Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2010 December 3: Difference between revisions

Content deleted Content added

Inline

Revision as of 02:11, 3 December 2010

< 2 December	4 December >

Guide to deletion

Purge server cache

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/I know I have the best of time and space

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Ron Ritzman (talk) 01:58, 11 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Holiday Inn Fire 1978, Greece, New York

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Non-notable fire. Orange Mike | Talk 02:07, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Neutral pending additional sources being found/not found. AfD created two minutes after article creation. (Note, article was created earlier and speedied it seems, appears due to NPOV issues.) - The Bushranger _{Return fire}^{Flank speed} 02:12, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Neutral - would likely support with a rewrite. Ten were killed, making this a little more notable, in my view. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 02:55, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

response - on a global basis, a fire in which only ten people died is just another slow news day. I realize they were North Americans, but "ten people died" is not an assertion of notability in any way. --Orange Mike | Talk 03:02, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

- Oh, I agree with you completely. But I'm willing to give a little good faith that something could be turned up to indicate more notability before throwing an article to the AFD wolves. - The Bushranger _{Return fire}^{Flank speed} 03:08, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

10 people may seme trivial to some people, considering that some natural disasters which kill thousands are not even documented on here but the National Fire Association considers 10 or more people killed in a hotel fire to be notable here. If you consider how many hotel fires have ever taken place in the United States, literally thousands upon thousands I'm certain, obviously those listed have some claim to notability as fire incidents in hotels over the years in my view.♦ Dr. Blofeld 22:23, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. -- Jclemens-public (talk) 04:14, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. -- Jclemens-public (talk) 04:15, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Still neutral on this one, but the fire was ruled arson, so it's essentially about the unsolved 1978 murder of ten people. Mandsford 15:53, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

On further examination, I can't say keep. The "I realize they were North Americans" (Canadians staying in a U.S. motel) comment is kind of another way of saying that if this had been a hotel fire in Pakistan, it probably wouldn't be notable. While that doesn't mean that we should apply bias , the only reason this came up at all was because someone made a Facebook page about the case and it came back in the news recently [1] [2] and [3]. What's striking is a lack of notability that surprised the reporters of those articles. The Star noted that "There are no monuments or memorials to the fire victims in Greece. A Red Lobster and another hotel stand where the Holiday Inn once did," while another article quotes someone as saying "This is one of the worst hotel fires in Monroe County history, and if you Google it, it's like it never happened... This is a major event and it seems like it's been forgotten and it absolutely shouldn't be that way." For whatever reason, this never really went beyond WP:NEWS after November and December 1978, either in the U.S. or Canada. Applying the same standard that we would if the fire had happened in 2008 and was, sad to say, ignored thereafter, it doesn't pass the notability test. Mandsford 17:24, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep or merge Per the sources in book publications I've added and recognition by the National Fire Agency as one of only several hotel fires in 70 years to kill 10 or more people. I think that just about qualifies it for notability myself given the book dcoumention on it not to mention the very breif discsison of it in a book on human engineering here. If it was a very low scale incident I doubt anybody would have heard of it to write about it in their book. It is covered in multiple books but admittedly it is hardly Great Fire of London... and I'm not convinced that covering such events as isolated incidents is worth a seperate article. Personally I think this information would be better in a List of (notable) hotel fires in the United States summarising those documented in that Fire Agency summary. Either way I think the existing info and sources are encyclopedic, I'd support a merge into an article about the History of hotel fires in the United States, that's the best way to use this material I think... ♦ Dr. Blofeld 22:01, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Merge or otherwise Delete - it doesn't appear to justify its own article and I would endorse the merge proposal by Dr. Blofeld. Velella ^{Velella Talk} 22:46, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia has long included an article on a 1983 explosion in Buffalo, New York that killed seven people: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Division_Street_explosion

Seems like a double standard to not include this one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.98.169.161 (talk) 23:06, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, I'd say this article is more notable than the other, which looks to fail WP:N and should really be prodded - The Bushranger _{Return fire}^{Flank speed} 00:40, 4 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 14:00, 4 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Merge. Merging (in much briefer form) into History of hotel fires in the United States and eventually to List of hotel fires in the United States is OK, or it could be merged into Greece (town), New York. A lot of the text article is padding at the moment to establish a notability that doesn't really exist, at least not enough for an independent article. Voceditenore (talk) 14:17, 4 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, exactly what I think, Its the sort of thing which is worth mentioning in a fire history article or history of Greece, New York but only briefly. I agree, it isn't notable enough for an independent article on it, unlike MGM Grand fire...♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:36, 4 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep clear keep, not a weak keep. Typically, we accept (or at least ought to accept) outside authoritative sources for determining the degree of importance, rather than analyze the evidence ourselves. This should especially true with NOT NEWS, where the criterion of long-lasting importance is concerned--such sources are the best ones to determine it. the only alternative is the personal views of whomever should happen to be interested in a given AfD discussion--that is an extremely weak criterion, & if there is anything better we ought to use it. If NFPA considers 10 to be a suitable cut-off for listing in the list of worst disasters, 10 it is. If they say 10, we have no basis for saying >10, except our individual personal inclinations. (myself, I have no fixed idea of where I personally think the line should be, so I go by the sources. if I did have a personal opinion of what ought to be important in this area, I think I would still find it necessary to go by the sources.) One excellent source like that is sufficient, as long as there is also enough material for an article, which there is. We have the rule that the GNG has been modified by NOT NEWS, as it certainly ought to be, for otherwise we would be wildly inclusive of the utterly unimportant. But the problem is that some of the key criteria in not news are totally non-objective and require guesswork. Consistency is a virtue in reference works, and we should be glad of any opportunity to find something consistent where we do not have to use our own guesswork or predilections. DGG ( talk ) 15:52, 4 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The sourcing clearly demonstrates that the topic is notable, being addressed in detail by multiple reliable and independent sources. The nomination is thus counterfactual. Colonel Warden (talk) 22:45, 4 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per the NFPA source currently in the article. 10 fatalities per incident is a rather high bar to set, and this particular event meets it. Jclemens (talk) 04:01, 5 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per DGG.4meter4 (talk) 18:40, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep or merge into History of hotel fires in the United States. The subject technically appears to meet WP:GNG, however, Wikipedia might be better served if the event were addressed in context of the larger article. Location (talk) 19:17, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 05:11, 17 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Lil' Love

