Talk:List of states with limited recognition: Difference between revisions
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Seeing as the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan controls Afghanistan de facto. And the internationally recognized government is in exile. I think it should be listed in some capacity. Its similar to Taiwan in many respects. Afghanistan really has no recognition at the moment. Am I wrong? At the very least the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan is a state that has no recognition. And it controls territory and around 40 million people. [[Special:Contributions/108.39.196.77|108.39.196.77]] ([[User talk:108.39.196.77|talk]]) 18:40, 16 February 2024 (UTC) |
Seeing as the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan controls Afghanistan de facto. And the internationally recognized government is in exile. I think it should be listed in some capacity. Its similar to Taiwan in many respects. Afghanistan really has no recognition at the moment. Am I wrong? At the very least the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan is a state that has no recognition. And it controls territory and around 40 million people. [[Special:Contributions/108.39.196.77|108.39.196.77]] ([[User talk:108.39.196.77|talk]]) 18:40, 16 February 2024 (UTC) |
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== Wa and Chin states, Kurdistan, and Azawad == |
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Neither of the these states are listed here, and though the latter does ot control major cities, other ones do have more or less of control over their claimed territory and functional government. I suggest they should be added to the article. [[Special:Contributions/176.36.187.17|176.36.187.17]] ([[User talk:176.36.187.17|talk]]) 04:02, 19 February 2024 (UTC) |
Revision as of 04:02, 19 February 2024
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Wa State
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wa_State
Wa State controls territory, it has relations with china, iirc, while it doesn't see itself as an independent state, since the Myanmar civil war, it acts as such. 79.77.67.121 (talk) 11:44, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
- If even the state itself doesn't claim to be independent, it absolutely should not seen as something to add to the list. Gnerkistanislaviyort (talk) 08:49, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
- It is still De-Facto independent, Artsakh didn't itself claim to be independent but a part of armenia for alot of the time. but it was included. this is de-facto recognised by the People's Republic of China[1][2][3] 77.44.68.140 (talk) 10:31, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
- We should also add Chinland Gorgonopsi (talk) 12:23, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
- It is still De-Facto independent, Artsakh didn't itself claim to be independent but a part of armenia for alot of the time. but it was included. this is de-facto recognised by the People's Republic of China[1][2][3] 77.44.68.140 (talk) 10:31, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
Ambazonia, Western Togoland, West Papua, Biafra
All of these are groups that declare independence, and control some territory. 77.44.68.140 (talk) 10:38, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
- These are de facto states, not states with limited recognition. These states, along with some breakaway regions in Myanmar (such as the Wa State), have received no diplomatic recognition from the international community. Maybe we can create another article named List of de facto states for them? 2001:8003:9100:2C01:D015:BF4E:5E4C:B752 (talk) 03:22, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
- Somaliland was listed here as 'states with no recognition' before the deal with Taiwan was signed. However, it was only Somaliland, and not other 'de facto' states (that were still in there war of independence). Still, a 'self proclaimed states' article should be added to fill the gap between micronations and limited recognition states.
- ASmallMapleLeaf (talk) 21:10, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
Why is the Republic of Artsakh removed from the list?
Okay, I know the Republic of Artsakh will cease to exist from 1 January 2024, but it still has nearly a month of life left. Why we removed them early? As of today, the official website of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Artsakh is still up and running, this country is still alive.
Links:
https://www.nkr.am/en/general-information 2001:8003:9100:2C01:110B:5058:3F5A:723B (talk) 00:37, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
- I have to agree, there is no need to jump the gun. M.Bitton (talk) 22:47, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Selfstudier: @M.Bitton: good on both arguing over capitulated non existing state. Beshogur (talk) 12:49, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
- I don't see the harm in waiting for the official date? Until then it exists, at least legally. Selfstudier (talk) 13:13, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
- This list does not include entities that exist only in their own legal framework without actual de facto existence, unless they are recognised by a UN member state. Artsakh did not meet this second criteria for the entirety of its existence, and no longer meets the first. CMD (talk) 17:02, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
- I am not going to argue over something less than a month if that's what people want :) Selfstudier (talk) 17:10, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
- You guys are just cruel to the Republic of Artsakh. It still has three weeks of life left. 2001:8003:9100:2C01:D015:BF4E:5E4C:B752 (talk) 03:15, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
- This list does not include entities that exist only in their own legal framework without actual de facto existence, unless they are recognised by a UN member state. Artsakh did not meet this second criteria for the entirety of its existence, and no longer meets the first. CMD (talk) 17:02, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
- I don't see the harm in waiting for the official date? Until then it exists, at least legally. Selfstudier (talk) 13:13, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Selfstudier: @M.Bitton: good on both arguing over capitulated non existing state. Beshogur (talk) 12:49, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
Gagauzia
According to Wikimedia Commons, Gagauzia is also a state with limited recognition.
