User talk:Ellin Beltz/Archive 6

March

Island Mountain

You should consider that Island Mountain is a massif and that the ridge extends from Mendocino County into into Trinity County. South Peak is the highest point on Island Mountain. It is the policy of WikiProject Mountains to give the elevation of the highest point. Generally a mountain is considered to be in the county in which the summit is found. If you check GNIS it list Mendocino County first in the lists of counties. I think a reasonable compromise would be to list both counties in the article. I will edit the article sometime tonight. If you have an objection leave a note on my talk page. –droll [chat] 00:34, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps state that more clearly in the page, as it is now that concept is absent. Island Mountain the peak which is in Trinity County is the part of the ridge which delayed the railroad for Humboldt County until 1914 and which is geologically described in the article as it is now. Also please help out with Mendocino Range that page, is it part of the massif to which you refer or a different one? Thanks for the clarification, but for the Railroad section we need to be clear that the "Island Mountain" mentioned in all the histories is a point in Trinity County, not a wide range of hills. Also the mining figures given are specific to that one mountain, not the entire range. Perhaps the entire range has a name different from the one peak? I am unable to find such on any map, but South Peak is in Mendocino County and it is not the historic "Island Mountain" to which the rest of the article refers. Ellin Beltz (talk) 00:43, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

I replied to your last comment on my talk page. –droll [chat] 05:05, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

I want to make sure you know that I had nothing to do with the edit by 67.165.236.7. –droll [chat] 07:10, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

I would never have made that assumption, but thanks for pointing out the anon editor who is possibly the owner of the site he keeps sourcing as the only source of info on the peak. And it's only a website, so not a great secondary source. It's too late tonight to try to fix a thing, if I could find any references other than the GNIS stuff to this "range" I'd be a lot happier. I don't mind mentioning that the highest point in the range is Xpeak, but another coordinate needs to point to the actual point of the railroad and resource extraction areas. Ellin Beltz (talk) 07:29, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

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California

What exactly do you think was removed that you want re-added? Int21h (talk) 23:00, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

Looks like User:Binksternet fixed it. Cheers! Ellin Beltz (talk) 05:42, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

I did not like the Int21h wording which seemed overly legalistic, starting from "pursuant". However, I also found fault with the previous wording with modern California portrayed as a republic when it is clearly a state of the USA. Binksternet (talk) 05:46, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks! Ellin Beltz (talk) 06:01, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

At the very minimum, it needs the "government" (the cabinet/agencies/departments) in the government section, which is oddly missing. I will post a proposal on the talk page and we can hash it out there. Int21h (talk) 10:35, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

De-No-To Cultural District

Thanks for letting me know. I only put it back in the top-level category so it would be in the Humboldt County category tree, as it was only in Trinity County's top-level category when I made that change. Since it's public information that the site is in Humboldt and Trinity Counties (just not where in the counties), I do feel it's appropriate to categorize the article accordingly. The subcategories you added to the article make a lot more sense, though, and I'm fine with the categorization as it is. TheCatalyst31 ^{Reaction•Creation} 19:57, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Explaining

I patrolled your page. I went through the enormously-backlogged list of newly-created pages and confirmed that your page was okay: not spam, not an attack page, not a copyright violation, not any of the other reasons for which I would delete someone's page without asking. Then I clicked "patrolled" to remove it from the list of "pages that have not yet been patrolled", and moved on to the next entry. That's all. DS (talk) 23:34, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

"Patrolled" means that it's not something that I would delete right away. It's good enough to stay for at least a while. If you feel something is inappropriate, you're welcome to tag it for deletion -- either a prod or an AfD. DS (talk) 17:47, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Hi, DS: I wish I knew enough to do the prod or an AfD as you suggest. The only times I've used "AFD" I've gotten jumped on like crazy from other editors for even nominating the article and I'm very gunshy to do that again. Is there perhaps a "can you help me with" these things? Perhaps a friendly admin or something? Previously I nominated for speedy deletion a page of a man with one mention of him in the NYTimes about how he stacked two flower pots together and calls them a "candle heater". I am aware of this person in real life and that he uses the "see I'm in Wiki" to lure unsuspecting people to take him seriously. I tried to get his article deleted for non-notability (which he truly is), and was told "because his name is in the New York Times, one time, barely mentioned, he's notable." I don't want to take on some lady who claims she has been on BBC if Mr. Candle Heeter is notable. Thanks for your help & understanding! Ellin Beltz (talk) 17:51, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Hi Ellin Beltz - what is the page in question? I'll take a look at the background and see what I can do. I would agree that simply being mentioned in the NY Times doesn't make one notable (if it did, I'd have an article for blocking Stephen Colbert on Wikipedia!) - it does have to be taken in context! -- Tawker (talk) 18:55, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Banana Island

I've re-written the article to better confirm with Wikipedia standards. Please review and let me know if you're happy withdraw your deletion nomination. Ajisekanla (talk) 22:05, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Ajisekanla: Someone else must have removed the nomination flag as it is no longer on the article. You did a really good rewrite, thank you. Ellin Beltz (talk) 22:15, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Santa Rosa Cahuilla Indians

I did some checking and Nemethhedp is right. You may wish to start here, then check out the physical locations of "Toro Peak, Coyote Canyon/Anza Borrego, Garner Valley, Pinion and present day Santa Rosa Indian Reservation" as listed in the cited Web site. Santa Rosa, California, is a city aproximately 55 miles north of San Francisco. (For what it's worth, the confusion is not uncommon.) :) —ATinySliver/^ATalkPage 08:21, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

@Nemethhedp & @ATinySliver You are correct, mea culpa. I appreciate your changing that back, ATS. We have so many new users who come in and blank the pre-European history on California towns, that my assumption - since the information which was there previously was cited - was that this was another of same. As stated both here and on the article talk page, my apologies to Nemethhedp. Any chance of getting some solid citations in the article about the actual pre-European settlement in the article? Cheers! Ellin Beltz (talk) 21:15, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Greetings! Yours was clearly a good-faith edit supported by WP:BOLD, as was its reversion [grin]. Also, because this is not uncommon, I went ahead and threw in an {{about}} at the top.

