Wikipedia:Teahouse

GreenMeansGo, a Teahouse host

Welcome to the Teahouse!
Your go-to place for friendly help with using and editing Wikipedia.

Ask a question

Question forumMeet your hostsArticles to improveBecome a host

New to Wikipedia? See our tutorial for new editors or introduction to contributing page.
Note: Newer questions appear at the bottom of the Teahouse. Completed questions are archived within 2-3 days.

Help Wikipedia

Biographical stub for entertainer

This question was archived here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive_1193#Biographical_stub_article_for_a_self-improvement_coach Not sure if I'm following the correct procedure to revive discussion. Please advise.

The article stub is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Venzen/sandbox I have followed previous suggestions to cite references. Kindly comment. venzen (talk) 07:31, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

@Venzen You have still not shown how he meets Wikipedia's definition of notability. For example, your citation #10 looks promising until one reads that it was "produced in partnership with Ascend Agency": presumably his PR company. Hence it is not WP:INDEPENDENT. You need about three sources which meet these criteria. You might find it helpful to read this essay on writing articles. Long interviews on YouTube are equally not independent. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:13, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for the feedback, Mike. I did not notice the Ascend Agency partnership in ref #10. Will keep on looking - possibly reduce the amount of early life info to reduce reliance on 3rd party interviews. As for notability, does the externally verified award and several nominations not qualify? Those same award and nomination organisations seem to have established notability for most other pornstars. venzen (talk) 12:12, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

According to XRCO Awards, "XRCO members are asked to submit their own nominations", so I'm not very impressed by mere nominations. As to winning, this would be more convincing if backed up by a reliable WP:SECONDARY source, preferably with WP:SIGCOV of Cooper. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:41, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Noted, Mike, thank you for the pointers. venzen (talk) 07:19, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

I understand that XRCO self-publication of awards is not WP:SECONDARY, and to find a independent, reliable source that backs up their award publication is difficult since most are trashy camgirl sites that use porn jargon and company names to gain SEO. I could find this Sports publication: https://www.prosportsextra.com/xrco-announces-2020-adult-entertainment-winners/ . Would that qualify as secondary and independent? venzen (talk) 08:01, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Regarding The Arena Group https://thearenagroup.net/about-us/ I believe that they could qualify as Independent. And my citation #10 is an article in their publication "Men's Journal" as evidenced here https://thearenagroup.net/our-brands/ . I acknowledge your advice to have 3 independent sources and that YouTube interviews do not qualify to establish notability. I will continue searching. venzen (talk) 07:29, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

As for the Ascend Agency PR company being involved, well, it would be difficult to find any entertainer or public personality that does not have all media placements managed by their PR agency, not true? venzen (talk) 07:37, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

I always found this independent, secondary source OK! Magazine https://okmagazine.com/p/stirling-cooper-rises-worlds-best-sex-coach/ that echoes the same notability facts as the other sources, and written by staff writers without any PR agency. Does this source perhaps qualify as a citation? venzen (talk) 08:32, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Could another host kindly gloss over this request for assistance and give advice. Mike Turnbull has made valid points and helped me along the way to find the correct sources, however he now seems occupied elsewhere and this question will soon be archived. Any thoughts from another host? venzen (talk) 16:02, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

@Venzen Your best next step is to incorporate all the advice and submit the Draft for review. The experienced editors who do the reviews will give you additional comments if they decline the draft. The Teahouse is more of a place to look for general advice about the technicalities of editing, such as how to format citations and what notability means, rather than advice on content. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:54, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

@ 83.97.73.91 (talk) 17:28, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

much obliged venzen (talk) 01:51, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Help with edits I made through my ip, rather that my account.

Hi, I accidentally made a edit while not logged in through my account, so it was registered through my ip rather than my account. Is there any way to fix this? MrGamerBoy40 (talk) 16:33, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Please follow the instructions at Wikipedia:Requests for oversight. Shantavira|^{feed me} 16:43, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

You could doctor the signature, if the edit was on a talk page or somewhere like the reference desk. Simply, scrub the IP address, and replace it with your username as it would normally be written in signature form. Pablothepenguin (talk) 14:51, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

That would indicate that an IP address is tied to a particular account, which it sounds like this user is trying to avoid. 331dot (talk) 17:38, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

"New Editor" seeking guidance on a question regarding in-depth editing on Wikipedia

Hello everyone,

I hope you are all doing well on this fine day. I have been a long-time reader and admirer of Wikipedia, with a deep lifelong interest in mathematics and physics—especially the more advanced topics (e.g. differential geometry). Recently, I have encountered a significant question regarding contributing to Wikipedia in these specialized fields, and I am seeking guidance on the best approach.

Essentially, I want to begin to more significantly contribute to the articles of advanced mathematics and physics topics on Wikipedia. I have been making small edits for quite a long time, but I feel an urge to do more. I have come to a deeper, more grounded understanding of many fascinating and important concepts that were once unclear to me, and I wish to improve the already excellent resource that is Wikipedia by refining the (already quite excellent!) writings with these insights to help others on their own path of learning.

The reason this is not just as simple as "well just start doing it", but is a complex and involved question that I feel requires nuanced explanation, is because it is essentially (fundamentally, even) a social issue. This is especially complicated for me because I am autistic, and I fear accidentally stepping on somebody's toes, so to speak, in the act of "just trying to help" and make Wikipedia an even better place for the world's information, friendly and insightful to all.

However, I am unsure if the Teahouse is the appropriate forum to address such a question, as I don't want to overwhelm the page with a lengthy and intricate query—especially a space that is specifically designed to be friendly for newcomers and the like.

Considering the expertise and experience of the community here, I am reaching out to seek your advice on the best course of action. I would greatly appreciate your guidance on whether the Teahouse is the right place to share my question, or if there is some other place where it would be more appropriate to discuss "The right way, the kind and thoughtful way, to constructively add to (physics & mathematics on) Wikipedia."

Thank you all for your time and patience. I genuinely value your insights and expertise, and I look forward to receiving your advice on how to proceed with my inquiry so I can join the Wikipedia community in a healthy, wholesome, and helpful way.

Warm regards,

Castle. 76.125.192.226 (talk) 19:26, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello. I suggest that you ask your question here, doing your best to be clear and concise. Teahouse hosts may refer you elsewhere, depending on the technical complexity of your question. Cullen328 (talk) 19:30, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

We (including those spectrum and 'spectrum-adjacent') will be better able to advise if you identify an article you want to amend. A loose guideline is BRD, as in be Bold in edits, but if Reverted, open a Discussion on the article's Talk page. Be aware that highly technical articles may have few editors watching for changes or keeping an eye on the Talk page, so if you propose your changes on the Talk page first, your effort may be unanswered for a long time. HOWEVER, in your query you mention coming to an understanding of concepts. What you yourself conceive of is 'original research' and is not allowed. Any concept you modify or add must be verified by reliable source references at the same time. David notMD (talk) 21:57, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Lastly, it appears you have put content at Wikipedia's Sandbox, which gets frequently bot-cleared. Consider creating an account and using your account Sandbox to develop your ideas for either major article revision or a new article. David notMD (talk) 22:01, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Dear Cullen and David,

Thank you for your swift and thoughtful responses.

First I want to directly apologize for the length of my response that follows. It seems no matter how I try to cut things down, my post is just interminably wordy. So I will push through my worry for once and just... post it. As it is. And truly hope for the best.

I say to you, please let me know if I am actually posting Too Much Text.

My sole wish is to be peaceful and polite, understanding that I am new to this particular social climate, I don't know what's acceptable or unacceptable behavior.

Above all I want to be friendly and grateful, not imposing or self-important.

Anyways,

Here's what I have to say to what you have said:

---

• "I suggest that you ask your question here, doing your best to be clear and concise."

I would love to, however:

• I don't know if it's bad etiquette to post a somewhat long text here. My current personal draft for my original question is about 1,000 words (too long imho). I can definitely cut it down to the actually essential ideas (I dunno, 200–300 words or something? my post above is ~400 words), but I'm still scared of being "overwhelming". I don't want to just dump a bunch of text like I own the place. (Which... I know is somewhat ironic to say considering what I am posting right now. This post here you are reading is actually around ~1,300 words. So Oops I Guess That Just Went Out The Window. This is a big frustration for me. I'm sorry.)
• Being unfamiliar with the Teahouse, I don't know if or when "questions"/"threads" here get archived/cleared. I am sometimes slow to respond, so I'm scared of "missing the boat" and this discussion getting closed because I didn't reply in time.

In short, "I can do that! I can post a vastly shorter, concise, comprehensible version of my original phrasing of my original question. But is it really okay to do so? I feel shy or anxious."

• "it appears you have put content at Wikipedia's Sandbox, which gets frequently bot-cleared. Consider creating an account and using your account Sandbox[...]"

Thank you for the suggestion. I am well aware that the Sandbox gets auto-cleared, and I used it specifically for testing purposes. It was not my intention to save or "put" the content; I used it purely for rendering wikitext. I have only used it a couple of times for purely technical purposes.

I've been thinking seriously hard about creating an account, and I think that I should, but I'm anxious about doing so because of a number of silly personal psychological reasons. It feels like a "big investment" or a "big step". Even though it would obviously objectively be a good thing for my "status" on Wikipedia, so I'm a "person" and not just a random IP.

