Talk:Scientific method

The

(Please don't archive this section: it is a resurrecting issue, and a permanent pointer to discussion is useful)

Shouldn't this article begin with a The? Has this debate already been had? Isn't it, "The Scientific method is a body of techniques..." Mathiastck 06:58, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, right at the top of Archive 11, there is debate on the definite article The. --Ancheta Wis 08:17, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Ok well I vote to include "The" next time :) Mathiastck 18:12, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

There is/are "Scientific Method(s)/Process(es)", and then there is "The Scientific Method" - a more general, abstract model: Observation, Hypothesis, Experiment (repeat): this is "The Scientific Method"...it is more of a philosophical model than a process, as the body to which "Scientific Method" can/does refer(s). Am I right in thinking lack of "the" grammatically puts this method in way similar to the term "kung-fu" which is used without "the". For example, one does not say, "he used the kung fu on me!" I think journal citations showing use of "scientific method" minus the definite article "the" will be shown to be typos. One might see if there is a correlation in typo articles and authors of native asian (especially Japanese) toungue. It is known that the definte article is not used similarly in these asian languages as it is in english, and that new or late-comers to English may publish with this typo. Living and working in Berkeley, I have much experience with non-native English speakers of all types and feel the lack of definite article may in fact stem from native asian speaking individuals both authors and editors...unless of course the spirit of english wishes to refer to the scientific method as we do the kung fu. That does sound cool. 76.102.47.125 (talk) 00:51, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Observation, Hypothesis and Experiment are the three primary and fundamental concepts in all methods of science. Experiment: Search the internet for "observation hypothesis experiment". Observation: the majority of results are for "the Scientific Method". Hypothesis: I have just used the scientific method. 71.156.103.213 (talk) 22:10, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

At the outset of the discussion about this issue, User:Wjbeaty pointed out some of the published current discussion in the field per WP:VER and WP:RS. He said: "Many scientists object to ... the very concept The Scientific Method, and they fight to get it removed from grade-school textbooks. Examples:

• D. Simanek, physicist
• J. Denker, physicist
• P. Bridgman, physicist
• R. Feynman, physicist
• W. McComas
• H. Baur, chemist

Experience has taught that scientific method should be viewed as a cluster of techniques or body of techniques. When diagrammed it might look something like a sunflower with an identifiable core with a bunch of petals representing various fields of science. Add or remove a few petals, and it still looks like a sunflower. Kenosis 19:23, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

[Is this the same P. Bridgman who suggested we might see revolutions such as Einstein's relativity earlier if we changed our scientific method: if we payed closer attention to the operations used in measuring (or observing) a phenomenon: if we add operational to the objective and natural requirements of a definition? Bridgman is referring, in the article above, to philosophies of science (IMO), not methodology - on which he has written books and many papers. Geologist (talk) 01:53, 2 February 2008 (UTC)]

My modest opinion: I disagree on "The". A laboratory experiment, a computer simulation, a theoretical model: all may be scientific but are far from using a unique and univocal method. One thing is to single out a body of criteria in order to define if a method of inquiry is scientific, and another is to say that there is only one such method. Also (but I might be wrong), I think there is an implicit usage in Wikipedia so as to use "The..." in reference to a book or a specific theory (e.g. "interpretation of dreams" and "The Interpretation of Dreams"). -- Typewritten 08:21, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

"Experience has taught that scientific method should be viewed as a cluster of techniques"

If this article is about a collection of methods, then the title should be Scientific methods. indil (talk) 02:18, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

A redirect already exists. I personally oppose a page move. This article is referenced by thousands of other articles already, under its current title, and is well-known under its current name. A google search shows that the current title is referenced over 4 times more frequently than the plural. --Ancheta Wis (talk) 11:04, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

This is absurd. The rhythm method isn't specific either: some people use calendars, some people count days, others guess. We still follow correct English grammar. I am WP:BRDing. MilesAgain (talk) 16:47, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

OK, I have done the R so D rather more than you did. This is not an issue of grammar as either is OK from that respect. It is a fundamental question and the balance is on not have the "The" there. --Bduke (talk) 22:18, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