Link: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Countries_of_Europe 58.160.77.124 (talk) 09:08, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
- The list in that article includes territories with special status in addition to states with limited recognition. Gagauzia is one of the former. Alaexis¿question? 14:49, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
Chinland
On the page for the Myanmar civil war (2021–present) it says that Chinland was established as a separate state on the 6th of December and it looks like it controls much of its claimed territory Pierce spacem (talk) 12:25, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
- In general the Myanmar militias claim to be fighting for federal statehood. If they aim for independence, we would want some good quality sources asserting they could be considered a de facto state. CMD (talk) 13:17, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
- This instance does appear to be slightly different. A quick search gave me this article: https://myind.net/Home/viewArticle/chinese-backed-rebels-in-myanmar-declare-new-country-on-indias-eastern-border.
- Does seems a bit questionable in parts though (mainly relating to China/India).
- ASmallMapleLeaf (talk) 16:26, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
- Other sources:
- ASmallMapleLeaf (talk) 19:06, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
- it seems to be legit from what i can see, either way, we had artsakh on there when it claimed to be part of armenia, we also had somaliland when it had no recognition. i'd definitely support its addition Gorgonopsi (talk) 20:57, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
- Artsakh did not claim to be part of Armenia, Somaliland's purported recognition is unclear. The longstanding consensus on this page is that a clear source is needed establishing that a polity is effectively a de facto state, a news report on a declaration of independence is insufficient. CMD (talk) 02:37, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
- They had it on maps everywhere, eitherway we also have Cook Islands, Niue, Republic of CHina, all of which do not claim to be independent. Gorgonopsi (talk) 11:18, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
- For the first two we have sources where they are recognised as states, for the last we have many sources noting its effective de facto statehood. CMD (talk) 01:10, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
- we had somaliland on the list when they wern't recognised, Gorgonopsi (talk) 00:01, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
- They meet the second part of my comment. CMD (talk) 07:43, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
- we had somaliland on the list when they wern't recognised, Gorgonopsi (talk) 00:01, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
- For the first two we have sources where they are recognised as states, for the last we have many sources noting its effective de facto statehood. CMD (talk) 01:10, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
- They had it on maps everywhere, eitherway we also have Cook Islands, Niue, Republic of CHina, all of which do not claim to be independent. Gorgonopsi (talk) 11:18, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
- Artsakh did not claim to be part of Armenia, Somaliland's purported recognition is unclear. The longstanding consensus on this page is that a clear source is needed establishing that a polity is effectively a de facto state, a news report on a declaration of independence is insufficient. CMD (talk) 02:37, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
- it seems to be legit from what i can see, either way, we had artsakh on there when it claimed to be part of armenia, we also had somaliland when it had no recognition. i'd definitely support its addition Gorgonopsi (talk) 20:57, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
- This seems better suited for inclusion in the list of rebel groups that control territory. WMSR (talk) 01:28, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
South Korea
Looks like South Korea can be removed from the list and the map, as with the recent closure of the reunification bureau, North Korea also recognized South Korea (from the published Kim Jong Un's speech on the subject: "Today the Supreme People's Assembly newly legalized the policy of our Republic toward the south on the basis of putting an end to the nearly 80 year-long history of inter-Korean relations and recognizing the two states both existing in the Korean peninsula." and "Since our Republic definitely defined the ROK as a foreign country...."). --2A02:8070:A182:7560:0:0:0:3222 (talk) 16:29, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
- Are there secondary sources which interpret these North Korean actions in this way? Alaexis¿question? 08:04, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
- https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/north-koreas-kim-calls-change-status-south-warns-war-2024-01-15/
- 'Kim said the constitution should be amended to educate North Koreans that South Korea is a "primary foe and invariable principal enemy" and define the North's territory as separate from the South.'
- So, when the North Koreans change their constitution to define its territory as separate from the south (which probably won't take long...) I suppose South Korea can get taken off the list. 180.231.250.240 (talk) 12:04, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
Afghanistan
Seeing as the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan controls Afghanistan de facto. And the internationally recognized government is in exile. I think it should be listed in some capacity. Its similar to Taiwan in many respects. Afghanistan really has no recognition at the moment. Am I wrong? At the very least the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan is a state that has no recognition. And it controls territory and around 40 million people. 108.39.196.77 (talk) 18:40, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
Wa and Chin states, Kurdistan, and Azawad
Neither of the these states are listed here, and though the latter does ot control major cities, other ones do have more or less of control over their claimed territory and functional government. I suggest they should be added to the article. 176.36.187.17 (talk) 04:02, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- ^ Kumbun, Joe (23 April 2019). "Protected by China, Wa Is Now a de Facto Independent State". The Irrawaddy. Archived from the original on 29 November 2022. Retrieved 11 September 2022.
- ^ 29 December 2004, 佤帮双雄 Archived 25 May 2005 at the Wayback Machine, Phoenix TV.
- ^ Steinmüller, Hans (2018). "Conscription by Capture in the Wa State of Myanmar: acquaintances, anonymity, patronage, and the rejection of mutuality" (PDF). London School of Economics. Archived (PDF) from the original on 25 October 2021. Retrieved 17 April 2021.
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