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October 22

judgement enforcement

why is it that enforcement of judicial decisions are done by the executive actors and that the judiciary is deficient in power to do so? Grotesquetruth (talk) 08:04, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

Because it's dissociating the judiciary action, thus the judiciary time, from the time of urgency. Besides its capacity to mandate is indicative of its power, rather than coincidently, its strength. Whereas power may be challenged through its capacity, it's much harder to efficiently challenge one enabled through mandate because emerges first it's the object of the mandate that has to be challenged. --Askedonty (talk) 08:54, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

If this power is not granted to the judiciary, this is done by design to create a balance of powers between various powerful actors. You don't want to give any one party the power to act as a prosecutor, judge and executioner. This would make it very hard to counter abuse of power.  --Lambiam 17:31, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

See Separation of powers. Xuxl (talk) 19:19, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

In fact enforcement has not to be specificaly related to the executive, see Police power (United States constitutional law) --Askedonty (talk) 19:32, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

I get tired of saying this, but in what jurisdiction are you asking about? The legal and political systems of the world are not universal, and when you ask these broad questions without specifying which legal/political system it is basically impossible to answer. Everyone here has been answering based on which system they are familiar with based on where they live, but there is nothing universal about this. OP, I ask again: Where are you asking about? And from today forward, please ALWAYS indicate so when you ask these questions. It really makes a BIG difference. --Jayron32 15:30, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

My response was not based on a system I am familiar with based on where I live. Please note the conditional in "If this power is not granted to the judiciary, ...". In other words, the reply did not assume the judiciary lacks to power to enforce judicial decisions. I cannot construe such parochial views from the other responses either.  --Lambiam 20:08, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

October 23

When did the border between Turkey and Armenia close?

Armenia–Turkey border says 1993 but:

• On which day precisely did the land border close? when was it voted/announced?
• What about direct flights?

A455bcd9 (talk) 11:16, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

This article says 4 April, but this one and this one say 3 April. This book also goes for 3 April. Alansplodge (talk) 20:40, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. It's also April 3rd according to the BBC, I'll add this date to the article. A455bcd9 (talk) 08:47, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

What about the airspace? This source says April 5th. I found another one saying 1994. But it reopened at least in 2022: Al Jazeera, Azatutyun, if not before 2020, 2015. A455bcd9 (talk) 08:56, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Also, Armenia–Turkey relations gives a different version as resolution 822 was adopted on 30 April 1993: "Turkey cosponsored UN Security Council Resolution 822 affirming Nagorno-Karabakh as part of Azerbaijan's territorial integrity and demanding that Armenian forces withdraw from Kelbajar. Later in 1993 Turkey joined Azerbaijan in imposing an economic embargo on Armenia and the border between the two states was closed." A455bcd9 (talk) 08:58, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

October 24

What happens to child beggars after they grow older?

What do their masters do with them after they leave childhood and become adults especially the ones that are completely blind, deformed with sulphuric acid and knives, or missing a limb or two? Not saying they had much of a childhood to begin with since this type of economic activity typically began when they were toddlers but they stop making as much money as they get older since I am sure that people with coins to spare are much more sympathetic to begging children than adult beggars. StellarHalo (talk) 07:01, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

• I would assume that many (most?) don’t make it to adulthood. Blueboar (talk) 11:37, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
• If they're still poor, they presumably go on to become beggars. Is this a trick question? Matt Deres (talk) 15:52, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

  These children are slaves though. They are begging on the streets not because they choose to do this but only because their owners force them to after having bought/kidnapped and maimed them. My question is what happens to these children once they outlive their usefulness? StellarHalo (talk) 20:20, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

  They become politicians. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:21, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

  The theme of child beggars who go on to great success is a recurring theme in literature. Kim by Rudyard Kipling is one example. Citizen of the Galaxy by Robert A. Heinlein is another example. Cullen328 (talk) 01:30, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

• Interesting enough, an oft repeated claim [1] [2] [3] [4] is "And when trafficked children get too old to beg effectively, they often graduate into forced prostitution, the black-market organ trade, or other gruesome fates." The wording of the last one varies a bit e.g. other underground activities or even in become suicide bombers in the Pakistani source. Note that the Slate source may be the originator of this specific claim, it seems to be the oldest, but also it's the only one which gives a source for it which is this document 2008 [5]/[6] and I'm not convinced the supporting document really support the claim. While I didn't read it entirety, from what I can tell while it talks about forced begging and trafficking for forced begging, along with trafficking for other purposes including forced prostitution although nothing about the black-market organ trade AFAICT; it doesn't seem to particularly talk about trafficked children being moved into other activities when they get too old. (There is mention of how one victim was sold at a discount because he was getting too old, but this story ends with the victim being arrested for overstaying their visa.) So while I don't doubt all of those happen I also suspect some of them are simply abandoned as they get too old and their captor no longer feels they can use them nor can they find someone to sell them to. As mentioned by others, some may die before then but also some may fall out of their captors control before then including those ones fortunate enough to be rescued, but also for other reasons e.g. in some cases where they are arrested, those who are deported etc. Also it's not clear to me if the OP understands that not all children beggars are under someone else's control. As the mentioned by the 2008 document, street children obviously beg as well even when not under the control of some other party. These street children are vulnerable to being captured and forced into activities including continued begging, but it does not mean it always happens and there's also likely to be varying levels of control and exploitation even when there are other people involved. (See e.g. [7] [8].) In some cases it may also be at a family level and again, there will be varying levels of exploitation and coercion and different things may happen as the child gets too old. Nil Einne (talk) 12:19, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Has Caesar seen a Unicorn?

