User talk:Koavf/Archive011
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Please do not modify other users' comments or formatting.
Merge of Lithium (Ailyn song)
I see you place a merge tag on the Evanescence song Lithium's article, but gave no explanation on the talk page. I can see why you would suggest such a merge, but I'd still recommend a section be started by you on the Evanescence Lithium talk page. If such a merge were to go through, I would ask for a definitive source for the information in the article, other than simply saying it came from her website (aka, a source for release date and other such info). I can perform the merge with no problem, but I would like to have that. I can't see this being a particularly controversial move, given that there is no real notability attached to the song or article, so after about a week (unless something changes), I'll take care of it. — Huntster (t • @ • c) 03:28, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Could you explain why you performed this rename in light of the comments I had made underneath the proposal? The category clearly didn't meet the speedy criteria, and I placed my comment there trusting that that would be sufficient to let users know not to perform the change speedily. If I'm missing the criterion, please point it out to me. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:48, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
- Oh buddy This will sound improbable, but I actually read that response right after I made the change and I hadn't slept in awhile, so I was kind of out of my mind. Ugh. So sorry; I'll undo or re-list for CfD or whatever you think is best. -Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 08:14, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
- No, no. It's done; that's fine. I'm not looking to reverse it. Good Ol’factory (talk) 08:35, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Hello yet again. I regretfully inform you that the bot we were using to update the user status at Wikipedia:Highly Active Users, SoxBot V, was blocked for its constant updating. With this bot out of operation, a patch is in the works. Until that patch is reviewed and accepted by the developers, some options have been presented to use as workarounds: 1) Qui monobook (not available in Internet Explorer); 2) User:Hersfold/StatusTemplate; 3) Manually updating User:StatusBot/Status/USERNAME; or 4) Not worry about it and wait for the patch to go through, which hopefully won't take long. If you have another method, you can use that, too. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me. Useight (talk) 17:56, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Please explain your revert using the image talk page. I have discussed my rationale there extensively, while you have never once posted a comment there. Please see WP:BRD. Also I hope this isn't part of any long term pattern of disruptive editing. <eleland/talkedits> 18:34, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Rollback
Hello I saw you here and I was wondering if you could grant me rollback. My 1RR ArbCom enforcement ends today and I would like to have this to undo vandalism and mistakes. I had this and lost it earlier due to two reverts in a day. Of course, this is pretty low-level back-and-forth and I'm no longer on 1RR. -Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 07:30, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
- Due to your lengthy history of apparent reversion related issues I'm not inclined to grant this at this time, however I am far from the final word on this, and you can seek a wider audience at RFR. — xaosflux Talk 13:07, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Please take a look at Kalki
Hello, I notice you are an experienced editor in some Hinduism related subjects. Could you please take the time to look at Kalki? It is currently (in his own words) guarded by Ghostexorcist. And I don't have the experience to know how to make changes that don't get reverted. These are my concerns about it. See if you agree.
- An inordinate portion of the article is devoted to subjects tangential to the Hindu concept under the heading "Modern variations of the Kalki prophecy." I think this title itself is a contradiction in terms. What modern variation of the prophesy is there in Hinduism? It might read "modern interpretations" but Ghostexorcist will not allow even this to be discussed.
- The way the section is put together it gives the impression that the views of one author Savitri Devi Mukherji that Adolf Hitler was Kalki is a part of Hindu thought. By excluding other similar silly notions he puts un-due focus to that one idea, making Hinduism look morally baron.
- By having this Nazi allusion follow directly after Alejandro Biondini, a Nazi in Argentina, Ghostexorcist is de facto insisting on giving the Kalki concept a nazi connotation and I can't understand his motive.
- Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view#Undue_weight holds that Wikipedia is not a repository for opinions that almost no one holds - such as that Hitler was Kalki - a view that apparently a single Hindu author who is now dead had. By insisting on having this rare opinion kept highlighted he gives the impression this is a genuine Hindu view by not saying it is not. This seems a clear case of "undue weight" as defined by Wikipedia.