• "However, in your query you mention coming to an understanding of concepts. What you yourself conceive of is 'original research' and is not allowed. Any concept you modify or add must be verified by reliable source references at the same time."

I understand very well that "original research" is not allowed on Wikipedia. But at the same time, it seems that a lot of the text on advanced math articles on Wikipedia is in fact original and often didactic or definitional text, written by an expert writing on Wikipedia and contributing directly to Wikipedia, not strictly copy-pasted word-for-word from some source; and then the actual facts that are presented (e.g. each definition, theorem, or concept) are bolstered directly by inline citations to verifiable and trustworthy publications such as textbooks.

Fundamentally, it is not that I wish to add "new concepts" to Wikipedia. First and foremost, I want to clarify existing concepts by adding a few carefully-chosen words or a sentence here and there. Then secondarily, sometimes I feel an urge to "unbury the lede" so to speak, to increase the readability of a page.

• "We will be better able to advise if you identify an article you want to amend."

Math alert, but here is an example so that you may skim over and start to get at least some idea.

A recent example: I am currently learning about "weights" in the context of "representation theory".

{{
The Wikipedia page describes a "weight" as a "linear functional on ${\mathfrak {h}}$".
Specifically it says:
> "let $\lambda :{\mathfrak {h}}\to \mathbb {C}$ be a linear functional on ${\mathfrak {h}}$."
So when I read this, I thought to myself, "Okay, linear functional means, it is a linear map H -> C." Then I asked myself, "A linear functional? That's the same thing as a covector/dual vector, yeah?"
And the article at some point way later, in a totally different section, says, "The space of linear functionals [is] H*, the dual space to H."
And I thought to myself, "...So *yeah,* it seems highly likely a weight is a covector, belonging to the dual space H*."
Then, through reading numerous sources including Wikipedia, lecture notes, Stack Exchange questions, and others,
I came to the understanding that yes, actually it is a covector. It is notably *not* a scalar.
Why does this matter? Because the first paragraph of the article says: "In this context, a weight of a representation is a generalization of the notion of an eigenvalue."
An eigenvalue is a scalar, notably not a covector.
So there is a big potential for confusion here, for someone who is totally new to what a "weight" even is.
Even when I read over the article about four times, it was not clear to me that a "weight" even was a covector/one-form, eating a member of H and returning a scalar from C!

This is what I mean by "I came to an understanding, which was not immediately obvious merely due to the way the article was written, and I want to make it clearer for other readers in the future."
}}

So what do I want to do to that article? All I want to do is add a parenthetical clarifying statement:

"Let λ : H -> C be a linear functional on H. That is to say, a weight is a covector belonging to the dual space H*."

To me, it seems that simple! In linear algebra, it is an uncontroversial statement that "linear functional" = "covector" = "one-form" are equivalent terms. If it really needs explicit support, there are surely thousands of standard texts I could cite if it really needs a little citation box thingy to the upper right of it. (Wikipedia:Scientific citation guidelines ? I just don't know how often to make such citations.)

(After reading slightly more about the citation policies, it seems that it may be okay for inline citations to actually be Very Often. If it is OK and expected that statements in mathematics be heavily supported by citations... I don't have a problem with learning to do that! If Wikipedia wants/needs/requires it, I say: I'm surely fine with making lots of citations.)

But I'm scared that somebody else might say "This is unnecessary. Stop adding edits like this." And get mad at me because they immediately understood without issue that "a linear functional = covector = a weight is a covector", and they feel it's just clogging the article to make that intuition-building fact unambiguously clear.

All I want to do is help ease people, learners, on their path to understanding the same things it took me extra work to learn. Inside me, profoundly I feel this is a kind thing to do. But I am so anxious about it being seen as annoying or unhelpful or "unprofessional".

---

Thanks again for your consideration, your time, and your patience. As you can probably tell, these worries have been brewing about inside me for a Long Time. I feel deeply drawn to, and pushed to, helping people, adding insight, clarifying little things, doing whatever I can to improve an already truly astonishing resource (Wikipedia) for the world's information.

All I want to do is find a way I can do it, to pitch in, help out, without... bothering everyone. And doing it all wrong and violating all the rules in the process and making people angry. Because I do care about the rules and doing it right and being nice to people, because people matter.

I care A Lot. 76.125.192.226 (talk) 20:53, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi, IP editor! The following essays may be of interest to you: WP:BLUE and WP:NOTBLUE.

Generally, if you're not sure whether an edit will be useful, you can propose it on the talk page first and invite discussion. You can also notify related WikiProjects to gather more interest, eg. WP:WPMATHS. If you don't find any willing participants after a while, feel free to be WP:BOLD and add your contributions. If anyone then has a problem with them, they should see you're acting in good faith and they might revert and discuss with you as per WP:BRD. Don't fear too many harsh words - if anyone responds unprofessionally to your edits, they're the one who is in the wrong. People here tend to be generally polite, understanding and helpful. HerrWaus (talk) 09:40, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Unable to format my page for US rocket pioneer

Hello,

Because it doesn't exist I started a wiki page for American rocket pioneer Edward S Forman who was one of the founders of Aerojet Corporation. His name appears on many other wiki pages...Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory, Frank Malina, Jack Parsons, but there's no landing page for him). He has been written about in books as well as press. Unfortunately I completely stalled out because the formatting was way too difficult for me. My sandbox page start has now been sitting unfinished for 5 years. I'm a professional writer so the writing, references and citations are no problem. It's the page building. Do you have freelancers who will actually build the page for me?

Thank you LynnMaginnis (talk) 00:24, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

LynnMaginnis, all the references currently cited in User:LynnMaginnis/sandbox/Edward Forman are to a single book that's about somebody other than Forman. So, currently, the referencing is a problem. (Please see WP:GNG.) The freelancers would have to search for information about Forman. As for the formatting, you've done it pretty well; what's the particular problem that you face? -- Hoary (talk) 00:32, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi again, thanks for getting back to me. The article is much longer and uses multiple references. I had to quit writing in the sandbox so started writing the rest of the draft in Pages/Words. Getting what little is there on the page formatted was so frustrating and time consuming I had to quit. I can't do the sidebars, indexes, expanded photo boxes with birth, death, organizations, etc. I don't need freelance writers. I have plenty of sources. I need freelance page builders. LynnMaginnis (talk) 00:46, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

LynnMaginnis, I've already made a few edits to formatting. A sidebar or expanded photo box (or "gallery") is completely unnecessary. The list of contents has been generated automatically, and if you add or subtract headers then the list of contents will be updated automatically. Formatting tables prettily is tiresome but you probably won't need any table; formatting anything else is pretty easy: just try; and if you're stuck, ask here. (Free of charge!) -- Hoary (talk) 00:55, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

PS LynnMaginnis, if by "freelancer" you mean somebody who'd do this for payment, please forget the idea. It's unlikely to bring a happy result, for any of a number of reasons. -- Hoary (talk) 00:36, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

So who can help me? Wouldn't Wikipedia want to fill in the missing history of a person who is mentioned on your other pages? LynnMaginnis (talk) 00:51, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Really, LynnMaginnis, do your best to DIY. Easier for you, after a little initial irritation. If/when you get stuck, ask. If you're using Pages or Word, one problem you'll probably face is that plain, single quotation marks (' ') will be autotransformed into "typographic" single quotation marks (‘ ’). Their italicizing and emboldening functions will thereby be lost. Solution: Copy out of Word/Pages and paste into a text editor; use the text editor (I use Geany but any should be OK) to convert "typographic" quotation marks to plain ones; continue editing in the text editor. -- Hoary (talk) 01:05, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

LynnMaginnis, we can help you here at the Teahouse as often as you want, but you are going to have to do most of the work yourself. Your content should be in the draft where experienced editors can see it, not in some "Pages/Words" document off-Wikipedia. Do not worry about sidebars, indexes, expanded photo boxes with birth, death, organizations, etc. because all of that is secondary. What matters far more that that stuff is well written, neutral, well referenced encyclopedic prose. On another note, you uploaded File:Ed Forman1.jpg, a photo taken by a staff photographer at Noel Studio in Pasadena in 1931 or 1932. You claimed that photo as your own work. With all due respect, I consider it unlikely that you were a professional portrait photographer in 1931 or 1932 and are now editing Wikipedia in 2023. The math seems implausible. Please clarify the provenance of this photo. Cullen328 (talk) 01:24, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Teahouse Hosts are generalists, here to advise on Wikipedia practices, but not be co-authors. Consider the Malina and Parsons articles as models. David notMD (talk) 01:40, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

If we don't know when the copyright holder of the photograph died, and if we have no compelling reason to think that the photograph predates 1932, then according to Prof Hirtle we have to assume that it remains copyright until 2052. (Thanks, Disney Corp!) So I'd be looking for a published photograph to replace it. -- Hoary (talk) 02:27, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

So did you delete the photo and box that I had? This morning I see it's gone now. I wanted to fix it instead of start over. LynnMaginnis (talk) 16:00, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

@LynnMaginnis, it was removed by Theroadislong as a potential copyright violation. It still exists over on Commons (link) but it will be deleted in six days unless you can provide proof that it is not a copyright violation. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 16:06, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Of course I am not claiming provenance on the photo...the error is there because I have trouble with the tools. Even in Visual Editor, which is all I could use..,.forget html source code. I am using the Jack Parsons pages as a model. I am a 77 year old grandmother trying to fill in a gap of history. I'm pretty surprised at how unfriendly and critical some people have been on this forum. LynnMaginnis (talk) 17:50, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for this tip LynnMaginnis (talk) 15:57, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip Hoary on the text editor. LynnMaginnis (talk) 16:03, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