I have been reading the comic Asterix and the Griffin. One of his aides talk about Griffin, and Julius Caesar is interested, but also sceptical. He says "On your say-so, I stated in my 'Gallic Wars' that there were unicorns in Germania, which earned me quite a lot of comment in forums". This is, of course, a fictionalized version of Julius Caesar, and the comic is all about satire and counterfactual history, but an editor's note next to the Unicorn comment says "True". Is it true? Did the real Caesar mention unicorns in the Commentarii de Bello Gallico? The article does not say so, but it would be a useless trivia that may not be noteworthy for mention in it anyway. Cambalachero (talk) 14:38, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

• 6.26
• Hyde, Walter Woodburn (1918). "The Curious Animals of the Hercynian Forest". The Classical Journal. 13 (4): 231–45.
• Aili, Hans. "Caesar's elks: interpolation, myth, or fact?" (PDF). Eranos. 105: 4–17. (on authorship question)
• Allen-Hornblower, Emily (December 2014). "Beasts and Barbarians in Caesar's Bellum Gallicum 6.21-8". The Classical Quarterly. 64 (2): 682–693. (WP:Library, see fn# 41)
• Wiener, Leo (1917). Contributions toward a history of Arabico-Gothic culture. pp. 58–9, 240–3.

Based on above i don't think it is useless trivia at all, and some content in De Bello Gallico and Hercynian Forest would be valuable. Aili and Allen-Hornblower seem to have decided that the passages were in fact due to Caesar, but don't know that should be definitive, or if the bos cervi figura reindeer was influenced by the unicorn tradition. So that's a lot of reading that does not really answer your question. fiveby(zero) 13:11, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

October 25

What are May Lights in reference to old Customs and Excise documents?

[9]https://archive.org/details/reportbythomastu71tuckuoft/page/52/mode/2up While researching for an essay I came upon this set of Graphs detailing the customs and excise of various Scottish ports over various periods of time. I (or at least I think I) understand that customs and excise are the taxes of goods entering and leaving the country respectively, though I have no clue what the "May Lights" row is for, and what it means in relation to the other information. 2A02:C7C:C828:A600:1802:AD6C:D067:7C4C (talk) 13:52, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Isle of May#Lighthouses? fiveby(zero) 13:59, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Ah, and note in that article that the lighthouses charged a fee to ships. Note also that in the customs report, "May lights" only occurs under ports on the Scottish east coast, where the Isle of May is. I think that must be it. --174.89.144.126 (talk) 14:32, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

The Literary Panorama and National Register - Volume 3 - Page 1025 (1816) says:

May Lights. It is with great pleasure we congratulate the public and the nautical world , on the alteration which took place lately on the Isle of May, by the substitution of an oil light, with reflectors, contained within a glazed room, instead of an exposed coal fire.

Alansplodge (talk) 11:52, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

billionaire

I had thought that a billionaire was someone with 1e9 bucks in the bank or some equivalent in owned assets that could in principle be sold, or that sort of thing. That is, assets that are under someone else's control don't count. Thus the term "F-U money". But now I hear[10] that Ye aka Kanye West just lost his billionaire status as a result of Adidas unilaterally (though with justification) cancelling a joint marketing deal:

Forbes magazine said the end of the deal meant Ye's net worth shrank to $400 million. The magazine had valued his share of the Adidas partnership at $1.5 billion.

Do those sorts of potential income streams that depend on someone else's good graces usually count as assets? I have a pretty dim opinion of Ye, Adidas, expensive sneakers, and the whole general situation around celebrities, so am mostly asking this just as a matter of understanding concepts. (I don't hold the crazy rant against Ye that much personally though, since it's like when a mentally ill person goes into a violent rage. It's mostly just sad and the best I can do is hope that the person recovers).

Thanks. 2602:24A:DE47:B8E0:1B43:29FD:A863:33CA (talk) 23:18, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Assets, in this context a synonym of wealth, is something else than income. Someone whose net worth (assets) is high can have a low income; perhaps they own a de Kooning while living on a small pension. Conversely, someone can have a very high income but spend all on gambling, so in the end their wealth amounts to nothing and their heirs may inherit only debts.  --Lambiam 17:18, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

I understand that about assets, I'm asking if it still counts as an asset if its disposition is actually controlled by someone else. Like you have a de Kooning painting, but the de Kooning estate can reclaim it from you if you post a tweet that they don't like. Also, the de Kooning painting can in principle be exchanged for cash, but a personal brand like Ye's is harder to exchange that way. I'm not feeling sorry for Ye, I'm just of the impression that his wealth was overstated since it it included stuff that he didn't completely own (as evidenced by Adidas being able to obliterate it). 2602:24A:DE47:B8E0:1B43:29FD:A863:33CA (talk) 22:21, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