Meantime, I did a cursory check of the book cited in this edit and it seems legit. :) —ATinySliver/^ATalkPage 21:54, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Legit, yes, really accessible for the reader, not so much... I'm sure there must be more on the pre-Euro-history of the area! Ellin Beltz (talk) 22:13, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

(←) True dat; at the same time, I learned while preparing what I'd hoped would be a Featured Article that "accessible for the reader" is not always possible. That having been said, I'll try to find something additional as I get to it. :) —ATinySliver/^ATalkPage 22:39, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks! I don't normally try to edit Wikipedia, but that entry was bothering me. I can definitely see why a new user changing or deleting something would be frustrating. I hope to possibly add onto the history section sometime in the near future. 06:00, 31 March 2014 (UTC)Nemethhedp (talk)

Thank you for being understanding!! Ellin Beltz (talk) 02:43, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Sequoia Park Zoo

Hello, I appreciate your "trimming" of the Sequoia Park Zoo page, but I believe you overstepped your boundaries. The changes I made were to simply remove certain animals that were no longer at the zoo and add some that are there now (I am an employee there and simply wanted to update the current collection). I did not however create the "zillions of headers" you chose to remove - they were implemented by whomever created the page originally; and I believe they are necessary as they directly relate to the various overarching themed exhibit areas within the whole zoo. Yes, I did change one of the header names to properly reflect the new exhibit, but I do not feel you should have ceremoniously removed them all. If they truly did break some "Wikipedia code" then I believe you should have consulted with the original author before making those changes. Thank you. Kjuliano33 (talk) 17:31, 30 March 2014 (UTC)Kathleen

Hi @ Kjuliano33. There seems to be some confusion here about what Wikipedia is - and is not. Reading through the pages sent to you on my welcome note, you would find that several of the things in your note above are not customary in the Wikipedia project. There are no boundaries to overstep. There is no reason to consult with the "original author" on making changes to any page of the project. It is not customary to arrive upset and cranky in other user's talk pages for being welcomed to the project and informed why changes were made to an article you edited on one of your first days here. The Wikipedia guidelines for zoos are what we have to follow for the headers. I'm really sorry but while "Flamingos, Cavies & Screamers, Oh My!" might be a great line for a promotional pamphlet, it is out of scope of the Wikipedia project and not an acceptable headline. I need to caution you that you are close to or in violation of WP:COI, the Wikipedia Conflict of Interest policy as you stated that you are an employee of Zoo covered by the page you edited. Please take time to read the materials which I provided on your talk page. Additionally, please do not be angry, assume good faith and enter the project as a happy and contributing member working within the guidelines and with your fellow editors in a collegial atmosphere.

Outbursting at me for informing you that that I removed an out of policy headline you created and at the same time removed the other headers which mostly over a single sentence (please see policy there too). Other than the promotional headline you added, the headers were implemented quite a while ago and have been on my list of things to change about that article for some time. Please see here for the point in the article history in which those headers were implemented. I'm sure you can use your zoo experience and education to work on pages with which you have no WP:COI. Cheers! Ellin Beltz (talk) 21:12, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

April 2014

Re: Non-notable article

This is a heads up bringing to your attention the deletion process started on the entry for "Allyson Stewart-Allen," after you messaged me about it. Cheers. -The Gnome (talk) 14:56, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

FYI

Please take a look on your request in →de:Wikipedia:Checkuser/Anfragen/Geraldbaden. --Lómelinde (talk) 06:35, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for the notice, Lómelinde. I think perhaps the administrator over there didn't understand that all three of those users are editing (and adding copyvio pictures to Commons) to self-promote. It would appear all three are the same as the subject of the article. Unfortunately, I have no ability to read in German and I do not understand how to explain that to the editor who said that two user accounts, and one anonymous was ok because it was obviously a rookie. Perhaps they have different rules about self-promotion and WP:COI on de:wiki? Again, thank you for your help. Ellin Beltz (talk) 16:15, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Sorry I′m not often online in the en:Wikipedia because my english is not very good. But I think you can contakt user Filzstift, who ist able to speak english more well than I. If you explain him the reason for your request, he can give you an answer how to manage it. Maybe he can talk to the users to explain them what is wrong with their edtis and pictures. Please forgive me for my broken english. I hope you understand the meaning of my words. Regards --Lómelinde (talk) 05:07, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Hello Ellin, of course, he acted in a COI, but in deWP this is not a case for a Checkuser. A person who acted in a COI is requested to declare his interests according our rules in de:WP:VER (user verification) via OTRS. He must declare for which company or person he works. If he is willing do to that, he may edit according our rules (no advertisement etc.), otherwise he'll be banned. If a such user was verified, but is (continuing) in promoting himself, his product, his company etc., is deleting criticism and so on, or violates our rules in any other way he will be banned through de:WP:VM (= WP:RVAN in en). For banning a checkuser is not required. Checkuser is only required if we have some doubt if the user has sock puppets (unlink the CU policy here in en) and the user "has been vandalizing articles or persistently behaving in a disruptive way" (from Meta checkuser policy). But in this case I don't have any doubt this was the same user behind the accounts and I don't see he is "persistently behaving in a disruptive way". --Filzstift (talk) 13:42, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Nancy Kelsey

The DYK project (nominate) 23:52, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

Mendocino County Election Results

If you would have actually taken the time to look up the results, you would have seen that the old results were wrong and that I changed the results to the correct figures. Don't accuse me of vandalism without looking up the facts first. In fact, it is you who is guilty of vandalism because you removed the correct figures and replaced them with the wrong figures.

