Talk:Chris Benoit

Article pretext bias

This article reads as though pro-wrestling is a legitimate sport. It isn't. People are harping on about Chris Benoit and his "accomplishments" like he is an Olympic marathon runner. He is a stuntman. Performing tricks that are visually entertaining. Nothing more. My opinion is that this man is nothing more than a steroid abusing murderer. 114.77.66.191 (talk) 07:55, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Your opinion which is not neutral. Pro wrestling is not legit but still technically a sport. Benoit was a more active actor. People look at actors and their accomplishments as if they are great. The article needs improvement yes, but if you want you can go right ahead and work on it.--WillC 11:25, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Chris Benoit's height

Chris Benoit was never billed 5'11". His height bill was 5'10". Numerous video games, trading cards, etc back this up. I'm aware this page is locked for the obvious reasons, but that's driving me nuts. Please change it! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.101.57.67 (talk) 20:20, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

WWE ignoring Benoit's Royal Rumble win

It seems that the WWE isn't acknowledging that Benoit won the 2004 Royal Rumble. Perhaps something about this could be added to the article.Unisock (talk) 01:40, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

It is mentioned here already, in a form that covers all aspects of his WWE career. The Rumble win is included in this and there is no reason to mention specifics. !! Justa Punk !! 03:40, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Jesus, man, get with it! The WWE isn't acknowledging ANYTHING about Benoit EVER. They've taken Wrestlemania XX, Backlash 2004, and other DVDs out of print featuring Benoit prominently. He's literally become, as in the TWF (The Wrestling Fan) forums, "GUY WHO NEVER EXISTED" in the WWE. AndarielHalo (talk) 01:50, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

auctually thats isnt true, he is still in the History of the WWE Championship DVD, They didnt take off the United States Championship match from Wrestlemania 23 DVD. Also its wrong of WWE to try to make it like he hasent existed. Chris Bennoit is the greatest technical wrestler to ever live. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.30.241.250 (talk) 20:57, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

The reason he isn't being recognized is because the extent of his crime. The WWE does not want that to be projected as part of their image. Haysead (talk) 13:28, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

I'll add that the US title match at Wrestlemania 23 was not a major part of the show, so they aren't featuring him prominently. The point is NOT to present him ina positive person light (as opposed to positive wrestler light). The material that featured him prominently (WM 20, the following Backlash and the previous Royal Rumble) paint the person as a good person - especially Backlash because it was in Edmonton. !! Justa Punk !! 00:28, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Exactly. They removed WM 20 because Benoit was the ME. He won the WHC. Thats too positive, and makes the E look like they support him and what he did. They want nothing to do with that. There are still old copies, but they are few and far between. Killswitch Engage (talk) 04:07, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Still doesn't explain why he's blurred out on The Legacy of Stone Cold Steve Austin DVD in a small backstage segment. That didn't exactly put Benoit in a positive light. I think they've just forgotten to blur him out, or not bothered. I can't blame WWE for doing what they are to Benoit, but I still don't agree that he should be removed from all mention. Would they do the same if John Cena (killing the WWE Championship's credence doesn't count...) or Batista killed somebody? Who knows. --Kaizer13 (talk) 16:25, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

They would. And there is a chance that Benoit was blurred off the SCSA DVD because (dare I say it) Stone Cold said so! Probably legit as well by Steve. !! Justa Punk !! 04:04, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Actually WWE added him to the list of top Royal Rumble winners so it may show that they may start giving out the DVD and other merchandise again. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rawisrob2 (talk • contribs) 02:44, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

5 star match

Under Championships/Accomplishments there is no mention of his 5 star match with Great Sasuke from '94. Please add this in. Herotastic (talk) 22:18, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

the article states that benoit drove from his home(assumed to be in quebec) to calgary, and that it is a three hour drive. The distance is over two thousand miles, and over twenty four hours driving time. Unlock all pages, you hypocrites. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.45.48.184 (talk) 11:16, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Actually, it would be roughly three hours' drive from Edmonton, to which Chris and his parents moved from Montreal when Chris was quite young. 24.224.254.38 (talk) 00:27, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Murder theory by Satanists

I came upon this article (http://www.johnnyleeclary.com/files/page.php?p=69) from the motivational speaker (ex-wrestler) Johnny Angel. I am not sure how much credit can be given to his opinion, but I believe that it is worth noting (Under the Death Section of the article) that there is another theory to the presumed double-murder-suicide, even if the official account is otherwise. I mean I am not a fan of Benoit, but the whole killing does not make complete sense to me, so I think we owe it to the reader to direct them to investigate more.