• Yes, they count as assets, perhaps intangible assets. Branding, Goodwill (accounting), etc. Abductive (reasoning) 05:56, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
  • Thanks, I have to wonder about the accounting, especially if that value was at someone else's whim. Or if it was protected by a contract with a DBAD clause, could someone as volatile as Ye have gotten insurance against the clause triggering? For that matter, if I have a contract with Elon Musk saying that tomorrow he's going to flip a coin and pay me $3 billion if it comes up heads, can I claim to be a billionaire today? Maybe yes, in the sense that maybe an insurer or other backer would pay me $1B today for the 50% chance (minus some Musk flakiness risk) of collecting $3B tomorrow. Goodwill per the article only comes from acquisitions, which doesn't apply to Ye afaict. 2602:24A:DE47:B8E0:1B43:29FD:A863:33CA (talk) 15:35, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

    While maybe less on perceptions of the person, realistically any billionaires net worth nowadays (except for maybe for a few) depends on other people in some way. Often not quite as much or in the same way as Ye, however if we take Elon Musk, if people stop thinking Tesla and SpaceX are worth what they are, his value would significantly tank. In fact Musk is a particularly interesting example. Perhaps not quite so much any more, I'd suggest for a long while, Tesla's and probably SpaceX's value depended significantly on perceptions of Musk. To the extent that I suspect there was a time if Musk had died or suffered a catastrophic brain injury, Tesla's share price would have lost 50% of its value or more. I mean look at what happened when Musk smoked weed on the Joe Rogan show only ~4 years ago. And think of the wild swings in net worth of anyone who's net worth largely derives from bitcoin and for a brief period GameStop. While true most of these could in theory move their networth to something else entirely at the present value without too much loss, this isn't the case for someone like Musk for example. (And actually I do wonder how easy it would be to convert e.g. a networth of $100 million in bitcoin to something else.) Nil Einne (talk) 13:15, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

October 26

What percentage of Jews in Israel could be considered "indigenous"?

I saw someone equate Palestinian political violence to Native American violence against white settlers in the Americas and equate all violent acts by Israel, its military, police and settlers to violence white settlers inflicted on Native Americans. He also went on to assert that Palestinians have a right to resist Israel which he described as a settler-colony formed out of conquest that is intent on building and maintaining a militaristic ethnostate by way of forcing Palestinians out of their homes and out of the state and replacing them with predominantly European Jewish people. If the Jews in Israel are indigenous, however, much of his argument falls apart. What percentage of Jews in Israel could be considered "indigenous"? Or are Jews actually white and no white can be considered "indigenous" except the Sámi and the ones in Russia? If the latter is the case, I will be sure to discuss it in my upcoming Village pump proposal. StellarHalo (talk) 04:24, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

At one point, the PLO basically stated that it would expel all Jews who arrived after 1917 (the year of the Balfour Declaration and the British conquest of the region from the Ottoman Turks). However, your question unfortunately is rather meaningless in some ways. For example, well over one million Israeli Jews either came from Arab countries (such as Iraq and Yemen) or descend from such immigrants. Are they supposed to return to those countries where they're not wanted, and where they were undeniably "indigenous", but from which their communities have been systematically ethnically cleansed?? There were Jews in Libya long before there were any Arabs there, but in 1967 about 99% of them were expelled from the country. And Israel is "militarized" because of constant Arab military threats against it, not to mention constant wannabe-genocidal rhetoric about throwing the Jews into the sea or similar... AnonMoos (talk) 10:35, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

From Palestinian Jews:

When the First Palestinian Congress of February 1919 issued its anti-Zionist manifesto rejecting Zionist immigration, it extended a welcome to those Jews "among us who have been Arabicized, who have been living in our province since before the war; they are as we are, and their loyalties are our own."

The Palestinian National Charter, as amended by the PLO's Palestinian National Council in July 1968, defined "Palestinians" as "those Arab nationals who, until 1947, normally resided in Palestine regardless of whether they were evicted from it or stayed there. Anyone born, after that date, of a Palestinian father—whether in Palestine or outside it—is also a Palestinian. The Jews who had normally resided in Palestine until the beginning of the Zionist invasion will be considered Palestinians."

The article does not provide an answer to SH's bold question.

There is a degree of melting pot among Israeli Jews of different ethnic origins. It would be difficult to ascertain the identity of a descendant of both 19th-century Palestine Jews and recent arrivals. The article includes:

Actor, director and activist Juliano Mer-Khamis, the son of an Israeli Jewish mother and a Palestinian father, described himself in a 2009 interview with Israel Army Radio as "100 percent Palestinian Arab and 100 percent Jewish".

How indigenous would he be?

--Error (talk) 11:58, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Also the indigenousness of some Palestinians can be disputed. Famously, Yasser Arafat:

Arafat was born in Cairo, Egypt.[1929] His father, Abdel Raouf al-Qudwa al-Husseini, was a Palestinian from Gaza City, whose mother, Yasser's paternal grandmother, was Egyptian. Arafat's father battled in the Egyptian courts for 25 years to claim family land in Egypt as part of his inheritance but was unsuccessful.[...] Arafat was the second-youngest of seven children and was, along with his younger brother Fathi, the only offspring born in Cairo. Jerusalem was the family home of his mother, Zahwa Abul Saud, who died from a kidney ailment in 1933, when Arafat was four years of age. [...] Arafat's first visit to Jerusalem came when his father, unable to raise seven children alone, sent Yasser and his brother Fathi to their mother's family in the Moroccan Quarter of the Old City.