@Hoary ... I think it was you that cleaned up my citations (the a,b,c format with one source footnote instead of several), which was one of my issues. How did you do that? I've seen it on other pages but didn't know how it was done. LynnMaginnis (talk) 16:21, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

LynnMaginnis, yes it was me, and this (which incidentally is called a "diff" in Wikipedia-editing-speak) was the edit. It shows you precisely what I did, but I realize that it may not be so easy to understand and digest (one reason being that I moved one quasi-paragraph from the foot of the draft to its head, thereby getting other paragraphs out of sync). ¶ I noticed that you had several references to the same book, each reference being to a specific page, or page span, of that book. (What you'd done had a system to it, and it's an entirely legitimate way of referencing: please keep reading.) I guessed that this was a draft that would eventually cite a larger number of sources, and that (my personal preferences aside) the existing referencing system would make it unnecessarily hard to edit, without particularly benefiting its readers. And so I retained one of your references, renaming it from the opaque ":0" to the slightly less forgettable "angel", and removing the page number, for which I instead used Template:Rp. Thereafter, you, or I, or anyone, could refer to the book via combinations such as <ref name="angel" />{{Rp|page=125}} and <ref name="angel" />{{Rp|pages=32–34}}, etc.; the labeling of each instance as "a", "b", "c", etc would be automated by Wikipedia's software. ¶ As mentioned above, I happen not to like the system you had used (entirely separate references for each cited page, or page-span, of a book), but it is a system, and Wikipedia makes it very clear that "Editors should not attempt to change an article's established citation style merely on the grounds of personal preference, or to make it match other articles, without first seeking consensus for the change." So, very unusually, I broke a rule here. I did so because in this particular situation "seeking consensus" seemed likely to do little more than further confuse and annoy. -- Hoary (talk) 23:11, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

By the way, @LynnMaginnis I think Hoary has picked the best citation style for new editors for you.* I used it for my first article. It makes it very easy to use the same source multiple times - if you're in Visual Editor, just click on the footnote, press ctrl+c, then paste it wherever you want to use that source again. imo, it's easiest to switch over to Code Editor afterward to go put the page numbers in.

`*Most established editors (at least in the hist/lit/bio areas I tend to work in) prefer Template:sfn, and I personally find that really easy for writing in with the source code editor. But sfn is almost completely useless in Visual Editor, so it's probably not something you want to use (yet). -- asilvering (talk) 03:30, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

@LynnMaginnis Have you tried using Visual Editor? That will look and behave more like a word processing program than source code. -- asilvering (talk) 05:14, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

asilvering, I only used the Visual Editor, and when I struggled with that I figured there was no hope for doing myself. LynnMaginnis (talk) 17:53, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Alas, sorry to hear it. But it really does look fine so far. Don't worry too much about making it look perfect. Most articles that go through draft reviews at AfC have some kind of formatting error or other. There are editors who seem to actually enjoy fixing those minor things, adding infoboxes, and so on, and it's perfectly acceptable to leave some of that for someone else if you're getting frustrated. If your draft has citations that are so broken a reviewer doesn't know what they are, that's a problem. Otherwise, don't sweat it. -- asilvering (talk) 08:45, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the insights asilvering. LynnMaginnis (talk) 15:55, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello LynnMaginnis. Back in 2010 I’d had a few magazine articles published, but was intimidated by the Wikipedia article process. Here’s what helped me. I created my encyclopedia article offline, adding the formatting as I wrote, using Help:Cheatsheet. For needed formatting I didn’t know I’d find a published article that contained what I wanted to learn, and clicked on "Edit" to see the formatting.

When my draft was finished I went to Wikipedia:Article wizard/version1/Ready for submission and, for my first article, I used the draft option. I copied and pasted my article title into “Enter your draft name here”, then copied my article manuscript, clicked on "Create new article draft" and pasted the article in the space provided below the Instructions section. After that I clicked on "Show preview" to see what needed corrected. The next step was clicking on "Publish page" which saved everything to the public drafting area. I then had the option to come back later to work on the draft some more, or I could click on "Edit" then add subst:submit (with double brackets around it) at the beginning of my draft, which indicted that I wanted my draft to be reviewed. I am thankful that I received a Notice informing me that my article had been accepted. I hope that you find this helpful. Karenthewriter (talk) 04:01, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks sooooo much Karenthewriter. This is the kind of nuts and bolts help I need. Glad your article was accepted! LynnMaginnis (talk) 17:40, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Lynn, don't worry about formatting, images, or anything else. Just do two things: read reliable sources and 1) summarize what they say in your own words (don't copy!), and then 2) cite those sources, as you have been. One more thing: to get your draft accepted, make sure you find some sources that have significant coverage of Forman—i.e, not just a passing mention, but multiple paragraphs; a whole book chapter about him would probably nail it, or a couple of independent newspaper articles that aren't an interview of him, but *about* him. (Note: different newspapers all printing the same news agency story, count as one independent source.) If you can get three solid sources like that, it's very likely your draft will be accepted. Once you have that, you can try submitting again, or if you wish, ask for review here again. Note that I've added a header and a section to Draft talk:Edward Forman which may help. Mathglot (talk) 20:34, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

WikipediAn Heroes?

Hello,

My question is if any Wikipedia editors have become an hero, and if so, would anyone be interested in having an memorial page dedicated to them? I have an associates degree in web design and I am very familiar with an range of webpage syntax, so creating an memorial page in Wikipedia space would be as easy as one two three for this guy. Thanks. Rodthrust (talk) 04:10, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

@Rodthrust Wikipedia is not a place for memorials Lightoil (talk) 05:08, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

While @Lightoil is correct - Wikipedia articles are not memorials, Wikipedia:Deceased Wikipedians does exist which may be the sort of thing @Rodthrust is looking for. Tomorrow and tomorrow (talk) 06:54, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

@Rodthrust An hero? As in, successfully committing suicide? And you propose we glorify that? Either you have a serious moral disability or this is obscene trolling bait which you should be banned for. Please do reconsider! Jaiquiero (talk) 07:47, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Ancestry.com as only source of birth date

At this writing, I am preparing a draft page on Marlene Fanta Shyer, one of whose books (1983's Stepdog) I did a Wikipedia article for on Sunday morning (thanks to the Judith Schermer connection--for which you can thank my rescue mission on Mouse in House). After following Google search's lead--Shyer was born in 1932--I have nothing else for this date of birth except for this 1940 U.S.-census snippet provided by Ancestry.com, which is about as reliable as it gets for the time being. Not even Gale's Contemporary Authors listing mentions it. As such, putting my efforts on hold until I receive advice on how to handle this case, or get lucky with a secondary source somewhere. (Perhaps Newspapers.com--owned by the same company--might lend us a hand here before long?) --Slgrandson (How's my egg-throwing coleslaw?) 06:11, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

@Slgrandson any chance it's on the copyright page of one of her books? -- asilvering (talk) 06:13, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Skimmed across the Open Library previews--highly doubtful. I'll keep looking. --Slgrandson (How's my egg-throwing coleslaw?) 06:31, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

@Asilvering: Sadly, I can officially confirm (a bit belatedly) that nothing else is around for the birth-date claim. Awaiting further feedback from another one or two users; draft still on hold until a response is received. --Slgrandson (How's my egg-throwing coleslaw?) 20:19, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Bummer. It's not such a big deal to leave out, at least. -- asilvering (talk) 21:33, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Location of publication, Place of publication

Visual edit has fields headed "Location of publication" and "Place of publication". The former is followed by "Geographical place of publication; usually not wikilinked; omit when the publication name includes place", the latter by "Publication place shows after title; if 'place' or 'location' are also given, they are displayed before the title prefixed with 'written at'". What is the difference? How should each be used?

I've searched the Teahouse and Help desk archives but not found anything mentioning both. Mcljlm (talk) 18:40, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Mcljim. These are explained at Template:Cite book/doc#Description. It says If only one of publication-place, place, or location is defined, it will be treated as the publication place and will show after the title; if publication-place and place or location are defined, then place or location is shown before the title prefixed with "written at" and publication-place is shown after the title. So place or location (they are alternative names for the same parameter), if used as well as publication-place, show where the item (eg a news story or article) was written.

These are the names used with the template in the source editor. I'm not quite sure how they map on to the fields in the Visual Editor, because I've never used it. ColinFine (talk) 20:04, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

In some cases at least I can tick/check the boxes in the Visual edit list for both which results in fields for both appearing. Mcljlm (talk) 23:17, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

VE uses the descriptions given in the #TemplateData section of most templates. Because of the length of Template:Cite book/doc, the template data section points to a subpage, Template:Cite_book/TemplateData, where the descriptions for |location= and |publication-place= in VE can be found. Mathglot (talk) 19:44, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

How to change a picture of Town in Town page

Picture on our town's page is about as bad as it gets. I previously changed to one of our main park after discussion with town. Somehow picture back to another terrible one. What is the process to change it back to park picture. Buttheadsmith (talk) 21:19, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

@Buttheadsmith: Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia! I don't see any activity in your contributions relating to any towns, however, if you would like to upload a photo of your town to Commons (that's where all the pictures are), it needs to be freely licensed.

