User talk:Mark Miller

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I am having to take another "off/on" WikiBreak. My contributions may fall off a little for the time being.--Mark Miller (talk) 18:11, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

Contents

The Signpost: 21 May 2014[edit]

Honolulu_Rifles[edit]

This article may need to be fixed :D. I couldn't recall which book I read that line in, and then I realized it was this article where I read it.--v/r - TP 02:37, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Is there a difference between the Honolulu Rifles and the Kamehameha Rifle Association?--Mark Miller (talk) 02:42, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
I really don't know. I had a few books that would've covered it, but I took them back to the library already. All I got left at books on Dec 7, 1941.--v/r - TP 03:20, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
OK. I was just curious as the Kamehameha Rifle Association was formed on Oahu but it may well be that the Honolulu Rifles were coordinated as a response against the other. I will look further.--Mark Miller (talk) 03:31, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Sorry[edit]

I misinterpreted your "Nah, doesn't seem worth your time" as a sarcastic comment on Jimmy's lack of a reaction and thereby seem to have inadvertently fanned the flames; I apologize for that. Huon (talk) 04:40, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Don't worry about it Huon. There have been enough editors who have been impatient with Jimbo over not answering them, that your reaction was understandable. Remember the TV show M*A*S*H* and the character that wrote to Sigmund Freud and never expected a reply...just wrote to feel better. That is what i do, but Jimbo has always been very generouse with his replies to me so i have no complaint there. He even scolded me very harshly when i deserved it and I grew as an editor from that, as i expaect i will from this situation....unless I get blocked. You never know.--Mark Miller (talk) 04:46, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

The Earwig[edit]

Your AN thread regarding The Earwig has been closed and the talk page discussion on The Earwig's talk page has also been closed. I did this not only because it was very clear that no admin action was going to be taken, but also because other users were broadcasting rather clear signals that you needed to stop. Please drop the stick; nothing good can come from you continuing the discussion. Sven Manguard Wha? 06:06, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Clearly such is the case, but only because consensus is clearly against my concerns about the way that bots work and operators are allowed to stop at the drop of a hat. Although I don't think closing the discussion on the user talk page was appropriate unless that was the decision of the user.--Mark Miller (talk) 07:40, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
Mark, I've been offline, but I had a chance to read through this kerfuffle. I just want you to know that I agree with you, and I've seen this scenario play out many times before. The answer is yes, there should be a framework for people to easily move helpful bot work to an active platform where they will continue running after a bot operator takes their toys and goes home. However, this has still not happened. You may want to discuss this ongoing problem with the wider community as it keeps happening over and over again. I've never actually understood why it is allowed. Imagine if someone who contributed 90% of the content to a FA took their toys and went home, and in the process, deleted 90% of their work from the article. That simply would not be allowed. However, if you run a bot, you are allowed to do this, and whenever a bot operator goes inactive, so does their bot. It's really time for this to stop. Bot work should be treated in the same way as content work, but there must be a way for the bots to keep running. Viriditas (talk) 03:57, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, I have only seen it happen this once but have read a few complaints on my watchlist. Seems to be something that is a crack in the consensus part of Wikipedia but...well...I have to pick and choose my battles. Right now DRN is deciding on whether to make it clear to the next bot operator (although I am for a simplified DRN without bots or forms) not to implement anything until the discussion closes and a clear consensus is made. Frankly, I really feel DRN is too complicated for even the volunteers which is why out of 100 volunteers there are on 4 or 5 that are active participants there. Sad really. It limits what didputes can be handles because there are only about ten people over all that handle mediation on Wikipedia before it goes to arb com. No one seems to understand this and I just don't editors really want disputes to be settled but to allow them to fester until someone is blocked. --Mark Miller (talk) 04:01, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 22, 2014)[edit]

Roger Ebert cropped.jpg

Roger Ebert, well known for his contributions to film criticism.

Hello, Mark Miller.

