Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2013 June 27

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June 27[edit]

need a change to the Jenna marbles page[edit]

Hi my name is Deborah Mourey.. I am Jenna Mourey (Marbles) mom.

On her page...

it reads that Sarah Penna is her agent... Sarah hasn't been her agent for quite some time. I just signed up for an account but since it's a semi protected page.. I can't change it right now.

I am acting as her primary contact; what's interesting is that I think I used to be listed on her page as her parent with a link to my website and the agent wasn't listed there at all and now it's changed back to the way the page was probably 2 years ago. So any help you can give me to remove Sarah's name and replace it with mine would be greatly appreciated. Best Deborah Mourey — Preceding unsigned comment added by Deborah mourey (talkcontribs) 02:00, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Hello, ma'am. I don't question your veracity, but Wikipedia policy prefers that information like that be reliably sourced. Since it's a fairly straight-forward, low-profile bit of data, if she were to mention you as her agent in the contact/booking section of her website/vlog, or otherwise publicly ascribe to you the title of "agent", I'd imagine that wouldn't bump too hard against our sourcing guidelines. In the interim, I'll delete Sarah Penna's mention as it too is unsourced. The double-edge sword swings in your favor! (half way...) Also, since you are her mother, and ostensibly her booking agent, you might want to review our policies about conflicts of interest. Your best bet, should you wish to influence edits on her article is to either learn how to make edit requests via the article's talk page, or come to the help desk with good citations, and we can likely help out. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 03:32, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
Fixed Removed Sarah Penna as agent. -- Cyphoidbomb (talk) 03:32, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
The information was added by this edit, on May 21. I'm going to ask the editor who added it why he did so. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 03:19, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
Even though it's coded in the ibox template, I don't think "agent" is an appropriate parameter - seems spammy to me.--ukexpat (talk) 15:40, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Link shortening?[edit]

List of links.

I have created a template from the basis of the {{welcome}} template that includes a paragraph asking users with non-latin character usernames to check out WP:Username_policy#Usernames_with_non-Latin_characters. At the bottom of the template I have included google translate links that translates the contents of the template into every non-Latin character language the google translate service currently provides. I have to use as a link shortener for these links, because the direct google translate links cannot be posted, as they contain ~~~~ and consequently mess up the formatting of the template.

The template is located here; To see how it looks with the translation links, please see screenshot here.

For example, here is a screenshot of the first link, which is the translation for Arabic-speaking users. You can see from the highlighted URL the 4 tildes which prevent the posting of the orginal, google-translate link due to formatting issues. You cannot wrap nowiki tags around them to solve this because doing that renders the link useless (404 error)

I believe the addition of these translation links to the template would prove invaluable. It is unfortunate that the direct google translate links cannot be used due to the URL problem and the link shortener must be used, but I can't think of another solution. However, in no circumstances will link-shortening links be whitelisted by the external link spam filter so I cannot post the template properly.

Is there anything else I could do to make them work?


Feedthepope (talk) 03:16, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Good question, probably asked at the wrong place (most editors here are generalists). I suggest either Wikipedia:Requested templates (despite the name, it's a place to get advice) or WP:VPT - but not both at the same time. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 06:07, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
You could try {{urlencode:{{<includeonly>safesubst:</includeonly>REVISIONUSER}} ~~<includeonly></includeonly>~~<includeonly></includeonly>~}}, which should encode the user name and timestamp in the URL in a form that Google Translate will understand: John+of+Reading+07%3A24%2C+27+June+2013+%28UTC%29
But including 20 or so Google Translate URLs will make the template very long. How about a list of links to subpages of the template itself, such as User:Feedthepope/Template:Welcome non-latin/Arabic, which could contain a translation of the text with proper clickable wikilinks? -- John of Reading (talk) 07:24, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, both of you. John (of Reading :) ) that's an excellent idea, I'll get right onto it. Feedthepope (talk) 14:36, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Does not save[edit]

Good evening - I have tried over 10 times now to add to the Laguna Beach page the annual event in October and it never saves - please advise thank you xoxo — Preceding unsigned comment added by LPAPA Painters Association (talkcontribs) 04:01, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