You could take your own photo and release it under a free license, or find a freely licensed photo, or ask the author of a copyrighted photo to release the photo under a free license. QuickQuokka ^{[⁠talk • contribs]} 21:35, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

We have the picture uploaded in commons by fogleew. I don't know how to get it from there to the town story. Buttheadsmith (talk) 15:49, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

@Buttheadsmith: That's wonderful there's now an image that can illustrate your town's page better! To see how you can add it to the page, see Help:Images. QuickQuokka ^{[⁠talk • contribs]} 15:54, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Sanjana Ganesan

About 95 per cent of the article is uncited, containing hyperbole fan cruft. Shouldn't it be nominated for deletion? জয় হিন্দ জয় বাংলা (talk) 21:32, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

@জয় হিন্দ জয় বাংলা:  Listed for deletion (again) QuickQuokka ^{[⁠talk • contribs]} 21:42, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

@জয় হিন্দ জয় বাংলা:  Deleted QuickQuokka ^{[⁠talk • contribs]} 16:48, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks again 🙂 জয় হিন্দ জয় বাংলা (talk) 21:15, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello

Hello, First of all, I wish you a healthy and beautiful day.

I've been planning to send you a message for a while. We need to make some contributions on the OGUsers item.

OGUsers was created in 2017 by 2 partners. However, as one of the Partners was legally prosecuted, the Local Government confiscated the domain as it is Partner's property.

After this situation, they continued this process with the OGU.gg domain for a while. However, due to too many cyber attacks, they have updated their Name to "Flipd.gg" with its Current Name.

I urge you to take a look at the Flipd.gg website. You can see thousands of forum topics and active user records since 2017.

Fake imitation sites like ogusers.gg are constantly vandalizing the article to appear on the first page of Google.

I request you to review the information I have provided, update the Information and renew the item as a Protected item.

I also have multiple information about the Forum as I have been a registered member of the Forum since 2018. If you'd like to review additional information and documents, I can provide links URL links that can tally what we're saying.

I will be waiting for your positive or negative feedback.

Kind regards, KarsliPasha (talk) 22:51, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello @KarsliPasha and welcome to the Teahouse.

If you say that OGU.gg changed their name to Flipd.gg, could you provide the source? 🛧Layah50♪🛪 ( 話す? 一緒に飛ぼう！) 23:33, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Thanks for your kindness.

There is an official description of the OGUsers owner here;

https://flipd.gg/Thread-Update--1056623

Also, if you visit the site, you will see that it is not a fake site. This is their official website.

If you examine the official Reddit address, where the Founders of the Community made a statement, they announced that Flipd.gg is an Official site to protect people from copycat sites.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ogusersforsale/

The reason for the rebranding of the OGU.gg founder is that he now wants to be a legal and secure Platform.

The owner of Swapd, a well-known forum, started a Discussion thread about it when the brand name changed, and there people said that the Ogusers site was updated to Flipd.

Link to discussion on Swapd site;

https://swapd.co/t/ogu-gg-old-ogusers-com-shut-down/852010

and

https://swapd.co/t/ogu-gg-old-ogusers-com-shut-down/852010/31

Also, if you look at the screenshot of any Ogusers.com site on Google Images, you can see that all the members and topics you see on flipd.gg are present in perfect shape.

If you want more information, let us know what kind of resources we need to provide you.

Please update the article as a protected article even if you don't want to make any edits. Because we have received a lot of reports from Google that websites imitating the Brand name are defrauding users of the Platform.

Time is the most important resource in life. Thank you very much for your valuable time. If you examine the Flipd.gg site for only 2 minutes, you can clearly understand that this site is the official site.

I'll be waiting for your feedback.

Kind regards,

KarsliPasha (talk) 23:49, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

@KarsliPasha Although the topic is out of my field of experience, I don't feel any of those sources are anything other than user-generated content and discussions on other platforms. Nothing there seems sufficiently reliable to merit making changes. How would we know if the admin notice was itself placed on a fake website? An article in Mashable or something like that might do it. But to be honest: I think this discussion is best held on the article's own Talk page where editors who know the subject may be able to offer more specific advice. But please continue to declare your Conflict of Interest per the instructions at WP:COI. You are right to be attempting to make an WP:EDITREQUEST rather than editing the article yourself. Nick Moyes (talk) 08:38, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello,

Thanks for your response and kindness. Assuming I'm telling the truth, what do I have to do to prove it? KarsliPasha (talk) 22:24, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

@KarsliPasha Simply find some Reliable published sources that prove it. It's as simple as that. No disrespect is intended, but we simply cannot take the word of any user who offers unreliable, user-generated sources as evidence. I may be wrong, but my interpretation of those sources you linked to was that they were not authoritative. I still suggest you raise the issue on the article's talk page. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 22:28, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Are there any Wikipedia pages that are so notable that they have meta Wikipedia pages about themselves?

For example, if the Wikipedia page Turkey itself was notable, then there could be a wikipedia pages called Turkey (Wikipedia article). does any such article exist? Michael7604 (talk) 04:24, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello @Michael7604 and welcome to the Teahouse.

I'm guessing you're talking about the disambiguation page? Here it is > Turkey (disambiguation) 🛧Layah50♪🛪 ( 話す? 一緒に飛ぼう！) 04:49, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

No, I mean like if a Wikipedia article itself was so notable in the media that that page itself had a Wikipedia article about it. Like an article about an article Michael7604 (talk) 04:52, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

I don't think those kinds of articles exist. It's totally unnecessary to have an article about a Wikipedia article. 🛧Layah50♪🛪 ( 話す? 一緒に飛ぼう！) 04:59, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Yes: Wikipedia Seigenthaler biography incident is about the article John Seigenthaler; and there may be one or two other examples. -- Hoary (talk) 05:02, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Not to mention Wikipedia's own article on itself (since the very earliest months of the project), as well as separate ones for its foreign-language variants. --Slgrandson (How's my egg-throwing coleslaw?) 20:06, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Yes, there are quite a few that come to mind in fact. I was just looking at one of them today. You can find them in various places on meta and on Wikipedia. Lilbrownhole (talk) 05:04, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

It's Commons, not Wikipedia, but File:Macaca nigra self-portrait large.jpg has Monkey selfie copyright dispute. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 05:08, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Yes: Jar'Edo Wens hoax, as another example. But if anyone is looking at this discussion, thinking "If I create a great hoax, even after it's found out and deleted my feat will live on in Wikipedia history", and salivating, better think again. Living on in history will be very much less likely than a humdrum indefinite block, all for a squalid little incident known to no more than a dozen people. ¶ How about the opposite: a Wikipedia article famed for the right reasons? Unlikely, as Wikipedia is conservative: never perceptive or innovative, always merely regurgitating. -- Hoary (talk) 05:14, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

You may find something interesting in categories like Category:Wikipedia content, Category:Criticism of Wikipedia and Category:Wikipedia controversies. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:51, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Since it's "pages", we can also include wikipedia topics that have articles, such as ARBCOM's. Nosebagbear (talk) 14:30, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

How do I make the metadata for my spoken article look right?

I made an audio recording for Preening and uploaded it okay, but when I click on the file individually it doesn't have the nice blue text indicating the corresponding article version, dialect, and so on that audio files for pages like Archaea or Evolution has. How do I make mine look like that? Indochina2 (talk) 05:16, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Ah, I ended up finding a template at Wikipedia:WikiProject Spoken Wikipedia. Sorry for the trouble. Indochina2 (talk) 06:17, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

How do I fix this signing issue I am having?

Sometimes when I am finishing making a reply or section, it makes another signpost without me doing anything. Is the wiki servers having issues, and if not, is there a way to fix this bug? Much appreciated Wolfquack (talk) 05:29, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi Wolfquack. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "signpost". How are you posting? Do you click on "Edit" in the discussion thread heading and then add your post? Do you click on "Reply" at the end of another user's post and then add your post? I believe if you do the latter, the software will automatically add your signature to post unless you manually do so yourself. I think this is a relatively new feature that was added to take care of those cases where people forget to sign their posts. If I'm completely off the mark with my answer, then perhaps you can provide an example of the problems you're experiencing or at least describe exactly what you're doing step-by-step to see if another Teahouse host can duplicate the problem. -- Marchjuly (talk) 05:58, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

@Marchjuly Sorry for responding pretty late I was very busy. Yes I am referring to the latter where you simply click “reply”. It was having issues with me doing it manually. Thanks for the response as always. Wolfquack (talk) 04:45, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

@Wolfquack I assume you mean this edit? It looks like you created a new topic on another user's talk page. Nowadays, doing it that way automatically adds your signature for you (rather than requiring the more usual four tildes (like this: ~~~~) to be typed in manually. It's very easy to forget sometimes, so I'm wondering if you may simply typed the extra set of tildes as well, just as I'm about to do when signing this reply to you, and the system failed to spot the duplication and it slipped through. Hope this helps. Nick Moyes (talk) 08:10, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Yes I’m reffering to that edit and a couple more that have been happening to me. Thanks for helping! Wolfquack (talk) 14:02, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

@Wolfquack, if it keeps happening, the best thing to do is make a report at WP:VPT. That's where the tech specialist types hang out. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 14:07, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Ok I’ll try that if it keeps happening. Wolfquack (talk) 14:09, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Author articles

