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February 14

Operation of small-craft marine toilet

The page for "Marine Toilet" redirects to a page with nothing about the operation of a manual pump toilet as found on small and medium-sized watercraft. The excellent article "Toilet" covers just about all other types, but not that one. Please provide something about how these devices work. I think it would be pretty interesting. IrlSmith (talk) 14:12, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, IrlSmith. A request like yours translates to "Would one of the busy volunteers work on this idea of mine please?" It is possible that somebody will see it and be moved to do so, but not very likely.

Three possibilities suggest themselves. One is to post on one of the talk pages, either Talk:Toilet or Talk:Head (watercraft) - they will at least probably be seen by people with some interest. Another is to post at WT:WikiProject Ships, for the same reason. A third possibility is to try to write it yourself. Since it would probably be an extension to one of those articles, rather than a stand-alone article, this is not quite so challenging as creating an article from scratch; but you would still need to base whatever you wrote on reliable published sources, rather than on your own knowledge. ColinFine (talk) 15:21, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

actually, the third alinea of the Design section mentions the (hand operated) pump and valve system. In my experience with the vacuum type toilet, it is usually a membrane pump with a rubber flap valve on one side and a trileaflet valve on the other side, but different ones probably exist. Rmvandijk (talk) 14:11, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Coincidence of Ash Wednesday and Valentine's Day

Today is both Ash Wednesday and Valentine's Day. This coincidence last occurred in 2018 and will next occur in 2029. Those two years (2018 and 2029) along with the current year 2024 are the only three coincidences in the 21st century.

In the following nine centuries of the third millennium, this coincidence will occur in the following years:

22nd century: 2170, 2176, 2181
23rd century: 2238, 2244, 2249
24th century: 2306, 2312, 2317, 2396
25th century: 2401, 2480, 2485
26th century: 2548, 2553
27th century: 2610, 2616, 2621, 2700
28th century: 2762, 2768, 2773
29th century: 2852, 2857, 2863
30th century: 2920, 2925

In general, for this coincidence to occur, Easter must be on April 1 in a common year (possibly a century year, as it will be the case in 2700, for example) or March 31 in a leap year.

As one could see, this coincidence could occur two, three, or four times in a single century. Is it also possible for this coincidence to occur just once or five or more times in a single century (assuming 01 to 00 as usual)?

GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 16:27, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If the calendar is never modified, ~~seven coincidences are even possible~~: not true; see below

129th century: 12801, 12812, 12863, 12874, 12880, 12885, 12896
2109th century: 210801, 210812, 210863, 210874, 210880, 210885, 210896
2945th century: 294401, 294412, 294463, 294474, 294480, 294485, 294496
4385th century: 438401, 438412, 438463, 438474, 438480, 438485, 438496
5221st century: 522001, 522012, 522063, 522074, 522080, 522085, 522096
6365th century: 636401, 636412, 636463, 636474, 636480, 636485, 636496
7201st century: 720001, 720012, 720063, 720074, 720080, 720085, 720096
8641st century: 864001, 864012, 864063, 864074, 864080, 864085, 864096
9477th century: 947601, 947612, 947663, 947674, 947680, 947685, 947696

--Lambiam 18:36, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The year wrongifies by 13 days every ~43,200 years, if they don't fix by then then G*d damn. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 00:57, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

9 days every 29,000 years is a better approximation of the deviation of the mean Gregorian year with the current mean tropical year. However, the latter is not constant. 43,200 years into the future the deviation will be closer to 1 day every 1800 years. --Lambiam 13:57, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Unless man ends leap seconds forever. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 18:12, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Alternatively, we can develop the technology to speed up the rotation of the Earth by about 0.000085% to match the length of the tropical year to the calendar year. The speeding up can be spread over many centuries. Or we can move the Earth to a slightly higher orbit, increasing the major axis by about 85 km. Or use a combination of the two. --Lambiam 14:11, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The percent and kilometers increases over time because days per year declines as friction mostly tidal slows the rotation. I learned the length of the year and Gregorian error from books as the 1900.0 sum 365.242199 and 26 seconds short they copied Newcomb's Tables of the Sun or something long after 1900.0 was replaced by 1950.0 or 2000.0 it's now 365.24218-something. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 15:02, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Lambiam: The years ending in 12 or 96 in your list do not actually work, as they are leap years with Easter on April 1 (like 2040, 2108, 2192, etc.), so Ash Wednesday would be on February 15 (not February 14), and the centuries in your list would actually only have five coincidences of Ash Wednesday with Valentine's Day. But in fact, there are already examples of such centuries in the fifth and sixth millennia. Namely, the first century to have five such coincidences will be the 46th century, with coincidences in 4503, 4514, 4576, 4587, and 4598; while after that, another five coincidences will occur in the 58th century, in 5703, 5714, 5725, 5787, and 5798. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 01:28, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There was a bug in my program. After fixing it, the maximum number of coincidences in any century reported is 5. The first three are:

