Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Featured log/July 2009

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Matthewedwards 04:57, 8 July 2009 [1].

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List of United States Military Academy alumni (academics)

Nominator(s): — Rlevse • Talk • 22:13, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured list because it's next in my series of USMA alumni lists. — Rlevse • Talk • 22:13, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 19:49, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

;Comments from The Rambling Man (talk · contribs) "at the United States Military Academy 2002-06-07" ISO format dates not usually encouraged in prose. Fixed. — Rlevse • Talk • 11:01, 25 June 2009 (UTC) Eisenhower needs endashes in all his date ranges. Wouldn't Dabombs bot have fixed that? I'll ask him. — Rlevse • Talk • 11:01, 25 June 2009 (UTC) Almost certainly - I wasn't aware you'd be using it. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:38, 25 June 2009 (UTC) That's strange. I could have sworn it said nothing to be fixed. I see Rambo's Revenge (talk · contribs) fixed it. Dabomb87 (talk) 13:45, 25 June 2009 (UTC) "General of the Army; World War II;" why the semicolon between his rank and the war? why not a comma? Because it's a rank and this makes it consistent with the other entries. — Rlevse • Talk • 11:01, 25 June 2009 (UTC) Refs 25 and 26 have pp where p is needed (I would guess at pages= is being used in the template insted of page=) Fixed. — Rlevse • Talk • 11:01, 25 June 2009 (UTC) The Rambling Man (talk) 10:03, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

• Support. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:49, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Truco

Comments from Truco (talk · contribs) General Dabs, external links check out fine. Lead 'A few graduates each year are given the option of entering the United States Air Force, United States Navy, or United States Marine Corps.' -- Wouldn't it be A select few graduates..? No, that implies a select process but it's mostly a matter of personal choice. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:08, 26 June 2009 (UTC) 'Before the founding of the United States Air Force Academy in 1955, the Academy was a major source of officers for the Air Force and its predecessors.' -- Is 'The Academy' an official title for the USMA, why not use USMA instead? Consistency throughout not only this list but the whole series of lists. There are several nicks for them and it's best to stay with one instead of flip flopping. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:08, 26 June 2009 (UTC) 'Other notable graduates include 2 Presidents of the United States, 18 astronauts, 4 additional heads of state, 74 Medal of Honor recipients,[6] 70 Rhodes Scholars, and 3 Heisman Trophy winners..' -- 1)What do you mean by 'additional heads of state'? The 'additional' is throwing me off. 2)Remove the extra period. Fixed both. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:08, 26 June 2009 (UTC) 'Among American universities, the academy is fourth on the list of total winners for Rhodes Scholarships, seventh for Marshall Scholarships and fourth for Hertz Fellowships.' -- Inconsistency, is it the academy? or the Academy (capitalized or not)? UC'd it to match all the others as it's a specific one. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:08, 26 June 2009 (UTC) References If you are going to link one publisher, you either need to link all that can be linked or just remove the link. if you meant USDeptEdu, I unlinked it. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:08, 26 June 2009 (UTC) --Truco 503 00:46, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

• Support -- Previous issues resolved/clarified; list meets WP:WIAFL.--Truco ₅₀₃ 01:42, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 20:18, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs) "British Royal Society" redirects to Royal Society, and I've never seen any instance where the "British" is included. Then how do we know if it's British, Thai, Danish, etc? — Rlevse • Talk • 01:19, 30 June 2009 (UTC) It's usually known as the Royal Society of London. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:34, 30 June 2009 (UTC) That's not the article title. I'll just make it match the article title. — Rlevse • Talk • 03:01, 30 June 2009 (UTC) "founded of University of the South" Something's wrong. Either "founder of University of the South" or "founded University of the South" Fixed — Rlevse • Talk • 01:19, 30 June 2009 (UTC) "longest serving superintendent"-->longest-serving superintendent Fixed — Rlevse • Talk • 01:19, 30 June 2009 (UTC) "son Frederick August Mahan graduated from West Point in 1867" Readers might not make the connection that "West Point" is the same as USMA. Fixed — Rlevse • Talk • 01:19, 30 June 2009 (UTC) "professor or mathematics" Typo? Fixed — Rlevse • Talk • 01:19, 30 June 2009 (UTC) "author of Manual of Instruction for the Volunteers and Militia of the United States which was in use for over 145 years" Comma after "United States". Fixed — Rlevse • Talk • 01:19, 30 June 2009 (UTC) "and died of complications eight days" What type of complications? I assume medical. Fixed — Rlevse • Talk • 01:19, 30 June 2009 (UTC) I see inconsistency in ordinals; "1st Military Governor" but "fifteenth chancellor of the University of Pittsburgh". Words or numbers? changed to 15th. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:19, 30 June 2009 (UTC) "political science professor at University of Chicago (1982–present)" Comma after here. Fixed — Rlevse • Talk • 01:19, 30 June 2009 (UTC) Dabomb87 (talk) 01:08, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 20:18, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

• Is ref 37 a magazine, newspaper or journal? If so, it should be italicized.

An online mag. To me that's a web ref, not a journal ref. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:19, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

I asked SandyGeorgia (talk · contribs) about this. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:34, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

She hasn't replied. This is hardly a major issue, so I don't mind letting it go. Also, I've seen other webzine Wikipedia articles that don't italicize, so I'll go with that. Dabomb87 (talk) 20:18, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Matthewedwards 04:57, 8 July 2009 [2].

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List of Turner Prize winners and nominees

Nominator(s): The Rambling Man (talk) 06:56, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Renominating. Despite having considerable support last time round, User:Tyrenius raised a number of concerns which caused me to withdraw the nomination and work the list up a bit. Hopefully I've addressed most, if not all of his concerns, and in doing so have created an even better list than the one I first nominated. Comments, concerns, questions will, as ever, be handled as quickly as possible. Thanks in advance for your time. The Rambling Man (talk) 06:56, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

I made a few changes rather than quibble about minor things here; feel free to revert if I've accidentally reintroduced misphrasings that were picked up last time round. Looks good to me, so unless someone comes up with something I've not spotted, I'll support. Bencherlite^Talk 19:52, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. As far as I can tell, you've done nothing more than polish the existing markup (and inevitably claim that dark blue is the colour...) As ever, charmed, enchanted and grateful. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:24, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

• Support - looks good —Chris! _ct 23:04, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

• Support I made a couple minor tweaks [3], and the bulk of my concerns were addressed last time around. Nice job. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:43, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

• Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:43, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

• CommentSupport -- Looks good, I did a few minor tweaks but other than that the list meets WP:WIAFL. However, one thing: in this sentence 'Winners' reactions to the award range from Hirst's "A media circus to raise money for the Tate and Channel 4" to Deller's "It blew me away, people's hunger to see what I'd done".' -- It could use a link and full spelling of these winners.--Truco ₅₀₃ 00:40, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
  • All "first time links" are linked, including Tate Britain which wasn't linked anywhere in the prose (I think....!) The Rambling Man (talk) 18:16, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
• Support as I did before...Modernist (talk) 01:15, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Matthewedwards 04:57, 8 July 2009 [4].

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List of CMLL World Light Heavyweight Champions

Nominator(s): MPJ-DK (talk) 09:58, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

I am submitting this for Featured List consideration as I feel like it's got the quality for it, I've worked in comments from previous FLCs. I know that right now the state of the CMLL World Light Heavyweight Championship article doesn't initially warrant that the list is split off, but I am planning on expanding it pretty soo. As always I'm open to anything, major or minor. MPJ-DK (talk) 09:58, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Truco

