Talk:Mahdi

This topic should be renamed Imam Mehdi because he is a very revered and respected personality. Ch Jameel 26 April 2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by ChJameel (talk • contribs) 02:28, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Section of Twelver View in the wrong place

There was a section on the Twelver Shi'ite View of The Mahdi in an inappropriate section: "In Shia Islam, the Mahdi is believed to be the Twelfth Imam, Muhammad al-Mahdi, whose return from occultation will be the return of the Mahdi.

I moved it to the Twelver Section, unfourtunately I believe can safely be removed as it seems to be redundant, not doing it because there is reference attached. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 105.236.78.203 (talk) 00:12, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Possible vandalism in portents section

I don't profess to be an editor, but that second list of portents is extremely dubious. Examples include "Music will emanate from the pockets in peoples clothing." and "People will hold devices on the glass surface of which they will be able to see and talk to people far away." I would just fix it myself, but I don't want to step on anyone's toes. Festus Mcracken 23:53, 26 January 2012 (UTC) And there isn't a single proper reference/citation in this entire section, or in some other parts of this article.Costesseyboy (talk) 00:33, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

I went ahead and removed it a few days ago, but that was undone by an IP. So I'm leaving a message here before I attempt to remove it again tomorrow, once again in case I'm stepping on toes. I don't really have an interest in Islam or this article, but that stuff was pretty obvious as vandalism Festus Mcracken 03:45, 2 February 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Festus Mcracken (talk • contribs)

The book "Nawaib Dahoor Alaim Zuhoor" has no other reference on the WWW other than citations to Wikipedia. I call vandalism on all portents other than the natural ones and that the book “Nawaib Dahoor Alaim Zuhoor" is bogus. ::cybergrunt:: (talk) 07:20, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Traditions

The See Also link Traditions about Mahdi redirects to here, and there's no such section.

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The portion pertaining to the Mahdi not being in Sahih Muslim is inaccurate.

Here is a reference:

Abu Nadra reported:" We were in the company of Jabir b. 'Abdulldh that he said it may happen that the people of Iraq may not send their qafiz and dirhams (their measures of food stuff and their money). We said: Who would be respolisible for it? He said: The non_Arabs would prevt them. He again said: There is the possibility that the people of Syria may not send their dinar and mudd. We said: Who would be responsible for it? He said This prevention would be made by the Romans. He (Jabir b. Abdullab) kept quiet for a while and then reported Allah', s Messengdt (may peas be upon him) having said There would be a caliph in the last (period) of my Ummah who would freely give handfuls of wealth to thd people wiothout counting it. I said to Abu Nadra and Abu al-'Ala: DO you mean 'Umarb. 'Abd al-Aziz? They said: No (he would be Imam Mahdi.).

- Sahih Muslim Book 041, Number 6961

Source: University of California Website [1]

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I replaced the following text from the article with a sentence about the dispute, based on sites arising from [2], such as [3], which I expect are also disputed.

This has only happened once when Mirza Ghulam Ahmad announced that he was the Promised Messias and Mahdi. The eclipses that took place when he made his announcement were seen all over the world.

The previous text was:

This has never happened before in history [as of Jumaada al-awal 1424 AH / July 2003 CE]. Only the year 2005 stands out uniquely when a Solar and Lunar eclipse would both occur during the month of Ramadan and these eclipse be visible from Middle East and Arabia.

Perhaps someone else can incorporate the various beliefs about the eclipses in a verifiable and NPOV manner ...? -- Zigger 09:49, 2004 Jul 3 (UTC)

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Does this sound wrong to anyone else? :

'In reality, Al-Mahdi will be an Imam and a Caliph, among other Caliphs who rule Muslims with justice. ' In reality? I'm not sure, but it seems this is arguing for one belief against another, which un-encyclopedic at least, and not NPOV. Isn't it? I'm not sure I want to rework it (and other text in this article that seems to me similarly biased) because I am so unfamiliar with the subject matter, but "in reality" struck me as particularly odd, since about 5 billion people in the world (assuming Muslims are still about 1 billion) are not Muslims and don't consider anything about Mahdi to be "reality." As I said, Iim too unsure to take action, but I wanted to bring this to the attention of anyone better equipped to improve it.165.176.123.2 16:53, 11 January 2007 (UTC) --- The comment about occultation in Birth of the Mahdi (Shia Sources) confuses me. Occultation as I understand it is a solely astronomical phenomenon, unless used metaphorically. I'm assuming it's the latter, which I still wouldn't understand. Some clarifacation would help the unexperienced user such as myself. Thanks.

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Question About Islamic beliefs

According to this article, it says muslims believe Jesus is God's savior. I was under the immpresion this was the Christian doctrine and that Muslims beleve he is only a phrophet of God, and the messiah has not yet appeared. I'm not a religious scholar, though, so ill refrain from editing this.

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There is only one Messiah in the Quran.

Quran 3:45 PICKTHAL: (And remember) when the angels said: O Mary! Lo! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a word from him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, illustrious in the world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (unto Allah).

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It should be noted that, in other sections here and, in Islam in general, there is a huge debate about the supposed inadequacies of the the Picthal translation. Many muslims I know seem to find it is too much like the translators are trying to unify the christian Bible with the Quran rather than give an accurate translation. All in all I'd say that Picthal is in dispute and you'll have to verify it with other translations.

Jesus (`Isa) is masih مسيح in Islamic terminology, but Islamic "masih" does not have all the same meanings as English "Messiah". AnonMoos 21:17, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

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Qur'ān 3:45: "Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah." - Yusuf Ali translation

I personally find the translation here annoying. Since Abdullah Yusuf Ali died in 1953 there was no reason for him to translate the Qur'an into English with the language of King James -- except to make it "sound" more scriptural. This was the same annoying nonsense employed by the Mormon founder Joseph Smith. Danwaggoner (talk) 05:39, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Note that the word used for masih مسيح in the translation is 'Christ'. Ojii-san 11:07, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Non Arabic speaking Muslims are encouraged to read as many different translations of the Quran as possible, this is because it is accepted by every Muslim I ever spoke to that The Quran CANNOT be translated 100% correctly. This is confirmed by arabic and english speaking Muslims. I looked at three different translations of Qur'an 3:45 and there all the same. Although it must be said that the pickthall translation is considered one of the worst translations. The archaic language of the translations is not trying to sound scriptual it is a more accurate rendering of the arabic. Again this is confirmed by arabic/english speakers. also if you consider that that is the way people spoke back then, thee, thou, hither, thither, the archaic language make more sense to the modern mind. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.99.67.72 (talk) 03:54, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Does this rewording of the Ahmadi claims help the NPOV any?

"According to the Ahmaddiya movement, one of the signs which will indicate the emergence of al-Mahdi will be that in the month of Ramadan prior to his emergence two eclipses will occur, one of the sun and one of the moon, both being visible from the Middle East and Arabia. These signs are said to have been visible right after the claim of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad to be the Promised Messiah and Mahdi, and are supposed to happen again during Ramadan AH 1426 (roughly October 2005 CE). These claims are disputed by many non-Ahmadi Muslims." (My recent attempt toward an NPOV here.)

It seems to me (a non-Muslim) that we should try to include "variant" positions on the Mahdi in Wikipedia, as different doctrines concerning the Messiah are addressed in that article. I think too that maybe the layout of this article should be changed, adding a "non-Sunni and non-Shia" section that the Ahmadi claims would be fit into. (Am I correct that the Ahmadiyya are generally thought of as being neither Sunni nor Shi'ite?)

To further the general appearance of coherence as well, I would also remove the next sentence ("The title has been claimed by various individuals in history[...]") to the "People who saw themselves as Mahdi" section and rework that.

Or maybe it'd be better to note that "The Ahmadiyya Muslim Community has other doctrines and predictions concerning the Mahdi" and for that off into another article entirely (something like "The Mahdi in the Ahmadi tradition")? Maybe the hypertextish nature of Wikipedia can be employed to good advantage here too?