46th century: 4503, 4514, 4576, 4587, 4598
~~52th century: 5100, 5106, 5168, 5179, 5190~~
58th century: 5703, 5714, 5725, 5787, 5798
110th century: 10903, 10914, 10976, 10987, 10998

--Lambiam 21:29, 18 February 2024 (UTC) [edited 16:59, 19 February 2024 (UTC)][reply]

The above answers the case where there are at least five coincidences within a single century. However, the "just once" case has not been answered yet. Is there also a century that has just one Ash Wednesday/Valentine's Day coincidence, or no such coincidences at all? GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 03:48, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My program (now hopefully bug-free) does not find any outside the range of 2 to 5. --Lambiam 10:45, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think the pattern repeats every 57000 centuries. Easter in year 5700000 +

Y

is on the same day as Easter in the year

Y

, so Easter 5702024 is again on March 31st. --Lambiam 19:24, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

February 15

What do experts say about Guns, Germs, and Steels' "war speeds tech level rise" idea?

I could cherrypick and say look at maglevs, war is bad for tech. Or look at NASA budget and time to next aircraft carrier class, war is good for tech. Or look at Moore's Law, war has little effect either way. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 00:52, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not an expert, but this is kind of a common-sense thing. Turning potentially useful results of basic science into mature technology that can serve a larger market is in many cases a costly complicated process marked by failed attempts and other setbacks. Progress is slow, mainly coming from university labs and small startups not capable of siphoning lots of money to the efforts. Private companies capable of navigating the trajectory successfully, financing it from their own coffers, are rare. More importantly, their shareholders may be less than happy with the company undertaking such ventures. This situation changes dramatically if the cost is largely borne by public funds, which is normally a no-no but becomes normal in war times. --Lambiam 13:18, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The effect of war on the average tech level of society is a net sum of various speeding and delaying effects that's a bit less obvious. Sure much was invented sooner i.e. iron warships, microwave ovens and practical jets but WW2 really fucked NY's transportation system for one. I have details if you want. Do we not have fusion yet cause we had one world war too many or one or two too few? I don't know. I bet we'd have more cool space and upper atmosphere tech with a Hot Cold War that stayed non-nuclear through great luck though. Horrible but true. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 19:17, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

February 16

banned user

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Notes and queries

I received a Scottish banknote in change this afternoon. I thought at first it was a new King Charles one as the motif is similar to those on the new coins. When are these (and the new Bank of England notes) going to be put into circulation? 2A02:C7B:121:5300:C504:8E46:1D4D:6584 (talk) 18:55, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

According to the Bank of England mid-2024. Mikenorton (talk) 19:05, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

February 18

Calendar forum

Is there any Internet forum that discusses calendar (primarily real-world), timekeeping and dates of events like Easter etc.? --40bus (talk) 19:48, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have any particularly burning questions? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 23:08, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I was once on a calendar mailing list, which probably died with Yahoogroups. It discussed calendars on Mars, among other things. Thomas Gangale was active on that list and might be able to answer your question. —Tamfang (talk) 00:32, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