Weak Oppose/Review by Truco (talk · contribs) General Dabs, external links check out fine. Lead 'The CMLL World Light Heavyweight Championship (Campeonato Mundial Semi Completo de CMLL in Spanish) is a professional wrestling championship promoted by Consejo Mundial de Lucha Libre (CMLL) since 1991.' -- Based on the List of CMLL World Heavyweight Champions list, it should be is a singles professional wrestling championship with a link to championship (professional wrestling) Fixed. MPJ-DK (talk) 13:13, 25 June 2009 (UTC) 'Being a professional wrestling championship it is not won legitimately; ' -- Comma after 'championship' Fixed. MPJ-DK (talk) 13:13, 25 June 2009 (UTC) 'Being a professional wrestling championship it is not won legitimately; it is instead won via a scripted ending to a match or awarded to a wrestler because of a storyline.' -- Link to storyline Fixed. MPJ-DK (talk) 13:13, 25 June 2009 (UTC) 'The official definition of the Light Heavyweight weight class in Mexico is between 92 kg (200 lb) and 97 kg (210 lb), but the weight limits are not always strictly adhered to.' --> The official weight limit of the Light Heavyweight weight class in Mexico is between 92 kg (200 lb) and 97 kg (210 lb), but are not always strictly enforced. Fixed. MPJ-DK (talk) 13:13, 25 June 2009 (UTC) 'Because Lucha Libre puts more emphasis on the lower weightclasses, this divison is considered more important than the normally more prestigious heavyweight division of the promotion.' --> Because Lucha Libre emphasizes the lower weight classes, this division is considered more important than the normally more prestigious heavyweight division of a promotion. Fixed. MPJ-DK (talk) 13:13, 25 June 2009 (UTC) The second paragraph should start with saying who the first champion was, not the current. Fixed. MPJ-DK (talk) 13:13, 25 June 2009 (UTC) 'Ephesto is the current champion, having held the title since May 26, 2009, this is Ephesto's first reign as Light Heavyweight Champion and he is the 11th overall champion.' -- This sentence needs to be reincorporated somewhere else in the second paragraph like in the list I mentioned above, it also needs a bit of rewording like it is in that list. Fixed. MPJ-DK (talk) 13:13, 25 June 2009 (UTC) 'As of June 26, 2009, Dr. Wagner, Jr. and Atlantis are the only two wrestlers to hold the title twice, Dr. Wagner, Jr. is listed as an unofficial three time champion in some places due to a title change that took place in 1996 in Japan, but the match was not sanctioned by CMLL and is therefor not officially recognized.' --> As of June 26, 2009, Dr. Wagner, Jr. and Atlantis are the only two wrestlers to hold the title twice; Dr. Wagner, Jr. is listed as an unofficial three-time champion, however, it is not recognized by CMLL. Fixed. MPJ-DK (talk) 13:13, 25 June 2009 (UTC) 'The first CMLL World Light Heavyweight Champion was Jerry Estrada who defeated Pierroth, Jr. in the finals of an 16-man tournament that took place between September 15 and September 26, 1991.' -- This should be the opening sentence, but reworded as The first champion to be recognized by CMLL was Jerry Estrada, who defeated Pierroth, Jr. in the finals of an 16-man tournament that took place between September 15 and September 26, 1991. Fixed. MPJ-DK (talk) 13:13, 25 June 2009 (UTC) 'Ephesto is currently the wrestler with the shortest reign, with &0000000000000030.00000030 and counting, the second shortest official reign is Jerry Estrada with 175 days, while Ultimo Guerrero has held it the for the longest period, at 1,309 days.' --> Current champion Ephesto's reign is currently the shortest reign, at 30 days, while Ultimo Guerrero's [state what reign this was] has held for the longest period, at 1,309 days. Fixed. MPJ-DK (talk) 13:13, 25 June 2009 (UTC) Mention that Aquarius' reign that is not recognized by CMLL is actually the shortest. Fixed. MPJ-DK (talk) 13:13, 25 June 2009 (UTC) Table Remove the period from the Aquarius reign. Fixed. MPJ-DK (talk) 13:13, 25 June 2009 (UTC) 'CMLL does not consider Dr. Wagner, Jr. a three time champion as they do not recognize Aquarius' title win.' --> CMLL does not recognize Dr. Wagner, Jr. as a three-time champion as they do not recognize Aquarius' title win. Fixed. MPJ-DK (talk) 13:13, 25 June 2009 (UTC) Footnotes 'The most obvious case of this is Mephisto, who currently holds the CMLL World Welterweight Championship, a belt with a 78 kg (170 lb) upper limit despite weighing 90 kg (200 lb).' --> The most recent case of this is Mephisto currently holding the CMLL World Welterweight Championship, a belt with a 78 kg (170 lb) limit despite weighing 90 kg (200 lb). Fixed. MPJ-DK (talk) 13:13, 25 June 2009 (UTC) 'In the age before the Internet, "unofficial" title changes occured from time to time especially if the regions were far apart, but if they were not officially mentioned by the promotion they are not considered part of the official title history.' --> Reword, confusing better?. MPJ-DK (talk) 13:13, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

• Support -- Previous issues resolved/clarified to satisfy WP:WIAFL.--Truco ₅₀₃ 16:08, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 20:16, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs) "but are not always strictly enforced" "are"-->is (only one definition) Fixed. MPJ-DK (talk) 10:57, 29 June 2009 (UTC) "The current champion is Ephesto, who is the 11th overall champion" Fixed MPJ-DK (talk) 10:57, 29 June 2009 (UTC) "two wrestlers to hold the title twice"-->two wrestlers to have held the title twice Fixed MPJ-DK (talk) 10:57, 29 June 2009 (UTC) "Dr. Wagner, Jr. is listed as an unofficial three-time champion, however, it is not recognized by CMLL"-->Dr. Wagner, Jr. is listed as an unofficial three-time champion, but he is not recognized as such by CMLL Fixed. MPJ-DK (talk) 10:57, 29 June 2009 (UTC) "Current champion Ephesto's reign is currently the shortest reign" You already said that Ephesto is the current champion, and "currently" is redundant. You are correct, since he's a reigning champion I'll have to watch on the length of his reign if it surpasses the second longest. MPJ-DK (talk) 10:57, 29 June 2009 (UTC) Em dashes (—) in the blank cells please. This is not within the standard of the professional wrestling championship lists, not even the most recent Featured Lists, I do not see what the dash accomplishes than the current empty note cell doesn't. MPJ-DK (talk) 10:57, 29 June 2009 (UTC) Most non-wrestling FLs use em dashes. I think they look better, and they let the reader know the cells are supposed to be empty, not that the list is incomplete. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:21, 2 July 2009 (UTC) Note 2: "Internet" should be capitalized, and remove "ever". Dabomb87 (talk) 15:27, 28 June 2009 (UTC) The ones I saw with em dashes still did not use them in the notes section, it was used in sports under various stats to indicate that there were none but the notes were still empty. I'm not trying to intentionally be contrary here but it goes against the standard of pro wrestling lists and I have myself been trying to tell people who edit wrestling that there need to be a reason other than "One person says so" to change the general way to do things. Let's be fair here, it's the notes section people will realize that if there is no notes then nothing unusual happened. MPJ-DK (talk) 05:30, 2 July 2009 (UTC) It's not a major issue, so I won't pursue. Dabomb87 (talk) 20:16, 3 July 2009 (UTC) Fixed. MPJ-DK (talk) 10:57, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:27, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

• • Good, I searched high and low to be sure they're reliable. MPJ-DK (talk) 10:57, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Giants2008

Comments – "who defeated Pierroth, Jr. in the finals of an 16-man tournament that took place between September 15 and September 26, 1991." "an" → "a". Fixed. MPJ-DK (talk) 22:49, 1 July 2009 (UTC) Some of the notes in the key and table have periods, while others do not. Any reason for that? No periods in key now, only one in the note where it's a fulls entence In the secondary table, de-capitalize "Of Reigns" and "Days" in the column headings. This is not the first time I've mentioned this problem in wrestling title lists. I've never seen it mentioned but it's definitely a very quick fix, something I'll be sure to check in the future. MPJ-DK (talk) 22:49, 1 July 2009 (UTC) Footnote 2: Remove space before comma. Fixed MPJ-DK (talk) 22:49, 1 July 2009 (UTC) Replace the spaced hyphens in the book page ranges with unspaced em dashes. Giants2008 (17-14) 22:36, 1 July 2009 (UTC) And done, thank you for your input. MPJ-DK (talk) 22:49, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Support – I believe it meets the standards after the resolution of the capped comments. Giants2008 (17-14) 21:19, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Matthewedwards 04:57, 8 July 2009 [5].