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Film criticism


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Re: Moanalua[edit]

First of all, that is not a relaible source and second the passing from one to another is way off and misses a lot of history

Mark, I think the source is reliable and some of the text is OK as it links to Place Names of Hawai'i.[1] Of course, you may want to revisit this and fix the link (gave it to you in the previous sentence). I realize you are dealing with a lot of nonsense that people have added, but the material sourced to Place Names of Hawai'i is reliable.[2] Viriditas (talk) 05:20, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Feel free to revert if you feel strongly about it. Basically it is a tertiary source and requires a secondary source to back it up. But the main reason I deleted all of that is it was way off from the passing of the land and there seems to be some issues with the information that seems to have some bias towards specific people that makes it look as if they were always the owners of the land. The Samuel Mills Damon article has more specifics and I was going to use that as a start. It also has secondary sources I believe.--Mark Miller (talk) 05:28, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
I also find that wehewehe.org is not the best place to get such extended content. I have found that there are more than one definition and more than one version of content so, it is a great start but really, this one needs secondary sourcing to demonstrate the content is accurate. Basically the site translates words from Hawaiian to English and is not known for accurate encyclopedic content. I removed some content that was sourced to wehewehe.org that was just completely wrong, but i wont revert you if you wish it returned. When I get around to it I plan to expand the Moanalua article. My 3 times great grandfather was konohiki for the land and I keep finding more and more about the location.--Mark Miller (talk) 05:32, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
Mark, wehewehe.org is the hosting site, not the source. I just wanted you to know that the link to the source material was wrong (and I gave you the correct link up above) and that Mary Kawena Pukui and Samuel Hoyt Elbert are authoritative sources on Hawaiian history. You originally said they weren't reliable, and that's not correct. I see that you are referring to the fact that you see this as a "tertiary source", but the distinction between primary, secondary, and tertiary is not exactly clear here. The fact is, the source itself is reliable for Wikipedia, and is considered authoritative. Whether or not the material that was added is directly supported by the source itself is another matter. That's why I encouraged you to compare the content that you removed with the new link I gave you above. My recommendation is to restore any material that is found in that source, as it is considered to be the highest quality and acceptable for all Hawaii-related topics. Thanks. Viriditas (talk) 05:36, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
Wait, wait, wait. I only remember there being one source for all the content. As a tertiary source (dictionary or encyclopedia) it is acceptable but only when used with a secondary source when the information is more than a straight forward definition. Let me look further at your other post. I am looking through a data base right now but i can put that off for a bit.--Mark Miller (talk) 05:42, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
Oh OK, I have been going back and forth between here and the State Archives but the second link you left in your first post says "Looking for something? We're sorry. The Web address you entered is not a functioning page on our site ". Were Mary Kawena Pukui and Samuel Hoyt Elbert part of that link?--Mark Miller (talk) 05:44, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
Would it help for me to just self revert for now? I know the content is not completely accurate but it isn't so far off that it can't bethere until i get to it later.--Mark Miller (talk) 05:49, 27 May 2014 (UTC)--Mark Miller (talk) 05:49, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
I think if you are fairly certain that the content is not accurate, then move what you removed to the talk page. At least that way, other editors will be able to respond to your initial revert. That's my suggestion. Viriditas (talk) 05:53, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
Hey...this entire discussion made me do a quick search and I just found further primary (possibly secondary) sourcing to part of the Moanalua land in which my GGGreat grandfather, Kilinahe was part owner to. Put me in a really good mood. I will put everything back but the mentions prior to Ruth because that is what is in question....just as a jesture of both good faith and because you pushed me into looking and finding that!--Mark Miller (talk) 06:09, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
No worries. Thanks, Mark. Viriditas (talk) 06:12, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
Viriditas If you have a chance and can locate the proper working link for the Mary Kawena Pukui and Samuel Hoyt Elbert information I would really love that!--Mark Miller (talk) 06:16, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
I gave it to you at the top of this thread.[3] Viriditas (talk) 06:17, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
OK, got it. You meant that the content in the tertiary source is credited per: "Place Names of Hawaiʻi (Pukui/Elbert/Mookini) Kuleana kope © 1974, 2004 na ka Hale Paʻi o Ke Kulanui o Hawaiʻi, a me ka Hawaiʻi, Place Names (John R.K. Clark) Kuleana kope © 2002, 2004 na ka Hale Paʻi o Ke Kulanui o Hawaiʻi,"
I made a small mistake referring to Kilinahe as a konohiki. That was a different GGreat grandfather. Kilinahe was a chief of land and may or may not be as a Konohiki but was granted land per the Mahele from Kamehameha I (I think) and his Hanai adopted parents. But Konohiki may still be applicable. But when Ruth was trying to remove a headman in court (succesfully) the court used Kilinahe as an example because Lot fired him but could not remove him from the land itself during his life time. So that makes me think he was at least konohiki of that portion of Moanalua. The land is named for the House of Moana I believe.--Mark Miller (talk) 06:35, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
Hi. I don't think it is just credited to the website. It appears to be a verbatim quote from the source itself. Viriditas (talk) 06:37, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
Okie dokey...but then wouldn't it be more appropriate per policy to use the original source if we can find it? It would certainly mean that this is not the actual source? Not that I am very eager to do anything at the moment but if we know the tertiary source is quoting verbatim another source (and they provide the information to locate the original source) we should try to track that down as that is the actual source of the information. But I am not touching this further for a while.--Mark Miller (talk) 06:49, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
Well, I'm not the one who added this material, but yes, citing the original source is more appropriate. However, if it can be verified that this is the verbatim source (and I'm fairly certain it is) then many times, editors will cite other sources to support material, making our job a bit tougher. So yes, ideally, the original source should be cited, not the website. Viriditas (talk) 06:52, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
OK then. When I get back to this subject I will refer back to this discussion for the authors you pointed out and try to find their original works to cite. Thanks!--Mark Miller (talk) 06:56, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
Done and done. :) Viriditas (talk) 07:01, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
Cool! Either, this source is mistaken or the other source that refers to the Moanas is. It may well have just been a coincidence that the descendents of Moana ended up with it. --Mark Miller (talk) 07:04, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for May 27[edit]

