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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by AlexJohnTorres12 (talk | contribs) at 17:17, 11 August 2010 (→‎Steven Slater). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Steven Slater

Steven Slater (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • AfD statistics)
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Though the article contains references, it is a classic case of WP:BLP1E and I therefore propose that it be deleted. Favonian (talk) 09:52, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Explanation for new folks: "WP:BLP1E" is a shorthand link to guidance on "Subjects notable only for one event" in our Biographies of living persons policy --A. B. (talk • contribs) 17:16, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I added the appropriate merge tags on Steven Slater and Flight attendant. patsw (talk) 13:39, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I tried to speedy this, there seems to be fairly clear concensus to delete, can we get an early close? GainLine ♠ ♥ 14:20, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Hell no. What is the rush? AFD's should last the full period, to avoid drama at deletion review. Edison (talk) 20:50, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why, thank you :-) My vote may actually comply with policy now, because the news coverage of this guy is overwhelming, he has apparently touched a sensitive cord of the American psyche and its feeling about work. AP, New York Times, etc, etc.--Milowent • talkblp-r 12:31, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Or its just a silly season story in the 'and now for' segments at the end of news stories and just another internet joke (like that cop killer up north) that gets all the sados in a lather untill they move on to the latest dilletante fetish.Slatersteven (talk) 12:38, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, you're just worried about being confused with the guy. Much of history is "silly,", e.g., Mary Toft in 1726, Slater in 2010.--Milowent • talkblp-r 14:14, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Make this article a stub, or expand it. Don't delete it! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Moch770 (talk • contribs) 19:44, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete or put a short note about him into "Events of 2010" or another article about ... I don't know, flight attendant controversies or something. Because a year from now we'll be going "Stephen who?" --Bluejay Young (talk) 20:06, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
A year from now when you're going "what was that flight attendant story about the guy who escaped the plane....?", you'll be able to find it, especially if wikipedia covers it. With the internet, any odd and famous amusing event from the past -- such as Mahir Çağrı, Tourist guy, Bert is Evil, Ate my balls, Mark V Shaney, is within easy reach. Why not give people the pleasure of being able to access the knowledge they want to access?--Milowent • talkblp-r 20:29, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
All of these are not single one off events, they are ongoing (or were) phenomina. Why is this even considerd worthy of a page? Does this mean that every twat who does something idiotic that gets news coverage (and here we see Mr Spigot nailing an albertros to his head) gets a page. Its worse then the Guiness book of people doing daft things to get a bit of attention.Slatersteven (talk) 20:38, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Who was that airplane pilot who landed in the river one time? Edison (talk) 20:52, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • KEEP A lot of individuals are famous for 1 event ( John Hinkley Jr, Sirhan Sirhan, Samatha Smith (wrote Andropov a letter),

and there are others, being known for 1 event does not disqualify this individual. Add to it that he was arrested and is now at Rikers Island. KEEP KoshVorlonNaluboutes,Aeria Gloris 20:12, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

True but the events they were part of were what made them notable, in a senece they are not notable its what they did (or tried to do) that makes them notable. All this bloke did was to lose he temper and storm of a plane his actions will not affext any one but those invloved.Slatersteven (talk) 20:25, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep for now. I would highly recommend a delete and merge, but this should be interesting to watch unfold. The way things are turning out, I am inclined to wait a couple of weeks for things to settle down. He's almost achieving cult status, which surprised me a great deal. --Hourick (talk) 20:46, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
