Wikipedia talk:Notability (awards)

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No need for this[edit]

Clearly this has been proposed with best of intentions, but we just don't need guidelines for every imagined situation. Please delete this proposal to spare us the instruction creep. WP:N handles this just fine. --Kevin Murray 18:07, 16 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Xiaxue. People are using supposed "blog awards" from non notable organizations to argue for the keep of that article. It would be nice for some guidelines to point to when this happens, since it happens quite frequently. -N 18:10, 16 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict)I agree with Kevin Murray. These situations do not arise all that frequently to require a separate guideline and are probably better handled on a case-by-case basis. For instance, Niyazov is notable even without the awards. At most, I think the idea expressed herein belongs in WP:BIO. -- Black Falcon (Talk) 18:13, 16 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with BF; let's include the best of this at BIO if there is a demonstrable need. --Kevin Murray 18:43, 16 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The Niyazov article is a bad example anyways; Soviet leaders patted themselves on the back with various Soviet honors, including "Hero of the USSR." Bhreznev was fond of awarding himself various honors, including the Order of Victory (later stripped). The tradition carried post-Soviet era; where leaders are presented with awards either during or after their leadership (Niyazov is the only example that I know of self-awards while in power). The title is notable, since I have seen others get the honor. Other Soviet states have Hero titles and other honors, such as People's Artist, so there will have to be something on a "case by case" basis as other said. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 10:04, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I would suggest...[edit]

...covering this in our existing guidelines. What constitutes a "notable award" for people should be explained at WP:BIO. What constitutes a "notable award" for websites can be mentioned at WP:WEB. Et cetera. >Radiant< 11:59, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Revival of this guideline[edit]

Following text has been copied from User talk:SpacemanSpiff where the discussion began.

Instead of taking it up directly to the village pump I wanted opinion of few more experienced editors on the subject topic. The subject is an inactive page which should be worked up on and brought back to life. We face various claims of notability by people backed for being award-recipient and I don't know why this page was left alone. I assume the idea was that GNG covers it all. But we do need some specific guidelines to point IDHT-editors to point to when non-notable award pages are created or when people claim to be notable for winning one of those trophies.
Although currently my interests in this page is to make my life simple in dealing with in-house glam awards, it does cover other people too. See Talk:N. R. Narayana Murthy for lengthy discussions on this topic. Also, #AwardWapasi being a trend it would be good to note which Awards when returned should be considered more notable rather than when received.
If you are not interested in the topic, do direct me to some editor who likes to write such essays enthusiastically. Talk page stalkers are also welcome. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 11:55, 20 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This is a perennial problem. Take a look at Ambarish Srivastava. Looking at that article you'd think he's the new Munshi Premchand and Edwin Lutyens in one person. The AfD deletion was reversed at DRV because he won the Indira Gandhi Priyadarshini Award which is run by some minor Congress politician. You have this on one extreme and then you'll regularly see Padma Bhushan and Padma Shri recipients being taken to AfD, and worse, tagged A7. I think since this involves BLPs and stuff you could ask TheRedPenOfDoom for their opinion as it might be of interest to them. I don't mind being a casual participant in a discussion on this but I expect it to be a time sink so I will not be an active participant. Also, typically Drmies has the answer to everything and you could ask him too. I think Hoary also has an interest in some awards (visual arts) and could possibly offer you some suggestions. cheers. —SpacemanSpiff 14:04, 20 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oh, there's a ton of awards that are nothing--I'm thinking especially of industry awards in K-pop and those kinds of things. And yes, they're used to establish notability, and unrighteously so. What gets my goat especially is the explosive proliferation of "List of awards received by Person X": revolting, and just another example of fan trivia and table porn. But I don't have that much interest in the topic: it's a fringe interest to me. I have written up a couple of award articles, for awards that I know to be notable and I think I usually have decent sourcing for it. But that's really what it requires: good third-party sourcing, not notes in the tabloids that someone received this or that. Drmies (talk) 17:06, 20 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, all of the India television stations have their own "awards" shows that they distribute like candy on their productions and actors and are actually the equivalent of "employee of the month" /advertisements with no actual merit for establishing notability. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 19:12, 20 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
(talk page stalker) Lots of things could be used to test the effectiveness of a awards notability guideline. Here are some suggestions of pages I've come across lately. Wheels (film), Furlenco, Easy Taxi, Rayat Shikshan Sanstha, BabyChakra, Sobha Ltd., Nasscom Emerge 50. – Brianhe (talk) 01:46, 21 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@TheRedPenOfDoom: What do you think of the articles on the TV awards themselves? I just noticed that many of them have been created by a known sockfarm, or operators who match the same general profile:
You (RedPen) actually were contacted by one of these editors at one point [1], maybe you remember? - Brianhe (talk) 03:41, 21 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
In-house Indian TV awards
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

