Talk:Canada

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Montage

Do you guys think it would be suitable to put a montage for the Canada page? The country is pretty large with different landscapes and such

Full/Proper Name for Canada?

Is the complete name for Canada "the Dominion of Canada"? 24.80.236.14 (talk) 00:18, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

• No the full name is just Canada. Read this Kyle1278 (talk) 01:10, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

The Dominion of Canada is the full name of this country (whose short-form name is just Canada).

Beginning around 1960, revisionist-historians and the French-Canadian statesman of Canada successfully changed the "usage", and the long-form name (i.e., Dominion of Canada) of this country has been systematically suppressed.

The majority of Wikipedians polled here support its systematic suppression.

"Alas ... the Tyranny-of-the-Majority"

ArmchairVexillologistDonLives! (talk) 03:59, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't appear suppressed at the link given above: Name of Canada. We simply haven't the room for a complete discussion of the arguments for what is the complete name of Canada in this overview article and use what is clearly the consensus both here at Wikipedia and used in the real world today and, instead, link to the Name article for further details. I agree that the name is Canada but it is entitled the Dominion of Canada much like the Republic of the United States of America or the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. DoubleBlue (talk) 04:36, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

No.

The Dominion of Canada is long-form name of Canada.

The United States of America is long-form name of America.

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is long-form name of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

The usage of the Dominion of Canada has been systematically suppressed so as to not upset French-Canadians and the Irish-Canadian Republican faction of English-Canada.

ArmchairVexillologistDonLives! (talk) 06:28, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

• Blatant appeals to anti-French and anti-Irish racism aren't going to help an argument already so thoroughly discredited. The long for name of the country is Canada, and a) every editor here knows this, so consensus will always be on the side that Canada is the full long form name, and b) the real world knows this, so every good outside source knows this. Thus gone are the two major avenues for getting information included in Wikipedia. Your best bet remaining is to write a book on the subject, find a respectable publisher willing to publish it, then appeal to that source. Cheers, WilyD 11:42, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

We've been through all this before, months ago. CANADA, is the country's full name. Continuing this argument, is merely grinding an axe. GoodDay (talk) 16:40, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

ArmchairVexillologistDonLives!, "United States of America" is not the long-form name for America. America is a common name for "United States", but can also mean the Americas. United States is the short-form name for "The United States of America", which is the long-form name. Enter CambridgeBayWeather, waits for audience applause, not a sausage 11:09, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, Cambay, I spotted that too! I just didn't want to see more double-spaced blue-fonted reprises if I pointed it out. I was really hoping this would all just go away. Did you notice how no current and reliable sources were advanced to support the necessity of a "long form" name?

Don, maybe you should head over to Glasgow, someone over there is insisting that it is actually "City of Glasgow" in the absence of any current evidence. Franamax (talk) 11:20, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

I also noticed that the Name of Canada article has nothing at all about the Dominion of Canada name being suppressed by the French/Irish Canadians. Enter CambridgeBayWeather, waits for audience applause, not a sausage 13:03, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

ArmchairDon has been pushing his original research on this for ages, and has never been able to present credible enough evidence to convince the Wikipedia community of his view, which is clearly based in his opinions about French/English relations and Irish/English relations in Canada. There is no point in reopening this issue again. It has been argued to death. You can review the archived discussions on this linked from the tiop of this page. Ground Zero | t 15:43, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

I have read them all as they were created. I know I shouldn't have replied but the USA comment was so obviously wrong that I had to. The whole naming thing reminds me of the never ending football/soccer/association/gridiron discussion. Enter CambridgeBayWeather, waits for audience applause, not a sausage 20:37, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Hello CambridgeBayWeather.

I wrote this,

"The United States of America is long-form name of America."

to which you commented was "so obviously wrong".

Firstly, the United States of America is a (official) long-form name.

Secondly, the (un-official) short-form name(s) are America, the United States, or simply the States.

One more thing CambridgeBayWeather,

"America the Beautiful"

Perhaps being a "musician looking for lyrics" you might look that one up.

(CambridgeBayWeather's music lyric site http://www.alansim.com/ )

You might want to add "America the Beautiful" to your list, since you appear to be ignorant of its existance eh.

ArmchairVexillologistDonLives! (talk) 23:43, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Question regarding this topic

I don't want to shut down a valid debate, but... having reviewed some of the extensive history regarding this topic, it does not appear that there is any support for what AVD is proposing. If there is actual support for continuing this discussion in perpetuity, please let me know. Similarly, please advise if this matter has reached the point of becoming disruptive. --Ckatz^chat_spy 00:26, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

There is no support. No reliable sources exist that back up AVD's claim regarding the current existence of a long-form name for Canada. The matter has long since reached the point of becoming disruptive. - Eron^Talk 00:37, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

