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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 123.192.93.138 (talk) at 18:57, 1 February 2012 (→‎Move request). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Untitled

english=Formosa
traditional=臺灣
simplified=台湾
pinyin=Táiwān
wade-giles=T'ai-wan
bopomofo=ㄊㄞˊㄨㄢˉ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.51.8.110 (talk) 06:51, 23 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Removals: Chinese Taipei; Taiwan, Province of China

Removed:

  • Taiwan, Province of China, according to the UN, see Republic of China
    • "Taiwan, Province of China" is a redirect. According to the UN, the Republic of China does not exist, so the link does not make sense.
  • the Taiwanese Authority, according to the People's Republic of China, see Chinese Taipei
    • "Chinese Taipei" is an international designation for Taiwan ROC. Directing people in search of "Taiwanese Authority" there is misleading and unhelpful. This is a disambiguation for the word "Taiwan", not "Taiwanese Authority".

--Jiang 02:40, 4 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Regardless of any silliness at the UN, the Republic of China certainly does exist, they had elections rather recently, their government is involved in regular talks with the PRC and has a fairly well equipped defense force. Trying to pretend they don't exist is silliness at best. Arker 04:57, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Response:
    • They might want "Chinese Taipei", and all you need to is modify the description for it to "The interantional designation for the Republic of China (otherwise known as Taiwan): Chinese Taipei"
    • "Taiwan, Province of China" contains "Taiwan" most prominently, so I don't see why that isn't a valid place to point to. The term exists. If you don't like the link, put a "see 'redirect:destination' " instead.
    • 132.205.93.89 22:54, 7 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I have difficulty understanding your response. What is "They might want...." supposed to mean? Who? "Chinese Taipei, the international designation for the Republic of China, commonly known as Taiwan, used in deference to the People's Republic of China, where organizations defer to the PROC." is not proper disambiguation form. It does not show how "Chinese Taipei" can be confused with Taiwan.

"Taiwan, Province of China, the term used by the United Nations, in deference to the People's Republic of China, in reference to the Republic of China, commonly known as Taiwan, see Chinese Taipei." Again, "Chinese Taipei" is not supposed to be synonymous with "Taiwan, Province of China" and the article in questions explains how "Chinese Taipei" is used as a term, and does not explain the "Province of China" in its entirety (eg culture, geography, etc). --Jiang 00:03, 8 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

  • Response:
    • It's not my fault that Taiwan, Province of China redirects to Chinese Taipei. However, Taiwan, Province of China is mentioned in the Chinese Taipei article. Your complaint was that I placed a redirected link on the page, I solved that by placing the redirect target on the page. Now your complaint is that the target page is not the proper page to link to. The only solution to your problem is for you to place a template:rfd onto the Taiwan, Province of China redirect and delete it. Otherwise, it is a proper solution to place Taiwan, Province of China on the disambiguation page, because people could very easily be looking for that through "Taiwan".
    • Chinese Taipei is also a very conceiable destination for someone looking at "Taiwan", as it is the internationl name for Taiwan, therefore a proper disambiguation.
    • I see you deleted REpublic of Formosa before, but it's back by someone else, and you didn't delete it again. This is also a proper disambiguation.
    • A disambiguation page is a page that points to things that people might want to look at when they type in the ambiguous article (Taiwan). The three above are obviously things that people could be searching for when they type in Taiwan.
    • 132.205.45.110 18:25, 11 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Since when have we linked redirects, or more specifically, link redirects and their destinations on a disambiguation page? Give an example. The whole purpose of a disambiguation page is defeated when there exists a redirect. If readers are already linked to their destination, then there is no disambiguation to be done!