What I was hoping is that you might know one or two experienced editors like yourself that could bring some weight to bear on that article. As it is it goes nowhere as all serious changes are reverted by Ghostexorcist who says he guards the article. Thank you for your time. I hope you will help. Vedantahindu (talk) 14:10, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
CfD nomination of Category:Turks and Caicos Islander footballers
Category:Turks and Caicos Islander footballers, which you created, has been nominated for deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. – Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:16, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Deletion
Your cryptic explanation for deleting a cat. listing (future stories now past) is clear to me. I went to AWB, but it is a long convoluted discussion about bots. I didn't feel like spending 15-20 min. to maybe find out what it's all about. The cat. seems like a reasonable one to me, and the book would/does fall into that cat., so could you tell me the reason for deleting, using plain English? Thanks.Kdammers (talk) 08:28, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
- (as a side note) I declined the speedy at that time because it was not empty (15 articles or so). I have no opinion on the deletion itself, but the speedy process was not OK (rule of a thumb: if you use db-reason, that means 90% of the time that the deletion is out of process) -- lucasbfr talk 08:51, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
"Fan mail"
Thank you for your note. I hadn't thought about the fact that some people might click on the link and expect to find legitimate fan mail. I'll change its description. Thanks again. — [[::User:Malik Shabazz|Malik Shabazz]] ([[::User talk:Malik Shabazz|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Malik Shabazz|contribs]]) 02:03, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Move completed. Cheers.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 22:45, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
EL
Moving of Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough and Shop 'Til You Drop
I noticed you contested these moves on the basis that the word "until" is capitalized normally. This doesn't matter in the following cases, as the word is not "until", but "'til", which is a conjunction less than five letters long. It means the same thing as until, but it is a different word. See my response to your comments; not capitalizing "'til" is supported by both Wikipedia:Naming conventions (capitalization) and Wikipedia:WikiProject Music/MUSTARD#Capitalization, rule 2. Besides that, there are a ton of articles that use a non-capitalized contraction of long conjunctions and prepositions; I'll post the list I put on WP:RM to show you:
And yes, there are more examples as well. Sorry for sounding jerkish, but I am very concerned about capitalization of Wikipedia articles, because it is an utter mess right now. -Xnux the Echidna 19:39, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
- Trust me, capitalization is definitely a mess. Despite that bulky list, I could create an even longer list of articles that incorrectly capitalize "'bout", "over", "down", "off", "out", and "than". It's a nightmare O_o. -Xnux the Echidna 19:55, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
- So... can I go ahead and move Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough and Shop 'Til You Drop back to the uncontroversial moves section? -Xnux the Echidna 20:02, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
CfD nomination of Category:Wikipedia contact role accounts
I have nominated Category:Wikipedia contact role accounts (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at the discussion page. Thank you. — Parent5446 ☯ (message email) 23:46, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
— Parent5446 ☯ (message email) 00:32, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Bahai Faith project
Personally, I wouldn't remove any banners just yet, particularly considering the project in question has only one member. What I would do is definitely add it to the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals page to get a few more members before placing any more banners. If the projects later become inactive, they tend to be incorporated into one of the larger projects, and their banners deprecated and replaced with an altered "parent" project banner allowing for separate assessments. The first thing I would do, however, would be to seek additional members. Then, if it has a little support, maybe changing it to a task force of Religion. If it has more support, then there would be cause for a separate project. But first the group needs to get enough members to indicate it is viable. John Carter (talk) 14:17, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Little context in Category:Alumni of the University of Colombo
Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on Category:Alumni of the University of Colombo, by another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because Category:Alumni of the University of Colombo is very short providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles.
To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting Category:Alumni of the University of Colombo, please affix the template {{hangon}} to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Feel free to contact the bot operator if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot, bearing in mind that this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion; it does not perform any nominations or deletions itself. To see the user who deleted the page, click here CSDWarnBot (talk) 09:00, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
Archive - Moses
A question regarding the method used to create the archive of Talk:Moses:
I noticed you used the page move method rather than the normal copy and paste method; would you kindly explain your reasoning in doing so? Thank you Dbiel (Talk) 13:29, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks for the reply. When I used the term normal, it is based on my limited understanding of Wikipedia. It is also based on my experience when archiving talk pages that the entire talk page is not archived but only the older portions, in which case moving the history of the new edits would be wrong. In the case of Talk:Moses there were no new edits that needed to be retained. As far as adding it to your watch list, there really should be no difference, but that does depend on how you have your preferences set which has 3 options, pages I create, pages I move, and pages I edit. Then there is always the option to click on "watch" to added it. Thanks again for the reply Dbiel (Talk) 20:51, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
Archiving