I've changed it to "Scientific method refers to the body of techniques..."; perhaps this is a satisfactory solution? Andareed (talk) 23:39, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes; good. MilesAgain (talk) 12:50, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

I have looked at the Richard Feynman link given above. He does not use the phrase Scientific Mathod", and far from arguing that it should be removed from grade school textbooks, he seems to be arguing strongly that it should be taught. Rjm at sleepers (talk) 08:47, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

• I'm confused. None of those pages seem to insinuate that the problem is the article "the". They seem to contest the idea of the scientific method itself. Then again, I'm very tired, and not at all that attentive to begin with.  Aar  ►  09:30, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

  The best discussion on 'the' that I have seen comes from Mark Twain. One could argue this is all a fine point for those who think in English. There are languages that get along without a 'the', after all. But there is a part of English, the subjunctive mood, which is a good basis for the hypothesis and prediction steps of scientific method, and without which I believe it is hard to explain scientific method. --Ancheta Wis (talk) 20:04, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

• It is an issue of grammar. In titles, the article is commonly and correctly used to refer to a body or cluster of similar things: The Elements of Style; The Working Dog; The Racing Motorcycle; The Successful Investor. "Elements of Style" could be okay because "elements" is plural, but neither "Working Dog" nor "Racing Motorcycle" are suitable titles. Likewise, "Scientific Methods" would be fine. But both "Scientific Method" and "Successful Investor" are awkward and off-putting to native English speakers.````KellyArt 11:07, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

I'm a native English-speaker and it doesn't put me off. "Scientific method" in singular form sans expected article seems like a mass noun. The Tetrast (talk) 05:39, 15 June 2011 (UTC).

But the point is that neither method nor scientific method is a mass noun. Therefore the absence of the article sounds wrong (to many or most speakers). Where is the linguistic argument that native speaker intuition (here, that's a real mass noun, therefore no article is needed) is wrong here? --Florian Blaschke (talk) 13:40, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

By the way, I'm not referring to the title. Scientific method is fine as an article title, but the way scientific method is used in the introduction without an article is plainly ungrammatical. The body of the article uses "the scientific method", showing how ridiculous this insistence on the absence of the article is. See also wikt:scientific method. As pointed out by MilesAgain, the scientific method is a general term and may be used to cover more than one technique, or variant (or part/substructure) of a basic methodical paradigm, compare also methodology, which is often essentially used synonymously with method. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 13:43, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Fine, I have realised that method can indeed be used as a mass noun, but the scientific method is equally possible (and more common, not only according to my own observation but also Wiktionary) and does not imply that there is only a single way of doing scientific research. Also, the article is internally inconsistent in its use of the with scientific method. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 14:24, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

There has been a historical shift in the use of 'definite article'+"scientific method". It was popularized as 'the' in the nineteenth c., but 'the' was eventually shot down in the 20th century. That is the reason that "a scientific method" is attempted usage in the article. I personally shrink from being the bad cop enforcing 'indefinite article'+"scientific method" in this article; you are welcome to enforce this. Note that according to Richard Popkin, when Francisco Sanches (16th c.) innovated use of the idea of a "method of knowing" (modus sciendi in Latin), he apparently published a book in Spanish Metodo universal de las ciencias(the book is now lost) which has no definite article in the title. For citations, see note 49 in history of scientific method, which cites a 1703 reference to the Spanish title. --Ancheta Wis   (talk | contribs) 03:49, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

For the record, back in 2005, User:Adraeus came up with the idea of finessing the controversy over 'the' by simply using indefinite article 'a'. It seems a simple solution. At that time, there were passionate arguments even denying the existence of "the scientific method", which I am afraid will be re-ignited by reverting to the common "the". I admit it is common usage, which simply ignores the arguments from past (or future) editors. --Ancheta Wis   (talk | contribs) 04:45, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

FWIW the absence of "the" sounds extremely wrong to me, and I have never heard it used without "the" in regular discourse. Arc de Ciel (talk) 04:23, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

