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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 2601:18c:8c01:370:802e:5f97:fd21:a67c (talk) at 21:33, 6 January 2023 (→Combining Declared+Other Declared: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.


Corey Stapleton?

Corey Stapleton has been open about considering a run for office, and seemingly has a website outright announcing his candidacy. I don't know if he's officially filed, but all signs seem to suggest that he is indeed planning to run. Should we add him onto the 'Openly Expressed Intent' section, or is there something that I'm missing here? Walpole2019 (talk) 08:04, 10 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Walpole2019 He was listed earlier, I believe. I think he was removed because he wasn't a "major" candidate. David O. Johnson (talk) 16:15, 10 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Why is Corey Stapleton even in the same section of the article as Trump? It would make far more sense for him to be located in some sort of "notable individuals who are not major candidates section", such as where Zoltan Istvan and Bob Ely are located in the 2020 GOP primary page. ThatOneGuyWithAFork (talk) 03:42, 16 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Polling change

I belive that a candidate should not have a place in the main polling box for the Trump and non-Trump categories until they hit double digits. Right now, it is very confusing to editors and viewers to have so much date for candidates polling with very low numbers. I would like to change this as soon as possible. GeorgeBailey (talk) 17:28, 13 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Corey Stapleton

Stapleton has held statewide office. Why is he at the bottom of the section in terms of candidates? Declared candidates should be at the top, or at least above potential and undeclared candidates. GeorgeBailey (talk) 19:52, 15 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Several reasons. Being a state's secretary of state is not a high enough office to automatically qualify a candidate as a major candidate. He has not been included in any national polls yet. And his presidential candidacy has received little coverage from mainstream media sources (personally, I can't find any such coverage in the last six months, much less since he declared his candidacy). --Metropolitan90 (talk) 23:42, 15 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Misleading information

"Donald Trump was defeated by President Joe Biden by over 7 million votes in 2020"

And? The US president is NOT determined by the winner of a national popular vote and rather by 50 different popular votes, one for each individual state. 93.206.53.87 (talk) 21:12, 15 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

True. He still lost in a landslide! Augusthorsesdroppings10 (talk) 03:54, 16 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Endorsement Section

The endorsement section of DeSantis seems at best premature. This article states he has not publicly stated his intention. Several of the endorsements don't even read as endorsements for President. I think it should be removed. Mpen320 (talk) 03:54, 16 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Do not list Corey Stapleton as a major candidate

