Talk:Thomas Jefferson

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Native American genocide?

I believe that Jefferson's deep involvement of the genocide of Native Americans should be mentioned in the first paragraph of the article, as a "significant event" which took place during his presidency. He directly ordered the slaughter of tens of thousands of people, had a fervent hatred for "red people", and if this article was about anyone other than a "national icon" I'm sure that such a large scale mass murder would be mentioned in their article ... so it's only fair that we be honest about Thomas Jefferson here, and put the bad stuff in along with all the nationalistic hogwash ...

Sure he wrote a few things about how much he admired them -- like saying that they "died with more deliberation" than any other people he had encountered. And to his credit he did try to give them a chance to abandon their way of life and live like the European invaders. He only ordered his military commanders to kill them and force them west of the Mississipi river if they didn't start wearing suits and working like good white men. So I guess you could say it was the Natives' fault since they didn't do what Thomas Jefferson told them to. He tried, and they just didn't listen ... poor savages.

It should also be pointed out that Jefferson, who is lauded for the principles laid out in the Declaration of Independence ("all men created equal ....", continued to own 5,000 slaves on which his own personal wealth was based. Yeoman farmer - he was definitely not!

Anyhow, Jefferson was definitely more compassionate and fair than, say, Andrew Jackson ... but he was still a cold blooded murderer ... I mean, Ted Bundy only killed a few dozen innocent people and the whole article about him talks about him being a killer. How come Jefferson, who killed thousands of people doesn't even have a sentence talking about it?

EDIT: So somebody wants sources.... a great starting point is Drinnon's "Facing West" (ISBN: 978-0806129280), Miller's "Native America, Discovered and Conquered" (ISBN: 978-0803215986), or just about any book on the history of the American "Indian Removal" campaigns for that matter.

Also the google query "Thomas Jefferson native american policy" will turn up thousands of results with extensive bibliographical resources. This is a well-known historical fact and it's silly to try to avoid discussing my questions above by claiming that they are "unsourced" ...

Cloaked in his rheotoric about how much he "commiserated" with their plight, is a policy of forcing them to choosing between assimilation or extermination.

"The Indians can be kept in order only by commerce or war. The former is the cheapest. Unless we can induce individuals to employ their capital in that trade, it will require an enormous sum of capital from the public treasury, and it will be badly managed. A drawback for four or five years is the cheapest way of getting that business off our hands." --Thomas Jefferson to Albert Gallatin, 1808.

"If they wish to remain on the land which covers the bones of their fathers, [we adjure them] to keep the peace with a people who ask their friendship without needing it, who wish to avoid war without fearing it. In war, they will kill some of us; we shall destroy all of them." --Thomas Jefferson to Henry Dearborn, 1807.

"We must make ever memorable examples of the tribe or tribes which shall have taken up the hatchet." --Thomas Jefferson to Henry Dearborn, 1807.

"In truth, the ultimate point of rest and happiness for [the Indians] is to let our settlements and theirs meet and blend together, to intermix and become one people, incorporating themselves with us as citizens of the U.S. This is what the natural progress of things will of course bring on, and it will be better to promote than retard it. Surely it will be better for them to be identified with us and preserved in the occupation of their lands, than be exposed to the many casualties which may endanger them while a separate people." --Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Hawkins, 1803.

"[To] incorporate with us as citizens of the United States... is certainly the termination of their history most happy for themselves; but in the whole course of this it is essential to cultivate their love. As to their fear, we presume that our strength and their weakness is now so visible that they must see we have only to shut our hand to crush them, and that all our liberalities to them proceed from motives of pure humanity only." --Thomas Jefferson William Henry Harrison, 1803. (*)

"The interested and unprincipled policy of England [in the War of 1812] has defeated all our labors for the salvation of these unfortunate people. They have seduced the greater part of the tribes within our neighborhood, to take up the hatchet against us, and the cruel massacres they have committed on the women and children of our frontiers taken by surprise, will oblige us now to pursue them to extermination, or drive them to new seats beyond our reach." --Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, 1813.

(NOTE: These people who "took up the hatchet" were doing so, by the way, in retaliation for having their homes razed, being pushed hundreds of miles from their lands to make room for settlers, and being raped enslaved and murdered ...)

"We have cut off all possibility of intercourse and of mutual aid, and may pursue at our leisure whatever plan we find necessary to secure ourselves against the future effects of their savage and ruthless warfare. The confirmed brutalization, if not the extermination of this race in our America, is therefore to form an additional chapter in the English history of the same colored man in Asia, and of the brethren of their own color in Ireland, and wherever else Anglo-mercantile cupidity can find a two-penny interest in deluging the earth with human blood." --Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, 1813.