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Honolulu Rifles, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Queen Emma (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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Thank you bot....and your operator.--Mark Miller (talk) 09:23, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Max Schäfer[edit]

Thanks for dropping me a line Mark re Max Schafer, Baldymart — Preceding unsigned comment added by Baldymart (talkcontribs) 18:15, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

It all comes out in the wash...[edit]

Moving pages[edit]

Hey Mark - in regards to moving User:JackOrion217 to User:JackOrion217/sandbox, definitely a good move, but for future moves, I'd do one of the following:

  • Move the article using the move function
  • If copy and pasting the article as you did, I'd state in the edit summary the source of the page you are copying from

Just to keep things less confusing for the sake of the editing history, who made edits, etc. Obviously not a big deal in this case, but wanted to throw this out there. Thanks! ~SuperHamster Talk Contribs 07:08, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

OK, I see what you are talking about now. I is too tired right now.--Mark Miller (talk) 07:17, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Dispute resolution[edit]

Why did you close it? The current ANI discussion has nothing to do with this topic. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:46, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

As I said, it touches on this subject. We are not going to allow the DRN to be a dog pile on editors whether they accept it or not. If you feel strongly about the case moving forward ask another volunteer to re-open it, but do not attempt to re-open it yourself as that constitutes edit warring and could gain you a temp block.--Mark Miller (talk) 00:50, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
I don't get it. The ANI thing was about my standing up to the bully / nanny Vienna Waltz when he attacked StuRat. Tutelary wants this DR. You should re-open it and simply take my name out of it. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:54, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
No. I have given you the appropriate suggestion if you feel strongly about the request, but I will not re-open it as there is an active ANI about you and it does indeed touch on this dispute. Our guidelines on this are clear.--Mark Miller (talk) 00:58, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
I re-read Tiefling's complaint at ANI, and I'm not seeing anything about the suicide case. What am I overlooking? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:59, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
I suggest you keep reading then. Whether you believe me or not, I do actually take time to look into things. In this case...I was already caught up as I was already watching it.--Mark Miller (talk) 01:01, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

