Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Airlines

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Philippine Airlines destinations[edit]

Vandal is decorating the table despite having set it to simplified new format, flags, coloured bars and codes are being added, reverted once but he has done it again, keep a watch. (talk) 13:47, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Anyone in admin take note is deliberatly doing it again and again despite summary notes. (talk) 15:30, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
I have already requested full protection, warned user, and reported him. Citydude1017 (talk) 18:07, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
I'v removed the flags and warned the user over a violation of MOS:FLAGS.--Jetstreamer Talk 22:33, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

User has been blocked for edit warring as he reverted Jetstreamer's edit and removed the warning at his talk page. Page has also been fully protected until 10 April 2015. (talk) 04:14, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

Policy on leased aircraft in fleet list[edit]

Are these not allowed to be listed? why? some airlunes are solely flying leased planes, whats the issue if it referenced. (talk) 13:11, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Leasing is so common it isn't notable. YSSYguy (talk) 13:36, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
Does not make sense and makes it seem like article section is outdated wih missing aircraft, especially types that an airline might not own in its fleet, say a carrier has leased a 747 a type it dosent own be it or not in the carriers livery, so the 747 article can list the carrier as an operator of the type but the airlines article cant show it operating a 747? or cant the 747 article mention it either? so the article would remain devoid of some airlines that only operated the aircraft type on lease, or is it all dependant on which editor is watching which article? as mentioned if you start following this policy for some airlines it would leave their fleet section empty since they dont own any. (talk) 14:47, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment It's not a policy but a guideline that can be changed provided we have consensus.--Jetstreamer Talk 21:52, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

You may be getting different kinds of leasing mixed up, in a lot of fleets aircraft are leased from a broker or leasing company, the aircraft is part of the airline fleet and tends to be for years rather than weeks, these would always be listed as part of the fleet. Some airlines when they are short of capacity will dry or wet lease aircraft as required if they are busy this tends to be weeks or months. When the aircraft is dry-leased it is operated by the airline so could be listed but mostly these are short term and may not be notable. Wet leasing is when you borrow somebody elses aircraft to operate for you, it is not operated by the airline although sometimes it can be painted in the airline livery, these should not really be listed. MilborneOne (talk) 11:50, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

I misunderstood earlier, I thought the question was whether or not to mention that this or that number of a/c are leased in the Notes section of an airline article's Fleet table. Of course leased aircraft should be included in an airline's total - but there is no need to mention that they are leased. YSSYguy (talk) 14:03, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
Agree - it is not really notable. MilborneOne (talk) 16:43, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
Agree - not notable. It may on occasion be very relevant to the business, for example when an airline that is short of cash does a 'sale & leaseback' to release some money, but that possibility/event would appear in the body of the article/history. Or we may choose to include an airline's leasing policy, or change of policy, in the article. However in the fleet lists themselves, as you outlined above, MilborneOne, we should include the aircraft without stating whether or not they are leased. Apart from anything else, I would have thought the detail would be difficult to source accurately, and next to impossible to keep up to date. Carbonix (talk) 13:52, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

The advice in WP:AIRLINE-FLEET-LIST should definitely be changed were it says that wet-leased aircraft should not be mentioned. Leaving out long-term wetleased aircraft is nonsense as some airlines then may be shown has having barely any aircraft at all as happened with Air Lituanica for example where of four aircraft three were wet-leased. Therefore our articles are factually wrong there which should not be forced based on a unconstructive WP advice. -- (talk) 09:18, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

In the particular case right above, the airline itself did not include the three wet-leased aircraft at the official website. I don't see the reason the article should.--Jetstreamer Talk 11:32, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Fleet List Colours/Colors[edit]

Noticed a trend to match the table colours in fleet lists to match the corporate colours or such like, can you please note that this sometimes gives access problems per WP:COLOUR and should be avoided when used just for decoration, thanks. MilborneOne (talk) 10:53, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

