User talk:Flat Out/Archives/2013/July

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Photo: Julia Gillard

Flat Out,

In light of a good faith edit of mine being reversed (a change to Julia Gillard's photo), I make clear that the reason for changing the photo is because it is a more recent image of the former Prime Minister.

Is that too weak a reason to change the photo?


It's a good reason but if people keep changing the photo to a more recent one, it would change almost every day. It is best to go to the article's Talk page and propose your edit there and your reason for wanting the change. Best wishes Flat Out let's discuss it 10:36, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation

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Thank you for your recent submission to Articles for Creation. Your article submission has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. Please view your submission to see the comments left by the reviewer. You are welcome to edit the submission to address the issues raised, and resubmit if you feel they have been resolved.

A barnstar for you!

Special Barnstar Hires.png The Special Barnstar
Thank you for your reviewing on Leonard Lim page, or it will be deleted if it has no references. Before you edited the page, I do not know how to add proper references, but now I know how to do so. Thanks for your help! :) Jianhui67 (talk) 12:42, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
Thankyou Jianhui67, you are more than welcome. The article still has only one source so if you find any new references that are reliable then you should add them. Thanks again Flat Out let's discuss it 12:46, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

2013–14 Arsenal F.C. season - Squad information

thank you for fixing my terrible mistake - I am not good at this stuff. I was trying to make it a more 'easy to read) layout just like the ones on:


Could this be done??

It can be done but I'm no good at it sorry. Try to find another editor who has made these types of changes. Good luck Flat Out let's discuss it 13:37, 6 July 2013 (UTC)


Sure, i felt that movie was really copied from the movie I'm Sam , so edited that way. One cannot steal ideas from others right and earn money from it?

I'm sorry I don't know what you are referring to. Flat Out let's discuss it 13:54, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Edit approval on Fedor Emelianenko

I reverted an edit on Fedor Emelianenko by User talk: that you approved. The edit was factually incorrect, proven by Sherdog, which is the definitive source. Why did you approve that edit? Chris Troutman (talk) 02:32, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Hi Chris troutman and thanks for your question. Because that article has a level of protection added, edits from users who are not auto-confirmed must be reviewed by an editor who has reviewer rights. When reviewing an edit we check to see if the edit is vandalism or obviously in breach of wikipedia policy. Reviewers are not responsible for checking factual accuracy. I hope that clarifies things for you. Flat Out let's discuss it 02:43, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
I learn something everyday. I had to go back and re-read the policy. You are, in fact, correct. As a reviewer, I should have been more knowledgeable on this point. Most of the time I've requested protection, it has ended IP editing on the article in question. The few times I have approved changes I've always checked for veracity falsely assuming that such a check was requisite when it was not. Thanks for the work you do and for setting me straight. Chris Troutman (talk) 02:49, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
No worries Chris. Sometimes when I do a review I know the topic a little, or there is a grammar issues, poor spelling etc so I just revert based on what I know - but when it comes to edits I have no content knowledge on I just confirm there's no vandalism or obvious breach and move on. Best wishes Flat Out let's discuss it 02:52, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
So how do you propose we resolve this problem? There's another instance where the version you approved was not obvious vandalism but was factually incorrect. I'm certain the IP that made the edit knew exactly what they were doing, and I have warned them about vandalism. Your acceptance of the edit resulted in this factual error going live. Should we request a higher level of protection on this article? Chris Troutman (talk) 16:59, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Splitting the article

Hi there... thanks for your reply. Originally I had the article in even more sections, with a section about Charlese Allen's grandfather and a section about Matthew Shaw's father. I removed those and submitted new articles (declined too!) and then the comment about splitting them disappeared so I didn't think that was a problem any longer. Is it? Would greatly appreciate some help! Kellylieberman (talk) 09:41, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Just seen your other message... god this is so confusing! Am I posting in the right place?!! Would really love your help... thank you. Kellylieberman (talk) 09:44, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

It's ok here is perfect :) When you write about a band, you have to try and keep the band the focus as much as possible and write the article keeping in mind that it should really be a description of a timeline, e.g how they formed, who the members are, line-up changes, recordings, tours and so on. See AC/DC and note there are no sections on the band members per se, but there are separate articles on the band members such as Bon Scott. The timeline for your article is short so the article will be too :) Flat Out let's discuss it 09:48, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Ok. It was just that I didn't think an article on either of them would be accepted as on their own they're not 'notable'. So shall I delete all the biography parts as a start? Kellylieberman (talk) 09:54, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Copy them somewhere for future reference and we can look at their individual notability later. Flat Out let's discuss it 09:56, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
Ok, I'll do that now Kellylieberman (talk) 10:22, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
Ok, I've done that. How's it looking now? Was wondering about The Big Audition section, whether to delete that too, or just some edits? Kellylieberman (talk) 10:27, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
I'm going to make a couple of changes to the structure and then we can see what it needs next. Flat Out let's discuss it 10:29, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
Ok, thanks so much for your help.Kellylieberman (talk) 10:32, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
I've seen the changes... brilliant! Thank you so much. What now?Kellylieberman (talk) 10:41, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
OK, the first paragraph is the lead. It summarises the article. The other headings can change but I think it's probably a good structure to work with. Next we need to look at the references and how they are formatted. Flat Out let's discuss it 10:43, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Ok. Looks fine to me :) Let me know what else I can do. You seem to be doing all the work here!Kellylieberman (talk) 10:47, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Are you using Visual Editor or the traditional edit window? Flat Out let's discuss it 10:51, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Just the traditional edit window... I think! I'm on a Mac, using Safari, and I just click edit. Not very technical I'm afraid! (talk) 10:53, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Same here. When you open the edit window, up the top is the menu "Advanced" "Special Characters" "Help" "Cite" can you see that? Flat Out let's discuss it 10:56, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Yep, I can see that Kellylieberman (talk) 10:57, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Click on "Cite" and a box should appear on the top menu area to the left "templates" Flat Out let's discuss it 11:00, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Yes I see that. Templates is a drop down box Kellylieberman (talk) 11:02, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

OK thats what I used to change the first reference to the "cite web" format. Have a play with that Flat Out let's discuss it 11:03, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Oh dear... so sorry, I'm confused! I see what you have done but I can't work out how to fill in the form that pops up... what to put where. For instance the next reference is [1] Can you please talk me through what I put in each section. Sorry to be dense! Once you show me though I'll understand, I'm a quick learner! Kellylieberman (talk) 11:12, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

I have done reference [1] so I'll move onto [2]. I copy the url that you used and I open that page so i can see the "Title," the day the source was written "Work" who publishes the site 'Publisher" the name of the person who wrote the article if its there, "Last" "First" and then give the reference a name "Reference Name" (which you already did). Once I 've filled in what I can I save that box (I think its "Insert" that you click to save. Flat Out let's discuss it 11:20, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

I've done the second reference but it doesn't look the same as yours, must have put things in the wrong boxes Kellylieberman (talk) 11:17, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

I'll have a look Flat Out let's discuss it 11:20, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

