User talk:Mark Miller

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October 2014[edit]

Stop icon with clock
You have been blocked from editing for a period of 48 hours for edit warring and violating the three-revert rule, as you did at Historicity of Jesus. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you may appeal this block by adding the following text below this notice: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}. However, you should read the guide to appealing blocks first.

During a dispute, you should first try to discuss controversial changes and seek consensus. If that proves unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection.  HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:43, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

File:Orologio rosso or File:Orologio verde DOT SVG (red clock or green clock icon, from Wikimedia Commons)
This blocked user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy). Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Mark Miller (block logactive blocksglobal blocksautoblockscontribsdeleted contribsabuse filter logcreation logchange block settingsunblock)


Request reason:

I don't believe I was actually edit warring as I made a bold edit and was immediately reverted without discussion and endured a good deal of personal attacks that were uncalled for. The revert was supported at the time by another editor, ArtifexMayhem and the editor that began reverting refused to actually discuss the issues before just blanket reverts. I made my case before I made any edits to the article and waited for any response. It was probably too late for the active editors to see as clearly there are many weighing in now, but at that time there were no objections and when the one editor did object, it was without any justification. The article is not about drawing conclusions and the references did not support the claims being made and therefore took away the meaning of other sources only there as "padding to prop up weak sources" as stated by ArtifexMayhem. I believed I was reverting over clear vandalism when a discussion was not going the way the other was hoping and was a deliberate attempt to compromise the integrity of Wikipedia. Should my request be denied, I can respect and accept that. I have not been blocked in a very long time and saddened by this turn of events...but if this is the case then I must accept it and try to somehow learn from it. Please don't get me wrong. I am not trying to stretch what "Vandalism" is but from this discussion, it appears my understanding of what vandalism is more than just blatant additions that are nonsense. I go by our precedence that is set. I cannot see how that is wrong, but can see how others may interpret my actions as edit warring when I try to only revert where the policies allow me to do so. At any rate...I very much trust the good faith of HJ Mitchel as someone I hold in high regard. Any way...I have said and done enough I suppose. Thanks you for listening and I hope at least to be understood, if not actually agreed with! Happy editing to all and to all a good day (been up way too long...sleep calls me now)Mark Miller (talk) 14:13, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

Decline reason:

In a 24 hour period you made 4 reverts on a single article that were not removing copyright violations, libelous statements, or vandalism. In this context, I'm declining your request to be unblocked. PhilKnight (talk) 16:07, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first and then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired.

Well, now you know why I don't touch that cesspool very often.—Kww(talk) 14:09, 7 October 2014 (UTC)
LOL! Yes...well now I know all to well. ;-)--Mark Miller (talk) 14:14, 7 October 2014 (UTC)
The consequence of editing is always the possibility of being blocked. That is something we all must understand and take seriously for right or for wrong. However...wrong is a perception just as "right" is. Going to bed now...--Mark Miller (talk) 16:04, 7 October 2014 (UTC)
Mark - perhaps you could get PhilKnight to unblock you if you didn't edit Historicity of Jesus or it's talk page until after the expiration of this block? I could use help finishing up the A-class review for Ford Island. I was going to work on it today.--v/r - TP 18:30, 7 October 2014 (UTC)
As the user who filed the original complaint, I would also support an unblock. Both Mark Miller and I got a bit caught up in our discussions where we both should have kept a cool head. My apologies for my part in the argument. Mark Miller is a serious and experienced user and I'm sure the community would gain from the block being lifted. Jeppiz (talk) 20:54, 7 October 2014 (UTC)
Thank you for the apology Jeppiz. Accepted. I am sorry for my part as well. I hope to work with you in the future.--Mark Miller (talk) 02:16, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
I would be willing to not edit the Historicity of Jesus article or talk page for the original block duration if PhilKnight was willing to grant an unblock for that proposal.--Mark Miller (talk) 02:00, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
Mark, sorry to hear you were blocked. It would be easier for everyone if there was a clear 1RR notice on the talk page. That would level the playing field for everyone. After all, this is a controversial article that attracts a lot of problems. Why don't we have a 1RR restriction on the article already? Viriditas (talk) 02:54, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
Thanks Viriditas. I think a 1RR would require and community discussion. The article has been the source for a lot of disputes but I couldn't say if the community would agree to something like that. It might but its hard to tell. That could be brought up one of the boards I suppose but I think an RFC on the talk page might be a better idea.--Mark Miller (talk) 03:06, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
Why would 1rr level the field? Is someone currently subject to such a restriction on an individual level? Gaijin42 (talk) 14:48, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Alright, don't do it again. PhilKnight, I hope you don't mind. Drmies (talk) 03:51, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
Thank you Drmies. I hope Phil is alright with this as well.--Mark Miller (talk) 05:05, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
Yes, of course. PhilKnight (talk) 06:56, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
Seems reasonable to me, given Mark's assurances that he won't edit the article for the duration. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:06, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────I'm going to say this, though, for no other reason than "I can". Mark - calm down a bit for goodness sake. All of a sudden you're all over the place, being offended, fighting the "forces of disruption", righting great wrongs... We all love you already, Mark, you don't need to be so controversial or reactive to everything you happen to see anywhere. That's all, really. I hope you don't take it the wrong way. Aloha. And your meal picture makes me so, so, hungry. Begoontalk 13:15, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

In the spirit if aloha, have some Jambalya Homemade Jambalaya.JPG.--Mark Miller (talk) 14:36, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
Needs salt. Begoontalk 14:56, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
  • I've known Mark for quite some time, and will just say that while he isn't perfect, he is much closer than he was two years ago. Personally, I find no fault with the personal growth he has experienced, nor with the personal challenges he has accepted. He just isn't done yet. None of us are. Dennis 17:14, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:2014 Iranian-led intervention in Iraq[edit]

You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:2014 Iranian-led intervention in Iraq. Should you wish to respond, your contribution to this discussion will be appreciated. For tips, please see WP:Requests for comment#Suggestions for responding. If you wish to change the frequency or topics of these notices, or do not wish to receive them any longer, please adjust your entries at WP:Feedback request service. — Legobot (talk) 00:01, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Timestamp[edit]

Collaboration on "Homelessness among LGBT Youth on the United States"[edit]

Hello,

I was excited to read that you may be interested in collaborating in some small part on the page I am creating, "Homelessness among LGBT Youth on the United States." I was wondering if you were still interested in being involved, and if so, what capacity you would like to be involved in--writing a specific section? Reviewing my work? Pointing to sources? Etc. Just so you're aware, I will probably be posting my first draft of the article around Wednesday, October 15h (as that is a class deadline), and I will be working on the article in my sandbox until then.

Thanks so much; I hope this message finds you well! Also, if this is not the appropriate place to be discussing things, please let me know that as well. :)

Magenstat (talk) 18:19, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

I did some work in the summer of 1981 in the Youth Department of the Gay and Lesbian Community Center in Hollywood. Youth issues such as homelessness are not as well covered on Wikipedia as I would have thought. There are good sources but you will have to face difficult issues. I wait to see the direction you take.--Mark Miller (talk) 23:22, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Conundrum[edit]

I've discovered a strange problem, and I'm wondering if I can draw on your knowledge of art for insight. Chain Reaction was supposed to have been built from bronze to the sole purpose of longevity. For some reason that I cannot figure out, it never was, and this is what led to the deaccessioning attempt due to the degradation of the stainless steel and fiberglass structure. What do you think happened? They had $250,000 to work with, and the fabricator, Peter M. Carlson, had worked with bronze many times.[1][2] So who made the decision not to use bronze? Viriditas (talk) 22:13, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 08 October 2014[edit]

This week's article for improvement (week 42, 2014)[edit]

CIA map of Central America.png

Central America is the geographic region that connects North America and South America.

Hello, Mark Miller.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Central America


Previous selections: Steak • International airport


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Posted by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of EuroCarGT (talk) 00:04, 13 October 2014 (UTC) • Opt-out instructions

Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Deepwater Horizon fire 2[edit]

Deepwater Horizon offshore drilling unit on fire 2010.jpg
An image created by you has been promoted to featured picture status
Your image, File:Deepwater Horizon offshore drilling unit on fire 2010.jpg, was nominated on Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates, gained a consensus of support, and has been promoted. If you would like to nominate an image, please do so at Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates. Thank you for your contribution! Armbrust The Homunculus 19:47, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
Cool. Thank you. I only photo-shopped the new version of a public domain, US Coastguard image, but thanks!

Please comment on Talk:Marital rape[edit]

You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Marital rape. Should you wish to respond, your contribution to this discussion will be appreciated. For tips, please see WP:Requests for comment#Suggestions for responding. If you wish to change the frequency or topics of these notices, or do not wish to receive them any longer, please adjust your entries at WP:Feedback request service. — Legobot (talk) 00:03, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

GOCE October 2014 newsletter[edit]

Guild of Copy Editors October 2014 newsletter is now ready for review. Highlights:

– Your project coordinators: Jonesey95, Baffle gab1978 and Miniapolis.

To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list. Newsletter delivered by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:17, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 15 October 2014[edit]

This week's article for improvement (week 43, 2014)[edit]

Icehotel-se-29.JPG

Inside an ice hotel in Jukkasjärvi, Sweden

Hello, Mark Miller.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Ice hotel


Previous selections: Central America • Steak


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Please comment on Talk:United States pro-life movement[edit]

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The Signpost: 22 October 2014[edit]

Question[edit]

Hi Mark, I like your suggestion here that there be an RfC to settle the ongoing issue there. But I'm confused about your interactions with AbramTerger on the talk page. I see from his talk page that he has had some past issues with edit warring but his recent posts seem to be reasonable requests for talk page participation and consensus. Also I think citing his citing of a WP guideline to support his position is quite normal and even encouraged on WP. I'm not familiar with entire back story regarding this dispute, so would you fill me in? What am I missing here that is causing you and others to have this bitter reaction to AbramTerger? Thanks for your time. -- KeithbobTalk 15:07, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Hi Keith. The demands that editor is making on the talk page are more than citing guidelines...he is demanding a strict adherence to them and that is simply not right. Guidelines are there to guide editors...not instruct them. The editor is also flat out wrong when he states that a consensus is needed to go against guidelines. No...a consensus is required for all content. What he is attempting is to place himself above the other editor, believing he has some moral right to stick to the guidelines. We tend to call that Wikilawyering: arguing guidelines in an absolute and strict interpretation is akin to filibustering to get their way and refusing to compromise themselves.--Mark Miller (talk) 18:57, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
Ok, I don't agree with your line of reasoning but thanks for the explanation. Best, -- KeithbobTalk 20:36, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

Picture used in article[edit]

I only briefly looked but you are listed as the editor that contributed a picture to the Gumbo article. You (concerning the picture) have been indirectly referenced on the Gumbo talk page so I thought it right to advise you of this. Otr500 (talk) 11:40, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

Herb Kawainui Kāne[edit]

Hey - do you think it'd take much for us to get this to GA class?--v/r - TP 06:59, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

Just a quick look and I'd say it is nearly there and would take very little work to get it listed if I were reviewing it. I would love a chance to do so if you end up listing it. Good way to get a quick and detailed overview of the artist.
A few things need to be fixed:
  • There are at least two tags in the prose needing to be looked into. A "by whom" and "Citation needed".(must be fixed before nomination as tags are a quick decline criteria)
  • Most images seem to be with proper license but I think one needed proper dating for verification reasons and it should be easy enough to find.
  • Non Free Images have invalid rationales. It would probably be best to use one of the newer NFC boiler plates that have all the specifics needed and have no "NA" or unfilled out points.(This needs to be addressed before nomination as copyright is a quick decline criteria)
  • The lede should be expanded to cover more of the body of the article.
  • All of the sources should be checked to make sure they are all reliable and free of blogs, fan sites or other non RS.
  • The prose and sources should also be checked for unattributed opinion such as an art expert discussing style etc..
  • Check for "List incorporation" guideline issues with the Publication section.
  • Double check spelling of all the Hawaiian names, places, words and phrases and make sure there is consistent spelling.--Mark Miller (talk) 19:11, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
If you, TParis don't have time, maybe I can just make that my project, make the changes and then the nomination. I haven't nominated anything in a while.--Mark Miller (talk) 20:20, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
I might have time later. The ACR on Ford Island should pass later today and I am going to put it up for FAC immediately. Trying to get it to FA by Dec 7th so it can be on the mainpage.--v/r - TP 20:48, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
I looked for the A class review but didn't see one a while back for Ford Island. Sorry I didn't get to that but would like to help with the FAC if possible.--Mark Miller (talk) 20:51, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
No biggie. The Hawaii edit a thon planning isn't going well. I got ahold off the Hawaii public library and they agreed to host it on Jan 24, 2015. But User:Solarra went MIA in August and I haven't been able to get ahold of her. I have made contact with the Bishop museum but they havent responded since. I havent been able to get ahold of either University. Struggling.--v/r - TP 22:27, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
Here is the A-class review. It will be closed later tonight as successful if all things remain the same. I'll put it up for FAC tomorrow. Hopefully the peer review and a-class review will get it through FAC quickly.--v/r - TP 22:29, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 44, 2014)[edit]