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Dream Theater discography

Nominator(s): Cannibaloki (talk), Burningclean (talk), and Blackngold29 (talk) 22:45, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured list because the request of add sources for all the directors (music videos section), and reword the lead section were done. Cannibaloki 22:45, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

* Dabs; please check the disambiguation links identified in the toolbox. Dabomb87 (talk) 13:27, 16 June 2009 (UTC) Checked.--Cannibaloki 17:47, 16 June 2009 (UTC) There are a couple of references that are broken 5, 39 and 17.--Kumioko (talk) 02:30, 18 June 2009 (UTC) Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs) "The threesome"-->The trio Done. "The group signed with Mechanic Records and released its debut album When Dream and Day Unite in 1989." Comma after "Records". Done. "LaBrie's debut album was Images and Words, which remains the band's only gold-certified album by the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA), for sales of more than 500,000 copies."-->LaBrie's debut album was Images and Words, the band's only gold-certified album by the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA), having sold more than 500,000 copies. Done. "the band's lastest studio album Systematic Chaos." "lastest" is not a word. Try "the band's latest studio album, Systematic Chaos." Done. "and DVDs in throughout the world. Done. What references the bootlegs and the fanclub releases? Dabomb87 (talk) 16:57, 19 June 2009 (UTC) The band's official website: www.dreamtheater.net--Cannibaloki 17:11, 19 June 2009 (UTC) Can you make it a general reference or something? Dabomb87 (talk) 13:57, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 19:49, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 16:57, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Kiac (talk)

Comments - Howdy. Instead of Long Island, I would have thought American would suffice in the lead. Reworded to "an American band from the United States." Is this LIVE capitalisation correct? MUSTARD doesn't really allude to it, but I think it is dubious because it is merely a self-adopted style issue and not really necessary in a title. I changed to the standards of Wikipedia; originally just copied the title of the article as it is today. (understand?) Understood. You have an extended denotes releases note at the bottom of the Studio and video album tables, any reason for this? Otherwise, you may wish to make this consistent to remove any chance of confusion. Done. ("—" denotes releases that did not chart or the info was removed by some vandal.) hehe :) Chaos in Motion: 2007–2008 live album it says Roadrunner Records, should be → [[Roadrunner Records|Roadrunner]] "Chaos in Motion" is a double DVD, which was also released in a 5-disc special edition including a live album (total = 2 DVD + 3 CD). Crappy explanation on my part - just meant change Roadrunner Records to just Roadrunner... Perhaps put the Peak chart positions row in above the charts in the Singles table Done. What makes these "Fanclub releases" notable? Just out of curiosity. If they haven't received any significant coverage besides their own website, then I'm not entirely convinced. Nevertheless, I'm not going to deny an FLC over an issue like this. I agree with you, but these "official fan club releases" were not added by me. (see Revision as of 22:43, 25 April 2009) Caps in the Fanclub section: The Making Of Falling Into Infinity → of Once In A LIVEtime Outtakes → in a Cleaning Out The Closet → the Scenes From A World Tour → a Four Degrees Of Radio Edits → of Taste The Memories → the A Walk Beside The Band → the Images And Words → and Sources look fine. That's all I've got. Nice work Cannibaloki. k.i.a.c (talktome - contribs) 13:09, 4 July 2009 (UTC) Well done sir, well done... Cannibaloki 22:08, 4 July 2009 (UTC) Building on the comments below, I have a few helpies. Source for the director. Roadrunner issue was re-phrased above. For release dates, add external links to Allmusic, Discogs and Musicbrainz - whilst adding gen. refs to their website, Rolling Stone and Allmusic discographies. Will happily support following these. k.i.a.c (talktome - contribs) 04:13, 5 July 2009 (UTC) All done.--Cannibaloki 19:11, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Support, all resolved. k.i.a.c (talktome - contribs) 04:37, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Resolved issues from Rambo's Revenge (talk · contribs)

Oppose. I don't usually review discogs because I'm not very good and have no experience. However here are a few comments because the closure log is requesting reviews on this. I have citation concerns. 1993, Live at the Marquee: There are 10 country of release columns and only 6 entries. The last four are missing. So did they not chart (mdash) or have you just not found the chart positions for it in the NLD, NOR, SWI, and the UK yet. Live at Marquee was incorrectly moved from EPs to live albums section, but I fixed it. (understand?) This piping, U.S. chart peak, is misleading. Anyone who didn't hover over the wikilink would probably think that is meant on the main chart (which is the Billboard Hot 100 if I recall correctly). However this is just some more minor chart. I transformed this whole circus into a table "totally excellent!" I want to check that this is not the case for "Japan chart peak", and that it refers to the main Oricon singles chart. Yes, Oricon singles chart. What is the criteria for having seperate tables for "Singles" and "Other charted songs". I'd have thought it would be something to do with a physical release, however this seems to indicate there was a physical release for Pull Me Under. Other charted songs = "radio-promo-only-singles" Surely if there was a CD of Pull Me Under, it wasn't only a radio-promo-only-single. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 15:50, 6 July 2009 (UTC) Product Description: 2 Track Radio Advance Single 1 Pull Me Under (MTV version) 4:49 2 Pull Me Under (edit) 6:01 "2-Track Radio Advance Single" = promo-single (ha! John)--Cannibaloki 22:45, 7 July 2009 (UTC) What makes Zobbel (ref 16) a reliable source, because I didn't find it listed here. All the other sources used were listed there or were from the direct charting company Zobbel use books as sources, see Bibliography of Chartography That RIAA site for certifications doesn't seem to make a distinction between "Images and Words: Live in Tokyo" and "Images and Words: Live in Tokyo/5 Years in a LIVEtime" as you claim in the table. I find only mention of the latter. Fixed. The Billboard ref does not cite "Images and Words" at no. 60, it doesn't even mention it. Images & Words peaked at number 61. (the ref. was added) Ref 39 claims to cite Pierre Lamoureux as director but has no mention of it. These are serious problems and should have [ not in citation given ] tags. There may be others like this as I haven't checked them all. Take a look again, please. Yes you fixed it. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 15:50, 6 July 2009 (UTC) Is anything citing any of the release dates? General ref. for Allmusic I see you recently added this, but it still doesn't always give the Month DD, only the year in some cases e.g.[6][7]. You'll also need something to verify the Month DD bit. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 15:50, 6 July 2009 (UTC) All fixed.--Cannibaloki 22:45, 7 July 2009 (UTC) Consistency issues e.g. Live albums: 2008: Chaos in Motion: 2007–2008 - Label: Roadrunner Records, wheras in Studio albums you just call it Roadrunner "Chaos in Motion" live album? Yes, there used to be one there but you removed it. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 15:50, 6 July 2009 (UTC) Not a live album.--Cannibaloki 22:45, 7 July 2009 (UTC) Rambo's Revenge (talk) 20:07, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Support. The reason I don't really reviewing discogs is because there is little variety and lots of refs to check. But check out they do and I have no further problems here, so I'm happy to lend my support. Well done, Rambo's Revenge (talk) 23:58, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Comments I also know little about reviewing a discography's but below are a couple suggestions.

• I ran the article through AWB and nothing turned up there.
• The lead and table structure looks good.
• I think a little verbage would be useful for each of the sections of the different types of albums. I personally don't know the difference between a studio album and a compilation album is an I hope I am not alone.--Kumioko (talk) 17:18, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
  • Well, there is a link to studio album and compilation album in the first sentence of the lead. Dabomb87 (talk) 17:42, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
    • Yes, that's what wikilinks are for. It is very common terminology in the music industry. k.i.a.c (talktome - contribs) 18:36, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Oppose It still has many issues though. The lead section for example, is much too short.--Matthew Riva (talk) 11:27, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 14:29, 5 July 2009 [8].

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List of Gold Glove Award winners at shortstop

Nominator(s): KV5 (Talk • Phils) 16:38, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

So I've grown tired of "I am nominating this for featured list because...". Same stuff, different day. I hope we all enjoy reading about the defensive exploits of one of the most defensive positions in all of baseball. Cheers. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 16:38, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Just a note: this is your fourth running FLC. Dabomb87 (talk) 16:45, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I know. I didn't know if there was an issue with that. I try to keep on top of them so there are no outstanding issues for an extended period of time. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 17:01, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Your FLCs are usually low-maintenance, and you're an experienced FLC editor, so I'm not worried. Just making sure you knew. Dabomb87 (talk) 17:03, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I don't plan on having more than this open, because the outfielders are coming soon and that one takes FOREVER... KV5 (Talk • Phils) 17:24, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

