Talk:MF Doom

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MF Doom has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: May 2, 2021. (Reviewed version).

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Frequently asked questions

Why doesn't Wikipedia write "MF DOOM" in all caps?

Wikipedia uses lowercase because:

Wikipedia has its own manual of style, and does not write things in BLOCK CAPS. See MOS:ALLCAPS for more information.

Per WP:PSTS, Wikipedia values reliable secondary sources (such as coverage in Rolling Stone, New York Times etc) over primary sources (such as Doom's albums, singles etc). In other words, how Doom chose to write his own name isn't important to Wikipedia.

Per MOS:BIOEXCEPT, Wikipedia only makes exceptions when an overwhelming majority of reliable secondary sources use that exceptional style. This is not the case for Doom — a great many reliable sources write Doom lowercase. See this non-exhaustive list for examples of how the name is written in secondary sources published since 2020.

Why does Wikipedia say MF Doom was British-American?

Wikipedia is based on reliable secondary sources. These sources variously describe Doom as American, British-American or British-born.

The consensus among Wikipedia editors is that "British-American" is the best compromise for the lead sentence. It reflects the plurality of sources and is a reasonable interpretation of his identity. The complexity of MF Doom's nationality and citizenship is described in detail in the article body.

This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

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A news item involving MF Doom was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 1 January 2021.

Wikipedia

This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.

Discussions:

Not moved, 13 September 2009, from MF Doom to MF DOOM, see discussion.
Not moved, 20 August 2013, from MF Doom to Daniel Dumile, see discussion.
Not moved, 7 February 2015, from MF Doom to MF DOOM, see discussion.

This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report. The week in which this happened:

December 27, 2020 to January 2, 2021 (2nd)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 February 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Relatives : Ashlyn Thompson Dumile Samuel ohanlon (talk) 21:01, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Cannolis (talk) 21:06, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

All Caps by Madvillian 1:15, DOOM is on the mic, sense y’all clearly aren’t fans 76.25.36.224 (talk) 12:56, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 28 February 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

i just wanna change anything titled as Doom to DOOM Vanhutenmilhouse1 (talk) 17:49, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: Per the MOS it's still not going to be changed to DOOM, please see many of the other messages on the talk page. Tuna

^VeniVidi_Vici 17:51, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I believe you may be misinterpreting the MOS. See: MOS:BIOEXCEPT Criedley (talk) 14:20, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Issue with American-British as a nationality

If he was born in Britain, died in Britain, never gained citizenship in America, and had no Ancestral/parental links to the USA, why call him American? He did grow up and live in the US, but surely this could be explained in the summary, instead of immediately putting American-British, to then be explaining that that is false.

You could change the paragraph to say “was a british rapper and record producer who grew up and mainly lived in the USA”.

I’m not an avid wikipedia user, so it’s possible i could be wrong, but i feel like this is just blatantly wrong. Even Trinidadian-Zimbabwean rapper is more correct than the current. AbsoluteMadness (talk) 01:15, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please see the FAQ at the top of this talk page. Popcornfud (talk) 03:24, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

His parents lived in the US he was only born in the UK because his mother was pregnant upon travel. He had ancestral links to the US, lived here the majority of his life, and was raised in NYC. 108.52.56.66 (talk) 16:28, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. Criedley (talk) 07:03, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 5 June 2024

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change the musical career origin location to Long Beach, NY, rather than just Long Island. This is where KMD was formed, which is where MF DOOM's musical career began. Orasoupas (talk) 23:55, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done LoganP25 (talk) 21:59, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

MF DOOM's name should be stylized correctly

Wikipedia's guidelines about this are clear, his stage name should be depicted in ALL CAPS as per his own request and how he is most commonly referred to. If you don't agree with that then why does the article for Spam (food) say "(stylized as SPAM)" when MF DOOM's article does not? If it is truly wikipedia policy and not pedantry then the SPAM article must also be changed or the MF DOOM article must be appended with "(stylized as MF DOOM)" at the very least. It is not right to fully deny MF DOOM correct display of his stage name, why does spam get that respect and a (former) living breathing person does not? Either change that article or this one. ReddestVelvet (talk) 16:23, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The lead sentence already says the name is "stylized in all caps". Popcornfud (talk) 18:09, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with this 100%. This is Wikipedia's policy—why is the article source for the introduction section commented with "Do not change to all caps - file is case sensitive"? This is extremely vague. Is this referring to the potential for broken redirects to this article? If so, why not simply query all redirects to this page and change the case of them to reflect the CORRECT styling. If there is no objection to this then that would suffice for consensus I think, and I will go ahead and perform that. Im also going to look at revision history and see if whoever commented on that can be PM'ed for a clearer explanation. Criedley (talk) 06:52, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The comment about the file being case-sensitive is referring to the infobox file MF Doom - Hultsfred 2011 (cropped).jpg. If you change it to MF DOOM - Hultsfred 2011 (cropped).jpg (uppercase) then the image won't load.

