Talk:Turkmens

Please

Please do not replace the article with unwikified dumps of text grabbed from elsewhere. See Wikipedia:Copyrights and the Wikipedia:Manual of Style. Thanks. -- Infrogmation 18:07, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Turk-men???

The history of Iraqi Turkmens are not related with Ottoman Empire. They are descendants of Seljuks and Ilkhanates not the Ottomans. The given meaning of Turkmen as "Türk-men" (I am a Türk) is totally absurd. The way to say "I am a Turk" in Turkmen is "Men Türkem", "Men Türküm". In any of the Turkic languages from Siberian Yakut to Balkan Turkish the verb is always at the end of the sentence. The execptions that I know are Gagauz (Moldova) and Karaim (Lithuania).

English dictionaries say the word is from Persian turkmān, "like a Turk". I am going to work on this article this weekend. --Cam 17:06, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Ruhnama say the word is from turk-iman: türk means core, iman means light. Therefore, TÜRK İMAN, namely Türkmen means “made from light, whose essence is light.” The Türkmen name came to this world in this way.

http://ruhnama.info/ruhnama-en/kitap-htm/s10.htm --Ga1taman 13:40, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Odd paragraph

Saparmyrat Niyazov

Since October 22, 1993 Saparmyrat Niyazov has used the title Turkmenbashi (Türkmenbaşy), meaning "Leader of all Ethnic Turkmen". In his state Turkmenistan, this is probably largely true. It should be noted, however, that President Niyazov has not to date demonstrated any desire to expand his political suzerainty beyond the borders of Turkmenistan.

Does the above paragraph really belong in this article? Seems inappropriate. SouthernComfort 01:06, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

I say delete it. :) --Khoikhoi 04:01, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

The word "Turkoman" is combination of two words "Turk" and "Koman". Turk means strong and Koman might be corruption of "Cuman". The word "Cuman" might be corruption of word "Chemon" which means Cem, Kem, Kim, Chem, Khem peoples living around the globe. For example Kembojah, Khemr, Kama, Kamio, Kamen, Komnenos, Champas, Chamorro etc etc living as Arabs, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Shamans, Christians, Pagans and Muslims in almost all continents of the world. I beleive this word Kem/Cem/Chem takes its name from Biblical "Shem"(son of bibilical and Quranic Noah) being ancestor of Arabs and Hebrews(the most ancient peoples). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.71.190.49 (talk) 05:20, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

people or peoples?

Do the Turkmen of central Asia and the Turkmen of Iraq really consider themselves to be part of a single ethnic group? Or do they consider themselves separate groups (admittedly under the larger umbrella of Turkic peoples) with the same name? --Jfruh 23:02, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

More radically, shouldn't we split this article? I've controlled ethnologue and it considers their language only adialect of South Azerbaijani, linking the Iraqi Turkmens to the Azeris and not to the Central Asian Turkmens. Also I doubt the two groups have any cultural similarities, also considering that many Iraqi Turkmens are shia, while all the Central Asian Turkmens are Sunni. The only common link is that they are both Turkish people, but this can be said of many. Aldux 17:28, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

(I'm an outsider editing adding a comment.) The one who added the article above, doesn't have any clue what he/she is talking about. He/she doesn't seem to know the difference between Turkish and Turkic. Turkmens and Turcomans of Iraq are NOT Turks. They are TURKIC peoples. Turks are relatively a young nation, on the other hand the history of Turkmens go back thousands of years. We dug finely worked ivory up in Turkmenistan hand made about 3500 year ago. Turkmens can't possible be Truks.

You have no ıdea eıther. they're all Turks. Turkıc ıs a synonym! But yes, Iraqi Turkmen ıs dıstınct. Half of them ıs sunni though.--Bunifa88 (talk) 21:45, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Moved info. on Iraqi Turkmen to Iraqi Turkmen

Just so everyone knows, I didn't just blank out the section. Tombseye 16:00, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Dating

What does AH mean, as in 349 AH? What does it translate to in western time-keeping? What calendaring system is it, Islamic or Baha'i or Saka? 24.186.214.2 01:22, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

AH is After-Hegira, Muslim time reckoning, when Muhammed fled Mecca for Medina, 622 AD. Chris 07:17, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Merge proposal

Looking at Turkomen after the merge proposal, I thought they seemed like two different batches of people similarly named. Can anyone verify? They could be the same. Chris 07:17, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

support merge, I checked, same batch of folks. Chris 07:40, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

support merge, --Ga1taman 13:40, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

"related groups" info removed from infobox

For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all {{Infobox Ethnic group}} infoboxes. Comments may be left on the Ethnic groups talk page. Ling.Nut 21:13, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

What is so bad about this picture?