I put the Ahmaddiyah view of the Mahdi in it's own section. The Ahmadiyya movement is a very small one among worldwide Muslims, but if you want to include their view of the mahdi, I do not think there is a problem with it. However, it should be seperate from the Sunni view as most Sunnis do not view the Ahmadiyya movement as a Muslim one. Thus, I have created a new section for it within the article, and removed the NPOV notice. DigiBullet 20:41, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

features of al-Mahdi

I think it would be nice if someone knowledgable quote books of hadith for this and possibly references to hadith books online (or, is there wikisource Bukhari at least?) 18:41, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

  There are certainly hadith books online, 
  even in english translation (see the USC 
  collection in hadith, but as we mentioned 
  in the article, the Mahdi doesn't appear in 
  Bukhari or Muslim, only in the later collections--jackbrown

Do you think the present Sunnis are the real Muslims ??? No they also belivers of non declared false Mahdis that’s why sunnies devided into many sects. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.173.32.171 (talk) 04:37, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Quran or Hadith?

Can someone confirm if the Mahdi is mentioned only in the Hadiths, or is he also specified in the Quran? If so where? mpa

The word Mahdi does not occur in the Qur'an, though the related participle Muhtadin does... AnonMoos 21:17, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Strangely enough, I'm having a hard time finding it in Hadith either. The same goes for Qa'im. Peter Deer (talk) 18:55, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Mahdi Menstioned in Quran and Hadith

Mahdi is the Title "The Guided One" but his name is Mohammed, the name Mohammed is found in the Quran as well as Hadith, this opens new doors for thought, an article with regards to the Ark of the Covenant and the Imam Mahdi Prophecy by Al-Faarooq can be found on site.

Reference: United Muslim Nations International —Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.202.5.104 (talk) 10:24, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

So just like We find name Muhammad in Quran, we find the name of other Prophets aswell. Why don't we start believing in many other personalities with the name Jesus or Mosis?. Do you mean to say that Qura'n did'nt mean specific and clear? Is this the Kitaab e Mobeem in your view when you say Quran could have described Mahdi with the Name Muhammad??? People like you have distorted Quran's image by digging out whatevr you want from it... May Allah guide us all —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.153.70.216 (talk) 05:53, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Messiah

I know the Mahdi will be the messiah in the general "redeemer" sense, but THE Messiah was Jesus according to the Qur'an. Christians think that Muslims think that he wasn't, and they're wrong. So avoid the confusion and don't use the word messiah in the opening line. Cunado19 00:03, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Isnt the current context specifiying "in the redeemer sense"? If we dont have it there we should have it later on in the article. freestylefrappe 01:36, July 26, 2005 (UTC)

Which current context? I just changed the opening paragraph to take out the word "messiah". I tried to keep the messiah meaning but without using the word. I agree later in the article is fine. I was just making a big deal about the opening part cause a lot of people won't read past that. Cunado19 04:52, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

In Islamic terminology, Jesus is called masih مسيح , but Islamic "masih" does not have all the same meanings as English "Messiah", so the word "messiah" should probably be avoided in most contexts of discussing Islam... AnonMoos 21:17, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Well the dictionary will have two meanings, one is THE Messiah of the Jews, and the other is...

• any expected deliverer
• a professed or accepted leader of some hope or cause
• One who is anticipated as, regarded as, or professes to be a savior or liberator.

So in Islam, Jesus is regarded as THE Messiah of the Jews, Moses was a Messiah-figure of the Hebrews, Jesus is again the Messiah of the Christians (second coming), and at the same time the Mahdi is the Messiah of Islam, so it's not wrong to call him that. But it gives the impression that Jesus wasn't the Messiah of the Jews, because Christians have lost the other meaning of the word. Why are we arguing? The article is fine right now. It's also covered on the Messiah page. Cuñado - Talk 01:51, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

In Biblical Hebrew, mashiaH meant "annointed one" and referred to some kings and priests. In Christianity and post-Biblical Judaism, "messiah" has very highly specific meanings, which mean that the word shouldn't normally be used as in a vaguely generic way in the discussion of non-Jewish and non-Christian religions -- and especially not in the discussion of Islam, where there is likely to be confusion between the different meanings of Arabic masiiH and English "messiah". AnonMoos 04:18, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Agreed. Cuñado - Talk

Anonmoos is completely wrong The messiah(annointed one) whether you are Jewish, Christian or Muslim refers to Jesus ( Isa in arabic )and never the Mahdi who will fight AL masih ad dajjal(false messiah) until Jesus/Isa comes to kill him an event yet to take place and preceded by certain signs which clearly invalidate all previous claims of people to be either jesus/isa or the mahdi(the rightly guided) One of those signs is the sea of Galilee will dry up so we have some time to go yet — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.99.67.72 (talk) 04:15, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Tense

An easy to fix, but prevalent problem with this article, is the use of "to be" or "will be". All wikipedia articles are supposed to be done in present tense. freestylefrappe 02:22, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

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Isn't that because the article talks about things that are expected to happen in the future? Ojii-san 11:09, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

No. freestylefrappe 00:34, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

"All Wikipedia articles are supposed to be done in the present tense"? Eh? How, then, do we write about the Battle of Hastings, or the Big Bang, or the 1996 US presidential election, all of which -- as far as I know -- happened in the past and have finished? 132.185.240.120 12:04, 29 January 2007 (UTC) Andrew Craig

Picture

Please stop adding that strange picture with the strange caption. If it is related then it needs some explanation. Cuñado - Talk 18:05, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Why is it a strange picture? I can fix the caption. The person was a follower of Mahdi. — BRIAN0918 • 2005-11-1 18:19

The Mahdi is not a person. The Mahdi is an idea of a forthcoming individual, like the return of Jesus in Christianity. Some people have claimed to be the Mahdi, and if that person is a follower of one of those beliefs, he should be noted as such, and not a follower of "Mahdi". Cuñado - Talk 03:32, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

So why not fix that, rather than just deleting the whole thing? That makes just as little sense. — BRIAN0918 • 2005-11-2 03:38

I'm not responsible for cleaning up nonsense.Cuñado - Talk 04:09, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Prophecy fulfilled?

So Baghdad and Iraq will be swallowed up when the Mahdi comes? Hasn't that happened recently? Why haven't I heard of any Shi'ites suggesting that this is a sign? — Gulliver ✉ 01:39, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Christian belief?

I for one would like to remove the link which leads to Jerry Robinson's article on the Mahdi. He only speaks for right-wing, radicalist American Christians, and therefore his view cannot be defined as the sole Christian perception of Mahdi prophecy. Unless we can find any other Christian viewpoints from numerous other Christian demoninations (including Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy etc) I will delete the link myself, or at the very least have the page reported. Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia after all, not somewhere for lunatic fringes to promote their ideologies. Iwan Berry 17:48, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

The link should remain. It is not a lunatic fringe. If necessary add a description that it is a view of Christians who hold a futurist echatological view. ^rossnixon 22:32, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

It is hate speech designed specifically to inflame the passions of religious extremists. The interpretation has absolutely no basis in traditional Christian belief, but instead exemplifies very recent refiguring of scripture, which (as can be seen from the absurd Bible code exegesis hoax) can be twisted and misrepresented to apparently refer to anyone or anything the speaker would like to denigrate. Keep this POV nonsense in the relevant articles, please. — JEREMY 00:53, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Not hate speech. It reflects dispensationalism as taught by Darby and many evangelical groups since 1827. I do not agree with Bible Codes. ^rossnixon 10:01, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

"Reflects" sounds more than a little weasel-wordish to me. Identification of Revelation's characters with figures from Islamic eschatology is a recent phenomenon with little support and no traditional basis. You repeated insistence on linking to this ignorant, valueless material amounts to a political statement, equivalent to repetitively cross-linking George W. Bush to Adolph Hitler, and could be interpreted as deliberate vandalism. Wikipedia is designed to promote understanding, not hatemongering fanaticism. — JEREMY 11:45, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree that the identification is a recent phenomenon. But this is due to recent statements by shia leaders (eg the 7 years rule) that makes the match-up more convincing. I agree that this is a minority Christian view; and that we need a major Christian view added to balance it. But this does not mean we need to remove minor views entirely. Wikipedia is for all' relevant information; not just censored, sanitized, politically-correct ones. ^rossnixon 20:01, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

"[M]ake the match-up more convincing" sounds like propaganda, not belief. There is no need for any Christian viewpoints in an article on an obscure mythological figure in Islam unless those viewpoints are held by other than a tiny minority, and a body of analysis exists within the Christian tradition (rather than merely the farcical conspiracy-theory eschatology of individuals with no academic or journalistic credibility whatsoever, and an openly biased agenda antithetic to the subject matter). There is no censorship or "political correctness" involved here: Wikipedia is indeed for all relevant information; it's just that the link you would like to add is entirely irrelevant. — JEREMY 03:44, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