Hi, does anyone have any guidance on writing articles on authors that clearly meet WP:NAUTHOR (In this instance multiple books/works with many reviews), but for whom there is a dearth of secondary sources on the author themselves? :3 F4U (they/it) 06:41, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Freedom4U. The guideline (which is not policy) assumes that an author with multiple books/works with many reviews will also have the type of significant coverage in independent, reliable sources that enable an informative, policy compliant Wikipedia biography to be written. If that is not the case, focus instead on writing articles about his most notable books. Guidelines are rules of thumb and are not 100% effective, and those that repeatedly prove to be ineffective get withdrawn. Former assumptions of notability of association footballers and porn stars have been deprecated in recent years, resulting in the deletion of many low quality articles. Quality concerns come first in 2023. Cullen328 (talk) 08:11, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

@Freedom4U There was an extensive discussion on this now archived at WP:Teahouse/Questions/Archive_1194#Concerns of notability re: children's author, 1980s-present + possible workaround which you may find interesting. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:11, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Hmm that was an interesting read, though not necessarily helpful. She does also meet the notability criteria of WP:NPROF if that is helpful. I was asking this question more for advice on finding sources. :3 F4U (they/it) 12:31, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

For any biography, I tend to put the individual's name into the search box on The Wikipedia Library but for authors the hits tend to be difficult to disentangle from all the book reviews. You can of course use WP:ABOUTSELF sources from their social media for some information. I assume you don't have a specific author in mind but are asking in general? Sometimes their Virtual International Authority File or WorldCat entries can give clues as to where to look for sources. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:26, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia Library is a good idea, I'll try that out :) I've been using Google Scholar or searching directly on JSTOR/Sage, but I think I'll find a better variety of sources there. :3 F4U (they/it) 16:37, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

@Freedom4U I forgot to say that there is a neat trick which works if you have an article draft you are developing. That is to temporarily place the template {{find sources}} within the draft text (anywhere). That provides many useful search links including TWL and automatically populates them with the draft's title. Hence if used on this page you get Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL with the search term "Teahouse"! Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:51, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

I've been using the Talk header template, but that's very helpful too. Thanks! :3 F4U (they/it) 15:13, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Visual Editing vs Source Editing

Hi. I am still new to Wikipedia. One of the things which I wanted to ask is that whenever I am editing a page, I see the option of "Source Editing vs Visual Editing". And honestly speaking, I find the Visual Editing extremely easy as compared to Source Editing. Just wanted to ask which one is better? Visual Editing or Source Editing? Thanks Charsaddian (talk) 09:38, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

@Charsaddian, welcome to the Teahouse! Out of old habit, I use the source editor myself, but I think VE is easier for beginners for most things. I have been told that there are some things the VE is worse at, but I don't really know what they are. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:02, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Not just worse, there are some things which cannot be edited with VE at all (this list is not exhaustive)

• Anything which isn't using the wikitext content model
• raw editing of most HTML attributes, including style="" and id=""
• complex template structures (including Help:Conditional expressions and most other parser functions)
• raw editing of behavior switches (some can be modified via the page options dialog. Others not)

Plus several things that are doable but painfull

• <syntaxhighlight>
• variables (no autocompletion)

Additionally, VE has no support for resolving edit conflicts, and if you take too long (several hours) to save your edit, it might get lost irrecoverably. Victor Schmidt (talk) 12:32, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

@Victor Schmidt Thanks for the feedback. Right now I am only using SE when it comes to making edits in Tables/Templates. Charsaddian (talk) 20:25, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for welcoming me. Yes agreed that VE is easy for the beginners. I also find VE easy currently but maybe once I gain more experience, I will become more comfortable with SE as well. Charsaddian (talk) 20:23, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

@Charsaddian "Old hands" here tend to use the source editor since the VE only became available much later. It also gives you slightly more direct access to tricks from the cheatsheet. However, those who are familiar with modern word-processors will find the learning curve with VE much smaller than with SE. The main area where I find VE is inferior is in the way it handles named references. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:17, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

indeed, AFAIK reusing refs isn't great, and if a reference doesn't have a name, it will get something like autoNumber Victor Schmidt (talk) 12:32, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

I generally enjoy visual editor more, but there are still certain features that it lacks. Sfn references (like Mike mentioned) are difficult, as are tables and lists sometimes. If I tried to use visual editor 100% of the time, there would be some errors I would never be able to fix. In addition, it's quite slow on larger articles in comparison to source editor. :3 F4U (they/it) 12:28, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

I agree. Source Editor can open and edit just one section or sub-section of a page, whereas WP:VE opens the whole page at once. I tend to switch between them quite a bit. Nick Moyes (talk) 12:55, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

@Nick Moyes Thanks for talking part in the discussion. Do you think having Technical Background is important for getting understanding of Source Editing? Charsaddian (talk) 20:32, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

@Charsaddian Absolutely not. I don't know if you're old enough to remember a very famous piece of early word processing software called 'Wordstar' (precursor of WordPerfect and then MS Word). Every typist and office worker (like me) just had to learn a few simple characters to place before and after any word or sentence if they wanted to italicise it, embolden it or underline it. They all managed it and none had technical backgrounds. To be honest, it's very much like that.

There is one really useful (and often overlooked) editing icon in Source Editor that you should not ignore - it's a slanted grey pencil icon for 'syntax highlighting'. You can toggle highlighting on and off, which adds colour to all the tiny commands which make up reference templates, hyperlinks, wikilinks and usernames. It leaves actual text black, allowing you to ignore the coloured source code elements if you want to, rather than have everything on the page all one colour. It's really useful, and great for getting to the heart of any problem that's making something not display correctly. Nick Moyes (talk) 21:09, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

@Freedom4U I agree what you mentioned about the Tables and Lists. I found Source Editing very useful when editing Tables/Templates Charsaddian (talk) 20:28, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

@Charsaddian: Welcome to the Teahouse. I find it depends on what you're planning to do. If it's surface level like adding/editing citations or text, the visual editor is a lot better to use. If you're going to be editing a lot of tables or templates, you might want to get acquainted with the source editor. It's good to have some experience in using the source editor, as not all namespaces (such as article/user talk pages) allow the use of the visual editor. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 15:21, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

@Tenryuu Thanks for the detailed feedback. I feel due to lack of Technical Background, I will be having difficulties in using Source Editing frequently. Am I right? Charsaddian (talk) 20:34, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

I don't think so. Michael D. Turnbull up above linked to the cheatsheet, so it's got basic formatting options for you that the visual editor covers. It's just that the visual editor has to go through more hoops than the source if you're trying to do something like putting parameters into a preexisting template. I personally like to be able to tell what's what in source, so I usually enable syntax highlighting so that it's easy to tell at a glance what's been italicised, what's a reference, and what templates are in use. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 20:40, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your response. Really helpful Charsaddian (talk) 20:50, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello Charsaddian. It's 90% personal preference. I think most new editors gravitate to the visual editor because it's more intuitive. And most experienced editors gravitate towards the source editor because there are many niche features only fully implemented in source mode. If the VE works for you, that's great. If you discover more things that you can do in the source editor and decide to use it, that's also great.

As far technical skill? No, not really. Try looking at a page that you've edited before in the source editor with highlighting on. Also, if you run into confusion in source mode, feel free to post back here and ask questions. Regards, Rjjiii (talk) 06:32, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Also, in the VisualEditor, you can't add template parameters if they're not in the TemplateData (most of the time, anyways). Templates are, on the whole, easier to manage in source mode. Edward-Woodrow :) _[talk] 12:57, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

I use both, It is easier to add images and other media using the VE, but easier for templates in the SE. PaulGamerBoy360 (talk) 02:07, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

it's rewind time

is there an option to reset the time you're watching an article whenever you make an edit on it? because setting the watch time on some drafts back to 6 months can get extremely, inconceivably mildly annoying cogsan • (give me attention) • (see my deeds) 12:23, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

@cog-san: there is a watch permanently option. lettherebedarklight晚安 12:40, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Finding articles needing edits

When I first made my account I remember there was some way to find random articles that were flagged as needing edits, but I forgot how to do that. Can anyone help me out? Pernicious.Editor (talk) 13:48, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

@Pernicious.Editor The WP:TASK page has many possible things to do, including some of the type you mention in its first box. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:43, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Are you talking about Special:HomePage? You might also want to try SuggestBot. OutsideNormality (mobile) (talk) 16:41, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

2011 Cincinnati Reds season fix

Hello. Go to above article, scroll down first to batters table, go to last entry in table, Daryl Thompson, put his data numbers in line and centered with others above. Scroll down to Relief pitchers table, go to last entry in table, Travis Wood, put his data in line as well. Cant figure out what went wrong here. Thanks for your help today.Theairportman33531 (talk) 14:03, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

@Theairportman33531 Looking at 2012 Cincinnati Reds season for comparison, the equivalent table is properly sortable and looks OK. I'm not an expert on tables but you may be able to work out how to fix 2011 Cincinnati Reds season using that as a guide. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:52, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Needs more experts intervention

Greetings,

There is an ongoing discussion on the talk page of the article "Indian National Developmental Inclusive Alliance" regarding its abbreviation, which is officially designated as INDIA according to the majority of reliable sources and an official announcement. While some sources have used I.N.D.I.A as the abbreviation independently, it is important to note that the alliance's logo does not include any dotted or dashed abbreviation.