What is so bad about this picture that it must need be removed from the article, where it had been happily sitting since April 2005?  --Lambiam 17:58, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

I honestly dont see see anything wrong it. I'm going to restore it since there appear to have been no responses to Lambiam's comment. Khoikhoi 23:33, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

• I honestly don't see anything wrong with the picture. But there is a rather technical problem. It is claimed in the legent that the photo had been taken during 1905-1915. With such bright colors and correct hues it is simply impossible. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 11:11, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

They had color photos back then you know and Russia was the place. This is an authentic color photo from the period, which is why it is still here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.99.241.102 (talk) 00:31, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

turkmen baloch

I am a baloch of Iran.I have just heard about the turkmen baloch.Can any one tell where do they exist?and do they speak russian>Did any one(local) see them in Turkmenistan? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.96.229.85 (talk) 11:53, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

"Turkmen" comes from the iranian word torkmand/torkman which in persian means "they became turk" ie they(the iranians of central asia)have been turkified

"Turkmen" comes from the iranian word torkmand/torkman which in persian means "they became turk" ie they(the iranians of central asia)have been turkified "Turkmen" comes from the iranian word torkmand/torkman which in persian means "they became turk" ie they(the iranians of central asia)have been turkified.

john L.Drake —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.188.81.84 (talk) 17:33, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

This user has reapeated this text in many articles. I wrote an answer to the one here,here andhere. I think you need to remove the whole of posts by this one . He also has posted two other blocks of text to many wiki articles. He supports the ethnocentric ideas of persians. Amir.azeri (talk) 12:28, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Major Ethnic Groups of Iran ( picture is wrong ! )

I wanted to mention to the picture about Major Ethnic Groups of Iran, Turkmens are in a vast area in iran, also azeries and qashqai, the government of iran wants to show that Turkic people in iran are so less, persian and kurds are more ! --Snake co1 (talk) 07:29, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Turkmen People representatives in the infobox

Please take a look at the portraits in the top right corner of "Azerbaijani people" (or any other good article about an ethnicity). It shows a representative selection of ethnic faces, not just the current president. Yceren Loq (talk) 22:49, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

File:Turkmen0012.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

An image used in this article, File:Turkmen0012.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Copyright violations What should I do? Don't panic; deletions can take a little longer at Commons than they do on Wikipedia. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion (although please review Commons guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page. If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use) If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used. If the image has already been deleted you may want to try Commons Undeletion Request This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 18:54, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Yörük = Hyrcanae?

The article claims that the Turkish term "Yörük" used for Turkish nomadic or semi-nomadic groups in Anatolia and Balkans has phonetic variations Iirk, Iyierk, Hiirk, Hirkan, Hircanae, Hyrkan and Hyrcanae. This information is quoted from a Russian publication, which is unaccessible online and the name Hyrcania was, furthermore, the ancient name of a region between current Iran and Turkmenistan, whereas the etymology of the word "Yörük" is generally thought to be derived from the Turkish verb "yürümek" (to walk). http://books.google.cz/books?id=q_189OeDwSMC&pg=PA859&lpg=PA859&dq=Yörük Is there any further evidence for the existence of those phonetic variations mentioned in the article? Ayazid (talk) 17:06, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

User:Siktirgitir

Instead of calling other editors ignorant and edit warring, Siktirgitir should bring sources to support his opinions. The referenced information he is changing does not state parthian. --Kansas Bear (talk) 19:00, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

Kansas Bear is correct on all points. Edward321 (talk) 22:03, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

concering parthian

I seems as I told before on your site that you are little informed, if you read barthold turkestan down to mongol invasion, rene grousse, steppe empires, cambrigde history of iran volume 3, The Cambridge History of Iran Volume 3: The Seleucid, Parthian and Sasanid Periods, Part 1 ,The Cambridge History of Iran Volume 3: The Seleucid, Parthian and Sasanid Periods, Part 2 ,

also in swedish, bra böckers världs historia, which means good books world history its like a encylopedia of the world history of mankind,

also the bonniers världs historia del 3, bonniers world history part 3 the parthians and sassanid era in iran, in swedish,

I have tones of references, its just some of I have read, I have gumaliev, wilhem radloff, thomsen, otto von maenschlefen,

I dont remember their books,

ce bosworth, bosworth american historian or english , unesco historical background of central asia, part 2 or three I dont clear remember,

peter golden, different books, faruk sumer , turkmenler oghuzlar book, the problem is that I dont remember all the books entitlements,

Peter golden is a major in iran and turkic and middle eastern history,

I have read minorsky, but he is not a good source, you feel more stupid than smart when you come out reading him,

ariminus vambery the jewish hungary , traveles thruth central asia or something the book was called,

I got reference from cambrigde history of iran volume 7 from nadir shah to the islamic republic, a statistics showing the rapid developent of irans economy from irans central bank and IMF , internationl monetary fund,

I have lots of lots of more the the bra böckers enclyocpedia , the whole bonniers, world history encholpedia, whole cambrigde of iran volumes , thought I dont remember everything, It was some years ago, the uzbek historian baya something, he died some years ago, and tatar valid tokan or something dont remember his name either, I have many many more source so please dont say I dont have any source, — Preceding unsigned comment added by Siktirgitir (talk • contribs) 23:29, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Since you are so informed, you should know that simply stating title of books and names of historians is not proof of anything. I see no page numbers with these book titles nor quotes from these books. Therefore, you have presented nothing that supports your opinion. Continued remarks directed at other editors will be reported and can result in you being blocked. --Kansas Bear (talk) 04:58, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