February 21

banned user

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Three bob

The Sun on Sunday of 4 February reports that a charity worker found an "1813 silver 15 pence from New South Wales" in a donation. This is expected to sell for around seven thousand pounds as "Few examples have survived as most were melted down in the 1840s." I assume there was a mint in Sydney (there was one in Perth - don't know if it's still functioning) and if they did strike three shilling coins, why did they do it only to melt them down shortly after? 2A00:23D0:CC2:801:417D:F1D9:7A87:BF7D (talk) 10:17, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"After gold was discovered in Australia, the Royal Mint opened branches in Australia. The Sydney Mint opened in 1854 and issued half sovereigns and sovereigns, with the Melbourne Mint beginning production in 1872." See History of Australian currency. So I doubt they we minted in Australia. (EDIT) The Perth Mint opened in 1899. 41.23.55.195 (talk) 10:41, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In fact they were not minted in the normal sense. They were "drops" punched out of Spanish silver dollars. They were demonetized in 1829 and I would guess that their relative purity (.903) lead to their melting. https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces17316.html 41.23.55.195 (talk) 10:57, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I thought this was just reporting by a journalist too young to remember pre-decimal currency. They're talking about fifteen old pennies, but that sum of money was never described as anything other than "one shilling and threepence" - or so I thought. Looking at the link, the narrative is indeed "one shilling and threepence", but the coin actually says "FIFTEEN PENCE", no doubt because it's easier to punch "FIFTEEN PENCE" than it is to punch "ONE SHILLING AND THREEPENCE." 95.144.174.15 (talk) 13:47, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

FYI, more commonly "one and three", the shillings and pence being understood. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 14:30, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, but but on a coin you must necessarily be precise - you wouldn't want to tender one of these and have the shopkeeper tell you it's only worth one and three farthings (1 3/4d) ! 2A00:23C7:2B14:A201:A8E3:4FF1:EAA2:29F9 (talk) 14:43, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

February 22

Detail

Hello. The link below shows a summary of a knockout match of the old Champions Cup 1982-83, between Olympiakos and Hamburg, result 4-0 for the Germans then winners of the competition. The images are not of good quality, the scoreboard then never being framed. But is it possible that the team names and scorers were written on the scoreboard in English, and not in Greek, as this competition (like others of this calibre) was international? Thank you very much. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U01gAnZ3KMg&t=52s 2.32.203.113 (talk) 15:46, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The venue of Olympiacos F.C. is Georgios Karaiskakis Stadium (rebuilt in 2004), Piraeus. The videoed game in 1982 followed a crowding tragedy with 21 victims in 1981. I have not found an image of the old stadium scoreboard of 1982 but would expect that the game was relayed via the Eurovision (network) to other countries e.g. Germany where names and scores could be superimposed by a local broadcaster. Philvoids (talk) 21:58, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to me that the question is about the physical scoreboard in the stadium; what did people see who were present in the stadium? --Lambiam 22:31, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It was a match of the old Champions Cup (today's European Champions League) played at the Olympic Stadium in Athens. Yes, the question is about the scoreboard: I think that since it was an international match, the names of the teams and the scorers were transcribed on the scoreboard in English language.

There may have been enough room for displaying the name in both the Greek and the Latin alphabet:

HAMBURG OLYMPIAKOS

1 : 0

ΑΜΒΟΥΡΓΟ ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΟΣ

--Lambiam --Lambiam 12:57, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think the OPs wording "team names and scorers asks to see the names both of the teams and of individual scoring players. Updating a display of so much information, probably also showing match time, referee calls and timeouts is the work of a dedicated commentator and would be limited by the display technology of 40 years ago, probably paid for by prominent advertising. Philvoids (talk) 13:41, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This was just the time when such technology became available; see Scoreboard § Technology. --Lambiam 23:19, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

February 23

Do you know what the former company “Oswego” is?