As per my edit summary, I edited the lead sentence to include both versions. I placed "the" first as the more commonly used. For example, it's the name generally used in educational materials available to the broader public - a couple of educational resources I found quickly are 1 2 3 - there are more as well. Arc de Ciel (talk) 04:38, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

(response to Ancheta) Both versions are still there. It seemed a relatively minor issue to me, which is why I didn't edit it before (plus I didn't think of the compromise of just including both), but then I realized that the perceived awkwardness would reduce ease of reading. There shouldn't be any compromise with accuracy in an encyclopedia, and my impression is that Wikipedia is much better "defended" than it used to be. For example, the Science article seems to have done fine. :-) I've added back the hidden text though, asking for talk page discussion before making changes to the lead sentence. Arc de Ciel (talk) 05:47, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Ancheta, I do not think that the 16th century Spanish title is of any relevance for 20th century English use. According to my observation at least, in Spanish, especially in headlines and titles, similar to Anglophone Headlinese, you can actually drop articles often, anyway, and in fact, the Spanish Wikipedia article uses the article: el método científico. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 12:38, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Ancheta's attempt at resolution is a good one, but when I saw this page in Google results it actually drew my attention to a debate which should be pretty insignificant. I respectfully suggest that an alternative way would be to use the formatting to imply both, as in, "The scientific method . . ." This makes the sentence sound correct to those readers who feel it requires it, but bolds only the actual topic of the article. I'm generally reluctant to engage in or follow this type of debate, so if consensus favors my suggestion, please don't wait for me to make the change.--~TPW 17:31, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Sorry to re-open this can of worms, but much of what is written on this page under the banner of "The Scientific Method" reads like Baconian positivist-inductivist dogma. This model of scientific activity might have been correct in the 16th or 17th centuries - but it is far from correct in the 21st. Modern scientific activity simply does not start with "Observation" (that is the leading fallacy of inductivist dogma). According to Alan Chalmers (a philosopher of science) in "What Is This Thing Called Science?", "inductivism" is defined as the view that "scientific knowledge is to be derived from the observable facts by some kind of inductive inference" - and inductivism has so many problems that it cannot be a valid basis for scientific methdology - let alone _the_ scientific method. So wikipedia looks like promoting a view of science that is fundamentally incorrect. Chalmers argues that inductive generalisations from obervable facts are incapable of yielding scientific knowledge about unobservable entities such as protons and genes. I would suggest that the whole agenda of trying distinguish science from non-science by evaluation of the methods used in the activity is fundamentally flawed. There is no single "the method of science" of "the scientific method". I'd suggest much of this page is moved to a new page entitled "Inductive theories of science", perhaps in a section called "the Baconian theory of science" and that this page is renamed to a much more general topic like "Scientific Methods". Popper argues for a more 'naturalistic' theory of science - based on observation of what scientists do - in "The Logic of Scientific Discovery" - and famously comes to the conclusion that scientific activity is not distinguished by any particular method but by the testability (falsifiability) of the theories it produces. 14:26, 4 April 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ian Glossop (talk • contribs)

@Ian Glossop, Perhaps you might address your concerns with @Whatiguana, who has contributed a graphic attributed to Theodore Garland, Jr. (2015) 'The scientific method as an ongoing process'. It appears that Whatiguana's views are very close to those of Professor Garland, because the upload claim is 'own work'. But we have an implied CC-by-SA here, and I hope we might keep or modify this graphic image, with proper license and attribution, for use in the article. The graphic is addressed to naturalists, who would naturally start with observation, as you point out.

But if you re-examine the article (without the first impression produced from the Garland graphic) you will see that the methodology in the article begins with 'Ask a question', rather than 'Observe'.

Deeper in the article, the 3-step methodology of Charles Sanders Pierce, "A Neglected Argument", begins with 1) 'Muse' (that is, think), in a process of 2) clarification of vague thought, which naturally leads to 3) pragmatic action, in an unending cycle of categorization.