I formally request that you stop further posting on this subject on my talk page.--Mark Miller (talk) 01:13, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps you can tell me what possible bearing my AN/I case about civility has on this serious DR matter, then? AlexTiefling (talk) 14:21, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
Just woke up. Good morning.
AlexTiefling The case at DRN specifically brings up the reference desk several times. The complaint at ANI is about the reference desk and Baseball Bugs which brings up the suicide dispute. It appears they are more than slightly related and DRN has a guideline that specifies that "We cannot accept disputes that are already under discussion at other dispute resolution forums or in decision-making processes such as Requests for comments, Articles for deletion, or Requested moves.".--Mark Miller (talk) 18:13, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Jodie Foster[edit]

I'm going to fade away and let things take their course without me. Thanks for your comments. 75.119.224.148 (talk) 02:36, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for bringing this up. It was an important discussion, no matter what anyone says!--Mark Miller (talk) 02:40, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Hi[edit]

Could you please tell me a little bit about the motivation for your personal interest in Hawaii? I'm eager to hear about that. HOOTmag (talk) 08:40, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Hello HOOTmag. I don't know you. So here is a some small background on my editing on Wikipedia. I have been editing since 2007 and have nearly 35,000 edits to subjects ranging from theatre arts, film and television, ancient Rome and Greece, politics, biographies, history, military history and more. I am also active with Dispute Resolution, ANI, WP:RS, the reference desk and other boards. I belong to many projects, some I have started myself such as Project OWS and others I helped build with the founder, such as Project Editor Retention and Project Merge. I am active as an editor at BRD, WP:V and other Wikipedia policy and guideline pages.
Could you tell me about yourself and your interest in me?--Mark Miller (talk) 19:10, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Ford Island[edit]

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 09:20, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 28 May 2014[edit]

This week's article for improvement (week 23, 2014)[edit]

Amazonriverbasin basemap.png

The Amazon Basin, pictured in yellow, holds the largest rainforest in the world.

Hello, Mark Miller.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Amazon Basin


Previous selections: Film criticism • French Revolutionary Wars


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Posted by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of EuroCarGT (talk) 00:02, 2 June 2014 (UTC) • Opt-out instructions

I am away from home for a while.......[edit]

I finally succeeded in signing in on my sisters lap top after updating her drivers so I am back but in limited fashion as I am not use to lap tops and no mouse. This should be fun.--Mark Miller (talk) 03:41, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 3[edit]

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Honolulu Rifles, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Committee of Safety (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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Bad bot....that was a while ago. Where've you been?--Mark Miller (talk) 07:02, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

GOCE June 2014 newsletter[edit]

Guild of Copy Editors May 2014 backlog elimination drive wrap-up
Writing Magnifying.PNG

Participation: Thanks to all who participated! Out of 51 people who signed up this drive, 33 copy edited at least one article. Final results, including barnstars awarded, are available here.

Progress report: We reduced our article backlog from 2,987 articles to 2,236 articles in May, the lowest backlog total since we began keeping records in 2009! Since at least 300 new articles were tagged during May, that means we copy edited over 1,000 articles in a single month. Amazing work, everyone!

Blitz: The June blitz will run from June 15–21. This blitz's theme is Politics. Sign up here.

Election: You can nominate yourself or others for the role of Coordinator for the second half of 2014 here. Nominations will be accepted until June 14. Voting will begin on June 15 and will conclude on June 28.

Cheers from your GOCE coordinators Jonesey95, Baffle gab1978, and Miniapolis.

To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list. Newsletter delivered by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:27, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 04 June 2014[edit]

This week's article for improvement (week 24, 2014)[edit]

230px

The Tickle Me Elmo toy was based on the Sesame Street character Elmo

Hello, Mark Miller.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Tickle Me Elmo


Previous selections: Amazon Basin • Film criticism


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2012 Benghazi attack[edit]

Please see talk page at this section.VictoriaGrayson (talk) 03:29, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

Nomination of Samuel Kalimahana Miller for deletion[edit]

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Samuel Kalimahana Miller is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Samuel Kalimahana Miller until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Ad Orientem (talk) 18:44, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 11 June 2014[edit]

This week's article for improvement (week 25, 2014)[edit]

