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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 98.176.116.13 (talk) at 00:56, 2 July 2010. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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2004 post

I have tried to smooth this article out, but it seems as if it is highly POV. The list of motorcycle gangs that have contributed to the California stereotype can probably be whittled down to about five or seven. The majority of the article stands out as an explanantion for their "outlaw" stigma. The paragraph that begins, "Cities are filled with gangs and the criminal subculture so it is not as easy as you might think for a club to survive." doesn't really seem to explain why that makes it hard for a club to survive. The sentence that says, "The Pagan's MC is a motorcycle club first and foremost and as such mirrors the values of the society in which it lives." raises a question also. Which society is being referred to; a mainstream society, subculture, or even a counter-culture? Lastly, if this club is not as responsible for its stigma as we may think then it looks bad when you try to explain it all away. Focus less on the explanations and more on your day-to-day activities as a club. Tell us of the cause(s) you may be aligned with or how it is that you actually do go about achieving the American dream. Don't tell us how we think you go about achieving the American dream. Hmm, that is all I have for now, good luck! Jaberwocky6669 04:34, Dec 11, 2004 (UTC)

The stigma may be at least partially founded.

I'm not really a biker, but I do have a Yamaha Vino. Yeah, I know, it's a dinky scooter. Anyway, the Local 16th, which is how the Pagans here in Roanoke Virginia refer to theirselves, (P for Pagan, and P is the 16th letter of the alphabet) tend to be fairly friendly toward me. They don't see my vino as being any less of a bike. I often get affectionate nods from them for riding it around everywhere. At any rate, one day, I stop by one of the bars they frequent to shoot a game of pool. A few of them were talking about having just gotten out of prison for going up to New York City and picking fights with the Hells Angels. Wether they were just blowing smoke or not, I don't know. But at least some members of the Pagans that I am aquainted with are at least deserving of the outlaw stigma. Perhaps not all. It's really a matter of guilt by association. - 09:09, 27 April, 2006 (UTC)

Gang vs. Club

I reverted the change in category from Motorcycle Club to Motorcycle Gang. The Pagans are, in fact, a motorcycle club. The term motorcycle gang has no concensus definition. Mmoyer 02:35, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Recent rework

I removed much unsourced material as follows:

  • Info re Massie's: I could not find any such name affiliated with the Pagans
  • Quote from Sandy Dobkin: No source
  • History info about development timeline: No source

Here is Ms. Dobkins quote:

The Pagan Motorcycle Club was originally formed as an AMA racing team and custom show bike club by Lou Dobkin in 1963. Born 1/7/1941 in Washington D.C. and after serving as a medic in the U. S. Navy, Lou continued his education as a biochemical technician at NIH in Bethesda, Maryland, until his death in 1989. Two of many articles written about his passion for travel & custom bikes - both Triumph and Harley Davidson's - were published in the November, 1972 Custom Chopper magazine.

Wikipedia isn't about what's true, just about what's verifiable. Mmoyer 18:24, 12 August 2007 (UTC) THIS IS SANDI "DOBKIN" AGAIN....I HAVE VERIFIED INFORMATION I PREVIOUSLY SUBMITTED AS TO CLUB ORIGINS. WITH MARRIAGE LICENS - DEATH CERTIFICATE - CORRECT NAME FOR LOU - HIS NAVY RECORDS - AND PICTURES....WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO SEND COPPIES FOR PROOF TO WIKIPEDIA? I HAVE EVEN VERIFIED WITH CLUB MEMBERS THIS INFORMATION. THEY AT LEAST APPRECIATE THE TRUTH! AND SOME OF THE ORIGIONAL CLUB IS STILL ALIVE TO VERIFY MY STATEMENTS. START BY SPELLING LOUS NAME CORRECTLY IT IS 'D O B K I N' NOT DOBKIN 'S'... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.53.45.244 (talk) 18:03, 10 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Pagan's Motorcycle Club

My Dad Lil'Joe was sponsor by Lou Dobkins the most intelligent one percenter biker to ever live. I have a picture of Lou Dobkins holding a .38 in his right hand a fighting knife in the other. My dad was a Pagan in the 60's and 70's. The Pagan's were rumored to inventors of the drug P.C.P which was called high test green which turned the small club into one of the big four clubs like the Bandidos, Outlaws, and Hells Angels. The Pagan's are still the strongest brotherhood on the EastCoast even though the F.B.I. and rival clubs try to damage the good name of the Pagan's are even trying to buy member's out. Most Pagan's are ex-military and service men. For example the Great Derek J. Hale who was murdered in cold blood by the Delaware State Police, Derek J. Hale was a Marine that served his country proud like alot of other Pagan's did. If society wont honor and embrace our troops the Pagan's M.C. will. If society wont embrace the poor and needy children of America the Pagan's M.C. will. The Pagan's started out with 13 intelligent brave members in the 50's and 60's in Maryland. The Pagan M.C. should be loved and respected by all people who reside on the EastCoast as they have only did the same for citizens of the EastCoast. Pagan's never die only multiply.--24.35.83.148 (talk) 16:04, 9 May 2008 (UTC)Joe Clark[reply]

This is more legend than reality

This article is more legend than fact. It is troubling that the legend is more verifiable than the reality. I am working on the real history and I am happy to get the real story from original members. (links redacted) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.79.171.174 (talk) 02:38, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is based around reliable sources; feel free to contribute here with good citations

Allies

I removed Outlaws MC as an ally. The Pagans and Outlaws are not really allies, at the least they might have an on/off relationship. They have been fighting each other in Pennsylvania for some time now. I think the only thing that they do share is a mutual hatred for the Hells Angels. The citation for the Outlaws MC as allies links to a story about the Mongols allying with the Pagans, not the Outlaws allying with the Pagans.98.176.116.13 (talk) 00:48, 2 July 2010 (UTC). tedder (talk) 02:48, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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