My source is here: http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/statesub.php?year=2012&fips=6045&f=0&off=0&elect=0

I have fixed the Mendocino County page, and don't even think about changing it back to the wrong numbers.

```` — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.146.145.228 (talk) 20:38, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, but that's not a reliable source. I searched out the County of Mendocino official election results and added the citation. Your threat is unnecessary and unwelcome. Ellin Beltz (talk) 23:05, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

May 2014

Copy edit to your post in ANI archive 838

Hi Ellin. FYI I made a minor copy edit to one of your posts as the code had corrupted the page and rendered multiple archived sections below invisible. I do not believe I changed the meaning of your post. HelenOnline 17:18, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Hi Helen: That's fine, I probably would never have noticed! The interaction was so unfortunate, I had hoped to get help with an anon editor problem and got my head handed to me. After that, I removed a large part of my watch-list - including that transaction. Cheers! Ellin Beltz (talk) 04:16, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

Hello, Ellin Beltz. You have new messages at Dkriegls's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Hello, Ellin Beltz. You have new messages at Dkriegls's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Kinetic Sculpture Race

Hello Ellin, I have revised and reworded my changes, adding new references. Please note that Hobart's original XC race title was used on promotional materials (posters, fliers, t-shirts) up until the name change in 2007, though I chose not to reference those. I hope that you will find these additions improve the clarity of this site. Buckyclown (talk) 20:53, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

Hi Buckyclown: I went through the page again doing general housekeeping and removed the "ref - persons name unref" you added. Citations need to be reliable secondary sources, please see the links on the welcome message I put on your user page. Individual humans, no matter how knowledgeable, are not reliable secondary sources. I was unable to find any reliable secondary source on the Kingfish. I have a suggestion: Perhaps work with the new folks at the North Coast Journal to do a retrospective article and then that new article with the local information which you have (and which is real, true and correct) would have a reliable secondary source from which it could be added and cited. Cheers! Ellin Beltz (talk) 20:02, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

Hello again Ellin: Thanks for the advise. When I couldn't find anything in print it seemed logical to reference the creator of both sculptures, but I understand the reasoning. Buckyclown (talk) 20:26, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

June 2014

BLP for deletion

As someone who has shown an interest in the article "H. Craig Hanna", you are hereby informed that it has been nominated for deletion. -The Gnome (talk) 10:16, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Horrorvitz puppet?

Thought you might like to know... [1] Cheers! Hammersbach (talk) 18:28, 9 July 2014 (UTC) Hi Hammersbach : I am glad you told me, please see here. Ellin Beltz (talk) 18:59, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

July 2014

For previous discussions, please see the archives.

And the beat goes on...

He was a busy little beaver, wasn't he? [2][3] Hammersbach (talk) 12:09, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps more than we will ever know. Ellin Beltz (talk) 18:37, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

August 2014

I'm too sad to tell you

Ellin: I just uploaded File:Im too sad to tell you.jpg to Wikipedia under a fair use rationale. I'd welcome you input on the upload. --Nowa (talk) 16:11, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Hello, Ellin Beltz. You have new messages at Dkriegls's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

September 2014

Software development process picture

This edit was a response to the woman depicted (who is a software developer and educator), who found the picture she found in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Software_development_process reinfocing a gender stereotype she didn't like, and asked how to change it, because apprently she didn't know how.

As a gentleman, I wanted to help a lady with the kind of technical difficulties that ladies, according to the stereotype she was complaining about, tend to have with all things technical, and in the spirit of WP:BB replaced the existing picture in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Software_development_process with a picture of her.

If another woman believes that this is inappropriate feninist radicalism, I am more than happy to see it changed, but I would suggest that the entry be restored to the state before I changed it, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Software_development_process&oldid=620081131 , as I already suggested in the comment explaining my change.

Tongue firmly in cheek, Tatzelbrumm (talk) 06:22, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Hiya Tatzelbrumm: I found an older image from the project that seems to be more global in orientation. Let me know what you think! Cheers! Ellin Beltz (talk) 06:58, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

I think that https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coding_Shots_Annual_Plan_high_res-5.jpg is a suitable and representative example of a software developer. I wouldn't see any problem if it was restored. — Tatzelbrumm (talk) 08:16, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

I don't think any of these are very good, personally... A shot of some guy's neckhairs and proprietary images on screen in a Wiki office isn't really any better than the Nigerian image and certainly the educator with kiddies was the weakest of all. Personally I don't think that "here's a software developer (human)" is the same as "Software Development Process" and truly does not require an image of a human being at the top of that page at all. Take a poke around the associated categories, there are dozens of prime images for that page which don't include some lady Facebooking herself all over Wiki by having you change the template photo to her. I'd suggest that there are a lot of people out there who like to game the system and get included in the Wiki projects - not saying this one was one of those - but having seen so doggone many I'm very concerned when I see this kind of pwn in action. Of the three photos discussed, I vote to keep the Nigerians as it shows multiculturalism and removes the American bias. Ellin Beltz (talk) 16:02, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