According to your contributions page, this is your first edit. Did you try to add that info before you made your account? (Not that there's any problem with that.). Howicus (talk) 04:05, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
The content about LPAPA on Laguna Beach, California was moved into the "Annual Cultural Events" section. If you represent LPAPA please read the conflict of interest guidelines. Also, accounts can't be shared, so be careful of that too. RudolfRed (talk) 05:07, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
The useraccount has been blocked (group name, advertising). -- John Broughton (♫♫) 06:09, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

'Popular Alm'[edit]

Popular Alm (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

I was reading your article on the great harness horse "Popular Alm' and noticed that your list of owners was incorrect. I know this because my wife's Uncle - Jack Taggart was an owner and he was not amongst your listed owners. I have since been in touch with Harness Victoria and they have confirmed that Jack Taggart was indeed an owner during his racing career. I believe that the owners were V Knight, J Taggart and the "Sun Group".

Doug Maxwell — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 05:36, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Hi, while we would like to take your word for it, and we have no specific reason to disbelieve you, Wikipedia policies ask that data be shored up with reliable sources. So if you can cite articles online, or find other articles to support the changes you are proposing, you can either make the changes yourself (with citations), or submit your sources again to the help desk and we'll be happy to help. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 06:20, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Graph edit[edit]

I'm a ne user in Wikipedia and I want to edit an existing graph, but when I edit the post that the graph is in, it's just not there, like it's hidden. How can I edit the graph? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lkjgg (talkcontribs) 07:47, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

What graph in what article? Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 08:40, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
Without knowing what page you are here about, I suspect that what you are seeing in the section is either the display of a template, or a section of another page in include only tags. I'll explain the first only, because the latter is rarer. See Help:Template to learn about templates. In short, if you are seeing in the section you are trying to edit something like {{Name}}, then copy the name, go to Wikipedia's search field and type Template:Name and then you should see the text that is displaying (being transcluded) in the article. From there you can edit it but be wary of changing any code therein you don't understand.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 12:46, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Article has been delete by mistake[edit]


I had created an article about Afdesta international festival but it has been deleted surprisingly. I see the reason is advertisement but i cant determine how writing about a non-commercial festival could be type of advertisement ?

I want my article back ! Afdesta Online Festival

Thanks— Preceding unsigned comment added by Irreporter (talkcontribs)

A subject doesn't have to "commercial" for the article about it to be promotional. Anything can be promoted/advertised. You can ask the admin who deleted it User:Tokyogirl79, to undeleted it to your sandbox where you will have to fix the problems before returning it to mainspace. You are also welcome to use the Articles for creation process where you will receive guidance until it is an acceptable article. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 09:11, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
  • Pretty much what Dodger67 said. I don't mind letting you userfy it, but the other big issue is that I don't see where the event has really received any coverage in reliable sources (WP:RS) such as newspapers and the like. I see plenty of WP:PRIMARY sources, but no actual coverage that would give notability as far as Wikipedia is considered. All articles have to have established notability. You can work on a userpage copy, but you wouldn't be able to move it to the mainspace until it meets notability guidelines. Let me know on my talk page if you're interested in a userpage copy. Tokyogirl79 (。◕‿◕。) 09:15, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Crashing columns[edit]

The columns in the article National Museum of Dance and Hall of Fame run into each other, making them difficult to read. I've tried reducing their width to 3 x 30% and inserting 2 x 5% blank columns between, which spaces the first two columns but breaks the format of the third - how can the columns be spaced apart? - Arjayay (talk) 09:08, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

I have reformatted the table in a more standard way - will this do? I note that each entry includes a pipe symbol, possibly left over from when the list was a Wikipedia-style table. Maybe these could be deleted. Maproom (talk) 10:59, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, it is certainly more readable - albeit that the columns are different widths - I'll remove the pipes - Arjayay (talk) 11:12, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
Maybe you could also leave out the dates of birth and death, as these are easily available from the linked Wikipedia pages. Maproom (talk) 11:42, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Dalai Lama[edit]

