User talk:Eric Corbett

"It was reading the ultimate paragraph of this post: [1] that finally convinced me it was time to go, yes, Hans is quite right, I am stuck in a vicious circle and there was no likelihood of things improving."

— Extract from Giano's retirement statement

Wanna wordsmith (in US English)?

Hi Malleus, I'm working up Russell and Sigurd Varian for GA, want to hop over and take a whack at it? I'm still in the peer review stage, but my brain has fried and I need new eyes. Montanabw^(talk) 23:15, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

What a strange looking pair. There's a problem with ref #32 BTW. Malleus Fatuorum 23:55, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Bugging you again. We put Appaloosa up for TFA and doing so seems to have attracted a grammar troll who enjoys snarky edit summaries. Can you do another run-through that article (after seeing history and looking at diff of my last edit to previous edit to see what the fuss was about) and if you think some cleanup is needed, do your magic (in US English?) I think you helped us here when we put it up for FA too, but new eyes after some time is always helpful. Montanabw^(talk) 20:52, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

TPS here - fwiw, if you've attracted Yomangani you're lucky. He's far from a grammar troll. Make friends with him instead would be my advice. Truthkeeper (talk) 21:25, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

I've not looked at the article yet, and to be truthful I can't remember ever having looked at it, but as TK says, Yomangani is one of the good guys. I'll pop along later. Malleus Fatuorum 22:06, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Well, he had a brain fart on that particular article, dumped some stuff that should not have been removed, and couldn't resist an overdone snotnosed edit summary; one bit in question may need refinement in phrasing and style, but he missed the point entirely. The other one could have been fixed without the snark. We all have off days, but when you are rude also, it's fat on the fire for the people at the receiving end. And I'd still like Mal to take a peek. :-) Montanabw^(talk) 04:57, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Phallic architecture

"DYK that the Leaning Tower of Pisa in Pisa, Italy, dating from around 1173, has long suffered with erection problems....?. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:20, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Is that a real one, or did you make it up? Malleus Fatuorum 16:24, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Sure it is! I spotted it on User:Carptrash's user page in "my failed attempt to create a Phallic architecture article"; the irony is that he implied that he "had difficulty keeping it up" (the article that is). I thought he could use some wiki viagra to assist him in the process. Obviously the "Leaning Tower has long suffered from erection problems" is intended as a double entendre, but true nonetheless. It should stick as a legit article, my Phallus paintings in Bhutan article did. Its still in its early stages, I've asked Bgwhite if he can access any sources in JSTOR which could further improve it. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:29, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

WOW! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 16:36, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

• I can't believe the Washington Monument isn't listed there. Surely an oversight by the good doctor. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 16:40, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

The Washington Monument is the Jonah Falcon of phallic architecture, I had spotted it but it takes a long time to get that thing up and running on wikipedia!♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:48, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Keep it up, but please keep links from headings down in articles ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:51, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Hehe!♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:53, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

The fact that you could pull the Jonah Falcon article out of your memory to link here is worrisome. I will admit your choice of new articles is rather interesting. My fascination has always been on the feminine side of that equation, however, yet I can't think of any examples of Yonic architecture. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 23:58, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Worrying why? The fact that he was in a tabloid newspaper article I happened to read a few days ago. I didn't remember his name, I remembered his penis size. I googled 13.5 inch penis to retrieve the name here! And I only remembered the size because its um,, and it was only a few days ago I saw an article about it. I had heard of the guy previously of course but had pretty much forgotten until I saw it the other day.♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:15, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

There's always the Vagina Building. Malleus Fatuorum 00:06, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

This is why I come back to your talk page, Malleus: Every visit, I get to learn something new. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 15:20, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

Well Good Lord. DBaK (talk) 11:55, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

My valuable contribution-discovery re this topic: Condom, Gers. Ihardlythinkso (talk) 05:00, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Phallic architecture is coming on nicely. Encyclopedic enough? Naturally I placed the one which most resembles a hard-on as the chief image. The Ypsilanti Water Tower for some reason reminds me more of a roll on deodrant.♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:49, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Mootness

Dear Malleus, I was interested by this. I certainly agree that "settled" is not an improvement, but I did wonder if there is some problem with the word "moot" which as far as I recall can have somewhat different emphases between American and British English. Is it not something like in BrE it means more that it is up for debate, whereas in AmE the suggestion is more that it's not worth debating - that the debate is already void? Admittedly I may have imagined this in a drunken stupor or be confusing it with some odd variant of "tabling" things or something with a similar effect ... but if I am along the right lines I wondered if we should perhaps look for a wording which says exactly what it should in both Br and AmE and doesn't confuse anyone or frighten the horses? With thanks and best wishes DBaK (talk) 11:49, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

(tps) Otiose? Ning-ning (talk) 12:05, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

A perfectly cromulent word, but I wonder if "irrelevant" is better suited. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 17:19, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

"Moot" is a poor choice of word in that article anyway, but I don't know about any Br/Am English distinctions. Certainly the way the word "moot" is used on Wikipedia is very jarring, at least to me, although I may not be your typical Brit. To me, "moot" means "hypothetical", not "no longer relevant". Malleus Fatuorum 17:27, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Probably one of the words we should avoid using altogether, since it does mean something different in the US than the UK. Kind of like the old expression "knock me up"... Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 17:38, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