There's a difference between software developer (human) and "here's what software development looks like", with a Device Under Test, a big screen to look at the code being developed, and a white guy with neck hair in a US office at the monitors.

That said, I'll just remark: Well played! — Tatzelbrumm (talk) 01:00, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

Expired OTRS

I just checked back in on Wikipedia:Help_desk/Archives/2014_September_25#Deleted_OTRS_submission. You mentioned an expired OTRS. You only deleted one of the three images. Why?--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:26, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

Because the one of three images came up on the daily report of files overdue for deletion. Ellin Beltz (talk) 19:51, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

I am a bit confused on why only one of the three images was on such a list. I thought all or none of them should be if they were on the same OTRS ticket.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 01:11, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

I am too, but I didn't invent the system, so I don't know how to even think of how it might have not performed perfectly. Ellin Beltz (talk) 03:14, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Is it really necessary to remove climate data that had nothing to do with the text??

I spent like an hour on each of those two places filling out the numbers from Weatherbase to get some proper data to those areas. Your decision to remove everything comes off as vandalism to me. Right, I get your point about climate differences with places in close proximity not being important to you, but to the average reader who is not from Humboldt/Northern California like you it might be. People who don't think that microclimates are very interesting. For someone in Europe, where myself living 80 miles inland just have a degree hotter summer and a degree colder winters than the coastline that is "woah" and something worth highlighting. Also, those places are unique in a worldwide context. 34 °C (93 °F) days and 9 °C (48 °F) nights in the same place for such a low elevation as Weaverville is astounding, as is the unique almost subpolar mediterranean nature of Eureka's summers. To be able to put together 2 + 2 = 4 is not original research, nor is it outrageous claims. Climate articles from all over the world is full of "original research" when it comes to commenting on classification, because it is a question of definitions. Saying for example that the interior of Sweden where I live "get really harsh frosts" every winter is something that is very obvious when looking at the climate data. If not believing me, then go here yourself. We actually have some unique oceanic continental characteristics here, just around the threshold between having proper winters and not, as well as much hotter summers than expected for places approaching the 60th parallel close to a major ocean. Everybody here knows it is because of the influence of the Gulf stream that polar bears don't walk in our woods like they do in Northern Manitoba on similar parallels. But I suppose we're not supposed to talk about that either.

Also, take into account that you need to travel all the way from northern England to southern Spain to get temperature variations as just between Eureka and Willow Creek in summer. Or the northern coast of Manitoba all the way down to eh... Texas. California's coastal climate is a worldwide phenomenon and there is nothing like it, and therefore it should not be seen as original research because anyone paying attention can see that, especially when taken from verified data. That heatwaves get more comfortable with cooler nights is also "kind of obvious". When we had six days above 30 °C (86 °F) in a row here in inland Sweden this last summer it was obvious that it would have been less intense with a higher diurnal temperature variation. We have pretty long days in summer up this far north as you might know. That in turn renders heatwave days to start early and finish late just as standard summer days in low-lying valleys such as in Redding et cetera. During those days it was not as hot as the Central Valley in the days, but during nights it pretty much was. However, I promise just to reinstate the climate data and not say "jack squat" about Northern California's climate anymore, because it's obvious that you don't want anything known about that. It's very late here so excuse me for the bad mood, I don't want to be mean, but "original research" is like saying "xxx" was involved in car accident in New York City that day blah blah without providing source, it is not to draw reasonable conclusions about temperature ranges and classifications. Lommaren (talk) 01:30, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

Hi Lommaren: If you find published sources to use to add the information - that is within the goals of this project. To go 2+2=4 without citation is WP:NOR and is not part of the project. "Kind of obvious" is WP:NOR.

Incidentally instead of adding more WP:OR to Eureka, California, perhaps reading Climate of California would be the helpful? It does cover all these sorts of specific cases you mention without commingling town to town information which is against the Wikipedia Cities Projects Guidelines. Ellin Beltz (talk) 02:39, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

Deleting pictures

Hi! I did not know where I can ask my question. I am sorry to ask here if it is not suitable! Why you deleted pictures of Ashrafi Esfahani?Hananeh.M.h (talk) 07:25, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Hi Hananeh.M.h. This is Wikipedia... Your pictures are being discussed for deletions at Wikimedia Commons. Your questions have been asked and answered at [[4]] since 15 January 2015. Cheers! Ellin Beltz (talk) 18:02, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

?

Why you also deleted my picture saying copyright violation ? its my my click (talk) 10:05, 22 January 2015 (IST) If you could give me some clue about what you're talking about that would be a big help. There's nothing on your talk page and you didn't give me a link to anything to look at or into. Cheers! Ellin Beltz (talk) 16:57, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

File:Picture of Guilherme Siqueira joining Atletico Madrid.jpg

Please take a look at File:Picture of Guilherme Siqueira joining Atletico Madrid.jpg, it is the same file deleted from commons. Thank you. SLBedit (talk) 02:27, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

I have looked and I see that the image has been tagged for consideration for WP speedy deletion. I'm not too sure what you'd like me to do about it? Ellin Beltz (talk) 17:45, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Precious again

fight with love