Grand canyon of yellowstone.JPG

Grand Canyon of Yellowstone, the world's first national park

Hello, Mark Miller.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

National park


Previous selections: Ice hotel • Central America


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Please comment on Talk:Gaza flotilla raid[edit]

You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Gaza flotilla raid. Should you wish to respond, your contribution to this discussion will be appreciated. For tips, please see WP:Requests for comment#Suggestions for responding. If you wish to change the frequency or topics of these notices, or do not wish to receive them any longer, please adjust your entries at WP:Feedback request service. — Legobot (talk) 00:06, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

Halloween cheer![edit]

Ford Island[edit]

Choco-Nut Bake with Meringue Top cropped.jpg Heads up! Ford Island has passed its A-class review. Moving on to FAC. v/r - TP 15:43, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 29 October 2014[edit]

This week's article for improvement (week 45, 2014)[edit]

Pepperoni pizza with basil.jpg

A pizza is an oven-baked flat bread typically topped with tomato sauce, cheese and various toppings

Hello, Mark Miller.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Pizza


Previous selections: National park • Ice hotel


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WikiCup 2014: The results[edit]

Flag of the Smithsonian Institution.svg
Flag of Wales.svg
Flag of Scotland.svg

The 2014 WikiCup champion is Smithsonian Institution Godot13 (submissions), who flew the flag of the Smithsonian Institution. This was Godot13's first WikiCup competition and, over the 10 months of the competition, he has produced (among other contributions) two featured lists and an incredible 292 featured pictures, including architectural photographs and scans of historical documents. Wales Cwmhiraeth (submissions), 2012 and 2013 WikiCup champion, came in second, having written a large number of biology-related articles. Scotland Casliber (submissions), WikiCup finalist every year since 2010, finished in third.

A full list of our prize-winners follows:

Congratulations to everyone who has been successful in this year's WikiCup, whether you made it to the final rounds or not, and a particular congratulations to the newcomers to the WikiCup who have participated this year. We warmly invite all of you to sign up for next year's competition. Discussions and polls concerning potential rules changes are also open, and all are welcome to participate. The WikiCup judges will be back in touch over the coming months, and we hope to see you all in the 2014 competition. Until then, it only remains to once again congratulate our worthy winners, and thank all participants for their involvement! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from Wikipedia:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. J Milburn (talk · contribs) The ed17 (talk · contribs) and Miyagawa (talk · contribs) 22:51, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 05 November 2014[edit]

You're killin me smalls[edit]

Mark, citation style has been brought up in the FAC. I just went through and fixed all of the citations to use the same style and then you added a half dozen more. I don't mind fixing it again, but in the future could you please make sure to include publisher, year of publication, and use page= instead of pages=?--v/r - TP 17:15, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, I did see that a comment was made about the consistent use inline citations but I figured the tool I was using was providing publisher info. I was not aware there was an issue with the page numbering. You don't have to fix my contributions. I will take a look myself.--Mark Miller (talk) 19:17, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
The citation tool I use for all book sources is the Wikipedia citation tool for Google Books. It appears to include a publisher and publishing date but does use "pages" instead of page. I will check all new references for complete consistency right now. Now...on the Mary Māmaka Kaiao Kuleana kope. "Hawaiian Dictionaries". University of Hawaii reference, there is no page number as this is an online dictionary using the publications as their data base, but I could just find the exact book source from this author and add the information treating it as a true book source as that is the actual source and the online dictionary is really just a convenience link. I'll fix that as well.--Mark Miller (talk) 19:35, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 46, 2014)[edit]

Man sleeping striped-sheets.JPG

Sleeping is part of everyday life

Hello, Mark Miller.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Everyday life


Previous selections: Pizza • National park


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Posted by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of EuroCarGT (talk) 00:16, 10 November 2014 (UTC) • Opt-out instructions

This week's article for improvement (week 47, 2014)[edit]

USAF F-15C fires AIM-7 Sparrow 2.jpg

Military aviation and missile guidance are examples of modern military technology.

Hello, Mark Miller.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Military technology


Previous selections: Everyday life • Pizza


Get involved with the TAFI project! You can...
Posted by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of EuroCarGT (talk) 00:18, 17 November 2014 (UTC) • Opt-out instructions

The Signpost: 12 November 2014[edit]

Gender[edit]

Re: this. I'm not sure who is and who is not, since we can be anybody here, but "Afrodesiak" was raised at the RfA and to be best of my knowledge has never identified their gender. - Sitush (talk) 19:42, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Alright.--Mark Miller (talk) 20:25, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
All three are women and have self-identified as such on talk pages many, many times. Viriditas (talk) 01:53, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
That is correct. Two of them are not available to help, however. Dennis - 02:23, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
All three are great editors. Anna is especially good at thinking outside the box and is extremely patient....extremely. I hope she will be able to help when possible.--Mark Miller (talk) 04:14, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Copyright checks when performing AfC reviews[edit]

Hello Mark Miller. This message is part of a mass mailing to people who appear active in reviewing articles for creation submissions. First of all, thank you for taking part in this important work! I'm sorry this message is a form letter – it really was the only way I could think of to covey the issue economically. Of course, this also means that I have not looked to see whether the matter is applicable to you in particular.

The issue is in rather large numbers of copyright violations ("copyvios") making their way through AfC reviews without being detected (even when easy to check, and even when hallmarks of copyvios in the text that should have invited a check, were glaring). A second issue is the correct method of dealing with them when discovered.

If you don't do so already, I'd like to ask for your to help with this problem by taking on the practice of performing a copyvio check as the first step in any AfC review. The most basic method is to simply copy a unique but small portion of text from the draft body and run it through a search engine in quotation marks. Trying this from two different paragraphs is recommended. (If you have any question about whether the text was copied from the draft, rather than the other way around (a "backwards copyvio"), the Wayback Machine is very useful for sussing that out.)

If you do find a copyright violation, please do not decline the draft on that basis. Copyright violations need to be dealt with immediately as they may harm those whose content is being used and expose Wikipedia to potential legal liability. If the draft is substantially a copyvio, and there's no non-infringing version to revert to, please mark the page for speedy deletion right away using {{db-g12|url=URL of source}}. If there is an assertion of permission, please replace the draft article's content with {{subst:copyvio|url=URL of source}}.

Some of the more obvious indicia of a copyvio are use of the first person ("we/our/us..."), phrases like "this site", or apparent artifacts of content written for somewhere else ("top", "go to top", "next page", "click here", use of smartquotes, etc.); inappropriate tone of voice, such as an overly informal tone or a very slanted marketing voice with weasel words; including intellectual property symbols (™,®); and blocks of text being added all at once in a finished form with no misspellings or other errors.

I hope this message finds you well and thanks again you for your efforts in this area. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 02:20, 18 November 2014 (UTC).

       Sent via--MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:20, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for November 18[edit]

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This week's article for improvement (week 48, 2014)[edit]

San Andrés Island Colombia.JPG

A beach on the island of San Andrés, a tourist destination in the Caribbean

Hello, Mark Miller.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Tourism in the Caribbean


Previous selections: Military technology • Everyday life


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Posted by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of EuroCarGT (talk) 00:38, 24 November 2014 (UTC) • Opt-out instructions

RfC United States same-sex marriage map[edit]

I opened up an RfC for the U.S. same-sex marriage map due to the complicated situation of Kansas: RfC: How should we color Kansas? Prcc27 (talk) 09:20, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for November 25[edit]

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Good bot. Thank you. I think I corrected both of those but will double check.--Mark Miller (talk) 06:25, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

New editor needs a barnstar[edit]

Awesome edit by a new editor I welcomed today.[3] One wonders how long that vandalism was in the article. Viriditas (talk) 08:20, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

That is a good catch but I am not clear if the decade change from the "1970's" to the "1960's" is accurate. I will look into it as I seem to remember hearing that Castro only became well known for it's Gay community after the opening of a certain bar and that it grew up as a center of Gay culture in the 70's after the Stonewall Riots of New York. Even on the West Coast, gay bars were routinely raided and closed by police. San Francisco's gay culture was an underground sub culture not really out in the open until the late 1960's and it's heyday in the early to mid 1970s, I believe.--Mark Miller (talk) 20:22, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
Good point. Thanks for looking into this. It's possible that part should be reverted back. Viriditas (talk) 23:41, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
I did a great deal of work on it and the section around it, copy edited and added references. I also moved the page per MOS for using "The" in the title as that is just a nickname and the most common name used is the Castro District.--Mark Miller (talk) 00:43, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, however you did a cut and paste move, which needs to be fixed. When you can't move an article, you're supposed to request a move on the talk page. Viriditas (talk) 02:10, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
Actually, we can move the content from one article to another in this manner when the page already exists as a simple redirect with a one line history.--Mark Miller (talk) 02:46, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
No, that's only for merges and splits. The redirect title already existed, which is why you couldn't do a move. When that happens, the procedure is to make a move request on the talk page using the move request template. Otherwise, you can try to have the redirect deleted to make way for the move. Those are your only two choices. Moving content from an article to a former redirect is a copy and paste move, and this is not recommended procedure for many reasons. Viriditas (talk) 03:38, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
Not true actually. While discouraged, full content copy paste moves are not against policy if done correctly. The only needed step was to ask for a history merge but the copy template, on top of the edit summary attribution was enough for the moment until the merge of the history was done if needed, but attribution was done properly for the full content merge.--Mark Miller (talk) 05:40, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
Happy Thanksgiving, Mark! I've never heard anyone argue for a copy and paste move, but I'll give you some reasons why it's a really bad idea: 1) that's what the "move" function is for, and if it isn't done properly, it can cause a host of problems with links, redirects, etc. 2) when you can't do a proper move due to existing redirects (like this situation) the procedure is to place a move request on the talk page. This is because a) notifying the talk page watchers of a move (especially in high-trafficked pages like this) is good practice as it may be disputed, and b) the move request, if non-controversial, places it in the queue for admins to review and take action (perform a histmerge). By doing a copy and paste move, you're creating more work out of process for other editors/admins to track down. Anyway, enjoy your feast. Viriditas (talk) 20:04, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
Note, I've placed histmerge requests on both the talk and article pages, which places it in the queue. I also removed the copy from template from the talk page, since that's only for merges and splits, not copy and paste moves. Viriditas (talk) 02:21, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
Actually per WP:FMERGE it can be used for copy paste moves as it is merely attribution for "copying" content in whole or in part. But it will not be needed if the histories are merged.--Mark Miller (talk) 02:43, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
I was just going to ask an admin on their talk page to do a history merge when they had time but I like to make sure proper attribution is made until histories are merged.--Mark Miller (talk) 02:48, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Before I venture an opinion, what needs to be history-merged to what? See WP:Parallel histories. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 22:25, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
    • Anthony, you already did the merge (The Castro > Castro) the other day. The reason I asked you over here was to comment on the two opinions in this discussion. Obviously, copy and paste moves aren't against policy because it's a mistake, and we don't forbid mistakes. But Mark argues that copy and paste moves are sometimes needed per the above; however, I don't agree with him. Viriditas (talk) 22:41, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Not really arguing that it is "needed". Very few things are "needed" on Wikipedia. I am arguing that it is possible and is technically not a mistake (especially when it is done on purpose) and that we have other policies and procedures in place to be sure we have proper attribution. The minimum attribution requirement when merging or copying content on Wikipedia is to use the edit summary with something like: "Content from [[This article]] is being copied into [[this other article]]". This allows editors who see this on a watch list to check the articles through direct links. We also have the copy template which has several versions depending on use. The edit history can then be merged by request as I have done before by asking a friendly admin who is not busy. The main issue here is copying all of the content from article to another. As long as the article it is being copied to is nothing more than a simple redirect with a one line history (or a simple bot edit) we may copy into that article but...and this is the part Viriditas may be most concerned with, is that the article not stand with just the attribution in summary or with the template but that the actual history be merged and I agree that is important.--Mark Miller (talk) 19:38, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
  • As I said above, mistakes are not against policy, and yes, when an editor copy and pastes without knowing about the move function, it's a mistake. When you can't perform a move, you request a move, you don't copy and paste the article into the redirect. I know you've talked quite a bit about how stubborn you are, Mark, but I know you aren't this stubborn! There's no good reason to copy and paste articles unless you 1) don't know about the move function, and 2) dont' know about requested moves. Can you think of a good reason to copy and paste move an article? I can't. Viriditas (talk) 04:00, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
As one of the members of Project Merge, I have a pretty good grasp of the merging and copying process Viriditas. Yes, I can be stubborn but this isn't what is going on. I researched and help write the steps for the project on how to merge articles properly and within guidelines and policies. If we were in a dispute over the article or title in any way than no, I would have to request a move, but if it is uncontroversial an editor may still do copy paste merges. There is a proper procedure for it. The only reason a "move" could not be done was because a redirect already existed....but one that had only a single line history. The issue is proper attribution and it was done in redundant manner to be sure it would be seen. A request to merge history can de done or asking an admin who isn't busy can also be done after. Seriously. It isn't something I wouldn't do all the time or often but it is still possible and not a violation of rules.--Mark Miller (talk) 06:54, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
If I understand correctly, a copy and paste move followed by a history merge will lead to the same result, except that there will be an extra entry in the history log that is artificial (the copy-and-paste edit will be in effect a null edit), which can be confusing to future editors. Given that this approach involves more work and produces a redundant history log entry, I suggest that in this scenario, deleting the target article and moving the original would be preferable. isaacl (talk) 13:56, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
I think deleting the target article first is indeed preferable for many reasons. The quickest way to do that is by asking an admin if it is uncontroversial and is the intent to then recreate the article by moving the other article. Requesting a move is not a bad idea either. I have used that process before but only when the move is controversial and requires a discussion and a consensus. Many articles on Wikipedia at this point, have several redirects. With Hawaiian related articles there are a good number that do not have the proper diacritics (special characters) in the article title and are not actively edited or have discussion underway on the talk page. Many are obscure stubs. At the moment there may still be a ban on special characters from being created even though there appears to be a consensus that the ban on special characters is only for those characters that effect the Wiki mark-up. Some article can be moved (as only one characters seems to be ban listed..can't remember which one at the moment) normally but many will require the target article that was created as a redirect be deleted first so that the article can be renamed by an admin or through requested moves (as there are bound to be some controversial moves or use of diacritics or not to use etc.).--Mark Miller (talk) 21:00, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
The best way is to discuss it on the talk page first, and then submit a request for move for highly trafficked pages. Viriditas (talk) 04:24, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Alii and Aliʻi[edit]

