Wikipedia:New Zealand Wikipedians' notice board/Archive 27

Copyvio rewrite? (crossposted to Māori task force)

I've just had to tag Ngatuere Tawhirimatea Tawhao as a clear copyvio, but there's enough info in what was there (from Te Ara) that a rewrite is possible for anyone who knows a bit of Māori history. Any takers? Thanks - Grutness...wha? 07:20, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

Bauer Media Wikipedia workshop Sat 27th July

Hi all. On Saturday I'm running a training workshop for staff at Auckland magazine publishers Bauer Media (who put out North and South, The Listener, Metro, and quite a few others). They're keen to learn what they can do to work with Wikipedia while observing the conflict-of-interest rules. Options include uploading photos they hold the copyright for, and covers they've designed (the art director of North and South tried doing this on her own but was accused of copyright violation by Commons police who didn't believe she'd designed them).

If any Auckland Wikipedians are interested in coming along and helping, there will be plenty of opportunity to work alongside editors and designers to help unlock the archives of these important NZ magazines and show what can be done with Wikipedia, Commons, and Wikidata. You're welcome to add your name to the Bauer Wikiblitz event page and turn up at Bauer Media Centre, Shed 12, CityWorks Depot, Wellesley St West at 10:00 AM sharp to sign in and help. All welcome. —Giantflightlessbirds (talk) 03:35, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Sounds great! Even if the photographers would upload their "reject" photos, i.e. whatever they don't use for publications, that would be a great boon! MurielMary (talk) 03:57, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Bernard Freyberg, 1st Baron Freyberg

A keen Australian historian (B.A.) is anxious to make this man British rather than a New Zealander. While I have strong personal opinions I thought it might be simplest to raise the matter here and let any discussion come up with a national decision. Eddaido (talk) 05:59, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

Wikidata tidyup needed

There are two Wikidata items for the writer Robin Hyde. The older, fuller one is here: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7352557 but there's also one here: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q55722575 which was listed as "Robyn Hyde" because that spelling mistake appears in an American listing website. How does a Wikidata item get deleted, not sure how that works? User:Ambrosia10? TIA. MurielMary (talk) 11:38, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

You should merge the two together, with one redirecting to the other. See wikidata:Help:Merge for instructions.Lcmortensen (mailbox) 23:13, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

I've done the merge. Schwede66 01:39, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

Cheers for that. MurielMary (talk) 02:01, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

Jackie Clark article

I haven't started one because they're notorious for getting speedily deleted, but it would be nice to get an article started for Jackie Clark QSM as noted on the talk page, founder of The Aunties (and maybe, a possible former NZ cricket player?! — Jackie Clark). Suggest starting an article in the Draft namespace where it shouldn't get clobbered. Jon (talk) 23:34, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

Is the cricket player one and the same (i.e the same person as) Clark QSM of the Aunties?? MurielMary (talk) 23:46, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

Well exactly... I don't know! Jon (talk) 12:36, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

New Zealand wine regions

Hi, as I noted on Talk:New Zealand wine I've started moving the regions out into their own articles, starting with Hawke's Bay (wine). Once this is done I'd like to get the New Zealand wine article reviewed, submitted to WP:PR and work on getting it upgraded to good article status. Please help, comments suggestions etc welcome. If you want to do one, use the Wine infobox template at the top, and the navigation template at the bottom. Cheers! Jon (talk) 12:39, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

Deleting a redirect?

Not sure how to tidy this up - I've created an article for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisa_Matilda_Snelson, which was previously a redirect from her name to her husband's article. When I now try to move this article to "Louisa Sneldon" I can't as there is already a page with that name (it's a redirect page). How do I sort this out so the article I've written is at "Louisa Sneldon"? TIA.

In addition, the article needs to link up to the Wikidata item https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q65923023 but I don't know how to do that either!

MurielMary (talk) 10:00, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

• You could make a technical move request on here Wikipedia:Requested moves/Technical requests. But hopefully there might be an admin who can do this for you easier. Ajf773 (talk) 10:04, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

• Oh. I had just come across this as it was "my redirect" and have tidied it all up. Before I saw this post. Yes, you need assistance with that as the edit history of the redirect needs to be preserved. I've done a history merge as part of the process. You can just ping me when you strike problems like that. Schwede66 10:48, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

Split Outhwaite Family into individual biographies?