In accordance with the Wikipedia guideline on abbreviations (WP: Abbreviation), the prevailing abbreviation supported by the majority of reliable sources and official announcements is INDIA. However, some users have expressed disagreement, arguing that it matches the country's name and, therefore, should not be used. Nevertheless, it is worth mentioning that abbreviations pose no issue, especially when they are used within the infobox and lead section of the article.

To achieve a resolution, we invite experts in the subject matter to kindly review the ongoing discussion, utilizing their expertise to assess the matter and establish a consensus on the appropriate abbreviation to be used for the "Indian National Developmental Inclusive Alliance."

Thank you for your attention to this matter, and we look forward to a productive resolution based on reliable sources and the collective expertise of our contributors. ❯❯❯ Chunky aka Al Kashmiri (✍️) 14:31, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi @TheChunky, welcome to the Teahouse. While WP:CANVASS recommends posting notices in relevant locations to draw more people to a discussion, be very careful about your wording - especially the bit about neutrality. Also, the Teahouse isn't a good choice for such notifications; related WikiProjects would be better, or a noticeboard if one exists. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 14:34, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for the warm welcome to the Teahouse, and I appreciate your valuable advice regarding posting notices and maintaining neutrality.

My intention in posting here was to seek assistance in resolving an ongoing edit warring issue involving multiple users. I recognize the significance of neutrality in discussions, and I assure you that my invitation to experts was with the sole purpose of facilitating a fair and informed consensus. My ultimate goal is to put an end to the edit warring and prevent any further vandalism of the article.

I understand now that the Teahouse might not be the most suitable platform for such notifications. I will take your suggestion into account and consider reaching out to related WikiProjects or relevant noticeboards in the future.

Once again, thank you for your understanding and guidance. I look forward to working together with the community to foster a constructive and collaborative editing environment.

Best regards, ❯❯❯ Chunky aka Al Kashmiri (✍️) 14:44, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

why my first change removed

I want to provide informative content related packaging to Wikipedia users and I want to contribute but my changes are removed when I made my first change my website is [redacted by an admin]. Dave pell (talk) 15:29, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

@Dave pell Welcome to the Teahouse. Your edit was reverted because it was purely promotional, serving only to advertise your business and not in any way relevant to this encyclopaedia. If you can source detailed independent references such as text books, journals and periodicals that give additional information, you may cite these. Please do not add that url again, as spammersinvariably get permanently blocked from editing (please read WP:PROMOTION) to understand why. Many thanks, Nick Moyes (talk) 15:34, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Tables and article format

I am attempting to remove some lines of data from the end of a table to make it less unwieldy and fit better in its proper section. Each time I've tried - once using the Visual Editor, once doing source editing (see here) - it removes the data but also moves the entire table out of its proper section ('Government') and into a different one further down the page ('Media'), for no reason I can discern. Working with tables is admittedly not my strong suit, but I am at a loss as to what I'm doing wrong. Any assistance would be appreciated, thanks! DrOrinScrivello (talk) 17:12, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

I think the problem is that you removed the "PresFoot" template at the end of the table. If you just replace the final "PresRow" entry with "PresFoot" it should fix it. CodeTalker (talk) 17:55, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

@CodeTalker - that was exactly it, and exactly why I try to avoid tables as I usually miss something small like that. Thanks for your help. DrOrinScrivello (talk) 18:28, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

What should you do on your own sandbox?

Can you get to do anything you want on your personal sandbox?

Thx Myrealnamm (talk) 20:11, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

No, not anything. See Wikipedia:Misuse_of_the_sandbox for some of the restrictions. RudolfRed (talk) 20:33, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

OK thank you! I just checked the Misuse of the sandbox page. Feel free to check my sandbox! Myrealnamm (talk) 21:06, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Initiating a new page

I have someone I want to add to Wikipedia -- someone who was a US trade ambassador under Clinton, has written three notable books on the U.S. Senate, and was a key player in several important pieces of legislation as a. Senate staffer. I wrote up what I want to say in a Word document. How do I create a page for him on Wikipedia? I've read the criteria for having such a page, and I think he meets the criteria. Thank you. Linda G. Ellicottsimple (talk) 20:44, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Linda, and welcome to the Teahouse. My advice to new editors is always not to try the very challenging task of creating a new encyclopaedia article until they have spent a few months making improvements to existing articles and learning how Wikipedia works.

Then, read your first article. Note that unless you have found the reliable independent sources that talk in some depth about him, you will not be able to establish that he meets Wikipedia's criteria for notability: nothing said, written, or published by him or his associates will contribute to this. ColinFine (talk) 21:17, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

The person you describe sounds more likely to be notable than many of the people that editors inquire about here, but Colin's advice still applies. I would search to check to make sure we don't already have an article about him, and if we don't, then you can start one at Draft:NameOfThePerson. Be sure to include citations to reviews of his books in high-quality sources. Then use {{subst:submit}} to submit it for review. Cheers, {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 22:11, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Before you try to write a new article, you are expected to read and understand everything in Help:Your first article, WP:NOTABILITY, WP:RS, WP:NPOV, WP:NOR, WP:V, WP:SIGCOV, WP:DEV, WP:RSP, WP:BLP, and WP:COI. Lilbrownhole (talk) 23:08, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Yikes. Don't worry, @Ellicottsimple, you really, really are not expected to read and understand all of that before you start. (If you do, people will accuse you of being a sockpuppet!) Sdkb gave you good advice - if he has written three books that are notable by Wikipedia's definition (that's at WP:NBOOKS), he should almost certainly have an article here. If you can show at least two major reviews for each of his books, you're good to go. The longer and more mainstream the better (think NYT, LARB, WashPo, etc). -- asilvering (talk) 03:44, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Marking a not verifiable page

How do I add the 'this page doesn't cite reliable sources' warning sign? Lucuusb (talk) 20:49, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Lucuusb, and welcome to the Teahouse. You find the appropriate template in Cleanup templates - probably {{more citations needed}}, but you might find a more appropriate one - and insert it at the top of the article (in the double curly brackets). ColinFine (talk) 21:20, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

@Lucuusb: If you're referring to an individual citation, you can add the tag {{failed verification}} after the closing </ref> tag of the citation. It appears like this: ~Anachronist (talk) 02:53, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

The easiest way is with Twinkle. Preferences>Gadgets>Browsing, if you want to turn this on yourself. -- asilvering (talk) 03:35, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Please note that it's highly recommened to attempt to fix the problem yourself first before tagging the article, as the amount of articles tagged with cleanup templates grows rapidly. Also pay attention if the article is worth it, you can read WP:CTT for more information NotAGenious (talk) 05:53, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

I think you're looking for {{unreliable sources}}, but consider fixing the problem yourself. You can just remove content supported by unreliable sources. Edward-Woodrow :) _[talk] 12:53, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Bug Report

When I download an article as a pdf, sometimes an error page will appear when I hit download. This first started happening yesterday. It does not always happen and and I don't see any pattern. My wifi connection is stable. Where should I report this bug? Khainelives (talk) 21:35, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

@Khainelives: You can ask about it at WP:VPT, please give more details about your browser, OS, and what the error message is. RudolfRed (talk) 21:48, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Draft:Dan Snyder (artist)

On July 17, following DoubleGrazing’s clear instructions on how to proceed with my draft edit for Draft:Dan_Snyder (artist). I was able to complete a full page edit using the visual editor. I pressed the publish button and received this error message:

Something went wrong

⧼No stashed content found for 1140753667/e08e44c8-1f5a-11ee-8c71-b04f13be4f10⧽

I went back to the help forum and asked how I should proceed. A member made an edit and now I have lost my edited page and I no longer have access to the visual editor to redo it. Can I undo what has happened by undoing that persons edit (which I can not decipher) or is there another way to get my visual editor back?

Thank you Jjcoste2 (talk) 23:41, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

@Jjcoste2: Unfortunately, if you look at the contribution history of that article - see https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Draft:Dan_Snyder_(artist)&action=history - there is no recent edit from you, so what you did is lost. Undoing the other editor's last edit would not recover what you submitted because what you submitted was never saved.