You've archived Talk:Vincent van Gogh and Talk:Pablo Picasso. Please don't archive talk pages like this in which you are not a participant, without consulting with the regular editors. There are at least 3 current threads on the VG talk page which you have archived. In addition, you have used the move method for Picasso archive 2, whereas archive 1 is cut and paste. This is really confusing. Let editors using the talk page decide which method they want to use. I always use cut and paste, as it is the easiest for most editors to use (including me) and can be done easily as and when required. I don't think you're correct with archive changes not showing up after cut and paste, as this is how I archive my user talk pages, and archive changes do show up. Please revert these moves you have made. Thanks. Ty 00:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
- The above is an example of why the move method of creating archives can create problems. If there are previous archives that used the cut and paste method and then the move method is used to create a new archive, the history files become a mess. The entire history of the talk page including the previous archives will be attached to the new archive with one easy way to fix it. Additionally, active topics should not be archived which can not be avoided when using the move method. Dbiel (Talk) 02:44, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
- History and active discussions The history will obviously be moved with the page, but that's part of the point. I suppose if cut-and-paste had been used prior it could be problematic to search the history, but if cut-and-past had been used, it would be impossible to see the history of that archive anyway - users' comments will all be moved en masse under one account. As you can see on Ty's talk, I did not move active topics; I am aware that such is a serious problem. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 02:58, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
- Cutting and pasting is typically preferable to page-move archiving. xenocidic (talk) 10:55, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
- It is preferable to retain the entire talk page history in place rather than have it moved to the archive. Though admittedly, there is no policy. I don't see any significant advantage in page-move archiving. As you can see above, your preference for page-move archiving is (seemingly) of the minority, thus, you should seek consensus before performing page-move archiving (especially when past page archives have used cut&paste). xenocidic (talk) 20:35, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
- I've never seen anyone complain about cut-and-paste archiving (as it is standard, this is how bots do it, etc.), however, as you can see from the above, people do not like pagemove archiving. I suppose my only desire here is for you to seek consensus before performing such moves, and furthermore, I took a look at some of the archiving you've done and frankly didn't see a need for the archiving in the first place. There's no need to nearly completely harvest a page when archiving it, for example, as you did at Talk:Charles Darwin. The talk page was not overly lengthy. xenocidic (talk) 21:44, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
- It is preferable to retain the entire talk page history in place rather than have it moved to the archive. Though admittedly, there is no policy. I don't see any significant advantage in page-move archiving. As you can see above, your preference for page-move archiving is (seemingly) of the minority, thus, you should seek consensus before performing page-move archiving (especially when past page archives have used cut&paste). xenocidic (talk) 20:35, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
- Cutting and pasting is typically preferable to page-move archiving. xenocidic (talk) 10:55, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
- History and active discussions The history will obviously be moved with the page, but that's part of the point. I suppose if cut-and-paste had been used prior it could be problematic to search the history, but if cut-and-past had been used, it would be impossible to see the history of that archive anyway - users' comments will all be moved en masse under one account. As you can see on Ty's talk, I did not move active topics; I am aware that such is a serious problem. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 02:58, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
You said on User talk:Dbiel:
- Sure I don't mind explaining. I use the move method for two reasons: it's what I've always used and it results in watching the moved talk - this way, if someone vandalizes a talk archive, someone might notice.
If you use cut and paste, the archives will still be watched and any vandalising will still be noticed. Some article talk pages can end up with a large number of archives. With move archiving, the history is moved also, so each archive has the history of its edits. That means the entire history is chopped up, so to search it, you have to enter each archive and look through. With cut-and-paste, the whole history of the talk page is kept in one place, namely with the main talk page, so it's much easier to look through it to find something—then use the date to look in a particular archive where it now resides. Also with cut-and-paste, it's easy to add something extra into the archive, if it fits properly with it, i.e. you can add sections as they become outdated on the talk page. With the move method, it has to be done in one big block, and it's then very complex to add anything further, as it requires a complex merge, needing admin assistance for deletion, in order to accomplish that. As far as the Van Gogh talk page is concerned, it's a very slow moving article, so talk may well take place over a long time period.
Your efforts to help are appreciated, but need to be done more cautiously. By all means set up the archive box, but please post on the talk page as to what you intend to archive, before doing it, so regular editors of that article can respond. I strongly suggest using cut-and-paste, because, as I've pointed out above, it is more adaptable, and, from my observation, the most commonly used method, so one which is likely to be expected. If you do want to use the move method, then again it is courtesy to gain consensus for this from the editors working on that article, as they are likely to have to follow up in the future with archiving.
I didn't reverse your actions. That was someone else.
As pointed out above, the two methods should not be mixed, as it results in a complete history mess. Also it is usually good for the most recent posts on a talk page to be left, even if apparently finished, because a) they might not be finished - someone else may have something to add b) it is useful to be able to look over these and clues new editors to the article into what has been going on.
