Talk:2017 New York City truck attack

Suggesting title to be changed to '2017 Manhattan attack' or '2017 New York City terrorist attack'

Per WP:NOTABILITY, media and sources refer to incident as 'New York attack' or 'Manhattan attack'.JBergsma1 (talk) 21:09, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

Yeah I agree, we need a familiar title that is being used as the WP:COMMONNAME. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 21:06, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

Yes I ment WP:COMMONNAME. My bad.JBergsma1 (talk) 21:09, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

Why not name it "2017 New York City Truck Attack"? 173.54.215.179 (talk) 21:16, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

• Support move to "2017 New York City truck attack" (note caps). West Side Highway is simply too parochial. I do see the need to disambigulate from the "2017 Times Square car crash", however, unlike Times Square, no one outside the metor region has a clue what the West Side Highway is. Plus this a truck attack, and that was a car crash.E.M.Gregory (talk) 21:39, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

I think the new name isn't fitting, as the "west side highway" is only familiar with new yorkers. 173.54.215.179 (talk) 21:38, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

I agree that 'West Side Highway' is too parochial. However, 'New York' may not be specific enough. I hate to add another suggestion into the mix, but what about using the phrase 'Lower Manhattan'?Avilan01 (talk) 21:46, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

How about '2017 Lower Manhattan Truck Attack'? 173.54.215.179 (talk) 21:50, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

Yeah I think that works well. It's specific without being overly so. The unfortunate reality is that there have been many terrorist attacks in New York and there will probably be more. If we were to distinguish each one by just the year, things could get confusing in the future. Avilan01 (talk) 22:34, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

I agree, but think it should be fine for now. If future attacks make a distinction necessary, then we can also add "Halloween" to the name to distinguish this one. Jade Phoenix Pence (talk) 22:56, 31 October 2017 (UTC)Jade Phoenix Pence

Assuming (knock on wood) there aren't any more attacks this year in Manhattan, the title could use Manhattan. However, Lower Manhattan works too, and in my opinion, better, due to its specificity. Or call it the 2017 Halloween (truck) attack. I'm also kind of surprised the West Side Highway isn't that well known... I guess all those Law & Order reruns have biased me... Paris1127 (talk) 23:20, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

The 2017 Times Square car crash was also an attack in Manhattan this year, so we need to rename this article to October 2017 New York City attack. Jim Michael (talk) 01:26, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

• Bold move - I've moved the article to 2017 Lower Manhattan attack as both of the proposed titles are ambiguous and confusing, as either could accurately refer to the 2017 Times Square car crash. A title with "West Side Highway" is also undesirable, as that was only the site of a portion of the incident. Referring to it as Lower Manhattan is more precise, and accurate to locals and outsiders. It's important not to depend too much on news headlines for direction on this naming, as we are writing an encyclopedia where this article has to stand among all the other topics in the historical record. A news operation writing headlines for an event today does not take naming for posterity into account, like we do. So an event in May (Times Square car attack) may not, and usually does not, play into their headline writing process. (I lived in Manhattan for many years, biked through that area many times and have edited scores of news stories about NYC and Manhattan for more than a decade, so I'm quite familiar with this area and topic.) -- Fuzheado | Talk 14:28, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

• Oppose "Halloween" Two in the afternoon ain't e'en'. We can blame restless spirits from a shady underworld, but we can't pin this one on traditional spooky ghosts and may as well not even suggest it. Unless Trump suspects them, of course. InedibleHulk (talk) 17:38, November 1, 2017 (UTC)

• OK, I've given this some more thought and I'm fine with going with "Lower Manhattan" but still think we need to include "truck" - it is too vague without it -the title should be clear which attack we're talking about, because one of our concerns should be readers coming here and searching for this article and "truck" is central to it. So I'd go with 2017 Lower Manhattan truck attack. Tvoz/talk 19:13, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

I came here to read about the attack in Wikipedia and finally found it. I would have never guessed it was "Lower Manhattan". Reading the news, I do not see it referred to as "Lower Manhattan". Therefore, I suggest something other than Lower Manhattan. Even 2017 New York terrorist attack (2) would be better. Vanguard10 (talk) 02:41, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

Agree - that is why WP:COMMONNAME exists. 2017 New York Terror Attack or 2017 New York Truck Attack seem to be the most common names. Galobtter (talk) 02:45, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

2017 New York City Truck Attack' is a good name and very similar to that suggested by Galobtter. Vanguard10 (talk) 02:34, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

Nobody's calling it the "2017" anything. Wikipedia has a bad habit lately of attaching a year to everything, despite the common usage or whether the title needs disambiguation. Let's stop that, eventually, shall we? InedibleHulk (talk) 15:51, November 3, 2017 (UTC)

Thank you Thank you Thank you for the great suggestion. Wikipedia has a weird style and adding 2017 is part of it. Let's re-think things! Vanguard10 (talk) 03:51, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