@Sunrise , would you object if the article were to fall back to an article which drops the 'The'? In other words use phrase 'a scientific method' rather than 'the scientific method' in the article. --Ancheta Wis   (talk | contribs) 20:22, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the ping! Yes, I would still object. :-) (And I assume that others who have commented on this issue still would as well!) That said, if any of the above comments can be established as significant (as determined by secondary sources, per WP:WEIGHT) then I certainly wouldn't oppose consideration of new content for the article. Sunrise (talk) 08:25, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

If I may add one more complication to this perennial topic, this Google Ngram search shows that the/The scientific method became the most common usage around 1980, reaching about 55% by 2008, but capitalized, as you'd expect in a title, the/The Scientific Method stayed below 43%.

It seems to still be a marginal case, which may be one factor underlying this long debate. That being said, for historical/philosophical reasons I object to the implication that there is one single scientific method and oppose adding "the" to the title. --SteveMcCluskey (talk) 16:12, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

Well, maybe there are two things here. One is the broad notion of scientific methodology. It's uncontroversial that there are many methodological positions and thoughts about method in science. One substantive and controversial position w/r/t scientific methodology is that there's one general scientific method. I think this article is about the latter. If it is, then it should be careful to note that not everyone agrees that there's a single scientific method. If the article is about scientific methodology in general, then it should present a variety of positions on the topic (including those that dissent from the view that there's a single scientific method). I don't see how data about whether or not people use "the" in front of "scientific method" tells us much unless we know what they're talking about: the proposed single general scientific method, or about scientific methodology in general.128.91.19.22 (talk) 18:52, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

March 2016 I feel there should be at least a minor reference to Emotion. The Scientific Method is based on measurable science. Emotion, being unmeasurable, has no place in The Scientific Method. I feel this method important as I hear, more and more, people attempting to use Emotion in their "Logic." I could not find this in any archive. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.129.123.13 (talk) 15:03, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

Proposed revision of lead paragraph

I propose changing the lead paragraph from:

The Oxford Dictionaries Online defines the scientific method as "a method or procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses".[1] Experiments are a procedure designed to test hypotheses. Experiments are an important tool of the scientific method.[2][3] To be termed scientific, a method of inquiry is commonly based on empirical or measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning.[4]

to:

An empirical method of knowledge acquisition, which has characterized the development of natural science since the 17th century, involving careful observation; formulating hypotheses, via induction, based on such observations; experimental testing and measurement of deductions drawn from the hypotheses; and refinement (or elimination) of the hypotheses based on the experimental findings. These are principles of the scientific method, as opposed to a definitive series of steps applicable to all scientific enterprises.

My proposal would retain citations 1 and 3; remove citations 2 and 4; and add this citation:

Scientific method, n., Oxford English Dictionary (3rd ed.), 2014, OED Online, http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/383323 (subscription required), retrieved May 28, 2018.

Rationale:

(a) Whenever possible, we should not begin an article with a dictionary definition.

(b) I drew on the article content, and the more detailed OED entry, to write the proposed paragraph. Consequently, it provides a more accurate synopsis of the article content and a more comprehensive explanation.

(c) The 3rd sentence in the current lead paragraph is superfluous.

(d) The 4th sentence of the current lede attempts to define "scientific", not "scientific method".

(e) The 4th sentence also includes an undefined phrase, "specific principles of reasoning". The fourth citation seeks to explain those "specific principles of reasoning", but the multi-step reference is confusing:

(i) "[4] Rules for the study of natural philosophy", Newton transl 1999, pp. 794–96, after Book 3, The System of the World. ["Newton transl 1999" links to:]

(ii) Newton, Isaac (1999) [1687, 1713, 1726], Philosophiae Naturalis Principia Mathematica, University of California Press, ISBN 0-520-08817-4, Third edition. From I. Bernard Cohen and Anne Whitman's 1999 translation, 974 pages. [The book title links to the Wikipedia article:]

(iii) Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica

Finding pages 794-96 of the 1999 English translation is no easy task since it is a recently published book one must purchase. Better to link to Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica#Rules of Reasoning in Philosophy, although that section does not describe the "specific principles of reasoning" in a clear, correct, concise, and comprehensible manner.