Hello. There is a former company named “Oswego” in a small town in Texas (part of the county where Sugar Bend is, Fort Bend). Does anyone who live in its county seat or internationally have some information? Any answers are highly appreciated. 2.103.231.248 (talk) 19:20, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Did you mean Sugar Land? Our article on Richmond, Texas, contains the unsourced cryptic sentence: "It is home to the founders of the former company Oswego, Nick Mide and Trace." Using this as a basis for a further Google search gives many hits, which, however, are all exact or paraphrased repetitions of this one sentence. When the statement was added in June 2022 by an anonymous IP, the formulation was, "it is home of the legendary Oswego owners Nick and mide". This unsourced addition was forthwith reverted, but re-added in the next edit in the form "it is home of the legendary founders of the former company Oswego, Nick Trace and Mide" by another anonymous IP, geolocating to almost the same spot as the first one. Again immediately reverted, the second IP then inserted the claim in its present form. As far as I could determine this, the repetitions on other web sites date from after this insertion. It does not smell good. --Lambiam 22:27, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Try look up the both IP’s location in this and check their edit history. That might help. (please don’t look up my IP, only look up the 2 IPs that made that claim). When you finish looking up both of them, let me know. 2.103.231.248 (talk) 10:38, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Any answers? 2.103.231.248 (talk) 13:04, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Give us time, IP. We're all volunteers here, and actually there is no 'here' – we all do this in moments snatched from our Real Lives. Check back in a day or two. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 176.24.45.226 (talk) 13:20, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK I will. I will check bay in a day or two to see if someone had looked up both of the IPs that made that (what I claim fictional) “former” company Oswego. Also that I claim fictional is the founders’ names, which are “Nick Trace and Mide” These 2 IPs made it according to the reply made by Lambian. Maybe try contacting Snopes. after you looked up those IP locations (link in earlier reply, also please do not look up my IP!) and looked up their edit history. 2.103.231.248 (talk) 15:52, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What is it exactly that you're wanting us to do? The IPs in question didn't make any other edits. The minor bit of vandalism that was missed for quite some time has now been reverted. Thank you for bringing attention to it. --Onorem (talk) 17:25, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The IPs geolocate to the USA. Don't you think the House Oversight Committee should open an investigation? They have the power to subpoena Comcast Cable to produce more information. No one is above the law; with a dogged determination and some luck the malfeasants can be brought to justice so that they will not escape their deserved punishment. --Lambiam 17:46, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You checked their edit history. You checked their geolocation. I found their geolocation is Houston and Rosenberg. Before you contact Snopes, block those 2 IPs and choose your reason. Now try contacting Snopes if the claim is real or not. 2.103.231.248 (talk) 19:05, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The edits are 2 years old. Blocking now would be as pointless as this conversation is. There is also no need to 'contact Snopes.' If someone tries to add it again in the future, they'll either have a reliable source or they won't. If they don't, hopefully it will be caught and deleted more quickly this time. --Onorem (talk) 19:25, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Did they notice it on the administrators noticeboard? Or any other source from Wikipedia, such as the help desk, Teahouse and so on? 2.103.231.248 (talk) 19:58, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is no ongoing problem. Why are you so determined that we should waste time pursuing what appears to be a 2-year old minor prank? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 176.24.45.226 (talk) 21:44, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

February 24

Khattan

Hello geographers: can anyone help settle what province Khattan is in, and maybe help improve the article? Please see the recent history for the dispute. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 14:32, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Google maps places it firmly in the Punjab province of Pakistan, almost on the border with India, hundreds of miles distant from Balochistan. OpenStreetMap concurs, --Lambiam 17:34, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lambiam, can you please look at what SheriffIsInTown wrote on User talk:Prof.Nasir Jamal, and comment? Thanks, Drmies (talk) 21:19, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Google Maps remained incomplete, with the feature to add places being discontinued. Notably, there exists a Khattan in Kachhi District of Balochistan province as well. You can refer to the census data for Kachhi District here. Additionally, I am currently in the process of crafting an article for Khattan in Punjab. This endeavor will require thorough research to ensure the article's completeness, as I am committed to avoiding incomplete articles. I am also available to enhance the existing Khattan article. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 21:35, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So there are several populated places named Khattan in Pakistan. The Punjabi one is listed in the census data for Bahawalnagar District here. There appears to also be a village Khattan, Chhatroo tehsil, Kishtwar District, Jammu division. Quite possibly there are even more places that go by that name. Rather than edit-warring about which is the true Khattan, we can have separate articles on these places and a disambiguation page. --Lambiam 04:31, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That is the solution, we are opting for. The editor engaged in edit warring believed that their Khattan was the only one, and thus, the article contained incorrect information. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 05:14, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

February 25

Raising Awareness of a Franchise Brand

Hello, I was wondering if there was anything I could do in my power to make people in my area more aware of the existence of a particular franchise? I have seen this franchise in a US tv show, and I am obsessed with it. It would be a dream come true for this franchise to open a store or stores near me, as I have always wanted to visit it, but the distance is too great.

My main idea at this point is to find some way of making influential people aware of this business. I want to communicate it to them so that they will consider it when thinking about becoming a franchise owner or increasing their existing portfolio. I was wondering if there was a place on the web where this kind of person can be found. That way, I could begin to try to get them interested in the franchise. Obviously, they would make the final decision about what they want to invest in, but I would at least like them to know that this business is a possible option.

