Talk:Deaths in 2018

A suggestion

I have a small suggestion in the way the article is currently displayed. My suggestion is to introduce a navigation bar as done in the article Portal:Current events/October 2018 which, at the top of the page uses a navigation bar to select different months. If it is possible, please include arrows at both the sides which must point to next and previous years.Adithyak1997 (talk) 15:25, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

We have this at the bottom of the page with a header included in the TOC, but I'm not opposed to a clean navbox up top. As for pointing to previous years, those don't last long (see Deaths in 2017). — Wyliepedia @ 18:44, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

My only proviso would be that, whatever modified navigation device is inserted into the Deaths page, it does not shove the first set of entries even further down the page view than at present. The content is more important than the niceties, IMO. Ref ^(chew)(do) 21:01, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

Correct, a navbox up top would be purely cosmetic. While the current TOC grows daily, it is tidier, doesn't affect page flow (except line wraps lengthier recent entries), and contains a page jump to previous months. Some people need further guidance, I suppose. — Wyliepedia @ 04:16, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

We need more editor input on this, otherwise there's a danger of no consensus and no change even if beneficial. Ref ^(chew)(do) 15:07, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

My view is the present layout gives readers a methodology of moving to previous months / years, without comprising the entries themselves by being displaced further down the page. Generally, readers are far smarter than we compilers think. - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 15:16, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

Agreed, no change necessary. WWGB (talk) 10:56, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

Consensus seems to be heading for no change on an opinion basis - any other comments from those who haven't already? Ref ^(chew)(do) 15:21, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

Wikidata/Reasonator links

I almost made a bold edit, changing this:

• Bartolomé Bennassar, 89, French historian.

...to this:

• Bartolomé Bennassar, 89, French historian.

...but stopped myself, because the "Wikidata; Reasonator" text looked a little too weird and out of place. Still, I think it'd be useful to direct readers/editors to Wikidata and/or Reasonator when we don't (yet) have an English version, especially on an article like this one, which is in six languages as of this writing. Thoughts? -- RobLa (talk) 01:48, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Not at all impressed. You said it yourself - "a little too weird and out of place" - plus, get a good few of those on the page and it would take ages to load. We're always trying to keep the page code lean and clean, and that would defeat that object to start with. Ref ^(chew)(do) 02:05, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

I have never been a fan of inter-language links. Permanent inclusion of the deceased on this page is determined solely by the existence of an article in the English Wikipedia. Little blue tags do not change that position. Obviously, I do not favour expansion of such links. WWGB (talk) 02:08, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Ills yes, Wikidata no. There have been several times I have created enwikis based on an entry's foreign-wiki, just by checking that little blue link. It saves an extra step for anyone whose first language is English but might speak a certain second language. Wikidata isn't a little blue link. — Wyliepedia @ 14:10, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

Nikki Delamotte

I am not convinced that Nikki Delamotte is notable. A 30-year-old culture reporter for a local newspaper? Zigzig20s (talk) 07:05, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

IMO, thirty days will tell us on this one. She was a journalist for a US publication with its own English language article here, the manner of her passing is eminently newsworthy judging by numerous entries in the Google search for her. Whether she will ever be deemed notable enough for her own article remains to be seen, I would have thought, and on that basis we usually keep for a month. Ref ^(chew)(do) 19:03, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

That's (partially) a half-truth. She wrote for Cleveland.com, a US website with no English language article nor straight news department of its own. It just licenses that sort of boring content from The Plain Dealer, sort of like a small-time newswire operation. More like cousins than sisters, in a business sense. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:12, November 19, 2018 (UTC)

It seems she was the victim of murder-suicide by her uncle.[2] It is possible that an article Murder of Nikki Delamotte could emerge, which would make her eligible for inclusion here. WWGB (talk) 00:13, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

Request to move page to Deaths in November 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. The proposer misunderstands how the pages work. They are usually moved to month-listing after the passage of the month in question. (non-admin closure) –Ammarpad (talk) 09:50, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

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Deaths in 2018 → Deaths in November 2018 – This page is misleading the only deaths are in the month of November not the entire year. They are other pages that show deaths in months in 2018. If you like the name as is please make this page about every death in the year and not just November. Phoenix X Maximus (talk) 01:33, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

This is what happens when a 16-year-old kid with 150 edits is allowed to edit Wikipedia. 124.169.5.169 (talk) 05:01, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