• Support -- Wow, no errors. Meets WP:WIAFL.--Truco ₅₀₃ 01:31, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 14:41, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs) "Ozzie Smith has won the most Gold Glove Awards at shortstop; "the Wizard of Oz" took home 13 awards in his 19 seasons with the St. Louis Cardinals" It's not clear that Ozzie Smith is synonymous with "the Wizard of Oz". The DYK reviewers didn't seem to have a problem with it; it's pretty obvious to me (maybe because I wrote it) that the entire sentence refers to one person. What would you suggest? KV5 (Talk • Phils) 00:29, 29 June 2009 (UTC) A slightly longer, but more clear sentence (IMO): "Ozzie Smith, known as "the Wizard of Oz", has won the most Gold Glove Awards at shortstop; he took home 13 awards in his 19 seasons with the St. Louis Cardinals." Dabomb87 (talk) 00:41, 29 June 2009 (UTC) Done. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 01:08, 29 June 2009 (UTC) "Dave Concepción won five awards,[10] and four-time winners at shortstop include Tony Fernández and Alan Trammell." The connection between five- and four-time winners isn't close enough to warrant a comma, maybe a semicolon? I didn't think five words was enough to warrant the usage of a semicolon, plus I tend to overuse them as is, so I was trying to keep the number down. It's not really a length thing; more of textual flow and boundaries. See User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a: exercises in textual flow (ex. 3, question B) for what I mean, because I can't explain it well :) Dabomb87 (talk) 00:41, 29 June 2009 (UTC) OK, well, I don't need an excuse to use another semicolon. Done. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 01:08, 29 June 2009 (UTC) "Hall of Famers to win Gold Glove Awards" "to win"-->to have won or who have won Done. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 00:29, 29 June 2009 (UTC) "and the American League leader is Belanger (552 in 1974)"-->while Belanger (552 in 1974) leads in the American League Dabomb87 (talk) 15:34, 28 June 2009 (UTC) Incorrect usage of "while", isn't it? They didn't happen concurrently. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 00:29, 29 June 2009 (UTC) Caught me! Use "and" if you wish. The main problem was the phrasing, which didn't read quite right. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:41, 29 June 2009 (UTC) Rephrased a bit. Better now? KV5 (Talk • Phils) 01:08, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:34, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

• Support – I couldn't find any problems either. Giants2008 (17-14) 22:15, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Support

I also ran this article through AWB and found a couple of minor things that I fixed. Mostly related to references.--Kumioko (talk) 04:19, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

What AWB did was break references that were intentionally placed where it considered to be "misplaced". Please don't run AWB on the other articles; they are in a different order intentionally. If you need to know why, I can tell you. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 12:54, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

I apologize if it did not function as intended but its too late I already ran it through all the articles that appeared to need a change. With that said, there is no way for AWB to know if the references where placed due to personal preference and it is likely that someone else will happen by and make the same change eventually so its good to find that out now. Aside from the personal prefence placement of the references the MOS also states that there should not be a space between punctuation and references so thats why I removed the speces before the references. --Kumioko (talk) 13:25, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

But the spaces that you removed were not with punctuation. I'm well aware of the MOS and its reference requirements; the spaces that were removed were all in tables. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 13:32, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Um yes your right it was in the table but only in the references column of the table. I am going to drop a line on the AWB site to have them modify the logic so it does not remove the space after a pipe and well see what they say about it. I still think that space should be removed in accordance with the the MOS. --Kumioko (talk) 13:57, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Since it makes no difference in the way it displays, WP:MOS#Internal consistency should apply here. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 14:07, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 14:29, 5 July 2009 [9].

---

List of Olympic medalists in snowboarding

Nominator(s): Scorpion⁰⁴²² 20:22, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

I have been debating with myself for a few months about whether or not I should try to take this page to FLC, because the main portion of it is rather small - 14 items, and some may believe it fails 3b. It doesn't help matters that Snowboarding at the Winter Olympics is basically a stub (although it could easily be expanded quite a bit). However, I think it passes based on its notability and because WP:OLYMPICS has a long-established guideline and the page is simply following it. I guess notability is relative, but I've always seen 3b as being more against small lists of questionable notability rather than against all small lists. So, this is one of the smaller lists I've worked on, but I decided to try it because even if it fails, it'll still be a near-FL page, which is good enough for me (and, in 8 months, it will grow).

You'll notice that the table is a little different than some of the other similar FLs. I decided to try using {{flagIOCmedalist}} rather than {{flagIOCathlete}}. I also used a "details" link, similar to what is used in the List of 2008 Summer Olympics medalists. Enjoy! -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 20:22, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

• Looks good, but I prefer consistency. I slightly prefer the details link because it is more obvious, but since the Olympics medalist lists are so related, the same should be done for all. I also significantly prefer the athlete template; if you changed due to the comment at WT:OLY, I disagree with that discussion. The linked abbr is better than having the flag and the italisiced name and the abbr. Whatever you think, but I can help changing if it's a lot. I do like how you described what the events are in the lead. Reywas92^Talk 22:01, 21 June 2009 (UTC) And I have no problem at all with the length. There is subtantial information, will (eventually) grow, and can be separate for consistency. Hopefully the main article will also be expanded. Reywas92^Talk 22:09, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
  • I switched to the athlete template because since the details are used, the rows are double spaced, and using the template filled them. I'll switch back to the old one. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 22:43, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Support All looks great. Reywas92^Talk 15:28, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Truco

Comments General Dabs, external links check out fine. Lead 'Swiss athlete Philipp Schoch is the only snowboarder to win two gold medals, having won the parallel giant slalom in 2002, then successfully defended his title in 2006' -- IDK, but I think defending would sound better here than 'defended' Fixed. 'In the men's half-pipe event, Americans have won six of nine medals, and in 2002 Americans won all three medals in the event.' -- Comma after 2002. Added. References Link to IOC and ESPN.--Truco 503 02:54, 22 June 2009 (UTC) Added a link to IOC, but ESPN is already linked once. As always, thanks for taking a look. -- Scorpion0422 16:55, 22 June 2009 (UTC) Oh okay.--Truco 503 00:24, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

• Support -- Previous issues resolved/clarified; list meets WP:WIAFL.Truco ₅₀₃ 00:24, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:07, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs) "was one of few new sports or disciplines added to the Winter Olympic programme between 1992 and 2002, and was the only one not to have been a previous medal or demonstration event." Instead of "few", can you add the actual number? That's a typo. It's supposed to say five. Fixed. "to win two gold medals"-->to have won two gold medals, Fixed. "It is the only medal sweep by one nation to occur in snowboarding."-->It is the only medal sweep by one nation to have occured in snowboarding. Done. "14 medals, including five gold medals, more than any other nation" "14...five" is a bit jarring. Make 'em consistent please. Done. A lot of the red "details" links could be fixed by using section links. For example, women's halfpipe in 2002 could go to Snowboarding at the 2002 Winter Olympics#Halfpipe. I'll see if it's possible (because a template is used). My problem with doing that is that if pages are created (and they likely will be eventually), then the links would not be correct. "Medals per year" Per WP:MOSBOLD, we shouldn't be using bold for symbols (maybe italics). This should probably be remedied in other lists too. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:23, 25 June 2009 (UTC) Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:23, 25 June 2009 (UTC) Thanks for taking a look. -- Scorpion0422 15:59, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Weak support - I am hesitant to support fully because I don't like how the main article is still a stub (3b concern). But I agree with nominator that the Olympic Games is notable and that lists should be consistent. Also, the list looks okay.—Chris! _ct 01:44, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

• Comment – "In snowboarding cross, competitiors race down a course with jumps". Typo hiding in here. Giants2008 (17-14) 18:12, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
  • The typo was fixed during a round of changes by Parutakupiu, but I found a couple of new glitches that crept in. It's common for this to occur, but they should still be fixed before promotion.
    • "In 1998, four events, two for men and two for women, were disputed in two specialities". I wouldn't call Olympic events "disputes". There was nothing wrong with "held", the word used when I first reviewed the list.
    • "In this event, competitors race against each other down a a course with jumps, beams and other obstacles." One typo was traded for another. Giants2008 (17-14) 22:34, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
      • Reverted the verb change and fixed the typo. Thanks for pointing out those. Parutakupiu (talk) 22:49, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
        • Support – All my comments were addressed, and everything seems up to par. It is a short list, but the main article could be expanded in a similar way as the wrestling title articles. Giants2008 (17-14) 21:10, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 14:29, 5 July 2009 [10].