So, if any of you have any leads for this kind of thing, then I would greatly appreciate that, and my mission to bring this franchise to Glasgow could then be completed.

NOTE: I am not asking for the ability to control and manipulate people, I am only asking for ways to present my ideas to them. They will always have the freedom to choose if they are interested in them or not.Pablothepenguin (talk) 14:55, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You should contact this franchise and inquire whether they have any plans to become present in your city. You could encourage people to contact the franchise and enter into business with them, by lobbying or whatever. Who do You mean by 'influential people'? --Ouro (blah blah) 15:56, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wealthy people with enough money to open franchises as well as people who already have experience with this. I am not rich enough to open a franchise myself. The main difficulty is finding these people. Pablothepenguin (talk) 16:25, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Look who's got larger companies, better houses, better cars in the neighbourhood? Who runs for local offices? Who LOOKS like they're wealthy? Ask around? Maybe someone's refurbishing old factory buildings and turning them into upscale lofts in your area? That kind of thing. I guess. --Ouro (blah blah) 20:30, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I was hoping there was a way to find people like this on the internet. I’m not very good at face to face conversations. Pablothepenguin (talk) 20:34, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As I asked before, where on the internet do I find the right sort of people for my purposes? There has got be some places online where owners of existing franchises in my country can be found.

This whole darn thing makes little sense to me in any case. It should not be this hard to find franchise owners and potential franchise owners. I’m getting very annoyed now that I can’t figure this out. Pablothepenguin (talk) 20:51, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No reason to get annoyed. I cannot think of an approach that can plausibly help you to reach your goal. BTW, have you researched the franchisor? Do they have any locations in your country? Do you have a basis for the supposition that operating a franchise near where you are located is a commercially interesting proposition? --Lambiam 21:13, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Don’t be that way. There must be a way somewhere. Of course opening a franchise would work. We don’t have anything like this franchise in my area. There is a huge gap in the market for it. Lots of people would love it, and it would get the high levels of popularity it gets in the US here. I did my research just fine.

Please could someone enlighten me who knows what they are talking about? Pablothepenguin (talk) 21:50, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

One need not be influential to become a franchisee. Most business or franchise owners are not wealthy or influential people, or if they are, they did not start out that way. One just needs the wherewithal to operate a business, the ability to draw up a well-researched business plan showing a good likelihood of success and the skill to negotiate with the franchisor and a bank. Given a good business plan and a cooperating franchisor, there will be banks providing a loan under reasonable conditions. So you need to find people with an entrepreneurial spirit looking for an opportunity. Wealthy people have already found their opportunities. Some articles on becoming a franchise owner: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5]. --Lambiam 11:10, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Some important caveats to your input:

1. I live in Scotland. I doubt this really matters but it should borne in mind.

2. Links 2 & 3 don't work.

3. My main obstacle is finding hang out spots on the web for such people. I seek the sort of place where stuff I post can be read by millions. Pablothepenguin (talk) 12:18, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I realized you live in Scotland and checked for specific legal issues before responding, but according to our article there are no franchise-specific laws in the United Kingdom. All these links work for me; in any case, you already get a reasonably thorough overview from the other three. If by "such people" you mean wealthy influential people, I suspect that that is not the best angle. Does the chain have a subreddit, such as, for example, Popeyes Louisiana Kitchen? You might see if there are fellow townspeople who share your obsession and are willing to work on a plan to raise awareness. --Lambiam 19:55, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

First of all, I can confirm that links 3 and 4 are returning 403 Forbidden errors. Are they geographically restricted perhaps? I don’t have a VPN to check, so I don’t know.