And this will (if it turns ouot this is a flash in the pan) be used with the shout of notability is not temporary. Why not delete it and if it does have milage re-create the page?Slatersteven (talk) 20:53, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Lots of biographies in Wikipedia are about people famous for "one event." In this case, ABC News calls his departure probably "one of the most dramatic ways to quit a job ever." Christian Science Monitor says he is "fast becoming an Internet folk hero." Activities which are the extremes of human behavior may well be encyclopedic. He is not just one more person who quit his job. His response to abuse from a customer has received 1416 instances of coverage worldwide. If Chesley Sullenberger gets an article which survived AFD for one event lasting a few seconds of piloting of an airplane and some good luck landing an airplane it, why can't Slater have an article for one event on an airplane in which he was finally fed up and quit in a way which abused employees worldwide can appreciate? The court case is only beginning, and he says his behavior is a response to out of control passengers. In a legal case, there is not one event but a series of events, lasting months.Edison (talk) 20:48, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
There is a world of differance between a man saving 100's of lives and some moron losing his temeper and throwing a wobbly (I show em a nick some beer). Most burglary trials last months, some get news coverage are they notable too?Slatersteven (talk) 20:53, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
What does that mean in plain English? wobbly, nick? Which burglary trials got 1416 instances of coverage around the world, because the papers and news channels saw something out of the ordinary? Edison (talk) 20:56, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It is plain English and in common usage, throwing a wobbly To throw a tantrum. Reached the end of rational thought and action. So how much coverage would an single event that has legal repercusions need to qaulify as a notable event?Slatersteven (talk) 21:02, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that on a case-by-case basis editors made the decision to include Sullenberger's article in Wikipedia does not void WP:BLP1E. Editors did not delete WP:BLP1E to make that happen. Practically, what this means is that editors can make the case here in the Afd there's a significance to Steven Slater, that again, on a case-by-case basis, editors can come to a consensus that a stand-alone biographical article on Steven Slater should appear in Wikipedia. Make the case for it because there's a lot of delete votes here citing a policy for doing so. patsw (talk) 21:30, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Also, Sullenberger is notable for his work outside of that one event. The fact that no article existed doesn't mean he didn't rate one. - Richfife (talk) 21:46, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. Meets WP:BLP1E. ----moreno oso (talk) 21:08, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Pity there's no WP:IICDIINN: "If I can do it, it's not notable". - Richfife (talk) 01:26, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Wrong. Note the Christian Science Monitor and ABC News above, which are not predictions by me that more coverage will be given, but statements from reliable sources of present notability. People magazine says many people are "labeling JetBlue flight attendant Steven Slater a hero. " Not a prediction, a statement of the present state of notability. Time Magazine says "Slater's unique flip-out struck a nerve with frustrated flyers the world over." Edison (talk) 21:32, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Lots of people get called heros on the internet that does not establish lasting notability Time seems to be usurem this has any milage http://newsfeed.time.com/2010/08/10/the-5-best-things-about-flight-attendant-steven-slaters-freakout/. Is this all the internet (and wikiepdia)is for making heros out of tits. I can imagine the fisrt of the pages about some NIMBYs complaining about a new Tesco in Much whinning in the rut.Slatersteven (talk) 21:51, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Snow delete. Case of WP:BLP1E. SYSS Mouse (talk) 21:37, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - per yonder votes. Not really notable for anything, just in the news as a fluff story at the moment. cookiecaper (talk / contribs) 22:58, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Don't throw a wobbly now, I just wanna keep per Milowent. Yes, I went there. Cindamuse (talk) 23:37, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, but move to an article about the event itself. If it's notable enough for ABC World News, CBS Evening News, NBC Nightly News, and almost every major newspaper in the U.S., it ought to be notable enough for Wikipedia. (Yeah, I know this is Wikipedia and not WikiNews; my point on notability still stands.) –BMRR (talk) 00:20, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Delete per WP:BLP1E and WP:SNOW. I was tempted to close this discussion myself, but I'm short on time. If he becomes genuinely notable in the future, we can recreate or restore the article. Until then, it needs to go. --jonny-mt 01:23, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep This is just going to snowball. The guy will get stints on talk shows and a book deal...everyone should know the drill by now. If, in defiance of the natural order of things, it fades to obscurity relatively quickly, we can always delete or merge it in 2 months. To be honest, I don't know why people are so eager to delete these sorts of things within 24 hours of them happening. Let the story play out and see how the article evolves for a couple weeks...
