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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Amazigh Man (talk | contribs) at 12:13, 30 May 2009 (→‎"Berber World" edit war: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.


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Notice Coming here to ask why I reverted your edit? Read this page first...

Please leave me new messages at the bottom of the page; click here to start a new section at the bottom. I usually notice messages soon. I attempt to keep conversations in one location, as I find it easier to follow them that way when they are archived. If you open a new conversation here, I will respond to you here. Please watchlist this page or check back for my reply. If I have already left a message at your talk page, unless I've requested follow-up here or it is a standard template message, I am watching it. If you leave your reply here, I may respond at your talk page if it seems better for context. If you aren't sure if I'm watching your page, or I'm slow to reply, feel free to approach me here.

Welcome to my talk page! I am an administrator here on Wikipedia. That means I am here to help. It does not mean that I have any special status or something, it just means that I get to push a few extra buttons to help maintain this encyclopedia.

If you need help with something, feel free to ask. Click here to start a new topic.
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You can email me from this link but in the interests of Wiki-transparency, please message me on this page unless there are pressing reasons to do otherwise. Comments which I find to be uncivil, full of vulgarities, flame baiting, or that are are excessively rude may be deleted without response. If I choose not to answer, that's my right, don't keep putting it back. I'll just delete and get annoyed at you.

Raffaeleserafini

User:Raffaeleserafini is back with his radical Venetian/anti-Italian POV campaign... [1], [2], [3],... I reverted him, warned him and am trying to stop his sock User:Bibiki from adding his original research and factually wrong inventions to the article Carabinieri... any help in keeping this vandal at bay would be very much appreciated. thanks, --noclador (talk) 08:25, 21 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

thanks, and User:Raffaeleserafini has been warned 3 times today to stop his attempts to erase Italy/Italian from artists pages, but after the warnings he continued his nutty behaviour: [4], [5], [6]. --noclador (talk) 14:28, 21 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Actually it is harder to argue that infoboxes with "Nationality" fields should not say "Venetian" etc, which is why I reverted him on Tintoretto etc, but not there. There is a certain balance to be maintained. Johnbod (talk) 14:41, 21 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'll take a look at that, thanks. Dougweller (talk) 15:40, 21 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks - "there" meant Giorgione, to be clear. Johnbod (talk) 17:40, 21 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Final warning given. Dougweller (talk) 13:04, 21 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Hello Doug. First off I have nothing to do with User:Raffaeleserafini. Second, my edits are non-POV and factual. Please take a look at the article Carabinieri as well as my talk page and you will see that both my minor edits have direct references to the official Carabinieri site and are also supported by the general information that is already in the article. They are not inventions at all. Please note that noclador, given that he is or was a member of the Italian armed forces, may not necessarily have a neutral point of view regarding such articles. I will be asking third parties to mediate and will continue to seek ways to have my edits accepted. For the time being I think both Noclador and I would appreciate it if you took a closer look at the latest version of my edits that he has reverted and gave us a first neutral un-biased opinion. Many thanks.Bibiki (talk) 23:04, 21 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I see no evidence you two are the same. I think you misunderstand WP:NPOV, have you read it? It applies to articles and the way editors should edit, but not to editors themselves as everyone has a pov. And the two edits combined do seem to be making a point. As for using the official site, you can quote the official site but you can't interpret what it says, which is what you have been doing. I'll take a look at any recent changes. Dougweller (talk) 05:25, 22 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for taking a look at this. I still don't get why the first edit (regarding their resistance record before 1943) is POV, when it is obviously (based on references and rest of accepted page content) completely true, i.e. a fact. I do understand that my second edit (regarding their insignia) needs a better reference and I'm asking: if I was to provide a reference to a page that shows how pre-1943 and post-1943 insignia are the same, would you accept the edit? Bibiki (talk) 13:39, 22 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'd have to see it first. There are occasions when something blindingly obvious isn't considered original research. There are other issues involved, but one step at a time. I suggest this goes on the article talk page now though so other editors who might not know about this can see it and it is recorded there for the future. Dougweller (talk) 14:15, 22 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, I will be starting a discussion on these issues on the Carabinieri's talk page. I have been collecting some further evidence about how the sight of Carabinieri in a uniform and appearance basically unchanged since WWII is offensive to people from certain countries that were occupied by Italians (and Carabinieri) during WWII. Let us know when you have taken a look at my latest edits that were reverted. Cheers.Bibiki (talk) 19:07, 25 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I have added two sections at the end of the Carabinieri talk page in order to stimulate discussion and hopefully bring about editor concensus. Hope you visit us at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Carabinieri Bibiki (talk) 22:01, 25 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

