimes page numbers aren't specified and a new citation of the same source is made by citing a chapter and linking it to the internet archive. In other cases a page number is cited in the citation template. In yet other cases a page number is cited using the Rp template. The result is redundancy. This could be reduced by either by creating named references or short footnotes or both. As I suggested, Harvp short footnotes is widely used and flexible and would be my preference. But the article does indeed use multiple methods resulting in redundancy: Wikipedia:IBID

The current structure also makes it very difficult for the casual reader to ascertain what the major works about Highsmith are. A separate Sources or Works cited section would solve this. This is the most common method used in biographical articles about writers that have achieved good article and featured article status. I hope to work with you and other interested editors to progressively improve this article. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 01:09, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I just cleaned-up the multiple duplicate citations. In doing so, I saw that you cited the 2011 paperback of Schenkar's biography; however, the original 2009 hardcover is the Schenkar book source that was used in the article before you added a "Themes, style and genre" section. Pyxis Solitary (yak yak). Ol' homo. 02:22, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that. Sorry about using a different edition. I think the page numbering for Shenkar's biography is the same for both editions, but I will have to check that out. By the way, the links to the first edition on Internet Archive aren't available for borrowing so I can't see the pages. Is there a way around this? I think we will need page reference for each of these citations. Cheers Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 02:26, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not being able to access the IA copy any longer is probably due to IA recently losing the copyright lawsuit against it: The Internet Archive Loses Its Appeal of a Major Copyright Case. Pyxis Solitary (yak yak). Ol' homo. 02:41, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reception of work

Hello all

I have added a section on the critical and public reception of Highsmith's work. Although there is lengthy discussion of Carol and the Ripliad there isn't a section assessing her literary work as a whole.

Happy to discuss Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 04:56, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can you please stop using numeric refnames. This article uses only semantic value refnames. See Template:Refname rules ("Names should have semantic value, so that they can be more easily distinguished from each other by human editors who are looking at the wikitext."). You're relying too much on using Visual Editor and VE is (to put it bluntly) f'ed-up. Read WP:VELIM. Editors who rely on VE force other editors to clean-up after them. Pyxis Solitary (yak yak). Ol' homo. 07:01, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My apologies but I have a disability which makes it difficult for me to use source editing. The refnames seem to have got scrambled when I transferred my edits from my sandbox. I checked them but it looks like I missed one. As previously discussed, it would be helpful if there weren't five or six different refnames for the same edition of the same source. For example, Schenkar and Wilson have multiple refnames for the same editions. I will try to be more careful with the refnames. Thanks for fixing my error. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 08:45, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If all books are going to be cited with Harvard short footnotes as you did in the "Themes, style and genre" section, then it makes sense to use <ref name="Schenkar2009"> and <ref name="Wilson2003"> as the refnames when their biographies are cited. Other books should also use the "surname+book year" refnames, too. I'm sorry to hear that you have a disability that makes editing difficult. I struggle with one myself and know too well how that feels. Pyxis Solitary (yak yak). Ol' homo. 10:15, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Early life

Hello all

I have tried to straighten out the chronology of Highsmith's early life. I have corrected some errors and misleading information and I have added content to fill in some of the missing early years. I have checked the cited sources and have added page references where necessary. I have rewritten some content to better reflect what the sources say. I have moved some of the sources back to the Further Reading section when they are media articles based on Schenkar's biography and duplicate or distort what Schenkar wrote.

Happy to discuss Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 21:49, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Apprentice writer

Hello all

I have added this section to fill in the missing years between high school, Yaddo and the publication of her first novel. I have moved the section on Comic books here because Highsmith called it an apprenticeship for her literary career. I have summarised some of the detail about comic books that can be found in the links. I have added content about Highsmith's early stories and unfinished novels up to when her first novel was published. I have checked the cited biographical sources and have added page references and rewritten some content to reflect what the sources say.

Happy to discuss Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 21:49, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Major works

Hello all

I have changed the heading from "Writing history" to "Major Works" because the section is more a discussion of selected major works rather than an overview of Highsmith's entire literary career.

Happy to discuss Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 21:58, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello all

I have added more content on Strangers on a Train. I have replaced some unsourced and poorly sourced content about the Ripliad with more reliably sourced content. I have moved some content about screen adaptations to the appropriate section. I have added subheadings for the three major works discussed.

Happy to discuss Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 01:47, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Established writer

Hello all

I have added a new section to provide a brief summary of Highsmith's career as an established writer in the United States. This will make it easier for readers to follow the following sections on her personal life and major works. I have moved some material from the Reception of Work section here to reduce repetition.