I don't understand why we now have two articles on Alii and Aliʻi, both of which are short articles on the same, exact subject. Viriditas (talk) 20:14, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Alii is about the broad use in different Polynesian languages that also included Ariki. Aliʻi is specifically about the Hawaiian nobility that made up the majority of Hawaiian ancient history and became the nobles of the Hawaiian Kingdom. However...I noticed something after I created that from the redirect with a particle content merge (does not need a history merge). There are two articles with nearly the same title that include the ʻokina. Both were redirects, however the one I used seems to have a hidden special character and I don't think it is an actual spelling of the word. This will need to be copied over to the correct article and have an admin delete the other redirect as not a word. The article I believe is the correct spelling with no hiden characters is Ali‘i.--Mark Miller (talk) 19:49, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
I appreciate your explanation, but I'm not seeing two different articles. Alii is the original article about Hawaiian nobility. It was created in June 2004 and remained focused on this primary topic until you copied the material on November 24 and created a duplicate article with the same name, except for the addition of an okina.[4] Again, we've lost the page history since 2004 due to this fork, duplication, and copy and paste job. If there were two distinct topics (there aren't at this time) we would have good sources and content supporting it. The reason the topic has remained at Alii since 2004 (prior to your fork) is because until recently, we couldn't handle diacritics and okinas. My hope is that you will temporarily agree to stop cutting and pasting articles and duplicating articles. The original page history on Hawaiian nobility currently resides at Alii. If you want to request a move from that title to another, then you make the request on the talk page, we discuss it, and then the page gets moved with the page history intact. Viriditas (talk) 03:57, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
Alii was not about the Hawaiian word, but, as I already said, the broad use of a similar word and words in other Polynesian languages. I split off the section on the Hawaiian Ali‘i to it's own article and properly attributed the split (even went back and made dummy edits to be sure and use the word "split"). We do not merge histories in this case and we do not request moves to do splits. Now..if you truly object to the split, that is different and we would need to discuss it, but I created the article because there are far more links to Ali‘i in the context of Hawaiian nobility and I have begun to drastically expand the encyclopedic content of the Hawaiian use and would like to expand the non Hawaiian uses on Alii eventually.--Mark Miller (talk) 04:23, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
It doesn't appear that you read my comment. As I said up above, Alii was most certainly about the Hawaiian word, regardless of its shared use. As you can see in the lead, the proper term used was "Aliʻi", but we had it at Alii because we once had problems with diacritics and okinas. The last good version from May 14, 2013, proves this is true.[5] Unfortunately, we have now lost the entire page history because you copied and pasted it to a duplicate fork, which only shows your edits, not the edits of other editors. I've explained this to you several times already with no sign of understanding on your end. Please stop copy and pasting articles. When you do so, we lose the page history. As it stands, we now have two duplicate articles on the same exact subject, and that's just not acceptable. Viriditas (talk) 04:23, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
Viriditas, I actually appreciate your concerns and that you feel it important enough to stress your understanding of the situation. This is what I am going to do; First, I am going to review this thread to make sure I am understanding you and that I believe you are following me. Next, I will review the project merge standards t see if and where I may have varied from what we have decided was the proper procedures for copying, and merging within Wikipedia and review the current guidelines and procedures again. Just remember that, we have no set rules and I am not attempting to do an end run around a consensus or cheat on a dispute. The edits were non controversial and were improvements to the articles from my stand point. Consensus determines all content on Wikipedia so...if you object to something, lets talk but...I don't understand one thing; You don't seem to accept that the Aliʻi article is a split from Alii. Is this correct? If so, why?--Mark Miller (talk) 07:36, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Per WP:CONSPLIT:

Content split

Sometimes two or more distinct topics may share the same or similar title, such as "light", which may refer to electromagnetic radiation, a component that produces light or spiritual illumination. Sometimes the distinct topics may be closely related, such as Coffea (the plant) and coffee (the product), or thermal energy and heat.
When two or more distinct topics which share the same or similar title are being written about on the same page, even if they are closely related, a content split may be considered, and a disambiguation page created to point readers to the separate pages. Consideration must be given both to notability and to potential neutrality issues before proposing a split. If one or more of the topics is not notable it may be more appropriate to simply remove the material from Wikipedia than to create a new article.
If unsure, then use a template, and start a discussion on the article talkpage.

--Mark Miller (talk) 07:45, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

The Aliʻi article is only about the Hawaiian language word. Not about the various Polynesian words that the original article, Alii is about. The original article does cover the subject but I feel it deserves and can support a full stand alone article with a link on the old page. Their meanings vary and the people and places are completely different. 1500 years separate Hawaiian history from Polynesia and Tahiti and there are many links to the Hawaiian word that I have encountered in a number of articles referring strictly to the Hawaiian language use. Per Wikipedia:Content forking:

A content fork is the creation of multiple separate articles all treating the same subject. Content forks that are created unintentionally result in redundant or conflicting articles and are to be avoided. On the other hand, as an article grows, editors often create summary-style spin-offs or new, linked article for related material. This is acceptable, and often encouraged, as a way of making articles clearer and easier to manage.

--Mark Miller (talk) 07:49, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

The most important part of all of this is proper attribution. Per WP:PATT

Proper attribution

Attribution can be provided in any of the fashions detailed in the Terms of Use (listed above), although methods (a) and (c) — i.e., through a hyperlink (where possible) or URL to the article or articles you contributed to; or through a list of all authors — are the most practical for transferring text from one Wikipedia page to another. Both methods have strengths and weaknesses, but either satisfies the licensing requirements if properly done.

Hyperlink
If material has been contributed by more than one author, providing a link in the edit summary is the simplest method of providing attribution. A statement in the edit summary such as copied content from [[article name]]; see that article's history for attribution will direct interested parties to the edit history of the source page, where they can trace exactly who added what content when. A disadvantage with this method is that the page history of the original article must subsequently be retained in order to maintain attribution. To avoid the source page being inadvertently moved or deleted, it is helpful to make a note of the copying on the talk page of the source article. The template {{copied}} can be used for this purpose. This template can also be added to the destination talk page.
List of authors
When dealing with a page edited by many, a hyperlink is the simplest solution, but if the content being copied has only one contributor, it may be preferable simply to list him or her individually. Using this method, the edit history of the source page is unnecessary, and it will not matter if the source page is later deleted or moved. A statement in the edit summary such as text originally contributed by [[User:Example]] on 2015 25 May serves as full attribution. If the material being copied has more than one author, attribution requirements can technically be satisfied with a note in edit summary directing attention to a list of contributors on the talk page, but as the Terms of Service indicate, a hyperlink is preferred where possible.

--Mark Miller (talk) 08:01, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 26 November 2014[edit]

This week's article for improvement (week 49, 2014)[edit]

Us-mexico-border.jpg

The Mexico–United States border spans six Mexican states and four U.S. states, with a total length of 3,145 km (1,954 mi).

Hello, Mark Miller.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Mexico–United States border


Previous selections: Tourism in the Caribbean • Military technology


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Hutcherson FAC[edit]

Hey Mark, do you plan to return to the FAC and leave some more comments? Wondering because as I commented there, I've taken care of the comprehensiveness concern, I believe, and if I haven't I was looking for more input on what could be included and improved. Best, Gloss 02:23, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

? Gloss 05:32, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
Sorry. A tad busy with research and I hit some gold and have been flying pouring over documents and websites. No, probably not. Sorry. It really needs much expansion. I know it seems like there is nothing left to write but biographies are not so much what you write, but how you summarize the most notable aspects and tie in the less notable for mention. You don't want puffery but you do want something broader in coverage to be more comprehensive.--Mark Miller (talk) 05:36, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
That's what I'm confused about. For someone who is only 21 and been in about 5/6 major films, how much do you think can be expanded? This isn't someone who has lived a long life and had a full career. He is 21 and just getting started with his adult career. There really isn't much to be expanded. It would've been helpful if you could've provided more insight, but you seem busy. So long. Gloss 05:55, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Safe to assume your concerns have been taken care of since you've not returned to the FAC? Gloss 17:21, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Seasons Greetings[edit]

Pine cone on pine tree.jpg Happy holidays.
Best wishes for joy and happiness to you and all your loved ones from ```Buster Seven Talk 09:21, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
Thanks Buster!--Mark Miller (talk) 05:36, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Revert Only When Necessary[edit]

Please see #2 on this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Revert_only_when_necessary#Unacceptable_reversions Don't revert an edit because it is unnecessary — because it does not improve the article. For a reversion to be appropriate, the reverted edit must actually make the article worse. 50.48.205.73 (talk) 03:03, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

That is an essay. Essays are not guidelines or policy. Please use the BRD talk page to gain a consensus for the change and base it on actual guidelines and policy. I feel reverting you now should acceptable for restoring the BRD lede that was altered using another essay as the basis for the change. --Mark Miller (talk) 04:22, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
Someone beat me to it. Please make your proposal on the talk page an editors will discuss it, but the two essays do not have to agree and changes to BRD should have a basis in guidelines or policy.--Mark Miller (talk) 04:24, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 03 December 2014[edit]

WP:Co-op[edit]

Hey Mark,

I'm Soni, and currently, I'm working on a mentorship space for newcomers on Wikipedia, called the Co-op. Our basic idea is to have a friendly space where experienced editors can provide one-to-one guidance to newcomers based on what their interests are, and where they want to contribute onWiki. Given that you already have experience with the Teahouse, your experience should come in really helpful for us. We expect there to be not too much of a commitment as every mentor only takes up upto 2 newcomers under them. If you're interested in participating in the pilot project in January and February, please sign up here. I'll be around to answer any doubts or questions that you may have, so please feel free to ping me if needed.