(g) The 2nd reference, a link to the ScienceMadeSimple.com website--and the quote from the site--provide a simplistic discussion of the topic.

If you (the editors reading this Talk page section) agree with my proposal, but you believe my proposed paragraph would benefit from further editing (I am sure it would!), please have at it here or after we (hopefully) replace the current intro.

Thanks!   - Mark D Worthen PsyD (talk) 06:57, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Newton's rules of reasoning (in English translation) are

1. Occam's razor
2. Newton then applies this razor to ascribe the same causes whenever the same effects are seen
3. More subtly, if the effects are invariant, the observed qualities must be universal
4. The inferences (about mass and matter, in the case of Principia) from 1, 2, and 3 are to be assumed to be true, until proven otherwise

Thanks for lifting up the level of discussion. --Ancheta Wis   (talk | contribs) 20:32, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

• Thank you so much Ancheta Wis! :O)   - Mark D Worthen PsyD (talk) 17:12, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Your contribution has reminded me of Newton's Hypotheses non fingo, translated into contemporary English: "I fake no hypotheses". So Newton's 4 rules of reasoning then yield a pretty good summary of his scientific method: use observations to drive experiment to see which hypotheses survive. (The surviving hypotheses become candidate invariants in a theory.) --Ancheta Wis   (talk | contribs) 12:11, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

• I really like your "translation" of the Newton's 4 rules. When you have time, perhaps you could weave them into the article in an appropriate spot. :O)

Good discussion points. One thing to consider: I can not think of a good citation off hand, but I believe a common thread in all the diverse attempts to formulate scientific method involve (whether they say it or not) being sceptical about the human ability to understand what is going, and methodically so. With Descartes they speak of "methodical skepticism". Bacon wrote about how people are attracted to lies. It might well be the most crucial and radical difference compared to say early Greek natural philosophers.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 21:44, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

I think in any case the above is an improvement, will you go ahead with it @Markworthen:? I think there are refinements which can be made, but it definitely a better foundation to build on for the reasons you mention.

• Just coming back to my point above, which I think should be somehow used, it is arguable that the concept of scientific method goes back to the first Greek natural scientists (or natural philosophers). Certainly the word's application to a careful and planned pursuit of knowledge is Aristotelian Greek. Basic assumptions underlying classical scientific method were already some of the ones which came back in modern time: a minimal metaphysical assumption that nature ("Nature" or indeed the natures of things) works regularly and predictably according to humanly comprehensible "laws" which can be investigated by careful observation. (So it was from the beginning, even before modernity, both empiricist, focused to some extent on observing physical things, and rationalist, assuming and looking for "laws" which can be theorized about.) What Bacon and Descartes added sounds simple but was massively important when we compare to what Aristotelianism had become, and led for example to Newton: 1. be skeptical by default and do not trust human neutrality in observations 2. avoid all metaphysics (apart from the assumption that nature is regular of course).--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 14:04, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

• Thank so much Andrew Lancaster - A good education for me. ;o) I attempted to include your point in the new intro paragraph, which I posted a few minutes ago. Note: On article pages (but not Talk pages), I am unable to use the text editor ("Edit source"), which results in some limitations. I have a ticket submitted to Phabricator to see if other people have experienced a similar problem.   - Mark D Worthen PsyD (talk) 17:19, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Image

[[:File:Photo_51_x-ray_diffraction_image.jpg|thumb|right| (Q:) What is the structure of the gene? (H:) Hypothetically, a helix, (D:) whose Fourier transform would be an X. (E:) Watson sees photo 51, an X-ray diffraction pattern. It is the Fourier transform of DNA's atoms, showing a helical framework. (A:) Watson then shows that DNA's base pairs are equi-shaped rungs forming a helical ladder. The pairs are the genetic code for our life on Earth. See: synopsis of scientific method]] I nominate Photo 51. It is scientific data for the objective basis of the molecular structure of DNA, and its role is described in the article. --Ancheta Wis   (talk | contribs) 01:01, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