I will see if I can find a more scholarly link. Mahdi enthusiasts should be allowed to know how closely their expected leader matches the antichrist in a Christian view. This view was popularised by Hal Lindsay in about 1970; and I expect is the view of Southern Baptists, Pentecostalists, Brethren and many other groups. ^rossnixon 09:39, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

In my opinion Mulla Umar leader of Taliban is the one eyed Dajjal(anti Christ) that cannot be killed by US army no matter how hard it trys because Allah has written in Loh-e-Mahfuz that Dajjal Mulla Umar can only be killed by Jesus Christ himself. --ChJameel (talk) 00:39, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

wow what a facinating debate. there is a meeting in the future of judaism, christianity and islam in the persons of jesus/isa, the mahdi, and the antichrist/dajjal. In islamic tradition the antichrist will rule the world from jerusalem and fight the mahdi until jesus comes and kills him( Sheik imran hosien) RE: jerusalem in the quran http://forums.islamicawakening.com/f18/free-e-book-jerusalem-quran-sheikh-imran-42139/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.99.67.72 (talk) 04:33, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Christian belief biased link-remove or report page

I strongly agree that the christian belief part is biased and it is hate speech. I am a muslim and I don't think all christians think of muslims as satanic devil worshipers and their prophecies are satanic inspirations. Plus it is got a whole wrong idea of the messenic AL-MAHDI. All we (Sunnis) know about this figure that he will play a role in uniting muslims to defend themselves aganist the Anti-Christ's attack on Mecca and Medina. There is no Hocus-Bocus stories of him fighting jews or christians. I strongly deny what is there in that link.He will not be able to defeat the Anti-Christ, then Jesus (the one who christians and Jews know)will have his second return and he will reveal which of the three relegions is to be followed. Then, All will follow the Christ's belief and he (Jesus) will personally kill the Anti-Christ. The Anti-Christ will not stand the power of Jesus. He will dissolve like salt in water upon the approach of Jesus. When Jesus reaches to kill him he will already have been evaporated. This is the story that we now. It is not fabricated so as not to be provokative to the Christians or the Jews.All sunni's belief of Mahdi as a defendant of Mecca and Medina aganist the Anti-christ. It is belived that he will survive the Anti-Christ but his fate after that is not known.Besides, the Quran never mentions this figure (Al-Mahdi) it is only mentioned in many hadith which may vary in the degree of reliability.—  Mkaddah 20:00, 26 February 2006

Please stop adding nonsense to Wikipedia. It is considered vandalism. If you were just trying to experiment, then use the sandbox instead. Thank you. Mkaddah 04:03, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

An encyclopedia is for reporting of facts and various people's views. This should be done with as neutral a point of view as possible. It is unfortunate that the reporting of these views sometimes offends people. The intention is to inform, not to offend. A western english encyclopedia tends to allow more freedom and less censorship that some cultures are happy with. ^rossnixon 10:06, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

If this is to note that our cultures is closed for christianity preaching, sur you know that your clutures are closed to islamic preachings too....it is very comparable...Wikipedia is for all....that's why we keep a very neutral view of what is written ...most of what is written about islam in wikipedia does not satisfy me but I don't impose my ideas on others....and as for censorship and freedom on the internet, these ideas are found everywhere over the internet even in my own language (Arabic)....not in Western English Language :-)...we are just trying to get wikipedia out of this field.— Mkaddah 8:42, 1 March 2006

This happened in the past!

"There will be an insurgence by the Sufyani, a descendent of Abu Sufyan. Abu Sufyan is considered by Shias to have been one of Muhammad's greatest enemies, along with his son, Muawiya I and Muawiya's son, Yazid. According to Shia narrations, the Sufyani's revolution will start from Palestine/Jordan, and his reign of tyranny will span the Middle East from Iraq to Egypt."

Muslims believes that Israel will take over the land from Egypt to Iraq and then Jesus (Essa or Isa) will appear to fight them along with Mahdi.

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03/28/06

Just a suggestion... I think the article should also be linked to the wiki article on the Bab (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bab) From a Baha'i perspective he is the Mahdi.

Bihar ul Anwar

Is that true that 16th volume of Bihar ul Anwar claims that Mahdi will be born at the end of (Islamic) 14th century, i.e. before 9 November 1980? If so, what is the contemporary Shiite view on Bihar ul Anwar's prophecies about Mahdi? · Naive cynic · 18:48, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

1-As I know the 13th Vol. of Bihar ul Anwar is about Mahdi.

2-I read the Persian translation of it but I don't see such a thing.

3-This idia is against Shiite beliefs but Bihar ul Anwar is a collection of hadiths and there is some untrue Hadiths.

4- Can you tell exactly wich one you mean. Then I can answer you definitly.--213.217.50.140 09:33, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Bibliography

I've added a bibliographical section dealing with English language literature on Mahdism (s), also reproduced with the Messiah entry. Can anyone think of any other English language references that should be there?

User Calibanu 17:02, 31 May 2006

Why was the Mahdawi Sources part Removed?

A Revision of this article as of 06:08, 1 August 2006 shows that a sub-topic Mahdavi sources was removed from under the Birth of the Mahdi.

Was it really an unnecessary piece of information??? Not meeting wikipedia requirements??!?!?

As a matter of a fact a whole mass of a community exists out there called Mahadwis (They spell it Mahdavis).

Along with a big amount of elaborately presented evidence and appropriate interpretation of traditional prophecies and logical and reasonable answers for everyone who could present a doubt about their belief, they are thriving after the passage of their Mahdi 500 years back.

Does any other such mahdawi (followers of Mahdi) group other than this one exists??? That too surviving the opposition from all the other dis-believing sects and groups from Islam around them trying to subdue and refute their belief - all the five hundred years of the long time???

Presently, although they are a part of the sunni part of Islam on the basis of the school of thought they follow, they keep themselves quite separate from the remaining bigger sunni group world around. In the matters of Islamic practices and rituals they are perfectly sunni and follow any of the four schools of thought among the sunni sect. They call present themselves to be strictly sunni.

Shouldn't the Mahdavi Belief sub-topic brought back from the time as it was in Revision as of 19:12, 31 July 2006.

How to do it??? Should it be reverted or just copied and pasted??? Please guide.

Azgs 22:05, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Jesus' Family

In the section about the emhergence of the Mahdi it says, "According to some traditions, Jesus gets married, has a (another?) family, and dies. There is a grave reserved for him next to Muhammad's grave in Masjid al-Nabawi in Medina." Just currious why this "(another?)" is there.Dhawk1964 21:49, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

This is unreliable so I removed it. If anybody want to add it again, he/she should add reliable reference too.--213.217.50.140 09:37, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

• I thought it didn't sound right. Thanks. Dhawk1964 20:18, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Kanz al-Ummal???

I was just wondering, why is Kanz-al-Ummal mentioned under the topic Sunni sources, without mentioning that this book is heavlily critisised for having weak or no isnad in many of its traditions?

Kanz al-Ummal is a very good (not perfect but near perfect) Urdu translation of the Quran by Aala Hazart Ahmed Raza Bralivi. ChJameel. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ChJameel (talk • contribs) 02:11, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Muslim Viewpoint

There some parts of article which is similiar between Shi'a and Sunni like "He will fill the world with justice and fairness at a time when the world will be filled with oppression". So we can make a new section and put these parts there.--Sa.vakilian 05:30, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Regarding Mahdi in Sunni Islam

This section seems to have incoorect info. Shia muslims also believe that Isa (Jesus) will arrive to Mahdi and that Isa will pray behind him. THe difference between Shia and Sunni beliefs is only that the Shia believe he was been alive and hidden (in occultation) for 8 centuries (not 100) and that he is eleven generations down from the prophet - i.e, he is the twelfth Imam for the Twelver Shi'as. Not sure what other Shia branches believe (ismailis for example) but this is the belief of the twelvers. Also "According to Sunnis the Mahdi who the Shiites are waiting for, does not and did not exist. The Muslims on both sides have faced numerous hardships and calamities because of this belief that the Shiites carry and propagate regarding Mahdi." Doesn't sound very NPOV to me. I've edited the page.