WTGO-LP and WLRY on AfD

All radio stations that have or have had an active license with the FCC are considered notable. This is a standard notablity that is given to all radio stations (AM, FM, and LP) and all television stations (TV, DT, CA, and LP). I would recommend you withdrawn these AfDs are unnecessary. - NeutralHomer • Talk • 18:23, 22 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If it's cut and dried like that, why isn't it in the guidelines? Isn't that what they are for? And why does the essay people point me to suggest that a licence isn't enough, that radio stations "are notable if they broadcast over the air and originate at least a portion of their programming schedule in their own studios."? Dougweller (talk) 19:44, 22 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure what essay you are refering to, but I am refering to the continued precedent that numerous other AfDs have given to this notablity. License = Notablity. - NeutralHomer • Talk • 22:26, 22 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ivanhoe610fa (talk) 14:34, 23 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

My Apologies I sincerly appologize for the misunderstanding and for my harsh words. Forgive me.Ivanhoe610fa (talk) 01:47, 24 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, thanks for being honorable with this. Dougweller (talk) 04:54, 24 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Just for the record, I didn't just apologize to save face in anyway, I really mean it. Can you explain what you meant by "stike through" a comment? Ivanhoe610fa (talk) 15:41, 24 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't think anything else. Put (HTML ...) around the comments you are striking through. One of those radio stations by the way (WLRY?) has a broken link to minutemen.org - what do you think that is? Mark what's his name seems pretty radical also (radical as in extreme). Dougweller (talk) 18:26, 24 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Reply Not sure. However I do know that the views and opinions expressed on the programs of WLRY are not neccesarily the views and opinions of The Full Armor of God Broadcast or The Full Armor of God Ministry. Ivanhoe610fa (talk) 15:20, 25 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Indianwhite

Indianwhite (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is indeed a problem; there is quite a consistent pattern, that I believe amounts to a form of vandalism: persistent introduction of unsourced facts or unrealiable sources (namely in a huge number of "battle" articles), addition of reduntant words (like "men" after a number of troops, or "killed" after a number of casualties, or "Christian" after the identity of a non Muslim beligerant, and, I seem to recall, usage of "Arabs" instead of "men" when refering to Islamic tropps, etc.), non-usage of edit summaries, refusal to communicate, almost immediate removal of talk page warnings (trying to appear with a "clean slate"?), most probably using IPs to avoid 3RR, etc. But I'm at a lost as to what to do - the notice board discussion led nowhere, this doesn't seem a case for AIAV, only you and I seem to think this is a problem... What should one do? The Ogre (talk) 12:36, 23 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I was thinking of asking you. First, only warn when on firm ground, so that does'nt come back and bite. If you have diffs for the business about 'Christian' and 'Arabs', that might be useful. Did you see what he did with Servian Walls and Servian Wall? I was about to ask at EAR what was going on that gave us duplicate articles until I discovered he'd turned the redirect into a copy of the other. Anyway, if you have diffs, let me know. It will be interesting to see what happens next. Dougweller (talk) 12:40, 23 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Just to note some of his edits are constructive. Dougweller (talk) 13:07, 23 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I've noticed.The Ogre (talk) 15:16, 23 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Some diffs:

  • For the "Christian" thing:
  • For the "Arabs" thing (as opposed to "men"?):

Cheers! The Ogre (talk) 15:51, 23 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

He is on a rampage... His last edits are also the "Christian" redundancy. The Ogre (talk) 16:02, 23 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

WP:COIN

Hi Doug, I've noticed that you've added a few posts to the COIN, could I ask if you do in future that you use the correct templates for users:{{userlinks|username}} and article: {{article|article name}}. Cheers Smartse (talk) 14:13, 23 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ouch, I missed that, sorry. Dougweller (talk) 18:29, 23 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

fyi koshvorlon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:KoshVorlon#what.27s_with_all_the_hidden_anti-israel_stuff_on_your_user_page.3F

click here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:KoshVorlon&action=edit

then check out the blatant hatred that he admits will probably get removed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:No_Israel.svg

wow! so is this why he loves barbara so much?