About this Moroccan Quarter:

It was set aside for "the benefit of all the community of the Maghreb of all description and different occupations, male and female, old and young, the low and the high, to settle on it in its residences and to benefit from its uses according to their different needs." Soon after, Jews, many also from North Africa, were also allowed to settle in the city. By 1303, Maghrebi people were well established there, a fact attested by the endowment of a Zāwiyah, or religious institution such as a monastery, made by 'Umar Ibn Abdullah Ibn 'Abdun-Nabi al-Maṣmūdi al-Mujarrad for this quarter. [...] Originally developed for Maghrebi people, over the centuries Jewish, Christian and Muslim people from Palestine and elsewhere had at various times taken up residence there. By the time Israel decided to demolish their houses, roughly half of the zone's inhabitants could trace their origins back to Maghreb immigrants.

Palestine Arabs moved around the Ottoman Empire according to their possibilities. They would be attached to their families and places rather than to an extended territory. The establishment of a Palestinian identity uniting Arab Christians and Arab Muslims from a certain territory is the result of nationalism in general, and Arab nationalism and Zionism in particular.

--Error (talk) 11:29, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

• Indigenous peoples is not a quantifiable concept that has a strict, bright-line definition. Typically indigenousness is defined by relation to a colonizing culture; it's a relational definition, not one based on a specific date or time or location, but based on the relationship between two cultures. For example, who is indigenous to the country of England? Well, the English people are. The English culture as we know it today really didn't become a thing until well into the High Middle Ages however. When the Norman conquest happened, there were no English. There was the Anglo-Saxon people, who were in some sense indigenous in relation to the Normans in the 11th century, and to the Danes in the previous centuries (i.e. Danelaw); but the Anglo-Saxon people were colonizers in relation to the native Celtic Britons, who would have been indigenous in that relation, however the Celts displaced an earlier culture, having only themselves arrived in Britain in the 1300s BCE or so. We can do these kinds calculations ad infinitum, because over history humans have been highly migratory, and culture is highly fluid as it changes and evolves over time. Ultimately, the most useful way to think about these things is "what is the relationship between these cultures". Are the cultures co-existing in the same space with an equal power relationship? Is one acting in a colonial relationship towards the other? Etc. The "Definitions" section of the above linked article on Indigenous peoples is informative here, to wit, "living descendants of pre-invasion inhabitants of lands now dominated by others. They are culturally distinct groups that find themselves engulfed by other settler societies born of forces of empire and conquest"." --Jayron32 21:10, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Instead of asking for a percentage of "indigenous" Jews, one might consider the somewhat complementary percentage of descendants of Jewish immigrants. However, this also runs into definitional issues. For example, should descendants of immigrants of the First Aliyah be counted? Their ancestors, at the time of the proclamation of the State of Israel, will mostly have been already second- or third-generation residents. The section Demographics of Israel § Jews gives the percentage of Israeli Jews whose "recent ancestral background" by paternal country of origin is Israel as 37% in 2008 and 44% in 2012. I do not see a definition of "recent".  --Lambiam 17:10, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Abraham-Louis Breguet

Please, can you upload on commons this file about his son: it's from here? Thank you very much. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.13.89.132 (talk) 09:43, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

The whole page or just the portrait? I believe uploading the page would be a breach of copyright. Alansplodge (talk) 14:22, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Just the portrait. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.207.152.161 (talk) 14:26, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

It's far to small to make a useable image, can you get a better one? I don't have access to the original, but try opening the page and press "print screen" (PrtScr) on your keyboard. BTW, we already have this image of Antoine-Louis Breguet if that helps. Alansplodge (talk) 15:57, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Then can you search for a new site about that book? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.207.152.161 (talk) 16:37, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

I've uploaded a better version at commons:File:Antoine-Louis Breguet (2).jpg  --Lambiam 16:39, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Thank you very much. If you have that site, can you see if there are other paintings about his father, his son, or their family that aren't on commons yet? Moreover, can you search for a painting about his father along with Napoleon Bonaparte at a Louvre's reunion? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.207.200.183 (talk) 18:05, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Completorium

banned user
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
The hours of prayer, taken over from the Jews, were Prime, Terce, Sext, None, and Vespers (Evensong). Later two more were added to bring them up to the magic number seven - Compline and Nocturns. The Latin name for Compline is completorium, i.e. it completes the devotions ("The last of the Canonical hours of prayer") [11]. It used to be broadcast on BBC Radio 4 around 11 PM on a Saturday night. All services at Canterbury Cathedral are live-streamed - Evensong is streamed daily at 5:30 PM. Every so often Will Adam comes on Twitter [12] to announce he is doing Compline at 5:00 PM, but it is always streamed at that time. Why does it precede Evensong? 92.19.172.198 (talk) 12:52, 26 October 2022 (UTC) See Compline#Anglican usage. Evening Prayer (or Evensong if there's a choir) was originally an amalgam of the Catholic services of Vespers and Compline first published in the Book of Common Prayer during the Reformation in England. The canonical hours were replaced by the Daily Office in the BCP, which consisted of only two services, Morning and Evening Prayer. The Anglican version of Compline is a recent add-on which can be led by a lay person, and although recognised as a late-evening liturgy, there is no particular timing prescribed in it. I imagine that if a church were offereing both Evening Prayer and Compline, then Evening Prayer would indeed come first, but I don't think that often happens. The modern Compline is a quite brief affair which is probably better suited to a social media audience. The caveat is that I'm not a theologian, so I stand to be corrected on this. Alansplodge (talk) 14:14, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Where might one find Vardmyln?