These are in-house awards. Am not implying that other awards from Category:Indian television awards are notable. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 05:17, 21 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I concur with User:TheRedPenOfDoom. The Indian TV awards are iffy because they're basically individual TV networks patting themselves on the back. The problem for us is that these awards sometimes do get covered in print and web media, which at first glance may seem to confer notability. In some cases the coverage may be from sources owned by or affiliated with the networks; in others they're just cheap gossip rags which will report on any content involving celebrities. In any case, it can be difficult to assess the reliability of the sources. —Psychonaut (talk) 07:48, 21 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pinging some editors I think might be interested in the reviving of the subject inactive page. @DGG, Piotrus, Thomas.W, Tokyogirl79, and Ryan Vesey: @Sphilbrick, Dennis Brown, and Bbb23: And now, if our "cabal" is big enough, should we move to a bigger better stage for our drama? Don't want to flood SS's talk page and then repeat all sayings on Village pump or elsewhere. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 08:44, 21 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think that it should definitely move somewhere else, just because this will obviously become bigger. I'm absolutely down for helping to make this guideline more clear for others. I know that I typically give the same spiel about awards whenever they're mentioned at AfD or elsewhere: that less than 5% of awards are notable, less than 1% are completely notable (ala Oscars or Golden Roosters), yadda yadda. The reason I do this is because it's necessary and there isn't entirely a wholly clear guideline on this specific aspect. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 09:23, 21 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • On Tokyogirl79's suggestion, perhaps this could be moved to Wikipedia talk:Notability (awards) as a prelude to a VPP discussion. I don't mind hosting the discussion here, but I don't have the time to get involved in this discussion. Anyone can feel free to copy paste there (or another appropriate location) and close it here. cheers. —SpacemanSpiff 17:53, 21 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The above text has been copied from User talk:SpacemanSpiff where the discussion began.

Continuing ahead, I wish to add that continuity of the award should also be a factor to gauge while deciding the notability. Some awards are given for a year or two and then become defunct. Such award articles could be merged into other appropriate article, like the awarding institute or the only recipients or some such related articles. For example, Joseph V. Paterno Award was awarded only once in 2010 for Best coach in College football. And if notability of a biography is based only on such defunct award, then that biography should also be questioned. Defunct categories of a larger notable award series can still be notable being affiliated to the larger award. But their pages can be merged as one, example Discontinued and Intermittent National Film Awards. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 03:54, 23 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

As someone who often works tasks from the WP:COIN noticeboard, clear guidance on award notability is useful. Promotional articles frequently include mentions of awards of dubious significance. This comes up for company, product, biographical, and entertainment articles. Recent examples included being the best employer in a modest-sized city with few employers, an obscure DJ award, and a product award from an industry association where there seemed to be more award categories than businesses in the industry. Thanks. John Nagle (talk) 05:35, 23 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It is my understanding that this pages intended to discuss what makes an award notable and worthy of inclusion in the project as a separate article. This is a different issue from what awards are notable enough in a given field to warrant notability. I think it is worth discussing both topics, but I think in the end we simply have to have a list of all awards out there, with our decisions on whether they are sufficient or not to establish notability. One way to simplify things would be to tie two parts of this topic: agree that if an award is notable, it is also sufficient to estabilish notability for a topic. This would simplify the issue. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 06:40, 23 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Piotrus: So in the process are you suggesting that we make a list of good/bad awards, just like WP:CHART has of bad one? And maybe eventually stick that up on this page? Exhaustive work, but i think it would be easy if many editors help in. we have categories from where we can surf and list down. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 14:46, 23 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
If this is the way it ends up being organized, priorities could be established based on problematic topic areas. For instance, which American and Indian film and television awards should be retained in and/or used to establish notability of articles about actors, production companies, shows and films? Internet startups? Medical professionals? Real estate? Consumer finance? Educational institutions? — Brianhe (talk) 18:10, 24 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Dharmadhyaksha and Brianhe: Yes and yes. I can try to help with the topic areas of Poland and sociology. We need list of notable awards, and reliable sources, and we really need to have comprehensive lists for everything; it would make AfDs so much simpler. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:59, 25 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
So how do we practically go about it? Filling up such table? §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 08:52, 26 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Name Type Country Subject Notable/Non-notable
Bharat Ratna Orders, decorations, and medals India Social checkY
We can start with awards that have articles. I don't think we need to belabor legitimate national military and civilian awards like Bharat Ratna, Order of Canada and Presidential Medal of Freedom. Maybe a guideline can be an award with an (uncontested) article, or issued by a national government body with a (uncontested) article, is presumed good. The hard part is going to be awards issued by private orgs. Brianhe (talk) 17:59, 26 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Relevant RfC[edit]

Hi, just in case anyone's watchlisted this page, I wanted to cross-post an RfC that may be relevant: the talk page for Beauty Pageants is considering whether to draft a special notability guideline to deal at least with subnational pageant winners and whether that award automatically confers notability. (The question came up because of a large number of AfDs that turned on this question.) Would be great to have broader community input on the wisdom (or not) of creating a new SNG before we move forward. Nota, at the moment it's only about whether to try to make an SNG, not what the standard should be (latter question would be for a later RfC).

Discussion starts here: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Beauty_Pageants#RFC_on_creation_of_consensus_standard and there's a pending proposal for closure from me (the only one so far but of course others can propose alternatives): Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Beauty_Pageants#Proposal_for_closure

Thanks for having a look. Innisfree987 (talk) 16:03, 21 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The Anime Awards[edit]

I have a question: does The Anime Awards seem like a notable award? It's not in-house, it was voted by readers, and there's no real vetting. Apparently the award shows are presented by Internet celebrities... and I've yet to see any plaques or trophies from these awards. lullabying (talk) 21:13, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Certainly not. I don't see the sort of third-part coverage expected of a notable award. I might nom that for deletion. Chris Troutman (talk) 21:29, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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