I understand that the visual editor does not handle edit conflicts well; this is when someone else submits an edit while you're in the middle of editing it yourself, causing your change to be for an older version of the article because someone else's edit created a newer version. The source editor tells you when there's an edit conflict and shows you both versions so you can reconcile them. ~Anachronist (talk) 01:32, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Ouch, sorry this happened. I usually use VE and never have this problem even when I have an edit conflict. I'm not sure, but maybe it's because I have the beta feature "Paragraph-based edit conflict" enabled. It's in Preferences>Beta Features, if you want to enable it yourself. -- asilvering (talk) 03:34, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi, and thanks. I edited it in source and it appears to have published. So perhaps I can now proceed with the process. Jjcoste2 (talk) 14:18, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi and thanks. I edited it in source and it appears to have publish. So perhaps I can now proceed with the process Jjcoste2 (talk) 14:14, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Something similar sometimes happens to me when I leave the editing tab open for too long. Try to avoid doing that, and hopefully this won't happen again. Edward-Woodrow :) _[talk] 12:51, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi and thanks. I edited it in source and it appears to have publish. So perhaps I can now proceed with the process Jjcoste2 (talk) 14:15, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

I don't know what happens in the visual editor, but in the source editor if you get an edit conflict it flags it up, and reports both the other editor's version and yours. Regardless, if I've made a big edit, one that required significant effort, I tend to copy the whole thing before submitting it, so when it all goes wrong (for instance because my internet falls over), I can re-open the editor and paste what I've done. Elemimele (talk) 15:49, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi and thanks. Yes I had a copy and was able to edit it in source and it appears to have published the edits. So perhaps I can now proceed with the process... Jjcoste2 (talk) 16:12, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Tagging for update

Which tag do you use for asking an article to be updated? James Kevin McMahon (talk) 06:46, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

The Template:Update page will help you with documentation on how to use the update template Waterard ^water?(talk | contribs) 06:54, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Many thanks James Kevin McMahon (talk) 09:52, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

But it is the {{update}} template Waterard ^water?(talk | contribs) 07:01, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Draft not approved

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Draft:Shang_Xia&oldid=1164835049 Hi there i have just submitted this draft but I have been informed there is not enough sources. I have included 7 references. Please can someone advise me how to proceed Tyrell Briggs (talk) 10:54, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Draft:Shang Xia has refs about financial transactions and changes in management, but lacks references that are at some length about the company and what is does. See WP:NCORP. David notMD (talk) 11:52, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Tyrell Briggs, I read that it's a company "known for handbags, shoes, ready to wear, and furniture", so I expect to read at least some material (from reliable sources, of course), about its handbags, shoes, frocks and furniture. But I don't. -- Hoary (talk) 12:17, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

@Tyrell Briggs: Welcome to the Teahouse! The number of sources isn't the bulk of the issue on its own. Those sources need to be reliable, independent of the subject, and have significant coverage of the subject and not just passing mentions. A good guide to crafting new articles is WP:BACKWARD; you should gather the appropriate sources first, then create the article around those, filling in the facts as found in the sources, instead of trying to find sources to fit the facts you want to include. - UtherSRG (talk) 12:29, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Citations to Wikimedia

I wanted to add a citation to the Bible in an article about a church. I wanted to link it to a Bible in Wikimedia. How do I do it? LewisF1GP (talk) 16:37, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

LewisF1GP: I've seen it done like this, though that's not a Wikimedia version of the bible, and only works for the OT. Maproom (talk) 16:54, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Additional information can be found at Template:Bibleverse. Cullen328 (talk) 17:06, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Senator JD Vance (OH)

Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._D._Vance I think it would be very relevant to include in your page that Senator JD Vance does not respond to his own constituents and his congressional website appears to be unmonitored, which would lead one to believe that he is not interested in his own state's views, beliefs or positions. Which would make it difficult for him to actually uphold his oath as a senator, not to meantion earn his taxpayer-funded paychecks. I have written to him time and time and time again. Might as well be hollering into a Holler.

Deb Genetin Dgenetin (talk) 16:51, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse. The place to propose this is on the talk page of the relevant article. We cannot take your word for it. You must also include a reliable source. Shantavira|^{feed me} 16:59, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Dgenetin. Content added to the biography of a living person must be verified by a reference to a a reliable, independent source. Also, Wikipedia articles must be written from the neutral point of view. Since you are an inexperienced editor, I recommend that you discuss this at Talk:J. D. Vance, bringing coverage in reliable sources with you. Cullen328 (talk) 17:03, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

You described your own experience on the Talk page and were advised that independent, published references about Vance's lack of responses to constituent communications are required if such a statement is to be added to the article about him. David notMD (talk) 21:41, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Merging pages

Can another editor help me merge Global Pet Expo with American Pet Products Association? Both have limited sourcing/content. Thoughts? Ca1h4r (talk) 17:28, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Looking at the 2 articles i think a redirect from Global Pet Expo to American Pet Products Association would be better. PaulGamerBoy360 (talk) 02:15, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

how to show two films in one year just like in List of highest-grossing Indian films

please help regarding this , that how can I add two movies in one year , for eg when you open this page go to 2009 section where you see two films were added , 3 idiots and magadheera Sumancranebuddy21q00 (talk) 19:51, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Sumancranebuddy21q00. TO do this you use rowspan=2 on the "year" cell. See Help:Table. ColinFine (talk) 21:01, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

can you show me an example please respected sir. Sumancranebuddy21q00 (talk) 21:28, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

@Sumancranebuddy21q00: You gave an example yourself: The 2009 cell at List of highest-grossing Indian films#Highest-grossing films by year. You can look at the wikitext. Help:Table#Combined use of COLSPAN and ROWSPAN has an example in the A cell. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:45, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Translation attribution

I just created the article Sachiko Kiyono and it contains a translation from her Japanese article. However, I forgot to put that in my edit summary. Even though I put a notice on the talk page I know I made a mistake. What should I do? (Also, how do I connect her new English article to her Japanese article in the language tab up top?) I would appreciate any help.  theomached  (talk) 23:04, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

@Theomached: the credit you've added on the talk page is sufficient. Also, the language tab is done with Wikidata; it has been added and if you do a hard refresh you should see it. Elli (talk | contribs) 23:09, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for your prompt reply. I will keep this in mind for the future.  theomached  (talk) 23:11, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Elli, Help:Translation#License_requirements says that "[a] new, translated article must credit the source article"; the method being: "Provide in the first edit summary of the target article a statement of your translation, together with an interlanguage link to the source (translated-from) article." It describes addition of a template to the talk page as an optional extra (and one can infer that it's a desirable extra), not as a substitute for an informative edit summary for the article itself. However, this edit of Theomached's has done the job. -- Hoary (talk) 01:22, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

@Hoary: Ah, you're right. Hadn't read the relevant guidelines in a while and misremembered them, thinking that talk page attribution was sufficient. My apologies. Elli (talk | contribs) 17:32, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello Teahouse!

I was wondering if there was a way to merge two accounts. I just started a new account but upon discovering that my old account was still active wanted to merge the new one with the old one so there isn't a redundancy. Thank you! SacredForest (talk) 00:05, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello @SacredForest! There is no way to merge accounts. What you can do is to mention your previous account on your userpage to show that you own both accounts. Ca ^{talk to me!} 02:35, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. I'll consider doing this. SacredForest (talk) 21:27, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

You can use the Template:User alternative account name for this. NotAGenious (talk) 08:07, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello, SacredForest. This may be a pedantic point, but the Teahouse does not have "moderators". Instead, the Teahouse has volunteer "hosts" who do their best to provide friendly and accurate answers to good faith questions. "Moderators" sounds similar to administrators, but Wikipedia administrators do not moderate content. I am an administrator. We deal with conduct issues mostly, and carry out the consensus of the community in various areas. In my five years as an administrator, I have never thought of myself as a "moderator". Cullen328 (talk) 08:18, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

I've deleted the word moderator. SacredForest (talk) 21:28, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Okay! Thank you SacredForest (talk) 21:27, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Advice on a possible first AfD

Long-time reader, short-time editor. I stumbled across this BLP of electronic musician Mike Dred recently while looking through some cleanup categories, and I think it ought to be removed or at best significantly reduced in scope. However, I can also tell that bringing a crummy AfD as one's eleventh edit and first nomination is unfortunately not a way to make good first impressions, so I'd like a second opinion:

• The article is in bad shape. I know that's not a deletion reason, but it seems like something that's important to keep in mind for BLPs. There are some outlandish claims, there's almost no sourcing, and the sources that are there aren't good. The Discogs link at the bottom checks out, unsurprisingly, but the link to [1] in the References section doesn't (checked via that site's search tool), and I can't find the article from The Rough Guide to Techno that was referenced inline.
  • Weirdly, the sentence that references The Rough Guide to Techno shows up verbatim in several (unreliable) places online if you search for the guy. I haven't dug into that but it smells fishy.
  • I'd also readily accept that the article does exist, given evidence, though I'm not sure it affects the overall calculus.
• I don't think the article's subject is likely to be notable according to GNG. I'm less sure of MUSICBIO because of 5. Has released two or more albums on a major record label or on one of the more important indie labels; is Rephlex "one of the more important indie labels"? I doubt it, but I'm not a subject-matter expert in the slightest. The article also claims he is 7. [...] one of the most prominent representatives of a notable style; "this guy inspired Aphex Twin" sounds like it would be important, but I can't find anything to back it up.
• I'm also not sure there would be enough verifiable information left for "keep but shrink." I wasn't able to find anything from a reliable source about the subject other than "he existed and he made those albums." We do have a fair number of music-related stubs, though, and for all I know trimming it down to a discography might be acceptable if MUSICBIO does apply even though I'm not sure I'd agree with the decision.
• I do think AfD would be the correct venue. The page is almost eligible for BLPPROD, since the inline reference and the one in the References section don't verify, but I believe the external link to the Discogs page disqualifies it since it backs up the discography. It's possible PROD would be appropriate, but I'm not sure because of the MUSICBIO concerns – I can at least think of how controversy could arise. The only place I can think of to discuss the article first (other than here) would be WikiProject Electronic Music, since the article's own talk page is barren and the major contributors were an IP and a user who hasn't been active since 2007, but I'm not actually sure how to get their attention other than nominating this for AfD anyways.

Let me know what you guys think, or if I'm overthinking this and I should just bring it to AfD since the worst that'll happen is it gets bounced. Thanks!