In The compt buik of David Wedderburne a mention on page 141 is made of an Alexander Piersone, the husband of David's Sister-in-law to whom he gives a red gilded stirrups and girdle, as well a New Testament text. This passage also mentions that (as far as I understand it) this transaction took place either at Vardmyln or the package was delivered to Vardmyln by David. However I am not entirely sure on where Vardmyln might be. Searches seem to relate the term possibly to some scandanavian area, which could be plausible considering the wide range of Scottish diaspora at the time, but I cannot source and exact location. If anyone here might have an idea on where (or what, if I've been misled due to an error in my translation of the old text) this place might be Copter Faustus (talk) 12:59, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

On page 112 there's a reference to "the Vardmyln", on a page where another ship is named, so probably a ship not a place. 92.19.172.198 (talk) 13:12, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Not finding anything direct, but an Alexander Peirson was a Scottish MP at that time and held lands near Dundee, so perhaps the name of an estate there? Alansplodge (talk) 13:54, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Yeah that could be a possibility. Looking at that passage, in my head I'm currently translating that as "I lent George Auchinlek my wooden pint-sized flagon with the money (or possibly just the message to ask for them) to send to the Vardmyln for the vinegar there that I still want." Separating the word into "Vard" and "Myln" seems to bring up some results (Vard) (Mylne) from which my best guess is that it could be a place. There are various locations within dundee starting with Castle (Castle Street and Castle Terrace comes to mind for being close to the port area of Dundee). Copter Faustus (talk) 14:05, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

The name also occurs in the variant spelling "Vardmylne" on page 108: "Ane obligatione maid be Henry Betoun wryttin and subscryvit be him and the gudeman of Ardowny and Alexander Peirsone of Vardmylne his cautioneris of j^e lib and 4 bollis meill of the dait the 26 and 27 October 1596 and subscryvit be Westhall Johne his brother".^[13]  --Lambiam 12:57, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Ardowny and Vardmylne are mentioned in one breath in that passage, which may suggest they were not located far apart from each other. Here, on page 178, Bamff charter 163, we read, "the teinds of the lands of Ardowny in the parish of Monyfuith", which I suppose corresponds to Monifieth in Angus, Scotland.  --Lambiam 13:31, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Wardmylne/Wardmilne/Wordmilns/Wardmills was also a place in the Forfar/Dundee/Perth regions under discussion here, mentioned repeatedly (with all these spellings) in the family records collected here. 70.67.193.176 (talk) 19:29, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

The heading of that family-records page refers to "the Wardmylne of Arbroath". I suppose there was only one Wardmylne, which then must have been a property located in Arbroath. Indeed, in the book History of Arbroath to the Present Time we find: "the mills called the common mill and Wardmill", ^[14] as well as "Wardmill Croft"^[15] and "the Wardmills".^[16] In 1552, "the lands of Wardmill", property of the Abbey, were granted to Sir John Marjoribanks.^[17]  --Lambiam 09:18, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Pinpointing it, perhaps, 19th-century maps show a Ward Mill Brick & Tile Works and a Ward Mill Hill on the (then) northern edge of Arbroath on the eastern bank of Brothock Water. Google Maps shows a Wardmill Road in the same place. --Antiquary (talk) 12:28, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

In Eminent Arbroathians: being sketches historical, genealogical, and biographical, 1178-1894 (p. 86), a "Mr Alexander Peirson" is listed as a councillor of Arbroath in October 1624. Alansplodge (talk) 13:27, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

The name ward mill road is also visible on the first of these 19th-century maps, near the bottom of the cut out, where it meets cross mill wynd.  --Lambiam 14:18, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

An extensive report on Arbroath Abbey found online^[18] contains, as Appendix 1 on page 61, an annotated map. By its appearance this map is from the 19th century. It shows a structure with the label Ward Mill. Additionally, it carries the annotation The Wardmill, mill croft, and cellarer's croft. The structure is also visible on the first of the 19th-century maps showing the Ward Mill Brick & Tile Works, but is not labelled there. On that map it is just south of the southern tip of the body of water labelled Mill Dam.  --Lambiam 18:17, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Traditional clothing of Central Asia

What are the traditional clothing that men wear in Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan? Are they common? Donmust90 (talk) 15:46, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

See Central Asian clothing and Kazakh clothing. Alansplodge (talk) 16:17, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

The Wikipedia categorization system is the most useful way to get answers to questions like this; Category:Clothing by ethnicity and Category:Clothing by country and Category:Clothing by culture are perhaps most useful here. --Jayron32 20:55, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

October 27

Russian Empire

Who was the police's head who arrested Lenin's older brother in 1887? And the supreme head of the Cossacks during the Jews' pogroms under Aleksandr III? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.207.168.131 (talk) 14:08, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Regarding the second question, I don't think there was a single unified group of Cossacks. There were the Kuban Cossacks of the Kuban Oblast (which today roughly corresponds to the Krasnodar Krai) and the Don Cossacks of the Don Host Oblast, (today roughly the disputed Donbas region of Ukraine). Surely they had leaders, but I can't find who the leader of the two hosts were at the times requested. Perhaps these links will lead you to some sources to research. --Jayron32 15:52, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Regarding the first question, thus and this and this have some additional details on the arrest, but do not list the arresting officer, nor the agency they worked for; I suspect they would have been officers of either the Okhrana or the Separate Corps of Gendarmes, which had an intertwined history in late 19th century Russia. Each of those sources have additional more detailed histories of Aleksandr Ulyanov's life where you might find more information. --Jayron32 16:05, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Regular police, political police and gendarmes under command of Lieutenant General ru:Peter Gresser Prefect of Saint Petersburg. fiveby(zero) 03:25, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Thank you very much. Who were the heads of the prison and the ploton where he died?