Cheers, Soni (talk) (Previously TheOriginalSoni) 23:29, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Nominations for the Military history Wikiproject's Historian and Newcomer of the Year Awards are now open![edit]

The Military history Wikiproject has opened nominations for the Military historian of the year and Military history newcomer of the year. Nominations will be accepted until 13 December at 23:59 GMT, with voting to begin at 0:00 GMT 14 December. The voting will conclude on 21 December. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:41, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

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WikiCup 2015 is just around the corner...[edit]

Hello everyone, and may we wish you all a happy holiday season. As you will probably already know, the 2015 WikiCup begins in the new year; there is still time to sign up. We have a few important announcements concerning the future of the WikiCup.

  • We would like to announce that Josh (J Milburn) and Ed (The ed17), who have been WikiCup judges since 2009 and 2010 respectively, are stepping down. This decision has been made for a number of reasons, but the main one is time. Both Josh and Ed have found that, over the previous year, they have been unable to devote the time necessary to the WikiCup, and it is not likely that they will be able to do this in the near future. Furthermore, new people at the helm can only help to invigorate the WikiCup and keep it dynamic. Josh and Ed will still be around, and will likely be participating in the Cup this following year as competitors, which is where both started out.
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  • The discussions/polls concerning the next competition's rules will be closed soon, and rules changes will be made clear on Wikipedia:WikiCup/Scoring and talk pages. While it may be impossible to please everyone, the judges will make every effort to ensure that the new rules are both fair and in the best interests of the competition, which is, first and foremost, about improving Wikipedia.

If you have any questions or concerns, the judges can be reached on Wikipedia talk:WikiCup, on their talk pages, or by email. We hope you will all join us in trying to make the 2015 WikiCup the most productive and enjoyable yet. You are receiving this message because you are listed on Wikipedia:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. J Milburn (talk), The ed17 (talk), Miyagawa (talk), Sturmvogel 66 (talk) and Figureskatingfan (talk) 18:53, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Beamer family tree[edit]

First of all, I am IMPRESSED by your work on this. I've done a couple of family trees, but used a different type of tree. I never could figure out how to work with the type you use.

Secondly, because I notice you are putting the tree on multiple Beamer articles, I thought I might suggest you create a template for the tree, and then transclude it on the individual articles. Then you only have do each update on the template. An added benefit to that is that drive-by editors who think they know the subject better than you, would also have to know they're just looking at a transclusion. So far, that's kept mine safe from the hanky-panky non autoconfirmed attempts. Do whatever works for you. But I found the Transclusion method is a real time saver when I did the Template:Houston family tree. — Maile (talk) 21:44, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Thank you so much! I had a lot of fun researching this out the other night when I fell on some names with a Google search. That template you created is fantastic. Yes, I will be making that as a template but I want to try and do a little more research on this.--Mark Miller (talk) 21:50, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
Your template looks good. — Maile (talk) 23:38, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. I figured I can still update it as I need to.--Mark Miller (talk) 00:05, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 50, 2014)[edit]

Math games - Big Brother Mouse activity day.jpg

Game design is the art of creating rules and mechanics to facilitate interactions between players in a game.

Hello, Mark Miller.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Game design


Previous selections: Mexico–United States border • Tourism in the Caribbean


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Posted by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of EuroCarGT (talk) 00:25, 8 December 2014 (UTC) • Opt-out instructions

GOCE coordinator elections[edit]

Greetings from the Guild of Copy Editors
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Candidate nominations for Guild coordinators to serve from January 1 to June 30, 2015, are currently underway. The nomination period will close at 23:59 on December 15 (UTC), after which voting will commence until 23:59 on December 31, 2014. Self-nominations are welcomed. Please consider getting involved; it's your Guild and it won't coordinate itself, so if you'd like to help coordinate Guild activities we'd love to hear from you.

Cheers from your GOCE coordinators Jonesey95, Baffle gab1978, and Miniapolis.
Message sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:17, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 10 December 2014[edit]

Athena as weather goddess[edit]

Re this edit, while Zeus was certainly the most important sky and weather god for the Greeks, Athena was perhaps also one, see [6]. Paul August 12:52, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Don't you think we should have a stronger main stream academic opinion to show a category?--Mark Miller (talk) 21:56, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
Probably so. Paul August 03:11, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

December 2014 GOCE newsletter[edit]

Guild of Copy Editors December 2014 Newsletter
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Drive: Thanks to everyone who participated in November's Backlog Elimination Drive. Of the 43 people who signed up for this drive, 26 copy edited at least one article. Final results, including barnstars awarded, are available here.

Progress report: The November Drive removed 26 requests from the Requests page and 509 articles from the {{copy edit}} backlog. We copy edited 83 articles tagged in the target months; July, August, and September 2013. Together with tag removals from articles unsuitable for copy editing, we eliminated July 2013 from the backlog and reduced August and September's tags to 61 and 70 respectively. As of 01:01, 1 December 2014 (UTC), the backlog stood at 1,974 articles, dipping below 2,000 for the first time in the Guild's history (see graph at right). Well done everyone!

Blitz: The December Blitz will run from December 14–20 and will focus on articles related to Religion, in recognition of this month's religious holidays in much of the English-speaking world. Awards will be given out to everyone who copy edits at least one of the target articles. Sign up here!

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Thank you all once again for your participation; we wouldn't be able to achieve anything without you! Cheers from your GOCE coordinators Jonesey95, Baffle gab1978, and Miniapolis.

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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 03:15, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 51, 2014)[edit]

Spaghetti with Meatballs (cropped).jpg

A plate of spaghetti and meatballs.

Hello, Mark Miller.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Spaghetti


Previous selections: Game design • Mexico–United States border


Get involved with the TAFI project! You can...
Posted by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of EuroCarGT (talk) 00:22, 15 December 2014 (UTC) • Opt-out instructions

Voting for the Military historian and Military newcomer of the year now open![edit]

Nominations for the military historian of the year and military newcomer of the year have now closed, and voting for the candidates has officially opened. All project members are invited to cast there votes for the Military historian and Military newcomer of the year candidates before the elections close at 23:59 December 21st. For the coordinators, TomStar81

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:33, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Need help with a template[edit]

A user just copied a small bit of material I wrote for The Magpie (Monet) into a new article, Winter in Western Art. While this is OK, they didn't use any attribution during the copy/past/merge. Recently, per WP:PATT, they added a message on the talk page. However, you have knowledge of a particular template used for this purpose that I don't know about. Could you either point me to this template or add it to Talk:Winter in Western Art, replacing the current attribution message that is there? Thanks, and you don't need to include my user name, just the article names. Viriditas (talk) 00:33, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Sure. No problem.--Mark Miller (talk) 00:34, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. Viriditas (talk) 01:07, 15 December 2014 (UTC)


It was a note that it was the draft that made its way into the article somehow. From here User:Sca/sandbox#Selected quotations re Monet. It does say too: (Except for the material in parentheses, these are all direct quoets.). It just got into the article somehow. Removed now. Hafspajen (talk) 01:37, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Precious again[edit]

Cornflower blue Yogo sapphire.jpg

Editor retention
Thank you for quality contributions on difficult topics such as Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting, for your work in editor retention, even in difficult cases, for presenting facts "in a neutral fashion, with compassion, understanding and a calm demeanor", - you are an awesome Wikipedian!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:32, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Two years ago, you were the 337th recipient of my PumpkinSky Prize, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:19, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Thank you so much again Gerda!--Mark Miller (talk) 07:25, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 17 December 2014[edit]

A page you started (Ruling chiefs of Hawaii) has been reviewed![edit]

Thanks for creating Ruling chiefs of Hawaii, Mark Miller!

Wikipedia editor Lstanley1979 just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

I'm sure you know what you're doing, but just reviewing your article. Nice work!

To reply, leave a comment on Lstanley1979's talk page.

Learn more about page curation.

Thank you very much! I appreciate the review.--Mark Miller (talk) 19:46, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

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This week's article for improvement (week 52, 2014)[edit]

Hello, Mark Miller.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Natural phenomenon


Previous selections: Spaghetti • Game design


Get involved with the TAFI project! You can...
Posted by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of EuroCarGT (talk) 00:07, 22 December 2014 (UTC) • Opt-out instructions

GOCE holiday 2014 newsletter[edit]

Guild of Copy Editors Late December 2014 Newsletter
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Blitz: Thanks to everyone who participated in the December Blitz. Of the 14 editors who signed up for the blitz, 11 copyedited at least one article. Final results, including barnstars awarded, are available here.

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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:44, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 24 December 2014[edit]

Bright Hawaiian Christmas[edit]

Indeed. You and I are about as far away as we can be and be agreed by the contentious editors at United States to be in the United States. (There is quarreling about the territories, but not the 50 states and the District of Columbia.) What is considered a warm Christmas in Washington, somewhat above 50 F / 10 C, would probably be a record low in the fiftieth state, and we get nine hours of daylight. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:38, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 1, 2015)[edit]

Hello, Mark Miller.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Skyline


Previous selections: Natural phenomenon • Spaghetti


Get involved with the TAFI project! You can...
Posted by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of EuroCarGT (talk) 00:18, 29 December 2014 (UTC) • Opt-out instructions

Edit a thon[edit]

Mark - I sent you an email about a week ago. We're considering moving the edit-a-thon back a few months. Are you still planning a visit here? Why don't we try to schedule it for while you are here?--v/r - TP 20:14, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up TParis. It looks like my incoming e-mails have shut down again. I have been having issues. I need to establish a secondary e-mail at this point but I don't use email much.--Mark Miller (talk) 21:46, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
So about the trip, any date set yet?--v/r - TP 19:21, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
Not yet. We wanted to wait until after January 4th to begin making serious plans but we were just talking about it today. We don't want to visit Hawaii in the summer. Last year was brutal from everything people were saying, so I am hoping for spring.--Mark Miller (talk) 23:51, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
Okay - I am taking a trip to Texas in April so if you want to meet up or do the edit-a-thon, that would be a bad month.--v/r - TP 03:16, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
Got it. I will let you know as soon as plans are set.--Mark Miller (talk) 03:18, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
Hey Mark, any news? I can work around your schedule if you let me know what it is.--v/r - TP 19:39, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
I'll send you an e-mail.--Mark Miller (talk) 06:34, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
FWIW, if there is any interest in them, I saw that archive.org and open library have a two volume PD "Men of Hawaii" biographical dictionary and at least a few other academic type sources on things like native myths and ethnic groups. They could all be used John Carter (talk) 17:11, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks John Carter. There are actually a couple of updated versions of those books as well I believe. I found a wealth of information for my genealogy research and have used it a few times on Wikipedia.--Mark Miller (talk) 17:52, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Have a bacon-filled new year![edit]

Bacon editors.png

As a member of WikiProject Bacon, I'm wishing you a very happy New Year's Eve and a great 2015! May your new year be filled with positive experiences, great wiki contributions, and of course, well-smoked thin-cut bacon. ~SuperHamster Talk Contribs 01:42, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

I am...in fact...enjoying bacon and cream cheese pinwheels right now SuperHamster.--Mark Miller (talk) 03:14, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Happy New Year Mark Miller![edit]

DYK for Ruling chiefs of Hawaii[edit]

Harrias talk 12:01, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Nice. I was expecting to see a big list of chiefs and dates of rule in it though. Can you create a list?♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:05, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Thank you so much! Yes. I am actually planning that. I am starting with the Fornander lists. I just need to decide how to present the list.--Mark Miller (talk) 19:55, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

WikiCup 2015 launch newsletter[edit]

Trophy.png

Round one of the 2015 WikiCup has begun! So far we've had around 80 signups, which close on February 5. If you have not already signed up and want to do so, then you can add your name here. There have been changes to to several of the points scores for various categories, and the addition of Peer Reviews for the first time. These will work in the same manner as Good Article Reviews, and all of the changes are summarised here.