I've just redone it. I copied the text from yours and replaced the relevant bits. Don't like that box! Is that better? Kellylieberman (talk) 11:22, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Looks great. Now you can do all the others hahaha. Remember you only do the full citation once for each source and then just use <ref name=NAME/> to repeat it. Flat Out let's discuss it

I know! Right I'll get on with that in a bit. Got to go now and do some work! Been playing hooky! Thank you so much for your help. If I post again in this section later on can we pick up where we left off? You've been so helpful I'd like to continue with you if that's ok. :)Kellylieberman (talk) 11:35, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Yes happy to help. If you look at my user page you can check the time it is where I am, I am online between 10 am and 11pm. Flat Out let's discuss it 11:40, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Ah you're in Melbourne! I visited there a couple of years ago. Loved it, much preferred it to Sydney... more culture, music and cafe society! Speak later. Thanks again. Kellylieberman (talk) 11:49, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Yes Melbourne has it over Sydney :) Where are you located? It's 11.30pm so I'm off to bed, There are some unreliable sources that I removed from the article and a few gaps in the article need a source. Flat Out let's discuss it 13:35, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

I'm in the North of England. I have finished editing all the citations... head is mashed... and then I come here to see your last message! So I've probably put back the sources you think are unreliable! Sorry. Please will you have a look again and tell me which sources are unreliable. I think it might be their interviews on the radio. I have the recordings but they are not published on the web. Let me know anyway. Sleep well! Kellylieberman (talk) 15:30, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

PS: Before you delete any citations please can you let me know which ones they are as I might have a replacement url... just so that I don't lose the location of where they should be placed! I think I have accidentally submitted it for review again as well, although I didn't press the submit button, just the save... but it's showing as current in the list Kellylieberman (talk) 16:20, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Yes no problem I'll have a good look at it today. Flat Out let's discuss it 23:28, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your message. Glad we near to getting it completed! Let me know what to do next. I've not been around as I've been away on holiday... still am actually! Kellylieberman (talk) 21:38, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

We need to find more reliable sources. Some of the information in Bobby and Jemima is supported by sources written by members of the band. News sources are always good and I am now searching for any that might exist. Flat Out let's discuss it 04:11, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
OK no news that I can find, but her eis one for there booking at Blackpool Music Festival, there's also NME, Rock the Dead Donkey Festival but nothing that screans notability. They really need a newspaper to interview them :) The current references from are the ones we really need to either replace or remove. Flat Out let's discuss it 04:21, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for looking. I'm still on holiday but I'll do some more research when I get home. There's no newspaper article on them that I know of as they are a new band but I'll keep looking. They previously were going under the name 'Charlese'. A lot of the information I got from radio interviews which I recorded but they're not published online anywhere. What do you do in that instance? Or are those references ok?

No they have to be verifiable and if no-one can heck tem they aren't any good Flat Out let's discuss it 11:26, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Also, please can you explain to me why there is a problem with things written by band members. Surely there is no better source than from the horses mouth!

Yes but they can say anything so they are not independent. Primary sources can be OK in some instances - See reliable sources. Flat Out let's discuss it 11:26, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Any newspaper article only regurgitates what the band tells them so why is that more reliable?

That can be true but in this instance that would be a good thing because someone other than the band would be publishing it. Flat Out let's discuss it 11:26, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Also I see that you cannot use YouTube video references which are the ones from but again... when the evidence is from a video, why is that not considered reliable? Can you use Facebook... there's some stuff on their FB page Kellylieberman (talk) 11:20, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Facebook is self-published so that's no good, youtube I need to check. Flat Out let's discuss it 11:26, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Just seen that they're supporting Alexander O'Neal this week but it's on their website so presumably that can't be used either although it's on Songkick too. I really don't understand why references from the band's own material can't be used as for example with regard to where they got the name... there's only them that know the story behind that. That's only written about by them on Facebook and they spoke about it in radio interviews, which aren't published. What can I do in that instance? Be interested to see what you find out about youtube but I tried to add references before and they were flagged up as not being allowed which is why I used the page on Charlese's website It used to be linked to another page about their history, that's disappeared but they left that one up, fortunately. It's all very frustrating! If I was to email them, explain the situation and ask them to answer questions about the things that need better sources, and then publish it on a blog... would that be any good?! Getting in trouble now from other half... must go! Kellylieberman (talk) 12:10, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Recent edits

the information i added to glossop was correct, it was links to the local media. I believe the person who is involved with Glossop Gaze tte and glossop rad io removed his competitors (despite them being on there for years) i have screen shots to show this. my information was correct and i updated information on media that i have no relationship with. Therefore by removing it the information left on wikipedia is factually incorrect.

Funny how no one took any action when he deleted all those other publications!

i give up, this is meant to be "open to all" yet when i correct things i am jumped on, no one has taken the effort to check what i hav'hte added. so i'll leave you to it. Wikipedia has become a joke, and you guys are part of the cause!

User:MDUK, I did look at your edits very carefully. What you are adding are spam links and I have cautioned you to be careful. If you have your heart set on insulting other editors then it's probably best that you don't edit. If you want to learn how to contribute to a positive editing community I am more than happy to help you. Best wishes Flat Out let's discuss it 12:03, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Your Reverts of My Edits to the Gay Porn Article

You wanted a "source," so I posted a link to a gay porn website, and someone reverted it again. I guess some sources are better than others.  :)John Paul Parks (talk) 19:39, 7 July 2013 (UTC) John Paul Parks

It's reasonable that if you are making claims about the efficacy of condoms that you provide a supporting reference, but probably not a porn website :) Flat Out let's discuss it 22:17, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
Some sources are better than others. A porn video website is a primary source, not independent, and a promotional, commercial one as well. One website is not a representative sample of a genre. Far better would a published analysis by a recognized expert in safe sex practices, that might analyze the impact of such videos on real world sexual practices, or at least on the community of actors. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 23:42, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
Putting a link to a commercial website looks a lot like spamming the webpage, even if you meant to use the URL as a primary source. There are numerous periodicals that discuss LGBTQI2-S issues. Even The Village Voice could be considered a secondary source. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and like any encyclopedia, it is built on actual research. You can't just post something you heard about because you thought it should be included. Chris Troutman (talk) 00:22, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for the information. I will see what I can find. The point I am trying to make is that, given all else that goes on in the typical gay porn video, whether anyone is wearing a condom is as effective as Adam and Eve found the fig leaf to be in the Garden of Eden.John Paul Parks (talk) 03:18, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
Context is very important. If you look at say, transmission of HIV via receptive anal sex, the condom is highly effective whereas for protection against genital herpes it is far less so. Flat Out let's discuss it 03:22, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Reliable Sources Noticeboard

This is to inform all interested editors that there is a discussion underway at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Roy Maloy and the Record Holders Republic regarding one of the references in the article Roy Maloy. Input from all interested editors is invited. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 20:47, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Congratulations from STiki!