I've just put a suggestion on the talk page of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outhwaite_Family,_Auckland suggesting the page is split into biographies for each of the family members to enable more detail to be added to each biography without the whole page becoming unwieldy. Also it would enable each person to have their own Wikidata item as at the moment they can't (Wikidata item can't map to more than one WP page). MurielMary (talk) 10:58, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

Consensus for suitable title

The electric power consumers' trust Auckland Energy Consumer Trust was rebranded as Entrust several years ago. The article should be moved, but Entrust is already taken. Other possibilities are [Entrust, New Zealand], [Entrust, consumer trust], [Entrust, trust], and several others. Can I get a consensus for a suitable title? I'm asking here because there have been no edits for 12 months and asking on talk pages of neglected articles seldom yields results. Akld guy (talk) 11:47, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

how about [Entrust (community trust)]. Then the current Entrust could become [Entrust (software developer)]. Both are specific, international, and (i think) follow the format of other ambiguous article names Somej (talk) 21:37, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

That's a great suggestion, but moving the current American article seems like overkill and unnecessary. Akld guy (talk) 22:07, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

maybe overkill, yes, but then you can also get bonus points for setting up a disambiguation page Somej (talk) 03:57, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

I support using Entrust (community trust). No need to move the Entrust article, but add a hatnote to it for the NZ trust.-gadfium 04:21, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

Thank you gadfium, I support that too. Suggested hatnote: For|the consumer electrical trust in Auckland, New Zealand|[[Entrust (community trust)]]. Akld guy (talk) 06:05, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

Looking at pageviews, the American entity is clearly the primary topic. WP:ONEOTHER thus applies, meaning that Entrust should be left alone and it's only the Kiwi outfit that needs to be disambiguated. I've done so as per the above and added a hatnote. Somebody may want to rewrite the leading sentence for the consumer trust to reflect the new name. Schwede66 10:43, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

Less than 24 hours for consensus and/or debate? There might be some editors who haven't read this yet. Akld guy (talk) 11:48, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

There is zero finality to a page move. If consensus changes we’ll move again. And if you prefer a formal process then WP:RM is the venue. Schwede66 18:06, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

It doesn't work that way. Very few editors are willing to challenge a fait accompli, unless they have exceptionally strong views (not likely here). Any further suggestions have effectively been shut down. Akld guy (talk) 19:18, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

Let it be stated that further or divergent thoughts are more than welcome. Schwede66 17:41, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

Inglewood

I'd like some feedback on recent edits to Inglewood, New Zealand. Please see Talk:Inglewood, New Zealand#Notorious?.-gadfium 23:52, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

WikiProject Film/New Zealand cinema task force

I'm interested in revitalising the New Zealand cinema task force. Anyone keen? You can reach me on my talk page. Quilt Phase (talk) 23:19, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

New Zealand College of Education

Hello

I work for the New Zealand Qualification Authority and trying to have a fake wikipedia entry deleted. There is no such organisation called the New Zealand College of Education, it is not on the New Zealand Companies Register, it does not exist at the address given (60 Symonds Street) and the entry is completely derived from a scam website and a free accreditation service based in the UK. By having a wikipedia entry, this scam website is attempting to legitimise itself in order to dupe people.

I have tried to delete the Wikipedia entry twice, but people keep on reinstalling it on the false assumption that it is a legitimate entry. Can someone please explain how to report fake entries in wikipedia.RiskManagementNZQA (talk) 23:34, 30 September 2019 (UTC);

Corrected link to the disputed article-gadfium 03:57, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

I am really just passing through and noted this entry, but didn't have time to fully investigate. Did a cursory search and see they claim Jim Anderton (born 1938) and Pat Walsh (born 1936) as alumni, yet the college was not established until 1992. Something's amiss. Moriori (talk) 00:29, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for posting here. I have proposed the article for deletion using the process outlined here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Proposed_deletion although other editors may think it is a case for "speedy deletion" which is a faster way of notifying administrators of a deletion request. Let's see what other editors think. MurielMary (talk) 00:30, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

My proposal to delete was removed by another editor who challenged it. I've edited the page instead, removing quite a bit of information and also stating that it's not accredited by NZQA. Not sure what else to do, but will come back to it later. MurielMary (talk) 02:02, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

[1] Roger 8 Roger (talk) 07:00, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

I'm going to try to write a short article for The Signpost on this scam. Anybody with information on it is invited to email me. Smallbones_(smalltalk) 04:24, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

Why not post a link to it here? You may find that other editors would be happy to chip in. Schwede66 05:52, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

@Smallbones: if you're writing an article about this episode, the part I found most "interesting" is that prior to the Newsroom article being published, other editors insisted that the article should stay on WP due to the existence of the College's website. As per the discussion on the article's talkpage, other editors claimed that my statement "there is nothing at 60 Symonds Street" for example was OR and that the existence of the website overrode this statement - which raises the question of how to prove that something doesn't exist. The NZQA listing of Auckland schools which doesn't include this college was all I could come up with; maybe a Google maps photo of the empty lot at 60 Symonds could have helped too, not sure. But I think that without the Newsroom article, this saga could have gone on for a very long time. MurielMary (talk) 10:20, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