While people going to "Chinese Taipei" may be more interested in what is covered in the "Taiwan" or "Republic of China" articles, the opposite is not true because going from general to specific is not handled by the disambiguation. It is handled by the article text. The "Chinese Taipei" article is a description of the term and an explanation of its uses. This makes it a subarticle of "Taiwan"/"Republic of China". Furthermore, this is not presented in disambiguation format. Will readers be looking solely for the information in "Chinese Taipei" and not in "Taiwan" be misdirected to the Taiwan article? I find it highly unlikely. --Jiang 22:59, 11 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

  • Response:
    • People can well infact be looking for the Taiwan, Province of China term. Since the redirects to Chinese Taipei, that is an appropriate target for disambiguation. The fact that "Taiwan, Province of China" contains the term "Taiwan" should obviously make it a proper subject for disambiguation.
    • Chinese Taipei could well be something they're looking for. "Taiwan" is easier to remember that "Chinese Taipei". If someone sees "Chinese Taipei", but is told that that's the "Taiwanese National Sports Team", they could well look for information in Wikipedia under Taiwan, but be looking for Chinese Taipei.
    • 132.205.45.148 17:18, 12 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

You are begging the question. Let me try to explain again: "Taiwan, Province of China" is a redirect. Therefore, people searching for "Taiwan, Province of China" are already led to "Chinese Taipei". Therefore, stating that if you are looking for "Taiwan, Province of China", then you should go to "Chinese Taipei" is redundant and unncecessary. The software already does that. "Taiwan, Province of China" is not an article. I repeat: Since when have we linked redirects, or more specifically, link redirects and their destinations on a disambiguation page? Give me just one instance of this on wikipedia.

"Chinese Taipei" is already linked in the Taiwan article. People looking for information about the use of "Chinese Taipei" will find it there and can click on the linked text for detail. Disambiguation serves a single purpose: to let the reader choose among different pages that might reside under the same title. Will the "Chinese Taipei" article appropriately reside as "Taiwan"? Of course not! The whole article dwells on the term "Chinese Taipei", not "Taiwan". The article on "Chinese Taipei" is not a country/province article on Taiwan island. It is specific to its page title.

And please don't reformat my posts. They are following standard wikipedia talk page protocol. You indent, I don't since I started. --Jiang 18:26, 12 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Then, why do you delete all references to Taiwan, Province of China from the disambiguation page? Redirects exist to allow people to get to the article that contains the information they're looking for on the proper page. Proper protocol would mean that you change references to redirects to point directly to the redirect target, to reduce load on the servers. So, why did you remove the link this time? "Taiwan, Province of China" redirects to "Chinese Taipei", so, obviously, since "Taiwan, Province of China" should properly be listed on the disambiguation page, the see Chinese Taipei would be there.
That Chinese Taipei is linked to from the Taiwan article is neither here nor there, since this is a dab page, and its links are independant of whatever is on the Taiwan article page. That people would look for Chinese Taipei as a meaning of Taiwan is entirely relevant to it being on the Taiwan dab page.
The whole article of "Chinese Taipei" dwells on why Taiwan is called Chinese Taipei, and not Taiwan or Republic of China, so it should appear on the Taiwan dab page because of that.
That Taiwan, Province of China redirects to Chinese Taipei, also means that Chinese Taipei should be on the dab page.
"Taiwan, Province of China" should appear on the dab page because it's Taiwan, Province of China, that much should be self-explanatory.
Redirects exist for a reason. But since they are redirects, are you going to delete all information about the redirected information because they are redirects?
I've listed this at WP:RFC because we are having a major disagreement on proper content.
You want a dab page that has a redirect target listed? Ironsides lists USS Constitution, the detination of the redirect Old Ironsides.
132.205.45.110 18:12, 13 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Taiwan, Province of China is not referenced because no such article exists, and as long as we leave it as a redirect, we dont intend it to exist. Since when have we linked redirects, or more specifically, link redirects and their destinations on a disambiguation page? Ironside links USS Constitution, not Old Ironsides in the format *'''[[USS Constitution|The USS Constitution]]''', which was nicknamed '''"Old Ironsides"'''. This is proper disambiguation format since the destination article (and not the redirect) is linked and the alternate name directly reflects the disambiguation page title. Since when has the name "Taiwan" appeared in the two words "Chinese" and "Taipei"?