A generic image like this would be ok with me. I personally, think no diagram image would be good enough though, since many models of the scientific method are available. Generic images or images of historical figures would be ok. Maybe even images of general science tools would work too. Huitzilopochtli1990 (talk) 01:16, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

Thank you. Might we gain consensus on this? --Ancheta Wis   (talk | contribs) 01:46, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

I generally favor an original image over a diagram. Cheers, Rowan Forest (talk) 02:05, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

References

I think the image is ok. Does not have much to do with a scientific method, but it is ok. Beakers and lab people would work too like this one [1]. Kind of hard to get an image of a person trying to solve a problem because that is what thinking and the scientific methods actually are. As long as we move away from diagrams almost anything will do. Huitzilopochtli1990 (talk) 06:36, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

See Scientific_method#DNA_example, a synopsis of scientific method. The DNA bullet points, as a synopsis of scientific method, have been in the article for 13 years now, since 12 May 2005. They illustrate the hypothetico-deductive method, and Photo 51 is central to Watson's memoir (Footnotes 41-46). The 4 steps of hypothetico-deductive method were actually in this article, before another editor moved it to the sub-page. --Ancheta Wis   (talk | contribs) 07:56, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

Actually, far from being generic, the photo is historic: "The instant I saw the picture my mouth fell open and my pulse began to race."—(James Watson (1968) The Double Helix, p.167 —It is footnote 46 in this article, Scientific_method.) That is the reaction of a scientist who has prepared for something his entire life, and finds it. Other people also find this photo historic. It is the logo of a university. --Ancheta Wis   (talk | contribs) 08:17, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

It's a small touch, but if a reader were to click on one of the bullet points in Scientific_method#DNA_example listed below, the reader could read more about each step, as it had happened in the DNA story:

• Question
• Hypothesis
• Prediction
• Experiment
• Analysis

There are little blue links at the end of each section to follow, and the reader can get a sense of the never-ending cycle in scientific method. This synopsis has been in the article for 13 years now. 12:13, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

The example looks synthesized from multiple sources since the sources does not make explicit claims about the scientific method and DNA. Wikipedia editors made up that example and chose that particular rigid sturcture of the method, not a reliable source. DNA was done by many individuals and none of them followed any particular sequence or methods. But you can use the image. It better than an arbitrary diagram. Perhaps simplify the wording and you are good to go. Huitzilopochtli1990 (talk) 02:55, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

No, the synopsis depicts the thought process: "What is now known, and what do we not know about the explanation, now, at this current moment?" Godfrey-Smith 2003's Hypothetico-deductive method is the citation for the sequence of the synopsis, and the footnotes actually occurred in that historical sequence. But the article states clearly the steps can occur in any order, as in the pieces of a puzzle, as you note. The steps of scientific method traditionally are taught verbally from teacher to student (that point is in Gauch) and could be viewed as mnemonic or rhetorical. The rhetoric is apparently needed for teaching or persuasion. It is observable that successful scientists are master rhetors. Watson's teacher was Salvador Luria; Watson was schooled in Chicago, with a natural history background. Crick's background was in physics, the same as Lawrence Bragg. Franklin's background was similarly rigorous, but in chemistry.

The historical accident that Franklin and Gosling ran the experiment, with no expectation about the result, and that Watson recognized as an application of Crick's Fourier transform of a helix, was persuasive enough to convince Bragg, the very next day, January 31, 1953. Watson and Crick were authorized to resume model-building. (Crick was annoyed at Watson for not measuring the photo, which would have revealed the dimension of the unit cell of the helix. The rest of the data they got from Pauling The Nature of the Chemical Bond, a present to Watson from Crick.) Watson discovered the significance of Chargaff's base-pair ratios, using concrete models one month later, Febrary 28. Those facts show clearly that tampering with the explanation could be ruled out, in this Nobel-quality result.