No support for continuing, since RS have never been shown for such usage since at least the Constitution Act. Disruptive since the same -stuff- happens over and over, started by an IP this time. AVD is a predictable distraction, but these repeated threads keep the rest of us from more serious work. I'm happy to consider actual evidence, but otherwise I'd support action under WP:DE. Franamax (talk) 00:47, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Shut down debate and protect from re-creation. (sigh! If only we could!)--Ramdrake (talk) 00:57, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Simply "Canada" has been the official name of the country on all federal and legal documents since the 60's, so that is the name of the country, like it or not. It's not short for a longer name for the country. We're not the "Federation of Canada" or the "Canadian Federation" or the "Dominion of Canada", even though these (except the latter) could be valid names for Canada. As a Canadian citizen who has never left the country, part of my public school history class taught us that after the Constitution Act, 1982 the name "Dominion of Canada" was no longer the official title of the country but instead it became simply "Canada", because all references to Canada in the constitution AND the charter simply call it "Canada", thus adopting it as the official name of the country on all federal and legal documents since then. There's no debate here, the country is simply called "Canada", unless you are referring to the pre-1982 "Dominion of Canada". There's no in between, that's just that way it went in my country. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.136.137.24 (talk) 17:00, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

There you go. An anonymous editor's elementary school teacher said it's so. The debate is over. Thank goodness. DoubleBlue (talk) 21:17, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

That was unnecessarily bitey. Anonymous editors have as much right to contribute to the discussion as the rest of us. - Eron^Talk 21:29, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

You are correct. I did not mean to imply that. I simply meant that the source of the wisdom was somewhat vague; i.e. the teacher. Thanks. DoubleBlue (talk) 21:34, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Can I comment on this?

ArmchairVexillologistDonLives! (talk) 21:54, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

*Add Human Development Index rank*

{{editsemiprotected}} The requested edit is to add the sentence "Canada has the third highest Human Development Index rank in the world." just before the last existing sentence which begins "It is a member of the G8, NATO..." The idea for this new sentence came from reviewing similar statements in other country descriptions. See Ireland's for example. Paul David Robert (talk) 08:41, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate.

The HDI is a moving target. Canada was number one for a while, as I recall. I'd support something like "In recent years, Canada has consistently ranked near the top of the HDI.[source]" - but it may need to be balanced by negative views as well. Franamax (talk) 01:01, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Agreed that it is a moving target but I'm not sure why there would need to be negative views added for balance. Canada's consistent high ranking on the HDI is a matter of verifiable fact, not opinion. - Eron^Talk 01:16, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Agree we should stick to the facts. In checking precedence set by several other country introductions, including US, England and Ireland, we see moving targets abound. Examples include % Purchasng Power, GDP and previously mentionned Ireland which has a number of ranks. The vast majority state the year of the ranking rather than generalise with a la "in recent years..." So suggest we follow existing norms and amend simply to "In 2008, Canada had the third highest Human Development Index rank in the world." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Paul David Robert (talk • contribs) 16:44, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Well, the facts are still facts and it's easy to show Canada's consistently high ranking. It's a little silly too, since the HDI is not designed to pick the "best" country, all the ones at the top are pretty darn close. Rather, it is an index to show progress in the less-developed world. Also I note that Iceland is currently at the top of the index - but anyone familiar with world news is aware that it is a well-educated and literate country whose GDP is plummeting while external debt has soared. It sure won't be number one next year. :(

More generally, and in respect to my comment about needing some balancing, my concern there is cherry-picking of the "good" numbers, aka creating a "puff-piece". Especially in the lede, this seems to be WP:UNDUE. There are many world rankings where Canada does not score so well, per-capita energy use for instance or energy use per unit-GDP; poverty rates; competitiveness ranking; days-on-strike per unit labour; condition of indigenous peoples; economic productivity; Olympic performance for that matter. Picking only the best measure, and a diffuse one at that, seems a little much for the lead.

Also note that the HDI rank is already shown in the infobox. How many times does it need to be mentioned? Franamax (talk) 23:49, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Nobody Cares?

Canada is frequently referenced in pop culture as a country no one cares about (c.f. Daily Show, South Park, etc.). I think this deserves a reference. 128.146.46.2 (talk) 18:19, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Given that this was accompanied by the addition of a tag requesting that the article as a whole be checked for notability, I have my doubts as to the good faith of this comment. But hey, if you think something needs to be added, and if it is verifiable and supported by reliable sources, then go for it. - Eron^Talk 18:23, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

No one cares about? I don't know about that. CNN, heavily covered President Obama's first foreign trip (which was to Canada). In fact, Larry King Live did a special on it. GoodDay (talk) 19:59, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

If someone actually believes shows like South Park and the Daily Show they are very close minded. I almost pity them.Kyle1278 (talk) 20:29, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

I would say most people don't care much about any country but their own unless it effects them. Canada is no different to any other country in that way. Little Tuck (talk) 21:07, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