(Quotes are from "Writings of Thomas Jefferson")

How's that for sources? Need more? --- he wrote thousands of "caring" "respectful" comments such as those ...

Let's be realistic here. The man envisioned and implemented a systematic genocide program and was so PROUD of it that he wrote about it hundreds of times in his journals and letters ...kind of like how the Nazis were proud of exterminating Jews and wrote about it openly and proudly ... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jrtayloriv (talk • contribs) 04:37, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Most of these questions completely contradict what you claim. One wonders whether you have actually read his words at all. Paul B (talk) 22:47, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Looks like original research to me. Chronodm (talk) 10:03, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

It is one thing to put up a magnificent statue. It is quite another to keep the pigeons off it.
The way to get past our past and to avoid eternal war is to admit that we have the opportunity to do better. Twang (talk) 18:04, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Sadly Jefferson attitude and policies towards native American peoples created a legacy that lasted until well after the West was closed. His rejection of their cultures, rights and histories created the foundations for the racist rallying call of manifest destiny. Native people who had lived in areas since 'time immemorial' were forced, often at gunpoint, on to lands designated as uninhabitable for Whites. Where native Americans remain today.

Yet I can understand why the Jefferson apologists say that claims he was responsible for genocide are laudable. It's only if you appreciate his legacy and not his direct action (he is regularly ranked as one of the all-time great Presidents) that makes you realise that he had power, and people listened. Jefferson left future politicians with a clear picture of what to do with the 'indian problem'. Sic Reinhard Heydrich planned the Final Solution but was killed before it was barely started. Yet history has decided to name him as one of its masterminds. So although Jefferson had died long before much of the major butchery, isn't he arguably complicit by tacitly endorsing the plan? It's quite clear from some of his surviving letters:

[In a letter to] General Henry Dearborn, he states "if we are constrained to lift the hatchet against any tribe, we will never lay it down until that tribe is exterminated." Later in the letter to Dearborn, Jefferson adds that "[I]n war, they will kill some of us; we will destroy all of them." Anthropology, Native Americans and Jefferson: A Troubling Analysis

Likewise, just compare the number of conflicts that occurred between indigenous people and Whites in United States and Canada up until the 1900s. The difference is staggering, about 20:1; USA:Canada.

The United States took a very hard line towards the 'indians'. The European who settled on their lands and the future generations that they raised live a lie that goes right back to Jefferson.

Much has been said about Obama becoming the first black president. The real moment in history will be when the United States gets it first native American president who's lineage goes back before the first Europeans arrived. Only then will you truly have 'the land of the free'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.155.56.26 (talk) 13:48, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

So I've got dozens of bibliographical sources -- can I write up a (completely sourced and unbiased) section on his "Indian Removal" policies, or will I just be wasting my time? His policies of extermination and removal affected millions of people's lives in a very serious way ... I think it's quite biased and disrespectful to all of the people whose lives he destroyed to pretend like it didn't happen. And after all, this is supposed to be an objective encyclopedia, not a nationalistic historical monument ... Jrtayloriv (talk) 14:27, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

well I went ahead and wrote it up in a new section titled "Native American policy", and am currently working on gathering more references to further support the ones that I've already got in the new section. comments? suggestions? Jrtayloriv (talk) 22:58, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

In the text it says that he believed or encouraged the forceful removal of Indians. These things are a complete view point of the writer and not that of Thomas Jefferson. The following statement is from Jefferson's lips and as such it would be wise to quit interpreting things as we see them but just take as is how he stated them himself.

"I am of opinion that the Indians have a right to the occupation of their lands, independent of the states within whose chartered lines they happen to be; that until they cede them by treaty or other transaction equivalent to a treaty, no act of a state can give a right to such lands; that neither under the present Constitution, nor the ancient confederation, had any state or person a right to treat with the Indians without the consent of the general governmnet; that the government is determined to exert all its energy for the patronage and protection of the rights of the Indians, and the preservation of peace between the United States and them; and that if any settlements are made on lands not ceded by them, without previous consent of the United States, the government will think itself bound, not only to declare to the Indians that such settlements are without the authority or protection of the United States, but to remove them also by public force. " (TJ to General Henry Knox (10 Aug. 1791), Bergh 8:226-27)

"Our system is to live in perpetual peace with the Indians [and] to cultivate an affectionate attachment from them by everything just and liberal which we can do for them within the bounds of reason, and by giving them effectual protection against wrongs from our own people." (TJ to General Andrew Jackson (16 Feb. 1803), Bergh 10:359.)