Thank you for quality articles such as Josiah Gregg, expanded with devotion and resilience, for images of historic places, and for fighting vandalism with love, - you are an awesome Wikipedian!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:22, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Two years ago, you were the 436th recipient of my PumpkinSky Prize, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:15, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Thank you,Gerda - Your sapphire is one of the only awards I've ever received here and I remember it as if it was only yesterday!! Cheers!! Ellin Beltz (talk) 15:46, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Cardio First Angel - continuation #2

Hi Ellin,

thank you for your reply on my post Cardio First Angel. I also had a look at the "Template talk:Did you know" you recommended. From your reply I understand that you had a look at my first draft of the article , which was rejected. Since this first rejection I was communicating with Blue Rasberry (talk) who suggested to write summary from three credible references. I have followed his suggestions and you can find this article, which is also written in a neutral tone and is very different from the rejected original draft as a part of a post is called "Cardio First Angel - continuation". At this post I have asked what to do next and if this article would be acceptable for publishing as it follows the suggested guidelines. When I didn't get any reply, I wrote to you.

I am new to Wikipedia and I probably make many mistakes, as this is my first article. Additionally due to the fact that I find the navigation of Wikipedia rather confusing. I am not new to the computers (I started to learn computers still in MS-DOS era back in 1980ies.). It is never clear if the "talk" or reply goes to page of the person I write to or to mine. Do I reply in his/her page or on mine?

There is a long list of the articles on various subjects and Cardio First Angel is just one of them. Some have sort of reply other not. It is still not clear to me, where to submit another draft (or version which I included in the above mentioned post).

• Should I post in on the page of my account
• or should I post it on my "talk"?
• or some other place?
• is it possible to include pictures? If yes, and photos are mine therefore no breach of copyright, would it breach the "neutral tone" of the article?

Where do I go from here? Who makes a decision if the article is suitable and in positive case who does it get published?

I understand that this is a bit longer response, but I rather be stupid for a while and learn the correct answers than to give up and forget about Wikipedia altogether.

Thanks in advance

Animall — Preceding unsigned comment added by Animall (talk • contribs) 12:02, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Hiya Animall : The problem really is that you're too close to the subject and even what seems "neutral" comes out like promotion and publicity. Try editing articles, finding typos, categorizing pictures, doing something that's already part of the community process here until you learn your way around - then start articles. Very few new users who arrive planning to rewrite history end up staying very long. The people who contribute are able to set aside their points of view and go work on something really in need of help and that have tons of good sources like blue-green algae. Or perhaps look at your town or area you live in - is that information correct, can you find more secondary sources. In other words - practice on other articles first. Read the DYKs so you see what is considered good or not. I don't mean breeze through the page once, I mean day after day watch the process. Cheers! Ellin Beltz (talk) 16:11, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Question for you

Hi Ellin, hope this finds you well. May I ask, are you a admin on the en site or just commons? talk→ WPPilot  22:32, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Crdio First Angel - continuation #3

Hi Ellin,

Thank you for your general advice and I sincerely believe that you try to help. The thing is that nobody from previous editors, including you was able or willing to answer the specific questions I have asked. I was expecting specific answers on my specific questions. This would be really helpful. I have no idea why I should be looking on blue algae, when I have no interest in it. (I get your point that I would understand structure of the article). If the Cardio First Angel (CFA) article is written in a neutral tone just explaining the function of it or taken summary from the references at the same tone (as Bluerasberry suggested) including the quoting independent tests and stating its results, how can this be personal or subjective? Also what is important for me - and more helpful, is to get answers on my specific questions including these I have mentioned in my last post:

It is never clear if the "talk" or reply goes to page of the person I write to or to mine. Do I reply in his/her page or on mine? There is a long list of the articles on various subjects and Cardio First Angel is just one of them. Some have sort of reply other not. It is still not clear to me, where to submit another draft (or version which I included in the above mentioned post).

• Should I post in on the page of my account
• or should I post it on my "talk"?
• or some other place?
• is it possible to include pictures? If yes, and photos are mine therefore no breach of copyright, would it breach the "neutral tone" of the article?

So, when I get answers to my questions (or get pointed in a direction where these answers are) I will learn much more than when I get general suggestions even if they are generally good.

Cheers

Animall — Preceding unsigned comment added by Animall (talk • contribs) 23:36, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

So let me be very direct - It's not a good idea to only work on things which are your pet projects. It's called "lack of neutrality. You are receiving the correct answers by being told to go read all those links they gave you on your talk page. Why should anyone retype pages of instructions until after you read what is already there? And it's obvious you're not reading the links because your questions are clearly and simply answered on those pages!! I really am distressed that you're missing the point that you should not be editing something to which you are so close. Ellin Beltz (talk) 16:23, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Hi Ellin,