Hey, now, there's no need for that. While it certainly would have been preferable for him to have discussed this instead of just going ahead with it, it's not necessary to try to demean that user. --Waluigithewalrus (talk) 07:37, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

• Note Fixed malformed RM request per WP:RM/CM Hhkohh (talk) 01:39, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
• Strong oppose the deaths get categorized into their own month page after a month passes, I don’t see how people feel misled coming here. Rusted AutoParts 01:54, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
• Strong oppose I'm in agreement with Rusted AutoParts. This is meant as more of a recent deaths aggregator until we get a few days past the end of the month when the month's deaths get put in their own page. Moving the title of this page would cause issues once we start getting into December. --Waluigithewalrus (talk) 02:10, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
• Strong Oppose for the same reasons outlined by User:Rusted AutoParts and User:Waluigithewalrus.--TommyBoy (talk) 02:41, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

• 110% Oppose for the same reasons outlined above. How many times on the 1st or 2nd do I look back to the last few days of the last month & see a name in there that gives a shock. Leave it alone. If it aint broke dont fix it! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.162.217.122 (talk) 03:02, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
• Strong Oppose. The main page of the English Wikipedia links here through Recent deaths under In the news. Recent deaths and its current landing page Deaths in 2018 receive about 3 million visits each month. It is critically important that the status quo not be altered. Deaths in all months of the year are accessible through the Table of Contents. WWGB (talk) 04:10, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

• Strong Oppose I'm not sure what prompted this requested move. But there are a solid half dozen editors who are dedicated to keeping this page up-to-date and relevant and manage the moves and deletions at the end of the month. The system works well and if it's not broken, I don't see a reason to change it. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:43, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

• Strong Oppose For the reasons listed above. Also, when a new month begins (except January), the previous month's listings remain displayed for 6 days. So your suggestion for the current month's deaths would fail for that reason. Erasmussen (talk)
• Strong oppose - a subject page needs an overall heading, which in this case is (logically) "Deaths in [year]", after which sub-sections then break down into component months. The project itself as an encompassing entity is never known as "Deaths in [month][year]" - why would it be? Due to the sheer length of the lists of notable deceased, it is necessary to archive previous sub-sections into separate containers of their component months. Each component month is clearly and handily listed in a menu for easy access. There is no innate logic in relegating this main and up-to-the-minute page into just another component month, and the knock-on effects of dealing with the logistics of re-arranging menu linkings would also be counter-productive in my opinion. The maxim "if it isn't broke, don't fix it" fully applies here too, and I suspect there may be just a small few who are suffering boredom in editing the same old the same old. THAT is not a good enough reason to introduce change either, if true. Ref ^(chew)(do) 06:48, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

(By the way, Phoenix X Maximus, what you propose would lead to ONE page for the whole of 2018 so far, and that would be a page that, due to its massive massive length and heavy source coding, would NEVER load!) Ref ^(chew)(do) 06:53, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

• Strong Oppose For the reasons listed above. In a practical mode it works and helps in orientation--Noel baran (talk) 06:59, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
• Strong Oppose Because I said so — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:4C8:141A:D22:1:2:8C0:CF33 (talk) 08:25, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
• Strong Oppose Nonsense request. --Necrologio (talk) 08:58, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
• Strong Oppose: I can see no logical reason why a page like this be renamed every month. Deaths in all months of the year are already accessible on their own. The Optimistic One (talk) 09:00, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Earlier months

I can understand the confusion with a title of "Deaths in 2018" that starts in November, would it not be easier to put the earlier month links at the top to make it clearer rather than hide them at the bottom? MilborneOne (talk) 10:02, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

The solution would be to rename the page to recent deaths, as it's linked from the mainpage, and no-one is typing "deaths in 2018" into the search box. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 10:54, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

See above. — Wyliepedia @ 14:30, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

But as with other "encompassing" project pages in Wikipedia, which also chronologically contract into an archive, its title is an anchorpoint from which editors and readers start to explore all Deaths in the specific year. I honestly don't understand how there is the slightest misconception. It's not an article ABOUT deaths in the year, as such. It's clearly, to anyone who looks at it closely on first visit, an article forming a LIST of Deaths. As mentioned in the renaming consensus above, if you kept all deaths so far in 2018 on one page, the page would never load, being overly bloated by sheer weight of source coding. We very much make the best of a bad job in some ways, but the overriding logic coming from that discussion above is that it doesn't really work better in any other form that regular editors can think of. Ref ^(chew)(do) 16:12, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