The lead sentence already says the name is stylized in all caps. That's sufficient. We don't need to write MF DOOM in all caps to demonstrate what we mean by all caps. Popcornfud (talk) 08:46, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

... And in fact, thinking about it more, the claim that the name is stylized in all caps isn't sourced or mentioned in the article, which leads me to suspect we shouldn't even include that. Popcornfud (talk) 08:47, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is a fact that his name is stylized in all caps, it is even expressly stated in his instagram bio.

Source: https://www.instagram.com/mfdoom?igsh=MTAxbGV2Z2FjbXox

The image issue can be easily fixed. Is there any other reason you think it should be in all caps?

Criedley (talk) 09:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please, lets not to revert evidence-based improvements to this article. It is pretty obvious that there is a consensus on this discussion page regarding how his name should be styled. Edit warring doesn't help. Criedley (talk) 09:21, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why does the image filename matter? Popcornfud (talk) 09:23, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Im not sure what you are asking by that question, could you reword it? In your previous comment you said the image wouldn't load if the styling was corrected, because of the image filename. If you're asking me why the filename matters, I have no idea. I also do not see how the content of an article could affect an image file, could you elaborate on that? Maybe I'm missing something. Criedley (talk) 09:30, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You wrote "The image issue can be easily fixed". What issue are you talking about and why does it need to be fixed? Popcornfud (talk) 09:45, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am referring to the reply you posted in this thread at 08:46, 24 June 2024 (UTC), where you stated:

"The comment about the file being case-sensitive is referring to the infobox file MF Doom - Hultsfred 2011 (cropped).jpg. If you change it to MF DOOM - Hultsfred 2011 (cropped).jpg (uppercase) then the image won't load."

Thats the issue I am referring to and if it is an actually issue it needs to be fixed so that "MF Doom" can he corrected to "MF DOOM", because:

•that is how it is de facto stylized

•that is how the subject of the article himself stylizes it, and most importantly:

•that was the consensus reached in this talk page Criedley (talk) 10:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can you explain why SPAM is *actually* stylized in all caps while MF DOOM's after merely says it should be but doesn't actually do it? Could you also explain why you fight so hard about this every single time it's brought up? There's a mountain of evidence that proves his name should be stylized in all caps and nearly no evidence that it shouldn't be and yet you are actually trying to argue that the article shouldn't even say *that* which i find absolutely ridiculous, I think you are arguing in bad faith and users who do not respect his legacy should not be allowed to edit his page because they're mishandling it, so much so that i think it may be on purpose. ReddestVelvet (talk) 10:16, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree and I think a third party should assist in this. Criedley (talk) 10:24, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Popcornfud: Are you aware of Wikipedia's edit warring policy? Criedley (talk) 10:41, 24 June 2024 (UTC) Criedley (talk) 10:41, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lets get back to the central topic of the dispute which is whether MF DOOM should be stylized in all caps. The infobox image doesn't really matter, I thought that was your reasoning for reverting the edits that corrected the styling of "MF DOOM". If something is stylized a certain way, then that is how it should be actually stylized. This is standard across Wikipedia and I don't really understand why those corrections were flippantly reverted. Criedley (talk) 10:21, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

MF DOOM wasn't born on July 13

He was actually born on January 9, 1971. There might be confusion because MF DOOM often wore a mask inspired by the Marvel Comics character Doctor Doom, who shares a birthdate of July 13. However, his actual birthdate is January 9. 93.44.121.205 (talk) 09:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You might be correct, but Wikipedia is written based on what reliable sources say. See Wikipedia:Verifiability, not truth. AstonishingTunesAdmirer 連絡 15:04, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestion: move page to “MF DOOM”

I believe that this is the consensus, just wanted to allow discussion. Criedley (talk) 14:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Read MOS:BIOEXCEPT Criedley (talk) 14:21, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That is not the consensus and you're being disruptive. Please read the FAQ and give it a rest. Popcornfud (talk) 14:44, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is consensus and they are not being disruptive, you are the only person who doesn't want to capitalize his stage name and you're being ornery about it. ReddestVelvet (talk) 14:50, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The MOS section referenced in the FAQ is not applicable to the styling of names in every instance, see MOS:BIOEXCEPT. Contradiction =/= discussion. There have been no valid arguments in favor of the way you seem to prefer it styled. Criedley (talk) 15:06, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RfC on name styling

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Should the stage name of an artist be styled in all caps if that is the way the artist explicitly wishes it to be styled, and that is how it is most often styled in sources? Criedley (talk) 14:59, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No. Wikipedia has its own manual of style, and does not write things in BLOCK CAPS. See MOS:ALLCAPS. This has been discussed to death on this talk page for years. See the FAQ on this talk page. Popcornfud (talk) 15:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I beleive you are misunderstanding that section of the MOS. That is how his stage name is styled, not a string of letters arbitrarily capitalized. See MOS:BIOEXCEPT Criedley (talk) 15:09, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]