Remember that only the top 64 scoring competitors will make it through to the second round, and one of the new changes this year is that all scores must be claimed within two weeks of an article's promotion or appearance, so don't forget to add them to your submissions pages! If you are concerned that your nomination will not receive the necessary reviews, and you hope to get it promoted before the end of the round, please list it on Wikipedia:WikiCup/Reviews. However, please remember to continue to offer reviews at GAN, FAC and all the other pages that require them to prevent any backlogs which could otherwise be caused by the Cup. As ever, questions are welcome on Wikipedia talk:WikiCup and the judges are reachable on their talk pages. Good luck! Figureskatingfan (talk · contribs), Miyagawa (talk · contribs) and Sturmvogel 66 (talk · contribs)
If you wish to opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself from the mailing list or alternatively to opt-out of all massmessage mailings, you may add Category:Opted-out of message delivery to your user talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 20:51, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 31 December 2014[edit]

GOCE 2014 report[edit]

Guild of Copy Editors 2014 Annual Report
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Our 2014 Annual Report is now ready for review.

Highlights:

  • Summary of Drives, Blitzes, and the Requests page;
  • Review the election results;
  • Membership news;
  • Changes around the Guild's pages;
  • Plans for 2015.
– Your project coordinators: Jonesey95, Miniapolis and Baffle gab1978.
To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list. Newsletter delivered by

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:55, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 2, 2015)[edit]

Afwasmiddel.jpg

Dishwashing liquid is a detergent used in dishwashing

Hello, Mark Miller.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Dishwashing liquid


Previous selections: Skyline • Natural phenomenon


Get involved with the TAFI project! You can...
Posted by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of EuroCarGT (talk) 00:18, 5 January 2015 (UTC) • Opt-out instructions

DRN needs assistance[edit]

You are receiving this message because you have listed yourself as a volunteer at the Dispute Resolution Noticeboard.

We have a backlog of cases there which need volunteer attention. If you have time available, please take one or more of these cases.

If you do not intend to take cases or help with the administration of DRN on a regular basis, or if you do not wish to receive further notices of this nature, please remove your username from the volunteer list. If you later decide to resume activities at DRN you may relist your name at that time.

Best regards, TransporterMan 15:52, 8 January 2015 (UTC) (current DRN coordinator)

The Signpost: 07 January 2015[edit]

Infobox photo discussion[edit]

Hi again. Happy New Year. Can you offer your opinion on which photo is better for the Infobox here? If you're not able to participate, just disregard this message; you don't have to message me. Thanks. Nightscream (talk) 01:04, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 3, 2015)[edit]

Mongol Empire map.gif

The history of Mongolia includes the foundation, expansion, and fragmentation of the Mongol Empire in the 13th century

Hello, Mark Miller.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

History of Mongolia


Previous selections: Dishwashing liquid • Skyline


Get involved with the TAFI project! You can...
Posted by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of EuroCarGT (talk) 00:09, 12 January 2015 (UTC) • Opt-out instructions

The Signpost: 14 January 2015[edit]

This week's article for improvement (week 4, 2015)[edit]

The accompanying prose description.jpg

An example of prose, a type of writing that simulates the natural flow of language

Hello, Mark Miller.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Prose


Previous selections: History of Mongolia • Dishwashing liquid


Get involved with the TAFI project! You can...
Posted by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of EuroCarGT (talk) 00:22, 19 January 2015 (UTC) • Opt-out instructions


I Give Up (You Win)[edit]

So, the article on Income Inequality in the United States was completely rewritten, with the express purpose of eliminating all contrary / alternative discussion ...

READ ABOUT MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCES WITH POLITICAL BIAS AT WIKIPEDIA: http://wikibias.blogspot.com

RECOMMENDATIONS FOR WIKIPEDIA: I have a number of recommendations for Wikipedia, if they desire to be a respected and neutral information resource: First, you need to clearly understand how socio-politically monolithic your editors really are. You can start by tracking the selection of your userboxes by your editors. I believe that this simple action will enable you to gain a better understanding of the philosophy of your demographic (it might also help to have one or two pro-business/entrepreneur userboxes too). Second, you must accept and address the fact that the majority of your socio-economic and political articles are being policed not only by paid political operatives, but also loosely-associated activists, who cling together to repel any editor input that is seen as a threat to their narrative. Third, the concept of 'editor consensus' that is the operational cornerstone of your site is horrendously flawed. It may seemingly create a more peaceful editing environment, but the downside of consensus is that it devolves into group-think and hive-mind behavior. It also snuffs-out alternative or contrary perspectives and it leads to frustration, vandalism, and constant edit-warring. Ultimately, those with a different world-view are perniciously rejected ... and ejected (such as my case)... from the process, which further solidifies your problematic singular mindset. Fourth, the mediation process, overlaid by your consensus requirements, is completely useless and should either be modified or removed. Mediation Rule: Prerequisite #5 (Acceptance by a majority of parties) makes it practically impossible for alternative input to survive if challenged editors can shut down mediation by simply opting out of the process, with the net result being that their 'defended' work still stands. Considering this, why would any editor ever accept mediation? Fifth, all of the above four issues revolve around the same problem ... the vast majority of your editors are significantly skewed to the left ... philosophically, socially, and politically. One of the stated goals of Wikipedia is to be 'neutral' and impartial in the presentation of its subject-matter, yet how can this be achieved if its editorship composition, promoted by its consensus and mediation practices, protects a singular world-view? If it truly believes in those stated goals, Wikipedia must make a proactive decision to engage, involve (and at times protect) a broader spectrum of editors. Wikipedia needs to actively facilitate their input, particularly when it comes to contentious topics. This can be achieved by involving Wikipedia administrators (and/or senior editor volunteers) who are sensitive to the issue and more representative of a broader perspective. Their involvement could provide balance in conflict situations such as mine. The worst feeling in the world as a Wiki-editor is fighting an onslaught of editors who do not share your opinion, while those who support you have to anonymously cower in the dark and helplessly watch you take the beating from a distance out of fear of similar intimidation or retribution.

Wikipedia needs editors like me. But trying to bring balance in this environment is like slamming my head against a wall. I am done.

Wikipedia Editor: Tolinjr

What? Tolinjr--Mark Miller (talk) 23:01, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
Come on over to his talk page and join the discussion. He needs more Wiki-friends. Viriditas (talk) 00:30, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
His talk page has been censored, the post removed and the editor accused of violating guidelines. I see a block for criticizing the status quo in 5, 4, 3..... (and yeah, Wikipedia does need editor like you but...be careful). I see no issues with the above post and is not polemic. It is critical of the process and the outcome, but is well written and well thought out, does not use name calling or passive aggressive personal attacks. In short, placed here and on their on talk page, this IS THE EXACT REASON WE HAVE TALK PAGES!!!--Mark Miller (talk) 21:22, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
You have a point. How about helping him write a user page in his sandbox? I've got a better idea. Help him turn his user page into a Wikipedia essay. That should do the trick. What do you think? Viriditas (talk) 04:46, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
Not a bad idea. Most essays come from situations just like this.--Mark Miller (talk) 06:02, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
I've noticed the exact same thing and will be using your explanation in that it defines the bias and the way politics is hidden in the veil of consensus. I am a new editor and you MarkMiller look like you've been here for a while so I am led to believe you know what is going on. I pinged you on another topic and hope you will take a look.ChicagoGuy11 (talk) 00:24, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Million award![edit]

Million award logo.svg The Million Award
For your contributions to bring United States (estimated annual readership: 11,740,000) to Good Article status, I hereby present you the Million Award. Congratulations on this rare accomplishment, and thanks for all you do for Wikipedia's readers! -- Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 17:05, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
Wow. Thank you!--Mark Miller (talk) 02:55, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 21 January 2015[edit]

This week's article for improvement (week 5, 2015)[edit]

Beethoven symphony 5 opening.svg

The opening of the Beethoven Symphony No. 5, a famous symphony.

Hello, Mark Miller.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Symphony


Previous selections: Prose • History of Mongolia


Get involved with the TAFI project! You can...
Posted by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of EuroCarGT (talk) 00:33, 26 January 2015 (UTC) • Opt-out instructions


As a WER coordinator[edit]

I wonder if you could add Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Editor Retention/Editor of the Week/Nominations to your watchlist. I don't expect you to second nominations (that is what the page is for, although that would nice). Rarely there is a discussion regarding policy. There is one now. Your input would be helpful. Buster Seven Talk 21:35, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

I have been very busy with research on Hawaiian History and genealogy and everything else seems to have fallen to the side. I'll take a look.--Mark Miller (talk) 23:50, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks Mark. You've got mail. Buster7 (talk) 03:17, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Oh...wait...let me update my e-mail. My old service is crap after they sold out to another company and I finally started g-mail.--Mark Miller (talk) 00:27, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Mark. Its outdated but I sent a copy anyway.... . Buster Seven Talk 09:56, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 28 January 2015[edit]

This week's article for improvement (week 6, 2015)[edit]

Liofilizat 04 pl.jpg

Freeze dried coffee, an example of the application of food science

Hello, Mark Miller.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Food science


Previous selections: Symphony • Prose


Get involved with the TAFI project! You can...
Posted by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of EuroCarGT (talk) 00:29, 2 February 2015 (UTC) • Opt-out instructions

The Signpost: 04 February 2015[edit]

February 2015 GOCE newsletter[edit]

Guild of Copy Editors February 2015 Newsletter
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Copyeditors progress.png

Drive: Thanks to everyone who participated in January's Backlog Elimination Drive. Of the 38 people who signed up for this drive, 21 copyedited at least one article. Final results, including barnstars awarded, are available here.

Progress report: We were able to remove August 2013 from the general copyediting backlog and November 2014 from the request-page backlog. Many thanks, everyone!

Blitz: The February Blitz will run from February 15–21 and again focuses on the requests page. Awards will be given to everyone who copyedits at least one request article. Sign up here!

Thank you all again for your participation; we wouldn't be able to achieve what we have without you! Cheers from your GOCE coordinators Miniapolis, Jonesey95, Biblioworm and Philg88.

To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list.

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:52, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 7, 2015)[edit]

Empire Field near empty.jpg

Empire Field, stadium made with temporary structures, cheaper than permanent.

Hello, Mark Miller.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Stadium


Previous selections: Food science • Symphony


Get involved with the TAFI project! You can...
Posted by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of EuroCarGT (talk) 00:16, 9 February 2015 (UTC) • Opt-out instructions

The Signpost: 11 February 2015[edit]

Reply from new editor[edit]

I dunno what u mean besides another editor who's been blocked uses my account sometimes it wasn't me...I really dunno watcha mean,esp. The bit about OUR BLP?? I was under the assumption Wikipedia was for everyone not just a privileged elite few??..bureaucracy is everywhere..SOABs ---06:19, 10 February 2015‎ Wikinatic08 Talk

Talk page[edit]

I've replied to your message on my talk page. hbdragon88 (talk) 19:02, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 8, 2015)[edit]

Sicilian ice cream parlor.jpg

A Sicilian ice cream parlour

Hello, Mark Miller.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Ice cream parlour


Previous selections: Stadium • Food science


Get involved with the TAFI project! You can...
Posted by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of EuroCarGT (talk) 00:27, 16 February 2015 (UTC) • Opt-out instructions

American Sniper[edit]

Please see the latest discussion at Talk:American Sniper (film)#The following report was cut out from the article. Two editors are completely opposed to mentioning anything about the ADC despite its statement being reported by numerous reliable sources. They are projecting their own view of the ADC and are shaping the article based on that, which goes against WP:DUE, as I stated in the discussion above. Please consider this behavior as part of resolving the dispute. Thanks, Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me) 13:38, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. I am almost ready to make some further comments and decision on whether to open the DRN. I took time to wait on this and familiarize myself with the film somewhat and the controversies.--Mark Miller (talk) 23:58, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 18 February 2015[edit]

GOCE March newsletter[edit]

Guild of Copy Editors March 2015 Newsletter
Writing Magnifying.PNG

Copyeditors progress.png

Blitz: Thanks to everyone who participated in the February Blitz. Of the 21 people who signed up, eight copyedited at least one article. Final results, including barnstars awarded, are available here.

Progress report: The blitz removed 16 articles from the requests list, and we're almost done with December 2014. Many thanks, everyone!

Drive: The month-long March drive begins in about a week. Awards will be given to everyone who copyedits at least one article from the backlog. Sign up here!