Constant reversion
I don't understand what you are doing?. I am trying to contribute with my best. I have a seen a biased representation of the historical facts and I tried to correct it what is wrong with this. Please stop yourself, or do your home work of reading. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bristmed (talk • contribs) 18:01, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Copernicus Talk
Why did you move (i.e., redirect) the entire Talk page for Nicolaus Copernicus to an archive page? Including recent posts? And then create a new, blank Talk page for the article? That is not a normal way of archiving because it wipes out the entire Talk page history. Also, the new Talk page that you made does not even showing were the archives are or that any exist. Your move also broke all the links to the old archive pages. I also do not recall seeing you as a recent participant in the article or its Talk page, so I do not understand why you took it upon yourself to do this. Please explain. Finell (Talk) 12:13, 17 June 2008 (UTC) (To preserve the continuity of the conversation, I will watch for your reply here on your Talk page.)
- Discussion It appeared to me that discussion was at a standstill as the only comments for the past two weeks were spam and what appeared to be a consensus on a controversy. Moving is a recommended method of archiving, and I honestly don't know how normal it is compared to cut-and-paste. If you actually have some data, I would genuinely be interested in seeing it.
- I'm at a bit of a loss about your allegations: once moved, there was a link to the new archive; it is automatically generated by {{talkheader}}. If you mean that I did not include a link in the archive box floating on the side of the screen you are correct and that is simply an oversight of mine; I should have done that and I'm sorry for being negligent. I archived several talk pages that seemed too long, including this one. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 19:08, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
- As you can see, there's numerous people coming to your talk page to complain about pagemove archiving. How about you try cut-and-paste archiving a few pages, and see how many people come and complain? I would be willing to bet the number will be close to zero. xenocidic (talk) 12:27, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
- Okay You've made your point. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 19:08, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
Did you take note that the previous two archives were done using cut and paste before using move to create the next archive? Dbiel (Talk) 20:09, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
- I had not seen you previous post at User talk:Tyrenius which deals with this question. I am glad that you agree that mixing archive methods is not a good idea. Dbiel (Talk) 20:18, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
- Regardless of which method you use, archiving is best done by someone who is familiar with the particular article and talk page involved or a bot that has been set by such an editor. Nicolaus Copernicus, for example, has a long and contentious edit history on the subject of Copernicus's nationality and long and contentious Talk page discussions about it. It is better for a newcomer to the page to see at least a good sampling of that discussion rather than make some blunder, through ignorance of the discussion, that will reignite the war between Poland and Germany. Please stop your mass archiving campaign. Thank you. Finell (Talk) 21:35, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
- Stop? If you want to see how many archives I've done and when, you can look at my contributions. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 21:51, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
- As far as I can tell, Koavf stopped archiving after people began raising concerns. The original attempts were in good faith. However, I do echo Finell's desire not to have a talk archive completely harvested. xenocidic (talk) 21:55, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
- Stop? If you want to see how many archives I've done and when, you can look at my contributions. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 21:51, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
- Regardless of which method you use, archiving is best done by someone who is familiar with the particular article and talk page involved or a bot that has been set by such an editor. Nicolaus Copernicus, for example, has a long and contentious edit history on the subject of Copernicus's nationality and long and contentious Talk page discussions about it. It is better for a newcomer to the page to see at least a good sampling of that discussion rather than make some blunder, through ignorance of the discussion, that will reignite the war between Poland and Germany. Please stop your mass archiving campaign. Thank you. Finell (Talk) 21:35, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
Proposal to discourage pagemove archiving
See Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Proposal to discourage pagemove archiving. xenocidic (talk) 14:48, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
- Thank you I'm interested in seeing where this goes. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 19:08, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
- cheers. while it may seem like it, I'm not trying to beat this over your head or anything, I just think that we should investigate and see if there is indeed a consensus to standardize archiving procedure. xenocidic (talk) 19:11, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
- Sure I'm assuming good faith - you're trying to get some resolution on the matter and you're not being a jerk about it. We may not see eye-to-eye, but I've got no beef with you. Let me know if I can be of any further assistance. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 19:15, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
- Happy editing. =) xenocidic (talk) 19:26, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
- Sure I'm assuming good faith - you're trying to get some resolution on the matter and you're not being a jerk about it. We may not see eye-to-eye, but I've got no beef with you. Let me know if I can be of any further assistance. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 19:15, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
- cheers. while it may seem like it, I'm not trying to beat this over your head or anything, I just think that we should investigate and see if there is indeed a consensus to standardize archiving procedure. xenocidic (talk) 19:11, 17 June 2008 (UTC)