BTW, how "recent" would "Recent deaths" be, actually? Another logistical parameter nightmare springs up through that change, if applied. Ref ^(chew)(do) 07:11, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

Wayne Maunder

Wayne Maunder seems to have died of a heart attack on November the 11th or 12th. This has been confirmed by many close people on social media and the usually reliable BootHill blog. Anyway a proper obit has not appeared yet and it is not guaranteed it will (strange, but something it goes like this). Can't we use this site as a source? Aveleyman is very reliable on those matters and I don't think it is a blog (at least blog is not contained in the url) and is written by experts I think. I think we could put Maunder up using this while we wait for a better source, but this should be acceptable. --Folengo (talk) 11:05, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

I think not. This is an individual's website, with no indication of reliability or fact checking. If indeed Maunder is dead, why have no mainstream sources picked up the story? WWGB (talk) 11:11, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

I'm not absolutely doubting his death. Unless all his friends wanted to prank the entire world Maunder is really really dead. It's just mainstream sources sometimes are not interested (why? only God knows) in deaths of those who, indeed, are not household names. We can only live in hope, but I'm 100% sure Maunder is dead. --Folengo (talk) 11:19, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

Tell me about it. Only found out the other day that Babs Beverley, one of the British singing sisters, had died in October. And that was exactly when her entry was put into Deaths in October 2018 - very very late indeed. If a great media source doesn't see fit to report such a demise, we can't do a thing. Resorting to Twitter and Facebook, just to be clear in my view, would be the big slippery slope as an alternative. Ref ^(chew)(do) 16:16, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

@ThylekShran: the source you are in contact with who was able to help with J.E. Freeman, has he heard anything about Maunder by any chance? Rusted AutoParts 17:13, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

Maunder will be largely featured in the upcoming film Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, so he should get at least some mention in the press before the film is released.--Folengo (talk) 18:16, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

It will mostly come down to whether outlets can fully verify the death. Like I pointed out it took awhile to be able to source J.E. Freeman because at the time his wishes were to not have it announced at that time. It’s just gonna have to be a game of patience until we can cite it properly. Rusted AutoParts 18:23, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

There are some people that when they die want their deaths kept private for one reason or another. Most famous example I can think of was Beth Howland of Alice Fame. Her death was not announced by her husband until months past her death date. So if Mr. Maunder had those wished it could be awhile until we get official verification.

@Rusted AutoParts: He's looking into it. He's trying to get in touch with Mr. Mauder's family. I'll let y'all know if/when he hears anything. Hopefully we'll have an answer soon. --ThylekShran (talk) 00:45, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

This confirms his death. Il Messaggero is one of the biggest and most reputable newspapers in Italy Plus Maunder's wife is Italian (from Naples I think), so no wonder it was firstly reported in Italy. --Folengo (talk) 16:11, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

And now The Hollywood Reporter has confirmed. I’d say it’s case closed. Rusted AutoParts 17:42, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

Horse death dates

I’ve always felt that there’s a very high amount of horses being added whose deaths aren’t ever disclosed in the announcements. It’s always struck me as odd (and a bit annoying). Sometimes it makes me curious to the day they are announced as having passed also serves as the DOD. But I know this doesn’t hold any water as it’s only my assumption. Rusted AutoParts 19:53, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

I don't know much about nags, but are they not all deemed to be born on 1 January in whatever year ? If so, it probably makes the date of death less important. Mind you, if we did not cover horses etc. here, then it would not be an issue. We'll have trees listed on here next... hang on, we already have. - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 20:09, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

Group effort Olympic medals

Viktor Matviyenko's Olympic medal got removed for being a group effort. Didn't we reach some sort of consensus that NHL wins should be mentioned? That's a group effort. Shouldn't that apply to Olympic medals too? Nukualofa (talk) 21:37, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

Agreed, I have restored the Olympic team medal. WWGB (talk) 01:19, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

December 1

According to the Wikipedia page relating to Frederick Fasehun, he was born in 1938 which makes him 80. Which is correct? 203.196.41.161 (talk) 21:41, 1 December 2018 (UTC) Editrite!