Some editor or editors apparently are trying to push Corey Stapleton as a major candidate in this article. This appears to be against consensus. (See discussion at Talk:2024 United States presidential election/Archive 1#Request for comments on which presidential candidates should be considered "major".) As I mentioned above, being a state's secretary of state is not a prominent enough office to confer major candidate status. Stapleton has been included in zero polls that I know of. Also, he has received little if any news media coverage that I can find. (Note that the source cited for his candidacy is his own campaign's press release.) Can we agree that Stapleton should be demoted to the "Other declared candidates" section? --Metropolitan90 (talk) 04:37, 16 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No. I think we should be inclusive and add Stapleton running to be as accurate as possible, since he's one of two people who have announced. It doesn't hurt anybody to have him accurately in. If he's shunned from media and not included in polls, we can reconsider? GeorgeBailey (talk) 13:20, 16 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
On the contrary, something like 139 people have filed statements of candidacy with the FEC as Republican presidential candidates for 2024. [1] Although Stapleton is notable enough to have a Wikipedia article, he is not yet notable as a 2024 presidential candidate. Rather than saying, "if he's shunned from media and not included in polls, we can reconsider", we should hold off on promoting him to a major candidate until he is included in polls or is covered in media. Maybe he will achieve that, and maybe he won't. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 15:33, 16 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nobody is notable as a candidate for an election that is such a long time away. Stapleton fits Wikipedia's notability requirements and has held an office notable enough that it also has it's own page. We should maintain accuracy above all else. Give it some time, and if nothing happens, I see where you're coming from. But since the elections are so far away, keeping this as is doesn't hurt anybody. GeorgeBailey (talk) 18:21, 16 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
If we're concerned about accuracy, wouldn't our representation of the current stage of this nascent primary season be more accurate if we reflected what the reliable sources say rather than giving Stapleton undue prominence? If he gets recognition as a major candidate later, than we should treat him like one, but he isn't at the moment. Placing him next to Trump under the assumption that he might become relevant later is faulty reasoning. - EditDude (talk) 02:22, 17 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
He has held political office, however i feel we should wait because the election is still very far away. News outlets have not reported on stapleton, because he is only testing the waters for a run. 73.247.81.254 (talk) 22:47, 16 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I would argue that his status as a state legislator and an occupant of one of the main statewide row offices qualifies him sufficiently to be included as a "major" candidate, with such a small field of candidates with Wikipedia pages there are right now. Like they said above, maybe reconsider if he's ignored by the press. Tristanthebard (talk) 02:18, 17 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That relates to what I wrote a few months ago at Talk:2024 United States presidential election/Archive 2#Corey Stapleton: "... we shouldn't over-promote minor candidates just because they enter the race at a time when few others have done so and we don't have much else to write about in this article ...." Also, it's not the case that news outlets have not reported on Stapleton because he is only testing the waters, for two reasons: (1) Stapleton has already filed his candidacy with the FEC and is no longer testing the waters, yet has not received noticeable media coverage since declaring his candidacy, and (2) news outlets often report on potential candidates who have merely formed an exploratory committee or even those who are merely being speculated to run -- provided that those people are expected to become major candidates if they run. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 02:33, 17 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
What matters is getting national media coverage of the candidacy. Stapleton doesn't have that. He has his own campaign's press release being circulated through Yahoo News. I've removed him. 25stargeneral (talk) 02:21, 17 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Based on the available reliable sources, it's absurd to suggest that Trump and Stapleton are on the same tier of relevancy. Until the major news outlets start treating Stapleton like a notable candidate, we shouldn't be unnecessarily promoting him or his campaign. - EditDude (talk) 02:22, 17 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
There shouldn't be an "other declared candidates" section. Either they're relevant or they're not. Hundreds of nobodies file to run. 25stargeneral (talk) 02:28, 17 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Most of those "Hundreds of nobodies" also lack Wikipedia pages, while a select few, like Stapleton, have one, so they are worth mentioning somewhere in this page like an "Other declared candidates" section. Atriskofmistake (talk) 22:46, 18 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I did a quick search and Stapleton's exploratory committee announcement appears to have gotten some traction in media across the country, see Montana, Oklahoma, Florida. However, I couldn't find any coverage of the declaration of his candidacy except a press release [2]. It seems odd to cut someone who's exploratory committee got enough coverage for inclusion entirely from the article because their announcement didn't get enough coverage.TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 02:52, 17 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