Barnstar of Reversion Hires.png
The Anti-Vandalism + STiki Barnstar
STiki logo.png

Congratulations, Flat Out! You're receiving this barnstar because you recently crossed the 1,000 classification threshold using STiki. We thank you both for your contributions to Wikipedia at-large and your use of the tool. We hope you continue your ascent up the leaderboard and stay in touch at the talk page. Thank you and keep up the good work! West.andrew.g (developer) and -- (T) Numbermaniac (C) 05:28, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Numbermaniac I am more than happy to help out on vandalism. Best wishes Flat Out let's discuss it 05:30, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
You're welcome :). The list is updated daily at WP:STIKI/M... I just thought I'd hand out the awards :) -- (T) Numbermaniac (C) 05:32, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Just to drop a note...

Hello! I just want to point out, did you ever notice that sometimes you're not using the wiki links when you can? Nearly anything that begins with can be wiki linked. Just saying. Thanks! -- (T) Numbermaniac (C) 05:43, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the message, I do know and I need to stop being so lazy now that someone else has noticed :) Flat Out let's discuss it 05:51, 8 July 2013 (UTC)


Hi Flat Out, Thanks for the hint, why is the QMS not notable? For a company in this industry it is really relevant to work within this standards. MichelleLily14 (talk) 13:20, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Hi MichelleLily14. The article can't just be a profile of the company, it has to be fully referenced with independent and reliable sources. Unless gaining ISO certification was notable enough that a newspaper or another source wrote about it, it can't be included. Essentially anything that doesn't have a reliable source won't be able to stay. Let me know if you need any help, I'm more than happy to help. Flat Out let's discuss it 23:27, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
Hi Flat Out nahh, i got that. So thanks alot for your help. There was recently a short video about our company on n-tv. We uploaded it on | youtube. Can I use it as reference?. MichelleLily14 (talk) 07:27, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

AIV reports

The user's edits are to the Sandbox, which is the location for testing. I'm not sure why the user's edits to the Sandbox were considered vandalism worth warning for, since that's where the warning messages ask them to direct test edits. SpencerT♦C 02:44, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

I am referring to the editor that made the false report, and he has been edit warring on sandbox and leaving insults on the page. Flat Out let's discuss it 02:46, 9 July 2013 (UTC)


Hello, Flat Out!

Thank you so much for your response! I would love your assistance with this. I have much of the article written in my sandbox (though I'm not sure if other users can see that) and I'd be happy to share that with you. The articles I've found come mostly from press releases and articles. Chick in a TARDIS (talk) 16:44, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Chick in a TARDIS, I have moved the article into my userspace to avoid you being blocked for writing a promotional page. The link is on your talk page and you'll be able to edit the article at any time. I'll have a look at it tomorrow my time. Flat Out let's discuss it 16:48, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Recent conversation

Flat Out, Thanks again for expressing your concerns. After investigating, I declined the request though I tried to be as encouraging as possible. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 16:18, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

You're more than welcome, we all have to pick our battles. Flat Out let's discuss it 16:21, 11 July 2013 (UTC)


Responding to your query at AIV here, Wikipedia:Vandalism states that "Vandalism is any addition, removal, or change of content in a deliberate attempt to compromise the integrity of Wikipedia." In the area of genre disputes, that is information that needs to be resolved with references or a talk page discussion. I don't see references for any of the genres in the article, so when I see the history of the article here, which is basically reverts back and forth, this looks more to me like an edit war than vandalism to the article. Hence why I suggested reporting it to Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring, but it appears as though another editor blocked for violating the 3 revert rule just by looking at the AIV report. SpencerT♦C 02:28, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, and you're right. Flat Out let's discuss it
(edit conflict) Also, now taking a closer look at this user's contribs I didn't realize the history of genre warring was so prolonged and persistent. AIV is probably fine for future reports like this. When I made the comment on the report, I looked at the user's recent contribs, which were all to that one article so I thought dispute. SpencerT♦C 02:31, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
Thanks again and for taking the time to clarify. Much appreciated Flat Out let's discuss it 02:33, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

please first analyse the deleted content before reverting it. if you are in support of that content, then god bless you — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 16:44, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

IRC office hours for wiki-mentors and Snuggle users

Hi. We're organizing an office hours session with the Teahouse to bring in mentors from across the wiki to try out Snuggle and discuss it's potential to support mentorship broadly. The Snuggle team would appreciate it if you would come and participate in the discussion. We'll be having it in #wikimedia-officeconnect on Wed. July 17th @ 1600 UTC. See the agenda for more info. --EpochFail(talkwork), Technical 13 (talk), TheOriginalSoni (talk) 17:27, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the invite Technical 13. 1600 UTC seems to be 2 am in Melbourne AU which I can't do. I am interested in Snuggle and will make myself familiar with it. Please keep me in the loop, Flat Out let's discuss it 02:33, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Saint Francis Veterinary Center

I went to comment on this page I felt strongly about and needed to register to do so. I've used the Wiki experience often and never had a need to comment/feedback before, until now. Yes, I feel strongly about the subject and the Saint Francis Veterinary Center, because I've seen what it provides to the community and to pets of all types. I'm someone who has seen the cutting edge treatment of this facility up close and personal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs) 05:54, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

JTMTech I believe you are a sockpuppet and have opened an investigation. Either way you have a conflict of interest. Flat Out let's discuss it 09:55, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Please note down my reference link

Hi, to support my previous change here, please look at these reference links, where i got those information.

so, many evidence are available in addition to above links. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 11:10, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

(User: you need to cite sources when you make the edit. Flat Out let's discuss it 11:20, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

imp message

please first analyse the deleted content before reverting it. if you are in support of that content, then god bless you — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 16:45, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, I have no idea what you are referring to. If you could explain which edit you are referring to I'd be happy to explain anything I've done. Flat Out let's discuss it 02:24, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Sir im referring to dayalbagh wikipedia homepage which is being vandalized by few mischief makers who time and again insert malicious matter for defaming the place. They are not refraining from posting the content repeatedly. Please also do guide me as to how can i prevent them from inserting the irrelevant matter on the above mentioned page — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 16:47, 13 July 2013 (UTC) You can't stop them. The information is relevant and referenced and is perfectly reasonable. Stop deleting it or you will have your account blocked. Flat Out let's discuss it 16:50, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

The information maybe correct bot it is most certainly not suitable to be included on the refers to an untoward incident whereas the page simply shares basic information about the pilgrim place. (talk) 17:04, 13 July 2013 (UTC) Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and notable information that is reliably sourced can, and will, be included. You can't censor the parts that you don't like. Flat Out let's discuss it 17:07, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Your Editing