Happy to discuss. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 00:53, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

England and France

Hello all

I have added a new section on Highsmith's career in England and France. I have moved some material from the Reception section to here.

Happy to discuss. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 01:49, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Switzerland and final years

Hello all

I have added this section to complete an overview of Highsmith's life. I have moved some content about her death from the Personal Life section and content about her final novel from the Major Works section.

Happy to discuss Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 07:25, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Personal life

Hello all

I have added sub-sections to this section and have expanded the content to make it less like a disparate list of facts.I have moved some content to other sections where they fit better. I have relied mostly on the three scholarly biographies by Wilson, Schenkar and Bradford rather than media and internet articles which merely draw on these biographies.

Happy to discuss. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 00:23, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Citing of Schenkar biography screwups

There is only ONE biography book written by Schenkar: <ref name="Schenkar2009">{{cite book|last1=Schenkar |first1=Joan |title=The Talented Miss Highsmith: The Secret Life and Serious Art of Patricia Highsmith |date=2009 |edition=1st |publisher=[[St. Martin's Press]] location=New York |isbn=978-0312303754 |url=https://archive.org/details/talentedmisshigh0000sche |url-access=registration}}</ref>. This is the edition editors used before the recent flurry of edits.
Now there are <"Schenkar20092"> refnames (for the same edition) and <"Schenkar2011"> refnames (for the paperback edition).
For an editor who described the citations in the article as being "will-nilly", this is careless and sloppy editing. The article should use one edition of the biography: the one that was already being used. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and the recent edits is proving it. Pyxis Solitary (yak yak). Ol' homo. 07:16, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My apologies for the duplicate reference. The problem is that before I started adding content there were 17 different refnames for the 2009 Edition of Schenkar. It seems that editors were creating a new named reference every time they added a chapter or page citation to the same edition. There only needs to be two refnames: Schenkar2009 for the 2009 edition and Schenkar2011 for the 2011 edition. The page numbers can be added using the Rp template or we can move to a system of shortened footnotes. I am checking each citation as I go along and as I find the right page number for the old citation I am adding it and removing the redundant refname. I am using the Rp template to add the page numbers because this was the most commonly used system I found before I started adding content to this article. This will take me some time and I do occasionally make a mistake. Once again I apologise for this but I think you will find that I have reduced the number of redundant full citations of the 2009 edition of Schenkar. As for my use of the 2011 edition of Schenkar, this is the edition I own and whenever I add content I am citing this edition. I am not aware of any Wikipedia Policy which states than only one edition of a work must be used per article. Please let me know if I am mistaken in this. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 09:07, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The 2009 St. Martin's Press hardcover edition (original) and the 2011 Picador: St. Martin's Press paperback edition have the same total pages. The only difference between them is the cover (hard vs. soft):

The most coherent method for citing Schenkar's book is to continue using the 2009 edition. Pyxis Solitary (yak yak). Ol' homo. 11:01, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relationships and sexuality

Hello all

I have moved some content about Highsmith's most important relationships and have added content. I have created a new sub-heading to cover this. I have summarised some content. This gives a fuller account of her most significant relationships throughout her life. I have mostly relied on the scholarly biographies about Highsmith rather than media articles and websites which mostly draw on these biographies.

Happy to discuss. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 06:16, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Views

Hello all

I have changed the heading and added sub-headings to reflect a wider range of Highsmith's views on politics, women, animals and religion. I have added content and summarised some content. For citations, I have concentrated on the biographies of Bradford, Schenkar and Wilson rather than media and internet articles which take content from these biographies.

Happy to discuss. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 23:11, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Price of Salt

Hello all

I have added some content and reworded some content to reflect a wider range of sources. I have replaced some content sourced to blogs with similar content from more reliable sources Wikipedia:Reliable sources. I have change the reference to a "happy ending" to a "hopeful ending" given that Schenkar and Talbot point out that Carol has to give up custody of her child to be with Therese and Highsmith was more cautious about the ending, writing: "it had a happy ending for its two main characters, or at least they were going to try to have a future together." Talbot calls the novel "hopeful". Schenkar calls the ending "almost happy."

Happy to discuss Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 06:25, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Before deleting any blog as a source just because it's a blog, remember that WP:BLOGS states: "Self-published expert sources may be considered reliable when produced by an established subject-matter expert, whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable, independent publications."; and WP:BLPSPS states: "Never use self-published sources—including...blogs...as sources of material about a living person, unless written or published by the subject of the article." This article, however, is not a BLP. Pyxis Solitary (yak yak). Ol' homo. 12:58, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

Hello all

I have expanded the lead to adequately summarise the new content in the article.

Happy to discuss Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 05:02, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]