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

No Reliable sources found; some sources I have found mainly relate to Alex Gaudino and Lil' Love only gets passing mentions. Also "Little Love" has only charted in the UK, and only for one week, no other chartings found. I don't think they pass General notability guideline. Mattg82 (talk) 01:46, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. -- Jclemens-public (talk) 04:15, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 02:21, 10 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, fails WP:N, thought WP:BAND does offer "Has had a single or album on any country's national music chart." as possible indicator of notablity, fails to meet "multiple, non-trivial, published works" which is the core of WP:N. As Alex is the only notable member the band does not meet "Is an ensemble which contains two or more independently notable musicians" of WP:BAND Jeepday (talk) 12:36, 11 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect/merge to Alex Gaudino. There is verifiable info but covering in Gaudinos article seems good enough until further coverage emerges. I object to deletion of this charting (wp:music) outfit. duffbeerforme (talk) 14:33, 16 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Courcelles 11:22, 10 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Nana to Kaoru

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Search for third party sources only comes up with a couple of trivial mentions related to changes in a manga magazine. No significant coverage by reliable, third-party sources found to pass WP:BK. OVA and live action adaptations have also received no coverage beyond the original announcement. —Farix (t | c) 01:33, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Anime and manga-related deletion discussions. -- —Farix (t | c) 01:33, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Although it pains me to say so, I have to agree with Farix here. There is insufficient third-party coverage for this series to warrant an entry in Wikipedia at the moment. That situation may change with time. Don't be put off reading Nana to Kaoru though... it's actually a rather good story. David Bailey (talk) 10:55, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand. The last AFD ended in delete, but someone forgot to delete it. Check the history of the article [4] and it shows the entire history is there. Did it get deleted? Some sort of bug? Did an administrator undelete it? Dream Focus 03:39, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It was missed. The decision to delete was made on 18 August 2010, but wasn't actioned. Xezbeth (an admin) removed the {AfDM} template on 28 Oct 2010 and then continued to edit it. David Bailey (talk) 11:17, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Courcelles 04:53, 17 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Haru Yo, Koi

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

No significant coverage by reliable, third-party sources. Google search turns up nothing relevant except for illegal scanlation websites. Fails WP:NOTE and WP:BK and author is likewise non-notable. This article was prodded before for similar reasons, but the first prod was removed by the article's creator. —Farix (t | c) 01:13, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Anime and manga-related deletion discussions. -- —Farix (t | c) 01:14, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 02:22, 10 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Series lasted for almost 4 years per My Anime List and is listed on Anime News Network but has no known press release, deletion would probably be favorable ηoian ‡orever ηew ‡rontiers 06:07, 10 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: CSE hits are mostly for other things. --Gwern (contribs) 18:28 10 December 2010 (GMT)
Delete - agree with the concerns by Nolan and Farix. Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 07:29, 14 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The references just are not there for this article. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 16:03, 16 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Courcelles 11:20, 10 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Tony Markellis

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Delete. No references after waiting for more than one year. WP:BURDEN is on originator, not on reviewing editors. Student7 (talk) 00:50, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Please also note also WP:BEFORE #9. --j⚛e decker ^talk 16:27, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. -- Jclemens-public (talk) 04:16, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as per dozens of available sources, five of which have been added. --j⚛e decker ^talk 16:25, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Joe Decker. Not appropriate to nominate just because its unreferenced under the relevant rules yadda yadda yadda. But I encourage nominator to help work through the unreferenced BLP backlog, whether via Wikipedia:Unreferenced BLP Rescue or elsewhere. Cheers!--Milowent • ^talkblp-r 17:32, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

@@ Line 11: / Line 11: @@
 __TOC__
 <!-- Add new entries to the TOP of the following list -->
+{{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/I know I have the best of time and space}}
 {{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Holiday Inn Fire 1978, Greece, New York}}
 {{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lil' Love}}