National Library Beijing China.jpg

The old buildings of the National Library of China house historical and ancient books, documents and manuscripts

Hello, Mark Miller.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

National Library of China


Previous selections: Tickle Me Elmo • Amazon Basin


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Posted by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of EuroCarGT (talk) 00:22, 16 June 2014 (UTC) • Opt-out instructions

Explaining the snide remark, aka joke[edit]

Hi, Mark, my comment on Slim Virgin's talk page refers to the William Connelley BLP that has survived several AfDs because his WP editing is mentioned in the New Yorker. That seems to show a group of editors strong enough to flout WP:NOTEBLP. Being somewhat of an inclusionist, I rather like having it, though I see its existence as a clear violation of policy. Yopienso (talk) 06:02, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

I figured it was something like that.--Mark Miller (talk) 06:08, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 21[edit]

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The Signpost: 18 June 2014[edit]

Liloa[edit]

There is a now deleted version of that article at User:KAVEBEAR/Liloa. No idea why it was moved to userspace and then deleted, but @KAVEBEAR: is still active and might be able to shed some light on it. Agathoclea (talk) 20:47, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

@Agathoclea: It was too riddle with copyright problems from my earlier editing days. And these figures are mixed of history and folklore/legend and I wrote them as if they were historical figure. --KAVEBEAR (talk) 20:56, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Most historians are certain that these are real figures, they have either Umi or Liloa's remains that have been analyzed, but a good deal is "legend" based on fact. They were real people however.--Mark Miller (talk) 01:32, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 26, 2014)[edit]

Anubis standing.svg

Anubis, the jackal headed god of ancient Egypt

Hello, Mark Miller.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Anubis


Previous selections: National Library of China • Tickle Me Elmo


Get involved with the TAFI project! You can...
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Regarding that IP that edit warred to reopen his thread on gun control at the refdesk a while ago[edit]

He's asking more opinion based questions, and hopping onto an account to reopen the thread. I've brought his behavior up at WP:ANI#Editor switching between IP and account to disrupt refdesk. Ian.thomson (talk) 02:18, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks you for letting me know.--Mark Miller (talk) 02:20, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Alii aimoku[edit]

You should read Talk:Alii Aimoku of Molokai, Talk:Alii Aimoku of Oahu, and Talk:Moʻi of Maui. It will help in your process to recreate these deleted articles in a better manner. --KAVEBEAR (talk) 07:25, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

I certainly agree they need rebuilding.--Mark Miller (talk) 18:51, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Help with a mini bio[edit]

Hey Mark. I could use some input for one of the bios @ WER/EotW/sandbox. I think its the 4th one down. Thanks. ```Buster Seven Talk 18:15, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

User box[edit]

Could you please help be split my user boxes into two columns..?

Thank you, Prcc27 (talk)

The Signpost: 25 June 2014[edit]

GOCE July 2014 newsletter[edit]

Guild of Copy Editors July 2014 newsletter is now ready for review. Highlights:

– Your project coordinators: Jonesey95, Baffle gab1978 and Miniapolis.

To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list. Newsletter delivered by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:27, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

[The] Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints[edit]

Hello; because you commented in this discussion, I thought you might be interested in participating in this discussion. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:12, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 27, 2014)[edit]

Java Man.jpg

Reconstruction of the head of Java Man

Hello, Mark Miller.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Java Man


Previous selections: Anubis • National Library of China


Get involved with the TAFI project! You can...
Posted by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of EuroCarGT (talk) 01:45, 30 June 2014 (UTC) • Opt-out instructions

WikiCup 2014 June newsletter[edit]

After an extremely close race, Round 3 is over. 244 points secured a place in Round 4, which is comparable to previous years- 321 was required in 2013, while 243 points were needed in 2012. Pool C's Smithsonian Institution Godot13 (submissions) was the round's highest scorer, mostly due to a 32 featured pictures, including both scans and photographs. Also from Pool C, Scotland Casliber (submissions) finished second overall, claiming three featured articles, including the high-importance Grus (constellation). Third place was Pool B's , whose contributions included featured articles Russian battleship Poltava (1894) and Russian battleship Peresvet. Pool C saw the highest number of participants advance, with six out of eight making it to the next round.