Box of wolves (feed) 01:03, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

@Box of wolves: If such an article had ever been submitted for review via WP:AFC, it would never have passed. I think it's ripe for AFD also, but if you're uncomfortable with that, a BLPPROD would be fine. ~Anachronist (talk) 01:28, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Anachronist: Thanks for the confirmation! I'll probably AfD it — I think I've got a good sense of how to do that, just wanted to make sure I was right about the why. Box of wolves (feed) 01:37, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Box of wolves, this has been labelled as problematic since 2015, but even then the problems were a decade old. Simply, it's been junk for 18 years. (A quote from back then: "As well as global industry experience Mike Dred has established links to academia as a Distinction Alumini of The University of Edinburgh having gained an MSc with Distinction in Sound Design in 2005." A distinguished alumnus or a distinctive member of the "Illuminati"?) Does the subject area interest you; and if it does, is Dred notable? If yes it does and yes he is, consider editing the article, radically. If he seems to be notable but you have more pressing demands on your time than demonstrating this, the article could be "draftified" (turned into a draft). If he doesn't seem to be notable, then yes, you could send this off to AfD. Anyway, if we ignore the promotional flatus, the article does make claims for notability; PROD would therefore be inappropriate. Starting a discussion at WT:WikiProject Electronic music might work. -- Hoary (talk) 01:42, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Box of wolves - Just now I did a search for this biography and added one to the article. For about 2-months, I have been doing the "Proposed deletion" / AfD process for articles unable to de-orphan. So I also still have much to learn. One of the search engine tricks I've learned is, for example here: "Mike Dred" Lowestoft, England. Quotes around article, followed by city or town or birth date, etc. This is not always successful but sometimes is good. Regards, JoeNMLC (talk) 01:56, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Oh, interesting (and good to know in the future), but that page you cited appears to contain an exact copy of an older version of the article's lead section, so it's gonna either be copyvio or WP:CIRCULAR (I'd assume the latter). Box of wolves (feed) 02:07, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

(@JoeNMLC: forgot the mention, see above) Box of wolves (feed) 02:09, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

arrow spacing icon

Sometimes using visual editor i see a little arrow icon that seems to indicate that spacing is off somehow. can someone tell me what this means? i see it in this article right before the line " Further areas EasyLogix is experienced in," for example. Iljhgtn (talk) 02:10, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello! The arrow icon means in that in source editing mode, there is a line break. Single line breaks are not rendered in published articles. Ca ^{talk to me!} 02:34, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia Adventure Issue - Stuck. in a loop

I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong, but the Wikipedia Adventure seems to get stuck in a loop when WillKomen leaves a message on my userpage. I click the friendly reply and the loop starts, and I also tried adding my own personalized reply, and submitted is sucessfully but it still puts me in a loop. Southpaw70 (talk) 03:11, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Southpaw70. If you are trying to play The Wikipedia Adventure game on a tablet, laptop or smartphone using the mobile site, you may run into problems. Scroll to the bottom of any page on mobile to switch to the fully functional though sadly misnamed desktop site, that works just fine on most modern mobile devices. Cullen328 (talk) 08:26, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Another option, if you are confident enough, is to just stop playing that silly game, and just start boldly editing the encyclopedia, learning as you go along. Cullen328 (talk) 08:29, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you @Cullen328, I will try both of those things. Southpaw70 (talk) 19:31, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Steps to Create Account and Page on Wikipedia

Steps to Create Account and Page on Wikipedia Singh Pankaj7230 (talk) 06:44, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

@Singh Pankaj7230: as previously advised on the AfC help desk, you already have an account ('Singh Pankaj7230'), and you can create a user page compliant with the WP:UP guidelines. The easiest route to creating new articles is via WP:YFA, which also includes a wizard for submitting your creation for pre-publication review. Note that you are not allowed to create promotional material, or content which otherwise is not in line with Wikipedia's purpose and objectives. HTH, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 07:26, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Singh Pankaj7230, Wikipedia is not a place for people to try to promote themselves. As a matter of fact, that behavior is forbidden on Wikipedia. Use Facebook and Twitter and Instagram and LinkedIn and countless other social media sites to tell the world about yourself. Keep your self-promotional efforts off of Wikipedia, please. Cullen328 (talk) 07:56, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Editing a page

I wanted to edit the page about czech traffic signs, but only the first image and first paragraph showed up and i couldnt go lower. HolubyDoHuby (talk) 07:26, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

If you mean Road signs in the Czech Republic, you need to click the edit button beside the title of the section you want to edit. Shantavira|^{feed me} 07:48, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

@HolubyDoHuby: Welcome to the Teahouse. I assume you are using the source editor and clicked on the "edit source" link next to one of the headings, which will only display that particular section for editing. You can have access to editing the entire article by clicking on "edit source" at the top of the page. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 17:23, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

In the mobile interface, there's no icon to click in order to edit the full article at once. There are two options to achieve this functionality:

1. Switch into the Visual Editor and back into the source editor
2. Edit the URL such that instead of ending e.g. editor/0, it ends editor/all (in this case, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_signs_in_the_Czech_Republic#/editor/all)

User:HolubyDoHuby, may you know it. Folly Mox (talk) 19:12, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Help needed

Can somebody please correctly transclude this SPI page for me Wikipedia talk:Sockpuppet investigations/SAMEBREED 202.164.131.11 (talk) 09:13, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello, IP, this has been  Done for you NW1223<Howl at me•My hunts> 13:58, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Need some assistance removing vandalism on the Farsi wiki

Hello, can anyone take a look at this and this page on the Farsi wikipedia? Please remove the references with text "SMM Panel," (social media marketing) as these are spam. Then, look at the user's global contributions list as I've found an account that spammed on multiple wikis and the same might be true here.

I don't know the language and the navigation is too different for me.

Also, I've been searching for `site:wikipedia.org "smm panel"` and the like on google, is this the best way to find similar vandalism?

Cheers Notlacanian (talk) 10:37, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

@Notlacanian, this is the English Wikipedia, and very few of our editors edit the Farsi Wikipedia, so consider requesting on the Farsi Wikipedia. Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 10:41, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

@Notlacanian You can find articles which contain specific text in their source code using an insource search. A search for "SMM Panel" currently gives only legitimate hits here on en:Wikipedia. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:02, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know, that's useful. Notlacanian (talk) 13:11, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Draft-copyvio dilemma

At the moment, I'm wondering how to handle Draft:Pleasantview (novel) (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs), created by one GxR18 (talk · contribs) back in early January and about to face G13. Pleasantview is actually within my regional/topical interests, as it happens to be a 2021 novel by Trinidadian author Celeste Mohammed; what we've found at ProQuest via WP:Library is promising by NBOOK standards. In its current state, it's tagged as a copyvio of this book guide, which I 70% doubt meets WP:RS according to its URL. Therefore lies the question: Should I tag it with {{copyvio}} and send it to WP:Copyright problems soon enough, or should I wait until G13 has passed to start anew and not cause a fuss? (Paging long-time TT contributor @Guettarda: One of the first I met on WP back in 2005, he might give us a bit of opinion just in case.) --Slgrandson (How's my egg-throwing coleslaw?) 11:14, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Slgrandson, I have deleted the "Characters" section, as a copy of part of the content of marmaladeandmustardseed.com/bookguidesblog/pleasantview. I searched within the latter for a number of distinctive strings that appear in the draft, but found none. Which other parts of the draft plagiarize? Copyright-violating text must be removed, and older versions including such text deleted, as quickly as possible. (Probably by somebody other than me, as I'm getting sleepy.) Once that's done, one can proceed to consider the text that remains, the reliability of the sources cited, etc. -- Hoary (talk) 12:04, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

@Hoary I've now done a WP:REVDEL on all the earlier revisions. Sleep well! Nick Moyes (talk) 13:30, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

How to adjust column widths

I pasted ia spreadsheet on to a page I'm composing, but the column widths need adjustment.  How can I adjust the column widths in the WSYWYG interface?  The page I'm composing is at: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?create=Create+new+article+draft&editintro=Template%3AAfC+draft+...

...and my OnWiki user name is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:PatrickStingley if that helps.

Thank you PatrickStingley (talk) 17:01, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

@PatrickStingley Irrespective of the editor you are using, I think that the problem is the very long URL in the first entry, which the table software is refusing to wrap. I think that a better solution would be to link the first column to the URL and not have any second column. So you could use Adobe Enhance AI as the first column/first row. Mike Turnbull (talk) 19:41, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Another advantage of that approach would be that you would have space for a column linking to the related Wikipedia article, if there was one: Adobe Photoshop in that instance. Mike Turnbull (talk) 20:19, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Sock revert needed

Can anyone please help to undo these 2 edits made by the sock. [2] and [3] at Joy Alukkas. The user who made this edit is a confirmed sock as per Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SAMEBREED. They have been abusing the page Joy Alukkas for a long period of time. 202.164.131.11 (talk) 18:05, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

IP editor. This looks to have been fixed by lettherebedarklight. Mike Turnbull (talk) 19:33, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Google chrome history deleted page, why?

Why was the google chrome history page deleted? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Chrome_version_history?source=post_page-----1e7d07966d6c---------------------- 188.24.213.176 (talk) 20:48, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, IP editor. This page should help explain things: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Google Chrome version history (2nd nomination). We hold deletion discussions in which the editing community can make recommendations on deletion or retention, based on our Notability criteria. It would appear that the community felt a page of version release notes was more akin to a manual than an encyclopaedia, and should be removed. Nick Moyes (talk) 21:06, 21 July 2023 (UTC)