Thank you all again for your participation; we wouldn't be able to achieve what we have without you! Cheers from your GOCE coordinators Miniapolis, Jonesey95, Biblioworm and Philg88.

To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list.

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:41, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 9, 2015)[edit]

Trailer Park Trash.jpg

Trailer Trash is a US derogatory term for poor people living in trailers or caravans. It appears that these trailer trash happen to live on a trailer park.

Hello, Mark Miller.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Trailer Trash


Previous selections: Ice cream parlour • Stadium


Get involved with the TAFI project! You can...
Posted by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of EuroCarGT (talk) 00:55, 23 February 2015 (UTC) • Opt-out instructions

The Signpost: 25 February 2015[edit]

The Signpost: 25 February 2015[edit]

WikiCup 2015 March newsletter[edit]

One of several of Godot13's quality submissions during round 1

That's it, the first round is done, sign-ups are closed and we're into round 2. 64 competitors made it into this round, and are now broken into eight groups of eight. The top two of each group will go through to round 3, and then the top scoring 16 "wildcards" across all groups. Round 1 saw some interesting work on some very important articles, with the round leader Australia Freikorp (submissions) owing most of his 622 points scored to a Featured Article on the 2001 film Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within which qualified for a times-two multiplier. This is a higher score than in previous years, as Smithsonian Institution Godot13 (submissions) had 500 points in 2014 at the end of round 1, and our very own judge, Colorado Sturmvogel_66 (submissions) led round 1 with 601 points in 2013.

In addition to Freikorp's work, some other important articles and pictures were improved during round one, here's a snapshot of a few of them:

You may also wish to know that The Core Contest is running through the month of March. Head there for further details - they even have actual prizes!

If you are concerned that your nomination—whether it is at good article candidates, a featured process, or anywhere else—will not receive the necessary reviews, please list it on Wikipedia:WikiCup/Reviews. Questions are welcome on Wikipedia talk:WikiCup, and the judges are reachable on their talk pages or by email. Good luck! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from Wikipedia:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. Figureskatingfan (talk · contribs · email), Miyagawa (talk · contribs · email) and Sturmvogel 66 (talk · contribs · email)

Thanks for your assistance! Miyagawa (talk) on behalf of Wikipedia:WikiCup.

(Opt-out Instructions) This message was send by Jim Carter through MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 04:54, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

WikiCup 2015 March newsletter[edit]

One of several of Godot13's quality submissions during round 1

That's it, the first round is done, sign-ups are closed and we're into round 2. 64 competitors made it into this round, and are now broken into eight groups of eight. The top two of each group will go through to round 3, and then the top scoring 16 "wildcards" across all groups. Round 1 saw some interesting work on some very important articles, with the round leader Australia Freikorp (submissions) owing most of his 622 points scored to a Featured Article on the 2001 film Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within which qualified for a times-two multiplier. This is a higher score than in previous years, as Smithsonian Institution Godot13 (submissions) had 500 points in 2014 at the end of round 1, and our very own judge, Colorado Sturmvogel_66 (submissions) led round 1 with 601 points in 2013.

In addition to Freikorp's work, some other important articles and pictures were improved during round one, here's a snapshot of a few of them:

You may also wish to know that The Core Contest is running through the month of March. Head there for further details - they even have actual prizes!

If you are concerned that your nomination—whether it is at good article candidates, a featured process, or anywhere else—will not receive the necessary reviews, please list it on Wikipedia:WikiCup/Reviews. Questions are welcome on Wikipedia talk:WikiCup, and the judges are reachable on their talk pages or by email. Good luck! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from Wikipedia:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. Figureskatingfan (talk · contribs · email), Miyagawa (talk · contribs · email) and Sturmvogel 66 (talk · contribs · email)

Thanks for your assistance! Miyagawa (talk) on behalf of Wikipedia:WikiCup.

(Opt-out Instructions) This message was send by Jim Carter through MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 05:55, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 10, 2015)[edit]

COLLECTIE TROPENMUSEUM Balinese dansers dansen de kètjak TMnr 10004676.jpg

There are many backup dancers accompanying the dances of the main dancer.

Hello, Mark Miller.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Backup dancer


Previous selections: Trailer Trash • Ice cream parlour


Get involved with the TAFI project! You can...
Posted by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of EuroCarGT (talk) 00:58, 2 March 2015 (UTC) • Opt-out instructions

The Signpost: 04 March 2015[edit]

This week's article for improvement (week 11, 2015)[edit]

Food from Turkey (cropped).jpg

Turkish cuisine

Hello, Mark Miller.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Cuisine


Previous selections: Backup dancer • Trailer Trash


Get involved with the TAFI project! You can...
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Disambiguation link notification for March 9[edit]

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Hawaii (1966 film), you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Sandwich Islands (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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Please join the discussion on Talk:Glengarry Glen Ross (film)[edit]

I am soliciting comments for an RfC that is currently open on the "Glengarry Glen Ross (film)" page. There is disagreement about where the film was set (New York vs. Chicago).

One of the issues is whether it is original research to cite to elements in the film itself (including props, dialogue, and a statement in the end credits that it was "filmed on location in New York City") to establish setting.

Response so far in the RfC has been mixed. Comments welcome! Xanthis (talk) 13:14, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 11 March 2015[edit]

This week's article for improvement (week 12, 2015)[edit]

Hello, Mark Miller.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Dinner


Previous selections: Cuisine • Backup dancer


Get involved with the TAFI project! You can...
Posted by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of EuroCarGT (talk) 03:26, 16 March 2015 (UTC) • Opt-out instructions

The Signpost: 18 March 2015[edit]

.

This week's article for improvement (week 13, 2015)[edit]

Mary Read killing her antagonist cph.3a00980.jpg

A antagonist is a character, group of characters, institution, or concept that stands in, or represents, opposition against which the protagonist(s) must contend.

Hello, Mark Miller.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Antagonist


Previous selections: Dinner • Cuisine


Get involved with the TAFI project! You can...
Posted by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of EuroCarGT (talk) 00:06, 23 March 2015 (UTC) • Opt-out instructions

The Signpost – Volume 11, Issue 12 – 25 March 2015[edit]

Not again[edit]

Mark, I appreciate a lot of the work you are doing on Hawaii-related topics, but could you please use the talk page a bit more and stop the edit warring? A lot of your edits, and I mean a lot of your edits, really have me really scratching my head. For example, you recently moved Akaka Bill to "Government Reorganization Act of 2009", even though the bill exists at the title because 1) it is the common name, and 2) the bill has been presented many times in at least eight different calendar years. For these reasons, your move makes absolutely no sense. Now, given that we've discussed this problematic editing in the past, and you've shown no sign of changing your behavior, I really have no recourse to escalate this matter elsewhere, which is really a pain in the ass because my time is so limited. Viriditas (talk) 08:18, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

I have a lot of respect for you and your opinion and if you feel that I overstepped and misused a BLP policy regarding living persons and articles titles and content inappropriately and that the BLP exemption on removal of un-sourced or badly sourced content, without discussion does not apply here and wish to take formal action I can understand that however, I did not edit war. My revert was several weeks later and was due to the inaccurate title given to the legislation that attempts criticism of both the bill and the man at the same time. It is not called the Akaka Bill. Akaka is a living person who is one of the legislators that drafted the document. The name is a politically biased nickname given by opponents of the bill.
I understand that it was Kavebear that reverted me with only the summary that it was potentially controversial. It already is controversial but that is the point. Wikipedia has policies and this is one that I feel strongly about enforcing as editors. If you seek formal action then I can only assume you feel that I am acting with a disregard to policy, procedure or guidelines and seeking a fight or creating a situation. I am only disappointed that you would think that after the last occasion, but I do feel justified in changing that back. The actual title is both encyclopedic and accurate but is also self explanatory. --Mark Miller (talk) 19:36, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
Mark, there's a good chance you may be correct on this matter. That's why the reqmove process is so important. KAVEBEAR and myself can't revert you if you have consensus for the move. Viriditas (talk) 20:53, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Welcome back[edit]

Warmest greetings, Mark,

I haven't seen you around much lately, but just want to let you know that I am happy to see your name pop up on my watch list. I agree regarding the "Akaka Bill" as there is an obviously neutral and accurate name for that legislation, and we do not name articles after Obama, Pelosi or Reid based on their opponent's memes. More importantly, we have a great need for editors with motivation, expertise and access to reliable sources regarding Hawaiian topics. Please stay with us, and I will help in the various small ways that I can. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 07:09, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Thank you so much. Been a very hectic beginning to 2015 in real life and time has been challenging to organize. Hoping to get back to work on a number of articles I have been hoping to expand on.--Mark Miller (talk) 07:14, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

PR[edit]

Hi, I saw your name in the list of Peer Review volunteers. Can you please do a Peer Review about Jama Masjid, Delhi article at Wikipedia:Peer review/Jama Masjid, Delhi/archive1. Thanks RRD13 দেবজ্যোতি (talk) 14:48, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 14, 2015)[edit]

Man rummaging thought a skip.jpg

A man garbage picking through a skip (dumpster)

Hello, Mark Miller.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Garbage picking


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The Signpost, 1 April 2015[edit]

Hello![edit]

I hope you are doing fine Miss Bono [hello, hello!] 19:16, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

I am! I hope we can now expect to see you around regularly! Hope all is well with you! :-)--Mark Miller (talk) 06:13, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

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The wheel is one of the most famous and useful inventions in the history of technology

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Matthew VanDyke edits[edit]

Dear Mark (formerly Amadscientist) - thank you for previously contributing to the discussion regarding the Matthew VanDyke page. As you may know, this page is currently subject to an editing dispute on both the Talk Page and the BLPN. In order to help resolve the dispute, please can you kindly confirm if your support for or objection to the debated edits has been fairly summarised in the table on the Talk Page? If your position has not been fairly summarised then I apologise and invite you to correct it (or let me know and I can do this for you). Thank you. - Slugfilm (talk) 01:21, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

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A saxophone is an example of an aerophone.

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April 2015 GOCE newsletter[edit]

Guild of Copy Editors April 2015 Newsletter
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The Signpost: 15 April 2015[edit]

This week's article for improvement (week 17, 2015)[edit]

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The Signpost: 22 April 2015[edit]

Your DYK nomination of Thirty Meter Telescope protests[edit]

Hi, the maximum allowed length of a DYK hook is 200 characters. Both of the hooks in your nomination are over the limit. The first one is just over, at 206, and ALT1 is 220, both excluding "(pictured)" which doesn't count. The hooks will have to be edited or replaced with shorter one(s). MANdARAX  XAЯAbИAM 01:57, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks.--Mark Miller (talk) 02:35, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

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Hydroelectric dams use hydropower to generate electricity

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The Signpost: 29 April 2015[edit]

Mitt Romney[edit]

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The edit I made was done because the {{Mitt Romney series}} exploded, including saying he was the 45th President. If you look at the revision history of {{Mitt Romney series}}, you'll see that User 124.180.253.125 edited the series template, causing an error, which was reverted later on. So you can look at the history for {{Mitt Romney series}}, click on User 124.180.253.125's revision, and see for yourself. I hadn't considered this as the cause of the issue at the time, but I figured it was best to removed the {{Mitt Romney series}} since it damaged the article significantly, at the time. Spartan7W § 14:11, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for replying. Is the template protected? Anyway, immediately after the revert I asked its creator to check on it.--Mark Miller (talk) 18:54, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

Arbitration case opened[edit]

You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Lightbreather. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Lightbreather/Evidence. Please add your evidence by May 17, 2015, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Lightbreather/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, --L235 (t / c / ping in reply) 00:49, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

Thirty Meter Telescope[edit]

I'm having trouble understanding your gutting of the Thirty Meter Telescope article. For example, one of the most important images in the article appears to have been removed by you for no reason. To make matters worse, you've introduced a significant NPOV issue by devoting a large part of the article to the protests and removing the most important information about the telescope. I'm having trouble understanding your POV here. Viriditas (talk) 01:02, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