Hello Flat Out, Argento1985 has reported to me that you have removed some of his warnings from your talk page. Is there than issue here? --JustBerry (talk) 14:01, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Hi JustBerry, yes there is an issue with that editor using twinkle to give inappropriate warnings, such as at User talk:Kokoskokou. I also tried to help them out on an AIV they did incorrectly but they don't seem to understand. Best wishes Flat Out let's discuss it 14:06, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
Okay, do you have particular examples (with links)? --JustBerry (talk) 14:07, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
Here's one to start, I'll grab a couple more shortly when I've put my son back to bed. Flat Out let's discuss it 14:09, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
And another. Flat Out let's discuss it 14:11, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
Okay, I have put a stern warning here: Let me know if anything else happens. --JustBerry (talk) 14:17, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, would you consider removing the warning he have at User talk:Kokoskokou because he went straight to level 4 and put in an AIV report. Best wishes Flat Out let's discuss it 14:20, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
Done, thanks for letting me know. That was highly inappropriate for at least two reasons: 1. No (solid) evidence 2. Warning level hop --JustBerry (talk) 14:22, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
I received your thanks. No problem, any time. --JustBerry (talk) 14:26, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
Please leave me a message on my talk page if you need anything else. I will be un-watching this page. --JustBerry (talk) 14:48, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Barnstar of Reversion Hires.png The Anti-Vandalism Barnstar
For doing a great job at fighting vandalism on Wikipedia. AgraNewsObserver (talk) 14:41, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
Thanks AgraNewsObserver you are very kind. Keep up the quality editing and come see me any time ! Flat Out let's discuss it 14:45, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

image copyright

Hey Flat Out, I'm very new to Wiki, but I've written permission from the photograph to use this photograph on all web-related platforms (like the Alice James Books website. Any ideas how to make the permission more transparent?

File:Photo Credit Star Black.jpg — Preceding unsigned comment added by Poetry2013 (talkcontribs) 16:39, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

You need to fill out the copyright information properly on the images you uploaded at wiki commons, because you falsely claimed you took the photo. Flat Out let's discuss it 16:42, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Asmym xix

Hi! You recently sent me a message complaining about some of my edits. Here are my answers: 1.)EDIT SUMMARIES ARE PURELY OPTIONAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 2.)I usually make small edits that don't require citations. Kind Regards, Asmym xix (talk) 18:09, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Hi Asmym xix I wasn't complaining about your edits, I said that I noticed you weren't using edit summaries or citations and offered to help you if you were having trouble. I also left you a link in case you needed it. The reason I did this is because you had posted somewhere that you weren't using citations because you didn't know how. Best wishes Flat Out let's discuss it 23:11, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
Yes, edit summaries are not mandatory but they are a best practice. Other editors will remind you to follow best practices. Why aren't you using edit summaries?
WP:CITE doesn't leave room for "small edits that don't require citations." You tend to add sentences that should have citations. What you may think is common knowledge is not necessarily.
Nine times out of ten, Asmym xix, if Flat Out tells you to rethink what you're doing, you should start thinking about what you're doing. If you think Wikipedia is a website you can edit how you like without regard to our policies and guidelines, you are mistaken. Chris Troutman (talk) 18:19, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
Hi Chris, I just noticed that we started here about the same time. Thanks for helping out while I was asleep and drop by my talk page anytime. Flat Out let's discuss it 23:58, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
Sure thing. Rack up those centijimbos. Chris Troutman (talk) 00:10, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
I got a very unfriendly response on the OPs talk page when I tried to explain some behavioral norms. The user goes to the Teahouse for help and then gets bent out of shape when a Teahouse host offers suggestions. So it goes. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 01:13, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
I should have started with a friendly greeting, it almost always works. I didn't do it twice last night and both times ended in tears. Live and learn :) Flat Out let's discuss it 02:46, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
We need to make a good faith effort to welcome, assist and help to acculturate every new editor we run across. But let's face it, a significant percentage are kooks, cranks, POV pushers, those with massive shoulder chips, and others with psychological and personality issues that make it impossible for them to become productive, collaborative contributors. It is always a happy day for me, Flat Out, when an initial encounter leads to ongoing collaboration with a genuine encyclopedist. You are among them. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 03:15, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Geocentric Judaism

Hi, i got a message form you saying my edit on geocentricisim was deleted, please could you explain my error, and how i or you could remedy it, thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Decrypt Mystic (talkcontribs) 06:42, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Hi Decrypt Mystic and thanks for your question. In the edits you made, you linked to wikipedia pages using the full url and the words you wanted to link, inside [ ]. You need to use a wikilink instead. For example, instead of [ my talk page] you would use [[User talk:Flat Out|my talk page]]. If you need further help with this please let me know Flat Out let's discuss it 06:52, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

ok, thank you, i'm new to wikipedia, i'll try again, please let me know if i get it wrong again. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Decrypt Mystic (talkcontribs) 07:08, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Can I suggest Decrypt Mystic, that you practice in your sandbox until you think you have it right. I'm happy to check on anything before you take it to a live article. Just a suggestion. Flat Out let's discuss it 07:12, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

I've already corrected it. But yes for the future. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Decrypt Mystic (talkcontribs) 07:14, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks and hers's more info

Thanks for editing it and fixing some issues. here's a link which can be helpful in citation

User:Jatin0194 yes that is a good one. Do you know how to insert a reference as an inline citation? Flat Out let's discuss it 11:51, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

A Barnstar For You

Original Barnstar.png The Original Barnstar
For being so good so early. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 11:46, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, you are too kind. Flat Out let's discuss it 11:52, 14 July 2013 (UTC)


no... i am new to this... That's the reason there were some errors in the first place, please add it as citation and tell me what else you need to avoid deletion of this page. thanks a lot for help. I'll understand the coding after you add that citation. --Jatin0194 (talk) 12:31, 14 July 2013 (UTC)Jatin0194

May I help?
References go like this:
Rabbits are cute.<ref></ref>
They eat carrots.<ref></ref>
Paste this at the bottom of the article:
  1. ^ Interview & Featured Song John Gillmore Show BBC Radio Lancashire 01 November 2011
Click save and all the references will automatically get listed at the bottom. Easy peasy. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 12:38, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
Sorry, dumped my clipboard by mistake. Jatin0194 has bare urls down pat but needs to learn cite web. I'll be back when thrilling cricket match is finished. Flat Out let's discuss it
Ah, cite web. A thousand pardons. I only run refinks and leave it at that. I'll leave it up to you then. Cheers, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 12:49, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for my first thank you note

Thanks for my first thank you note. and check out the Jesse Glick page now, i added some more valid references and let me know, what else you need to make this page work. :D --Jatin0194 (talk) 14:20, 14 July 2013 (UTC)Jatin0194

4 months

Did you really start only 4 months ago? I'm impressed. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 11:25, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your kind words, Anna - yes 4 months ago at the tender age of 47 :) - I have learnt from some wonderful editors such as yourself. I modelled myself on Cullen when I first arrived so even though I don't know as much as I would like a civil approach usually makes up for my many mistakes. Another editor that I watched closely was Auric and it now occurs to me I haven't seem them around of late. Anyway, thanks for dropping by and keep up your great work as an admin. Best wishes Flat Out let's discuss it 11:37, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
Ah, Cullen, yes. I thought I saw something very Cullenesque in your signature. :) Well, kudos to Cullen and to you! Anna Frodesiak (talk) 11:45, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
While you're here I have noticed admin are a bit light-on at times. If there is anything I can do of a non-admin nature to help out just point me in the right direction and I'll roll my sleeves up. Flat Out let's discuss it 11:49, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
When you say "light-on", does that mean "busy" or "fully-occupied"? I've never heard that term before. If so, that's very kind of you, but be careful, I will set you to work. Smile.svgSmile.svgSmile.svg Anna Frodesiak (talk) 12:00, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
"Light-on" or "Flat Out Like a Lizard Drinking" are both Australianisms that apply - admin seem to have their hands full- would be the closest similar phrase I can think of. I am happy to help out. Flat Out let's discuss it 12:05, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