You say, "Redirects exist to allow people to get to the article that contains the information they're looking for on the proper page." So what? This is a disambiguation page, not a redirect. You say "Proper protocol would mean that you change references to redirects to point directly to the redirect target, to reduce load on the servers." You are wrong. There's nothing here asking us to reduce loads on the servers. And again, this is neither a redirect nor a redirect target. This is a disambiguation page. You ask "So, why did you remove the link this time?" I answer, because it is a redirect. You say, "'Taiwan, Province of China' redirects to 'Chinese Taipei', so, obviously, since 'Taiwan, Province of China' should properly be listed on the disambiguation page, the see Chinese Taipei would be there." Taiwan, Province of China should not be listed on this disambiguation page. See above.

You say, "That Chinese Taipei is linked to from the Taiwan article is neither here nor there, since this is a dab page, and its links are independant of whatever is on the Taiwan article page." I say, please type in grammatical sentences. The large proportion of sentences here that fail to follow the rules of English grammar or basic logic is forcing me to read over your postings several times to understand you. In this case, I don't understand you. You say, "That people would look for Chinese Taipei as a meaning of Taiwan is entirely relevant to it being on the Taiwan dab page." I say, I never claimed that people would "look for Chinese Taipei as a meaning of Taiwan". Chinese Taipei is not a "meaning of Taiwan". Instead, I said "The 'Chinese Taipei' article is a description of the term and an explanation of its uses. This makes it a subarticle of 'Taiwan"/"Republic of China'."

You say, "The whole article of "Chinese Taipei" dwells on why Taiwan is called Chinese Taipei, and not Taiwan or Republic of China, so it should appear on the Taiwan dab page because of that." I say, the logic doesn't follow. It is because of your premise that your conclusion is false. Dwelling on why Taiwan is called Chinese Taipei implies that the article is focused on "Chinese Taipei" as a term and is unsuitable as a replacement for the Taiwan article. Disambiguation serves a single purpose: to let the reader choose among different pages that might reside under the same title. Will the "Chinese Taipei" article appropriately reside as "Taiwan"? Of course not! The whole article dwells on the term "Chinese Taipei", not "Taiwan". The article on "Chinese Taipei" is not a country/province article on Taiwan island. It is specific to its page title.

"That Taiwan, Province of China redirects to Chinese Taipei, also means that Chinese Taipei should be on the dab page." But would Chinese Taipei satisfy the single purpose of disaambiguation in wikipedia? Perhaps the redirect is unsuitable. Perhaps we should extend the Chinese Taipei article to a general article on names and designation for Taiwan as a proposed about a year ago.

You say, "'Taiwan, Province of China' should appear on the dab page because it's Taiwan, Province of China, that much should be self-explanatory." I say, this doesn't settle the fact that you are linking a redirect and that Chinese Taipei is an unsuitable article for listing here.

You ask, "But since they are redirects, are you going to delete all information about the redirected information because they are redirects?" I answer, redirects contain no information. This instance contains only the code #REDIRECT[[Chinese Taipei]]. Did I delete the redirect? It still works! We are not aiming for inclusion of information here. We are trying to aid confused readers to the proper location to find this information. In doing this, we list different pages that might reside under the same title. If the page cannot properly reside under "Taiwan", then it is perhaps not a central article, but a periphery or side article that does not belong here.--Jiang 04:33, 16 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Please sign your comments

I would like to read this discussion and try to give a neutral opinion, but I can hardly even make out what the stances are because most remarks are unsigned. Jiang, I personally would not answer unsigned remarks. Also, : can be used for indentation when replying. Piet 15:09, 11 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

It appears everything is signed to me. 70.51.8.110 (talk) 06:49, 23 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have read the above dispute and from studying the links to this page, I do not believe that a link to Taiwan, Province of China (nor to Chinese Taipei) would be helpful to those who stumble upon this page. JeremyStein 18:19, 12 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

And why would that not be? I have pointed out that "Taiwan Province" is also commonly referenced as "Taiwan". Maybe not in your community, but surely in others. I've also pointed out other explanations as well. Liu Tao (talk) 15:17, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I've pointed it out in the Talk:Taiwan article, not here... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Liu Tao (talk • contribs) 15:21, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Taiwan/ROC

We're having issues on the wording of the sentence "Chinese Taipei, the name that the Taiwan or the ROC competes under in the Olympics and many other international events."