See Canada on Strike! and the George Carlin quote "And while all this is going on, Canada burns to the ground, but nobody notices.". 128.146.46.2 (talk) 15:06, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

its called a joke its not true. Your very narrow minded. Kyle1278 (talk) 16:30, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Please note: I was joking about CNN coverage of Prez Obama's Canadian trip. CNN (and other American networks) gave it little-to-no coverage. But, had it been another country??? GoodDay (talk) 16:39, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

You could equally say the same about any country you can say everyone hates America. That has defiantly been in pop culture but you don't see anything about it on the United States article so i thing it would be inappropriate to put something like that on any article about any country especially an article of FA class. Kyle1278 (talk) 16:54, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

/* Nobody Cares? */ Who cares? No country's citizens should feel they have to be validated by those of another. That would be an excercise in unending frustration. In reference to CNN as a barometer of what matters, I remember not that many years ago in London a million people marched against the war in Iraq. CNN's coverage gave it not a mention. No, this self-proclaimed "most trusted" news outfit instead provided several hours of looping Micheal Jackson arrest clips. Now there was a who cares moment. And for the edification of the American who started the silly recommendation, who cares in the USA would have to include Obama who spoke in very complementary terms of Canada and its people and recognising the USA's biggest supplier of imports, biggest supplier of oil, biggest supplier of natural gas, etc. Fox news coverage was quite complimentary also noting Canada's serious fighting contribution in Afghanistan. Who cares in USA?: American soldiers fighting in Afghanistan alongside Canadians ensured they ended up being presented medals at the White House. If we do go down the road of pop culture, lets include the recent movie "In Bruges"'s depiction of the widely held view in many cultural forums that Americans are ignorant and crass.

Why are you taking this seriously?—One anonymous idiot made an idiotic comment. -Rrius (talk) 02:54, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

sub-CANADA

Canada is north of the usa

Your point? Kyle1278 (talk) 21:09, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Canada is in fact north of every country except Denmark. We should chip that piece of Greenland off, or build an island to settle things once and for all. :) Franamax (talk) 21:49, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

The latter point is why the North Pole may belong to the Danish, see North Pole may belong to Denmark, early mapping data suggests: scientist (CBC News). --Natural R_X 02:02, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

What's going on?

Have I missed something lately? The PQ haven't won the last elections and I thought Quebec's liberals were against sovereignty, are they still? I've heard people this weekend saying Quebec's government is to declare its independence from Canada soon. Should we talk about that in this article? --Shalloom (talk) 00:31, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

I haven't found any news articles supporting what you say so i can not be sure. Kyle1278 (talk) 00:49, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

We should write articles on the basis of verifable sources, not on the basis of what you hear people saying. Not everyone knows what they are talking about. The people you are listening to clearly do not. Ground Zero | t 02:52, 15 March 2009 (UTC) I wouldn't say they clearly do not know what they are talking about because this might be true without us knowing it. They could've get privileged information. But I agree with you on adding information from verifiable sources only. --Shalloom (talk) 14:09, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Political Party

Does anyone else believe that the political party of Stephen Harper (Conservative) should be stated on the right side of the Canada page? I saw many other country profiles on wikipedia that state the political party of their Presidents and Prime Ministers... should the Canada page do this too? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.241.75.103 (talk) 03:11, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Redirect 'Canadian' to 'Culture of Canada' instead of 'Canada'

'Canadian' is redirecting to 'Canada' article and allthough there is the complete history and culture of the Canadian society to be found at numurous locations, internet, libraries and even the government of canada's heritage website http://www.pch.gc.ca/index-eng.cfm 'Canadian' should at least be redirected to 'Culture of Canada' not this article, as when we say "Canadian" we are talking about heritage and culture not demographics. Therefore 'Canadian' should not direct to 'Canada' article.

Also, 'Canadian' is not a disambiguation, and deserves it's own article and not just a redirect. (I.E. Canadians are Ex-Americans)

So I say we redirect 'Canadian' to 'Culture of Canada' instead of 'Canada'.

American(Can) (talk) 05:51, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure what "Canadians are Ex-Americans" means. As to the rest, I don't think there is any more justification to redirect "Canadian" to "Culture of Canada" than there is to redirect it to "Canada". Perhaps what we should do is just eliminate the redirect completely and send it to Canadian (disambiguation), just as we do with other articles such as American, German, Chinese, Russian, etc. - Eron^Talk 06:42, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

I Agree.. It's all or nothing. (I threw in by hypothetical means "Ex-Americans" btw to let you know there is rich heritage and culture behind the word 'Canadian') which the article 'Culture of Canada' can dub as the article 'Canadian' just nicely. The justification of the move is to distinguish the word 'Canadian' as a culture and heritage and not to fall into the hands of demographics.

So, the reason why we shouldn't direct 'Canadian' to 'Canada' is because of the demographics, which does not reliterating the society that is rich in culture and heritage which the 'Culture of Canada' can duplicate itself as the 'Canadian' article.

btw: what is so disambiguous about Canada? Clearly Red and White bud, with no objections. ;)

American(Can) (talk) 14:18, 22 March 2009 (UTC)