The prison where he was kept and hung was Shlisselburg Fortress, so perhaps knowing that will help your research. --Jayron32 13:16, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

can you help me with those searchs because i don't have time? thank you. --193.207.181.239

When is your homework assignment due? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:43, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Pomper has the conspirators initially interrogated at Gorokhovaya 2, then placed in solitary confinement in the Trubetskoy Bastion of the Peter and Paul Fortress. The commandant was Adjutant General Ivan Ganetsky, Ivan who died April 8 and was replaced by Vladimir Veryovkin. On April 14 they were transferred and held during trial at Shpalernaya 25 the House of Preliminary Detention then returned to Peter and Paul fortress and transferred to Shlisselburg May 5. I think we are looking at Kasper Kazimirovich Pokroshinskii commandant and Matvei Sokolov superintendent of gendarmes but having trouble finding the exact dates for their administration. fiveby(zero) 15:35, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Gresser was an absolutist, loyal to the autocracy?

I can only point you to some contemporary accounts and you can decide based on the extent and exercise of his authority. fiveby(zero) 16:35, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

For Lenin, his older brother, and Stalin, do you know if in their early lives there were some related persons in particular loyal to the autocracy who then become their tsarist enemies? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.244.89.142 (talk) 11:18, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

References

Number of lawyers, legal ops, paralegals by country

Reading Legal industry by country (not the best article we have...) I wondered:

• How many people work in legal services globally? by country? Including lawyers (members of the bar), non-lawyers, legal ops, paralegals, law librarians, etc. Both in law firms (private practice), corporate legal departments (in-house), and public bodies (local governments, public administrations, etc.).

A455bcd9 (talk) 17:22, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

I can't find stats directly, but your best lead may be the International Bar Association. https://www.ibanet.org/ seems to be their main website. Perhaps that may give you a lead. --Jayron32 18:10, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Thanks @Jayron32. Unfortunately, I can't find any data on their website. Also, they don't seem to represent all legal practitioners (for instance, notaries public don't seem to be part of the IBA). A455bcd9 (talk) 18:26, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Fair enough. In several google searches, some of the reports by their "research" division kept turning up, I thought that might be the best shot for getting some statistics. Good luck. --Jayron32 18:29, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

I hesitate to offer this as even a data point, but I was curious what Wolfram Alpha would make of it. As an American company it obviously interprets "how many lawyers are there in the world?" to mean "within the US" and comes up with the answer of 681,010 and then provides additional info saying that another 27,790 are judges/magistrates, 13,840 are adjudicators/hearing officers, and 7,320 are arbitrators/mediators. That doesn't seem to cover your broad definition, though. When I ask about paralegals, it gives answers of 336,250 + 51,040 title examiners + 46,090 legal support workers. The sources seem to indicate the data comes from US Bureau of Labor Statistics. Maybe I'm just blind, but I'm not seeing exactly where those numbers come into it. As a way of approximating your question, we could tally up the above (plus whatever related occupations you like), divide by the US population to get a % and then multiply that by the world population to get a ballpark number. I suspect the US probably has more lawyers per capita than other countries, but if we had that data around, we probably wouldn't have to do the approximation. FWIW, the numbers I have above come to 1,156,020. When I ask Wolfram how many legal professionals there are in the world, it tells me there are 1.17814 million, so obviously there are a few more in the total not defined above. Matt Deres (talk) 17:11, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Thanks @Matt Deres. Wolfram Alpha seems wrong as, according to the American Bar Association's 2022 ABA Profile of the Legal Profession, there are 1,327,010 active lawyers in the US as of Jan. 1, 2022. Then, there are 336,250 "Paralegals and Legal Assistants" (source). And that's for the US only. I feel like the only way to find the answer to my question would be to look country by country, which professions are admitted to practice law (for instance notaries are full lawyers in Quebec, Puerto Rico, and Louisiana, but not in the rest of North America) and count them. A455bcd9 (talk) 17:44, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

It's odd that the paralegal number is bang on but the lawyer number is so far off. I wonder if judges, for example, are in that number. Well, good luck with your research; I suspect it will be a difficult task. Avoiding double-counting and shifting definitions from jurisdiction to jurisdiction will make this challenging. Matt Deres (talk) 19:14, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Maximilien de Robespierre

Please, can you search if existing paintings about his parents, paternal and maternal grandparents, or her sister Henriette, and upload them on commons? Thank you very much. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.207.200.183 (talk) 20:59, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

You're allowed to do so yourself, no one here will stop you. That being said, I did a good-faith search myself. Searches for his mother, Jacqueline Marguerite Carrault, turn up basically nothing, except pictures of either Maximilien Robespierre himself, or that of his sister, Charlotte. Searches for his father are complicated by the fact that his father also had the name Maximilien in his full name, François Maximilien Barthélémy de Robespierre, though if we take it to François de Robespierre we get a French Wikipedia article, but as Maximilien also has François in his full name, any Google Image search using either his father's full name OR common name gets swamped with pictures of Maximilien; as you can see here. --Jayron32 12:31, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

I had a look too and also drew a blank. It seems likely to me that none of these people ever sat for a potrait (a very expensive process), or if they did, they have not survived. Alansplodge (talk) 13:12, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