---

List of national parks of Sweden

Nominator(s): TheLeftorium 21:58, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

I am nominating this article for featured list status because I've been working on it for a few days and I think it meets the FL criteria now. It is partly based on the featured list List of National Parks of Canada. TheLeftorium 21:58, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

• Question Shouldn't this be "List of National Parks of Sweden" with capital N and P?--Crzycheetah 00:09, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

These nation park lists seem very inconsistent, some have capitalization, some don't. I think it should be in lower case unless it is used as proper noun.—Chris! _ct 01:45, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

I'd just like to point out that in the case of List of National Parks of Canada, "National Parks of Canada" is the name of the actual organization, so I figured that was the most suitable title for it. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 20:24, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

• Support. I didn't review the references, but besides that, it seems like a solid list. Eklipse (talk) 10:31, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
• Support. I noticed no problems when read the list. Ruslik_Zero 14:42, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
• Support the capitalization issue is a separate one and doesn't seem to affect the list much as a move will fix that quite easily, hence my support - also color should be accompany with symbols per WP:ACCESS—Chris! _ct 21:35, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

• Comments

Resolved comments from Crzycheetah

EPA? On the first use of Environmental Protection Agency mention EPA Done "200,000 ha (490,000 acres)" - write hectare in full and link it; link acre, too. Done The first section needs to be renamed. "National parks", maybe? Because "list" is very ambigious; also, there is a list in the second section, too. Done As Chris mentioned, color shouldn't be the only indicator. Done "A river delta in Sarek National Park." - no period is needed Done For the last three captions in the first section, add some info. Be creative! Just the park name is very dull. Done "Dalarna, Gävleborg, and Västmanland County" - Dalarna, Gävleborg, and Västmanland counties Done "Örebro County and Västra Götaland County" - Örebro and Västra Götaland counties Done Same with the location column. When I sort it alphabetically, Örebro County comes last. Same as above. The {{Sister}} template should always be located at the top of the last section in the article. Done Could you also add the English translations for the publishers? Done

• • It's very confusing to see Ängsö National Park listed last. Assuming the list is alphabetical, most readers expect to see it at the beginning, don't they?
    • "ÅÄÖ" are the three last letters of the Swedish alphabet.
      • en.wikipedia.org is an English encyclopedia.--Crzycheetah 05:18, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
        • Well, I don't know how to fix that. When you sort it alphabetically, Ängsö and Örebro County still comes last.
          • You could try "{{sort|Angso National Park|[[Ängsö National Park]]}}", and move the row to the correct location. That's how it's aphabetized in English. Jafeluv (talk) 09:46, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
            • Thanks, all fixed. TheLeftorium 10:28, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Since you added the map, there's a useless horizontal scrollbar. Are you able to fix the template?
    • I don't know what's causing that either. I'll ask Reywas92.

--Crzycheetah 01:48, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for reviewing! TheLeftorium 09:10, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Comments

• Please have titles of the NP articles be consistent. Many links in the table with "National Park" in the title redirect to a title with just the name, like Dalby Söderskog National Park, which redirs to Dalby Söderskog. Please check all of them and move some to include the full name. Unless it's a special exception or is not only an NP, they should all have National Park in the title. All official names seem to include it [11]
  • Done.
    • Great. I think Muddus, Padjelanta, and Stora Sjöfallet could be moved as well, and Sonfjället National Park should be changed to Sånfjället National Park.
      • Yeah, I need to add them to Wikipedia:Requested moves delete them with Template:Db-move first.
        • All done.
• Can we have a map? The article I linked to has a simple numbered map already on WP, and the EPA site has a pretty colored one with names, but I don't know if it's useable.
  • Would a map like the one used here be good?
    • A clickable map? That would be great! You can use File:Sweden location map.svg. I've also worked with these. See Template:Indiana NHLs map, replacing "USA Indiana" with "Sweden". I can help if you get me a set of coordinates. Reywas92^Talk 18:40, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
      • I'll try to make it look Template:Indiana NHLs map. I have started on it here.
        • I have added the map now.
• Perhaps you could have a link to each NP's site from the EPA.
  • Done.

I don't know. The list is good, but I think that neither this nor the Canadian one is the best it can be. I wrote the FL List of National Monuments of the United States, which has more info. There could be a photo for each NP, but only if that's possible. I would really like a short description of what's actually in the NPs. We've got a nice list of names, but why are they special? Reywas92^Talk 15:14, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

I'll see if I can add something. Thanks for taking a look! :) TheLeftorium 21:28, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

All done. TheLeftorium 16:50, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Support Great job!! Reywas92^Talk 18:44, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

• Support All looks alright. – (iMatthew • talk) at 02:28, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 11:46, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Oppose No need to relink Swedish language in lead. You mention World Heritage Sites in the lead but not Protected Area Network Parks. Could you briefly cover what that means please? "is comprised of " is generally considered to be incorrect. "is composed of" or "comprises" are more generally acceptable. "Baltic Sea that is dominated " that is=redundant. "and the waters of " the waters of=redundant. "Deciduous forest surrounded by a 56 meters (184 feet) wide earth bank takes up a large part of the park" doesn't read well to me. Is there a missing "that" after bank? "with abound 30 " about? "meadows rich with flowers " reads like a tourist brochure, not an encyclopedia. " moraine hills that are covered with virgin forest " that are=redundant. " borders to Norway " remove "to" "deep valleys sculpted by the sea" tourist brochure again. 4192 ->4,192 Establishes heading is odd - Date of establishment? The Rambling Man (talk) 10:33, 25 June 2009 (UTC) All done, thanks for reviewing. TheLeftorium 11:36, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

• Support nice work. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:46, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
• Support - nice to see what you have done with this article in the four years since I last edited it. Fine map. / Fred-J 11:13, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Please double check your future nominations for plagiarism or close paraphrasing. Dabomb87 (talk) 20:13, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Strong Oppose from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs) Plagiarism concerns: The basis of my opposition. These are just three examples picked at random; I'm afraid to look for more: Article: "Garphyttan National Park consists of landscape which has been formed by humans through agriculture and forestry" Source: "Garphyttan national park consists of ancient cultural landscape – land which has been formed by people through agriculture and forestry." Article: "Norra Kvill is a well-preserved ancient forest" Source: "Norra Kvill is something unique - a well-preserved ancient forest" Article: "The park is known for its ancient farm landscape in the archipelago environment, the spring flowers, and the varied bird life." Source: "The foremost sights of Ängsö are the ancient farm landscape in the archipelago environment, the spring flowers and the varied bird life." Dabomb87 (talk) 15:56, 24 June 2009 (UTC) Other things: "system of protected areas which represent"-->system of protected areas that represent "An additional six parks will be established between 2009 and 2013."-->Six parks will be established between 2009 and 2013. "are covered with broadleaf forest and together only cover approximately 2,000 ha (4,900 acres)." "with around 30 islands located in " "around"-->about I see text copied from the source,: Woah, whoa, hold on a sec. I would never plagiarize a source on purpose. Seriously, I meant to add quotations to the POV-ish sentences but I simply forgot. I will immediately do that where I feel they are necessary and rewrite as much as I can in my own words. TheLeftorium 16:16, 24 June 2009 (UTC) I'm not saying you did it on purpose, only that this is a serious issue that needs to be fixed. Dabomb87 (talk) 16:23, 24 June 2009 (UTC) Alright. "Plagiarism" concerns have been taken care of: [12] (I think there's some copyediting in there too). TheLeftorium 17:14, 24 June 2009 (UTC) The rest has been fixed as well (though I'm not sure what you mean about "I see text copied from the source", as I can't find anything else that has been copied from the source). Thanks for taking a look! TheLeftorium 17:21, 24 June 2009 (UTC) Comment I had to remove most of those quotation marks. Although they are the same words the source used, they should be used as paraphrases, not quotes. You can quote a sentence, but not just a generic word. Quotation marks around a single word are misconstrewed as scare quotes and are taken the wrong way. Either just write it as a paraphrase that happens to use one of the same words, or find a synonym. Reywas92Talk 18:16, 24 June 2009 (UTC) That I did not know. I have reworded the sentences so that they don't sound too much like the source. :) Thanks, TheLeftorium 18:30, 24 June 2009 (UTC) Comment There's a dead link (check the toolbox to your right). I'll try to revisit today or tomorrow. Dabomb87 (talk) 16:02, 29 June 2009 (UTC) "used as a landmark for seafarers" Can this be rephrased? It is the exact wording as that used in the source. Further spot checks revealed no problems. Dead links need to be resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 02:32, 2 July 2009 (UTC) Done, thanks! TheLeftorium 10:14, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 20:14, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 14:29, 5 July 2009 [13].