--89.240.227.58 22:20, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

This page is extremely misleading in presenting the Mahdi as a shared Sunni and Shia tradition. The topic of Mahdi does not factor significantly into traditional Sunni Islam. It isn't mentioned in the Qu'ran and to barely note that Ahle-Qu'ran denies the whole thing belies the fact this is, fundamentally, a Shia belief. Of course, this page needs more work than just in this area, but this is the most misleading to the lay observer. Elijahmeeks 07:06, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

I suggest dividing the Mahdi topic as there are profound differences in the view of Mahdi between Shia and Sunni doctrines. At the moment the Mahdi entry is a total mess. There should be a Mahdi entry with Sunni view and a Mahdi entry with Shia view. Anyways, this split is urgently needed imho. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.166.105.192 (talk) 23:02, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

I added a narration to the section of 'Mhadi in sunni Islam" but it was reverted by Edward321. Why was it reverted? this is the authenticated hadith:

Even if the entire duration of the world’s existence has already been exhausted and only one day is left before Doomsday, Allah will expand that day to such length of time as to accommodate the kingdom of a person from my Ahlul-Bayt who will be called by my name. He will fill out the earth with peace and justice as it will have been full of injustice and tyranny (by then).

Mhhossein (talk) 13:27, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Proposal to Merge

I propose we merge from this article into Muhammad al-Mahdi. This article is a mess, and even a cursory examination by a non-expert reveals that its sources are misleadingly described at best and quackery at worst. The Muhammad al-Mahdi article is much more serious and addresses this topic in a more scholarly and intelligible manner. If there's anything at all that can be saved from this article, then we can put it into there.Elijahmeeks 18:25, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Disagree: Mahdi is the promised person which introduced by the prophet. Muhammad al-Mahdi is the 12th Imam of Shi'a and Shi'a believe that he's the Mahdi while don't believe in him. I remove the tag.--Sa.vakilian(t-c) 18:25, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Please don't remove the tag until there has been more input--though it seems to be the general tenor that the merge is not a good idea, let's leave a little more time for others to comment upon it. Elijahmeeks 18:30, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Disagree. Mahdi and Muhammad al-Mahdi are two different things. It should not be combined. Tarikur 04:15, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Disagree Imam Mehdi and Muhammad al-Mehdi are two different persons. Ch Jameel 26 April 2009. The spelling should Mehdi not Mahdi. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ChJameel (talk • contribs) 02:16, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Edit if not merged

I pulled out the following text, as well as removed one extremist link (Will look at the rest tomorrow). Primarily this was directed at emphasizing the (already existing within the article) dispute between Sunni and Shia views of the Mahdi as well as removing what are listed as Sunni sources but are entirely lifted from Shia sources. I still think this is a disservice to the lay observer, but if consensus points to keeping these separate articles, then I can at least clean up this one. Elijahmeeks 05:08, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

If the logic behind my changes is faulty, please explain it instead of performing a revert. I think the following sections are unencyclopedic and should be removed. Likewise, I think some of the sources are suspect. Finally, there are basic grammar and vocab changes that need to be made to make the article readable. Elijahmeeks 19:04, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Removed Text Characteristics of the Mahdi Shia sources

• His name is generally accepted to be ???, just like Muhammad's full name. Muhammad is just a title. Muhammad literally means "praised one".
• Some Muslims claim that his name can be an accepted variant of Muhammad such as Ahmed or Mahmoud; Supporters of this idea quote a passage from Muhammad in the Hadith which is interpreted: "If there remains only a day for the world to come to an end, Allah will prolong this day till He raises a man from my nation and my progeny. His name will be my name. He will fill the earth with justice and equity as it would have fraught with injustice and oppression." (Muntakhabul Asar by Lutfullah Safi Gulpaygani, p. 153)
• His appearance is similar to that of Muhammad.
• His character is like that of Muhammad, he would follow him perfectly and shall err not.
• Walī al-‘Aṣr (Arabic: ولي العصر), meaning 'Guardian of the Era', is a title for the Mahdi.

Sunni sources

• He has a fair complexion.
• He has a broad forehead and a prominent nose.
• He will be from Ahl-ul-bayt (people of the household of Muhammad)* Muhammad said: "al-Mahdi is one of us, the members of the household (Ahlul-Bayt)."
• He will come from the East (i.e East of Arabian Peninsula).
• His majority followers will be from a poor Nation from the East.
• His majority followers will be from the Muslims belonging to the Lost Tribes of Israel or the family of Prophet Ishaq living in the East.

Signs indicating the emergence of the Mahdi Shi'a sources

• According to Shia sources no one can detemine the time of Imam Mahdi's emergence (Not even himself). Only Allah knows the exact time and whoever determines any specific time is a liar (Kamal ul-din, p 484, Hadith #4). Nevertheless, there are some signs for his emergence, most of which are not necessary conditions for his reappearance.
• The 6th Shi'a Imam, Jafar al-Sadiq, is reported to have said:

"Before the appearance of the one who will rise, peace be upon him, the people will be reprimanded for their acts of disobedience by a fire that will appear in the sky and a redness that will cover the sky. It will swallow up Baghdad, and will swallow up Kufa. Their blood will be shed and houses destroyed. Death will occur amid their people and a fear will come over the people of Iraq from which they shall have no rest."

• There will be an insurgence by the Sufyani, a descendant of Abu Sufyan. Abu Sufyan is considered by Shias to have been one of Muhammad's worst enemies, along with his son, Muawiya I and Muawiya's son, Yazid. According to Shia narrations, the Sufyani's revolution will start from Palestine/Jordan, and his reign of tyranny will span the Middle East from Iraq to Egypt.
• A loud call from the sky signals the Mahdi's appearance.

Emergence of the Mahdi Sunni sources

• A prophetic tradition says that he is born between Mecca and Medina
• He emerges during the last days of the world from Mecca
• He comes with Divine Power that no mortal can oppose
• He and Isa (ie. Jesus) are two different individuals; This so accepted by consensus of earlier scholars, although it counters the prophetic tradition presented by famous Muslim historian Ibn Khaldun. He quotes Anas ibn Malik that Muhammad said, "لا مهدي إلا عيسى بن مريم," literally meaning, "There is no Mahdi but Jesus son of Mary."
• He precedes the second appearance of Jesus
• He establishes justice, peace and truth throughout the land (or World: the Arabic word "الأرض", pronounced al-ardh, does not necessarily refer to the World, but from its basic meaning, 'land', could mean one country or even just a region.)
• Jesus defeats the Deceiving Messiah or Antichrist, known as al-Masih ad-Dajjal, and then destroy the crucifix and kill the pig (destroying the symbols of prodigality).
• Once the Deceiving Messiah is defeated, Jesus and the Mahdi live on Earth to live out their natural life
• The Mahdi will correct the false or corrupted practices in Islam and through him all Muslims will agree and come together. Jesus will likewise correct false practices done in his name (i.e. Christianity).
• Some scholars also established Jesus would be praying behind the Mahdi.
• Before his coming, a third of the world will die in a war, another third will die in famine and sickness caused by this great war and only a third will survive.

Shi'a sources

• He was born in Samarra in the year 255 AH at the dawn of 15th Shaban.
• Upon his emergence, the young among his followers, without any prior appointment, reach Mecca that very night
• Each of his soldiers has the power of forty strong men
• Sinful opposers call their own followers to fight
• A large number of non-believers will revert to Islam once they see that the signs in the reports have occurred

Battles of the Mahdi 1. The Mahdi will be a descendant of the Prophet Muhammad. It is said he will have appearance and clothes like the Bani-Israel (Children of Israel) but will have the complexion of an Arab. He will be from the Hejaz region.

2. His army will come from the East of Arabia in the lands of Ancient Khurasan with black flags.

3. Muslims from the East from the family of Prophet Ishaq (Isaq) will unite under him.(The Muslims from the Lost Tribes of Israel will be his main followers as Ishaq is father of Israel)

4. Will come under attack from Iraq, Syria, and Rome.

5. The attackers will be swallowed in the desert in the land between Mecca and Medina.

6. The gates of Constantinople will open and the land will surrender to him by his army of seventy thousand people from the Bani Ishaq (i.e Children of Prophet Ishaq )

7. Will establish a just rule in the land of Israel and will give wealth away freely without counting it.

Biased section

I removed this material that seemed highly biased. If anyone thinks this is a relevant POV, they could certainly find some sources and reapply it to the article specifically mentioning what groups may hold this view.