XKV8R (talk) 17:01, 25 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Who knows? Anyway, I've started a discussion on the talk page. Dougweller (talk) 19:58, 25 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Doug, the note on ANI is innapropriate. You should know that. You could have dropped a note on my page and asked about it.

Your answer is simple. First, you're correct. I AM using Lupin's tools. When I reverted the Dead Sea Scrolls, the edit I reverted had a link to a blogsite, which is not allowed. Regarding QuackGuru, yes, I and another use have been cleaning up his edits where he's describing Jim Wales as the "Co-founder" of wikipedia. The particular edit of Quack Guru you made mention of had a sultan with a rather odd nickname of "The Lame". (That's how it came up in Lupin's Tools). Let's not create more drama, I'm cleaning up vandalism, that's all. I have no agenda in the Dead Sea Scrolls page at all. In fact, the edit you refered to was the only edit I've had in there. In the future, if you have a problem with any of my edits, talk to me first before jumping to the ANI board. (I don't bite, you know ).
...By the way, I'll be the first to admitt I've made a few mistakes with these tools as I tend to speed read. In fact, look at my contributions and you'll see where I accidentally reverted someone's post on a talk page and it right back with an edit summary showing that it was a mistake.
Again, please talk to me first, and AGF.
Naluboutes, Nalubotes Aeria gloris, Aeria gloris 22:04, 25 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
ps: who the heck's Barbara ?

The edit of mine you reverted without an edit summary - making it look as though you considered it vandalism, was about a link to Barbara Thiering's website. Why did I go to ANI? Because you didn't seem to accept that you were doing anything wrong, and the ANI discussion bears me out. You still don't seem to have said on ANI what you are going to do to stop this. I didn't want this to be a one on one discussion, as it would have been if I'd stayed on your talkpage. You are obviously a good vandal fighter but you aren't taking enough care, and I felt that other opinions were needed. I speed read also and know how easy it is to make mistakes, so I try to spend more time if there is any doubt at all. You mention QuackGuru's edits -- I would have put in an edit summary so that others understood what I was doing. The other thing I do, and I'm not sure you are doing it, is check the recent history to make sure I'm not restoring or going back to other vandalism. Dougweller (talk) 05:23, 26 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I also check the vandal's edit summary to see if there is other vandalism still not removed or if they are on a spree. If there is quite a bit and no shared IP template I check to see if there should be one. A surprising number of schools are not identified as such. Dougweller (talk) 05:41, 26 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
....and pray tell how did you assess that I was doing nothing wrong prior to actually talking to me ? Talking to me is the first step in dispute resolution, per WP:DR. Listen, I'm not looking to create more drama. Heck, if anything I need to be as drama free as possible if for no other reason than to clean up my reputation here (My reputation here is shit, and I take responsibility for that). That's primarily why I focus on reverting vandalism (I do use Lupin's tools). I can keep my trap shut and do something useful over here! Just a note about the edit summaries. In Lupin's tools, when vandalism is reverted, you have about 2 second where you could enter something. That's not enough time to enter anything in. Besides, I stick to obvious vandalism.