On top of that, both the 2020 Democratic and Republican primary pages, as well as the 2024 Democratic primaries page, features candidates with Wikipedia articles who weren't covered by mainstream news outlets. Stapleton should be mentioned in the article, just not to the same degree as Trump, who is a more obvious frontrunner at this early stage. Perhaps we could do away with the gallery and just have a list of candidates and their qualifications there. - EditDude (talk) 03:10, 17 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Is there any way to get rid of all galleries in election articles? They seem like a sneaky way to ever so slightly boost a "Wikipedia presence," in favor of candidates who have uploaded a photo.--Mpen320 (talk) 04:19, 17 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Elections and Referendums/Archive 22#Image galleries for non-Presidential primary candidates was an RfC that ended in the removal of galleries from non-presidential races this year. But this is a presidential race, so there would probably need to be another RfC to remove galleries here. TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 04:29, 17 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I do not believe that a state secretary of state should be qualified automatically as a major candidate. If he garners media attention or is included in significant polls, then he can be added. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 03:31, 18 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Stapleton's run did get noted in a local news source. https://helenair.com/news/state-and-regional/govt-and-politics/former-mt-secretary-of-state-announces-presidential-bid/article_7126a007-089a-5392-8390-f197d41fddb1.html I think he's notable that he should be listed but not as a major candidate.ObieGrad (talk) 20:06, 20 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
As I mentioned above, I would be fine if Stapleton were listed in an "Other declared candidates" candidates section, like how Bob Ely, Jack Fellure, Augustus Invictus, and Zoltan Istvan are treated in 2020 Republican Party presidential primaries#Other candidates. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 22:34, 20 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Why should we include anyone who hasn't gotten national media coverage at all? Local news is not significant enough for a presidential run. 25stargeneral (talk) 23:53, 20 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Because the standard for inclusion is verifiability and reliable sourcing. National media coverage is a proxy for WP:UNDUE that may justify a separate section for non-serious candidates, but undue concerns do not justify their exclusion from the article when their candidacy is verifiable and reliably sourced. TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 00:34, 21 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That's actually not the standard for inclusion. It's a prerequisite. We have a policy that verifiability does not guarantee inclusion. Due weight determines inclusion, so being undue is exactly the reason it should not be included. 25stargeneral (talk) 01:29, 21 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
WP:UNDUE tells us "Neutrality requires that mainspace articles and pages fairly represent all significant viewpoints that have been published by reliable sources, in proportion to the prominence of each viewpoint in the published, reliable sources." WP:UNDUE is a balancing test. Only tiny minority views are supposed to be entirely excluded under WP:UNDUE ("the views of tiny minorities should not be included at all"). Campaign announcements covered in local ABC/FOX affiliates aren't really the views undue is talking about. The policy cites flat earthers as their example. When WP:V is clearly met with a reliable source and the detail is a significant minor detail inclusion is warranted. I think Stapleton is barely meeting the requirements for inclusion, but it seems to me he meets them. I'm fine excluding candidates that get no media coverage outside their own press releases, blogs, FEC filing, etc. under WP:UNDUE, but newspaper and/or local broadcast and radio journalism coverage seems like good enough coverage to warrant inclusion. We don't even have a clear consensus of what "national media coverage" is. How do we apply that standard? TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 02:26, 21 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You don't have to link the same policy four times in one reply. I'm aware of it. WP:VNOT is still a thing, which you have not addressed. If the candidate can only generate human interest coverage from his home state, then yes, that is not a significant aspect of the topic of this article. Under VNOT, you have to convince other editors of why it improves the article. That's a stretch when no serious commentary on the primaries has ever even mentioned Stapleton. It's ridiculous that editors want to spend so much time arguing we need to dedicate article space to obvious joke candidacies. 25stargeneral (talk) 03:16, 21 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
WP:VNOT is about consensus building. 2 editors and one IP have advocated total removal. 5 editors have advocated inclusion in an other notable candidates section and 2 editors have advocated inclusion as a major candidate with Trump. The consensus isn't leaning towards your position. TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 04:45, 21 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Hill posted an article today titled "2024 Tracker: Here’s who is running for the GOP nomination". They listed in the "Running" section Donald Trump; in the "Unclear" section Ron DeSantis, Ted Cruz, and Kristi Noem; in the "Considering a bid" section Nikki Haley, Mike Pence, and Mike Pompeo; in the "Other possible candidates" section Larry Hogan, Chris Christie, and Tim Scott; and in the "Not running" section Tom Cotton. Notice anyone who didn't get mentioned at all? This guy. Because he's not a major candidate yet. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 20:52, 24 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Parallel endorsements section