A mission

Okay, fine. :) I'll tell you what. Whenever someone gives me something to do, I immediately dread it and recoil. So, here are a couple of fun things. That way you can do one and it will only take a few minutes then bail out if you like. The first thing is not too important. But the second is actually really worthwhile because it leads to product being created, and that's what this whole thing is about. If you're more interested in adminish stuff, there are tasks out there that are more serious. Do let me know what your cup of tea is.

Oh, I just want the power to block pesky rabbits. Flat Out let's discuss it 04:01, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
  1. Fill in a single "Notes" cell at List of citrus fruits.
  2. Add a single item of your choosing to Wikipedia:Requested articles/Images. (The bug's aren't selling and the list is getting a little bald.) The world's your oyster on this one. An animal? A thing? A place? A person? You pick. Where to get images? That's the fun part. It's like a treasure hunt. They're all over enwp. You just have to be a clever bunny. :) If you find a good one, someone will pick it up and make it into an article right away.

Here's the junk:

|[[File:BUNNYJPG|200px]]<br />
|{{find sources|NAME}}<br />
|<!--Image:BUNNYJPG|[[BUNNY]]<br /><small>({{find sources|BUNNY}})</small>-->

Good luck, my friend. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 12:29, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, I tried number 2 but when I added the image it redirected to an existing article :) I'll have a go tomorrow, it's midnight here and I have an early start for work tomorrow. Flat Out let's discuss it 14:04, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
OK, number 2 is complete. I'll add some references (there are plenty) to that shortly and if no-one picks it up I'll create the article myself. Flat Out let's discuss it 02:38, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
And 1 is complete. Now I have a company to run so better do some work ! Flat Out let's discuss it
Thank you. Good pick.
If you ever come across a colleague who is looking for something a little different, suggest that they do what you did, find and add an entry.
If you ever come across a new editor who doesn't quite have a direction, and may be finding himself slipping into social networking, point him toward that page. I've been doing the latter for ages and it's great. A lot of these were created by newcomers who would otherwise have spent hours working on their userpages.
Best wishes and thanks again. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:00, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
No problem, I wasn't aware of these and will use this more often. I just need to take some photos of historical Melbourne landmarks. Flat Out let's discuss it 03:03, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
Yes. It's a great little article factory, and perfect for the newcomers.
Thanks again for the details on Citrus glauca. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:56, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Sorry for that

Sorry for that. It won't happen again. Tell me, what else do you need to make this page work Jesse Glick. I have added some more citations. and one more question can i edit these things on my user talk page or it is also considered vandalism --Jatin0194 (talk) 01:56, 15 July 2013 (UTC)Jatin0194

Jatin0194 I don't think there is much else you can do at this stage as there are not enough reliable sources available to indicate that Jesse Glick meets notability guidelines. My advice would be to make a copy of this article in your userspace to work on as it is likely the article will be nominated for deletion. As a word of asdvice, its is a bad idea to write articles on a subject where you have a conflict of interest Flat Out let's discuss it 01:59, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

more ciatations and reliable sources

I have added more citations and reliable sources to the page Jesse Glick. Here are some more links that i found on web as reliable sources but couldn't decide where to put as reference.

and here is the picture of Jesse with Winter Katia on a reliable source and this page is no more orphan and categories have been added, how to remove the error messages of that. --Jatin0194 (talk) 13:26, 15 July 2013 (UTC)Jatin0194


And I wanted to ask you if I can steal this: Ah, Cullen, yes. I thought I saw something very Cullenesque in your signature. :) Well, kudos to Cullen and to you! Anna Frodesiak (talk) 11:45, 14 July 2013 (UTC) to use it in my Favourite quotes in my user page??. Miss Bono [zootalk] 13:39, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

for you Miss Bono, how could I say no?. Flat Out let's discuss it 13:52, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
Do you know me?? :) Miss Bono [zootalk] 13:57, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
Yes, from Teahouse and Jim's talk page Flat Out let's discuss it 13:59, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
Oh... Jackof Oz was right: You are never alone in Wikipedia :D Miss Bono [zootalk] 14:00, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for lending me the quote ;) Miss Bono [zootalk] 14:02, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
you are very welcome Flat Out let's discuss it 14:05, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
I won't let any talkbacks this time (they are very annoying)... but... you have message on Anna's :P Miss Bono [zootalk] 14:06, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Asking whether do I fit for rollback rights

Hi, Flat Out. I'm asking you whether I'm eligible to be a rollbacker? I'm currently reverting vandalism with Twinkle, and warning vandals. I'm also an administrator in Candy Crush Saga wiki and also another rollbacker in Empires & Allies wiki (I'm inactive there as the game as closed down). I'm very keen in reverting vandalism. Jianhui67 (talk) 13:29, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

I can't see what admin see when they assess your request, but with only 173 edits I don't think they will give it to you just yet. I use TW and I have rollback rights and really there isn't much difference. Keep working on vandalism though we need all the help we can get :) Flat Out let's discuss it 13:35, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
Well how many edits did you do to get rollback rights? I had editing experience when I first settled at Empires & Allies Wiki. I learned very fast and knew about how to edit and add templates. Then I became a rollbacker there. Because the game had closed down, I went to Candy Crush Saga Wiki. From there, I became an admin in that wiki. I had 2000+ edits in total from the 2 wikis and Wikipedia.