The image can go back. I removed it temporarily (it seemed decorative with no current text to justify that wasn't a primary source, which can be fixed. It just needs secondary sourced comparisons to other mirrors) and was going to use the file to create something more specific with the TMT portion of the image itself. The section is not POV Viriditas, it is notable enough to mention and the amount of space is due weight, although I would have no problem or issue with it being trimmed back further. I am about the only one editing it, found a great deal of issues with sourcing, claims, COI sources, images. I spent a great deal of time locating scientific journal sources to reference un-sourced scientific claims. The protest of the Thirty Meter Telescope is the largest protest of its kind in Hawaii. The governor called it unprecedented. It is notable enough now to be in the article of the Thirty Meter Telescope itself, Mauna kea and a stand alone article of its own.--Mark Miller (talk) 02:19, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
What I don't understand is your terminology of "gutting". Since I could have actually just stubbed the thing from all the unreferenced scientific claims. Instead...I sourced them and added nearly ten references for the telescope alone. I have not introduced any POV but simply summarized the overwhelming amount of sources...AND I only added the basic details of the most recent protests and focused on the background of the telescope (there was none before) and the protests from last October on the stand alone to keep from appearing promotional. But it has been a month, the protests have gained notability not lost any and I have also been expanding articles that are related and collecting further background and scientific journals for more sourcing.--Mark Miller (talk) 02:29, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
You are making some valid points, Mark, and the article will be better if these comments guide your editing going forward. I do not want to see this article become a coatrack for advancing the arguments of the protesters. Please edit always with NPOV in mind. I will read a wide variety of sources discussing the issues in days to come. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 04:13, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
I tried to open that SVG file but it does not appear to be a file that can be edited. I was hoping to simplify that graphic to fewer images so the image makes more sense in thumb but I'll have to try something else.--Mark Miller (talk) 04:24, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
I take everything editors say seriously of course, but in this particular case, I have been extremely cautious as to not give the perception of promoting the protests or demonstrations. I have editied some of the most controversial articles on Wikipedia during the most heated parts of the political process. While I, like everyone else has an opinion on events and situations of this nature, I also have a track record or editing in a neutral manner on articles like Occupy Wall Street, where I am one of the major contributors. I gained a great deal of experience and understanding of writing about protests of this sort in a disinterested and even manner. I don't edit one side alone. During the 2010 California elections I was editing Meg Whitman's article far more than Jerry Brown's just to help keep unfair or contentious claims without proper sourcing out of the article. I am contributor to both Hillary Clinton and Mitt Romney where my edits and discussions demonstrate my willing to work with differing ideologies. I was also a major participant in the AN discussion on the problems of the OWS articles and editors that were nearly overrunning Wikipedia at one point and spent countless hours cleaning up articles and directing editors to the OWS project that I started (pretty much defunct now) just to make sure OWS supporters knew we had standards they were expected to adhere to. I welcome help though. Seriously.

The protests themselves are a two part blockade that began on October 7, 2014. There were two different groups that had announced their intent to demonstrate that day. one at the base of the mountain and one near at the summit by the proposed construction site. Sources seem to indicate that a number of the protestors at the base of the mountain, went up to the summit where they joined others already there from the other group. The individual who is in the main image and named in the caption, Lanakila Mangauil is the Native Hawaiian practitioner who interrupted the ceremony, he was one of the individuals that went to the summit from the other demonstration. This is all in the sources and about what I put into the article, but there is a lot more detail. I also haven't updated the fact that the TMT has been postponed in the article itself and why. That should be added.

I believe the March demonstrations can now be expanded as well as the arrests etc. There has been a lot more from both sides not mentioned at all because Wikipedia is not a newspaper and I didn't see any reason to jump to the articles to add them. I could use your help as well as Viriditas' if he wishes, to discuss the best way to present situations and discuss what is and is not notable enough to mention or, whether the may be issues to think of. Abigail Kinoiki Kekaulike Kawānanakoa donated a very large sum of money to one of the groups. Twenty five thousand dollars. There are sources. One of the protesters got into a small situation with some obscene posts on social media and apologized. That can be sourced. the social media campaign has not been covered in the article. that can be sourced. There was a recent hack to the TMT project website by the group Anonymous. Lots of sources for that. There was a recent reversal of sorts by the Office of Hawaiian Affairs and that seems to be the latest and information from a few days ago. Sources for that are available as well.

On the other side of this the issue becomes how to properly give weight to any real opposition. I don't know if just having a source makes opposition of any kind notable. As I said, I waited nearly 6 months before I even touched an article because the situation, while mentioned in sources, had little notability. Such as the "support" petition. The supporters actually have a petition as well...but it isn't mentioned and I have to wonder if just mentioning the opposition petition automatically gives notability to the support petition for mention. The difference in numbers between the two is drastic. Support petition has something like 2000 names and the opposition had some crazy high number like tens of thousand or over a hundred thousand I believe. Knowing what to mention and what not, by nyself, means I will make a lot of changes as I step back and look at it. only way to do it without others. Also, there is a well funded marketing campaign by the TMT with professional marketing companies. Two of them actually, also in the sources. It can be difficult to know what is being pushed and what is natural on both sides but I am not a part of any of the organizations (support or opposition) and have no personal relationship with anyone involved or any financial stake of any kind...yada yada yada. --Mark Miller (talk) 05:06, 3 May 2015 (UTC)--Mark Miller (talk) 05:06, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for your additional comments, Mark. Since the New York Times ran an editorial on the topic today, the issue is bound to get much more widespread coverage in days to come. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 05:17, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

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This week's article for improvement (week 22, 2015)[edit]

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WikiCup 2015 May newsletter[edit]

C/2014 Q2 (Lovejoy) is a long-period comet discovered on 17 August 2014 by Terry Lovejoy; and is one of several Featured Pictures worked up by India The Herald (submissions) during the second round.

The second round one has all wrapped up, and round three has now begun! Congratulations to the 34 contestants who have made it through, but well done and thank you to all contestants who took part in our second round. Leading the way overall was Belarus Cas Liber (submissions) in Group B with a total of 777 points for a variety of contributions including Good Articles on Corona Borealis and Microscopium - both of which received the maximum bonus.

Special credit must be given to a number of high importance articles improved during the second round.

The points varied across groups, with the lowest score required to gain automatic qualification was 68 in Group A - meanwhile the second place score in Group H was 404, which would have been high enough to win all but one of the other Groups! As well as the top two of each group automatically going through to the third round, a minimum score of 55 was required for a wildcard competitor to go through. We had a three-way tie at 55 points and all three have qualified for the next round, in the spirit of fairness. The third round ends on June 28, with the top two in each group progressing automatically while the remaining 16 highest scorers across all four groups go through as wildcards. Good luck to all competitors for the third round! Figureskatingfan (talk · contribs · email), Miyagawa (talk · contribs · email) and Sturmvogel 66 (talk · contribs · email) 16:21, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 06 May 2015[edit]

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Early history of the telescope[edit]

I do not understand the relevance of this, Mark. Would we put some stuff about Frederick Diesel and Henry Ford and the Stanley Steamer in the article about the Tesla? Cullen328 Let's discuss it 04:11, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

I don't know, but Tesla (company) is a stub and it might want some of the background. I believe that a brief history overview for the second largest telescope itself is encyclopedic background information that is leading to the advancements made that led to the leaps being taken in the modern era of permanent observatories. I think I'm getting it in pretty tight but let me know if you think there is some undue weight.--Mark Miller (talk) 03:56, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
Tesla Motors is a long article and it does not have any of the background history of the technology itself as you say, but it is also a B rated article and could use some introduction to how the technology developed if the Tesla is considered an advancement in the auto industry (I don't know that is, but if it was).--Mark Miller (talk) 04:01, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
Well, I hate to disagree but I think this early telescope history material is completely out of place and instead should be replaced with material about high altitude astronomy since that would be far more relevant to the topic. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 04:09, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
(edit conflict)I have an overarching source [7] (and that is just one overarching source). I believe that the overview shows the basic development of glass lenses to telescope, then to the development of larger telescopes using light gathering mirrors. It seems relevant since this is explaining the reasoning behind larger and larger telescopes and now larger mirrors.--Mark Miller (talk) 04:10, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
I don't see any reason to replace it with high altitude astronomy, but I certainly agree it should be a part.--Mark Miller (talk) 04:12, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
(edit conflict) By the way, this is only going to be a small set up for the summary of the development of the ELT.--Mark Miller (talk) 04:31, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
There is a core, essential reason why very large telescopes are built at very high elevations, not near sea level. That reason is not explained in the current content you added. Galileo did not climb the Alps. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 04:35, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
That is a good point, but Galileo was not using a permanent observatory. The reason behind the elevation is just to get past clouds and to be in Hawaii is because of the lack of surrounding light, but adaptive optics is about correcting the issue of turbulence in the atmosphere. Cullen....the total difference in distance is negligible. It just about as clear a view as possible. its not there because I haven't gotten that far yet.--Mark Miller (talk) 05:47, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
Your comment that large telescope sites are selected "just to get past clouds" and "because of the lack of surrounding light" indicates that you do not fully understand the importance of altitude. Those two factors are of course important but there are no large telescopes in the middle of the Sahara desert which would be ideal if those were the only criteria. By far the most important factor is that the atmosphere itself acts as a foggy filter, reducing the amount of light from the cosmos and blurring it. At 13,800 feet, a significant percentage of the atmosphere is below, and the viewing is dramatically better. Some of the sources in List of highest astronomical observatories may prove useful. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 17:28, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

Mauna Kea as a sacred mountain, and the Thirty Meter Telescope[edit]

Mark, I am not sure who added the material and the references about Mauna Kea being the most sacred site in Hawaii, and maybe that is true. But what about Mauna Loa and Kiluea? Would the ancient Hawaiians living on the other islands have agreed? I do not know. But the sources cited for that claim seem really weak to me. I see what looks like a self published book by a woman who illustrates her work with photos of cloth dolls she has apparently sewn herself. I see a book by a Native American political activist. I see a Lonely Planet travel guide. My gosh. Certainly, there must be some solid academic sources that discuss this. I know that the summit was kapu but didn't that become null and void when Kamehamaha II told men and women to dine together 200 years ago?

More broadly, our article Sacred mountain is really, really bad. The section about Mount Shasta is utter horsecrap and I have been fighting against that in the Shasta article for years. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 04:30, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

The content is accurate and could be sourced stronger but originally the claim was different and sourced to a EIS for one of the telescopes at the Mauna kea article. There is some small discussion on the talk page.--Mark Miller (talk) 04:36, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
All of the references to Mauna kea refer to it as the most sacred mountain in Native Hawaiian tradition I believe. The legends do differ in deails such as Tahiti being first born in one tale but all of the Ancient ali'i were intermarried and almost a single family unit for a thousand years. So all of the islands had a basic myth surrounding Mauna Kea in some manner I believe.--Mark Miller (talk) 04:38, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, that Sacred Mountain article could be a lot better.--Mark Miller (talk) 04:39, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
Yes, I looked at those sources. In my opinion, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Those sources are very weak and lack academic rigor, and I am suprised that they are included in a Featured article. I see that MelanieN raised a red flag on this back in 2012, and we still have the same flaky sources. A self published book? Really? Cullen328 Let's discuss it 04:55, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
That may well be your opinion and you are entitled to it, but it is not policy or guideline. That is in regard to BLP policy.--Mark Miller (talk) 05:00, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
  • (edit conflict) Reference 2 is said to be from a native political activist but our guideline not only allows it but states that some biased sources are the best sources. Per WP:BIASED:

Wikipedia articles are required to present a neutral point of view. However, reliable sources are not required to be neutral, unbiased, or objective. Sometimes non-neutral sources are the best possible sources for supporting information about the different viewpoints held on a subject.


Common sources of bias include political, financial, religious, philosophical, or other beliefs. While a source may be biased, it may be reliable in the specific context. When dealing with a potentially biased source, editors should consider whether the source meets the normal requirements for reliable sources, such as editorial control and a reputation for fact-checking. Editors should also consider whether the bias makes it appropriate to use in-text attribution to the source, as in "Feminist Betty Friedan wrote that...", "According to the Marxist economist Harry Magdoff...," or "Conservative Republican presidential candidate Barry Goldwater believed that...".