thank you for getting back to me so quickly. To my understanding, and correct me if I am wrong, the purpose of the Wikipedia is to share the knowledge and inform others about subjects, they may not know about. So, why anyone should edit for example and article on the subject he/she knows nothing about? It is like ask preschooler to correct algebra, or ask a mechanical engineer to edit article about function of the brain. Cardio First Angel is not my pet project. I have only discovered its existence, read about it in various articles and independent tests (references I have mentioned previously) and when I have find out there is nothing about it in Wikipedia, I thought it would be beneficial for people to know about it and that it may even help to save some lives. So, I wanted to write an article based on these references. That's all. If I wanted to write about my "pet project", I would write about photography, animation and SFX, because I have over 40 years of experience in it. You may have also noticed that I didn't ask anyone to "retype pages of instructions" as you put it. I have only asked "get pointed in a direction where these answers are". You are accusing me of "lack of neutrality" but when I specifically asked: "If the Cardio First Angel (CFA) article is written in a neutral tone just explaining the function of it or taken summary from the references at the same tone (as Bluerasberry suggested) including the quoting independent tests and stating its results, how can this be personal or subjective?" I don't get any specific reply what is "wrong" or "subjective". Neither you mentioned what is wrong with my second draft of the article, only mentioned the first one which was rejected. If I look in the history of these communication, I didn't notice "all those links". I have only found reference to "DYK" and "blue-green algae" So, please be specific and explain to me where I am wrong and why quoting of the independent test from the university, for example lacks "neutrality" and I will be very happy to learn.

Take Care

Animall — Preceding unsigned comment added by Animall (talk • contribs) 15:24, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Hi Animall: You were given message with links that told you to visit the Teahouse for help; but I don't see you went there. I don't understand why you have such a mono-mania on this one particular article. That in itself is indicative of WP:COI, otherwise known as being too close to a subject. And yes children could make edits to algebra pages, if they cited reliable secondary sources as is part of the project. What isn't part of the project is self-serving advertising content put in by people too close to the subject of what's being advertised. You're too close and too defensive, otherwise you'd spend time figuring out what is needed on the project instead of adding another single-topic advertising page.

Because your submission only has reference to the company website itself, and no reliable secondary sources, it's a WP:POV edit and will continue to be declined in perpetuity until someone other than that company finds its work and/or products notable.

I have put a reference page of links on your talk page, since you don't seem to be able to read the ones on the left hand side of each window. Cheers! Ellin Beltz (talk) 16:57, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

S O A W

YOU ARE THE BEST EXAMPLE OF HOW WIKIPEDIA CAN NOT BE USED AS A SOURCE OF RESEARCH.

DMB ASSHL

USER: IREWOLDE — Preceding unsigned comment added by 177.106.29.120 (talk) 16:59, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

To anonymous editor of foregoing paragraph.

Please see The Commons Administrator's Noticeboard-User problems. Thank you. Ellin Beltz (talk) 20:34, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

Sports in California

Dear Ellin, you have reverted an edit of mine on California#Sports where I added some information about college teams and motorsport tracks, with the argument that "information needs citations". Do you suggest that what I wrote is false? You can easily check the articles I linked. --NaBUru38 (talk) 23:17, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

NaBUru38: No I don't disbelieve you about the factual content, but to add so much information requires citations. Probably one citation per team you listed. See the diff and you'll notice it was a bald edit, much information, but no sources. Cheers! Ellin Beltz (talk) 23:24, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

KHUM

Hi, I noticed your revision to my edits to the KHUM page. The references are still inline, just the bulk of the reference (in the coding) is at the bottom. It makes the page easier to read when you are editing, believe me.

I did check the references before readding and all of the ones used were either daily or weekly newspapers. Blogs are never used per WP:BLOGS. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 16:49, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

I compromised on the KHUM page. I took my previous version and combined it with your perfered inline full sources (instead of the "giant lump at the end") and put it into one. I'll check and make sure I didn't edit out any further changes you made. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 17:50, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

I just added some of the other changes you made in the interspacing edits back to the page. Hopefully this is a good compromise. If not, we can work on one. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 17:56, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi Neutralhomer, Please note that <ref name="GM1">{{cite news|newspaper=Lost Coast Outpost|location=Ferndale, California|publisher=Lost Coast Communications, Inc.|title=Lost Coast Communications Welcomes Tom Newhouse as New General Manager|url=http://lostcoastoutpost.com/2013/jun/5/lost-coast-communications-welcomes-new-general-man/|date=June 5, 2013|accessdate=September 2, 2015|last=Sims|first=Hank}}</ref> is not only not a reliable secondary source (since the station owns the blog), but it's a blog. And as you know blogs are never used. I saw that going past yesterday but ran out of time to find any reliable source for it. North Coast Journal is only marginally more reliable in this situation since Hank Sims, (of Lost Coast Outpost) also works/ed at the Journal. It would be best if these citations could end up as reliable secondaries instead of the LoCo blog and the NCJ which is running off a LoCo press release. I think what you did is great, I have been editing here for nine years and the "blob at the end" is really not easier than inline, and very confusing since so few pages use it. Ellin Beltz (talk) 19:39, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

I just got back home after a day out and about. Lemme take a couple to relax and I will see what I can find for an alternative to the Lost Coast Outpost reference. I only did a cursory glance at the pages when I updated the references, so my goof on that one. But I will look for a better source in a few. Take Care...Neutralhomer • Talk • 20:16, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

I replaced the Lost Coast Outpost reference with one from the San Francisco Chronicle. Same info, just a different source. I will check on the North Coast Journal sources and see if I can find the same information from the Eureka paper. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 22:20, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