Taiwan should not be included because Chinese Taipei is NOT Taiwan, it is the ROC only under a different name. To say that it is also Taiwan is to say that the ROC and Taiwan are the SAME entities, which we have all largely agreed they are not. To remove the "Taiwan" out is not POV, it is called "removing incorrect information". Chinese Taipei is not the name Taiwan competes under, it is the name the ROC competes under. Taiwan is an island, a geographic entity, not a political entity, it cannot participate in international events because it doesn't even exist as a political entity besides the Taiwan Province. To include "Taiwan" in the sentence is to include incorrect information. Wikipedia does not support incorrect information in their articles. Liu Tao (talk) 20:53, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's not incorrect to call the ROC "Taiwan". This is the common name of the ROC; this is how it's called by most media organization; and it's the name under which the ROC is known by most people (at least in English speaking countries, which is the audience we write for on en.wikipedia). To avoid an edit war, I'm fine with the Taiwan/ROC compromise though. Laurent (talk) 21:20, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
To say that it is also Taiwan is to say that the ROC and Taiwan are the SAME entities, which we have all largely agreed they are not.
In one sense of course they are not. Taiwan is the place, region, or country. ROC is the government. The government does not compete in sporting events as "Chinese Taipei". But it does participate in groups like the WTO using the informal name "Chinese Taipei" (the formal name is much longer).
WikiLaurent is also right that the ROC is known by most people as Taiwan. Readin (talk) 21:24, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
How many times must I say it? RoC is not a frickin government, it is a STATE and is composed of a government, territory, and population (the basic parts for a state). ROC itself is also a place, region, and country. Taiwan only covers the Island or Province (depends on usage), and not the whole of the ROC. People of Kinmen and Matsu are represented by Chinese Taipei too, which obviously makes Taiwan NOT the only range covered by the Chinese Taipei or ROC. Taiwan is NOT the territory of the ROC, it is A territory of the ROC. As for the ROC being referred as Taiwan, it is already mentioned 3 lines above, to mention it again is superfulous and unnecessary as well as could be considered as POV. Also, to call the ROC "Taiwan" is only correct in the common usage and speech (AKA slang) where it is commonly used as so. As for technicality, political, and 'official' context, to refer to the ROC as "Taiwan" is incorrect. And even if the ROC is commonly referred to as "Taiwan", it is only common in SOME places, not ALL. Long story short, the reference of the ROC as "Taiwan" is NOT UNIVERSAL. There are still places, communities, and societies where the "ROC" and "Taiwan" are not used synonymously and are differentiated. Liu Tao (talk) 23:20, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
This is inappropriate, I'm spending hours of my time debating with you guys, and you guys just respond with a few words or just ignore me. Either you guys keep debating or you are forfeiting to my points. I'm offering a debate, but you guys are refusing to participate in it. If you're gonna be like this, then you shouldn't be undoing other people's edits based on these points of which you refuse to touch upon on. Liu Tao (talk) 18:30, 2 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I don't agree with some of the things you say, and some of your arguments are irrelevant on Wikipedia because you seem to ignore the policies. For instance, there's no point to keep repeating that calling the ROC "Taiwan" is "incorrect" since Wikipedia doesn't care about what's "correct" or not. We care about the facts, as documented by reliable sources, and the sources tell us that the ROC is more often called "Taiwan" than "the ROC". So, per the WP:COMMONNAMES policy - and if we want readers to know what we are talking about - it's the name we should always use on Wikipedia. Obviously it's not going to happen so we need to reach a compromise. "Taiwan/ROC", "ROC (Taiwan)" or "ROC, commonly known as Taiwan" are good compromises in my opinion, and the second one was actually used by the government at some point. Laurent (talk) 20:37, 2 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You want veriability? It's something called "common sense". You got something who's name is "Republic of China" and you call it "Taiwan", obviously that is not correct. You claim that readers won't know what we're talking about, says who? Have you done a survey. As far as I can see, I don't see why they wouldn't know what we are talking about. The ROC article, first sentence, "Republic of China, commonly known as Taiwan". Wow, if a reader doesn't even read the first sentence of an article, the lad's not a reader. Even if we still end up renaming the ROC article to "Taiwan (state)" or something like that, we've still to differentiate it from the island, province, region, etc. That is the point I am trying to make, not about the frikin names of the different entities. Liu Tao (talk) 06:35, 3 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Move request