Jianhui67 (talk) 15:37, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

I had about 3,000 but it really depends on how many correct reverts you have done. You can request rollback at Wikipedia:Requests_for_permissions/Rollback and you can also view other decisions. Flat Out let's discuss it 21:41, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
Can you help me to count how many correct reverts I did currently? Thanks. Jianhui67 (talk) 11:06, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
I count 45 but a lot of them are good faith reverts, not vandalism. Flat Out let's discuss it 11:14, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
Well I am very busy with secondary school life and barely had time to log on to Wikipedia. But I'm currently using the mobile view of Wikipedia. I hope to get rollback rights soon. I'm a responsible user and I'll use my rights properly. That's how I got admin and rollback rights in the 2 wikis. Jianhui67 (talk) 12:53, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
Feel free to apply when you think you are ready, I have no authority in the matter Flat Out let's discuss it 13:02, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
Blatant vandalism is harder to find than good faith edits even though they are common. Jianhui67 (talk) 14:15, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Accepting revisions

Hi Flat Out, when accepting revisions, be very careful. The one you accepted listed Michael ballack as a notable player in the FC Bayern Munich article. Two problems with that, his surname is of course spelled with a capital B and the spelling used by the IP just resutled in a redlink. Secondly, he is not a member of the Hall of fame, which is the inclusion criteria. Members can be viewed here. Keep well, Calistemon (talk) 11:28, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for raising this with me. I did miss the lowercase on Ballack, however when addressing pending changes, as you are aware, reviewers check to see if the edit is vandalism or obviously in breach of wikipedia policy rather than taking responsibility for checking factual accuracy. I hope that clarifies things for you. Flat Out let's discuss it 11:34, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
It does, I wasn't aware of the later. I was about to reject the revision when you beat me by seconds and accepted it. I have removed the lower case ballack from the list again. Calistemon (talk) 11:42, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
It helps when you have content knowledge :) Best wishes Flat Out let's discuss it 11:45, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

St Patrick's College, East Melbourne

Sold! That was fast. Care to add another? :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:12, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

I'll walk in when all the work is done on that topic and steal the glory ;) Actually I have topics but no images, though I'm working on it. Flat Out let's discuss it 01:19, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
I know how to find images at commons, but what is the directory where enwp images are located? Flat Out let's discuss it 01:25, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
[1] and select only "file". Anna Frodesiak (talk) 02:02, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
Thanks Flat Out let's discuss it 02:13, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

The Big One (NASCAR)

I have commenced a discussion re: notability on this article's talk page and would value input from other's who watch my page and are so-inclined. Flat Out let's discuss it 09:21, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

FAC comment

Hi. If it's no bother, would you like to voice your support/oppose and comment at my FA nomination of Confusion (album)? It's a relatively short article to review. If not, feel free to ignore this message. Dan56 (talk) 09:24, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Happy to, but I've never done it before. Are there criteria/checklist to review against? Flat Out let's discuss it
Yes, at WP:FACR. Dan56 (talk) 09:41, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, I'll refer to that if I get any challenges. Good work on that article I really enjoyed it. Flat Out let's discuss it 09:47, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 17 July 2013

Re: Keith Johnson (author)

Hello Flat Out,

Just to let you know that I have left a message for you on the "Talk" page for "Keith Johnson (author)" ... I hope that is okay ... apologies if I have put it in the wrong place !

It would be great if I/we could get Keith Johnson's page into a state where it doesn't have any warnings - hopefully it's possible with your help - so thanks in advance for any advice you are able to offer.

Best wishes, Caltheon — Preceding unsigned comment added by Caltheon (talkcontribs) 11:06, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Caltheon I am happy to help but the article needs to be trimmed right back to clear statement of facts that are supported with reliable sources. Let me know what you think. Flat Out let's discuss it 11:10, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Chrissy Amphlett

Hi It is well known that Chrissy was in a band in 1971, here is just one link from Australian web site Milesago and Chrissy was in the same class as Denis Walter as she informs us on the following audio recording — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 12:05, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Hi (User:, thanks for raising this. You put the information in the lede, which is a summary of the article. I don't have an issue with the content, just the placement. If it's not in the body of the article it shouldn't be in the lede. Best wishes Flat Out let's discuss it 12:09, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
Hi, Chrissy in her own words clearly acknowledges with Denis that they were in the same class in this audio. She also makes clear reference to Shane Dowling. Please listen to the audio, it is in the first 25 seconds. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Showmewhere (talkcontribs) 12:40, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
I accept that, but how is that a reliable source for her DOB/Age? Flat Out let's discuss it 12:43, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Hi Flat Out, Accept your edits however I too sat in that classroom with Christine, Denis and Shane. I won't edit this page again until I get my hands on a document from an old school friend. That document is the enrollment for our Primary School, Roslyn Park Belmont. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Showmewhere (talkcontribs) 06:30, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Showmewhere you may want to read conflict if interest before you go too far. Flat Out let's discuss it 10:12, 21 July 2013 (UTC)


Hi How can I fix my page (A Hereford Beefstouw) so it doesnt have to be deleted? Kuba.greenland (talk) 14:01, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Hi , the article needs reliable sources to indicate it meets the standard for companies. The only reference you have is the company website which is not a reliable source and doesn't indicate that the company is notable in any way. Flat Out let's discuss it 14:06, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
How many references and from what websites? I just added two. Kuba.greenland (talk) 14:11, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
Kuba.greenland Perhaps this explanation will help you. Flat Out let's discuss it 14:15, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
ok thanks a lot. So when Ive gotten the sources what can i do to stop the page from being deleted?

antonio papasso images

Hi, i added not in the right way the images in the page "Antonio Papasso". Can you help me to do it? I do not understand how to put all the images on the same line (section "images").

Thank you

volso — Preceding unsigned comment added by Volso (talkcontribs) 14:36, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Hi Volso and thanks for your question. You appear to have done everything correctly, but you added nowiki tags which hide everything between the tags. Flat Out let's discuss it 14:42, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

sourcing the use of streaming media in libraries example

Thanks for your feedback- I'm a newbie here so I can use suggestions on the best way to post. I know that the examples I posted of libraries using streaming media versions of films do take place because I use them in the library all the time. Should I find a link to an article describing this process or a press release of a product offering? What kinds of sourcing is acceptable?LibraryMatt (talk) 15:04, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Hi LibraryMatt, thanks for your question. I will follow-up at your talk page.Flat Out let's discuss it 15:08, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Goniobranchus aureopurpureus

Thank you for that, I am only new and trying to find my niche. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 15:42, 20 July 2013 (UTC) If you need any help let me know, I am more than happy to assist. Flat Out let's discuss it 15:46, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

now You See it

Can you please tell me why you reversed my edits on the page Now You See It?It didnt violate any copyrights. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cryptideditor (talkcontribs) 20:24, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

You are correct, my edit was an error and I have restored yours. Flat Out let's discuss it 01:41, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Recent edit

Hi Flatout, I have to admit I feel rather annoyed by your action. I put as many proven information as I know, and not having time to dig ten deeep into my files to put a quote for you happiness I still believe that the info you have deleted was definitely augmenting the Wiki for the benefit of its readership. I'd appreciate if you return the deleted text. Martin Velek.