For the researchers, what was salient was "What was known, and what remains to know, now, at this current moment?" That was the question seemingly inexorably driving the next step of the investigation. But the DNA story actually occurred in the rhetorical order, without tampering with the explanation by any of the principals. So the time-stamping of the events is the objective witness to the integrity of the result, and to the story, which no single individual principal investigator accomplished on their own. Crick himself admitted he could not have discovered it on his own. Watson readily admits his debt to the other principals, such as Crick's sketch of Fourier transforms for the birdwatcher (meaning Watson). Chargaff admitted he did not understand the significance of his own ratios.

There is now a critical edition of The Double Helix which is available for the skeptic.

I propose "On Friday, 30 January 1953, James Watson sees photo 51, an X-ray diffraction pattern, which he recognized as the Fourier transform of the atoms of a helix, as predicted by Francis Crick. This gave rise to their model of the structure of DNA as a double helix, which explains the role of DNA in the mechanism of life on Earth."

I have an observation here: I tried the sentence above, but you would have called it too long. Then I cut back on the caption and found there need to be multiple parts, at the very least, a 'what', a mathematical statement (functional form), and a functional significance.

At least the rewording provokes additional questions in the reader. So I added a link to the synopsis, and found there are wiki links for a surprising number of terms in the caption. Clearly a community at work here.

--Ancheta Wis   (talk | contribs) 12:36, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

References

Ok. This should be easy then. You said, "Godfrey-Smith 2003's Hypothetico-deductive method is the citation for the sequence of the synopsis, and the footnotes actually occurred in that historical sequence." So if that is the case, then summarize his sequence for the link between DNA and the scientific method and that should be the caption. I have read about the history of DNA before, but the question is always the same. Does the source make the claims of DNA with respect to the scientific method or not. In the article Godfrey-Smith is not cited for the DNA example. Only for the scientific method. But if you can summarize his footnotes as a caption, that would be good. Huitzilopochtli1990 (talk) 18:49, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

I formatted Godfrey-Smith: the mapping is Q=question, H=hypothesis, D=deduction from the hypothesis, E=experiment, A=analysis, etc in never-ending cycle. Godfrey-Smith used numbers for his steps, but the application to DNA is clear. It's in the caption, now. I annotated the English caption with Q,H,D,E,A

The footnote order by date, and place in the method:

Q: 1940s 40

H: Oct 1951 41

D: 1952 44, 42, 43

E: 30 Jan 1953.45, 46.

A: 28 Feb 1953 47.

etc. for the endless cycle

--Ancheta Wis   (talk | contribs) 21:29, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Ok. Looks good to me. Huitzilopochtli1990 (talk) 22:32, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Model of DNA with David Deutsch, proponent of invariant scientific explanations. See synopsis of scientific method

I have been casting for a suitable image that entails photo 51, which is a non-free image, unfortunately. That photo's use is restricted to its own article, and is specifically enjoined from any other kind of display. But there is another image involving DNA that could be used in its place. Rather than the "E:" stage, experiment, the replacement image involves the "H:" and "D:" stages, hypothesis and deduction from the hypothesis. The replacement image shows a molecular model of DNA ("A:" stage as of 1 March 1953), and a researcher David Deutsch proposing a new way to expound an "H:" stage (his 'find an explanation' stage 2009).

---

The topic of "Q:" remains unchanged (invariant), namely "given what we knew before 30 January 1953, explain the physical structure of the gene". Before that date, H, D, and A remained unknown, or TBD (to be determined) with certainty (no one knew yet). On 30 January 1953, Franklin and her student Gosling were at the E: stage, independent of "H:", "D:", or "A:". In fact, on that date, Franklin (and Chargaff) was skeptical of anything Crick or Watson would ever do, because she (and Watson and Crick) knew Pauling's helix hypothesis (mooted explanation) was incorrect: "of course its wrong. DNA is not a helix", and scares Watson away. Watson retreats to Wilkins' office, who commiserates, and shows Watson photo 51, which triggered the cascade of findings leading up to the molecular model of DNA next to David Deutsch.