Sir, I'm a regular wikipedia user and I also use to contribute articles on Wiki. The worst mistake I have ever seen on Wikipedia is the nationality of HH the Dalai Lama. Please change HH the Dalai Lama's nationality from Chinese to Tibetan. This is not only politically important but also sentiments of millions of people. Thank you! Eagerly waiting for your correction......... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dekhang (talkcontribs) 12:29, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Where does Wikipedia say the nationality is Chinese? I cannot find it in Dalai Lama or 14th Dalai Lama but he is mentioned in hundreds of other articles. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:50, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
He was born in Amdo in 1938. The one article I looked has his birthplace as China. The Amdo article states "...however, most of the communities of the rural areas of Amdo and Kham remained under their own local, Tibetan lay and monastic leaders into the 1950s." See also: Definitions_of_Tibet#Geographical_definitions --Canoe1967 (talk) 16:08, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Company Name[edit]

Our company name is incorrectly displayed on Wikipedia. How can we change this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 15:58, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Three easy steps: 1. Tell us what article this is about. 2. Tell us what the correct name is. 3. Provide us with acceptable proof of the correct name. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 16:08, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
Agreeing with what Dodger67, note that the titles of articles are not always chosen by their "official" name, but by what is commonly used to refer to the them in reliable sources. Also, we normally do not include corporate status indicators such as "Inc.", Corp. Ltd. etc. Please see the common names policy and Wikipedia:Official names. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 18:18, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Added Edit on my Article for Creation is not on main article page.[edit]

Hello, I have just completed my article for Creation, Alfred Herbert Richardson. I have inserted a short paragraph into the Edit page, as normal, but it doesn't show up in the final whole document page. The added wordage is included in 'Show Changes' in the main article. What, if anything, do I do please ? TimothyWF (talk) 19:26, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

19.47hours. I have just discovered my <ref> and </ref> was misprinted by me. So the problem is solved. (!) — Preceding unsigned comment added by TimothyWF (talkcontribs) 19:50, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Text too small[edit]

The text used in articles and the watchlist is too small for me to read easily. If I use Firefox, I can choose to enlarge the page with the browser controls and Firefox will remember to do that just for Wikipedia. But Internet Explorer will apply the setting to all pages, which I don't want. Is there a way to make Internet Explorer only enlarge Wikipedia? Alternatively, is there something I can put in my profile or some other weird hidden location to make the text larger? Jc3s5h (talk) 20:54, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia is all about accessibility, so it surprises me there's no text size setting. You can try adding the following text to User:Jc3s5/common.css:
#mw-content-text {
  font-size:1.2em !important;
Replace 1.2 with however large you'd like the text (for example, 1.3 or 1.4 or 1.5, etc.) Scarce2 (talk) 23:22, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, that did it. Jc3s5h (talk) 04:03, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

A template for real world references to WIkipedia articles?[edit]

I vaguely remember some sort of tag used on talk pages to indicate that an article has been mentioned in the real world? I've come across a reference to the article SAS language in the 2010 judgment of the High Court of England and Wales in SAS v World Programming Limited: link here, at paragraph 56. Is there such a template? Help appreciated! Many thanks in advance! --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 21:01, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

{{Press}} or {{Notable citation}}, perhaps. Neither seem quite suitable for a court case. -- John of Reading (talk) 21:23, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
I don't think there is a template, but there is a list at Wikipedia:Wikipedia as a court source. --  Gadget850 talk 01:01, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
Thanks both, looks like it should go into the latter...--PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 08:27, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Title of page[edit]

I created the user name CogswellEntrepreneur but I am trying to create an article on Black Collar Entrepreneurs. I would like the title to be Black Collar Entrepreneurs. Currently the user name is what is showing. How do I make that change? — Preceding unsigned comment added by CogswellEntrepreneur (talkcontribs) 21:52, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

I wouldn't bother - your article won't pass our notability guidelines. We don't have articles on non-notable phrases, whether trademarked or otherwise. And by the way, read the Wikipedia:Username policy - user names which purport to represent organisations are not permitted. AndyTheGrump (talk) 22:07, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
I thought AndyTheGrump was being a bit harsh there – until I read your draft article. Maproom (talk) 22:30, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
I know: even among spammers, that was one of the most contemptibly vile pieces of promotional dung I've ever had the misfortune to step in. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:53, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

One baby, two biological fathers[edit]