Hi Marvel52. You haven't made an edit since 2011 and I have only been editing since March this year, so I can't have reverted any of your edits. Are you editing under another name? Flat Out let's discuss it 02:03, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

John Hardbattle

John Hardbattle never went to Oxford University. i suspect this was from something that Rupert Isaacson wrote somewhere and just copied. he did however go to college in Hull, i believe. to become a mechanic. he also did not start the first people of the kalahari with roy sesana, there was quite a few people involved in starting the first people of the kalahari and roy sesana was not one of them. komtsa Komtsa was the very first person to talk to John about a voice for the bushmen. if anything it should be Komtsa who should be credited with founder member. roy sesana joined two years after the first people of the kalahari was established. 4ratel4 (talk) 10:57, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

4ratel4, you registered an account to tell me that? Flat Out let's discuss it 11:09, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Chennai Express YouTube Source

Hi, Karthikeyan.pandian keeps on adding some random YouTube video which includes a man ranting about how he hates the film. Is it not news, or anything. Firstly, a random opinion of some man on YouTube is not RS. Karthikeyan.pandian does not understand this and keeps on introducing the YouTube video of the man ranting and raving. I've tried to revert his vandalism (adding non-RS sources over and over and destroying my other edits is vandalism) but I don't know what else to do. I don't think he understands opinion based youtube rants aren't RS. Ashermadan (talk) 05:57, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

He has also broken the 3 RR rule many times. I don't know what to do. He won't stop. Ashermadan (talk) 05:59, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
I have given him as level 4 warning and made an entry on the article's talk page, if he keeps going I will extend the report that you have made - however you also need to be careful not to get pinged for edit-warring. I'll keep an eye on the article and will deal with any reinstatement of unreliable sources which is the most I can do. Flat Out let's discuss it 06:01, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, I'll let you deal with him. I just don't think he understands. If Wikipedia started adding every YouTube video of a man pissed off at a film, or a leader, or anything by making random accusations, this tool would be worthless. Or maybe he's just really angry and doing it on purpose. Ashermadan (talk) 06:08, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
A friendly word of advice, once you have hit the 3 revert limit it is best to step back and let someone else take over or risk being warned yourself. Reverting because you are right rarely stops an edit war. Flat Out let's discuss it 06:11, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I still don't understand how he thinks a ranting and raving man on YouTube is an RS. Ashermadan (talk) 06:13, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

change/deletion to an edit of mine

Hi Flatout, — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marvel52 (talkcontribs) 10:05, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Marvel52 - did you need something? Flat Out let's discuss it 10:13, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

pc winning over me any time :-( mnjust tried to send you a message, apparently it went off to you after the first two words, the body of message was written in some edit page of yours, i am lost and annoyed; have offered to use normal e-mail, that Marvel52 (talk) 10:30, 22 July 2013 (UTC) communication thru wiki is absolutely awkward for me.

Marvel52 I answered an earlier post of yours (above). I have never edited any of your work. Flat Out let's discuss it 11:35, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Ah... forgive me...

If I'm not posting this on your talk page in the correct place Flat Out - still finding my way around here :) I understand what the person rejecting the article is saying about 'notability' (The book itself is 'notable' IMO and sure I guess I have to find a way of conveying that) - but in this instance the article was not forwarded on the basis simply of the notability of the book - it was the notability of the book because of the notability of the 'author of the book'. James Boswell is one of Scotland's most notable authors from the 18th century and as such anything he has written is of importance culturally (particularly for the Scots). I guess the point I'm trying to make is that had it said written by 'George Orwell' or 'William Shakespeare' it would have been a shoe in regardless of the merits of the book.

I'm not certain that's the case, once you decide to go down the WP:AfC route the reviewers are going to apply the notability criteria for books.

Which is why I when I wrote 'James Boswell' in the article I linked it to his Wikipedia entry. Incidentally, maybe I'm misunderstanding something here, but the context I was writing the article and submitting it as an entry was its importance to Scotland as a work by James Boswell not as a 'book' - but because it get weighed as 'a book' that cultural aspect appears to not matter - can you see what I mean? Is there an alternate way around that that I'm not grasping? I guess I mean it in the sense that Andy Murray winning Wimbledon for exmple isn't just a 'Sporting success by a Scotsman' but a whole significant cultural baggage comes along with that... Calamity Hill (talk) 04:24, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

I believe that you either need to expand on its importance as a work within an article on James Boswell, or you forge ahead with the article on the basis that it's a book. Flat Out let's discuss it 04:54, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Calamity Hill, as it turns out another editor has created the article outside the AfC process, so you have no need for my help. Best wishes Flat Out let's discuss it 04:58, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

seeing where you turn up on my watch page - flatout - I think I need something to ensure your dehydration is never risen to critical - probably a few barnstarts or shocks or something down the line, I was in melbourne a few weeks back, shouldve called for a shout of whatever cafeeine or the melbourne dew or whatever... - so thanks... for the comments above... sats 07:42, 23 July 2013 (UTC)
I don't use AfC either. Next time you're in Melbourne I'll buy you a coffee :) Flat Out let's discuss it

This week's articles for improvement - 22 July 2013 to 28 July 2013

posted by Northamerica1000(talk) 13:40, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

I've added an opt-in section for those interested in receiving TAFI notifications on the project's main page, located here. Those that don't opt-in won't receive this message again. Also, a revised notification template has been created, located at Template:TAFI weekly selections notice. Northamerica1000(talk) 04:50, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Review:Asking whether do I fit for rollback rights

Hi, can you help me to count the total number of blatant vandalism reverts I have now? Thanks. Jianhui67 (talk) 13:37, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

No, sorry I don't have access to that information and I'm not going to count your reverts manually as you can do that just as easily as I can at Flat Out let's discuss it 13:40, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
I know, but I don't know which is which. Jianhui67 (talk) 14:10, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
I really wish to be a rollbacker and I have reverted a lot of vandalism during the past 4 days and I bounced by 200 plus edits during these 4 days. I really wish the admins will see my hard work and my enthusiasm in rollbacking vandalism edits done by the vandals. I can only do this at night, due to me being very busy in school. I can't apply now because my overall edits is still 442. I want this digit to become 600 plus, and I'll apply soon. Jianhui67 (talk) 13:42, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) Your request at Wikipedia:Requests for permissions/Rollback was refused not even 10 days ago. It's far too early for you to be asking for special user rights. Since I can see you're eager, I'd recommend you sign up at the Counter-Vandalism Academy. Taking the course will bolster your edit count and teach you about how to properly deal with vandalism. Completion might help your case for rollbacker rights. Chris Troutman (talk) 14:00, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
Yes, I was rejected 8 days ago. But after the rejection, I have become determined that I will want to be a rollbacker. I know the rules and regulations and the dos and don'ts , due to me being an admin in another wiki. I had dealt with many cases of vandalism in the various wikis I am in. I really wish to be a rollbacker in Wikipedia so it will be better for me to revert vandalism. I believe that a fruitful ending comes with hard work. I will now work very hard to revert vandalism, and one day, I'll become a rollbacker. Jianhui67 (talk) 15:00, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
I don't think you understand what the admins told you. Your experience on other wikis doesn't matter at all here. In eight days nothing has changed. Consider yourself brand-new and try learning from the recognized experts on this wiki. Besides, neither I nor Flat Out can give you that user right, so don't waste time trying to convince us. Repeating that you "really wish" makes no difference either. Chris Troutman (talk) 15:05, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
I admit I was too rushing to apply for rollback. I'll think I will pick up the course before applying rollback. Jianhui67 (talk) 15:22, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Description of the village Smuka

I don't need any written source. I live in Slovenia and I visited the village Smuka. People from the village were not expelled. They left because Germans (from Nazi Reich) promised them bigger farms and more land in the region of Posavje (round Brežice), it is Eastern part of Slovenia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by G-Cup (talkcontribs) 19:30, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