    --K10wnsta (talk) 02:01, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question: What's a snow delete? Argel1200 (talk) 02:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    A snow delete involkes the WP:SNOW essay, essentially stating that, while AfDs normally run seven days, the result is so certain that the discussion should be closed early as a full discusssion is not warranted. It's not a policy, but is intended to be a guide to the application of WP:Ignore all rules and WP:Wikipedia is not a Bureaucracy.  -- Lear's Fool 02:28, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Keep This is definetely not a case of WP:BLP1E, apparently most of you didn't read the WP:BLP1E. The reliable sources are persistent. Right now, more people around the world know of this guy and this story then will ever know who John Hinckley is. And, according to WP:BLP1E, John Hinckley is the prototype of notability for a single event. There are more notes about this guy than about 99 percent of Wikipedia subjects. Right now, a google search for Steven Slater gives 1.4 million results. All of those results could be characterized as "Notes". If something has 1.4 million notes, then it is notable. Any other interpretation is a psychotic break from reality that, unfortunatley, has taken over the mind set of some Wikipedians. I just did a random article, from the home page of Wikipedia, and came up with "Chemlab", a band. Googling it reveals 90,000 results. How is that more notable than the millions for Steven Slater? There is no way that the notability of this story is going away. Keep.--Marcwiki9 (talk) 02:26, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Mbstone (talk) 03:12, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I disagree with those who say delete. This man is worthy enough to have an article...it is an ongoing story...come on, there are plenty of pages on here about people who killed one person, or robbed one bank or got nude in public once; for this man, he freaked out and got the media's attention. Of course the article needs sprucing up; but please consider keeping this page. It will gradually blossom. Tinton5 (talk) 03:19, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It needs to blossom first, then he can have an article. I'm surprised this hasn't been cited yet, but Other Stuff Exists is a pretty important precedent here. - Richfife (talk) 03:29, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Not a case of WP:BLP1E this was a notable event in western culture. It was a safe and sane dramatic event. The first since 9/11 - and as such should be applauded and remembered. This is a historical event of note by virtual of the safety within a space deemed to be the most dangerous. Pakse 10:18, 10 August 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.212.141.193 (talk) [reply]
Ummm... A little early to be calling it "historical" and "seminal" (from the edit comment) isn't it? - Richfife (talk) 03:25, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Changed to MOVE - see below Once off yes, but wasn't the Cuban Missile Crisis a once off event? Didn't Jack Ruby get famous for a once off event? I believe this one should stay because of it's iconic status. It's certainly exceptionally notable, just look at Google News stats. It's probable that his actions really show an industry wide problem. No one has claimed that this was a stunt for self-promotion. The guy flipped, did so in a manner that caused instant global fame, and is regarded as a hero by many. His actions though crazed highlight a developing situation of passengers and staff being pushed too far by security and airline policies. This incident is quite likely to be looked back on as "Where it Started". I would say we should instead agree to revisit the AfD in 6-12 months. This incident's impact reflects on so much more than a once off meltdown by a disgruntled employee. Sorry, I have no login as I choose to edit directly. 24.23.198.90 (talk) 04:29, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
What's with all the weird messianic vibes that keep showing up? How is this different from, say, this scenario: A security guard on the fifth floor of a department store is hassled by a customer, rags them out on the store wide intercom, grabs a hat a he likes and takes off down the fire escape. Cops find him screwing his wife. - Richfife (talk) 07:20, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
There's an airplane fetish, that's what. Two people killed in a car? Boring! Two people killed in a plane? News! Morenoodles (talk) 10:08, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
There's a much bigger picture here. The entire industry is struggling with some impossible balances. Security "concerns" vs Passenger convenience, Profitability concerns vs staff morale, Space vs size of people, The innocent cabin crew have become the Airline company point contact for the well documented increasingly angry travelling public. The insistence of the Securocrats on control vs the realities of human nature and needs. Luggage fees vs Carry On behaviours. What this is is an unmanagable, unbalancable set of competing needs. Steven Slater's actions have shown a major policy and system debacle in a human and personal way. It was highly notable and globally published, and it reflects a much larger issue of an entire system breaking down. Notable, encylopedic, historical - and most of all - people want to read it - newspapers don't publish things people don't want to read - of course it belongs in an encylopedia - some people want to read about this guy in more depth than just a oneliner in the JetBlue article. 24.23.198.90 (talk) 10:26, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