The historian and books I mentioned is actuall books I have read, as I said on your page I dont know how to add source, and further notice, I havent seen at wikipedia, state pages of books, but if you want that , Ill do it to , you only make wikipedia a worse tool of knowlegde by removing , you are not adding any information, besides as I said you are little informed, since you didnt even know were the parthians lived, to me as a historian its a big error, anyhow, good luck by keeping wikipeida free from false information, and spreading false knowlegde, you are a hero to mankind, I admire your courage, If wikipedia had more talented like you than we would need no books, keep it up, --Siktirgitir (talk) 22:12, 4 December 2013 (UTC)siktirgitir

vandalism by kansans bear edward321 and vsmith

the tukmen ethnoloue report clearly reports as I have pointed out , they havent even checked it, its so stupid and ignorant, please can someone help me to this ignorant gentleman to see the true , they havent even checked the source and denies the source , how can you by so blind, please help other users, I dont have any other reverts since they have warned me because I said edward321 was deranged because he didnt read the source , I still hold to my opinion that the guy isnt fully aware of the source and there for not fully functional, as to vsmith and kansans bear seems to take sides and dont see the matter from an objective side, I have read the ethnologue report before and just clicked at the link and it confired what I edited , how can people be so blind, please someone with moral can they help me edit turkmen people article,--Siktirgitir (talk) 23:03, 14 December 2013 (UTC)siktirgitir

Sources on Turkmens

Public domain text on Turkmens

The Turkomans observe a difference between their children from Turkoman mothers, and those from the Persian female captives whom they take as wives, and the Kazakh women whom they purchase from the Uzbeks of Khiva. The Turkomans of pure race enjoy full privileges, while the others are not allowed to contract marriages with Turkoman women of pure blood, but must choose themselves wives among the half-castes and Kazakh captives.

As there exists a great animosity between the Yamuds and Goklans they do not intermarry, although they reckon themselves of equally noble lineage. The same hatred is extended to the Tekke Turkomans, whom the Goklans and Yamuds, moreover, look upon as their inferiors, being, according to their genealogies, the descendants of a slave-woman, whilst they are the posterity of a free-woman. (p. 71)

The more intimate connection of the Astrakhan and Kazan Tartars with the Mogols can be traced in their features; with the Nogay it is less visible. In like manner, the Turkomans further off in the desert, and the Uzbeks of Khive, have more of the Mogol expression than the Turkomans who encamp near the Persian frontier. The frequent intercourse of the Nogay, in latter years, with the Cherkess, seems to have improved their race; and notwithstanding the enmity that exists between the Turkomans and the Persians, it is still not unlikely that their close vicinity should have produced on the former a similar effect in a lapse of several centuries. The fact we have seen, that the Turkomans marry Persian women, when they take them as prisoners. The Turkoman women are, like the men, tall, and when young, well-shaped; their faces are rounder than those of the men; the cheek-bones less prominent; the eyes black, with fine eye-brows, and many with fair complexion; the nose is rather flat; the mouth small, with a row of regular white teeth. In a word, a great number of the younger part of the community might be reckoned as fair specimens of pretty women. (p. 73)

Bode, C.A. "The Yamud and Goklan tribes of Turkomania". Journal of the London Ethnological Society, vol. 1, 1848, pp. 60-78.