And "moot" is a Nordic word, meaning "meeting". Kiefer.Wolfowitz 18:06, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

The article says the Luftwaffe "did not espouse" attacks on civilians, then it says that official opposition became moot- that's a bit of a jump from "not espousing" to "opposing". If this "official opposition" to bombing civilians actually did exist, was there a racial basis to it, given that the Luftwaffe were previously bombing Spanish and Polish civilians deliberately? Ning-ning (talk) 18:38, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

... and subsequently bombing Russian civilians. Malleus Fatuorum 18:54, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Official Luftwaffe doctrine circa 1936 did indeed come out against "terror bombing" on principle, but did allow that it might become necessary as a retaliatory measure. Intothatdarkness 15:12, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

I think the Baedeker Blitz is clear evidence that the Luftwaffe had no compunction about terror bombing. Malleus Fatuorum 15:18, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Quite familiar with that. I was simply citing prewar doctrine position. On the whole the Luftwaffe didn't buy into the Douhet theory of breaking civilian morale from the air. Much of the Nazi leadership did, though. It was a case of politicians shaping operational doctrine. And the impetus for the Baedeker Blitz came from Hitler. Intothatdarkness 15:26, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Edward Pulsford GA review

Hi, thanks for reviewing this. I've left some responses on the review page. Frickeg (talk) 07:34, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks very much for your great review! Frickeg (talk) 02:22, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

A request for action

Hey, Malleus Fatuorum. Dennis Brown tells me that you are a fair person with integrity. I must say I am very surprised, for it is rare to find such a person in Wikipedia but I take Dennis Brown on his word. Now, you know how difficult it is to write an FA article. It is only logical to take Codename Lisa on her word that she has gone through a lot of trouble to bring Microsoft Security Essentials to the standard that is expected of the community; she even says she has taken the article to a pro. Please assume good faith, i.e. do not assume that she brought the article to a pro to belittle you.

I'd like to remind you that she never commented on you. (I did though; it was before Dennis Brown told me you have integrity.) She said certain emotional things when she thought all is lost but since they were not personal attacks, please cut the newcomer some slack. Fleet Command (talk) 12:46, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

I just replied on my page a couple of times, but I think that Lisa made some mistakes that she should address. I won't rehash my comments here, but Malleus might just read the totality of the comments on my talk page before replying. I'm hopeful that you all will work the issues out and that the article is able to reach FAC status, but the problem doesn't start nor end with Malleus. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 13:15, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Yeah. Well, you don't need to cut some slack unless there is something to ignore. But I actually think that comment on the professor thing was funny. From my experience, that outcome is expected, not just because the article was perfect but because of the person in question. Fleet Command (talk) 14:51, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

I continue to fail to understand why I ought to be expected to give the opinion of a linguistics professor on anything other than linguistics any more weight than I would give to the opinion of a car mechanic or a bricklayer. Malleus Fatuorum 15:03, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Who exactly expected you? Fleet Command (talk) 15:11, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Why are you persisting with this nonsense? I've made my position quite clear and nothing that's happened since has gone any way towards changing my mind. Goodbye. Malleus Fatuorum 15:17, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Malleus,

The article obviously should have had a serious peer review by a good copy editor before being nominated again. You did more than expected to help her.

You were very restrained and showed a lot of patience trying to help Lisa with improving the article.

Fleet Command's blue-linking basic policy and guidelines and calling your review disruptive was indeed best ignored. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 16:02, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Fleet, you are mistaken and are just reading Malleus wrong. If you observe Malleus over time, you will understand what I mean. Lisa has apologized and I believe she is very sincere, and it looks like she and Malleus are likely to work together to take a good article and hopefully put a little shine on it, to make it worthy of FAC. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 16:17, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Berners Street

If in doubt, always blame the cat reddit. ;) —Quiddity (talk) 20:18, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

That explains it, thanks. Malleus Fatuorum 20:21, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Main page appearance: Spanish conquest of Guatemala

This is a note to let the main editors of Spanish conquest of Guatemala know that the article will be appearing as today's featured article on September 21, 2012. You can view the TFA blurb at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/September 21, 2012. If you prefer that the article appear as TFA on a different date, or not at all, please ask featured article director Raul654 (talk · contribs) or his delegate Dabomb87 (talk · contribs), or start a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Today's featured article/requests. If the previous blurb needs tweaking, you might change it—following the instructions at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests/instructions. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. The blurb as it stands now is below:

The Spanish conquest of Guatemala was a conflict that formed a part of the Spanish colonization of the Americas within the territory of what became the modern country of Guatemala in Central America. The Maya kingdoms resisted integration into the Spanish Empire with such tenacity that their defeat took almost two centuries. Pedro de Alvarado arrived in Guatemala from the newly-conquered Mexico in early 1524, commanding a mixed force of Spanish conquistadors and native allies, mostly from Tlaxcala and Cholula. The Itza Maya and other lowland groups in the Petén Basin were first contacted by Hernán Cortés in 1525, but remained independent and hostile to the encroaching Spanish until 1697, when a concerted Spanish assault led by Martín de Urzúa y Arizmendi finally defeated the last independent Maya kingdom. The indigenous peoples of Guatemala lacked key elements of Old World technology such as a functional wheel, horses, steel and gunpowder; they were also extremely susceptible to Old World diseases, against which they had no resistance. (more...)