I couldn't find a better source to replace the North Coast Journal one. But since it is backing up information for the San Francisco Chronicle, I think it will be OK. :) After dinner, I will work on finding some sources for the ones that need them. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 22:29, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

I made a couple of other edits. Dronkers left the station. Amy Berkowitz only has the occasional Sat/Sun morning show. Their webpage is a mess, most of it is way out of date, do be really careful about taking anything they say on their website as valid. The local real newspaper is the "Eureka Times-Standard", there used to also be a "Humboldt Beacon". The Crescent City "Tri-City Weekly" also occasionally has articles. But be very careful of the Journal, its a weekly advertising supplement, little better than a blog; they mostly run press releases and one big "story" a week. They're not very reliable. One perfect example; their editor claimed that "city officials" of one town up here were homophobic and created a huge witch hunt. What really happened? A volunteer firefighter shot off his mouth in public comment at city council. He's entitled to do that - it's his first amendment right to say stupid things. But the paper twisted it around to where the entire town needed new white sheets and cowls. So really truly be very careful with that paper, they only want to sell things. I saw your translator box after I re-added it to the lede. Perhaps you could leave the location of their studios? Cutten is only where their transmission tower (and hence their license) is located. They make big claims about being the Ferndale radio station, it seems a bit odd to leave out the town where they're really located (and you could send traveling bands 25 miles in the wrong direction if you don't mention the studios are not in Cutten). You're doing great, sorry if I've sounded at all cranky here. I'm not. It's been a tough week - we lost a dear friend and etc. Ellin Beltz (talk) 00:42, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Typically we don't list where the station's studios are, but in this case I made an exception. Since the studios are a pretty good ways away from the community of license and the tower itself. I did my best with the staff. I did source the station's DJ list, since I couldn't find any other list of station staff. I brought the blurb about the translator down into it's own paragraph within the lede. I removed some other information which is probably correct, but I don't have any sources for. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 01:19, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi Neutralhomer: Thank you, it's a lot tighter article now. And thanks for including the studio location it is really far from the tower. Cheers! Ellin Beltz (talk) 14:22, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Glad I could help. If you are every by their studios, and you have a moment, a picture of their studios would really tie the article together. :) Lemme know if I could be of further assistance. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 19:41, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

I didn't catch the end of your 00:42, 5 September post. My condolences on the loss of your friend. It is never easy when you lose a friend, I'm in that boat too. But they are always with you, even if you can't see them. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 19:43, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Reference errors on 5 September

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ArbCom elections are now open!

Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:47, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!

Ellin Beltz, I hope you have a Merry Christmas and hope your day is full of the true spirit of the day. Plus, good food, good family and good times. :) Have a Great Day! :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 01:25, 25 December 2015 (UTC) Spread the joy of Christmas by adding {{subst:User:Neutralhomer/MerryChristmas}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Arcata High School

Dear Ellin, I'm new to Wikipedia, so if I break protocol or guide lines please let me know. I have been updating the Arcata High School page. I added clubs, as well as other content. You removed the list of clubs, and replaced it with one sentence. I will be collecting club constitutions and adding them as citations. Please do not remove the list of clubs. Thank you. TheMilton (talk) 18:40, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

Greetings TheMilton: Unfortunately "club constitutions" are not reliable secondary sources, and at the High School level, the clubs of a school are non-notable without reliable secondary sources. Since you're new here, how about reading the guidelines before telling me not to remove out-of-scope content? Cheers! Ellin Beltz (talk) 17:47, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

I read the notability guidelines and they clearly state that notably guidelines do not apply with in articles, and that lists, even though individual item may be non-notable, if the list is notable, it stays. I'm in the process of getting an up to date list of all clubs from arcata high school. TheMilton (talk) 18:01, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Re: Daley's Ferry Post

You're welcome. Packerfansam (talk) 04:33, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Public domain with an NC license on Flickr

Ellin!

Could you watch these folks? [[:File:The Family Industry and Agriculture,WPA by Harry Sternberg, 1939.jpg|thumb|center|upright=1.9|US Treasury Section of Painting and Sculpture ("WPA") Post Office mural in Ambler, Pennsylvania]]

Quite obviously PD, but the photographer licensed it on Flickr as CC-by-NC.

Smallbones<sub>(smalltalk)</sub> 18:46, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Hi Smallbones: I like how you did the licensing on it. That rocks. It probably could also be flickr reviewed. I'm watching the image! Ellin Beltz (talk) 16:48, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Thanks! Smallbones<sub>(smalltalk)</sub> 16:58, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Could I ask for a reaction to User:Smallbones/1000 random results

I any case, I predict that you'll love the graph. Smallbones<sub>(smalltalk)</sub> 02:57, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

Really interesting stuff, I want to read it again for comment. HUGS!! Ellin Beltz (talk) 17:26, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

Questionable commons files

Hi Ellin. Two sets of files at Wikimedia commons look questionable to me, in terms of licensing. Would you please investigate? Thanks.Anythingyouwant (talk) 21:00, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

Hi Anythingyouwant: I took a look (listen), but it's hard to tell with music files; with today's programs and applications it's possible these are own work. I'd suggest you ask Binksternet who has a musical background. Cheers!! Ellin Beltz (talk) 05:48, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