Yes, I make a mistake or two, and when I see it, I correct it ASAP. Sometimes, I don't catch my mistakes. That's all this was, a mistake. Please, talk to me first before going to ANI, it's proper dispute resolution.
Naluboutes, Nalubotes Aeria gloris, Aeria gloris 15:46, 26 May 2009 (UTC) [reply]

The discussion I saw between you and Acalamari ‎ suggested that you would not be responsive. DR is not the place to discuss rollback rights, and it certainly looked to me and others as though you had rollback. And finally, the ANI discussion [7] did not, to my mind, have a satisfactory conclusion. I don't see anything here or there to suggest you will be doing anything that will make it less likely for you to make these mistakes. Maybe you should change from Lupin's tools. Dougweller (talk) 05:31, 27 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Doug, I'm dissapointed, DR is mandatory: PER DR [p]
This page documents an official English Wikipedia policy, a widely accepted standard that should normally be followed by all editors. Any edit to it should reflect consensus. Consider discussing potential changes on the talk page first.

[p] It's not a decision call whether to follow it or not. That and I actually don't have rollback. I use Lupin's tools. The "discussion " was FPAS trying to take my head off for a simple edit in good faith, him accusing me of trolling. Yeah, I don't blame you for not being satisfied with that discussion. Bottom line here is you didn't follow proper DR. It's mandatory, not a judgement call. Next time, do us both a favor and follow proper DR. This incident should never have gotten to the incident board.
Naluboutes, Nalubotes Aeria gloris, Aeria gloris 12:27, 27 May 2009 (UTC) [reply]

No, besides FPAS at least 4 other editors were not happy with your actions. The suggestion it was just FPAS is wrong. And you are the only one that seems to think I should have gone to DR instead. I've made several constructive suggestions that would improve, I think, your vandal fighting. I believe my suggestion that you might change from using Lupin's tools shows that I now know you are not using rollback. Dougweller (talk) 12:38, 27 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

pov editing of Indus script entry

dab (Dbachmann) has continued his pov editing in the Indus script entry. For an example, please see my post at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Indus_script

I am a new user but have been using wikipedia for years. The kind of biased pov editing by Dbachmann has no place in wikipedia. Avrosenfeld (talk) 00:41, 27 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Avrosenfeld (talk · contribs) is obviously a throwaway sock. I have no idea why people even bother with such stunts. --dab (𒁳) 09:17, 27 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Futile, but they won't give up. Dougweller (talk) 10:08, 27 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Encyclopedia Edit

Oh come on Encyclopedia edits are so boring as long as its a true unbiased fact being stated from a neutral POV, who cares? I'm just putting some sugar on the whole wheat muffin. :D I found a more reliable source: http://www.mountlebanon.org/historyoflebanon.html The Islamic Conquests -- 635 AD Read the second paragraph.

Please reply and tell me if this is good enough. :) TY —Preceding unsigned comment added by Joetoril (talk • contribs) 18:19, 27 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Nope, it's just a church's site. Have you read WP:RDS? We really need academic sources - books or articles -- for this. Dougweller (talk) 18:22, 27 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Are you watching...

Are you watching User:Drnhawkins/Sandbox/Joseph and Imhotep are the same person? I'm wondering if an MfD is in order, or do we just wait for him to move it to mainspace and then take it to AfD? He clearly does not get the idea of WP:OR. LadyofShalott 19:36, 27 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Time to ask him what he plans to do with it? Dougweller (talk) 20:39, 27 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Carabinieri

fresh attempts by User:Bibiki to further his POV-agenda at Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases and Wikipedia:Third opinion... --noclador (talk) 14:24, 28 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, so far he seems to be behaving properly though. Dougweller (talk) 05:14, 29 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ransom Everglades

Believe it or not, Alex Fumero - Actor and writer, proud star of the toners and proponent of reggeton is a real person. I checked it out. See: http://www.miamiherald.com/entertainment/people/story/1066978.html GroveGuy (talk) 06:06, 29 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well done. I keep meaning to ring you. Dougweller (talk) 14:11, 29 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'll undo your revert. GroveGuy (talk) 17:20, 29 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Exposition

The current article exposition- literary technique has me baffled. It was first brought to my attention by my son after school. His teacher had advised the class that the wikipedia entry was a good example of why wikipedia should never be relied on as a reference. I Googled Exposition and as a text technique the description I used to replace the highly inaccurate and basically simply wrong info in the current article was a genuine attempt to provide useful start for an authoritve artice and enhance wikipedias reputation. If in your wisdom you decide to keep the current misinformation then I can only agree with educators that wikipedia entires should be treated as unreliable.