"Nothing ought more to be avoided than the embarking ourselves in a system of military coercion on the Indians. If we do this, we shall have general and perpetual war." (TJ to Governor Meriwether Lewis (21 Aug. 1808), Bergh 12:142.)

He agreed only on the 'peaceful removal of the indians through negotiation of treaties. If they chose not to go, they were not forced. (The Real Thomas Jefferson, pg.253)

As for the desire to take away their culture, agriculture, etc. He wanted to help them so he took steps to provide them with instruction in "agriculture and the domestic arts," We aren't upset when the Indians taught us things, why can't we try to help them with certain things? He never forced our culture or England's culture on them. (The Real Thomas Jefferson, pg 253)

His sentiments towards the native Americans was described in his second Inaugural Address. " The aboriginal inhabitants of these countries I have regarded with the commiseration their history inspires. Endowed with the faculties and the rights of men, breathing an ardent love of liberty and independence, and occupying a country which left them no desire but to be undisturbed, the stream of overflowing population from other regions directed itself on these shores. Without power to divert or habits to contend against, they have been overwhelmed by the current or driven before it. Now reduced within limits too narrow for the hunter state, humanity enjoins us to teach them agriculture and the domestic arts, to encourage them to that industry which alone can enable them to maintain their place in existence and to prepare them, in time, for that state of society which to bodily comforts adds the improvement of the mind and morals. We have, therefore, liberally furnished them with the implements of husbandry and household use; we have placed among them instructors in the arts of first necessity; and they are covered with the aegis of the law against aggressors from among ourselves. " (second inaugural address (4 Mar. 1805), 3:378-79)

Important for the reader to understand that these are the Indians that wanted it. Thomas Jefferson never forced this on them. They wanted to learn from us as we had learned from them so many times. There is nothing wrong with two cultures helping each other out. We should not interpret that as one is undermining the other or trying to destroy the other.

This view should be stated because it is shared by the majority of the general Jefferson historians. Please add to these comments so as to cover all 'opinions' of history. It is said that God cannot change history but historians can. I feel this topic has fallen more to the opinions of historians than the words or facts of Thomas Jefferson. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.32.205.96 (talk) 04:42, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

http://etext.virginia.edu/jefferson/quotations/jeff1300.htm ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This whole wikipedia article's section is based on the hack work of some historian that should be ashamed of themselves. Thomas Jefferson was the only President to have real peace during his presidency. There where no Indian wars or massacres. Timeline of United States military operations —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.77.229.128 (talk) 00:05, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

principle author of the Consitution?

Both articles for Thomas Jefferson AND James Madison say that they were each the "principle author of the Constituion". Which is correct? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.198.104.133 (talk) 21:56, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Madison. Jefferson had nothing to do with it, but he was the main author of the Declaration of Independence, so somebody probably got them mixed up. I will fix this. Richard75 (talk) 22:04, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Jefferson was in Paris during the convention, but he was involved with his correspondence with Madison. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.77.229.128 (talk) 23:54, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

"Relationship" with Hemings

Re: this passage: "...Jefferson had a long-term relationship and children with his slave Sally Hemings." This article uses the word "relationship," as though it were consensual. There is by definition no such thing as "consensual" sex between a slave owner and a slave. I would argue that Hemings was raped. Really, "rape" is the only possible word that one can use in this context. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.86.120.41 (talk) 07:56, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

It would be good to have at least a discussion about this in the main article. I agree with you about using the term relationship. How can a slave owner have a relationship with a slave that does not have any rights or protection under the Virginia Laws? I would propose using that relationship should be changed to either "rape", "adultery", and or "inappropriate sexual conduct with a female slave." Cmguy777 (talk) 00:10, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

If you'd like a 'discussion' on this one, I'd look for some solid citations. I accept the emotional context, and can't speak to personal positions, but historical literature and texts frequently and consistently detail fully consensual relationships in this context. A blanket application of the word "rape" simply because of one's interpretation of the context is inappropriate. Not saying it can't be addressed, but need to refrain from emotional interpretation and not insert personal opinion nor "original research". - Thaimoss (talk) 14:22, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Re: Citation needed for the reference to DNA proof linking Hemmings children to Jefferson. There is no conclusive evidence to support this claim. The DNA has only proved that "A Jefferson" fathered Easton Hemmings. This Jefferson could very possibly have been Randolph. It is false to declare any DNA conclusion as fact as it is a widely contested issue among historians. http://www.monticello.org/plantation/hemingscontro/hemings-jefferson_contro.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.10.20.94 (talk) 05:19, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