UcuchaBot (talk) 23:01, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Microsoft Security Essentials

Hi, Malleus

Well done, you overworked yourself. Great job. You remind of myself three month ago when I spent hours after hours reading sources one by one and checking them with the other FA reviewer who was very picky about details.

When I come back, I'll make sure I'll read your edits blow by blow but overall, I see some new synonyms in place (which are good), some sentences joined (which are good again) and I think I see a lot more hyphens (no comment on it yet). By the way, a sentence says "OPSWAT report found that". Kind of got my attention: Do report find things? I thought investigators find things and put them in reports. I'll check this with Corpus of Contemporary American English when I first get the chance.

Best regards,
Codename Lisa (talk) 00:50, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Well, reports contain findings, but I think we're getting there. Malleus Fatuorum 01:03, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Hello again, Malleus. I thought I saw everything but this proves me wrong: [2]. Are such requests valid? Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 20:41, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Reviewers can make whatever suggestions they like, so in that sense yes, it's perfectly valid. If you disagree with merging the Reception and Awards sections then just politely say so, and explain why. It's ultimately up to the FA delegates to decide on the merits of the suggestion/conditional support. Personally, I think Dmitrij D. Czarkoff has a good case, as the Awards section is pretty small. If I were in your position I'd rename the present "Reception" section "Reception and awards" and just remove the current "Awards" section header. Job done, no fuss, no hassle, nothing lost. The trick is to be strong, but to avoid being broken you need to bend with the wind. Malleus Fatuorum 20:55, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Hello, Malleus. Like you said, sometimes we have to bend with the wind. Both you and me worked a lot on the article and surely it would be waste if it was all for nothing. Let's temporarily put the alt text issue to bed by restoring the so-called "Wrong Version". After the FAC, we can call an RFC and deal with it the proper way. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 14:45, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Chris is utterly wrong in his (mis)understanding of the purpose of alt text, which is not a requirement for FAC anyway. By restoring the "wrong version" we would be doing a disservice to all our visually impaired users, and I can't agree to that. No RfC is required either now or later, as this issue has been thrashed out interminably elsewhere. The bottom line is that it doesn't matter what Chris's view of the alt text is, as it won't affect the FAC one way or the other. Malleus Fatuorum 14:53, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Hello again

I know that; I myself have some questions about the alt texts of the article and their rationale; but there is a risk that two things may happen: Fleet may pull his "My oppose stands" card and delegates may look at your discussion with Chris as "yet another dispute" and throw it out of the window. Please be patient. Some things need patience, order and proper course of action to be resolved. A consensus obtained appropriately solves a lot of things.

Best regards,

Codename Lisa (talk) 15:05, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

The consensus around alt texts was achieved some time ago. Whether Fleet maintains his oppose or not is of of no consequence, as it's without merit and will be ignored. Malleus Fatuorum 15:08, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Then I'll keep my fingers crossed. A lot is riding on this. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 15:31, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Nikkimaria's oppose is the only thing you've got to be concerned about now, as her opposition will carry some weight. Hopefully when she revisits she'll feel able to withdraw her oppose, and if she does I think you'll be home and dry. Malleus Fatuorum 15:35, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Congratulations, Malleus. We did it. You did. I promise you, the next article will be much better. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 22:32, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Congrats to you both. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 22:40, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

You did the hard work Lisa, I just pushed you in the right direction. I know pride comes before a fall, but I've never lost an FAC I've worked on, and only one GAN, which was quickly overturned at GAR, yet some people (not you) don't seem to hear what I'm telling them. Malleus Fatuorum 23:30, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Another query

Where might I find a template (??) thingie like the NHLE one but for Pastscape references? That is if such a thing exists. I am revising one of my earlier articles (offline) as on reading it through it is unbelievably awful. Sorry to be so technical.:-) J3Mrs (talk) 19:02, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

{{Cite PastScape}} might be what you're looking for. Failing that it wouldn't be too difficult to create a new template. Malleus Fatuorum 19:08, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

That looks like it. Will it need the separator= , and postscript= ? Thank you, I can never find anything useful.J3Mrs (talk) 19:36, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

To make the display consistent with {{citation}} you would, but it doesn't implement those parameters; hang on for 10 minutes and I'll update it. Malleus Fatuorum 20:22, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

... and there you go, done. Malleus Fatuorum 20:36, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

I tried it in List of mills in Wigan and for some strange reason it appeared in the text not in the refs. It could only happen to me. :-( J3Mrs (talk) 21:02, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

It's a regular {{cite}} template, so you have to bracket in with the ref tags, as in <ref>{{cite Pastscape |...}}</ref>. Malleus Fatuorum 21:09, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, my ignorance of these things knows no bounds. J3Mrs (talk) 21:20, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm just trying it for myself in your list; it's possible that I've broken the template. Be back shortly. Malleus Fatuorum 21:22, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