---

List of convicted computer criminals

Nominator(s): Esemono (talk) 05:08, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

This is round 2 for this article. All the problems/comments were resolved during the review process except for a request for a good copyedit. The copyedit has since been completed so resubmitting the article. Esemono (talk) 05:08, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

• Comment

• The list looks great after the copyedit, and my comments were resolved in the old FLC; however, the only thing that stands out now is that the publishers in the refs need to either be all linked (those with articles) or do not link any at all. I.e. link to CNET Networks.--Truco ₅₀₃ 00:51, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

• Done -- Esemono (talk) 04:29, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

• Support -- Previous issues resolved/clarified; list meets WP:WIAFL.--Truco ₅₀₃ 15:07, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Chrishomingtang

Comment - does the list contain all notable convictions of computer crime? I just want to make sure per the comprehensiveness criteria. I am leaning to support—Chris! ct 01:43, 21 June 2009 (UTC) All entries on the list are either notable computer criminals or their crimes are notable thus ensuring that all entries are notable convictions of computer crime. -- Esemono (talk) 04:07, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

• Support —Chris! _ct 00:19, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

• I seem to hark on about this, but reference dates should be consistent. Currently I see two formats "Month DD, YYYY" and "DD Month YYYY". Both are fine but it should be used consistently, per this. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 10:22, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

• Changed to consistent fate format. -- Esemono (talk) 12:11, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

• Support. I copy-edit the article slightly, and do not see any serious problems. Ruslik_Zero 15:13, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

• Support Oppose for now. In the introduction, the last sentence mentions Ancheta who was convicted for controlling botnets "to do his bidding". I think some specific details are needed here, what were the botnets used for? Spamming? ID theft?

fixed -- Esemono (talk) 00:22, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

• Some of the sentencing dates have specific dates, and some do not. I was unable to verify the date of sentencing using the reference provided for Jan de Wit, and the Richard Jones reference specifically states he pled guilty on June 3, 1993. The penalty for Gerald Wondra is missing a cite. These inconsistencies are no small issue and seem to indicate a lack of thorough copyediting. If necessary, I would add citations to the sentencing dates for full transparency and just to be sure there are no errors. --ErgoSum•talk•trib 18:23, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

• Cleared up the confusion for de Wit and while Richard Jones reference states he pled guilty on June 3, 1993 that doesn't mean he was sentenced the same day. Wondra's cite while was in the conviction column so I also added it to the sentencing dates for full transparency and just to be sure there are no errors. Also double checked, and confirmed all dates for the rest of the criminals. -- Esemono (talk) 00:21, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

• It looks better, but some entries have the year only, while some have dates. Are some of the specific dates not available? --ErgoSum•talk•trib 18:44, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

• Yeah I can only find the year for Abene. I know when he started the jail sentence, Jan, 1994, and who sentenced him, Louis L. Stanton, but no specific date. Same with the Australian hackers Phoenix, and Electron. Their case too I can only find the year. -- Esemono (talk) 02:20, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

• According to Abene himself, he was sentenced in 1993. Is he mistaken about the exact year, or am I missing something? --ErgoSum•talk•trib 21:49, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

• Cool you found a recent interview! But no more specifics eh? No exact date?-- Esemono (talk) 06:45, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I can tell you when he was indicted. I found another link that narrows it down to in the "last week". And this one which seems to indicate it happened on Nov 3. But I couldn't find any specifc dates for anyone else either, so I'm satisfied. --ErgoSum•talk•trib 14:52, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:21, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs) "criminal convictions were rare because there was an informal code of ethics." Can you expand on this? It doesn't really explain how the ethics prevented convictions, nor the people who followed the code. Cleared up -- Esemono (talk) 06:46, 28 June 2009 (UTC) OK, but you didn't really explain what kind of "ethics" they follow. It's obviously not ethics in the conventional sense since hacking, simply put, is not an ethical practice. Also, "white hat hackers" is overlinked now. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:07, 30 June 2009 (UTC) Has this been resolved? Dabomb87 (talk) 20:11, 3 July 2009 (UTC) I think you're confusing the subject of this article. This is a list of computer criminals not a detailed history/explanation on hacker subgroups. The intro should just BRIEFLY touch on the main points that correspond to the list. If the reader wants to find out more then they will click on the links to Hackers. -- Esemono (talk) 00:18, 4 July 2009 (UTC) True. I won't pursue. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:21, 4 July 2009 (UTC) "He then went on to sell the botnets"-->He then sold the botnets fixed -- Esemono (talk) 04:34, 25 June 2009 (UTC) The numbers are inconsistently formatted in the table. We have "9 monts" (typo, too) but "Fifty seven months" and "400 hours". If you're going to spell out all the numbers, numbers between between 21 and 99 use hyphens (e.g. twenty-one and ninety-nine). Generally, though, numbers under ten are spelled out and everything else is in numeral form. Fixed to follow numbers under ten are spelled out and everything else is in numeral form format --Esemono (talk) 04:34, 25 June 2009 (UTC) "US$8,054" But "AUS $1,000 " fixed -- Esemono (talk) 04:34, 25 June 2009 (UTC) "One year jail sentence"-->One-year jail sentence fixed -- Esemono (talk) 04:34, 25 June 2009 (UTC) "Six month prison sentence"-->Six-month prison sentence fixed -- Esemono (talk) 04:34, 25 June 2009 (UTC) "One year six month suspended sentence"-->One year and six months suspended sentence Dabomb87 (talk) 15:11, 24 June 2009 (UTC) fixed -- Esemono (talk) 04:34, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:21, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

• Magazines, journals, and newspapers should be in italics. You can achieve this by changing publisher= to work= in the citation template.

• The article doesn't cite any Magazines, journals, or newspapers. The cite templates used are book and web. -- Esemono (talk) 04:34, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

• The New York Post and Wired are publications. It doesn't matter if you use their websites; you still italicize their names. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:17, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

• Fixed as requested -- Esemono (talk) 03:25, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

• Since this is the English Wikipedia, you don't need (in English) in the citation templates. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:12, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

• fixed -- Esemono (talk) 04:34, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

• Oppose

• My concerns are not so much with the prose, the sources or the technicality of the sorting etc. My problem is: what's the criteria for inclusion? How is it decided who goes on the list and who doesn't? What's the lowest cut off point? And frankly can a list with such an "open" definition ever be exhaustive? I just don't see how this list is complied and thus would not know how to add to it. MPJ-DK (talk) 09:52, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

• The criteria is listed in the intro and only those who are notable criminals or have done notable crimes are included. -- Esemono (talk) 13:46, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

• The criteria for what constitutes a "Computer criminal" is defined yes in a very broad sense, in this definition hacking your boss' mail would make you a computer criminal. What makes one a "notable criminal" however is vague at best. I mean if say "Mark Abene" had only been convicted of the misdemeanor would that count? He's a criminal, but maybe not "notable" - and there is no way to say that these twenty-something criminals are the only "notable convinced criminals" out there? MPJ-DK (talk) 15:50, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

• Yes stealing and reading someone's mail is a criminal offense. Not sure where you're getting the ages from, the list ranges from early 20s to early 40s which makes sense considering the computer industry is only a few decades old. And Mark Abene wasn't only convicted of a misdemeanor and a quick google search will confirm that he is quite famous and notable. Also, the article will be able to handle the notable question just like other featured lists like, List of gay, lesbian or bisexual people, or the List of Dartmouth College alumni -- Esemono (talk) 23:23, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

• Not ages, there are 23 entries on the list, does not sound like it's a very exhaustive list, just the 23 that you happened to find sources for. MPJ-DK (talk) 23:51, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

• As talked about before, this is a comprehensive list of Notable computer criminals. The people are chosen because they are notable or involved in a notable crime. I was able to find references for these people because they are notable. The list will be able to be controlled by limiting the amount of people to just notable people much like the List of gay, lesbian or bisexual people, or the List of Dartmouth College alumni -- Esemono (talk) 03:58, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

• Alright, it seems like it has not been a problem in other articles, I withdraw my objection. MPJ-DK (talk) 05:33, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Comments

I ran this article through AWB and found a couple of minor errors that I fixed. I will come back and look at it closer soon.

• I also noticed that there are a couple of unformatted references (missing brackets or missing the proper cite template). --Kumioko (talk) 04:08, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 14:29, 5 July 2009 [14].