I have modified the wording to reflect the fact cited by the last discussion point here. I have also brought in a citation from the Sally Hemings article. - Thaimoss (talk) 14:22, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Thomas Jefferson and slavery

Is there a way to have a seperate page about Thomas Jefferson and Slavery. It seems that everything about Thomas Jefferson is on one page. How can you start a new page just devoted to Thomas Jefferson And Slavery? Cmguy777 (talk) 00:10, 28 June 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cmguy777 (talk • contribs) 17:52, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Starting an article for general guidelines. The title should be Thomas Jefferson and slavery with a lower case "s" per WP:CAPS. Good luck! Station1 (talk) 00:07, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Jefferson really is the last link between the Founding Fathers and the Civil War period. I believe it is vitally important to have a separate page just devoted to slavery. Cmguy777 (talk) 00:28, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I am trying to harmonize Thomas Jefferson and slavery article with the main Thomas Jefferson article. I put in a paragraph telling what the Thomas Jefferson and slavery article is about. I also put a link with the main article Thomas Jefferson. How else can the slavery section be harmonized? The Thomas Jefferson and slavery article goes into depth about slavery and there is an updated section about Sally Hemings. Any ideas? {Cmguy777 (talk) 00:40, 17 July 2009 (UTC)}

Cmguy777, unfortunately I removed the paragraph you added. The idea is not for this article to simply talk about the Thomas Jefferson and slavery article. The idea, among other things, is to make sure that the content from the slavery section in this article doesn't contradict or conflict with the Thomas Jefferson and slavery article. See this guideline for more info. -shirulashem^(talk) 00:36, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes. I am in total agreement. I am currently going through both sections. I put Thomas Jefferson and slavery as the main article because the other article is more detailed in account. I do not want anything to conflict. If you can find any conflicting areas please let me know. {Cmguy777 (talk) 06:46, 30 July 2009 (UTC)}

I have incorporated the On Slavery section with Thomas Jefferson and slavery. I believe that the two subject areas are harmonized and the Harmony cite should be removed. {Cmguy777 (talk) 19:11, 20 August 2009 (UTC)}

I have removed the Harmonize cite because the Thomas Jefferson and slavery has been harmonized with the On Slavery section. All of the main points in the On Slavery section have been incorporated into Thomas Jefferson and slavery. {Cmguy777 (talk) 16:44, 21 August 2009 (UTC)}

Jefferson represented Virginia in the Confederation Congress from 1783 to 1785. There, in 1784, he drafted the first of the Northwest Ordinances. His draft would have outlawed slavery in the new northwestern states. Congress passed the Ordinance but rejected that clause by a 7-6 vote. However, the later Northwest Ordinance of 1787, which was based on the 1784 ordinance, did approve Jefferson's suggestion and outlawed slavery north of the Ohio River. (And that provision became a key factor in the controversy between "free" and "slave" states over the next 73 years.)

Religious views

{{editsemiprotected}} In the religious views page, the article states as a certainty what Jefferson's dieing words were.

This is not known, as shown on the following pages:

http://wiki.monticello.org/mediawiki/index.php/Jefferson%27s_Last_Words http://www.corsinet.com/braincandy/dying.html http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_were_Thomas_Jefferson%27s_last_words http://www.famousquotes.me.uk/famous-last-words/41-famous%20last%20words.htm

Most sources claim his final words to be, "Is it the Fourth?", referring to Independence Day. Very few sources claim that they are what the page says now.

---

Please change: His last words were, "I resign myself to my God, and my child to my country."[69]

to: His last words cannot be known for sure, most sources show them to be, "Is it the Fourth?", referring to Independence Day.

Use http://wiki.monticello.org/mediawiki/index.php/Jefferson%27s_Last_Words as the source.