http://books.google.com/books?id=0RwAAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA210&dq=The+Turkomans+observe+a+difference+between+their+children+from+Turkoman+mothers,+and+those+from+the+Persian+female+captives+whom+they+take+as+wives,+and+the+Kazakh+women+whom+they+purchase+from+the+Uzbeks+of+Khiva.+The+Turkomans+of+pure+race+enjoy+full+privileges,+while+the+others+are+not+allowed+to+contract+marriages+with+Turkoman+women+of+pure+blood,+but+must+choose+themselves+wives+among+the+half-castes+and+Kazakh+captives.&hl=en&sa=X&ei=qWNkU4DwMOe1sASY7oDYCw&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=The%20Turkomans%20observe%20a%20difference%20between%20their%20children%20from%20Turkoman%20mothers%2C%20and%20those%20from%20the%20Persian%20female%20captives%20whom%20they%20take%20as%20wives%2C%20and%20the%20Kazakh%20women%20whom%20they%20purchase%20from%20the%20Uzbeks%20of%20Khiva.%20The%20Turkomans%20of%20pure%20race%20enjoy%20full%20privileges%2C%20while%20the%20others%20are%20not%20allowed%20to%20contract%20marriages%20with%20Turkoman%20women%20of%20pure%20blood%2C%20but%20must%20choose%20themselves%20wives%20among%20the%20half-castes%20and%20Kazakh%20captives.&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=FGA7AQAAIAAJ&pg=PA210&dq=The+Turkomans+observe+a+difference+between+their+children+from+Turkoman+mothers,+and+those+from+the+Persian+female+captives+whom+they+take+as+wives,+and+the+Kazakh+women+whom+they+purchase+from+the+Uzbeks+of+Khiva.+The+Turkomans+of+pure+race+enjoy+full+privileges,+while+the+others+are+not+allowed+to+contract+marriages+with+Turkoman+women+of+pure+blood,+but+must+choose+themselves+wives+among+the+half-castes+and+Kazakh+captives.&hl=en&sa=X&ei=qWNkU4DwMOe1sASY7oDYCw&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=The%20Turkomans%20observe%20a%20difference%20between%20their%20children%20from%20Turkoman%20mothers%2C%20and%20those%20from%20the%20Persian%20female%20captives%20whom%20they%20take%20as%20wives%2C%20and%20the%20Kazakh%20women%20whom%20they%20purchase%20from%20the%20Uzbeks%20of%20Khiva.%20The%20Turkomans%20of%20pure%20race%20enjoy%20full%20privileges%2C%20while%20the%20others%20are%20not%20allowed%20to%20contract%20marriages%20with%20Turkoman%20women%20of%20pure%20blood%2C%20but%20must%20choose%20themselves%20wives%20among%20the%20half-castes%20and%20Kazakh%20captives.&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=ZNs9AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA71&dq=The+Turkomans+observe+a+difference+between+their+children+from+Turkoman+mothers,+and+those+from+the+Persian+female+captives+whom+they+take+as+wives,+and+the+Kazakh+women+whom+they+purchase+from+the+Uzbeks+of+Khiva.+The+Turkomans+of+pure+race+enjoy+full+privileges,+while+the+others+are+not+allowed+to+contract+marriages+with+Turkoman+women+of+pure+blood,+but+must+choose+themselves+wives+among+the+half-castes+and+Kazakh+captives.&hl=en&sa=X&ei=qWNkU4DwMOe1sASY7oDYCw&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=The%20Turkomans%20observe%20a%20difference%20between%20their%20children%20from%20Turkoman%20mothers%2C%20and%20those%20from%20the%20Persian%20female%20captives%20whom%20they%20take%20as%20wives%2C%20and%20the%20Kazakh%20women%20whom%20they%20purchase%20from%20the%20Uzbeks%20of%20Khiva.%20The%20Turkomans%20of%20pure%20race%20enjoy%20full%20privileges%2C%20while%20the%20others%20are%20not%20allowed%20to%20contract%20marriages%20with%20Turkoman%20women%20of%20pure%20blood%2C%20but%20must%20choose%20themselves%20wives%20among%20the%20half-castes%20and%20Kazakh%20captives.&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=3U4EAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA210&dq=The+Turkomans+observe+a+difference+between+their+children+from+Turkoman+mothers,+and+those+from+the+Persian+female+captives+whom+they+take+as+wives,+and+the+Kazakh+women+whom+they+purchase+from+the+Uzbeks+of+Khiva.+The+Turkomans+of+pure+race+enjoy+full+privileges,+while+the+others+are+not+allowed+to+contract+marriages+with+Turkoman+women+of+pure+blood,+but+must+choose+themselves+wives+among+the+half-castes+and+Kazakh+captives.&hl=en&sa=X&ei=qWNkU4DwMOe1sASY7oDYCw&ved=0CD0Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=The%20Turkomans%20observe%20a%20difference%20between%20their%20children%20from%20Turkoman%20mothers%2C%20and%20those%20from%20the%20Persian%20female%20captives%20whom%20they%20take%20as%20wives%2C%20and%20the%20Kazakh%20women%20whom%20they%20purchase%20from%20the%20Uzbeks%20of%20Khiva.%20The%20Turkomans%20of%20pure%20race%20enjoy%20full%20privileges%2C%20while%20the%20others%20are%20not%20allowed%20to%20contract%20marriages%20with%20Turkoman%20women%20of%20pure%20blood%2C%20but%20must%20choose%20themselves%20wives%20among%20the%20half-castes%20and%20Kazakh%20captives.&f=false

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Page 210

http://books.google.com/books?id=YMlKAAAAcAAJ&q=The+Turkomans+observe+a+difference+between+their+children+from+Turkoman+mothers,+and+those+from+the+Persian+female+captives+whom+they+take+as+wives,+and+the+Kazakh+women+whom+they+purchase+from+the+Uzbeks+of+Khiva.+The+Turkomans+of+pure+race+enjoy+full+privileges,+while+the+others+are+not+allowed+to+contract+marriages+with+Turkoman+women+of+pure+blood,+but+must+choose+themselves+wives+among+the+half-castes+and+Kazakh+captives.&dq=The+Turkomans+observe+a+difference+between+their+children+from+Turkoman+mothers,+and+those+from+the+Persian+female+captives+whom+they+take+as+wives,+and+the+Kazakh+women+whom+they+purchase+from+the+Uzbeks+of+Khiva.+The+Turkomans+of+pure+race+enjoy+full+privileges,+while+the+others+are+not+allowed+to+contract+marriages+with+Turkoman+women+of+pure+blood,+but+must+choose+themselves+wives+among+the+half-castes+and+Kazakh+captives.&hl=en&sa=X&ei=qWNkU4DwMOe1sASY7oDYCw&ved=0CEgQ6AEwBQ