Is Partible paternity a hoax article? It bases its notability on the claim that one child can have two biological fathers, but then downplays that assertion by calling it a "concept" in the second and third sentences. And look at the horrendous sourcing for the article. If my instincts are correct on this, can someone please take steps to have the article deleted? -- (talk) 23:50, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

I've deleted the word "biological" from the article, because the examples from folklore appear to be non-biological fatherhood. It is not a hoax article. It has been here since 2007. What is wrong with the sourcing, anyway? If you don't like the article, improve it, or comment on the talk page. Robert McClenon (talk) 23:57, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
It is worth noting that in some 'western' societies, common law asserts 'presumption of paternity, which may make a man the legal father of his wife's child, even if he isn't the biological parent. I'll check the sources though, and see if the article needs further clarification. AndyTheGrump (talk) 00:03, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
Robert, your removal of the word "biological" eliminates the article's claim of notability, which is that one child can have two biological fathers. Obviously, though, your removal of that key word indicates your agreement that the article's claim of one child, two biological fathers is completely unsubstantiated. There are zero reliable sources that verify that claim. You also asked me what's wrong with the sourcing. Well, there are just three sources. The first is this page, which says nothing about one baby, two biological fathers. The second is simply the name of a book, and the cite doesn't give any detailed information about where the information can be found that supposedly verifies the content in the article. The third is this direct link to some woman's personal blog (and of course says nothing about a child having two biological fathers). Do you consider this reliable sourcing? And why, as you suggested, would I try to improve an article where there are no reliable sources to verify its claim of notability? Thanks Andy for your input, but of course presumption of paternity is a completely different issue. It's simply a legal determination about which one man is presumed to be the father of a child. But thanks for looking into it. Anyway, if the claim being made is that partible paternity is basically a concept associated with shared parenting, then the article should be clearly presented that way and include solid, reliable sources to verify all of its content. Thanks. -- (talk) 00:40, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── I've just researched the history of the article and this is the glaring edit (five years after the article was created) that changed the entire direction of the article! Look at the changes made to the opening paragraph, and of course read the edit summary. A night and day difference in the definition of partible paternity from the day the article was created. -- (talk) 00:59, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

And for the record, although the article has indeed been around for almost eight years, it's only had one or two edits per year since then. In fact, it went about two and a half years with no edits at all. So it's an article that's essentially been hidden far below the radar. -- (talk) 01:01, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

It seems the article needs looking into properly - thanks for bringing it to our attention. As for whether some societies have believed (or even still do) that having two fathers is biologically possible, I suspect that the answer may well depend on what is meant by 'biology' in the context - and as my studies in anthropology remind me, such questions are seldom easy to answer - or perhaps best not actually answered at all, if one has to shoehorn another culture's concepts into our own to do so. AndyTheGrump (talk) 01:13, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
You're very welcome, Andy. Thanks for the friendly assistance and additional information! -- (talk) 01:15, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
Anthropology to the rescue: "...among the Mehinaku of Brazil, speakers of a language in the Arawak family, Thomas Gregor found two theories of conception: “Both theories assert that one sexual act is insufficient to conceive a child. Rather, the infant is formed through repeated acts of intercourse. Since all but three of the village women are involved in extramarital affairs, the semen of the mother’s husband may form only a portion of the infant.... Joint paternity is further recognized at birth when the putative fathers of the baby honor attenuated versions of the couvade and acceptsome of the obligations of in-laws when the child grows up and gets married" [1] AndyTheGrump (talk) 01:29, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
On the other hand: [2]. AndyTheGrump (talk) 01:33, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
  • It's a thing in anthropology. Well a concept at least. (Shapiro is usually more of a sociobiological culture warrior than an ethnographer, but I haven't reviewed his argument here) I've actually read that in cats different kittens in the same litter may have different genitors.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 01:34, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
You guys intrigue me with your research and knowledge on this topic, especially Andy's enthusiasm. Haha. All I know is that the article needs serious improvement, so thanks to Robert for adding the rewrite template. I'm really glad that the article at least has eyes on it now. :) -- (talk) 02:17, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
And then of course there is this reported by the Beeb.--ukexpat (talk) 12:47, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
Maunus has now updated the article - it seems (no surprise) that there are still answered questions regarding the matter. AndyTheGrump (talk)