Talk:Ethnic violence in South Sudan

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Conflict relation[edit]

Is this actually part of the Sudanese nomadic conflicts?Greyshark09 (talk) 17:02, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

No it's a domestic conflict occurring withing South Sudanese borders, whilst the Sudanese nomadic conflicts article refers to the cross border skirmishes between Sudan and South Sudan. Two very different conflicts. --Kuzwa (talk) 04:15, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
I'm currently creating a timeline for the article, extending to the beginning of 2011, before South Sudan became an independant country. Without deep background on this, I will need help expanding the article after I've finished adding information from January to December. After that is complete, please feel free to split the article or create new article(s) for the timeline. ~AH1 (discuss!) 01:04, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Funding from the US?[edit]

NY times claims so:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/13/world/africa/south-sudan-massacres-follow-independence.html?_r=1

Although there are counter claims:

http://humanosphere.kplu.org/2012/01/seattle-man-accused-of-helping-fund-south-sudan-massacre-calls-it-defense/

©Geni 00:57, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Tribal?[edit]

The Nuer and Murle are culturally, linguistically and ethnically distinct. Tribal suggest they share a common ethnicity which is simply not the case. -- Secondat of Orange (talk) 01:49, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

you're right. I changed the title--Reader1987 (talk) 12:18, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Rename[edit]

I believe this page should be renamed Murle-Nuer conflict or Nuer-SSDM conflict, this because:

  • The South Sudan Liberation Army insurgency, which is just as violent, has resurfaced in recent weeks. It is also a internal conflict in South Sudan.
  • This conflict is far too regional to rightly be called a "South Sudan internal conflict".
  • the former is the name used South Sudanese and activist press.

As it stands the misleading name has lead to actions by other South Sudanese insurgent groups to be included on the article. --- Secondat of Orange (talk) 11:10, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

I agree this needs to be broken up into separate articles for the rebellions by George Athor, David Yau Yau, Gatluak Gai etc. Is the Murle-Nuer conflict the one with Yau Yau? Do you have time to help with this initiative?Keitsist (talk) 03:57, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
I suggest keeping at least a summary of the events in one place, and then we can create additional separate articles if their notability merits it. Last year, I created a timeline to provide a chronological flow of the events, so that unrelated conflicts could be compared and linked together if two different conflicts interacted with each other or created net consequences. The scope of this conflict extends beyond South Sudan, and most of the timeline portion consists of events that occurred between the referendum and declaration of independence. Much of the conflict has now been resolved, but the internal stability issues, tribal and political conflicts, and malnutrition & refugee crisis continue to persist. This event will likely play a major role in the rest of South Sudan's future as a country. I do agree, though, that some of the topics, such as specific factions and movements within the SPLA, in addition to the historical, religious and ethnic roots of the tribal conflicts deserve additional articles. Keep in mind, though, that separate parties play a role in the conflict from all sides (i.e. this isn't just an A vs. B conflict), and that other issues like oil infrastructure, (paticularly in Abyei) and the withdrawing of the UN Food Programme also have a large impact in this unfolding crisis. ~AH1 (discuss!) 04:55, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Suggested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No move as of yet. If the intention is to split the article, that can be done without an RM, and the discussion between the involved editors should continue below. If and when the split is carried out, the article can be moved to a more suitable title by myself or another admin uncontroversially. Cúchullain t/c 13:56, 27 February 2013 (UTC)



South Sudan internal conflict (2011–present)Murle-Nuer conflict – Most of this article is about the violence between Murle and Nuer in Jonglei. The other clashes have different combatants and should be separated out. Keitsist (talk) 08:25, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Survey[edit]

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.
  • Oppose: There may be a case for such a move if the other clashes are separated out, but, as they haven't been, then the case for a move doesn't make any sense at all. Skinsmoke (talk) 09:35, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
    • That is a reasonable concern. What do you suggest as an alternative? Right now this is mostly a timeline of Murle-Nuer violence and sprinkling of tangentially related events in S. Sudan. This creates a chicken-and-egg problem. Either the non-Murle-Nuer violence is removed and then the article is renamed, which will raise the ire of those who want the article to contain all events relevant to the current title, or the article is renamed while still containing some unrelated content and then edited, which has the problem that you mentioned. I think it's clearer to indicate the direction of editing by renaming the whole thing first. Keitsist (talk) 04:11, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Comment: I think I would be inclined to place a message on the Talk pages of those editors who have made contributions to the article, advising them that it is proposed to split the article as you suggest. If there are no objections that cannot be resolved, go ahead. The move could then be dealt with as a technical request (or at least as non-controversial). Skinsmoke (talk) 19:31, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Discussion[edit]

Any additional comments:

There has been no action on this discussion for two weeks. Absent a pressing need to keep it open, I am inclined to close this discussion as not moved within the next 24 hours. Cheers! bd2412 T 03:26, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The discussion regarding events at the beginning of this article are opinion. There is no proof that the boycott and event lead to or caused the initial outbreak of violence in Juba (accused coup attempt), and therefor can NOT be assumed as the original cause of the violence. If anything, the removal of Riek from vice-presidency should then also be listed as a 'instigating factor'. I dont approve of this article at all. Even claiming it as a civil war can be questioned. All the references for calling it a civil war are from news agencies. They hardly have the right to make a decision if it is in fact a civil war, and use such terms to gain more readers attention. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.84.205.230 (talk) 22:28, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Merge[edit]

I don't see any difference in subject matter between this page and South Sudanese Civil War, the latter is simply about the intensification of the former, besides, the former is quite out of date and is lacking in substance and the latter could use some more backround. Charles Essie (talk) 17:26, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

  • Oppose - No, the current South Sudan conflict began with the attempted coup. The conflict in this article began much earlier.--FutureTrillionaire (talk) 18:06, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
  • The current situation is part of this conflict because it involves all the same players, this article even mentions the current crisis within the framework of this conflict. Charles Essie (talk) 19:18, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Comment – If this article is merged, it needs to be pruned mercilessly for length. It needs pruning already, even without merging: it is too long to read. It is also written in bulleted list style like a "Year in South Sudan" calendar. It should be narrative prose, with editorial brevity. — O'Dea (talk) 21:52, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
  • Support Charles Essie is correct. There already exists a structure for this kind of ongoing war, see War in Somalia. We could do the same here. My only reservation would be that there is also plenty of non-ethnic violence in RSS. I agree the article needs "pruning" but let's not let quantity get in the way of quality.Keitsist (talk) 04:19, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
  • Question How will we merge 2 huge articles, let alone that their refs are different too?--Mishae (talk) 17:22, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
  • It wouldn't be that hard. There's alot of overlap between the two articles. Much the other content here could be condensed and put in the background section of the other article. Charles Essie (talk) 01:31, 21 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose - per FutureTrillionaire.GreyShark (dibra) 21:16, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

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Change format[edit]

How about we format the article in to sections such as Murle-Nuer violence, Nuer-Dinka violence and so on instead of a timeline, as it might seem to flow better. Additionally, I was thinking of changing the title to "Ethnic violence in South Sudan", removing the "(2011-present)". There is nothing special about 2011 in terms of ethnic violence or some definite beginning to a new phase. This article was made before the civil war started as a single war with a infobox, which is a point hardly supported by sources. Since the civil war started there has been a lot of overlap and for largely those reasons most voted to change the article anyway from the discussion above but nothing came of it. I think doing this should make this article useful on its own. JustBeCool (talk) 15:42, 27 November 2016 (UTC)

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