 Not done: Welcome and thanks for wanting to improve this article. The source for the current text seems reliable and the book referenced by that source is accessible on Amazon and does make that claim. Your monticello.org source also seems reliable, but the other three do not. Is there some other way to include the text you'd like to add, without removing the existing text? Celestra (talk) 20:00, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Re: Sure, but if you include the text I desire, the original text is contradictory. The original claims that those WERE his last words, then the addition would go on to say that it cannot be known for certain. Perhaps something like this would be better:

His last words cannot be known for sure, some sources claim: "Is it the Fourth?", referring to Independence Day, while other sources claim: "I resign myself to my God, and my child to my country."[69] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.82.128.32 (talk) 14:09, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

How about: Jefferson's last words are commonly claimed to be "Is it the Fourth?",<your ref> but other sources claim [existing words]" That might fit better in a religious views section. Celestra (talk) 14:55, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Sure, that sounds good.Buckk Dich (talk) 19:57, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

 Done Celestra (talk) 13:38, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

---

Please change: referring to himself in private letters as a "Christian" (1803), to: referring to himself in private letters as a "Christian" (1803, 1816),

and add the following to footnote 91: Letter to Charles Thomson, Jan. 9, 1816, "I, too, have made a wee-little book from the same materials, which I call the Philosophy of Jesus; it is a paradigma of his doctrines, made by cutting the texts out of the book, and arranging them on the pages of a blank book, in a certain order of time or subject. A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselves Christians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man, of which the great reformer of the vicious ethics and deism of the Jews, were he to return on earth, would not recognize one feature.”

WIkiref

{{Wikiref}} is used in several places in this article, but it serves no purpose. The link it creates leads nowhere. It should be removed. You could either (1) just use plain text, with no link, or (2) use a common citation template (such as {{cite book}} and create the link with a {{Harvnb}}. The offending footnotes are 38, 41, 43, 66, 97, 113 and maybe others ---- CharlesGillingham (talk) 05:45, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Propose separate article on the "Jefferson’s children by his slave Sally Hemings" section

The content of this section is relevant, and detailed. While much of it is covered in the related articles, the aggregation is unique and useful, and certainly applicable in the perspective of being 'about Jefferson'. However, the length and degree of detail of this section is inconsistent with the remainder of the Jefferson article. It is nearly the longest standing section in this article.

* I recommend creating a separate article to contain these details.

* I suggest naming it "Jefferson’s children by Sally Hemings"

* I suggest keeping the introductory paragraph, and then summarizing the three study periods (1998, 2000, 2001) into a sentence each. The issue would the approximate the first paragraph in this same section on Jefferson's children with his wife Martha. - Thaimoss (talk) 14:29, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

I agree with this recommendation. "Jefferson's children by Sally Hemmings" could be a separate page or shown in the Sally Hemings article, if not already done so. {Cmguy777 (talk) 20:11, 29 August 2009 (UTC)}

Monticello

I added a section on Monticello that could be expanded. It is important to know how important Monticello was to Jefferson and how Monticello was a slave plantation all the time that Jefferson owned the property. I believe it is important to show that Jefferson was both a slave owner and an abolitionist in the article. Those facts seem contradictive, but it is important in understanding who Thomas Jefferson was. {Cmguy777 (talk) 20:11, 29 August 2009 (UTC)}

GA Reassessment

This discussion is transcluded from Talk:Thomas Jefferson/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the reassessment.

Notified: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Virginia, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Architecture, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Politics, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Philosophy, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Libertarianism, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject United States presidential elections, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject U.S. Presidents, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject International relations, JW1805 (talk · contribs), Rjensen (talk · contribs), JimWae (talk · contribs), Deeceevoice (talk · contribs), AuburnPilot (talk · contribs), Hihkite (talk · contribs), Parkwells (talk · contribs), Cmguy777 (talk · contribs), Skywriter (talk · contribs)--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 20:48, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Delisted--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 15:45, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Let me say that I recognize that this is one of the 200 most important biographies and one of the 201 core biographies on English Wikipedia although it is not a 120 vital biographies. I am hoping not to have to delist this because of lack of interested editors.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 06:17, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

I am reviewing this article as part of GA Sweeps. This article needs much work to bring it to the current standards of WP:WIAGA. I am about to outline a partial list of issues that need to be addressed. After I post this listing, I will give concerned and interested editors a week before I reevaluate the article's quality rating. I will be following along with the progress of the article and may make additional comments as it is appropriate.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 20:13, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