--Wyjay (talk) 23:08, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

That site does not appear to be a reliable source and generally we don't mention theories, unless it's an extremely main stream theory that has been mentioned in multiple reliable sources. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 23:18, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

editsemiprotected

{{editsemiprotected}} "This was further helped by when Benoit was fifteen..."

should be changed to

"When Benoit was fifteen..."

 Done —Ms2ger (talk) 12:45, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Date of death contradiction

The date of death at the top of the article is cited as Sunday, June 24, 2007, however, the body of the article indicates that he died on Monday, June 25, 2007. The citation listed for the second date leads to a dead link. I've had trouble finding a source that cites the proper date. Some list Sunday and some list Monday. Can we get some clarity on this? Is the date of death even definite? -- Uncle Dick (talk) 20:48, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

No one knows the exact date for sure because he was alone when he killed himself. The bodies were found Monday, that's the only thing anyone can say FOR SURE. Wwehurricane1 (talk) 21:39, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

I just found this article, which summarizes the final report issued by the Fayette County Sheriff's Department. It indicates that Benoit did in fact die on Sunday, June 24. I will update the article accordingly. -- Uncle Dick (talk) 16:57, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism

To be honest, I think it's about time this page was semi protected again. The amount of IP vandalism is still at an intolerable level - and because this page has been semi protected previously, I would suggest that it be permanent. Or at least for a major period of time (such as six months at least). !! Justa Punk !! 03:23, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Just bumping this up in the hope an admin with this on their watchlist sees this message. IP vandalism is continuing - lately involving the lead section. !! Justa Punk !! 07:50, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Requested semi-protection. Gavyn Sykes (talk) 16:51, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

What happened? The protection was removed and now IP's are at it again. !! Justa Punk !! 02:24, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

• I officially ask that an admin semi protect this page again - and retain it for at least six months. This page is clearly a target for anonymous IP's and it needs to be curtailed. !! Justa Punk !! 03:23, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

This isn't the place to request semi-protection. You should request it at WP:RFPP. ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 07:05, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Removal of murder in header

Why does any mention of Benoit murdering his family keep keep on vanishing from the header? This is easily one of the things he is most notable for (esp among non wrestling fans) and is easily more significant than him winning various titles and wining the Royal Rumble.harlock_jds (talk) 22:40, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Probably just vandalism. Mention of the murders needs to be kept in the lead. Gavyn Sykes (talk) 22:41, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

ah i see i got confused when trying to see who removed the information and thought it was an established editor instead of a anon editor that has been adding RS about this on other articles which is why i brought it up here. Nevermind. harlock_jds (talk) 22:47, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Excuse, but don't dare undermine Benoit's accomplishments for his murder-suicide case. Those accomplishments were highly meaningful for the skill he possessed, its only he messed himself up in the long run. Now, I'm finished ranting. Continue on with ya'll wiki editing Contributions/192.30.202.6 (talk) 15:51, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

They were meaningful for pro wrestling, yes. But he's known to more people for the murder-suicide than for his wrestling accomplishments (which I agree were quite significant). Gavyn Sykes (talk) 16:18, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

He is the second of only three men to hold both titles within their respective promotions (the others being Bill Goldberg and Booker T).

kevin nash bret hart hulk hogan big show that i know of who have hold both titles within their respective promotions —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.221.133.211 (talk) 14:03, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

That quote is referring to the World Title (the one presently held by CM Punk) and not the WWE Title. Nash, Hart, Hogan and Show never won the World Title in WWE. They won the other title. !! Justa Punk !! 06:47, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

did anyone else notice

did anyone else notice that after this, the wwe stopped hyping the ecw roster as extreme and stopped calling them extremists like theyd regulrly did, should that be mentioned anywhere? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.218.69.138 (talk) 19:58, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Since it is original research and speculation on your part, and you have no reliable sources to prove your claims, no it should not. ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 01:54, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, unsigned comment, they did stop referring to ECW wrestlers by that, but since WWE themselves have made no concrete mention as to why they did it, its just speculation. Drunknesmonsta (talk) 20:19, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Category: Professional Wrestling Deaths should be removed.

This category is reserved for wrestlers who died in the ring, or as a direct result of in-ring injuries.

Though one could possibly attribute Benoit's in-ring concussions to his mindset at his death, this is a stretch.