This had previously been discussed and there was consensus to use the airline/corporate colours.--Jetstreamer Talk 14:18, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
Citation needed for the existence of such a consensus. Imho it's a rather weak reason to deviate from default WP colour schemes and as mentioned it presents WP:Accessibility problems. It gives the reader no new information that cannot be given by showing the logo or a photo of the aircraft, or simply stated in the article text. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 15:44, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
Search through the archives for yourself. Citation needed does not apply here, this is not a content page. However, I don't have any problem with using the default combination of colours, but only after we agree on that.--Jetstreamer Talk 15:48, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
I found this WT:WikiProject Airlines/Archive 6#Do tables and navboxes really need to match airline's colors? which is merely a perfunctory and inconclusive discussion, not a solid consensus setting "poll". I've seen as many airline articles that do not use the livery colours as those that do, so it's hardly a well established practice anyway. I think a proper RFC may be a good idea to establish a proper solid consensus. By the way, did you really need to be so pedantically litteral about my use of the term "citation needed"? You claimed that a consensus exists, I requested some evidence, then you basically blow me off. It's a well established principle (and simply common courtesy) that the onus of proof is on the person making the assertion. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 16:28, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
Dont have a problem with that but some of the combinations of coloured text on coloured backgrounds that have been done will cause access issues, one recent change added this to Brussels Airlines:
Aircraft In Service Orders Passengers Notes
J Y Total
Try to image the effect on readers with colour of eyesight issues. We just need to take care on the colours used. MilborneOne (talk) 14:30, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
Agree. The example above is really awful.--Jetstreamer Talk 14:51, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
Absolutely agree; this example is almost illegible, even with no eyesight issues! These may be the airline's logo colours, but they don't use that combination for text on their website, etc. I have found the advice at WP:COLOUR very helpful, especially the suggestion to use Snook's color contrast tool when in doubt. - Carbonix (talk) 15:15, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
Personally I think, that even if readable, some colour combinations while passable when rendered in bold font letters a metre tall on an aircraft don't work on the computer (or other device) screen with fonts at normal sizes. And how visible is the fine underline that indicates a tooltip is available to explain the codes J and Y. I'll also say in passing that for that example given capitalization under the MoS ought to be followed. GraemeLeggett (talk) 16:45, 16 May 2015 (UTC)


Can someone review these edits, which seem to do useful stuff, but also to be, possibly, COI or NPOV. All the best: Rich Farmbrough13:59, 31 May 2015 (UTC).

Reverted. Clearly promotional. Heck, there was even an exclamation point after an early sentence. It read like ad copy and needed to be reverted outright. oknazevad (talk) 14:26, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. I was concerned that some of the changes in names might be worth keeping, for example Ted Foljas, as COO [1]. All the best: Rich Farmbrough15:10, 31 May 2015 (UTC).


Hello there. Can someone please take a look at the article? An editor affiliated to the company is persistently removing propersly sourced content and making changes to the article as if it was the official website. Thanks.--Jetstreamer Talk 10:24, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Can someone please intervene here? Ramslater1 (talk · contribs) keeps removing properly sourced information from the article.--Jetstreamer Talk 21:23, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Air Asia Group destinations[edit]

Article has become confusing needs to be cleaned up. (talk) 19:34, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

flydubai destinations vandal[edit]

someone is adding flags and creating separate list for terminated routes in there, fixed it some but they reverted it, so undid it again keep a lookout (talk) 12:39, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Fleet List Orders and Options Split[edit]

Where an options column is available in a fleet list should the options count towards the order total or be as its own stat. Korean Air[1] is an example where they mad a purchase of 30 for their fleet with 20 options but a user has added the options to the order value as well as noting it as an option. Linkops85 (talk) 12:38, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

An option is not an order and should not be added to the orders total. MilborneOne (talk) 12:43, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
Thanks MilborneOne. Ill get Korean Air Corrected Linkops85 (talk) 15:39, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
It has also been agreed not long ago not to include an ″Options″ column in fleet tables.--Jetstreamer Talk 21:55, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Air Arabia Maroc[edit]

Hello everyone. Can someone please take a look at the article? A new editor, AAMaroc (talk · contribs) has been making unexplained/unsourced changes. Furthermore, they are duplicating the content of Air Arabia Maroc destinations. Thanks.--Jetstreamer Talk 14:58, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Hello dear User:Jetstreamer

We only want to update the info about the airline, the info we posted are neutral and objective, the COO, destinations and fleet has changed and need to be updated — Preceding unsigned comment added by AAMaroc (talkcontribs) 14:59, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Read the core content policies.--Jetstreamer Talk 15:03, 26 June 2015 (UTC)