Isn't the way to deal with this to undermine the sources used to prove it does exist, rather than trying to prove that it does not exist? One web site does not make a reliable enough source, and so those editors who claimed it did were wrong. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 12:49, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

Catch up for Christchurch-based Wiki people

I'd like to see a regular, maybe monthly, opportunity to catch up in person with other Wiki editors in Chch. Personally Monday nights suits me - any other suggestions? Venue? We've met once before in a function room at Smash Palace, which was quite good as it has a data projector so we could share what we're working on for others to see. @Schwede66: @Podzemnik: MurielMary (talk) 02:37, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

Good idea MurielMary, thanks for that. Yup, I'm all in for Mondays. Venue - I don't mind. Maybe a library would be nicer but Smash Place did a good job last time too. Podzemnik (talk) 19:57, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

Excellent. Let's do this. Next Monday is too soon. I have something on at 14 October. How about we settle for 21 October? I'll check with Johnny Moore (owner of Smash Palace) that there isn't something else on. MurielMary, will you start a Meetup page? Schwede66 21:07, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

Sure, let's go for Monday 21st evening, venue TBC, I'll put it on the facebook page and do a meetup page. MurielMary (talk) 22:14, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

Page here: Wikipedia:Meetup/Christchurch 3. @Schwede66: have you had a chance to check with Smash Palace re room availability? MurielMary (talk) 10:28, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

Ah, yes. Venue is all confirmed and I did update the meetup page but forgot to comment here. Schwede66 18:30, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

New biography article - editing / grading would be appreciated

Kia ora everyone, I have just moved the article Arthur Guyon Purchas that I have been working on out of the draft space as I now see it fit to be a published article. It is well within the scope of WikiProject New Zealand.

If anyone could come and proofread the article and make any necessary edits that would be great. In addition to that if someone could add the WikiProject NZ template to the talk page and grade it that would also be much appreciated. I am not sure whether I would consider it a stub but there is certainly room for more information.

Please note that resources for this subject are extremely limited, which is attributable for the lack of citations, though I would deem the ones provided adequate.

Kind regards, WBPchur (talk) 22:04, 8 October 2019 (UTC).

Good work. Have given it a tidy-up with detailed edit summaries so that you can take these things into account with your next article. Keep it up! Schwede66 22:32, 8 October 2019 (UTC)

Thanks very much Schwede66. I have added a bit more to the article now so it could be considered more than start class? WBPchur (talk) 03:43, 9 October 2019 (UTC).

I had trouble parsing the last paragraph of the Later Life section, but it might just be late — Jon (talk) 11:27, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

Millie (short story) up for deletion

• Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL
• Millie (short story) (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs|google) AfD discussion

Important author, Katherine Mansfield, particularly of short stories. Lots of sources at Google books. Referencing needs improvement. Only pretended compliance with WP:Before. Nominator says this is "a test case." 7&6=thirteen (☎) 21:06, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

New Zealand regional/professional orchestras

I've created an Orchestra Wellington article stub, to go with Auckland Philharmonia Orchestra, Christchurch Symphony Orchestra, and Auckland Symphony Orchestra. There's also a need to create one for Dunedin Symphony Orchestra (formerly Southern Sinfonia) which I'm also working on. Does anyone know more about the history of Orchestra Wellington? — Jon (talk) 21:03, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

We could make this a research project at the next Wellington Meetup? Quilt Phase (talk) 05:26, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

Excellent idea! - Jon (talk) 06:32, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Use of copy-edit template

I've had an interesting experience, adding {{copy-edit}} to the Villa Maria Estates article a couple of weeks ago. As you can see in the history, apart from a couple of genuine contributions, it just attracted a bunch of spam and vandalism from mostly first-time accounts. Has anyone else found this? — Jon (talk) 22:21, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, Jon. There's obviously WP:COI editing going on by various WP:SPAs, generally with low edit counts that haven't reached autopatrolled status yet. I've thus semi-protected the article to keep the rogues out and done a bit of a clean up. Schwede66 22:55, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

Stuff, Fairfax, and Nine Entertainment

Well. Stuff (company), stuff.co.nz, Fairfax Media and Nine Entertainment all say conflicting things about who owns a bunch of our daily newspapers. As far as I can figure out, Fairfax bought Independent Newspapers in 2003, managed to fend off Gina Rinehart trying to turn it into Pravda, only to be swallowed by Nine Entertainment in December 2018. Somewhere in that merger, Nine apparently sold (or intends to sell?) off the NZ Fairfax division (now renamed Stuff Limited). Does anyone know the current state of affairs? If so, please feel free to fix the various inconsistent statements in these articles, or comment here...! Cheers - Jon (talk) 06:30, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

I have made a start by editing the 2 Stuff articles. Nurg (talk) 10:45, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

New Zealand wine article peer review

Hi, please feel free to weigh in on a peer review of the New Zealand wine article. I've not done one before, so who knows what happens... Cheers — Jon (talk) 08:13, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

The past is a foreign country

If I put an item in WP about an event in Invercargill which happened when Invercargill was a part of Otago and I describe the event as happening in Otago I'd be right, wouldn't I. When someone comes along a decade later (i.e. a decade after I wrote it in here) (and says to themselves what nonsense) and changes it to Southland may I revert their edit?

