Talk:Gavin McInnes

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Lead's initial description of subject

It seems inappropriate to suggest that the subject is better known for "promoting violence against his political opponents" than he is for co-founding Vice Magazine, the far-right group Proud Boys, or his polemical political commentary. TuffStuffMcG (talk) 14:26, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Masem: is an editor who is good at focusing on WP:NPOV. Perhaps they would have some views on this. I am not agree or disagreeing with OP though, if McInnes is most notable for that then that is what we must include in the article. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 21:07, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

His founding of Vice and Proud Boys should be top of the list, and you can make the argument that he is far-right, but not an extremist and his rhetoric doesn’t help his “calls to violence.” All the incidents of him or the Proud Boys being violent has been a result of them being attacked first. JudeTheDude2014 (talk) 03:56, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don't like Gavin McInnes because I'm the opposite of him with regard to views but I don't think it's fair to just label people who have views you may find extreme the same as someone who incites violence. 2A02:C7F:4E0B:F400:A180:B24B:A77D:5811 (talk) 14:53, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm absolutely against McInnes' hateful views, but I don't think this lead successfully achieves Wikipedia's core value of neutrality. Simply "Gavin McInnes is a Canadian writer and political commentator" would be far better. The violence McInnes has promoted against political opponents is amply discussed in the article itself. Putting an unsourced and negative claim in the lead over far more relevant information like his founding of Vice and the Proud Boys is poor practice (and by getting Wikipedia to weaken its neutrality standards against him, it only gives the provocateur McInnes what he wants). Anon — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8807:C140:259:857B:5809:314D:B87D (talk) 16:28, 29 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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In Personal life, please add that he converted to Catholicism after being atheist. https://www.lifesitenews.com/mobile/blogs/gavin-mcinnes-i-was-a-pro-choice-atheist-then-i-had-kids.-now-im-a-god-fear https://www.patrickcoffin.media/the-banning-of-gavin-mcinnes/

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Melmann 15:28, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Right of center humorist?

In a brief last year I see "Opposition to defendant SPLC's motion by dismiss the lawsuit by controversial right-of-center humorist Gavin McInnes seeking relief for deplatforming and defunding campaign by the Southern Poverty Law Center based on various legal theories of recovery".[1] I don't think we'll be adding that as part of his description! --Doug Weller talk 12:45, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 5 January 2021

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Gavin McInnes is NOT known for asking for violence... You guys are Liars. Antifa IS known for violence.... 69.165.215.37 (talk) 21:09, 5 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 22:13, 5 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

unfortunately, he literally called for violence in more than one public address, although it isn't clear if he called for unlawful violence. "In one speech he gave at New York University last year after a clash with Antifa, in he said, "Violence doesn't feel good, justified violence feels great, and fighting solves everything.” In another speech he gave in Feb. 2017, he said, “I want violence. I want punching in the face.”

https://abcnews.go.com/US/proud-boys-founder-denies-inciting-violence-responds-feels/story?id=59758209 TuffStuffMcG (talk) 22:20, 5 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Proud Boys, a neo-fascist political group.[1][2]

The third sentence into Gavin McInnes Wikipedia bio refers to the group the "Proud Boys" as "neo-fascist" using two footnotes as substantiation of the label. See:

he has drawn attention for his far-right political activism and his role as the founder of the Proud Boys, a neo-fascist political group.[1][2]

[1] "Founder of Proud Boys hate group shows up at hospital rally to support Trump". The Independent. 4 October 2020. Retrieved 12 October 2020. [2] "Swiping Right: The Allure of Hyper Masculinity and Cryptofascism for Men Who Join the Proud Boys". ResearchGate. Retrieved 12 October 2020.

The first footnote engages in ad hominem attacks on the group calling it "anti-Muslin" and "white nationalistic."

The second footnote relies on an academia paper that calls McInnes a "racist" after making the comment (in the fifth paragraph) that 25% of Muslims thought that suicide bombing was "sometimes or often justified." The source of the statistic wasn't mentioned but nonetheless the author labels McInnes as a racist for that alone.

None of the above are substantial evidence that the Proud Boys are a "neo-facist" group and the description should be qualified as being mere opinion of two individuals.

Nicki_Toretto (talk) 04:04, 20 January 2021 (UTC)Pitz[reply]

This has already been discussed in tedious detail at Talk:Proud Boys. Per that article, here are just some sources describing the Proud Boys as fascist or neo-fascist:

HoSang, Daniel (2019). Producers, Parasites, Patriots: Race and the New Right-Wing Politics of Precarity. University of Minnesota Press. p. 2. ISBN 9781452960340. [...] groups such as the protofascist Proud Boys [...].
Vitolo-Haddad, CV (June 11, 2019). "The Blood of Patriots: Symbolic Violence and 'The West'". Rhetoric Society Quarterly. 49 (3): 280–296. doi:10.1080/02773945.2019.1610641. S2CID 197691454 – via Taylor & Francis Online. Proud Boys [...] advance a fascist politic [...].
McLaren, Peter (2020). "Are those whiffs of fascism that I smell? Living behind the orange curtain". Educational Philosophy and Theory. 52 (10): 1011–1015. doi:10.1080/00131857.2019.1672854. S2CID 210460061. Archived from the original on December 13, 2019. Retrieved October 1, 2020 – via Taylor & Francis Online. [...] the hate-filled, far-right neo-fascist organization, Proud Boys.
Kutner, Samantha (2020). "Swiping Right: The Allure of Hyper Masculinity and Cryptofascism for Men Who Join the Proud Boys" (PDF). International Centre for Counter-Terrorism: 1. JSTOR resrep25259. Conclusion: Proud Boys represent a new face of far-right extremism. [...] This study explored the pull factors surrounding recruitment, the ways members describe precarity, and the communicative features that mark the group as a violent, cryptofascist extremist organization.
Barry, Dan; McIntire, Mike; Rosenberg, Matthew (January 9, 2021). "'Our President Wants Us Here': The Mob That Stormed the Capitol". The New York Times. ISSN 0362-4331. Retrieved January 10, 2021. Some were aligned with the neofascist Proud Boys …

There are many more where that came from. Reliable sources are not obligated to provide "evidence" to your individual satisfaction. Reliable sources do not treat this as a mere opinion, and Wikipedia reflects reliable sources. Grayfell (talk) 08:57, 20 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, what you said is the opposite of the truth: a reliable source would treat this assertion as purely opinion. Wikipedia most certainly does not reflect reliable sources. 2603:7000:B23E:3056:4022:ADB5:8B5A:2D3C (talk) 11:35, 14 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 25 March 2021

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Gavin is not a neo-fascist. The words “neo-fascist” and “terrorist” are not factually correct.

He is pro democracy and pro capitalism. The proud boys are a patriotic group that includes all races. There is not a single instance of Gavin being a literal terrorist. 71.75.144.221 (talk) 12:07, 25 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]