---

List of Maryland Terrapins football honorees

Nominator(s): Strikehold (talk) 15:37, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured list because I think it meets the criteria. Strikehold (talk) 15:37, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

• Support – looks good to me, very informative, useful and accessible. That's quite a compliment, as I know absolutely nothing about either American football or the Terrapins. Cliftonian (Talk • Contibs) 17:14, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

• Comment - Got two questions. Why is the All-Americans table aligned center? And is there a reason why the tables are not sortable?—Chris! _ct 23:00, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

• Not really. Is that better? I nested the key and All-Americans table inside an invisible table and aligned the table to the left margin and centered the key above it.
• For consistency and appearance mainly. The All-ACC table is really long, and would make scrolling a pain, so I cut it into thirds. Making it sortable like that would defeat the purpose of sorting (if that makes sense). Ditto the UM Hall of Fame table. Strikehold (talk) 23:30, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

• Ok, I see what you mean. I am closed to be able to support, though I would like other more experienced reviewers to look at the prose before supporting.—Chris! _ct 00:27, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

• Support - —Chris! _ct 01:28, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

• Support — I was asked to do a pre-FLC review and copy edit, which I performed. Even with that, I didn't find very much to fix. It's a clean and clear list that simply looks nice. JKBrooks85 (talk) 23:57, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

• Comment – During a review I did before this came to FLC, I noticed two photos that were licensed as in the public domain, but no evidence existed on the images' pages that they were published before 1923, as stated. Has an effort been made to research this further? Giants2008 (17-14) 21:55, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

• For everyone's awareness, Giants2008 is referring to the lead image (Maryland/Johns Hopkins) and the last image (Curley Byrd). Both were without a doubt produced before 1923, but there is a question as to whether they were actually published before then. The source (Univ. of Maryland library system) is not clear on that point. I replaced the lead image with one that was published in 1915, and am looking for a suitable replacement for the Curley Byrd image. I might also send an e-mail to the Univ. of Maryland to see if they can shed light on the publication dates for the two images in question. Strikehold (talk) 16:42, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

• Still haven't found a definitive answer to this, so I removed the picture. I believe this addresses the image issue. Strikehold (talk) 07:15, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 20:53, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs) "and it has participated in the sport " Alright I changed that. "During periods of both ascendancy and mediocrity, individual Maryland players of exceptional ability have received various accolades." The first phrase "During ... mediocrity" and "of exceptional ability" seem superfluous to me. The first is irrelevant, and the second seems obvious; players with ordinary abilities probably wouldn't win the award. I don't think it's superfluous, because it is seemingly contradictory. One would expect great teams' players to get awards and honors, but not necessarily ones on poorly performing teams. As shown in the list, they've had players get these even when the teams were bad (e.g. Dick Shiner in the 1960s and LaMont Jordan in the 1990s). "Terrapins have won several prestigious individual awards, including the Chuck Bednarik Award, the Dick Butkus Award, the Lombardi Award, and the Outland Trophy, each of which recognizes the best player at a particular position in a given season. " What makes the awards "prestigious"? How about nationally recognized? I don't know, do you have a suggested change? "nationally recognized" works for me. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:00, 22 June 2009 (UTC) Okay, replaced. "Over time, the sources used to determine the consensus selections have varied." I've slightly retooled that and the following sentence based on the comment below, but that word is still necessary for clarity's sake in my opinion. It indicates that it has been a gradual progression of selectors being recognized and un-recognized by the NCAA. "Currently, the NCAA uses five selectors " "Currently" is a dated word. If the number changes often, you may want to use {{as of}}. I used that since I didn't know what year they started using those five. I've found that information and added it. "In 1923, end Bill Supplee was selected" Link to end? Okay, linked. "which made him the first, and thus far only, Maryland player to receive the honor twice."-->which made him the only Maryland player to receive the honor twice thus far. Suggested change is awkward in my opinion. "and twelve Terrapins received All-Southern Conference honors a total of fourteen times." "twelve"--12 and "fourteen"-->14 per WP:MOSNUM WP:MOSNUM: "numbers greater than nine are commonly rendered in numerals, or may be rendered in words if they are expressed in one or two words (16 or sixteen, 84 or eighty-four, 200 or two hundred, but 3.75, 544, 21 million". I changed to make this usage uniform. "second or third teams an additional sixty times"-->second or third teams an additional 60 times Ditto. "then-school record "-->then-school-record Hmm, now that I think about it, I'm not certain that anything should be hyphenated here actually. I've avoided the problem by changing to "a school-record six...", since it is clear in the next sentence that that record did not stand. The "All Conference honorees" table has "References" at the bottom but only provides one reference. Changed to singular. "Comparatively speaking, Maryland's" I've never heard the word used like that, so I changed to "By comparison" "eight different organizations" Changed. "At 5 ft 9 in (1.75 m)" Primary units (feet and inches here) should be spelled out in full on their first appearance. Expanded. "who had led Maryland to a school-record 22-game winning streak and an upset victory in the 1952 "Game of the Century"." You might mention the team Maryland played against in the Game of the Century. Changed. "and he coached Maryland for two" The ideas here seem separate enough to warrant independent clauses to me. "With a loss in the 1977 Cotton Bowl, Maryland narrowly missed an opportunity for the national championship." "With" is usually a poor connector, and this case is no exception, as it connects the clauses poorly. Try "Because they lost the 1977 Cotton Bowl [to team], Maryland narrowly missed an opportunity for the national championship." Reworded that. "Additionally, since 1982" "Additionally" is not necessary. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:50, 22 June 2009 (UTC) I've removed it.

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:50, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

• Support – I gave this a pre-FLC review, and it looked like a very strong list even then. The FLC process has strengthened it further. There was one New York Times reference without an access date, but I added one myself to expedite my support. Giants2008 (17-14) 18:03, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 14:29, 5 July 2009 [15].

---

List of highways in Essex County, New York

Nominator(s): Mitch/HC32 20:03, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured list because this, after 15 months, have been finally finished. I worked hard and recently got help copyediting for grammar and other errors. All comments are welcomed. (NOTE: If you have prose concerns, can I ask that he or she put out an entire list of issues? Grammar is not a strong point and would be helpful. Thanks.) It meets the criteria and has the precedents of List of highways in Warren County, New York (to which this is based), and List of state highways in Marquette County, Michigan. Mitch/HC32 20:03, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

• Dabs; please check the disambiguation links identified in the toolbox. Dabomb87 (talk) 13:26, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Done.Mitch/HC32 18:56, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

• Comments - I have some concerns before I can support this article to be a FL:

1. Why are there citations in the lead?
2. Can the headers for the list of routes be changed to match what is in List of highways in Warren County, New York.
3. In the table for State routes, U.S. Routes, and Interstates, I-87 and US 9 should be listed before the state routes rather than mixed in with them.
4. Are the formation dates for any of the reference routes (besides NY 915K) known?
5. Request shields for the county routes.
6. Can lengths be added for the county routes? Dough4872 (talk) 18:32, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Citations are allowed in the lead if the comment doesn't come later in the body. Fixed the second one. Fixed the third. For the fourth issue, that is really doubtful, as 910L (now 185), and 915K are really the only two with ways to have it. The fifth thing: Requested, don't think you'll get them in time. The final thing, it would take weeks to get all those in, and besides, Warren doesn't have him, so its following a precedent.Mitch/HC32 18:52, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Since my issues have been addressed, I will Support this for FL (By the way, the shields have been created). Dough4872 (talk) 16:03, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:36, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Oppose from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs) Plenty of prose problems, but I'm willing to reconsider. "There is one interstate highway in Essex County, which is Interstate 87 (better known as the Adirondack Northway)."-->The only interstate highway in Essex County is Interstate 87, better known as the Adirondack Northway. "The only U.S. highway in the county is U.S. Route 9. " "The next level of highway, state touring routes, with which there are eleven of them." Not a grammatical sentence, and numbers over ten are usually written in numerical form. "All of the six reference routes in the county are short connectors" "There are over sixty county roads" "sixty"-->60 "There is one interstate highway in Essex County, which is Interstate 87, stretching for"-->Interstate 87 is the only interstate highway in Essex County, and stretches for "There is only one U.S. Route in Essex County, U.S. Route 9, which continues for 58.99 miles (94.94 km) in two segments."-->U.S. Route 9, the only one U.S. Route in Essex County, continues for 58.99 miles (94.94 km) in two segments. "The first, a 57.83 miles (93.07 km) one enters from Warren County near Schroon Lake and the second, a 1.16 miles (1.87 km) stretch from both lines of Clinton County."-->The first, spanning 57.83 miles (93.07 km), enters from Warren County near Schroon Lake and the second, spanning 1.16 miles (1.87 km), stretches from both lines of Clinton County. "Route 9 was assigned in the area in 1926 and remained relatively unchanged since." Add "has" before remained. I'm stopping there because I think that's enough to show you that you need a copy-editor—Juliancolton (talk · contribs) is a good one. The issues are easy to spot, but I've neither the willpower nor the obligation to list them all. No need to ping me when the copy-edit is done; I'll be watching. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:03, 18 June 2009 (UTC) Done with the comments above for now. Hired JC for copyediting.Mitch/HC32 17:53, 19 June 2009 (UTC)  Doing..., though I am confused by this sentence: In Keene, there are five county routes along NY 73 that are former alignments of NY 86. –Juliancolton | Talk 18:00, 19 June 2009 (UTC) Fixed it days ago.Mitch/HC32 13:58, 25 June 2009 (UTC) I made a few more tweaks, but there are some areas that I simply don't understand, and I don't feel competent to fix them. –Juliancolton | Talk 19:16, 25 June 2009 (UTC) I copyedited the article myself, which isn't easy for me, so I hope its to your liking.Mitch/HC32 13:47, 26 June 2009 (UTC) "Around this time, there was an addition of New York State Route 915K" Not sure what that means; what was it added to? Dabomb87 (talk) 21:44, 27 June 2009 (UTC)\\ Clarifying, the highway system.Mitch/HC32 21:46, 27 June 2009 (UTC) Done.Mitch/HC32 21:47, 27 June 2009 (UTC) "The next level of highway, state touring routes, which has 11 currently designated highways." Not sentence. Perhaps stuff was deleted by accident? "Elizabethtown–Wadhams Road" Is it "Elizabeth" to "Wadhams Road", or is "Elizabeth to Wadhams" Road? If the former, the en dash should be spaced. Also, there should be em dashes in the blank cells (notes column). Dabomb87 (talk) 14:51, 29 June 2009 (UTC) Done :) - Mitch/HC32 15:05, 29 June 2009 (UTC) What about the em dashes in the blank cells? When that is resolved, I will support. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:08, 29 June 2009 (UTC) {{done}} –Juliancolton | Talk 15:25, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:36, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Resolved issues from Rambo's Revenge (talk · contribs)