It looks ok to me...J3Mrs (talk) 21:27, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Indeed it does; for some reason it didn't work the first time I tried. Maybe another one of those caching problems. Malleus Fatuorum 21:31, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Reflections in the media

I have no idea why, when Malcolm said "What the fuck is this? Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Cunt"? in The Thick of It this weekend, I was reminded of .... Black Kite (talk) 19:34, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

I've obviously made the word my own so far as Wikipedia is concerned, yet I've only used it twice in five years. So far. Malleus Fatuorum 20:24, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Carl Sagan had never previously said "billions and billions" when it became the expression that popular culture associated with him first and foremost. He ended up taking ownership of it and even titled his last book Billions and Billions: Thoughts on Life and Death at the Brink of the Millennium. Funny how fiction becomes The Truth if it is repeated enough. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 00:29, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Just as Sherlock Holmes never said "Elementary my Dear Watson". Malleus Fatuorum 00:37, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

"Lead on, MacDuff" is another one. Pesky (talk) 06:14, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

And another classic that wasn't, "Play it again, Sam". Montanabw^(talk) 18:38, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

"Houston, we have a problem".--John (talk) 22:37, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

The City of Beautiful Nonsense (book)

I was stumbling around random articles and found that this wasn't even a redlink, which I fixed, and subsequently created a poor stub for, figuring it was better than nothing. Then it dawned on me that you might have an interest in it. As you know, this isn't my specialty and I get a bit lost, but I figured if you had the time, you might enjoy adding a paragraph or two to make it a proper stub. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 00:21, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

• This might sound odd, but maybe there is a DYK for it, as few best selling books have spawned both a silent movie and a sound movie. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 00:47, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

  I wouldn't bother with DYK, too much trouble for too little payback. I've never heard of the book, or the films. I'm very slow at writing literature articles though, witness The Coral Island, but I'll take a look. Malleus Fatuorum 01:05, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

  I'm betting it just needs a small plot summary and some minor stuff. It is so old, I don't think it will be easy to get that much info, but the author and the two movies are both UK, so I thought that might appeal to you as well. No obligation or rush, you just came to mind after I started it. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 01:15, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

  DYK has hidden rules for literature articles, not worth bothering with. Malleus Fatuorum 01:37, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

  Oh well, that isn't why I started it anyway. Looks like a tps has already jumped in and started helping, which is appreciated. Being 100 years old, I hit a brick wall when it came to getting a plot summary and found only one weak summary on the 1935 movie, being used on over 100 sites. Still, a stub is better than a red link, or in this case, no link at all. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 01:43, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

  I had no idea you were 100 years old Dennis. I must say, you've aged astonishingly well. --John (talk) 17:36, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

  Ok, the last thing I need is for my poor grammar to be pointed out on this particular talk page. ;) Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 23:37, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Questia

Hey Malleus, I just got my Questia account. Did you get one? I did a search for The Man in the Moone and found a couple of things, including an article by Poole, who has an essay cited in the article already. I can't see that essay right now but the titles are different, so I don't think it's a reprint (the article is from PQ, 1998, so it could be). Unfortunately Questia doesn't provide page numbers in the complete citation, and it's not a photographic copy of the article as it was published. I'll email it to you and then you can see for yourself. I'll see what else I can dig up; with real interesting things that have to be done thoroughly I'm very slow, and it's late already. Best, Drmies (talk) 04:07, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

• I might not be using Questia for long. I saved one article but the next one crashed my computer twice in a row, giving me all kinds of weird error messages. Drmies (talk) 04:17, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

  Thanks for the pdf, which arrived safely. I've had a look through Questia and I'm quite impressed; no weird crashing or anything like that, but quite a bit of stuff that might help me at last to finish The Coral Island – by "finish" I mean get it to GAN, which is the extent of my ambition for it. Then on to the The Man in the Moone, which we've probably got enough material on now to make a pretty good fist of it. The combination of public library access, Highbeam, and Questia is going to make things so much easier I think. Malleus Fatuorum 00:03, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Your free 1-year Questia online library account is approved ready

Good news! You are approved for access to 77,000 full-text books and 4 million journal, magazine, newspaper articles, and encyclopedia entries. Check your Wikipedia email!

1. Go to https://www.questia.com/specialoffer
2. Input your unique Offer ID and Promotional code. Click Continue. (Note that the activation codes are one-time use only and are case-sensitive).
3. Create your account by entering the requested information. (This is private and no one from Wikipedia will see it).
4. You'll then see the welcome page with your Login ID. (The account is now active for 1 year).

If you need help, please first ask Ocaasi at wikiocaasi@yahoo.com and, second, email QuestiaHelp@cengage.com along with your Offer ID and Promotional Code (subject: Wikipedia).

• A quick reminder about using the account: 1) try it out; 2) provide original citation information, in addition to linking to a Questia article; 3) avoid bare links to non-free Questia pages; 4) note "(subscription required)" in the citation, where appropriate. Examples are at WP:Questia/Citations.
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Thanks for helping make Wikipedia better. Enjoy your research! Cheers, Ocaasi EdwardsBot (talk) 05:09, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

• Well, that answers my question! Drmies (talk) 14:08, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

GA Review Carr Hill

Hi Malleus

Just wanted to post a couple of little things now that the GA review on this one has now closed (and I figured here is better than a completed review page).