G-Cup thanks for posting your thoughts. We all need sources for our edits, and you should make yourself familiar with verifiable sources. Flat Out let's discuss it 06:49, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
Hi, Flat Out. It seems to me that the messages like the one left here are not really necessary. The editor needs a guidance not a warning like "Continuing to edit disruptively could result in loss of editing privileges." --Eleassar my talk 07:46, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
Hi Eleassar and thanks for raising your concern. The editors first change was flagged by stiki as potential vandalism, which it clearly wasn't but I did perform a good faith revert and left a note on the editor's talk page that I had reverted their edit as it was unsourced, with an offer of help. The editor then posted here (above) saying they didn't need to provide a source and reinstated the edit or part of it. Reinstating the edit after a good faith revert note is not constructive, however I accept that a template caution was probably excessive in this instance. I couldn't access wikipedia last night for some reason so I was not able to check the edits but I will do so before I respond to your post on that editor's talk page. Flat Out let's discuss it 04:57, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for the explanation. I think that now, after User:Doremo added a source, the matter has been resolved to the satisfaction of both parties. --Eleassar my talk 06:58, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 24 July 2013

Copyrighted materials and images

Hi, is there a way or tool to search for if the content or image is copyrighted from somewhere else? How did you know that time the image on Leonard Lim was copyrighted? I did not know at first. Jianhui67 (talk) 11:26, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

Hope you don't mind me stalking. Yes. Try these links:
Anna Frodesiak (talk) 11:42, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
Thanks Anna for those links. I just googled the image to see if it was used elsewhere, Jianhui67 but now we both know other ways to check. Flat Out let's discuss it 12:32, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
Happy to help. But actually I first do what you do, and we all do, which is check google images. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 14:40, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

Unnecessary message

I don't appreciate that message that makes me think you just assume that I don't know the policy. It would be different if I add actually wrote all of those screwed up entries (I actually hate fixing them, wishing all the time that the idiots who put them on there in the first place would have done the right). I wish you would just bend a little and let me work on it without having your nose stuck up the WP policy book (I don't mean to violate WP:NPA). If you'll just work with me, we can get through this. Thanks, United States Man (talk) 04:51, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Peace Barnstar 6.png The Barnstar of Diplomacy
For resolving dispute/edit war and also voluntarily condemning Vandalism Karthikeyan.pandian (talk) 08:46, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

You are very kind Karthikeyan.pandian. We all learnt something in the resolution of that edit war and you handled yourself well at the Noticeboard. I hope you continue to edit and that we get the chance to work together again. Flat Out let's discuss it 11:07, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Re: Macklemore revert

With regard to this, thanks for clarifying that this was in reference to women, drugs, material objects, and the like. Do you think it might be worthwhile clarifying this in the article, though?

Cheers. --Qwerty Binary (talk) 11:24, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Actually Qwerty Binary that's a good point, "obsessive" shouldn't be there at all. Flat Out let's discuss it 11:27, 27 July 2013 (UTC)


hello, shall i say my real name or just arkturo? ... anyway, i wanna know how to upload photo/jpegs i need to create a page/site or something to spotlight my comic book styled characters. i feel like a half blind man in a long corridor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arkturo (talkcontribs) 16:26, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Hi Arkturo and thanks for your question. There are restrictions as to what you may put on your user page, please read Wikipedia:UP#NOT. It is 2.30 am where I live and I am going to bed now. I am hoping one of my fellow editors such as Anna Frodesiak or Cullen328 might have time to explain how to upload images that you have created. Best wishes Flat Out let's discuss it 16:34, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
I commented on Arkturo's talk page. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 17:43, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Giuseppe Fioroni

Sorry, I already mentioned in the edit "Please look at", I think the website of the Foundation is a source! If you are not interested to have an updated encyclopedia no problem, leave the article like this. This is my last contribute. Honestly I have no time to spend for discussions like this, only because I tried to improve an article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 20:14, 27 July 2013 (UTC) the edit summary is not the place to supply a source. You need to reference the edit in the article and it can't be a website where the reader has to go searching for the information. If you need help with this this please let me know. Flat Out let's discuss it 01:58, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Comic question

ok, let's talk ... ethnic insensitivity in the comic book industry. dc and marvel dominate, when is the last time either produced a non-white title that has lasted for more than 1 year?. Arkturo — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arkturo (talkcontribs) 16:19, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Sorry Arkturo, I don't know anything about comics. Flat Out let's discuss it 10:22, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Thank you

I appreciate you trying to help me out because, as you can see, i'm new on Wikipedia. But what i really meant is how can i discuss something that wasn't in the sources on Talk? Usually it's something really small like a short sentence or even a single word. Is it worth discussing on Talk? Fitzcarmalan (talk) 10:44, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Fitzcarmalan can you point me in the direction of the article or edit you are referring to, and I will be happy to help. Flat Out let's discuss it 10:47, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
I think there was a short argument i don't remember we had on "Aftermath of the 2013 Egyptian coup d'état", but there's also an argument i was having with another user on "2013 Egyptian coup d'état" in the aftermath section (
This user mentioned a phrase at the end of the section that would appear too silly to argue about but in fact it wasn't and most importantly it wasn't in the sources he mentioned. I already fixed it, but i'm sure he/she won't stop. He/she replied several times by saying "per BRD, discuss" and i know what it means ( but i personally don't find it necessary at all to discuss... Fitzcarmalan (talk) 11:11, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Could you please stop vandlising my discussion page?

Please? Whiggsgerm (talk) 11:06, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

It is an attack page, and you are not permitted to remove the tag. Flat Out let's discuss it 11:14, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
My discussion page is *not* an attack page. You are vandalising my discussion page. Whiggsgerm (talk) 11:17, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
OK, Google Translate is a very blunt instrument, but the German seems to support your claim of ad hominem editing (although compared to a user I blocked for year this morning, it's a bit half-hearted!). I've left a message pointing out the futility of complaining about de-wiki admins here, and warning about civility.
I'm watching that page now, so I suggest that you do not edit it yourself and leave it to me. From your message, I assume that there are no other problems with this editor other than on his talk page (the accusation of vandalism above barely warrants a sledgehammer response) Jimfbleak - talk to me? 11:56, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, I was monitoring newbie account edits and saw the page created, performed the translation which confirmed an attack on admin though initially I thought it was related to admin here and felt some urgency to have it removed. I'll leave it to admin to decide what to do with the page and account. Though I don't appreciate the tag being removed it's not an urgent issue. Flat Out let's discuss it


Thanks for the nice words! :) Miss Bono [zootalk] 12:59, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

You are more than welcome, Miss Bono. Your hard work is appreciated and your passion is infectious :) Flat Out let's discuss it 13:03, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
Is it a good virus then? :) I really enjoy being in Wikipedia, and if a bit of U2 comes with that... I enjoy it much more. Miss Bono [zootalk] 13:06, 30 July 2013 (UTC)