--Mark Miller (talk) 04:58, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

In that context, I was referring to the book by Winona LaDuke, [4], which is used in the protest article. Surely there must be better sources. And why are we stating religious claims in Wikipedia's voice, instead of attributing the person who made the claim in the article text? Cullen328 Let's discuss it 05:14, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
Perhaps but I see that as a strong source and will defend its use. I will also defend the use of Wikipedia's voice of authority to summarize as fact what the Hawaiian people see as sacred not what IS sacred. But I can provide stronger sources. Sorry for getting lazy and thank you for lighting a fire under my ass but this is truly accurate information. Surely it is not your claim that this content is NOT accurate?--Mark Miller (talk) 05:29, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the ping, Cullen. This is an interesting subject and I will do some research on it a little later. But offhand (without doing any research, just speaking as someone who loves Hawaii and lived there for a while) I find it hard to believe that ANY site in Hawai'i is more sacred than Kilauea. To this day you can find kahunas and other Hawaiian people visiting Halema'uma'u with offerings and prayers to Pele. --MelanieN (talk) 14:44, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
I have no problem with the claim that Mauna Kea was/is considered a sacred site by native Hawaiians. But to me, the claim that it is the most sacred site is far more specific and requires a citation to a source written by an acknowledged expert in Hawaiian religious traditions. A source that actually analyzes and compares the various sites, and explains their relative sacredness. Not casual one line statements by activists. Not in a travel guide. Not a self-published book by a woman selling dolls and illustrating her book with cute photos are of said dolls. In other words, a truly reliable source. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 16:36, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
I have a problem with the continued complaint about the self published source. If your intent is to have a discussion about the sources for the claim, to strengthen them and point out where they are weakest, wouldn't it be civil for any further criticism of the sources used, not to include continued mentions of the source you demonstrated sucked...and I took out as a result of this discussion? Cullen, you are one of the most fair minded editors I know. I can only assume that because I am a declared pagan that you feel I am trying to inject a pagan bias into the article. I don't see how I have done that, nor do I have a history of it. My last block wasn't for trying to inject religion into an article, it was because I crossed 3RR trying to remove (my perception of ) religious bias on the Historicity of Jesus article. My last edit on Mauna Kea was reverted with the edit summary "broke" references. OK, but the author is a high school student regardless who the publisher is. Mauna Kea needs to be delisted if your concerns are so great about my sourcing and your patience is at its limit, because the article is littered with weak sources of non experts making scientific, geological, hydrological and environmental claims as well as claims about the indigenous peoples. Look, I have been discussing my edits on the talk page and one of the issues I have raised is the sourcing, so I agree with you that sourcing on an FA article should be strong but I believe I have demonstrated my intent at editing that article is to improve sourcing and content not insert a bias. The burden of evidence is on the editor that adds or return content and is met by providing a reliable source in the form of an inline citation next to any claim that is or is likely to be challenged. One source clearly did not meet the criteria and was removed immediately when it was discovered to be a self published. But the other sources have not been demonstrated to lack the reliability to make the claim.--Mark Miller (talk) 20:24, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
I will take a look at the 2012 issue that Melanie raised but the Winona LaDuke source is used to reference the following claim: "Native Hawaiian activists such as Kealoha Pisciotta, a former employee of the Mauna Kea observatories, have raised concerns over the telescopes on Mauna Kea desecrating their most sacred mountain.[7]" That is an expert in the field for that claim and is perfectly in line with sourcing guidelines, policy and the spirit of Wikipedia. Are you now claiming that an published activists is NOT a reliable source to make claims about another published activist? I am extremely confused here. I believe I found that source. I'll have to look, but that section and mention was moved out of the Thirty Meter Telescope article for COI reasons due to the image. I suggest you speak to that editor if you have concerns about bias, but my intent was to rescue the information, the image and content to source it and copy edit it to be neutral. But the facts are accurate and there is no due weight issue.--Mark Miller (talk) 20:48, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
Mark, I never noticed or remembered that you identified as a pagan and also consider you fair minded. Nothing could have been further from my mind. All I care about is the quality of the articles and the quality of the sources. Another thing that did not cross my mind in recent days was any block regarding Jesus. Yes, I was vaguely aware you got blocked but did not delve into the details. As a Jew, my interest in Jesus is peripheral at best. So, I promise not to use my powers of imagination to speculate about your motives and hope you will take the same attitude toward me.
I am not inclined to try to delist the Mauna Kea article, and my main immediate interest is in its connection to the Thirty Meter Telescope articles. If I didn't have major work and family obligations, and had lots of money, maybe I would delve more deeply. My time and energy are limited, so I would like to have a collaborative relationship with you, based on your knowledge of things Hawaiian, with a mutual goal of improving the articles.
You are welcome to look at any article I have written or expanded, and critique any aspect of the writing, sourcing, neutrality, or anything else. Turnabout is fair play. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 20:57, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
LaDuke is fine as a source regarding the views of activists but I noticed she also discussed the sacredness of the mountain as well. I will stop criticizing the current sources on that for the time being, and instead try to look myself for a better source, ideally one written by a recognized expert in Hawaiian religious traditions. Thank you. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 21:05, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
I have very eclectic interests at Wikipedia. Don't forget my original user name was Amadscientist and that is not just because I like science fiction, but science fact as well. But my main interests have been on ancient cultures as well as modern culture, food, arts, industry, social sciences and the general sciences.--Mark Miller (talk) 21:14, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
Well, I may be OK with referring to Mauna Kea as "the most sacred mountain", if you think that is worth mentioning. My objection is to calling it the "most sacred site", because I think that is almost certainly Halema'uma'u. --MelanieN (talk) 23:45, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
The ʻĀina is the most sacred.[5] But the most sacred sites are going to be best known by the native people and may not be in publication. It may require speaking to family that have access to these oral traditions.[6] Having said that, there are oral traditions from Hawaii that are now published as primary sources and newer documentation from university level experts on Oceania. I will endeavor to find the right sources for any claim of the "most sacred" site, but I agree the current sources certainly do not support a claim of "most sacred site". I believe I have not attempted to edit that in but added to the text referring to the five mountain peaks.--Mark Miller (talk) 00:38, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Sabine Hendreschke. Menehune Mana The Spiritual Essence of Hawaii. Sabine Hendreschke. p. 43. GGKEY:PDSF05H9RAT. 
  2. ^ Martin Gray; Graham Hancock (2007). Sacred Earth: Places of Peace and Power. Sterling Pub.Company. p. 254. ISBN 978-1-4027-4737-3. 
  3. ^ Luci Yamamoto; Alan Tarbell (2005). Hawai'i: The Big Island. Lonely Planet. p. 137. ISBN 978-1-74059-691-6. 
  4. ^ Winona LaDuke (2005). Recovering the Sacred: The Power of Naming and Claiming. South End Press. pp. 30–31. ISBN 978-0-89608-712-5. 
  5. ^ Erin Sawatzky (April 2008). Facets of the sacred: cross-cultural reflections. Aboriginal Issues Press. ISBN 978-0-9738342-5-3. 
  6. ^ Ismail Serageldin; Ephim Shluger; Joan Martin-Brown (1 January 2001). Historic Cities and Sacred Sites: Cultural Roots for Urban Futures. World Bank Publications. pp. 341–. ISBN 978-0-8213-4904-5. 

Today's articles for improvement[edit]

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Sent by Northamerica1000 using mass messaging on 09:12, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

A good Mauna Kea source[edit]

Take a look at pages 109-113 of this book, which I think is useful both for the spiritual aspects as well as the benefits for astronomy. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 21:26, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

If that type of source is acceptable there are a lot of them actually. Because Mauna kea has been documented in the journals and publications of scientists, astronomers and other scientific fields connected to the technologies, there has been much written on the importance of the mauna (mountain) to the Hawaiian people, through the lens of secondary view points as described by others or through research. That one nut shells it pretty well accept that they don't call the mountain that, they sometimes refer to the mountain in those terms but it has proper names (a few) and that isn't one of them. I believe it is a passage from an oral chant. But that is a great secondary source for the genealogy link between the mauna and the people. It also has a lot to do with the legends of Pele.
I parked an older source that is strictly about the ancient Hawaiian volcano myths and there is a very interesting legend about Mauna Kea and Pele. Pele has been banished from Mauna Kea forever and can never return. The result of an ancient battle beginning with the creation of certain snow or ice gods and Pele's disguised visit to Mauna Kea were she releases lava and fire. These legends seem to have something to do with the geology of the landscape and the composition and make up of the soil and rocks observed by the early Hawaiians as well as knowing and seeing how the lava flows of Mauna Loa stayed off of Mauna Kea. I am not certain of the importance of Kilauea, but in some family lines there are repeated references to specific mauna. I would wonder if that may be the case with Kilauea. Mauna Kapu has some local legends I believe. I don't know the significance but I know some people were given the names Mauna...followed by a particular mountain. These would probably be the kahuna lines but I am not sure, they would certainly be the ali'i lines for sure.--Mark Miller (talk) 22:04, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 20, 2015)[edit]

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The food industry is a complex, global collective of diverse businesses that supply much of the food and food energy consumed by the world population.

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Food industry


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Lightbreather arbitration case: special arangements[edit]

Because of the unusual number of participants with interaction bans in the Lightbreather arbitration case, the consensus of the Arbitration Committee is that:

1. All i-bans and associated restrictions are suspended for participation on the /Evidence page. This suspension extends solely and exclusively to the /Evidence page but some tolerance will be given on the /Evidence talk page to link to material on the /Evidence page.

2. For simplicity, and for the purposes of this case only, one-way i-bans are regarded as two-way i-bans.

3. Threaded interactions of any description between participants are prohibited on both the /Evidence and the /Evidence talk pages.

4. Similar arrangements apply to /Workshop page and the /Workshop talk page.

The original announcement can be found here. For the Arbitration Committee, --L235 (t / c / ping in reply) via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:44, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Interesting opinion[edit]

I think you may find this interesting. There's No 'Hawaiian View' on the Thirty Meter Telescope, by Bronson Kaahui. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 20:23, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Oh, I am sure there are many interesting views for and against the TMT. I wouldn't use personal opinion of individual bloggers from news blogs in the article accept where notable. Experts in many fields have also made similar editorials with much more accurate information and more notable in coverage for their opinion. The problem with this source is, while it is a news blog, much of the content is inaccurate. Opinion aside, the conclusions are drawn off assumptions based on a rather extreme points of view and incorrect historic information. But the author is notable enough for mention in the protest article as "reaction" or response if it can be sourced through other secondary comments. There are many details of the protests, response and general coverage that have encyclopedic value. This may have EV, but my concern is, its a sort of challenge that has no response and could be undue weight to a fringe opinion. There may also be some further mention of author through a controversy I mentioned above. How much of that should be mentioned for BLP reasons is unclear.--Mark Miller (talk) 20:59, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
The author originally wrote this for another publication as an editorial entitled: "Science, Not Superstition, Brought Polynesians to Hawaii" on April 9th.[1]--Mark Miller (talk) 21:38, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

@Cullen328: you may not realize it, but you posted a short-form, edited version of Bronson Kaahui's long-form article which was originally published by Honlulu Civil Beat, a reliable source for this opinion piece.[8] So the article you linked to on Indian Country should not be used because it is only a snippet of the original. Viriditas (talk) 22:18, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Yes, the Honolulu Civil Beat editorial is the originating source, but it is not a reliable source for the opinion piece, but the primary source of the opinion piece (the secondary mention is linked in my second reply on this thread). Is the piece is more EV than say, that of Richard Ha, who has been very vocal of his support for many years and is a local community leader, part of the PBS round table linked in the eternal links section and has multiple secondary sources that can be cited? I feel he would probably be the better opinion to add.--Mark Miller (talk) 19:13, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Pignataro, Anthony (April 13, 2015). "Will science be a casualty in the war over the Mauna Kea Thirty Meter Telescope?". MauiTime. MauiTime. Retrieved 11 May 2015. 

The Signpost: 13 May 2015[edit]

DYK for Thirty Meter Telescope protests[edit]

Harrias talk 22:19, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. Cool!--Mark Miller (talk) 22:50, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 21, 2015)[edit]

TAFI week 21, 2015.jpg

Left: Czech bramboráček, a bread made of potato dough, being deep fried. Right: The Royal Navy Trafalgar class attack submarine HMS Tireless (S88) sits on the surface of the North Pole, the northern polar ice cap on Earth

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Today's articles for improvement[edit]

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The Signpost: 20 May 2015[edit]

This week's article for improvement (week 22, 2015)[edit]

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Chocolate most commonly comes in dark (bottom), milk (middle), and white (top) varieties

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TAFI week 22, 2015 update[edit]

Please note that Personality is also an article for improvement for week 22, 2015. Thank you.

Sent by Northamerica1000 using mass messaging on 01:08, 25 May 2015 (UTC)