Firstly, and contrary to your closing comment, I actually don't think you were being especially harsh. As it happens, I much prefer thorough GA reviews, because no-one but me ever adds a thing to my obscure, Gateshead-y articles so a fresh pair of eyes is always welcome because I tend not to pick up silly errors that I make. And I agree that the article is better for it, especially now that I have a reliable source for climate data. Additionally, I would eventually like to get at least one of these articles through WP:FAC, so a comprehensive GA review helps a lot.

Secondly, as regards our disagreement re:WP:UKCITIES. As you said, for the purposes of the review now concluded, the point was moot, but your reading of the guideline is genuinely new to me and isn't one I would have even considered to be honest. This is important to me as I tend to concentrate my wiki-efforts on articles like Carr Hill and I would like to know whether you are right to prevent my having the same discussion again in future. I am not a 'wiki-expert' – I concentrate mainly on editing and offering the occasional review – so I have no idea how I might be able to clarify this point, and wonder if you have any suggestions?

Thanks again... Meetthefeebles (talk) 16:05, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

I always tend to look at well-developed articles like Carr Hill – and it was well-developed – with an eye to FAC, otherwise GAN just becomes a rubber stamp, which I don't think is very productive. I also prefer to fix the easy things myself rather than clutter up the review, as you may have noticed. So far as our differing interpretations of WP:UKCITIES is concerned, I'm certainly not in any way trying to prevent you from having a similar discussion in the future; my comment was localised to this specific review. I'm not sure there's any general answer to your question though, maybe it's horses for courses, but has it never struck you as odd that an article such as Montpelier, Brighton has extensive coverage of church buildings without ever mentioning the religions of its residents? For me, that's a clear breach of GA criterion 3a, but no doubt other reviewers will have their own interpretations. So basically I have no right to stop you having whatever discussion you wish wherever you wish. If you go on to FAC though the rules change, and you have to satisfy all the reviewers, not just one old curmudgeon like me, which is quite a different game. Malleus Fatuorum 16:19, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Actually, it occurs to me that I may have misinterpreted your "... I would like to know whether you are right to prevent my having the same discussion again in future", when what you really meant was "I would like to know whether you are right, to prevent my having the same discussion again in future". If that's so, a good place to kick off the discussion would be WT:GAN. Malleus Fatuorum 16:25, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

The reason why it has never struck me as odd because I have never considered it a requirement of WP:GAN. The failure to include that information in my view would certainly preclude success at FAC (something I tend to know a lot about, annoyingly) but my reading of 'broad' precludes 'comprehensive'. As you say; perhaps it is horses for courses?

I am going to raise the issue at WT:GAN, simply to ensure that I don't end up crossing swords with a future reviewer– if it should be in, I'll include it in future articles– and also as I have dipped my hand into reviewing over the summer and it would help me provide better reviews I think. Meetthefeebles (talk) 16:47, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

GAN's "broadness" criteria obviously isn't well-defined, for obvious reasons. Should be an interesting discussion. Malleus Fatuorum 16:56, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

If I know an editor's keen, I'll try to give a article a big a shove as possible towards FAC....aaaah and I've now seen Sherriff Hill. I am reminded of a scene in Green Wing where they decide to do an operation in Geordie....but my accent would be atrocious I think...apart from "alreet" and "howay then".....Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:05, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

I did try to give a big shove; maybe the issue is whether I shoved too hard with this particular article. Reviewing, especially GA reviewing, is a pretty lonely and thankless place by and large, but all we can do is the best we can do, and I did the best I could. If that's not considered good enough then so be it. Malleus Fatuorum 05:10, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Well all I can say is that Sherriff Hill FAC will be mmarginally less lonely. I've left Meetthefeebles some stuff to do. I'd be intrigued to see what else you come up afterwards with as I do like reviewing villages and towns but not hugely familiar with it like plants, mushrooms and birds...Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:59, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

I hadn't realised that Sherriff Hill was at FAC. I seem to make almost as many enemies there as I did at WT:RFA; I expect that'll be the topic of my next arbitration case. :-) Malleus Fatuorum 14:31, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Ooh err, I hadn't realised until I read this and I've been up there weilding my pruning shears after it popped up on my watchlist. :-( J3Mrs (talk)

I expect I'll be doing a bit of pruning too. I notice immediately that there's nothing on climate ...". Malleus Fatuorum 15:02, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

... and I see you're not the only one with the pruning shears out. Hamiltonstone's been having a good go at it as well. On the face of it this nomination looks to have been a little premature. Malleus Fatuorum 15:05, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

And no Public services. It does need a really good copyedit — Preceding unsigned comment added by J3Mrs (talk • contribs)

It does. I'm a bit disappointed that nothing seems to have been learned from the Carr Hill GAN. To be brutally honest I wouldn't have passed Sherrifs Hill as a GA, so I've had to oppose its promotion. Maybe the work required can be done within whatever time remains at FAC, but it's getting towards the bottom of the queue now, so I'm dubious. Basically, it ought not to have been nominated in that state. I actually think that Carr Hill would stand a better chance at FAC. Malleus Fatuorum 15:34, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