http://books.google.com/books?id=0RwAAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA210&dq=As+there+exists+a+great+animosity+between+the+Yamuds+and+Goklans+they+do+not+intermarry,+although+they+reckon+themselves+of+equally+noble+lineage.+The+same+hatred+is+extended+to+the+Tekke+Turkomans,+whom+the+Goklans+and+Yamuds,+moreover,+look+upon+as+their+inferiors,+being,+according+to+their+genealogies,+the+descendants+of+a+slave-woman,+whilst+they+are+the+posterity+of+a+free-woman.&hl=en&sa=X&ei=vWNkU6uDOKqssQTx1oDoCQ&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=As%20there%20exists%20a%20great%20animosity%20between%20the%20Yamuds%20and%20Goklans%20they%20do%20not%20intermarry%2C%20although%20they%20reckon%20themselves%20of%20equally%20noble%20lineage.%20The%20same%20hatred%20is%20extended%20to%20the%20Tekke%20Turkomans%2C%20whom%20the%20Goklans%20and%20Yamuds%2C%20moreover%2C%20look%20upon%20as%20their%20inferiors%2C%20being%2C%20according%20to%20their%20genealogies%2C%20the%20descendants%20of%20a%20slave-woman%2C%20whilst%20they%20are%20the%20posterity%20of%20a%20free-woman.&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=FGA7AQAAIAAJ&pg=PA212&dq=The+more+intimate+connection+of+the+Astrakhan+and+Kazan+Tartars+with+the+Mogols+can+be+traced+in+their+features;+with+the+Nogay+it+is+less+visible.+In+like+manner,+the+Turkomans+further+off+in+the+desert,+and+the+Uzbeks+of+Khive,+have+more+of+the+Mogol+expression+than+the+Turkomans+who+encamp+near+the+Persian+frontier.+The+frequent+intercourse+of+the+Nogay,+in+latter+years,+with+the+Cherkess,+seems+to+have+improved+their+race;+and+notwithstanding+the+enmity+that+exists+between+the+Turkomans+and+the+Persians,+it+is+still+not+unlikely+that+their+close+vicinity+should+have+produced+on+the+former+a+similar+effect+in+a+lapse+of+several+centuries&hl=en&sa=X&ei=1mNkU8zHDc3MsQTnlIKoAQ&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=The%20more%20intimate%20connection%20of%20the%20Astrakhan%20and%20Kazan%20Tartars%20with%20the%20Mogols%20can%20be%20traced%20in%20their%20features%3B%20with%20the%20Nogay%20it%20is%20less%20visible.%20In%20like%20manner%2C%20the%20Turkomans%20further%20off%20in%20the%20desert%2C%20and%20the%20Uzbeks%20of%20Khive%2C%20have%20more%20of%20the%20Mogol%20expression%20than%20the%20Turkomans%20who%20encamp%20near%20the%20Persian%20frontier.%20The%20frequent%20intercourse%20of%20the%20Nogay%2C%20in%20latter%20years%2C%20with%20the%20Cherkess%2C%20seems%20to%20have%20improved%20their%20race%3B%20and%20notwithstanding%20the%20enmity%20that%20exists%20between%20the%20Turkomans%20and%20the%20Persians%2C%20it%20is%20still%20not%20unlikely%20that%20their%20close%20vicinity%20should%20have%20produced%20on%20the%20former%20a%20similar%20effect%20in%20a%20lapse%20of%20several%20centuries&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=Rona8Ge_OUAC&pg=PA212&dq=The+more+intimate+connection+of+the+Astrakhan+and+Kazan+Tartars+with+the+Mogols+can+be+traced+in+their+features;+with+the+Nogay+it+is+less+visible.+In+like+manner,+the+Turkomans+further+off+in+the+desert,+and+the+Uzbeks+of+Khive,+have+more+of+the+Mogol+expression+than+the+Turkomans+who+encamp+near+the+Persian+frontier.+The+frequent+intercourse+of+the+Nogay,+in+latter+years,+with+the+Cherkess,+seems+to+have+improved+their+race;+and+notwithstanding+the+enmity+that+exists+between+the+Turkomans+and+the+Persians,+it+is+still+not+unlikely+that+their+close+vicinity+should+have+produced+on+the+former+a+similar+effect+in+a+lapse+of+several+centuries&hl=en&sa=X&ei=1mNkU8zHDc3MsQTnlIKoAQ&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=The%20more%20intimate%20connection%20of%20the%20Astrakhan%20and%20Kazan%20Tartars%20with%20the%20Mogols%20can%20be%20traced%20in%20their%20features%3B%20with%20the%20Nogay%20it%20is%20less%20visible.%20In%20like%20manner%2C%20the%20Turkomans%20further%20off%20in%20the%20desert%2C%20and%20the%20Uzbeks%20of%20Khive%2C%20have%20more%20of%20the%20Mogol%20expression%20than%20the%20Turkomans%20who%20encamp%20near%20the%20Persian%20frontier.%20The%20frequent%20intercourse%20of%20the%20Nogay%2C%20in%20latter%20years%2C%20with%20the%20Cherkess%2C%20seems%20to%20have%20improved%20their%20race%3B%20and%20notwithstanding%20the%20enmity%20that%20exists%20between%20the%20Turkomans%20and%20the%20Persians%2C%20it%20is%20still%20not%20unlikely%20that%20their%20close%20vicinity%20should%20have%20produced%20on%20the%20former%20a%20similar%20effect%20in%20a%20lapse%20of%20several%20centuries&f=false

Page 212

http://books.google.com/books?id=YMlKAAAAcAAJ&q=The+more+intimate+connection+of+the+Astrakhan+and+Kazan+Tartars+with+the+Mogols+can+be+traced+in+their+features;+with+the+Nogay+it+is+less+visible.+In+like+manner,+the+Turkomans+further+off+in+the+desert,+and+the+Uzbeks+of+Khive,+have+more+of+the+Mogol+expression+than+the+Turkomans+who+encamp+near+the+Persian+frontier.+The+frequent+intercourse+of+the+Nogay,+in+latter+years,+with+the+Cherkess,+seems+to+have+improved+their+race;+and+notwithstanding+the+enmity+that+exists+between+the+Turkomans+and+the+Persians,+it+is+still+not+unlikely+that+their+close+vicinity+should+have+produced+on+the+former+a+similar+effect+in+a+lapse+of+several+centuries&dq=The+more+intimate+connection+of+the+Astrakhan+and+Kazan+Tartars+with+the+Mogols+can+be+traced+in+their+features;+with+the+Nogay+it+is+less+visible.+In+like+manner,+the+Turkomans+further+off+in+the+desert,+and+the+Uzbeks+of+Khive,+have+more+of+the+Mogol+expression+than+the+Turkomans+who+encamp+near+the+Persian+frontier.+The+frequent+intercourse+of+the+Nogay,+in+latter+years,+with+the+Cherkess,+seems+to+have+improved+their+race;+and+notwithstanding+the+enmity+that+exists+between+the+Turkomans+and+the+Persians,+it+is+still+not+unlikely+that+their+close+vicinity+should+have+produced+on+the+former+a+similar+effect+in+a+lapse+of+several+centuries&hl=en&sa=X&ei=1mNkU8zHDc3MsQTnlIKoAQ&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAg

Rajmaan (talk) 05:19, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Iraqi Turkmen are NOT the same as these Turkmen

articles on all Turkic-related topics in Wikipedia seem very confused, and subject to a lot of nationalist propaganda. The Turkmen of Iraq and Syria are of an entirely independent ethnicity than the Turkmen of Turkmenistan (or the Turks of Turkey for that matter!) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.188.124.37 (talk) 20:48, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Should this article be moved to: Turkmens

There were recent moves made on the proposal:

• Azerbaijani people → Azerbaijanis
• Bahamian people → Bahamians
• Bangladeshi people → Bangladeshis
• Barbadian people → Barbadians
• Bolivian people → Bolivians
• Chilean people → Chileans
• Colombian people → Colombians

– And many similar articles which, on the same president, I would like moved - as would apply to all demonym based population describing articles in those cases those cases in which the plural form of the demonym differs from the singular form of the word.

As per: Albanians, Americans, Armenians, Australians, Austrians, List of Bahranis, Belarusians, Bosnians, Brazilians, Bulgarians, Lists of Cameroonians and Canadians, ...
As per WP:UCRN as demonstrated in searches in ...

Designations that seemingly should remain as "... people" as the demonym retains the same form when indicating either singulars or plurals: Bhutanese people, British people and Chinese people,

I think that this sets a precedent which, if appropriate, can be followed. GregKaye 11:41, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

"Turkic dynastic mythological system"

This seems like a key phrase, but I don't see it defined anywhere. I don't know enough about it to know if its worthy of its own article, or a just a description here, but the lack of info hurts this article. 155.213.224.59 (talk) 15:38, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Article mixes up different Turkmens

This has been said over and over again on this talk page, it seems, but nobody has arranged it. The very first line says: "This article is about the Central Asian ethnic group. For other related groups, see Turkmen." But then, the introduction states: " a Turkic people located primarily in Central Asia, in the states of Turkmenistan, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Afghanistan (...). Which is plane wrong, because the "Turkmens" in Iraq and Syria are definitely not part of the Central Asian people. They are not more related to Turkmenistan than any other Turk in Anatolia. But even in the infobox, Iraq and Syria do appear.

To clean this up is a huge work, but it should be done. Anybody around there to start doing it or to assist? Ilyacadiz (talk) 14:25, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Turkmen was a synonym for Oghuz Turk

This article is very confusing and providing insufficient or even false information. From the mid 900s until the First World War Turkmen or Turcoman was a synonym for Oghuz Turk. Mustafa Kemal Atatürk wanted to end the Kipchak, Oghuz etc differentiation and therefore called his citizens simply 'Turks' after the First World War. The Oghuz Turks in Syria and Iraq did not go through this process initiated by Atatürk, and therefore still call themselves Turkmens. I think this is relevant information with the current situation in Syria and Iraq. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.114.182.240 (talk) 12:46, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

I agree with the above comment and have made some changes to the article. The term Turkmen is of Persian origin and began being applied to all Oghuz Turks from the moment they embraced Islam in the tenth century. This is the reason why the term has such a wide use today with many groups across the Middle East and Central Asia using it to refer to themselves. Ancestors of the Turkic-speaking population of Iraq, Syria, Jordan and Turkey that is today commonly referred to as 'Turkmen' migrated from Central Asia long before modern-day Turkmens of Central Asia actually formed as an ethnic group and long before they became distinct from other Oghuz-speaking groups of the time. Both groups consolidated into ethnic groups independently of each other, but the generic term for Muslim Oghuz Turks was applied to both of them by extension. This was also the reason why I removed Hayme Hatun and Kemal Kilicdaroglu from the images. Iraqi and Syrian Turkmens nowadays speak varieties of Turkish and Azeri, not Turkmen, and culturally are much closer to other Turkish- and Azeri-speaking groups than to Central Asian Turkmens. There is also no evidence as to whether they identify with Turkmens of Turkmenistan, which is why it would be incorrect to show their population figures in this article's infobox. There should probably be a separate section in this article dedicated to the ethnonym. Parishan (talk) 17:04, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 3 December 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Reasonable arguments in opposition. Jenks24 (talk) 04:33, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

---

Turkmens → Turkmen of Central Asia – Firstly, as requested by numerous Talk page participants, we really need to disambiguate Central Asian "Turkmen" from the "Turkmen" of the Near East, which are quite unrelated to each other, but regularly confused. The disambiguator could alternatively be added in parentheses, if that is preferred.
Secondly, in the majority of reliable sources I found, the plural form of the noun is "Turkmen", too, probably because "men" is already a plural form. This is also reflected by the article titles on Iraqi Turkmen, Syrian Turkmen and Iranian Turkmen.
Both aspects should IMHO be exhaustively discussed first, before consistently implemented not just in the article titles but also in links and mentions within the text. -- PanchoS (talk) 00:02, 3 December 2015 (UTC) Relisted. Biblioworm 20:57, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