I listened to a few that were obviously electronically synthesized performances, the stiff, mechanical kind you get when you put music notation into software which then plays the music on a synthesizer. Then I came across this one which is a full orchestra and a modern recording, one in which there is every likelihood of it being a copyrighted performance, not "own work". Binksternet (talk) 07:12, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks to you two. My impression is that there are a lot of those "every likelihood" files. Should we delete them?Anythingyouwant (talk) 14:22, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

Anythingyouwant : That last one was on Wikipedia, but certainly suggest it be removed. I apologize but I don't know how to get that started on en:wiki! Cheers! Ellin Beltz (talk) 14:46, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

It's on commons too.[5] I don't feel like I have the necessary expertise to review all these commons files that I referred to above. Can Binksternet please advise how to proceed? Thanks.Anythingyouwant (talk) 15:06, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

There's Village Pumps at both places, for Commons, go here. I don't have the expertise or the hearing to review any audio files, sorry! Ellin Beltz (talk) 18:23, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

Okay, no problem.Anythingyouwant (talk) 19:29, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

I have the experience necessary to judge whether each file is probably the guy's own work or a violation of copyright law. When I get the time I will go through each of these and submit the violations for deletion. Binksternet (talk) 20:12, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

Thank you, Binksternet, I appreciate your help with this. Cheers.Anythingyouwant (talk) 20:29, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

Well, it looks like I put 84 AfDs on that guy's talk page. Quite a lot, probably more than half of the files in those two lists were synthetic playback of music which could easily be his "own work", but 84 of them were obvious copyright violations, including full orchestra recordings, large vocal ensemble recordings, and historic voice recordings of composers and musicians who died decades ago. Binksternet (talk) 02:49, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

Good going, Bink.  :-)Anythingyouwant (talk) 03:06, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

Precious anniversary

Three years ago ...

fight with love
... you were recipient no. 436 of Precious, a prize of QAI!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:31, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

Mensagem abusiva???

Oi, vi suas mensagem na página de discussão de Jcb. Quanto às mensagens abusivas a que se refere, não é verdade, onde você viu uma mensagem abusiva minha? Além do mais, se alguém deixou alguma mensagem abusiva na sua página de discussão, esse alguém deve ser uma pessoa muito revoltada com que você anda fazendo: marca páginas para eliminação sem necessidade, foge do diálogo, compactua com erros dos outros, etc. Além disso, você tem demonstrado uma grande tirania e autoritarismo. Não é de o meu feitio xingar, ou usar palavras abusivas. Isso deve ter sido feito por alguém que sofreu o mesmo assédio por você, ou por outros e resolveu desabafar, porque cansou e desabafou com palavras inadequadas. Quanto ao branqueio da página de discussão, creio eu que deve ter sido a mesma pessoa, tentando me defender de maneira errada...mas não sei qual é o usuário que fez isso, pois pelo que parece, ele usou IP dinâmico. Algumas marcações também não fui eu quem as tirou, embora devia ter feito isso, porque eu estou ciente que as fotos são minhas e são originais. Agora, por favor, desbloqueie minha página de discussão, porque preciso trabalhar e você está cometendo um grande erro em mantê-la protegida. Você não pode agir com abuso no uso das ferramentas e nem pode agir com autoritarismo, mas antes prefira o diálogo. Alessandro SIL<sup>manda</sup> 11h12min. de 29 de março de 2016 (UTC)

Watchlist lists

List of User names on watchlist as of April 2014

User:206.208.133.77 , User:Adbar , User:Ammodramus , User:Asiaticus , User:Binksternet , User:Breakwater Studios , User:CFynn , User:Contributor321 , User:David Eppstein , User:Djembayz , User:Ebaize , User:Ellin Beltz , User:Ellin Beltz/DYKpage (talk | History) , User:Ellin Beltz/common.js (talk | History) , User:Ellin Beltz/sandbox (talk | History) , User:Ellin Beltz/sandbox-GhostTownsHumCo (talk | History) , User:Fred Bauder , User:Gandydancer , User:Gerda Arendt , User:GoingBatty , User:IronGargoyle , User:JNW , User:Jameslwoodward , User:Jllm06 , User:Joans707 , User:Josvebot , User:Jytdog , User:Kjuliano33 , User:KymKemp , User:Mandarax , User:Mike Cline , User:Mudwater , User:Norcalal , User:Northamerica1000 , User:Nytasi , User:Oyekuofun , User:Rothorpe , User:Smallbones , User:Spril4 , User:Tectonics1 , User:The Gnome , User:Uwatch310 , User:Warumwarum , User:Zyxw , User:Zzyzx11

User names on watchlist July 2014 (pre purge)

User:12.174.87.122 , User:139.153.163.45 , User:50.132.5.24 , User:69.80.14.235 , User:73.183.64.164 , User:74.194.91.231 , User:76.95.192.125 , User:98.208.31.224 , User:Asiaticus , User:Binksternet , User:Breakwater Studios , User:Buckyclown , User:Cmguy777 , User:David Eppstein , User:Djembayz , User:Dkriegls , User:Ellin Beltz , User:Ellin Beltz/DYKpage , User:Ellin Beltz/common.js , User:Ellin Beltz/sandbox , User:Ellin Beltz/sandbox-GhostTownsHumCo , User:Fred Bauder , User:Gandydancer , User:Gerda Arendt , User:GoingBatty , User:JNW , User:Jameslwoodward , User:Jllm06 , User:KymKemp , User:Mandarax , User:Mike Cline , User:Mudwater , User:Norcalal , User:Northamerica1000 , User:Nytasi , User:Oyekuofun , User:Pupfish , User:Reverend Mick man34 , User:Rothorpe , User:Ser Amantio di Nicolao , User:Smallbones , User:Spril4 , User:Tectonics1 , User:The Gnome , User:Uwatch310 , User:Warumwarum , User:Watarian , User:Xethxethxeth , User:Zyxw , User:Zzyzx11

User names on watchlist as of November 2014

User:A much better place, User:Auntof6, User:Binksternet, User:Biopics, User:Ctgeo, User:Denniss, User:DigbyDalton, User:Ellin Beltz/Archive 1, User:Ellin Beltz/Archive 2, User:Ellin Beltz/Archive 3, User:Ellin Beltz/Archive 4, User:Ellin Beltz/Archive 5, User:Ellin Beltz/Archive 6, User:Ellin Beltz/Archive 7, User:Ellin Beltz/Archive 8, User:Ellin Beltz/EditCounterOptIn.js, User:Ellin Beltz/To do1, User:Genaro1719, User:Gotnonames, User:Green Giant, User:Hedwig in Washington, User:INeverCry, User:Ies, User:Indeedous, User:Jameslwoodward, User:Jkadavoor, User:Joeshestak19, User:JuTa, User:Juggler2005, User:Krd, User:Magog the Ogre, User:Methos31, User:Natuur12, User:Neatsfoot, User:NoeHill, User:Palosirkka, User:Pandanane, User:Russavia, User:Ryulong, User:Saqib, User:Steinsplitter, User:Susannewmanfrogart, User:Tiptoety, User:Tony Webster, User:Xlc, User:Yann,