To cut the editor a bit of slack, I was "precious" about my prose until I learned it was better to be precise but I was lucky in that it was frequently improved by an expert, and though I'm still incredibly sloppy, I do try to keep a simple past tense and use as few words as possible. I'm working on another of my "masterpieces". The important thing is learning the lesson not carrying on regardless. J3Mrs (talk) 15:46, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm lucky I guess, in that I've always found writing easy; maybe a consequence of having read so voraciously as a kid. But the problem with Sheriff Hill isn't just the prose, there's far too much detail on stuff that just doesn't matter at all, unless you're writing a tourist guide I suppose. Malleus Fatuorum 15:54, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

I've been there too! I've removed some things that were plain wrong too, about the turnpike and the colliery. (see edit summaries) I tried to copyedit it before but some just got re-added in a different way.J3Mrs (talk) 16:01, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Wow. Have just read this. Wow. Meetthefeebles (talk) 00:43, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

I guarantee that your Sheriff Hill article has got no chance at FAC until you start to listen, and take on board what you're being told. Malleus Fatuorum 01:06, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Beatles RfC

Hello Malleus Fatuorum; this message is to inform you that there is currently a public poll to determine whether to capitalize the definite article ("the") when mentioning the band "THE BEATLES" mid-sentence. As you've previously participated either here, here, or here, your input would be appreciated. Thank you for your time. For the mediators. ~ GabeMc ^{(talk|contribs)} 22:52, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for participating. It looks like you forgot to sign your post so you may want to go back and do that. Cheers! ~ GabeMc ^{(talk|contribs)} 23:39, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Duh! Malleus Fatuorum 23:52, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Oh gawd, is that STILL going on? Has someone nominated it for the lamest WP editing dispute in the entire history of the encyclopeida? ARRRGGGHHHH!!!! Montanabw^(talk) 17:18, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

It's already there. --John (talk) 17:34, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

The competition would be tough, but I'd nominate this as the lamest WP editing dispute of recent times. Malleus Fatuorum 17:37, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Hmmm, perhaps there needs to be a distinction between "stupid" (IT) and "silly" (T/the) Except debating that would also be extremely lame. SHEESH! Montanabw^(talk) 17:46, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Ahem

England? I think you meant Britain, ya big sassenach! --John (talk) 18:40, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

I think the source says England, and I didn't really question it; probably written by an American. And I'll have you know that my mother is Scottish, so I'm only half a sassenach. Malleus Fatuorum 18:43, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

To be fair, the relationships between Scotland, England, the United Kingdom and Great Britain are somewhat unusual and difficult for foreigners to understand. I know, and I'm sure your Scottish half is your good half. Ever read Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde? --John (talk) 18:50, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

To say nothing of Wales and Ireland... =:-O Montanabw^(talk) 21:24, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

One would think this would be an unusual place to forget about Wales.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 22:49, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

And so civility rears its ugly head again

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Flat Bastion Road....♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:20, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

• Well, for the outside reviewer your asshole kind of flew in out of nowhere. Drmies (talk) 12:33, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

I suggest you read the talk pages of both Vej and Fram. Its funny how when Malleus complains about the civil expectations and calls somebody something he has tens of people here supporting him but when it happens to me nobody not even Malleus can utter a word!♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:35, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

What was there for me to utter a word about? I saw nothing untowards. But as Drmies points out, to anyone without the background your comment did appear to materialise out of thin air. Malleus Fatuorum 13:26, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Dr. Blofeld,

You should be happy that everybody at the post-PROD deletion discussion is supporting you, and saving you time.

Sincerely, Kiefer "My middle name is fucking civility" Wolfowitz Kiefer.Wolfowitz 14:31, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Dunno Malleus, I was hoping perhaps you'd say you've also encountered the same sort of lordly inconsiderate behaviour from Fram, I know Rich Farmbrough has.. Maybe you are on good terms?♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:58, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Fram was the one who blocked me for complaining about the double standard of blocking Lihaas for writing "bitching and moaning" while simultaneously letting stand the smearing of Lihaas as a "national socialist". None of the blocking heads retracted their smears or noted Lihaas's explanation of his politics, of course. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 15:36, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

On good terms? Hardly. But if I were an admin it would be you I was looking closely at, as your "asshole" comment appeared to come from nowhere. Malleus Fatuorum 17:15, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

It did seem surprisingly out of character. Othertimes, Dr. B. has been one of the most pleasant personalities here. Sometimes when I have written something harsher than usual, an hour or so later I have realized that I'd been writing too long because back pain was then apparent, or that I had a fever or cold coming on.

All things in moderation, even moderation. Speaking of "assholes", has anybody seen this discussion of voter-identification/suppression? Kiefer.Wolfowitz 18:16, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Extraordinary. Is that for real? Malleus Fatuorum 18:32, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

The voter supression is the only way the Republicans have a chance, at least against Obama. Demographics and tolerance work against them, the same way that demographics and resentment worked against Democrats as predicted by Kevin Philips's The Emerging Republican Majority; The Emerging Democratic Majority from a few years ago is still a good read.