The "men" in "Turkmen" is not the English "men", even if it appears so. "Turkmens" is indeed the plural for all these groups. RGloucester — ☎ 02:45, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

@RGloucester: I know that the "men" in "Turkmen" isn't the English "men". Still from what I found, reliable sources tend to spell it without "s", even if used as plural noun. Please convince us, show us evidence that it is the other way around, and I'm really happy with amending my move request. All I want is a well-founded, conscious decision that is consistently applied. --PanchoS (talk) 09:55, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

See this article from The New York Times or this from The Wall Street Journal, for example. "Turkmen" is an adjective, or a singular noun. "Turkmens" is the plural noun. RGloucester — ☎ 14:28, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

@RGloucester: Initially, I thought the same: adjective and singular noun without "s", plural noun with "s".
Until I checked Google ("Turkmen are" vs. "Turkmens are"), Google Books ("Turkmen are" vs. "Turkmens are") and other sources. Amongst others, I came upon these three, publication titles, an entry at the Encyclopedia of the World's Minorities, plus news reports from BBC, Middle East Monitor, VOX, Daily Sabah etc.
All in all it seems to be around 2:1 in favor of the plural noun being "Turkmen" as well. PanchoS (talk) 19:20, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

Judging by what I'm seeing in the searches you posted, sources that predate the recent involvement of the (Levantine) Turkmens in the international Syria saga, "Turkmens" dominated. On that basis, it may be the case that non-specialist texts describing the events that occurred have made a simple error in assumption about the use of "men". This is WP:RECENTISM, and I would suggest not following such a trend away from the norm of "Turkmens" until it is confirmed by reputable scholarly sources. Furthermore, the searches you've provided seem to deal with Levantine Turkmens, as opposed to the Central Asian variety. Even if such a change is recorded for Levantine Turkmens, I do not think that would have an effect on the Central Asian variety's name. RGloucester — ☎ 19:36, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose per User:RGloucester. Wikipedia typically uses (correct) plurals for peoples (e.g., Azeris, Nogais, Kipchaks). another option would be to use "people" as we do with Turkish people, i.e. Turkmen people. Note that many of the hits cited above in the Google Books searches above are for the language rather than the people (e.g., "...suffixes of standard Turkmen are presented...", "...both Turkish and Turkmen are close Turkic languages"). —  AjaxSmack  13:56, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

---

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

A lot of falsifications on population section

Both user falsified [1], [2]. The estimate for Iran is 1-2% and both users falsified CIA data.--188.158.84.116 (talk) 10:49, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

Turkmens in Afghanistan

The Turkmens in Afghanistan are almost 2 Millions. The statistic 400.000 is from 1997 so i think it is Time to refresh it :D Actually theire are plenty other sources but they are in Persian or in Pashto or Turkmeni that is the English side i have found.

https://joshuaproject.net/people_groups/15654/AF — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prinsofpersia1999 (talk • contribs) 11:21, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

In Afghanistan more than 6 million Turkmens living Oğuz Türkmen oğlu (talk) 13:43, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Iraq and Syria?

in iraq and syria there are signaficant turkmen population — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.44.29.248 (talk) 03:52, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Iraqi Turkmen and Syrian Turkmen are not part of the ethnic Turkmen diaspora, as they have not migrated to these regions from Turkmenistan. O.celebi (talk) 22:53, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

You wrote wrong Turkmens population

You wrote wrong Turkmens are in Afghanistan maybe more than 6 millions why you wrote wrong please correct that Oğuz Türkmen oğlu (talk) 13:41, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

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Current edit warring over genetics: WP:SCIRS

@Hunan201p:, @Manasam98:, I don't intend to involve myself too closely in this, but I just wanted to point out what our reliable source guidelines (WP:SCIRS say about genetics sources, namely:

Respect primary sources

A primary source, such as a report of a pivotal experiment cited as evidence for a hypothesis, may be a valuable component of an article. A good article may appropriately cite primary, secondary, and tertiary sources. Use of primary sources should always conform to the No original research policy.

However, primary sources describing genetic or genomic research into human ancestry, ancient populations, ethnicity, race, and the like, should not be used to generate content about those subjects, which are controversial. High quality secondary sources as described above should be used instead. Genetic studies of human anatomy or phenotypes like intelligence should be sourced per WP:MEDRS.

So that this is clear, the guidelines describe the three types of sources as follows:

A primary source in science is one where the authors directly participated in the research. They filled the test tubes, analyzed the data, or designed the particle accelerator, or at least supervised those who did. Many, but not all, journal articles are primary sources—particularly original research articles. A secondary source is a source presenting and placing in context information originally reported by different authors. These include literature reviews, systematic review articles, topical monographs, specialist textbooks, handbooks, and white papers by major scientific associations. News reports are also secondary sources, but should be used with caution as they are seldom written by persons with disciplinary expertise. An appropriate secondary source is one that is published by a reputable publisher, is written by one or more experts in the field, and is peer reviewed. University presses and other publishing houses known for publishing reliable science books will document their review process. Do not confuse a scientific review (the article/document) with peer review (the activity).