These are all very good and valid points but wikipedia is not the place for them as per WP:NOTBATTLEGROUND. GainLine ♠ ♥ 11:38, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - classic case of WP:BLP1E. Quoting the policy: "If reliable sources cover the person only in the context of a single event, and if that person otherwise remains, or is likely to remain, a low-profile individual, we should generally avoid having an article on them." If this guy become really famous down the road which I doubt, then the article can always be recreated.—Chris!c/t 05:01, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - Even if Slater falls back into obscurity, he would have something in common with John Hinckley, Jr (see WP:BLP1E) who did not get up to very much after his assassination attempt, except going to jail. The event in this case does have significance as the first time that a flight attendant has made their own emergency exit, a hero in popular culture and the most outrageous way to quit a job. The event also highlights the rudeness of passengers these days. We can't predict where this event will end as it is still unfolding. I say let the article evolve with the incident and review later. Freelion (talk) 06:14, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep' - Let's wait for a week to see what happens, then put back deletion on the table. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.54.28.251 (talk) 07:59, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Policy goes the other way: If he's not notable, delete the article and recreate when he is. - Richfife (talk) 08:16, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
No one is questioning notability with thousands of newspaper reports on him. 24.23.198.90 (talk) 10:18, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment People want to read about this fellow, and Wikipedia is one obvious place. When there's a juicy murder (or celebrity suicide) there are copycats; perhaps now dozens, hundreds of people will be shouting "Take this job and shove it!" Perhaps we should wait a week and see whether wage-slave capitalism collapses. Morenoodles (talk) 10:08, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Are people really comparing this to an attempt to assassinate a president, or to a nuclear war almost starting? I was so certain that this was WP:BLP1E that I almost blanked the article as a courtesy as soon as I saw it, expecting it to be deleted within a few hours. I don't know why this doesn't seem so obviously cut and dry...am I really missing something?Qwyrxian (talk) 10:22, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. This is August, or what in Britain is called the "silly season". The floods in Pakistan (just to take one example) are several million times more important, but people don't want to read about that kind of stuff. In contrast to hundreds of thousands of actual endangered humans, Slater (population: one) is a "human interest story"; and if he's not "the common man" then at least he seems closer to that elusive ideal than do any number of cringe-inducing faux-folksy politicians. Morenoodles (talk) 10:34, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - Possible compromise solution - So many people are calling for deletion per WP:BLP1E, maybe we need to follow WP:BLP1E....... I see no event article, maybe that is a suitable compromise? Create an event article as that very much deserves an article, and would probably be better to have than an article primarily about the event than one that is lodged under someones name. Whatever happens this incident should somehow find it's way to a wiki article. 24.23.198.90 (talk) 10:33, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Move to an article on the event, and keep. (Thanks to the IP immediately above.) Morenoodles (talk) 10:36, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Welcome. I'm trying to learn wiki. We all talk about WP:BLP1E, and it opens with some great guidance "The general rule in many cases is to cover the event, not the person". Everyone, including me, who is expressing outrage at the prospects of banishment of article wants the issue in wiki, i don't think anyone has yelled that they want it covered in Steven Slater specifically. If he does become mr working class folk hero, we can revisit. Move 24.23.198.90 (talk) 10:44, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
If we move it it should not be to a page about this incident but to a page about Stewerds wiging out. Lets put it into a wider context.Slatersteven (talk) 12:23, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment several actually:
  1. I do not think we are yet at the threshold of Balloon boy hoax in terms of having a deeper story. An anon editor started a factual summary at Flight attendant to which I added the information on the arraignment.
  2. Some of the keep votes are merely WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS and do not engage any points we have raised re WP:BLP1E. They are arguments to avoid.
  3. A large volume of media coverage in itself is not sufficient.
  4. If we move this article to Overhead bin controversy or Notable nonlethal incidents on aircraft and the story just ends with Slater taking a plea deal for the misdemeanor charges, it still is just about one individual which lasted for 2 news cycles. patsw (talk) 12:41, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Given the level of effort required for one to "Like" (not follow) Steven Slater, this claim is nonsense. Notability in the context of an Afd is term of art. Does the article meet the criteria for WP:N? Facebook is coverage but it's trivial coverage. patsw (talk) 13:58, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep A classic case of BLP1E distortion. The point of that guideline is that we should not have biographies as spinoff articles from notable events if the people in question were ancillary to the event. But this case we have one person, one event, one article. The topic is highly notable, being covered globally in major news media and so merits coverage in some fashion. The name of the article and its scope is not a matter for AFD as it can be addressed by ordinary editing in accordance with our editng policy. Colonel Warden (talk) 14:03, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
thats not how I read it, BLP1E says that we should not have articels about people who are notable fro one event, and nothing else. Not tnat we should not have articels about people whoes only notability is being involved in an event.Slatersteven (talk) 14:17, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Come on Mr. Slater, you keep commenting here but fail to disclose your COI. How were you editing from jail yesterday anyhow?--Milowent • talkblp-r 14:20, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Blast and dam found out. OK I admit it I am in fact called Steven Slater.Slatersteven (talk) 14:30, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep but rewrite and move - The incident is clearly notable. The article should be rewritten so that it's not a BLP about Steven Slater, but about the incident. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 15:48, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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