There are parts of the country which until recently were considered to belong to quite different regions. An enthusiastic editor is "modernising" them by changing the nominal locations. I want to revert them to the (for me) the familiar almost centuries-old place name. Do we have a ruling on this? Thanks, Eddaido (talk) 04:45, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

If you make sure that the context specifies what you are talking about, then it's always important to be historically correct. This is stock-standard for Wikipedia. For example, the initial four Māori electorates will never get a macron because at the time they existed, macrons weren't used. That is, it's (for example) Southern Maori and not Southern Māori. That the city of Whanganui is spelled with an 'h' is a recent thing and in the pre-'h' context, you'd write "Wanganui". Schwede66 07:09, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

The appropriate way to write the article is "[Someevent] in [Someplace] in 18xx in Otago (now in Southland)..."-gadfium 07:47, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

Thanks both. Eddaido (talk) 09:00, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

It is very common throughout Wikipedia, and the wider world, for editors to be anachronistic, to confuse time periods and to place current measures over a period when such measures were not used. The example you use, putting a town in the wrong region, is one of the simplest to identify but there are countless others. You see this a lot in movies, where characters wear out of period dress; speak with out of period words; or express out of period moral values. I suggest that if being historically correct is likely to cause justified confusion then you should add an aside to clarify, but keep this to a minimum. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 09:15, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

Discussion about 'Category:Mayors of places in Auckland Region'

The link to the discussion about 'Category:Mayors of places in Auckland Region' is broken. Nurg (talk) 10:10, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

blog posts

Over the last couple of days I've posted a series of professionally-edited blog posts related to my involvement in en.wiki. https://sciblogs.co.nz/guestwork/2019/12/18/how-i-came-to-be-writing-wikipedia-biographies-for-female-new-zealand-professors/ https://sciblogs.co.nz/guestwork/2019/12/19/what-to-put-in-a-wikipedia-biography-and-what-gets-left-out/ https://sciblogs.co.nz/guestwork/2019/12/20/15-years-of-editing-wikipedia/ Stuartyeates (talk) 10:46, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Thanks Stuart, I enjoyed reading those posts.-gadfium 18:14, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Indeed. Excellent posts. Keep up the good work. Season's greetings to you all. Schwede66 22:08, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Good on you for doing this; nice to see more coverage of how people are working to fix the gender bias, and it's something I can point journalists to when they ask what's going on in NZ Wikipedia.. —Giantflightlessbirds (talk) 22:42, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

These are very interesting articles - thanks also from me. Nick-D (talk) 05:25, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

I didn't know that the subject of a biography on WP can have it removed on request. A process for this is described at https://sciblogs.co.nz/guestwork/2019/12/19/what-to-put-in-a-wikipedia-biography-and-what-gets-left-out/. Is this a WP policy? Nurg (talk) 08:46, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

If a person with marginal notability requests that an article about them be removed, we will generally follow their wish. I'm not sure this is written down anywhere, other than WP:BLPKIND, but such an article will go through the {{Prod}} process without anyone disagreeing, or have people !voting in an AfD explicitly as "Delete because the subject does not want an article". See also WP:AUTOPROB.-gadfium 17:27, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

I see. So if someone who was clearly notable asked for their article to be deleted, the request would be declined, I presume. Nurg (talk) 07:32, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

That is my understanding.-gadfium 07:40, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

Christmas traditions

I have split Christmas in New Zealand out of Christmas in Australia and New Zealand (and will do the same to Christmas in Australia shortly). Someone from New Zealand might like to look over the result and correct any glaring errors please. I apologise if I have inadvertently caused offence (although I suspect no more than the combined article would have). Merry Christmas. --Scott Davis ^Talk 08:45, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

Should the last paragraph of Observance of Christmas by country#New Zealand be added? it seems to have material not otherwise in the detail article. --Scott Davis ^Talk 09:45, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

I have deleted that paragraph of uncited info. Nurg (talk) 08:13, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

Does that mean that the rest of Christmas in New Zealand is near enough for now? --Scott Davis ^Talk 11:14, 28 December 2019 (UTC)