IMAM MEHDI

Imam Mehdi Riaz Ahmed Gohar Shahi is the awaited Imam Mehdi. Evidence pertaining the arrival of the awaited Imam Mehdi shall become evident for those willing that are aware of the signs of His arrival and seek to establish a connection. They shall see the signs appear clearer than ever, on the moon, the sun, the holy Hajre Aswad, in the Holy Ka'ba also known as the Black Stone and in various other places.

Imam Mehdi shall come for all of humanity, he shall unite the loving souls by Divine light. There is a large misconception that there will exist a literal differential in physical presence of believers on one side and non believers on the other. Although this is partly true, Who ever shall have Gods Divine light, God's love in their hearts shall be on the side of Imam Mehdi. Those that have no light, those who have darkened their hearts shall be on the side of the Anti-Christ.

This is why whether you're a Muslim, a Christian, follow Judaism, follow Hinduism, Imam Mehdi shall be for everyone. Although His Holines shall have different names in different religions they all link to the SAME Essence no matter what the calling name may be.

Furthermore we should hereby rule out the fact that His Holiness is only here to save the Muslims. The Messiah is here to save the Jewish people, Kalki Avatar is here to save the Hindu people. Now to link this with uniting all humanity how shall His Holines unite everyone when they are seperated in sects and religions? What this means is that whichever religion one practices they may keep to their rituals as they are the religion of the body, Imam Mehdi is here to teach us the religon of the soul.

The soul will be what shall gain you eternal life, in the hereafter, as all religions will agree on this fact. When the soul wasn't sent down to Earth it worshipped God and belonged in the company of God. After being sent to the materialistic world, the souls re0directed their aim of worshipping God instead their mis interpretations of holy scripture lead them to indulge in bodily religions. When one is born they are born into a religion of the world. This is why as soon as we're born we inherit the religion of our parents and our families. Food for thought: What religion were we before we were born, and what religion will we become when Imam Mehdi arrives in this world?

Therefore in the light of the above it is highly essential that one does research and acquires in depth knowledge before one can claim and accuse. Riaz Ahmed Gohar Shahi is the awaited Imam Mehdi. Everyone is warmly welcomed to take on this challenge and evaluate which group of souls they might belong to.

It doesn't look very credible to me personally. --TrippingTroubadour 23:19, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Imam Mehdi Riaz Ahmed Gohar Shahi (Aliahi Salam) is the awaited Imam Mehdi. There are more than 2 or 3 million followers of Imam Gohar Shahi. I am also one of them. --ChJameel (talk) 00:55, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

New Additions

The Brief Discourse on the Portents of the Awaited Mahdi and The Rose Fragrance Concerning the Reports on al-Mahdi? These are scholarly works? Has anyone got any books by scholars from the past thirty years dealing with this subject? Quoting hadith and 1100-year old philosophers may be fine for islamqa.com, but that's not encyclopedic. Elijahmeeks 17:03, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Mehdi A.S. At QURAN

1. Group Verse:

33 / AL AHZÂB 40: Muhammed (PBUH) is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the Last (Seal) of the Nabis (Prophets); and Allah is All-Knower of all things.

Allah Almighty says that our Prophet (PBUH) is the last Prophet, but He does not say that he is the last Messenger.

3 / AL- `IMRAN 81: (Remember) It was when Allah took the covenant of the prophets, saying: "Verily I give you a Book and Divine Wisdom. When a Messenger comes to you, confirming what is with you (the Books that Allah sent you), you believe in him and render him help." Allah said: "Do you agree, and take this My Covenant as binding on you?" They said: "We agree." He said: "Then bear witness, and I am with you among the witnesses."

33 / AL AHZAP 7: And remember We took from the prophets their covenant, as (We did) from you: from Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus the son of Mary: We took from them a solemn covenant.Allah Almighty, by taking a covenant from the Prophets who are given Books, says: “When a Resul (Messenger) who follows the Books of Divine Law that Allah has given you, come, you will definitely have faith in him and help him. Have you acknowledged this and taken my solemn covenant on yourselves?”

Upon the answer “We acknowledged,” Allah says: “Then bear witness! I am one of the witnesses together with you.”

According to Surah Ahzab-7, our Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), the seal of the Prophets (the last of the Prophets) is also among the Prophets from whom the Covenant is taken.

So this Resul (Messenger) who will come after all of the Prophets cannot be Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).

It becomes definite that this Resul (Messenger) is the Imam of the Age, Walee Resul Mahdi who will come after our Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) in an age close to Doomsday.

2. Group verse :

44 / AD-DUKHÂN 10: Then watch for the day that the sky will bring forth a kind of smoke (or mist) plainly visible.

44 / AD-DUKHÂN 11: It is such a smoke that it will surrender the people. This is a Grievous Chastisement.

44 / AD-DUKHÂN 12: They will say: ‘Our Lord, remove this torment from us for we are MUMIN."

44 / AD-DUKHÂN 13: They do not derive a lesson (reminder). Verily, there has come to them a Messenger evidently.

44 / AD-DUKHÂN 14: Then, they turned away, and said, "He is a trained insane person."

“Dukhan” is a mischief that surrounds the whole world today. Since more than 90% of all human beings do not wish to reach Allah, and they are divided into groups within the religion, they have fallen into shirk and do not live the one and only religion of Allah, which is “The Religion of Submission.”

Those who get divided into parties within religion are those who do not wish to reach Allah. They have forgotten ‘wishing to reach Allah.’ This smoke (Dukhan) is a torment surrounding the whole world. “Take this torment away from us,” they pray. “Because we are the MUMIN,” they say.But these people (of today) are not MUMIN because they do not wish to reach Allah. They think believing in Allah suffices to make them MUMIN.

3. group Verse :

25 / AL-FURQÂN 27: The day that the unjust (oppressor) will bite at his two hands, he will say, "Oh! Would that I had taken the path (leading to Allah) with that Messenger.

25 / AL-FURQÂN 28: "Ah! woe to me! Would that I had never taken so-and-so as a friend!

25 / AL-FURQÂN 29: "He indeed led me astray from the DHIKR (remembering and repeating the name of Allah), after the Quran had come to me! Ah! Satan is a deserter to man!"

25 / AL-FURQÂN 30: And the Messenger said: "O my Lord! My people (tribe) deserted this Qur'an.”

The Messenger says, “My nation has abandoned the Qur’an.” Which Messenger? It cannot be our Prophet (PBUH), because at that time the disciples of the Prophet (PBUH) had faith in the whole Qur’an.

3 / AL- `IMRAN 119: O you who are Amenu (who wish to reach Allah in this life)! You are such people that you love them although they do not love you, and you believe in the whole of the Book. When they meet you, they say, "We believe", but when they are alone, they bite off the very tips of their fingers at you in their rage. Say: "Perish in your rage; Allah knows well all the secrets of the heart."

This Messenger is the Messenger of today, who hundreds of times and by all means explained that the wrong teachings of the scholars in his nation are rooted in their abandonment of the Qur’an. This is because the curricula of our universities are not based on the Qur’an but on the Books written over the centuries.

The fundamentals of the Qur’an that convey to mankind the happiness of Heaven and of this world, the 7 phases and 28 steps and 4 submissions of Islam (although proven by Verses in the Qur’an that it has been lived by the disciples of the Prophets (PBUH)) are not being taught anymore. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.227.121.139 (talk) 09:16, 7 May 2007 (UTC).