Can someone fix this? InedibleHulk (talk) 08:02, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

WP:SOFIXIT rdfox 76 (talk) 23:53, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Who says that category is reserved for that specific purpose? Where is the consensus? !! Justa Punk !! 13:40, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

I can't fix it, Rdfox. The article is protected. And Punk, concensus or not, if you take a look at the articles in the category, they all have dying from in-ring injuries in common. Except for Benoit. The category is also related (according to the page) to Deaths in Sport, which also only lists athletes who died while competing. Not going to ruin my day if you keep it like this, just trying to help things on Wikipedia make sense. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:17, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Chris Candido didn't die in the ring or from in ring injuries and he's listed. !! Justa Punk !! 12:24, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Candido died of a infection stemming from surgery on a broken leg, which occured in the ring (or just outside of it, technically). A bit more indirect than the others, but still direct enough. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:44, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Blood clot, my mistake. Still counts, either way. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:49, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

If you want to go that way, Benoit's death was indirectly related to dementia caused by shots to the back of the head in the ring. That's as direct as what you are claiming about Candido. !! Justa Punk !! 08:15, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Decent argument, but again, indirect and hard to verify. Even if Benoit's brain damage and resulting apparent dementia could be 100% linked to his in-ring concussions (which is unproven), there's no evidence that dementia causes people to kill themselves or others. The dementia would have inhibited his judgment, and maybe even caused some delusions that he based his fatal actions on, but the cause of death is still strangulation. He may just as well done the same thing for entirely unrelated reasons, without any concussions at all. If Benoit had eventually died of the brain damage alone, you may have had a valid point.

In Candido's case, the clot developed as a result of damage caused by his broken leg. And that's precisely what killed him. Straightforward A-B-C chain of events. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:53, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

It's a straight forward chain of events with Benoit's dementia as well. It has been verified by Benoit's father and Chris Nowinski who has the experience and pulled out of wrestling in time. How else could he have had those concussions? Wrestling was Benoit's life and that's enough proof of the link to the same level as the proof of Candido's. !! Justa Punk !! 00:54, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm not saying Benoit's dementia wasn't caused by his in-ring injuries. It almost certainly was, or this was at least a huge factor. I think you're missing the point. The dementia didn't kill Benoit. He killed himself. Far from a wrestling ring. Many dementia sufferers don't kill themselves and their families, and many people who do do not suffer from dementia. I can't make my point any clearer, so if you're still convinced you're right, there's no use arguing it any further. If you want to "win" at the sake of Wikipedia's accuracy, go ahead. InedibleHulk (talk) 18:47, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

It was in that demented state that he killed Nancy and Daniel and then killed himself. No one person wins on Wikipedia - facts win. !! Justa Punk !! 03:02, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Punk, I definitely see where you are coming from. You are saying that in ring injuries (concussions), led todementia, which, in turn, led to benoit's suicide. but the Dementia did not kill him directly, as an infection would. Another example would be Owen Hart. Owen hart fell from the rafters, the impact of the fall led to a tear in his aorta, which caused his lungs to fill with blood, and killed him. The fall, led directly to the cause of death. Benoit's injuries did not directly led to his death, they led to mental issues, which led to HIM killing HIMSELF by strangulation. (to those who are anti caps, i apologize.) Dimentia does not equal strangulation, Benoit's cause of death and, therefore, I must agree with Hulk. -Blackmachismo131 (talk) 01:56, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

You actually supported me and the facts with your commentary. Chain of events - no matter how many - that led to the death of a wrestler. Thank you for your support. !! Justa Punk !! 05:30, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

You still seem to be utterly missing, or willfully ignoring, the point. Nobody is arguing that it hasn't been reasonably proven that Benoit's brain was damaged, and that damage came from wrestling. It's as matter of fact as any fact gets. BUT...dementia is a state of mind, in the same way (though on another level) that being drunk or depressed is. If Benoit had merely gotten drunk at a bar, before coming home and doing what he did, would you honestly say that bar caused his (and his family's) death to a degree where you could put in a theoretical "Deaths in O'Flanagans" category? Or say his wife said or did something that made him depressed. Could you imagine saying she caused the tragedy? The chain of events is basically the same in all these scenarios, up until the states of mind. What one does with that state of mind once they get it is up to them, and Benoit chose to strangle himself. Hence, to paraphrase another famous Canadian wrestling theory "Benoit screwed Benoit", not Vince, and not wrestling. InedibleHulk (talk) 09:03, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Wrestling played a part. The end. !! Justa Punk !! 00:33, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

The weight machine also played a part. Should we create a "weight machine-realated death" section, and put benoit in it? Maybe anything that he has ever done, that has killed anybody, like driving, or playing sports, should have a category and he can go in all of them, because life is nothing but a long chain of events that eventually leads to our death. Blackmachismo131 (talk) 20:08, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

First two pictures in 'In Wrestling' section.

I propose these should be changed.
Sharopshooter photo: because you can't see either of their faces (rope is blocking)
Diving Headbutt photo: blurry/grainy.
Anyone else agree? --Scythre (talk) 15:28, 11 August 2009 (UTC)