There were sometimes engravings of people who didn't have formal painted portraits, such as Phyllis Wheatley etc. AnonMoos (talk) 13:23, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

The problem is that none of Robespierre's relatives were famous in their own right (as far as I can tell), so there wasn't much incentive for anyone to create their image. But I might be proved wrong. Alansplodge (talk) 18:58, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

In a comic about Robespierre there was a scene about Jerome Petion's dead body found out devoured by wolves. Can you search if exist a painting about it? Thank you very much. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.244.89.142 (talk) 10:24, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

How could it exist as a classical painting ? The period is before the romantic era, the event is not a public event, the protagonist had lost his statutes and he was not heralded a hero or a martyr later. What was the scene in the comic ? There should have been more than one corpse, according to accounts by local officers, worth reportedly the death certificate. --Askedonty (talk) 18:03, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

October 28

Napoleon Bonaparte

Someone had tried to kill him during a troops' revist in Boulogne-sur-Mer for England's invasion. When it happened and by who? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.207.192.236 (talk) 15:54, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

We have an artricle, Assassination attempts on Napoleon Bonaparte. This, however, does not seem to contain the attempt at Boulogne-sur-Mer. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 17:02, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Hmmm... Not finding anything to support that. Napoleon's Shield & Guardian: The Unconquerable General (pp. 112-116) gives a fairly detailed account of Napoleon's visits to Boulogne, but no memtion of any assassination attempt. It does mention a plot which was foiled in early 1804, allegedly involving Louis Antoine, Duke of Enghien, who was abducted from Ettenheim by French gendarmes and cavalry and subsequently shot at the Château de Vincennes; however, there doesn't seem to be any connection with Boulogne. Alansplodge (talk) 17:05, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

(ec)Cadoudal landed 3 August 1803, but can't find anything connecting the conspiracy to the Boulogne camp. fiveby(zero) 18:11, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Does the OP have a reason to think there was an assassination attempt in Boulogne-sur-Mer? DOR (HK) (talk) 21:48, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

October 29

Did the IRA follow the laws and customs of war during the Troubles?

During The Troubles, did the IRA...

• have a clear chain of command that included all its combatants?
• wear fixed distinctive markings visible from a distance?
• bear arms openly?
• grant POW status to any of the enemy combatants it captured instead of torturing and summarily murdering them?
• refrain from abducting, torturing, and murdering civilians?
• conduct all their operations in accordance with all the laws and customs of war?

StellarHalo (talk) 01:13, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

It was estimated that, between 1969 and 1994, the IRA killed about 1,800 people, including approximately 600 civilians. So no, terrorists gonna terrorist. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 02:06, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Do you happen to know why so many people today including many of the Catholic Irish not only do not see the IRA members as terrorists but also even thought that they somehow deserve a POW status after going on a hunger strike in the Maze? StellarHalo (talk) 02:34, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

I'm not sure that they wanted fully-formalized Geneva Convention POW status -- just mainly recognition that they were politically-motivated, not ordinary common criminals. AnonMoos (talk) 02:44, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

All sides (IRA factions, Unionist militia groups, the British Army) wantonly killed civilians at times. After three lengthy investigations, no single British soldier has ever been held individually responsible for Bloody Sunday (1972), which did not necessarily encourage the use of precisely legally scrupulous tactics by others... AnonMoos (talk) 02:44, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

David James Cleary may yet receive a prison sentence[19] rather than a Mention-in-Despatches. fiveby(zero) 03:49, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, but that's happened only within the last month, and hasn't yet resulted in a trial or conviction... AnonMoos (talk) 06:28, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

I wonder why some of these centuries old West Eurofeuds bury the hatchet so soon and others stay like Montagues vs Capulets till almost 2000. Is it true when Henry the something and James the First became king of England Welsh and Scottish nationalists stopped wishing they had the military strength to get everything back? Would a Catholic Irishman somehow becoming king of England and presumably doing the best he can about Brits being dicks to Catholics have stopped over a century of fighting? Presumably it's more about this dickery and retaliation tennis than it is about Catholic vs Protestant (probably even the English Catholics and Protestant Spaniards stopped being bothered long ago) but why did some zones get along better despite being annexed later than Belfast (some German states annexed others by war in 1866 then they fought France together in 1870 and fused 1871 no hard feelings. Or many times in European history a non-native would become leader of X with little to no fight cause he didn't want to be a dick or change much, just wanted native leader's taxes) Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 05:30, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Relations between two countries which are separated by hundreds of miles (and water), like England and Spain, are generally not in the type of situation which leads to long-term hatreds. Just a few decades after the Armada, Spain was no longer fanatically committed to overthrowing the government of England, and after France started to replace Spain as the dominant and threatening power in Europe, there was already an English-Spanish quasi-alliance in 1667. Historically-contested land borders (which armies have marched back and forth across many times) and civil wars are much more likely to lead to long-term hatreds. The separation between the UK and Ireland was incredibly violent across Ireland (not in offshore naval battles), and it took place just over a century ago (not in 1588), so it's not surprising that it still has lasting after-effects. AnonMoos (talk) 06:28, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

The Troubles (1969-1998) were a conflict between two communities rather than between two nations. Civil wars are always worse. Alansplodge (talk) 11:37, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