The round saw this year's first featured portal, with Republic of Rose Island Sven Manguard (submissions) taking Portal:Literature to featured status. The round also saw the first good topic points, thanks to Florida 12george1 (submissions) and the 2013 Atlantic hurricane season. This means that all content types have been claimed this year. Other contributions of note this round include a featured topic on Maya Angelou's autobiographies from Idaho Figureskatingfan (submissions), a good article on the noted Czech footballer Tomáš Rosický from Bartošovice v Orlických horách Cloudz679 (submissions) and a now-featured video game screenshot, freely released due to the efforts of Republic of Rose Island Sven Manguard (submissions).

The judges would like to remind participants to update submission pages promptly. This means that content can be checked, and allows those following the competition (including those participating) to keep track of scores effectively. This round has seen discussion about various aspects of the WikiCup's rules and procedures. Those interested in the competition can be assured that formal discussions about how next year's competition will work will be opened shortly, and all are welcome to voice their views then. If you are concerned that your nomination—whether it is at good article candidates, a featured process, or anywhere else—will not receive the necessary reviews, please list it on Wikipedia:WikiCup/Reviews. If you want to help out with the WikiCup, please do your bit to help keep down the review backlogs! Questions are welcome on Wikipedia talk:WikiCup, and the judges are reachable on their talk pages or by email. Good luck! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from Wikipedia:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. J Milburn (talk · contribs) The ed17 (talk · contribs) and Miyagawa (talk · contribs) 18:48, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Wikimedia genealogy project[edit]

You are invited to participate in a discussion regarding a Wikimedia genealogy project. Questions and comments are welcome on the project page or its corresponding talk page. Thanks for your consideration! --Another Believer (Talk) 21:08, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Gender bias task force etc.[edit]

Thanks for your comments on my talk page and for placing me on your watchlist.

Just so you know, my ANI was prompted by a discussion on a wikimedia list about this article. The discussion was about the dichotomy of websites where participants work collaboratively but, because of their nature, there is no blocking function (a technology based solution of down-voting / thumbs-down on comments was suggested). One female editor mentioned related this, "... questioning behavior too aggressively off wikipedia evidently remains a no no. I was once blocked for a week for asking an editor whether his overwhelming history of editing in articles about bondage of females was related to his obvious and annoying harassment of me on a noticeboard, after which I mentioned the issue on the Wikia Feminism page which I thought was a part of Wikipedia (duh). The latter evidently was the bigger "no no".

Initially she was blocked was for six months but the community objected and it was reduced to two weeks. I posted a link to the Voice for Men article and asked, "Well why is this permissable then?". It was suggested to me that administrators probably just don't know about it. The discussions ended with a general commitment by everyone to become more active including the, gender bias task force (which I've now joined), so I tested the water by posting my ANI. --The Vintage Feminist (talk) 01:48, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

I think we may well have a problem with the way Wikipedia handles gender issues and I was shocked by an admins very insensitive remark on AN just now. They didn't seem to understand what they said but basically....it was a gender bias issue and exactly how this stuff is promoted without really realizing what is being said and done. I am saddened by these editors who can so easily make these statements without fully understanding how horrible they are.--Mark Miller (talk) 01:53, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
It was a nerdy etymology joke, which you seemed to not understand and therefore may have overreacted to. Not that I think what was said was okay, but it is also true that in the not-so-distant past, hysteria was used to describe a supposed female mental condition. Also, with regards to what TVF said above, "asking an editor whether his overwhelming history of editing in articles about bondage of females was related to his obvious and annoying harassment of me on a noticeboard" is clearly a personal attack (i.e. commenting on the editor, not the edits), even if provoked, and deserves to be sanctioned, although, since I don't know the case, I won't comment on the appropriateness of the mentioned result. Ansh666 05:36, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
Some jokes are not appropriate no matter how funny you think it is. Gender bias is not a joking matter. Support that shit all you want, but do not count on me to do so.--Mark Miller (talk) 05:40, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
I am not "support[ing] that shit". Gender bias is completely unrelated to the topic - the use of different metrics in football articles...unless you want to tell me that it somehow is? Please do not revert the hatting again. Ansh666 05:42, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
That notice board is for discussing admin methods etc., not for general topic ban proposals that should go to ANI. If you do not support it, stop hiding it.--Mark Miller (talk) 05:44, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── This is why I and many people I know hate activists of any sort. Refuse to listen to reason. Fine, if that's what you want, I won't stop you. Ansh666 05:46, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