You should look at the gerrymandering of recent years to see nakedly partisan hijacking of the electoral process. Such voter supression efforts have a long history. In New York State, the Republicans passed a law long ago that requires New York City to have a uniformed officer at every polling place---only NYC. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 20:02, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

I don't think anyone in the rest of the world has much faith in the American electoral system since that chads fiasco in Florida. The photo ID thing is interesting though. I have an old-style driving licence, no photo, and to "upgrade" to a photo licence costs (from memory) £45. Why should I pay that? But when I went recently to collect a parcel from UPS I was asked to produce some photo ID, which I don't have. My recently expired passport wasn't good enough, so I'm now forced to spend £45 for what exactly? ID cards by the back door? Malleus Fatuorum 20:23, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps Mrs. Thatcher already had a stroke when she pushed for the poll-tax, something so regressive that it shocked Conservatives.

Well, Billy Bragg once urged American voters to remember that they elected the President not only of the USA but also of the world, and so they should be more responsible. The only response I remember was David Letterman asking him if he'd been in Indiana. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 20:40, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Interesting. Didn't have him down as a Sarek blocking admin but whenever there is a content "scandal"/hoo-haa it's usually him responding..♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:57, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Well, Sarek does a tremendous job blocking vandals, and when he intervenes as an extremist (which is a small part of his use of tools) he does so as a predictable extremist and he doesn't whine when his blocks are reduced.

Fram doesn't strike me as insane, but sometimes his judgment needs greater inspiration, e.g., with the "Malley baiting" incident where he confessed succumbing to the temptation to write something to see Malleus's reaction....

I would just worry about something else, unless you think that there may be hounding, which I don't think you've said. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 16:15, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Yes I agree, Sarek does do a lot good work blocking vandals but he can be a blocking extremist and seem trigger happy. I didn't say Fram was insane, but he does seem heavy handed in his approach and stubborn and seems to have little regard for the feelings of editors.♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:26, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Yes Kiefer that's generally true, but not out of character; as Malleus might remember, I can be particularly nasty on occasion.. I think he still resents me for that one! And I'll happily admit I was wrong about him... I'm a Taurus star sign which might explain it better, depends on whether you believe that stuff. I used to think it was rubbish but my May 4 entry is virtually exactly true.. The No Asshole Rule should be made one of wikipedia's core rules...♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:52, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

You might be surprised to learn how short my memory is for that kind of stuff. I'd completely forgotten about Fram's baiting until KW reminded me of it for instance, and I've only got the faintest glimmer of what we might have fallen out over. Was it what I called your "micro-stubs"? But as my mother says, life's too short to bugger about. Malleus Fatuorum 19:01, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

I was more than a little surprised by your "Maybe you are on good terms" comment above, and I came back having decided to give you a piece of my mind (I have lots to spare). If you seriously believe that I'm afraid of falling out with anyone, or afraid to call it as I see it, then you and I are living on different planets. Malleus Fatuorum 19:05, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Glad to hear it, something like that Malleus LOL. I didn't think you'd be on good terms given what he does its about as "I'm an admin I'm superior to you" approach as you can get, I was treading carefully. I was surprised that Andy the Grump was very well liked here, I must have missed something, so I wondered if Fram was too... Wikipedia:The No Asshole Rule is now up and running. It might take a certain type of individual itself who might try to delete it.♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:09, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

I had a "couple" of beers this afternoon, so maybe I'm not operating entirely at peak efficiency, but what makes you believe that Andy is "well liked" here? I hardly know who he is. Malleus Fatuorum 19:22, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Kiefer said he was a great editor and Dennis also implied that you all really like him...♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:33, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Kiefer may well be right, but I've hardly encountered Andy to the best of my knowledge. Malleus Fatuorum 19:43, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

The only editors who get special consideration from me are those I've collaborated on an article with. I won't embarrass them by naming them, but they obviously know who they are and Andy isn't one of them. Maybe he will be one day, who knows, but you never really get to know an editor until you try and work together. Malleus Fatuorum 19:48, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Andy does more work than the rest of Wikipedia on enforcing the BLP policy, and thus he can be forgiven venial sins. Without Andy, Wikipedia would have continued to have published the names of women who have complained that somebody raped or sexually molested them, for example. When he expresses irritation (perhaps not complying with the Barney and Friends policies of WP), he has good reason, in my experience, and deserves some slack. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 19:55, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

I was considering starting Phallic worship, the cult of Priapus, the biggus diccus of ancient Rome. JSTOR had a wealth of material on it from what I saw. Women still worshiped phallic objects in 18th century Sicily. Wonder what he'd think. Or maybe Hohle phallus, the Bruce Forsyth Brucie "Boner" of the phallus world, almost as old as he is at 28,000 years. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:09, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

How about dildos in English literature: Donne had the line "out do dildos" somewhere. "Do" has a long history, as in "do me". Kiefer.Wolfowitz 20:31, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

I don't doubt you're right Kiefer, but as I very rarely get involved with BLPs I wouldn't know. Malleus Fatuorum 20:19, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Veni, vidi, vici