I noticed there was an endorsements section for Donald Trump at the Donald Trump 2024 presidential campaign article, in addition to the one on this article. Would a transclusion there, linking to the Trump section of this article, be the best way to avoid any redundancy? David O. Johnson (talk) 05:02, 16 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ron Desantis

Should we move desantis from potential to publicly expressed interest? I feel like he , as a major candidate, should be above considering he is the favorite to win at the moment. 73.247.81.254 (talk) 22:48, 16 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Probably not at this time, at least given that; while there's been plenty of media speculation about a Ron DeSantis entry into the race, there haven't been any sources so far confirming that DeSantis personally has expressed any interest in running. WAVY 10 Fan (talk) 23:11, 16 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Best we wait. DeSantis may choose to serve his entire second term as Florida governor. GoodDay (talk) 23:12, 18 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Roger Stone's endorsement of Donald Trump (source)

The present source for Stone's endorsement of Trump doesn't actually say that Stone endorsed Trump. It gives some of Stone's commentary on Trump, DeSantis, and the possible 2024 primary. It certainly implies Stone supports Trump, but other than calling Stone a 'Trump loyalist', it doesn't really say so outright.


I tried adding this CNN news release as a source for Stone: <https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/15/politics/trump-2024-presidential-bid> (I think I was unable to just because I don't know how.) In the last paragraph of the section 'Beating Others to the Punch', it says, 'Other guests [at Trump's announcement] included longtime Trump adviser Roger Stone...'. If attendance at Trump's speech can be taken as tantamount to endorsement, this would seem more unambiguous than the other source (although I was trying to add, not replace). Toadmore (talk) 02:23, 17 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Trump-DeSantis?

If Trump wins the 2024 Republican presidential nomination, then chose DeSantis as his vice presidential running mate. One of them would have to change their state residency, as both can't receive electoral votes from Florida, as a ticket. Note in 2000, Cheney had to change his state residency from Texas to Wyoming, so that both Bush & himself, could receive the prez & vice prez electoral votes from Texas. GoodDay (talk) 22:41, 18 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Looking for info on fringe candidates

I've heard that over 100 fringe candidates have already declared. I came here hoping to learn more about them, but I don't see any discussion of the subject. Nogoodbooks (talk) 17:28, 19 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Kanye West

1. Is it confirmed that he's even running in the Republican primary?

2. Should he be listed if he hasn't yet filed with the FEC? Perathian (talk) 17:14, 23 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Neither of the cited sources say that West is planning to run as a Republican, and considering that he ran under his own party in 2020, we can't just assume it either. He is already listed at 2024 United States presidential election#Declared intent to run in the section for independents, other third parties, and unknown parties. West should not be listed in the Republican primaries article at least unless it is confirmed that he will run as a Republican (not to mention that he needs to be ascertained as a major candidate to be listed in the top section of the article alongside Trump). --Metropolitan90 (talk) 17:20, 23 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Why Stapleton as "Other declared candidate"

I do not think Corey Stapleton should be treated as just "Other declared candidate", I understand the case that he is nowhere near the top in the main choices for a potential GOP primary, but he is still a significant figure, and I consider every figure that held a statewide office should classify as a notable candidate, this unless the list gets increasingly bigger, but with only 2 individuals as declared candidates he should be treated the same as Trump. SuperGion915 (talk) 03:15, 26 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • I could be wrong, but it's not my impression that the editors who are pushing Stapleton to a more prominent place in this article are doing so out of support for him as a presidential candidate, but mainly because they want to have more content in this article. But "holding any statewide office" does not have a consensus to be a criterion to be considered a major candidate. The pollsters don't recognize Stapleton as a major candidate yet. The national media haven't acknowledged him as a candidate at all yet. Why should Wikipedia put Stapleton on a level where we portray him as competitive with Trump? Or even competitive with, say, Nikki Haley or Mike Pompeo if they join the race? --Metropolitan90 (talk) 04:11, 26 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The 2020 Republican Party presidential primaries article lists Rocky De La Fuente as a "major candidate" for the 2020 Republican primaries, even though he had no previous electoral office, and was notorious as a perennial candidate who ran for various local offices around the country. So seems like for a consistent standard, Corey Stapleton would be just as notable. Perathian (talk) 04:48, 26 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
2020 is year with an incumbent president running and not an open primary for the nomination. So first off they aren't really comparable races and that can account for style differences. Second, La Fuente is different in the quality of sourcing. It's a large newspaper source with an identifiable author. The sourcing for Stapleton's campaign is a Montana newspaper piece with no individual author identified. It reads like a press release with no analysis. Source quality is important when weighing prominence in the article for WP:UNDUE. Until his campaign gets solid coverage in better sources, he should remain in a separate category. His notability for holding statewide office is enough for inclusion, in my opinion, but there isn't sourcing that covers him as a major candidate. TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 05:00, 26 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
As you can see from the discussion at Talk:2020 Republican Party presidential primaries/Archive 2#De La Fuente and polls, the decision to list De La Fuente as a major candidate was controversial, and it didn't happen until he had been in the race for 8 months. The reason for that was that we had a criterion that a candidate included in 5 national polls would be deemed a major candidate, and in December 2019 one poll (YouGov/Economist) started including De La Fuente in its weekly poll, thus enabling him to meet the 5-poll criterion. Some editors thought that criterion was too lenient given that it allowed a candidate not widely recognized as major to be listed as major, but that was the criterion we had set beforehand. We shouldn't set our criteria so as to specifically include or specifically exclude certain candidates. At any rate, De La Fuente just barely scraped into major candidate status on one criterion, which Stapleton has not satisfied at all. The example of Rocky De La Fuente is probably an argument in favor of making our poll criterion tougher, not for deeming more non-major candidates as major. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 05:35, 26 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Should a declined to endorse section be added?