We need to be precise in our titles. In 1993 a truck bombing went off in the World Trade Center so something like New York City Truck Attack wouldn't be helpful. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 16:03, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

Aye, when it's needed, it's needed. When we can distinguish through commonly-used words, though, that's clear and concise. "Manhattan truck ramming" is perfect, I say, but I'll wait till a proper RfC to make it my "final answer". InedibleHulk (talk) 17:00, November 3, 2017 (UTC)

Sayfullo Habibullaevich Saipov is probably written Сайфулло Хабибуллаевич Саипов in Cyrillic

For example this article. США: Выходец из Узбекистана Сайфулло Саипов совершил террористический акт в Нью-Йорке http://www.fergananews.com/news/27157

Change wording - IS to Intermediate School to prevent confusion with the Islamic State

I've never edited a wikipedia article before and am not sure that I am allowed to / should do so.

I just have a semantic request. Under the "Aftermath" header, it states:

"Stuyvesant High School and IS 289 were placed on lockdown...."

I propose changing IS289 to Intermediate School 289 to prevent confusion with IS referring to the Islamic State. Maybe no one else was confused by this but I was :)

Thanks

2605:E000:4E46:9F00:9CCB:5866:28CC:1114 (talk) 17:37, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing that out. I have now changed "IS" to "Intermediate School" exactly as you propose wisely. werldwayd (talk) 18:26, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

Reasonable edit. Residents of NYC might know what IS stands for but not all school districts have Intermediate Schools so many people would not recognize IS 289 even if they did not confuse it with Islamic State. -- Naaman Brown (talk) 01:56, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

That −is− [has the state of being] a good comment.2604:2000:E016:A700:9594:9323:E31C:B9B2 (talk) 08:54, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

Someone has changed it back to IS. 68.142.180.84 (talk) 15:51, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

This is fine now because it is "IS 289 Hudson River Middle School" so it's clear that it's a school and not Islamic State.

I have never edited or done anything on wikipedia before. This is really cool that you guys looked into / thought about / changed this. Pretty neat! I might have to get more involved. It makes more sense now. I have never posted anything on wikipedia before, like in the talk page, and I'm pretty impressed. You guys are incredible (though maybe a bit nerdy ;) )

2605:E000:4E46:9F00:DC95:3CE2:AA40:43CD (talk) 19:12, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 3 November 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved, and closing early per WP:SNOW. There's no way the the proposed title will be accepted, and concern about WP:BLPCRIME seems misplaced. This is a high-profile article about a current event, and there is no need to have it tagged about a proposal doomed to fail. No such user (talk) 10:02, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

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2017 Lower Manhattan attack → 2017 Lower Manhattan fatal truck rammings – The present name is a violation of WP:BLPCRIME as Sayfullo Saipov has not yet been convicted of any crime. As such, regardless of how many news outlets or politicians declare this to be an attack, given that attacking people with vehicles is a crime we have a responsibility to our BLP policy not to call this an attack until this is ascertained in a court of law. The FBI having pressed charges is noteworthy but until those charges result in convictions, it is a violation of BLPCRIME to speak as if the trial is already concluded and call him an attacker, no matter how overwhelming the evidence is, since Saipov is still alive. There is no problem with reporting on notable sources who say this is an attack, of course. It just shouldn't be done as a narrator. ScratchMarshall (talk) 02:19, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

• Oppose. Naming an article has no bearing on what a jury decides. They will be presented with evidence from the prosecution and defence, and make a decision accordingly. Or perhaps you think the prosecutor will just wave the Wikipedia article and tell the jury it's been determined? Multiple reliable independent sources refer to the incident as an attack, therefore so do we. WWGB (talk) 02:26, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

Oppose. First, the move review hasn't even been closed yet. There are a lot of merit based reasons to oppose as well, with WP:COMMONNAME being the most compelling, but the TL;DR version of these reasons is that it's unwieldy. epicgenius (talk) 03:13, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

Oppose Multiple reliable independent sources clearly refer to the incident as an attack and we retain it also as per WP:COMMONNAME.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 06:27, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

• Oppose There was an attack in Lower Manhattan. You can't dispute that. Hence the title. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 08:05, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. gidonb (talk) 08:49, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Move discussion

The issue is being discussed in Move Review Here anyone wishing to comment can comment there and above this discussion was closed as Snow .Hence see no point in reopening that discussion which was closed as WP:SNOW here hence reverted it.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 14:34, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

A "little aggressive"

described him as a "little aggressive"
Don't you think this should be improved? Is this word choice even correct? Why is there an article at all? Or did the source mean "a little aggressive"? It would change he meaning completely.--Adûnâi (talk) 19:48, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

Cycling in New York City

What's about adding a link to Cycling in New York City? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.193.104.227 (talk) 09:54, 4 November 2017 (UTC)