And hate as well. Good for you. Show as much of yourself as possible. Wow. Just Wow!--Mark Miller (talk) 05:52, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
I don't hate women or feminism. I hate people who claim that I must either be a (insert activist movement here) or against them. There's a wonderful area of gray called "I DON'T EFFIN CARE" in the middle that the majority of people fall into, you know? In this specific case, I see people as people. Don't care if you've got a penis or a vagina, naturally or not, nor what you decide to do with it. I don't care. Ansh666 06:04, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
No, you just stated that you hate me and have even gone as far as give yourself an excuse to how it is OK for you to do so, but you hate activists of any sort. Fine now get the fuck off my page and don't post your shit here again.(edit= Nah, Ansh666, you are welcome to post here. nothing was so offensie as to shut down discussion. That is how we get over the differences) You do think jokes about women are fine at AN and frankly I don't wish to see you post that crap on my page or your excuses for covering it up. Point blank...you are part of the problem and not the solution.--Mark Miller (talk) 06:11, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
I would tend to agree. People who tout apathy as a virtue really annoy me. Yeah, you don't care, we get it, but you should care, and that right there is the problem. Viriditas (talk) 06:57, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

Stalkers...we are discussing changes to barnstars at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Wikipedia Awards[edit]

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Wikipedia Awards. Join the discussion.--Mark Miller (talk) 01:36, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

  • I think that is reasonably within the scope of WER, so a talk page notice would be warranted. Dennis Brown |  | WER 01:39, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Re: Bishop deletions[edit]

This appears to be an excessive form of deletion. The legacy section simply requires sources. Viriditas (talk) 06:53, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

Everything removed could not be verified. The legacy section can be returned with similar content (which I intend to do) but it has to be more accurate and explain that Pauahi preferred the name (as shown in the RS at the Kamehameha Schools biography) but because she was related but not a member of the same "House". The same is true of Lunalilo. While he could have styled himself as "Kamehameha VI" he chose not to. The main issue is that I cannot find a reliable source to the claim that Bishop Was a member of the House of Kamehameha and that may be due to the fact that she would belong to her father's House. Konia is Paulie's daughter and there is controversy about Paulie being a true Kamehameha or even being adopted. I understand that people don't like to see deletions and can find them excessive, but that was both, within the guidelines and policy of Wikipedia, but was within the spirit of the project.--Mark Miller (talk) 17:56, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
A lot of this just needs some context and I will probably be returning much. I found a reliable source that may go into more detail. I think it is safe to say that Bishop Museum and the Bishop Estate consider BPPB to be a Granddaughter of Kamehameha, but that still doesn't make her a member of the House of Kamehameha. The controversy of Paulie's lineage is important and needs mentions. I have been putting off editing these pages but I am beginning my clean-up. I have to find where I can access or pick up the book.--Mark Miller (talk) 18:16, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
And I just found it! I will work on this this morning and return what I can with the RS.--Mark Miller (talk) 18:18, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
Viriditas give me some time today. This source is really good and a great reference for the legacy section that does indeed have the proper context for even the most die hard skeptic such as myself. I will probably begin adding content back some time in the later afternoon, but I am also going to be searching for other sources to strengthen the section.--Mark Miller (talk) 18:29, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 02 July 2014[edit]

This week's article for improvement (week 28, 2014)[edit]

Wok Cooking.jpg

Stir frying in a wok

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Stir frying


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Note to self...[edit]

You have a lot of content to create from a good deal of research and reading. AN and ANI are not content. Just remember that.....uhm...me.--Mark Miller (talk) 04:46, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