In his book "Unsung Hero" Kevin Fulton describes this clearly. Yes, there was a chain of command. The IRA had a sort of military structure and was organised into brigades or units with a chief of staff and Officer Commanding in each area. Most of the work was done by volunteers who were addressed as volunteers. There was "staff" who were paid pittance from the IRA's illegal business activities like drug dealing and fuel smuggling. They didn't wear a uniform or anything or openly carry arms, they were a secret organisation who engaged in asymmetric warfare strategies. They didn't really take a lot of people prisoner anyway, their main weapon was simply to murder people in the british security forces. Sometimes a civilian was killed because of bad planning or whatever for their bombs. They also carried out punishment attacks on people who live in areas they controlled and their own members, like the famous "kneecapping". So yes, there was torture. Sometimes it was in the context of an internal investigation to identify a mole leaking information to the RUC. However, they had an odd rule never to execute someone without a confession, which could be tortured out of them. 85.210.185.87 (talk) 14:22, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

At earth what is the position of the circle with biggest area where no island (no matter how small it is) is inside the circle?

At earth what is the position of the circle with biggest area, where no island (no matter how small it is) is inside the circle? 179.134.99.224 (talk) 02:02, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Point Nemo Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 02:13, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

So the OP has found Nemo? Clarityfiend (talk) 06:53, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Thanks I forgot that with no point other than a pole of inaccessibility related circle you will have a circle with bigger area without land inside it. Also, the circle: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EnCdebeW8AEsjtR?format=jpg&name=large 179.134.99.224 (talk) 19:07, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Anecdotes from yesterday

• The Streltsy sentenced to death after their revolt generally behaved with great courage. Arriving at the place of the beheading, one of them, a certain Ivan called Eagle, pushed the head of the companion who had preceded him away from the block with a slap, exclaiming: "Now let's put mine on!" Peter, struck by such strength of spirit, immediately graced him.
• The crowd's enthusiasm for Louis XIV, King of France, known as the Sun King, sometimes bordered on delirium. When the Duke of Burgundy, eldest son of the Dauphin, was born, the crowd invaded the courtyard and antechambers of Versailles. The King gave everyone his hand to kiss. A commoner, in kissing it, bit it, and explained his act as follows: "If I hadn't bitten you, sire, Your Majesty would never have noticed me!..."

I've read these anecdotes many years ago in some comics. Is it real or just fantasy? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.244.89.142 (talk) 07:45, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

The first is a story is the supposed founder of the Orlov family.

The second is reported by François Guizot in L'Histoire de France

Thank you very much. For Ivan Orel and Spinola, is there some site with a full biography?

ru:Орловы has a bit more, citing Voldemar Balyazin. Google has a preview. fiveby(zero) 15:40, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

For Spinola, what was his full name? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.207.193.99 (talk) 17:32, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Google has some volumes of François-Timoléon de Choisy's Memoires pour servir a l'historie de Louis XIV, but either my searches are failing or they don't have the correct volume. Maybe Paolo Spinola, 3rd Marquis of Los Balbases? fiveby(zero) 18:31, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

References

The Rose of Versailles

In this chapter, setting in 1762, appears the unnamed village where André Grandier was born eight years before. Can you discovered it from the church tower or other scenes? It could also be Arras, where the Jarjayes family had some lands. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.244.89.142 (talk) 09:41, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Note that Arras was a major city in the 18th century, a centre of the wool trade, not a village. Have you considered that the artist may have made it up? A fictional village for a fictional character? Alansplodge (talk) 11:21, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

In a page of that chapter is also called "town", then... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.244.89.142 (talk) 11:24, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Okay, but it doesn't look like any ancient church in Arras that I could see. I don't raelly know how you would research this, other than going through each community in the Pas-de-Calais to find a visual match, a process you are welcome to try yourself; Category:Communes of Pas-de-Calais might be a good starting point. Alansplodge (talk) 11:57, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

OK, but can you help me with that research because I don't have time now? Thank you very much. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.2.233.154 (talk) 12:38, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Well my guess is that the artist just drew a generic church spire. Alansplodge (talk) 17:43, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Maybe you're right, but this is an historical manga. Can you do that only to be sure? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.207.193.99 (talk) 18:04, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Jean Castex's national identity & French policies on regional languages

Before serving two years as Prime Minister of France from 2020 to 2022, center-right French politician Jean (or maybe Joan) Castex served for 12 years as the mayor of Prades (Prada de Conflent) in what was once known as Northern Catalonia. According to his article, he is a fluent Catalan speaker and is regarded as a defender of the Catalan identity.

What are Castex's views and opinions on...

• the fact that France is a highly centralized unitary state unlike Spain and the UK?
• the French Constitution that explicitly establishes France as one and indivisible along with French as the sole official language (Article 2)?
• French policies on minority and regional languages?
• vergonha?
• the French Revolution that abolished all the old provinces including Roussillon?
• Henri Grégoire?
• Jules Ferry?
• the end of Basque home rule in France 80 years before the one in Spain?
• the Toubon Law?
• the Académie Française?
• Paul Molac's 2021 unconstitutional bill that would allow immersive teaching of minority languages?
• the allegedly "double" national identities of the individuals who won the 2018 FIFA World Cup Final? (the Trevor Noah vs Gérard Araud twitter fiasco)

Also, in case any of you are wondering how the Catalan nationalists in Spain view France, be sure to watch this short video from earlier this year. StellarHalo (talk) 19:30, 29 October 2022 (UTC)