A point of view is argued in an exposition. Expositions can be in the form of an essay or a letter to the editor. An exposition begins with a thesis. There is a statement of position and a preview of the arguments. Each argument to support your point of view is outlined. The thesis is reinforced in the final paragraph, the reiteration. http://www.lmpc.edu.au/resources/Science/research_projects/text_types/5_exposition.html

and here ... http://sacsnet.sacs.nsw.edu.au/library/Texttypes/ttexposition.htm

theres many more but i find none supporting the wikipedia entry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.168.80.168 (talk) 06:20, 29 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The answer is to improve the article. What you did was remove all the text and that is not acceptable. Not only that, but your sources are simply not good enough and have too limited an explanation- a school's website and some sort of assignment. This requires academic references. Look at Modes of discourse: the local structure of texts by Carlota S. Smith who writes on p. 40 "Bain and Genung distinguished four forms of discourse: Argumentation, Exposition, Description, Narration." [8] or similar sources - do a Google books search on these words: exposition mode of discourse. Use academic references to improve the article if you want to improve it. If you do this seriously I hope you will reconsider your statement above. I'm sorry that your son's teacher has a limited view of exposition as a literary technique. Dougweller (talk) 07:21, 29 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest that your response is unreasonable. Its quite clear, if YOU take the time to do research, that the information in the wikipedia article is at a minimum misleading. Its not about my sons teacher or someones assignment, its the fact that the article is verifiable nonsense. Its not up to me to do your work as an administrator and should you desire to bring wikipedia into disrepute thats your choice. I again suggest you Google Exposition and notice that wikipedia is almost alone in its representation of the subject. You can of course have the last word. I was attempting to help prevent misinformation but if you believe the article thats fine but informed educators will be saying otherwise. I'm happy to leave it for now knowing that eventually corrections will be applied by someone who cares more than i do, enough to make the effort to educate you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.168.80.168 (talk) 07:44, 29 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You miss the point entirely. What you were doing in blanking the article (and adding text to a page that is only supposd to be an index of articles) is just not acceptable. It is as much your responsibility as mine to try to improve the article. I've suggested you improve it, it clearly needs improvement which is why it is tagged for improvement. The first sentence in the lead, "Exposition is one of four rhetorical modes of discourse, along with argumentation, description, and narration." is clearly correct, you can find similar statements in almost any book that mentions exposition. Are you disagreeing with it? The rest needs improvement, discussion of the epistemological underpinnings of the distinctions in the lead, citations for everything that is claimed, etc. My work as an Administrator has nothing to do with improving the article, as I've said, you are as responsible for the article as I am, more so I'd say as you are particularly concerned with it while it is only one of probably thousands on my Watch list. Dougweller (talk) 09:20, 29 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Exposition as used in terms of writing up a science project (as in the first cited source above) has nothing to do with exposition as a literary technique. Exposition is the 'exposure' of information and most certainly need not have a point of view. --Fiskeharrison (talk) 13:54, 29 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I hate to disagree with someone's teacher, but their definition was too limited. Dougweller (talk) 14:13, 29 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Timewave zero

I need to know, are we abandoning the merge now? This is getting very confusing. Serendipodous 15:40, 29 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

We have to wait for the AfD to end. I've suggested a merge there. Dougweller (talk) 17:00, 29 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Joseph and Imhotep are the same person

Hi, what are your intentions regarding what you have been developing at User:Drnhawkins/Sandbox/Joseph and Imhotep are the same person? LadyofShalott 03:41, 30 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I plan to submit it for consideration as an article again. I am proofing the references and making a few improvements but it is close to it's final form. --Drnhawkins (talk) 08:30, 30 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You've got to love syllogisms like "If Joseph was Imhotep, then the Bible is vindicated by Egyptian history." --dab (𒁳) 09:44, 30 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"Berber World" edit war

Okay. Could you please say the same thing to the one responsible for wiping out the article and redirecting it to a whole different article ?

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