Talk:Albert Einstein

Was Einstein an atheist?

"The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this".

In light of the above newly available quote, are we now justified in identifying Einstein as an atheist? Nick Graves (talk) 02:22, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

No, Einstein really defies labeling. We don’t need any label, and if we did, “agnostic” would probably be more accurate. —teb728 t c 03:56, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Agnostic won't be a good label for him. Agnosticism is when you don't believe in proof there is a God or there's not one. You can debate that about him to. Atheist would be most correct because he did not believe in God and if you read his writings you can tell he's atheist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fire 55 (talk • contribs) 06:15, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

As Fire 55 argues, you can indeed infer from Einstein's writings that he was an atheist, but wouldn't that be orginal research? He himself used the term agnostic: see, for example his letter to M. Berkowitz of October 25, 1950, quoted in the article. --Old Moonraker (talk) 06:43, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

I think Einstein left this point on religion clearly stated, there are plenty of references on this, however the discussion is very interesting,indeed, please do not stop. Missingdata1 (talk) 15:03, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

If a label is going to be issued, I think Einstein would be considered a pantheist. According to this quote at least: "A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestation of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty - it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this sense alone, I am a deeply religious man."

Einstein was most definitely not an atheist has he never fully rejected the concept of a God(s), but nor was he an agnostic. Throughout his life he vented his frustration with people misinterpreting his religious beliefs, so as tribute I think it's fair we not misinterpret. But my main concern is that people are going to start pushing Einstein as an atheist in this article.

so, let's not!

anyways, thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.181.148.148 (talk) 01:43, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

"I received your letter of June 10th. I have never talked to a Jesuit priest in my life and I am astonished by the audacity to tell such lies about me. From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist. - Albert Einstein, letter to Guy H. Raner Jr, July 2, 1945,"

Greg Locock (talk) 11:24, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Notice the qualifier: "From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest". This does not mean that he considers himself an atheist. This question is pretty clearly taken care of by this article's Religious Views section, so the discussion is pretty pointless now. His Ryanness (talk) 16:50, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Einstein's position on theism seemed to change throughout his life. As we seem to be dealing with quotations (for some reason or another), he started of with the infamous quote;

"I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts; the rest are details."

And seemed to end on this:

"I'm not an atheist. The human mind is not capable of grasping the Universe. We are like a little child entering a huge library. The walls are covered to the ceilings with books in many different tongues. The child knows that someone must have written these books. It does not know who or how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. But the child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books---a mysterious order which it does not comprehend, but only dimly suspects."

From what I can asertain, Einstein seemed to be at points either a psuedo-pantheist or quasi-agnostic. The question of God is an open one for Einstein, he was neither this or that, but had a quite respect for the "mysterious order" that "governs the universe". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.70.26.240 (talk) 17:06, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Humanist seems to the best description for him Absolute Relativity (talk) 03:55, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

That's a stretch. Wikifan12345 (talk) 23:32, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

I would have to agree with the unsigned user that "pantheist" would probably be the most appropriate label if any were appropriate. Einstein was heavily influenced by Baruch Spinoza and made reference to this fact (including reference to god). What we get from Spinoza is a god is not "supernatural" or outside the universe creating the universe or a "personal god" concerned with the affairs of human beings but rather we get a "naturalized" god who was equated with nature. Much of Einstein's comments about "god" can be interpreted as that overall deterministic order to the universe of which Einstein and other scientists were attempting to uncover. Somrh (talk) 06:51, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Einstein was quoted as saying that he was not an atheist and did not think he was a pantheist. By what I have read, I think that he was a deist. --UberScienceNerd _{Talk Contributions} 21:22, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

OK, so far we’ve got Agnostic, Atheist, Deist, Humanist, Pantheist, Psuedo-pantheist, and Quasi-agnostic. (Did I miss anything?) There seem to be as many different answers as there are people offering them. —teb728 t c 23:02, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

I vote for the label Don'tYouDareTryingToStickNonPhysicsRelatedLabelsOntoMe-ist. DVdm (talk) 08:51, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

so with all these conflicting reports, why label him at all? its not like religious view-point changes the significance of his work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.45.106.103 (talk) 10:22, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Correct improper link in Collaboration and conflict section

In the Collaboration and conflict section, there is a link to determinism in the sentence

Einstein's disagreement with Bohr revolved around the idea of scientific determinism

. This needs to be changed to a link to Scientific determinism, which is pointedly different than the philosophical question of determinism that is currently shown. 75.151.79.169 (talk) 20:53, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Scientific determinism currently redirects to Determinism. — DAGwyn (talk) 21:18, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Ludek Zakel

A physicist in Prague, Ludek Zakel, claims to be the son of Albert Einstein and his second wife, Elsa, given at birth in a Prague hospital to Mrs. Zakel, whose own son, born at the same time, had died. (Zakel himself has no web presence that I can find, so I conclude he was not, himself, a notable person.) Stories about Zakel and his claims have been published the NYT http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990CE4DC1F3AF931A15754C0A963958260 and in TIME magazine, although that was a long time ago, and I found no TIME article on the internet. The story presented in the NYT article is believable, and so I think that reporting this claim is appropriate on this page. What do others think about this? (Please read the article before deciding.) Vegasprof (talk) 20:56, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

The claim doesn't seem plausible to me, and anyway, without reliable documentation it shouldn't be included in an encyclopedia. — DAGwyn (talk) 13:08, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Way too long!

this article is way to long! shorten it to seperate articles--Nick54321blastoff (talk) 05:03, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

There is a lot to say about Einstein.. The regular editors of the Einstein article have reduced its size considerably from what it once was, and try to minimize the amount of new material that gets added, much of which would qualify as "trivia". I don't know how the article could be split up without causing more inconvenience than it addresses. — DAGwyn (talk) 22:50, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Agree with both of you. The religion part is disproportionately long, and if Nick or someone else could condense IT a bit, perhaps everyone would be happy.Sfahey (talk) 00:32, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

nobel nominations

hi,

he's been nominated 50 times before receiving the prize. [1] i think this is quite an interesting info.

216.80.119.92 (talk) 20:14, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

He was less than 50 years old when he received the prize so he couldn't have been nominated in fifty different years. —teb728 t c 21:25, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

good thinking! yeah, i don't know specifics about the way nominations were counted... 216.80.119.92 (talk) 22:08, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

I thought that Einstein was human

You wouldn't know it from this article! 99.140.200.24 (talk) 03:23, 20 August 2008 (UTC)