Please review the policy on original research. Citing verses from the Qur'an and saying it means "such and such" is not acceptable as it is a primary source. Interpretation of the verses has to come from a notable scholar/secondary source. → Aktar ^{(talk • contribs)} — 09:25, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I have added to the article:

Javed ahmed ghamidi says in his book Almeezan: "Besides these, the advent of Mahdi and that of Jesus (sws) from the heavens are also regarded as signs for the Day of Judgement. I have not mentioned them. The reason is that the narratives of the advent of Mahdi do not conform to the standards of Hadith criticism set forth by the muhaddithun. Some of them are weak and some fabricated; no doubt, some narratives, which are acceptable with regard to their chain of narration, inform us of the coming of a generous caliph;[4](Muslim, No: 7318). however, if they are deeply deliberated upon, it becomes evident that the caliph they refer to is ‘Umar Ibn ‘Abd al-‘Aziz who was the last caliph of the early history of the Muslims. This prediction of the Prophet (sws) has thus materialized in his personality word for word. One does not need to wait for any other Mahdi now". ( http://www.al-mawrid.org/pages/articles_english_detail.php?rid=455&cid=263&search=mahdi) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.153.70.216 (talk) 05:59, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Islamic sects not accepting mahdi

Please cite a reliable source which affirms the view that all muslims do not accept the arrival of the Mahdi. More specifically, a source to show which muslims do not believe in the Mahdi. Thanks. → AA ^{(talk • contribs)} — 13:59, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, Qur'an alone Muslims only accept what appears in the Qu'ran, and since the Mahdi is never mentioned in the Qu'ran, they don't accept it. There's also a source in the article, if this doesn't satisfy you, quite clearly labeled as critical of the existence of the Mahdi. Finally, and this is not sourceable, but every Muslim I know here in California thinks the Mahdi is "Some kind of Shia thing". I'd actually take issue with the 'Most Muslims believe in the Mahdi' claim within the article, but I've found that arguments in these little Islam articles can grow quite fierce, so I just try to maintain as much NPOV as possible. Elijahmeeks 19:51, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

There needs to be a reliable scholarly source to show which sect(s) do not accept the coming of the Mahdi. We cannot add our personal views or experiences into the article as that is plainly original research. I've added cn tags to the statement that need sourcing (using ref tags) as I couldn't see which source validates this. → AA ^{(talk • contribs)} — 21:22, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I know, that's why I haven't added anything. All I've tried to do is keep people from removing things. However, the Ahle Qu'ran statement is pretty clear, there's no OR or RS issues. I think the ref-tags are good, that should get people looking. Elijahmeeks 00:27, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the Ahle-Quran statement is not sufficient to meet the needs of RS & V and for it not to be OR. As it is an issue of contention (evidenced by the multiple reverts), this view must be sourced in this article to a reliable scholarly source. The cn tags are there to give yourself and other editors a chance to source it (while avoiding an edit war) since looking at the references in the article, the opposite case can easily be sourced and added. → AA ^{(talk • contribs)} — 07:49, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree, I think this article (As with most of these cottage Islam articles) is in desperate need of scholarly sources. Most of them rely on websites of nebulous authority or strange books that no university press would touch. Elijahmeeks 05:12, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I am a Muslim and many of the people I know who are sunni don't accept Mahdi. I believe the concept of Mahdi was originally from Shite doctine, which some Sunnis later adopted. Most of the people I know believe in second coming of Prophet Jesus and Dajjal not Mahdi or doubtful about Mahdi. Tarikur 03:17, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

That is original research. If you can find reliable sources, then the claim can be made. → AA ^{(talk • contribs)} — 06:45, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

What you mean find reliable source? This is a personal belief system. There are are many Sunni that don't accept Mahdi since Quran or any reliable hardcore Hadiths don't mentions Mahdi. For example, look at this site. This Islamic scholar don't accept Mahdi. [4]. And look at this site [5], it says "In Sunni Islam, the "Mahdi" is just one of several important figures, while the "Mahdi" of Shi'i Islam has a real eschatological importance, and is in the future the most important figure for Islam as well as the world." Tarikur 04:16, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

(Outdent) Reliable source as in a notable scholar who makes/supports this claim. Personal views cannot be used in articles as that is prohibitied by the policy on no original research. That's just the way Wikipedia works. → AA ^{(talk • contribs)} — 07:51, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Can Elijah and Takirah please mention the names of the sects besides Ahle-Quran (or Quran-Alone) who do not believe in Mahdi. I am a sunni Muslim myself and have spent 2+ years in a religious school and was amazed to see how misrepresentative of sunni school of thought this article is. Hanafi sect in Sunnis believes in Mahdi. Sha'afi beleive Hambali believe Ma'aliki believe Deobandi believe Barelvi believe Ahle-hadith (wahabi & salafi) believe

To date, I cannot find a single sect apart from Ahle-Quran which do not believe in Mahdi. Secondly, it claims the consensus of sunni Ulema do not believe in Mahdi. Firstly, the Ahle-Quran people came into existence sometime in the late 1800s, more than 1000 years after Quran came. During these 1000 years, can you name just 10 notable Sunni scholars who did not believe in Mahdi. Even Imam Bukhari, who collected Sahih Bukhari, never said he doesn't believe in Imam Mahdi.

Then, even nowadays, you can find well-known Lebanese publishers who publish CDs that have collections of 1000+ Hadith books (and Sahih Bukhari is just one of them). And it is a well-known fact that it's not necessary for a hadith to be present in all these books to be valid. A Hadith present in Sunan Tirmizi and Ibn-e-Majah but missing in Bukhari or Sahih Muslim is acceptable near all Muslim scholars who believe in Hadith. The article's repetitive mention that sunnis dispute about him because he is not mentioned in Quran or Sahih Bukhari is ONLY representative of the Ahle-Quran. Otherwise, can you show me a single sect that believes in Sahih Bukhari only and rejects all other books of Hadith.

Even the Wikipedia article on Sunnis says: "Most Sunni accept the hadith collections of Bukhari and Muslim as the most authentic (sahih, or correct), and grant a lesser status to the collections of other recorders. There are, however, four other collections of hadith that are also held in particular reverence by Sunni Muslims, making a total of six." "There are also other collections of hadith which, although less well-known, are still thought to contain many authentic hadith and are frequently used by specialists. Examples of these collections"

And there is a list of 12 well-known Hadith books. So Sunni scholars accept Hadith from all these books and more. Do you claim that Mahdi is not mentioned in any of these books? Then, if you see the wikipedia Map on Sunni-Shia demographics, you will see that Sunnis live mostly in Africa and Asia. So your claim that that you asked people around California and they agree with your viewpoint on the Mahdi dispute is not enough even if Wikipedia allowed original research.

In the light of this whole discussion, I claim that you enter the names of the specific sects into the article which do not believe in Mahdi, rather than saying most sunnis don't believe in him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.27.169.24 (talk) 16:20, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

-Majority of Sunni Muslims believe in Imam Mehdi and that Islam is the only true religion and one day after the second coming of Imam Mehdi all the world will embrace Islam. Those who dont are just a handfull. --ChJameel (talk) 15:55, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Merge Hadith about the Mahdi

I agree. There's nothing notable about the hadith themselves and should be merged into the Mahdi article appropriately. → AA ^{(talk • contribs)} — 15:38, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Sunni sources about Mahdi

I found some information in islamonline.net-an authentic Sunni source- which describes the Sunni's viewpoint about Mahdi:What Islam Says About the Mahdi, Authenticity of Hadiths Pertaining to Al-Mahdi , Antichrist and the Second Coming of Jesus, The Appearance of Mahdi, Is it true that imam Mahdi is already born, Who is the "Mahdi"--Sa.vakilian(t-c) 13:38, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Capitalization?

I am unfamiliar if the use of capitalization is officially ruled on in wikipedia. For uses such as capitalizing deific nouns and pronouns (Prophet, His, Lord, God, etc.)

On this matter I can't see how it would make it any less accurate from an encyclopedic standpoint, so it would be allowed within the censorship rules, but would it be allowed within the neutrality guidelines?

I personally have no objection either way, despite my personal attitude of respect and reverence towards Prophets, I just noticed that there had been some editing that seemed to indicate that this was disputed. Peter Deer (talk) 19:01, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Most Well-Known?

On the claims of Muhammad Ahmed being the most well-known claim to the title in the west is there any basis of this or should it be removed on using weasel words?