• The images could use WP:ALT text according to the alt text checker.
• Three dablinks need to be fixed.
• The article has a deadlink
• There are several entire paragraphs without any inline citations. In some cases, groups of paragraphs composing entire subsections have no citations. This will not pass the current standards at WP:WIAGA. Please make sure each paragraph has at least one citation assuming that the article is organized enough that separate paragraphs constitute separate ideas and need individual citations.
• It seems to me that the following images are sculptural and may need FURs: File:Jefferson Memorial with Declaration preamble.jpg, File:Thomas Jefferson's Paris house memorial.jpg, File:MtRushmore Tom close.jpg.
• The article has contained a {{Expand-section}} tag since March.
• There is a bulletpointed list that should probably be converted to prose.
• I may make further comments as this review progresses.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 20:30, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

I believe the Article needs structure. The first section should be just Jefferson's biography, from his birth to death with time line periods. Any subject areas such as Slavery, Sally Hemings, or Presidency should be seperate from the main biography. Also, links should be made to main Articles, if not already done so. {Cmguy777 (talk) 17:43, 4 September 2009 (UTC)}

In the biography section there is no mention of slaves being owned by Jefferson or his Plantation life on Monticello. Slavery was much a part of Jefferson's life as the Declaration of Independance. I believe this topic should be addressed in one or two paragraphs.{Cmguy777 (talk) 00:04, 28 August 2009 (UTC)}

I do not generally guide a reorganization of an article during a GAR review. It is not required to pass. However, it is not uncommon for a group of editors who are similarly interested in improving an article while it has their simultaneous attention to do such an overhaul. I would be very happy to see expansion of the text. I personally feel that Jefferson is an important enough figure that his WP:LEAD should use the entire four paragraphs that are acceptable, but three is not so deficient that it would cause a problem with retaining the rating.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 04:57, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

There is tremendous ongoing editorial activity occurring on the article, but it seems to be just regular editing and nothig tailored to address the concerns above. Since these concerns have been ignored for a week, I am delisting the article.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 15:45, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Post-GA cleanup

Here's the worklist. Let's mark as we go.

• The images could use WP:ALT text according to the alt text checker. Partly fixed in 311724155 and 311826987, as well as in multiple enclosed templates. Cannot fix in gallery or expand-section template.
• Three dablinks need to be fixed. Fixed in 311829047, 311829467, 311829541, 311829707, and 311829813.
• The article has a deadlink Not really a deadlink--the link checker flags it but it's just a redirect. Fixed in 311830706.
• There are several entire paragraphs without any inline citations. In some cases, groups of paragraphs composing entire subsections have no citations. This will not pass the current standards at WP:WIAGA. Please make sure each paragraph has at least one citation assuming that the article is organized enough that separate paragraphs constitute separate ideas and need individual citations.
• It seems to me that the following images are sculptural and may need FURs: File:Jefferson Memorial with Declaration preamble.jpg, File:Thomas Jefferson's Paris house memorial.jpg, File:MtRushmore Tom close.jpg.
• The article has contained a Expand-section tag since March.
• There is a bulletpointed list that should probably be converted to prose. Fixed in 311834654.

-Tjarrett (talk) 12:31, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

I've addressed the easy cleanup. Remaining are the paragraphs without citations; FURs for sculptural images; and the problematic Native American Policy section. -Tjarrett (talk) 14:06, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

• {{Wikiref}} creates links that don't lead anywhere. These should probably be removed, and replaced with just plain text. (If the article used citation templates, you could use {{Harv}} or {{sfn}} to achieve the desired effect.) ---- CharlesGillingham (talk) 00:50, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

First Patent Examiner

Thomas Jefferson had an important role in shaping U.S. patent policy. Although he initially opposed patents on moral grounds, (and possibly Constitutional grounds) he later came to embrace them, impressed by the power of patents to spur innovation. Some mention of Jefferon's role in the history of the U.S. Patent system warrants mention, I think. Here is an interesting page covering the topic. Lenehey (talk) 17:51, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Role in Drafting the Declaration

I think it would be appropriate, in the discussion of his work on the Declaration of Independence, to note the influence of Virginia Declaration of Rights http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Declaration_of_Rights drafted by George Mason. The most influential language was stylistically changed by Jefferson, but clearly paraphrased the Virginia Declaration of Rights, and restated Locke. 72.35.126.61 (talk) 21:40, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

This is already noted. Did you read the article? faithless (^speak) 01:25, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Death?

I noticed under the section on his death, there is no comments on how he actually died... Livingston 07:22, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Spelling mistakes

There are several "its" and "it's" spelling mistakes, especially in the "corporations" section. All the "it's" should be "its".

201.208.3.112 (talk) 04:00, 1 November 2009 (UTC)