Any sources being used on this article for information on genetics that do not meet this guideline are not RS and should be removed.--Ermenrich (talk) 13:01, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

Why exclude mentioning the Turkmen's haplogroups Q and other Y-DNA haplogroup

Is there any reason why you can't mention it's Y-DNA aswell ? What is the reason for this exactly, please explain

DerekHistorian (talk) 14:37, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

Stop edit warring and non-stop reverting

@DerekHistorian and Hunan201p: Both of you should bring your concerns to talk page and solve it here. If you can't reach a consensus, ask for Wikipedia:Third opinion, Wikipedia:Requests for comment, or Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard. Same applies to other articles that you have reverted the edits of each other. --Wario-Man (talk) 13:01, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

@Ermenrich: DerekHistorian is repeatedly reverting this page to include misleading primary research about Turkmens. I removed his contributions in the "ethnogenesis" section because they are primary sources of minority Turkmen tribes from outside Turkmenistan, and replaced them with Wells (2001), as it was performed on majority tribe Turkmen within Turkmenistan. He has also tried to emphasize the individual haplogroup clades of Turkmen and has even lied about the Yomut Turkmen in a study he posted residing in Turkmenistan. Finally, I removed the Y-DNA section he placed at the end of the article. Hoe many ethnic group articles have a whole section devoted to Y-DNA haplogroups, including irrelevant info like the distribution of Y-DNA clades among the ancient Xiongnu (which was incidentally removed from the Xiongnu article).

It is clear that DerekHistorian is trying to make Turkmen out to be "paternally" East Asian, but Wells (2001) suggests that is not the case. Note that DerekHistorian has also tried to discredit Wells (2001) on the "Y-DNA haplogroups of central Asia" page by reverting to unsourced claims that it is "widely regarded as erroneous", without providing any source that this is so: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Y-DNA_haplogroups_in_populations_of_Central_and_North_Asia&action=history -- Hunan201p (talk) 19:24, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

Did you mean to ping Wario-Man? I can only repeat his advice: you should try to take this to somewhere to resolve the dispute rather than edit warring. If the problem persists, take it to WP:ANI with a few diffs of DerekHistorian's edits, but be aware that if the community thinks you've acted just as badly as he has you might be sanctioned yourself. The solution to this is not, at all rate, edit warring.--Ermenrich (talk) 19:35, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

No, I meant to ping you. Since you have advocated for enforcement of WP:SCIR, i would like to get your thoughts on the ethnogenesis section od this article as well as your comments on the separate "Y-DNA haplogroups of Turkmens" section, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkmens#Y-DNA_haplogroups_of_Turkmens which I believe contains information you already removed from the Xiongnu article. Do you see original research in "Y-DNA haplogroups of Turkmens?" - Hunan201p (talk) 20:21, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

Wario-Man This general topic area wide issue may belong on DR, tbh, the question is if anyone has the patience for that.--Calthinus (talk) 16:30, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

@Calthinus: If Hunan201p thinks DerekHistorian falsifies or misrepresents sources, then this case belongs to WP:ANI. He better provides his evidences there. If both users have legit points but they can't agree with each other, then DR could solve their issues. For the other edits, I just mention one example. This removal [3] by Hunan201p is OK. Part of removed text was AsadalEditor's unsourced stuff.[4] AsadalEditor was a sockpuppet and most of his leftovers are problematic; e.g. take a look at his edits on Indo-Iranians and other IE topics which were removed by other editors. He falsified and misrepresented sources. I don't trust any of his leftovers on the articles edited by him. The rest of removed text was a product of another sockpuppet.[5] Sockmaster User:Rajmaan had a long history of copy-pasting and dropping wall of text on articles; usually using outdated, biased, unreliable or primary sources. --Wario-Man (talk) 18:44, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

@Hunan201p: Your request at WP:RFPP for semi protection would not solve the dispute, and it would need further justification. I have fully protected the article for a week and any admin is welcome to alter the protection with no need for consultation. Warning to those who are editing: being right is not listed as an exemption from the WP:3RR edit-warring policy, and observing 3 reverts in 24 hours is not sufficient to avoid sanctions if engaged in a slow edit war. Please post a new section explaining what the problem with the disputed edit is, using simple terms that uninvolved people can follow. Ask for opinions at WP:RSN regarding any disputed sources. Ping me if further procedural information is wanted. Johnuniq (talk) 05:58, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

@Johnuniq: I'm surprised someone would actually locked the page to help Hunan201p,je having edit warrings, edit wars with 10 different users. In Turkmen's case he doesn't edit the Y-DNA of Turkmen. I asked the the question and he doesn't do anything. Why doesn't he add Turkmen Y-DNA haplogroups?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Hunan201p_(talk_%C2%B7_contribs)_personal_attacks_and_preventing_me_to_edit.

I'm using only few examples here. Non-sop edit warring he is properly going to do this for years. Either a troll or have clear strong agenda.

[6]

In Ashina tribe page, edit war for 2 weeks with user Beshogur |Leppaberry-123 [7]

In Mal'ta–Buret culture-123 page, edit war for 1-2 week with user [User:Leppaberry-123 [8]

In Y-DNA haplogroups in populations of the Caucasus edit war for 1-2 weeks with User:Calthinus [9]

In Ancient North Eurasian edit war with Krakkos, Chris Capocci, Bathtub Barracuda for 1-2 weeks [10]

DerekHistorian (talk) 12:32, 15 September 2019 (UTC)