Anyway, I was wondering if there were any obvious online places where small business owners and similar folks can be found? That would help a lot. Pablothepenguin (talk) 20:27, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What is with the long pauses in activity on this desk? There hasn’t been a single word in over 15 hours. People need to wake up if progress is to be made. Pablothepenguin (talk) 23:06, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

February 26

Presidential legitimacy and diplomatic relations

In 2020, US and EU announced they don't consider Lukashenko as the legitimate Belarusian president (while Josep Borrell added that the 2020 elections are fraudulent). Logically, this would entail severing/suspension of diplomatic relations with Belarus, because, if I understand correctly, you can't maintain relations with country whose leader is considered illegitimate (and by continuing relations the legitimacy is logically reaffirmed rather than denied). Why relations aren't generally severed/suspended with such countries on that basis? Brandmeister^talk 19:11, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Realpolitik? --Lambiam 21:03, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This opinion piece from Chatham House has some discussion of such issues [6]. It suggests the policy has been fractured and gives reason for this but I'd note it also suggests some countries have in some way limited diplomatic contact because of the issue, whether it's ambassadors leaving because they did not wish to present their credentials to Lukashenko (France), ambassadors for some countries and the EU being asked to leave, and ambassadors being rejected (US). I'm not really sure what the US ambassador planned to do i.e. whether they were going to present their credentials or refuse to. Our Foreign relations of Belarus and Belarus–European Union relations articles seem somewhat limited on recent events but Belarus–United States relations is a little better although still lacks info on the supposed ambassador being rejected. Nil Einne (talk) 05:37, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Boxing stance

My question is about the change in stance by boxers from the "knuckles forward, torso back" approach to the "knuckles out, torso forward" more popular today. Our article at Boxing#Marquess_of_Queensberry_rules_(1867) provides a suggested explanation, albeit without a supporting reference. They suggest it was due to the addition of large boxing gloves (as opposed to bare knuckles): "Because less defensive emphasis was placed on the use of the forearms and more on the gloves, the classical forearms outwards, torso leaning back stance of the bare knuckle boxer was modified to a more modern stance in which the torso is tilted forward and the hands are held closer to the face." Okay, I guess, but I'm not sure I buy it. I don't know of any other martial art where the combatants take that odd knuckles forward stance. Even in cases where the hands are kept further from the head, the knuckles are typically facing out (i.e. to the sides so that the pinkie finger side of your hands are facing the opponent). Even if the addition of gloves is what caused the change ^{[citation needed]} what was the purpose of the knuckles forward affair? Matt Deres (talk) 19:29, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

February 27

Reliable sources on Wikipedia: Writings by professional geographers?

Would writings by professional geographers, including from the early 20th century, be considered reliable sources for Wikipedia purposes? 172.56.187.204 (talk) 03:42, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's not so much about the credentials of the writers themselves, it's about where their writings are published. An article by a professional geographer on a self-published blog would not be a reliable source. The same article by the same writer published in a journal or book would be a reliable source. --Viennese Waltz 06:07, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What about if one of their books is cited, with this book itself having an extensive bibliography at the end of it? 172.56.187.204 (talk) 07:24, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A self-published article by a subject matter expert can be used as a source, with caution. Graham87 (talk) 10:27, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Something like that would be fine, if an independent second source could be found that says exactly the same thing. This is called backing up the first source. Pablothepenguin (talk) 12:40, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Geography is a huge topic, covering many subfields, some of which have advanced tremendously since the early 20th century. Without stating what the geographer is being cited for, it isn't possible to make any sensible comment on reliability. AndyTheGrump (talk) 13:20, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We have a page dedicated to such questions: Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard. As is stated there:

Context is important: supply the source, the article it is used in, and the claim it supports.

If the expert is notable, you can turn the point into an unassailable factual statement by presenting it not as a fact but as an opinion, using a formulation such as,

However, Cathy Whitlock has argued that the reported radiocarbon ages from terrestrial pollen concentrates in Yellowstone Lake are much too old.^[123]

--Lambiam 08:02, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

February 28

@@ Line 184: / Line 184: @@
 :::::::::::First of all, I can confirm that links 3 and 4 are returning 403 Forbidden errors. Are they geographically restricted perhaps? I don’t have a VPN to check, so I don’t know.
 :::::::::::Anyway, I was wondering if there were any obvious online places where small business owners and similar folks can be found? That would help a lot. [[User:Pablothepenguin|Pablothepenguin]] ([[User talk:Pablothepenguin|talk]]) 20:27, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
+::::::::::::What is with the long pauses in activity on this desk? There hasn’t been a single word in over 15 hours. People need to wake up if progress is to be made. [[User:Pablothepenguin|Pablothepenguin]] ([[User talk:Pablothepenguin|talk]]) 23:06, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
 = February 26 =