Photo 51 (E:) corroborates Crick and Watson's hypothesis (H:), Crick's deduction (D:) from H, namely that we are to expect that a Fourier transform of a helix be an X-shape. A: Watson has just corroborated D:. He sees an X-shape, as of 30 January 1953. The Q for 29 January 1953 is now resolved (for one person, James Watson, he can now look for a new cascade of Q H D etc.).

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After 30 January 1953, the new Q, for Watson, is 'justify the composition of the rungs of the helical ladder'. (The explanation of the rungs of the helical ladder was discovered by Watson 28 February 1953.). A never-ending cycle of Qs and As because scientific method does not terminate; the search just moves to another level of question (a new Q arises after an A is settled.).

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The new image was not as simple to explain, because it involved 2 cycles of Q H D E A. But Photo 51, as Fourier transform of a helix of DNA, its X-ray diffraction pattern, is not as easy to understand as the molecular model of DNA. (And David Deutsch's views are the start of yet another cycle, not yet discussed in this article. Briefly, tampering with an invariant explanation would not be feasible, if we as a community, were to embrace Deutsch's views.)

Might this image be acceptable? --Ancheta Wis   (talk | contribs) 17:29, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

Sure. As long as we move away from the diagrams. Generic pics like this new one with Deutsch are ok. Huitzilopochtli1990 (talk) 05:11, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

Thank you. --Ancheta Wis   (talk | contribs) 05:25, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

"John Stewart Mill"

In the History section of the article, a "John Stewart Mill" is mentioned. I believe it is intended to be John Stuart Mill. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fjsuarez89 (talk • contribs) 01:34, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

The change was apparently introduced here. Fixed, Thank you. --Ancheta Wis   (talk | contribs) 02:18, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 March 2019

The edit made: Revision as of 00:21, 31 May 2018 resulted in a grammatically incorrect sentence. Specifically, the text was changed FROM: "In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, a debate over ..." TO: "In the late 19th a debate over ..." Sorry, but I don't know the facts well enough to offer an appropriate alternative. 24.84.198.185 (talk) 19:02, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

I will revert as a poorly formed, hasty action without enough thought to merit consideration. --Ancheta Wis   (talk | contribs) 21:42, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

The change includes the term "No scientific authorities ...". Just who is granting this authority. More specifically, who is claiming the title "scientific authorities"? --Ancheta Wis   (talk | contribs) 23:06, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

It's an entangled change. This will take time. --Ancheta Wis   (talk | contribs) 22:49, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

 Done I've restored the text " and early 20th centuries" from the revision as of 00:21, 31 May 2018. NiciVampireHeart 19:29, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Metascience

I would like to see some talk of metascience in this article. While relatively new, the subject seems highly relevant.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiman2718 (talk • contribs)

See the references to confirmation bias in the metascience article, which discuss blinding; we would expect blinding to remove bias. In the scientific method article, historically, a search for truth ("As scientists we must be our own worst enemy"—Feynman's paraphrase of Alhacen), balanced by skepticism (Francisco Sanches), gave rise to the scientific method (William Stanley Jevons). The ability to 'think outside the box', and socratic method also seem to be influences on the scientific method. --Ancheta Wis   (talk | contribs) 09:43, 9 May 2019 (UTC) updated 21:42, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

@Ancheta Wis: I'm not entirely sure what you mean. I don't see the connection between metascience and confirmation bias. Wikiman2718 (talk) 20:55, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

@Wikiman2718: see Metascience_(research)#Physics quoted here:"Richard Feynman noted that estimates of physical constants were closer to published values than would be expected by chance. Physicists now implement blinding to prevent confirmation bias.:

• When a narrative is constructed its elements become easier to believe. (Imre Lakatos (1976), Proofs and Refutations).
• Goldhaber and Nieto published a review of their subject in 2010, in which they review the reliability of their physical values. In it they observe that "if theoretical structures with many closely neighboring subjects are described by connecting theoretical concepts then the theoretical structure .. becomes increasingly hard to overturn". Personally, I do not consider this observation to be a defect, as scientific theories need to be clear.

I submit the citations of Lakatos, and also of Goldhaber and Nieto as my reply. --Ancheta Wis   (talk | contribs) 21:42, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

References