Oppose from Rambo's Revenge (talk · contribs) "about 697 miles (1,122 km) of the highway system in New York, with 339.6 miles (546.5 km) of state roads and 357.4 miles (575.2 km) of county roads", but the ref says 330.6, where have the extra 9 miles come from? Also this will affect the total. Recalculated and fixed. "including New York State Route 192 (now part of New York State Route 86,[7] New York State Route 427 (now part of New York State Route 73, and New York State Route 86A (also part of NY 73)." You have three open parenthesis and only one closing one. Fixed. "promote New York State Route 910L to a touring route, now designated NY 185" don't link both because the first redirects to second Fixed. "The lowest is CR 2" lowest? makes it sound like it is the one of least height above sea-level or something. Similarly for highest. Reworded I think it looks quite messy when the roadnames seperate from the icons they are next to wrap onto the next line. Can you force the names & icons to stay in one row. Fixed. (Templating is not my thing). Consistency issues between tables. First has header "Locations" the other "Towns crossed", first is sortable, second isn't. Fixed. When sorting buy route in the first, I'd expect US 9, and NY 9N to sort above "NY 910K" or am I wrong there. Its going by order of importance of the designations (Interstates (87), U.S. Routes (9), Touring Routes (9N), and Reference Routes (910K)), Therefore, as I suggested, shouldn't 9 go before 9N which should go before 910K..., when sorting by route? Rambo's Revenge (talk) 20:35, 30 June 2009 (UTC) No, its going in order of functionality and importance, which NYSDOT follows. What I'm saying is when you click the by "Route #" the order given is shown in the collapsible box. I'm saying shouldn't NY 9N go before NY 910K when listing alphabetically. I'd also argue that US 9 should go before that, basically shouldn't it sort by the numbers of the roads. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 21:56, 30 June 2009 (UTC) Extended content I-87 NY 185 NY 22 NY 28N NY 3 NY 373 NY 431 NY 73 NY 74 NY 86 NY 910K NY 910M NY 912T NY 913Q NY 915F NY 915K NY 9N US 9 What is the order of the Locations listed? By order in which they are approached. I clarified that in the article. These are two-way roads, approached from which direction? And say so in the list. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 21:56, 30 June 2009 (UTC) You seem to have clarified this with this edit so I'll strike this now. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 11:19, 1 July 2009 (UTC) Does the order merit sortability considering it is only the first being sorted by? The sortability should be for the first, second and third. However, I can't fix that. Why won't {{sort}} work? Rambo's Revenge (talk) 20:35, 30 June 2009 (UTC) I notice you've made these unsortable now? Why, and also what was the relevence of first, second and third. I might be able to help with the sorting code if you want it. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 21:56, 30 June 2009 (UTC) The length obviously is sortable for learning's sake, and so is when they were designated, the other two would make it hard.Mitch/HC32 01:31, 1 July 2009 (UTC) Sorry we had completely crossed wires here. I thought you were saying Location should be sorted by "the first, second and third". I now realise you were talking about which columns should sort. Anyway I'm fine with this. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 01:44, 1 July 2009 (UTC) Ref 1 and have 2 New York State Department of Transportation as publisher, and others have it as author making it come first in the ref. Be consistent, I think publisher is better too. Fixed. You should use <ref name="1926 map">[[Bureau of Public Roads]], [[:Image:1926us.jpg|United States System of Highways]], November 11, 1926</ref> one the first occasions and <ref name="1926 map"/> on all others. Similarly for references named "jimapco" and "quad86". Fixed. What is the point of these 4 links that redirect to this article, i.e. just refresh the page. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 19:04, 30 June 2009 (UTC) Redirected elsewhere. I hope all of your concerns are resolved.Mitch/HC32 19:27, 30 June 2009 (UTC) More things You should add class="unsortable" to the Notes column. Done. Why the missing years in the first table? There is no official documentation to when the reference route system was first started, and the reference routes without them are just completely unsure of. 915K was recent, and thus has a referenced year. Why is 910M and 913Q linked to New York State Route 73? Done. Similarly why do 915F and 915K link to Interstate 87 which has no mention of either. Done. Reading above comments I'm not happy with your answer to Dough4872's question "Can lengths be added for the county routes?". There is no WP:DEADLINE, and Warren was promoted over a year ago. Additionally would it be possible to also add years? Rambo's Revenge (talk) 20:35, 30 June 2009 (UTC) Then there will be over 88 yahoo maps references, and will be a massive eyesore. As for the years, county routes are hard to come by as jurisdiction is not controlled. We can be sure that they were in by 1969, (For almost all of them, but we cannot be inconsistent. Also, the New York State Department of Transportation and Essex County Highway Department do not use the same highway designations, so its really hard to tell when which was established. Warren itself is another 80 and also would be an eyesore.Mitch/HC32 20:54, 30 June 2009 (UTC) Lots of references won't be an eyesore. You can make the reflist into multiple columns. For example this recent FL which has 92 refs. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 21:56, 30 June 2009 (UTC) Not sure my comments are needed here but I didn't see it mentioned and I think a legend to tell the readers what the meaning is of the different signs are for clarification. I also recommend if you cannot determine the distances then put an emdash centered in the cell like you did for the first table. That way the readers won't think that the table is incomplete. --Kumioko (talk) 00:58, 1 July 2009 (UTC) I had to go to an interview, so I got interrupted.Mitch/HC32 01:31, 1 July 2009 (UTC) I am done, this was a major headache, and now instead of 15 sources, there are 104 - meaning 89 sources. Wow. I hope this now gets your support.Mitch/HC32 20:14, 1 July 2009 (UTC) Well done. I'm really do see that as an improvement to the list. I have struck the oppose, but would like the possibility of numerical sorting (my only unstruck bullet point) to be discussed/implemented before giving my full support. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 22:51, 2 July 2009 (UTC) After 20 minutes of fiddling - I got it the way you put it above. :) - Hope it gets your support.Mitch/HC32 23:20, 2 July 2009 (UTC) That wasn't quite what I meant. I've fixed it to what I meant, if you disagree please do say or revert. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 23:40, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Well done, I realise as a result of my review you've had to put in a fair bit of time to this list. I'm glad you persevered, and I can now support this list. Congratulations, Rambo's Revenge (talk) 23:40, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

• Support looks good! iMatthew ^talk at  15:14, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
• Support I can't put my finger on any problems. MPJ-DK (talk) 09:26, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.