While I don't appreciate the support vote, I do very much appreciate your comments about my recent topic ban discussion. I remain completely baffled by its outcome and you are most helpful in giving me at least some insight into it. I did not consider myself to be right in an attempt to change a broad range of articles to suit a consensus solely from a local template RFC, as you said at User talk:Sroc. It was that consensus in conjunction with others at Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Dates_and_numbers/Archive_143#Human_height and Talk:Human_height/Archive_6#Why_is_height_being_expressed_in_metres.3F.
You may not be aware of this, but I stated at Template talk:Height before the RfC even started that metres are perfectly fine if taken from a reliable (English language) source of sufficient quality, and referred back to this statement several times throughout the RfC. While sometimes I have corrected wrong height (and weight) measurements, sometimes I did only change the unit to the one used in the source (it is not my fault that this is very rarely metres). This is because I'm not comfortable with situations in which a quality source is giving height in centimetres, but the Wikipedia article using it is (for some odd reason) giving it in metres. I think Wikipedia should be organically showing the relative prevalence of centi/metre usage as it is in real-world sources. This is surely a desirable outcome for a tool that's meant to be informative. Enforcing any unit is detrimental. Unfortunately {{Height}} still does this as its conversion output is set as metres. Some editors are also trying to do this for articles within their Wikiproject's scope. I thought the whole Wikipedia philosophy was to follow sources and take editor intervention out of the equation wherever possible.
Having said that, for the case at hand, I think the standing consensus at Wikiproject Football has always been that either unit is acceptable as per {{Infobox football biography}}'s usage notes. Recently GiantSnowman has tried to change that via a discussion at Wikiproject Football. Since that discussion started I think Jiang Ning was the only soccer-related article I've edited. I added the height as it was not present in the article. I did not change an existing height measurement. Can this be viewed as disruptive? It's editing in line with existing consensus, but during a time when some users' attempt to change that consensus was waning.--Gibson Flying V (talk) 08:58, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
Just a couple of comments to explain a few things from my perspective. The MOS, its subpages, and even the Project style guides are all just guidance. They are not hard set rules and can be ignored for various reasons. But, it takes a consensus of editors on a page to decide if they wish to follow the main MOS, the project guide or the sources. The source is the source and we should not be attempting to copy them or paraphrase them too closely on a Wikipedia article. But we also cannot take a multitude of just sources and say, "They all do it this way" and then begin imposing that way on editors writing the encyclopedia. That introduces a kind of original research to articles under a broad scope. The MOS does actually say that we refer to the most common name even if not the name used in the majority of sources. So, it is very much the same here. Wikipedia editors need not apply an across the board, application of any style on articles because each article is independent of each other with whatever consensus has determined the content. We would like some consistency and if possible no contradiction, but style, presentation orthography is something that you have to allow to be reverted. For example, if I changed an article on a Hawaiian subject to be correct with the Hawaiian orthography and the consensus of editors on that article believe it should be reversed, I can present my argument, defend it, but I can't hold out or filibuster. You have to be able to accept that what you want Wikipedia to show, the relative prevalence of centi/metre usage as it is in real-world sources, just isn't going to happen. At best the projects can organize some standard but there is always going to be someone that disagrees with decision. There comes a point when you have to walk away. Disengage and do something else and return later to see if there is any movement, but you also have to know what is and isn't possible. Strict standards of presenting measurements seems something destined to always be unattainable on Wikipedia to me.--Mark Miller (talk) 22:22, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 09 July 2014[edit]

Chain Reaction redux[edit]

This is just a note of appreciation letting you know how much I value your peer review of Chain Reaction several months ago. I'm devoting the next week or so to updating this article so please keep an eye on it and if you so desire, commentary on the talk page is always welcome. Thanks. Viriditas (talk) 23:30, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Your welcome.--Mark Miller (talk) 09:09, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 29, 2014)[edit]

Eod2.jpg

Inserting blasting caps into blocks of C-4

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C-4 (explosive)


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The Signpost: 16 July 2014[edit]

This week's article for improvement (week 30, 2014)[edit]

Jazz Band in Queens Park - geograph.org.uk - 729107.jpg

A Jazz band plays in a park festival

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