I'm going to put a 'fact' tag on it for now. Peter Deer (talk) 19:07, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Mahdi (Peace be on him)

Welcome to Wikipedia, user:Wiki-caretaker. We do not carry on discussions regarding content of articles on individual user talk pages, so please don't post to mine with whatever issues you might have with any of my edits. We can carry on content discussions on the article's "Discussion" page if you wish. I'm glad whenever editors take an interest in the Mahdi page, because it's sorely lacking strong content. To answer your question, we have to word things in an encyclopedic way, so phrases like "In actuality" are not acceptable, and neither is "(Peace be upon him)" EVER to be used in an article. These affections are not appropriate here, no matter how compelled we might feel to extol them. I'm sure you understand. The policy for citing sources explains how to properly cite sources. I'm afraid providing eight links to various websites is not how to properly cite sources. I'm not familiar enough with the sentiments you are trying to purvey, or I might be of greater assistance in helping you add this new content. We can surely easily tweek the wording, and cite it correctly to have your new sentiments included. To cite a book ref please refer to the link above for how to add content from verifiable sources. Let's hammer this out here to avoid wasting yours, or anyones time. Baha'i Under the Covenant (talk) 20:17, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Mahdi title

At the beginning of Abbasid era Mahdi is a well known and glorified title. There is an article about the isse:Khurasani revolutionaries and al-Mahdi Title; Culture and Memory in Medieval Islam: Essays in Honour of Wilferd; pp 279-317--Seyyed(t-c) 12:42, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Shi'a Resources

Most of references in this article belong shi'a beliefs. They cannot proof sunni's doctrine. Anywhere that is claimed anything about sunni's belief must refer to their books. These two branches of Islam are totaly separated.--JackNiki (talk) 17:50, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, Momen is independent of either so is probably exactly what WP is looking for as a source. The citation is WP:V. MARussellPESE (talk) 18:47, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

I do know the WP rules. I've been participating in an other WP language for two years. The matter is the controversy of religions. Just people of a specific religion can claim something about their own religion. In this case, that Shi'a reference cannot claim anything about Sunni's beliefs.(JackNiki/Becuse Login Problem)--85.9.117.136 (talk) 06:14, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

It's not always easy, but it's best to approach matters such as this with a broad objective view. As MARussell has already noted, the content you're removing comes from a verifiable source, Mr. Momem, who's not a Shi'a or Sunni, so the objections you're raising are benign. Moreover there's no Wiki policy or guideline to the affect that "Just people of a specific religion can claim something about their own religion". That's not how things work on any Wiki page in any language. In fact, an unbiased source like Momem is preferable in such cases as he doesn't have an agenda, and provides a neutral view. He's a reliable source by all accounts, and it's a lost cause to try and excise him from this article. You are of course welcome to bring forward contributions from your own reliable sources and improve the article, but I'm afraid removing content from noted scholars on subjects they're considered experts upon will not likely be deemed a contribution. Regards. _Disarray^General 06:48, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Kalki Avatar of Hindus

"Lord Vishnu took an Avatar as Krishna during the Dwapara Yuga as Krishna/Balram, and as Ram/lakshman in Satya Yuga, where the lord is to take an Avatr as Kalki in the Kali yuga"

The above is reproduce from

http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewlite.php?t=2812 --ChJameel (talk) 05:28, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I searched for "kalki" in google and got many sites, some are reproduced here

http://www.iol.ie/~afifi/BICNews/Books/books16.htm

http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewlite.php?t=2812

http://www.expressindia.com/news/messages.php?newsid=30394&from=40

--ChJameel (talk) 05:24, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

What I wrote about Kalki Avatar of Hindus was removed by AA saying (was this meant for talk?)

Therfore I reinserted it with the comments below

This was not meant for the talk page. It shows traditions in even Non_Abrahamic religions about Imam Mehdi —Preceding unsigned comment added by ChJameel (talk • contribs) 02:15, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

ChJameel, I would refer you to the policies on original research and Verifiability. Please read those and feel free to add the information back once you can cite a reliable source. → AA ^(talk) — 00:01, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalki —Preceding unsigned comment added by ChJameel (talk • contribs) 18:33, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Is wikipedia a reliable source? --ChJameel (talk) 15:47, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

No, Wikipedia is not a reliable source ("Wikipedia itself, although a tertiary source, should not be used as a source within articles."). See Wikipedia:Reliable sources for an understanding of what can be classified as a reliable source. → AA ^(talk) — 22:23, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

The subtle differences in the words Mahdi and Mehdi

It has come to my attention that the words Mahdi and Mehdi are confused with each other. However, I understand that "Mehdi" is a Persian word, which is in association with the word "Mehnaz". I may be wrong, but does the word "Mehdi" not mean "the One of the Moon", or something along these lines? If this is true, I think we need to find out if historical evidence states whether we await a "Mehdi" or a "Mahdi". Thanks! (96.48.245.146 (talk) 10:03, 21 June 2009 (UTC))

They're the same thing. Cuñado ☼ - Talk 08:31, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I'd have to agree with 96.48.245.146. Through extensive research regarding this matter, I've come to an conclusion (in the light of A'hadith (Prophetic Traditions), the Qur'an & Persian Grammar), the words 'Mahdi' & 'Mehdi' are two different words, though addressed for one "Messianic" phenomenon.

'Mahdi' means 'The Guided One', however 'Mehdi' means 'The One of/? the Moon' (The Easiest Translation I could find), which I suppose the above user may have done. According to reputable scholars and believed saints of Islam, the word 'Mehdi' refers the image of the Mahdi that'd appear on the Moon at the time of his advent. i.e. Imam Ja'far As'adiq (a famous Imam from the lineage of the Prophet Mohammad [saw]) said, "The Image of the Mehdi shall shine on the Moon", which is added in the main article Mahdi. This is quoted from a famous book 'Al-Ghaybah - The Occultation', which includes many references and sayings of different Imams and scholars regarding the Advent of the Mahdi. The meaning of 'Mehdi' & 'Mahdi' is also quoted in a book written by a Pakistani Religious Leader, Riaz Ahmed Gohar Shahi, 'Deen-e-Ilahi - The Religion of God'. --  Nasir | ناصر یونس  have a chat  03:10, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Universal Muslim Views (On Imam Mahdi/Mehdi)

I've added this section to the article, to which I'll be adding sayings of Imams, scholars, saints of Islam, regarding the advent of Imam Mahdi/Mehdi (as). I've added two to the section as yet, which were already present in the article, of Imam Ja'afar As'adiq (ra).

The aim behind this is to propose prophecies by all those who may have prophesied, and are acceptable by more than one/or all sects of Islam. --  Nasir | ناصر یونس  have a chat  03:13, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Never mind, I'll just add them to the section above. --  Nasir | ناصر یونس  have a chat  03:48, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Section on Mahdi Doctrine unique to Shia view....

This particular section seems to have many issues.

• "Imam Mahdi is better than the word of Allah and spirit of Allah Jesus Christ the Messiah (1)"

This line seems to imply that according to Shia beliefs the Mahdi's words are better than the word of Allah. The dubious citation subsequently given below (even if we assume if it is true) does not imply any such thing. The only claim the citation makes is that Jesus will pray behind the Mahdi as. (again assuming this citation is actually verifiable)

• "Imam Mahdi will come and dig up the grave area of Muhammad and give life to Abu Bakr (1st and 2nd Khlifa respectively) and torture crucify and kill them (2)"

The citation for this statement is given from a book with the assumption that the book is a Shia book. This book is not referred to by any other well known Shia sources and thus its authenticity as a reliable source on Shia beliefs is very much in question. The statement quoted here is an extremely strong statement and without proper citations and sources should not be part of this article.

• "Imam Mahdi will bring with him the true version of quran (5)"

Again an extremely strong statement with a very dubious citation. In fact this statement is contradictory to Wikipedia's own article of the Shia view of Quran. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia_view_of_the_Qur%27an.

• The fundamental problem with this section is that it claims to list beliefs of the Shia around the Mahdi that are unique to them but surprisingly enough none of the statements or claims can be found in reliable Shia sources. You would think if these beliefs were common Shia beliefs they would be found very easily in Shia sources. AlIslam.org (http://www.al-islam.org/) a popular online Shia source has a large set of articles and books on the Mahdi none of which support any of the claims made in this section.

• I feel this section falls below the standards that Wikipedia has set and should be removed until the contents of this section are verifiable. Otherwise it is just hearsay.

My proposal is to remove this section from the article until such time as the author of this section can cite reliable and verifiable sources for the claims made.

Yousuf.haider (talk) 21:54, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Add to this the following paragraph in the Sunni section which actually describes a Shiah POV:

The Kaysāniya extended two other notions that became thoroughly related with the belief in the Mahdi. The first was the notion of return of the dead, particularly of the Imams. The second was the indication of occultation. “When Moḥammad b. al-Ḥanafiya died in 700, the Kaysāniya maintained that he was in occultation in the Raẓwā mountains west of Medina, and would one day return as the Mahdi and the Qāʾem.”[6] The appearance of the Prophet was also proposed unto the Mahdi. “An enormously influential tradition attributed to ʿAbd-Allāh b. Masʿud has Moḥammad predicting the coming of a Mahdi coined in his own image: ‘His name will be my name, and his father’s name my father’s name’” [6] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.174.110.25 (talk) 13:43, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Haile Selassie - no!