many people in the articles say they are indifferent to trump's announcement or are not willing to comment. Should these people get a declined to endorse box? Free city of stratford ok (talk) 15:58, 29 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Not yet, because those people may still endorse another candidate. The "declined to endorse" box are for people who have specifically stated they will not endorse any candidate. -- Vrivasfl (talk) 16:23, 1 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

What happened to the polling graph?

Was removed by Syaz. Why is that? GeorgeBailey (talk) 16:25, 5 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This article should either have massive amounts of on-topic info added, or be sent to AfD

THere's virtually nothing in this messy complication [compilation, forgive the typo] of random data that actually discusses presidential primaries. The lede is devoted to lengthy discussion of Donald Trump rather than the article's supposed subject. Where's the guarantee there will even be a Republican primary process in 2024? Townlake (talk) 04:54, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This "messy complication of random data" is what most presidential primary articles look like. David O. Johnson (talk) 05:33, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Other pages and silly typos aside, my point about this article stands. Maybe this data will be useful when and if primaries actually start, but for now the article is not at all about the article subject. Townlake (talk) 16:37, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure why you're suggesting that the Republican presidential primaries might not be held at all. Even in 2020, when there was an incumbent Republican president with only half-hearted opposition, as well as a pandemic which disrupted pretty much everyone's life, all of which might discourage the holding of primaries, the majority of states still held Republican primaries. The Rules of the Republican Party indicate that there will be some kind of delegate selection process (see Rule No. 16), and I haven't heard of any states seeking to abolish their 2024 presidential primaries and replace them with caucuses or conventions. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 01:20, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Show me a link that says Republican primaries will definitely be held, and I'll cheerfully drop it. Townlake (talk) 03:09, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Last call before AFD. Can anyone produce a source confirming the 2024 Republican nomination will be decided via primaries? Townlake (talk) 05:38, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_deletion#Please_review_2024_Republican_Party_presidential_primaries. Posted to AFD talk page for discussion. Best wishes everyone. Townlake (talk) 04:13, 15 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Bob Iger

Bob Iger was listed as a candidate who filed paperwork. The paperwork in question is dubious and almost definitely a hoax. It's linked here: https://web.archive.org/web/20221222041241/https://docquery.fec.gov/cgi-bin/forms/P40010167/1672914/ Oswako (talk) 04:32, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You are probably correct, I can't find any RS articles about this, which I would certainly expect if Iger had filed to run (and as a Republican no less!). Jacoby531 (talk) 04:49, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Decision Pending?

Somewhere along the line "Announcement scheduled" melted into "Decision Pending" which to me seems indistinguishable from "Publicly Expressed Interest". We are expecting a decision one way or another at some point from everyone wo has expressed interest. I don't see a meaningful difference between Hutchinson, whose decision is nebulously expected by April, from Mike Pence, who is basically already campaigning, and whose decision also expected sometime soon, likely by April, too. Someone who has an announcement scheduled with a specific time and place for said announcement is worth noting separately. Otherwise, "Decision Pending" doesn't strike me as a useful subsection. Vrivasfl (talk) 20:45, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Should a background section be included on this page?

I think it would be a good idea to include a section on how the public opinion of Donald Trump within the Republican Party has declined during his post-presidency. Utopiayouser (talk) 21:44, 5 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Combining Declared+Other Declared

The section “Other Declared Candidates” is not really needed, obviously we are not going to add extremely minor candidates but people like Corey Stapelton and John Bolton have held high profile positions and were reported on by the media. 2601:18C:8C01:370:802E:5F97:FD21:A67C (talk) 21:33, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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