I learnt today that editor is a Latin word with two meanings; a sponsor of gladiatorial games, or the exuder of smells. Parrot of Doom 19:25, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

That just seemed so unlikely that I had to check with the OED. The first seems likely true, as in editor ludorum, but no mention of an "exuder of smells". Are you sure you got this from a reliable source, or did it come from a fellow in a pub? Malleus Fatuorum 20:00, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

From Fortean Times, which tends to cite most of its stories, no matter how unbelievable they may be. The piece was written by Barry Baldwin. Parrot of Doom 20:36, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm inclined to believe it's probably true in that case; the Fortean Times deals with whacky subjects, but it seems to do it in a relatively responsible way. Malleus Fatuorum 22:03, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Franz Kafka PR

I've taken a stab at the translation section. Pls review. PumpkinSky talk 22:00, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Brian's back on the job so you don't need me, not yet anyway. I've done a bit too much reviewing lately and I'd like to get back to writing. How Brian finds the energy and motivation to do what he does at PR is quite beyond me. Malleus Fatuorum 23:09, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

I really like your edits, they are superb. If you have the time to finish, great, if not, that's ok too, best wishes in your real life and wiki endeavors. Thanks for helping. PumpkinSky talk 01:41, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

You and I both know ... well, you know. Malleus Fatuorum 01:51, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

ANI

Hello. There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.

About time they found something else to talk about other than me. Malleus Fatuorum 01:50, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Anyone wondering why there's a lack of reviewers could do worse than read this dishonest nonsense. Why should anyone be expected to put up with that? Malleus Fatuorum 04:01, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

At least you didn't get blocked and then unblocked and blah blah. The kids are watching TV, I made some coffee, it's bright and nice in Florida at 7:30 AM: I'm going to have another look at the JSTOR results for your adventure. Drmies (talk) 12:37, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

My first preview comment had a couple of lines defending Malleus, and then I realized he didn't do anything that needed defending, so I left them out. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 13:17, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

And how many times has that happened? I'm of the opinion that anyone making an ANI report about me should receive an automatic block. Who's with me comrades? Malleus Fatuorum 18:26, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

It's a trap! You'll be tormenting people just to get them to report you. After all, everyone knows what kind of a person you are based on how many times you've been to ANI... ;-) Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 18:45, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Ah, you've seen through my dastardly plan. The quote at the top of this page tells its own story: "It was reading the ultimate paragraph of this post that finally convinced me it was time to go, yes, Hans is quite right, I am stuck in a vicious circle and there was no likelihood of things improving." Mind you the tense mismatch there is rather jarring to a pedant such as myself. Malleus Fatuorum 18:54, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

FWIW, your efforts in helping Lisa earned you a page worth of gold stars in my book. It is a shame that too few people notice those things, and only focus on the imaginary negatives. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 19:52, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm quite used to that by now. Lisa's evident delight at getting that little gold star is its own reward, and now she knows how it's done I'm sure she'll feel confident to go on and do it again. And maybe even help others to do it as well. That comment of Fleet command's about me being jealous and envious because all of "my" FAs are basically crap still rankles a bit though. Good job he and I aren't sitting in the same pub. Malleus Fatuorum 19:57, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Fleet command couldn't have written something that stupid sincerely. He must have been amusing himself by saying something ridiculous. Maybe he's a comic account parodying certain editors....? Perhaps he's a fabrication that will make a book on Wikipedia more interesting? Sometimes, life seems like a sitcom. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 20:44, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Obviously I know that editors such as Fleet and Fram go out of their way to try and wind me up, but they ought not to be surprised or go running to Mummy when they get what they deserve. Malleus Fatuorum 21:08, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Use of inflation template for capital sums...

Malleus, I've left you a note at Talk:Manchester Ship Canal. Your last change on the article was labelled "don't talk wet" but I can't quite see how this links to the use of the CPI inflation template! (other than I guess you disagree). Hchc2009 (talk) 14:20, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

I've had this discussion several times before at FAC. I'll explain on the talk page, but basically I don't approve of you simply removing the material instead of replacing it with whatever you believe to be a better conversion. Malleus Fatuorum 18:23, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Cheers. Academics prefer a share of GDP measure for evaluating capita projects (which is why the inflation template labels its use for capital projects as Original Research); I'm happy to insert a figure for that into the article backed by a cited economist source. Hchc2009 (talk) 19:03, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm perfectly happy for you to do that. I can't now recall why I/we chose the CPI as the conversion basis; it may have been the fact that following Adamson's vision the capital was to be raised from the working people, or that the essential funding came from Manchester's rates, or it may even be that we just didn't think about it all. Malleus Fatuorum 19:14, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Later on, it turns out the article uses GDP deflation as well for the same calculation, so I've updated the figure for 2011 and inserted up the top as well. The footnote duplicates as a result (you'll see what I mean), but I don't think there's a way of deduping with that format - I had a similar problem with another article. Should look okay though. Hchc2009 (talk) 19:16, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Nicely deduped! Hchc2009 (talk) 19:36, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

You'd be amazed at what I can do. ;-) Malleus Fatuorum 19:37, 22 September 2012 (UTC)