I hope you can take the passage about Ethiopia's late emperor Haile Selassie away. Selassie never claimed to be Mahdi, and Selassie had no direct lineage to The Prophet. This is the one of the worst pious fraud I have seen or heard about. --Caspiax (talk) 22:45, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

I've deleted it. It's unsourced and, absent a source, it seems highly unlikely and perhaps even a hoax. He was an Ethiopian Orthodox Christian. The only point of discussion, in reliable sources, about "divine status" relates to whether he accepted he was the rastafarian messiah. See Haile Selassie I#Question of his divinity. But that's a long way from the Islamic Mahdi. DeCausa (talk) 23:03, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

what is meaning of "alaf lam mim"

what is meaning of "alaf lam mim" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.29.56.67 (talk) 06:37, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

It is unknown--79.69.111.105 (talk) 20:31, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Sathya Sai Baba

There are claims that Sathya Sai Baba is Mahdi. It is said that: - He will return with a rejuvenated body, and rule for 7 years. - His "death" in 2011 is only the beginning of a period of 2 or 3 years - the occultation. - Soon he will be back to resume and complete his mission. Detailed info at http://www.saikingdom.com/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 177.106.179.57 (talk) 22:26, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

Kalki and Mahdi in Sikhism

In reference to the section "Mahdi in Sikhism" which probably needs to be removed: The Dasam Granth seems to claim that Mir Mehdi (Mahdi) will kill Kalki. Then Mir Mehdi will also be killed by God who sends an insect to creep into his ear and give him a very agonising pain. Both are called egoistic by the work. Otherwise both are said to ride a white horse.

Mahdi as an entity

There's been a lot going on with the Mahdi lately....I don't know. But as a Veteran, I'm formely adding Muqtada al-Sadr to the persona. Also erased two "citation needed", one in Portent as it was ambiguous and the other in a religious POV. This page is ready!208.87.232.180 (talk) 14:33, 26 March 2014 (UTC) Sorry, forgot to sign in....Wnicholas70 (talk) 14:56, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

You've been reverted by two of us now. Please resect WP:BRD. Firstly, there is no evidence that Muqtada al-Sadr (or his supporters) claim he is the Mahdi. If you have relible sources that say otherwise, please produce them. Otherwise your edits are a breach of WP:BLP. Mahdi army is not named for him. Secondly, "citation needed" can never be ambiguous or POV. Do not remove it until citations are provided. DeCausa (talk) 23:29, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Lawyers from London or Colorblind

Obviously y'all can handle this yourselves....I'm not good for citing...(thoughts of a Veteran)Wnicholas70 (talk) 14:43, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Secondly

I'm already having problems with Brits being slow.SLOW. Anyway....http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/02/iraqi-cleric-sadr-announces-retirement-20142167325224542.html If your colorblind this may help, as well as looking into the Promise day Brigades Mr. Cottes

Your post doesn't make sense. I'll try to be as clear as I can. We have special rules about living people. They are set out here: WP:BLP. This says that we have to cite sources if we claim something about a living person. By putting Muqtadr al-Sadr's name in a list of people who claim to be Mahdi you need to cite a reliable source that says he claims to be Mahdi. The al Jazeeri link you posted above does not say that. Do you understand what I have written? DeCausa (talk) 15:44, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Why do you people keep calling Mahdi, Imam Mahdi? I speak Arabic...

Don't mess with the local consensus as your 2 reverts ARE out-of-date....and yes I see that this makes 19 Mahdi's.

You are not making any sense again. What local consensus? DeCausa (talk) 15:44, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

WHAT NOW?

What now?Wnicholas70 (talk) 15:18, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Sorry about the delay

People keep vandalizing god for some reason...does anyone know what The Time of Imam Mahdi is? Maybe that should be moved to Book of Fatima?Wnicholas70 (talk) 18:30, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

---

who told that imam mahdi's world will become better than allah(god)'s word?

this sentence wrong.god will viwe to the people's world bye mahdi , the best state that world can be in.and all mind will jump in new level.now u can reach this but some barriers make friction.he wil remove them and he will kill devil(the king of angel which driven from god).

u know that he told in years ago to some one that my shia(means follower in arabic) don't want me even like drinking water.(i dont know u can get it it's term i our language) that's means he is aidless he have just god.

---

Mohammadsdtmnd (talk) 13:51, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Edits by User:Smhhalataei

This user is adding honorifics (AS) contrary to MOS:ISLAM as well as adding interpretation based on a primary source (hadith) in contravention of WP:PRIMARY. Please respect WP:BRD and agree your edits here before reverting again. Continue to revert and you are likely to be blocked. DeCausa (talk) 21:15, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Edits by User:Illuminator123

Please don't edit war andcexplain your edits here instead. You seem to have an objection to a source because the author is Bahai. The religion of the author isn't of itself grounds for saying it is not relable. Please read WP:RS. DeCausa (talk) 18:53, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

To DeCausa (talk)

Four changes were made: 1-"Shi'ism" was changed to "Shia Islam" to bring it in conformance with "Sunni Islam" in the title section and the fact that the subsection clearly starts with "In Shia Islam" not "In Shi'ism".

2-The section about "Mahdi" not being mentioned by the Prophet Muhammad was amended by a scriptural source that shows at least 140 hadith's have been uttered by Prophet Muhammad about the Mahdi.

3-The false statement from a Baha'i source in the "Shia section" that "After the Mahdi has ruled Earth for a number of years, Isa will return" was removed because IT WAS FALSE and Shia scripture explicitly state that the Mahdi and Jesus will appear at nearly the same time and will fight the final war alongside each other. This has nothing to do with religion of the author of the source being Baha'i.

4-The false statement attributed to Shia Islam from the Baha'i book was added to the "Baha'i section" because that is where it belongs. If that Baha'i author has an opinion about the Mahdi that goes against the Shia belief, then they should stick it in the Baha'i section not the Shia. They must also provide a scriptural Shia source instead of a reference to Baha'i research book.

That is why I made the changes. Illuminator123 (talk) 20:00, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Suggested Edit of "Necessity of Existence of Mahdi" section

The section "Necessity of Existence of Mahdi" is written in a train of thought speculative form that is inappropriate within a reference text such as Wikipedia. The inclusion of external references sources does not preclude the POV which is clearly evident.

For example

In answer it must be said that the protest is based only on the unlikelihood of such an occurrence, not its impossibility. Of course such a long lifetime or a life of a longer period is unlikely. But those who study the hadiths of Prophet Muhammad and the Imams will see that they refer to this life as one possessing miraculous qualities.

And in addition:

Miracles are certainly not impossible nor can they be negated through scientific arguments. It can never be proved that the causes and agents that are functioning in the world are solely those that we see and know and that other causes which we do not know or whose effects and actions we have not seen nor understood do not exist. It is in this way possible that in one or several members of mankind there can be operating certain causes and agents which bestow upon them a very long life of a thousand or several thousand years. Medicine has not even lost hope of discovering a way to achieve very long life spans. In any case such protests from "peoples of the Book" such as Jews, Christians and Muslims are most strange for they accept the miracles of the prophets of God according to their own sacred scriptures

Again these paragraphs presents highly disputable POV without even the possibility of determination.

The two paragraphs listed above are presented as statements of fact without clarification or reference to the their ontological and speculative POV nature.

At the very least I would suggest these two paragraphs are heavily edited or removed. Thoughts?? Slainz (talk) 01:22, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

I've removed them and a lot if additions made by the same user whose aim seems to be to turn the article into a devotional piece. DeCausa (talk) 18:31, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Amir Arjomand POVs

There are a lot of citations in the text from Said Amir Arjomand books. As a sociologist he has written his own religious POVs in his books about Islam. In the field of religious studies in the East and West, you can find any reference to his books in any paper. Over the past few months, I have tried to replace Amir Arjomand's POVs with authentic sources particularly those of Mohammad Hossein Tabatabai, who is considered one of the most prominent scholar of Islam in 20th century. Surprisingly enough, I hear here and in the view history that Tabatabi's book which servers as a classic text book is a POV!!!

Please explain it to me why Amir Arjomand books are not POV and Tabatabai ones are. Should a text be atheistic to be considered NPOV or should it refer to reliable sources to be considered scientific and authentic ?

What I see in Amir Arjomand books is sole speculation mixed with weak narratives. I consider all of his writings reflected here as POV which are inappropriate for Wikipedia.