There is no single primary topic for "Taiwan". It may refers to the geographical island and the islets immediately around it, or the modern Republic of China at least from the 1990s onwards. By doing so incoming links to Taiwan can regularly be corrected like those directing at Washington or Georgia. 61.18.170.226 (talk) 16:04, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. 42.3.2.237 (talk) 11:56, 19 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, as a step in the right direction. Jenks24 (talk) 04:44, 18 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose (struck, see indented reply below), reluctantly. This is a step in the right direction, but it's not a big enough step and it'll be inappropriately pointed to to oppose a future movement of ROC->Taiwan. Yes, there are many closely related subjects to which Taiwan may refer, but I disagree that we don't have a primary topic. In the vast majority of English language sources, Taiwan refers to the country as a political entity, with geographic meanings coming in a far but not-insignificant second. In my view, the first and biggest step here needs to be to get a good 'this is what the Taiwan country article will look like' up and vote on that. TechnoSymbiosis (talk) 05:33, 19 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • What is worse, to have Taiwan as an island article, or to at least admit it could also refer to the country, i.e. to have a disambiguation page? Would you maybe at least support to move the island away from "Taiwan"? As you, I think for most people outside East Asia, Taiwan refers to the country. But I don't know how the situation is for people from Japan, PRC, ROC and Korea. Huayu-Huayu (talk) 12:05, 19 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • I'll clarify better. My ideal solution is Taiwan→Taiwan (island), and Republic of China→Taiwan. In view of this I support Taiwan→Taiwan (island) but suggest instead a redirect, not a move, of Taiwan to Taiwan (disambiguation). This leaves the door open later for the second potential move of ROC->Taiwan. TechnoSymbiosis (talk) 22:00, 19 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        • Taiwan redirecting to Taiwan (disambiguation) is a WP:MALPLACED disambiguation page, and would be fixed as a non-controversial move by moving the disambiguation page to the base name. The door would still be open to a second potential move of ROC → Taiwan regardless -- if that move request were successful, the disambiguation page would simply be moved again. It's an easy move, and there's never any reason for "X" to redirect to "X (qualifier)" or "X (disambiguation)". -- JHunterJ (talk) 01:59, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
          • Noted on the MALPLACED topic, I'd forgotten about that one. My concern that the move will be pointed to as precedent of consensus remains though - it may be run of the mill from a procedural point of view, but minority opinion (whether it be support or oppose) sometimes has a tendency to grasp at straw(men) to resist a move. I'd want to be clear that my support for Taiwan being the DAB page is temporary and that I will support a future move request to put ROC at Taiwan. Some editors have put a lot of effort into sandbox versions of the affected articles and when they put that to a vote (which should have been soon, until this one popped up), my support will move from this proposal to that one. TechnoSymbiosis (talk) 02:56, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, this is even more confusing for readers. They would expect some full article, not a DAB page. I'd prefer Taiwan → Taiwan (island) and leaving a redirect behind. -- Luk talk 10:38, 19 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Agree. See below. 42.3.2.237 (talk) 11:56, 19 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That solution presumes that the primary topics for both Taiwan and Taiwan (island) are the same (the topic of that article). In that case, per WP:TITLE, Taiwan is preferred as the title for concision. If we prefer Taiwan (island) to Taiwan on the grounds that Taiwan is ambiguous, then we're saying Taiwan should be a dab page. In other words, you can't have it both ways; it's either too ambiguous to be a title and so should be a dab page, or it's not. --Born2cycle (talk) 21:19, 19 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I also suggest that having Taiwan redirect to Taiwan (island) is not the best choice. ErikHaugen (talk | contribs) 22:16, 19 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Qualified support I support having an article on "Taiwan (island)" for the island itself. But there needs to be an article called "Taiwan" for the country. It must not be a DAB. John Smith's (talk) 15:13, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment -- WP has decided that the name "Taiwan" should be used for the present polity, officially called the "Republic of China" to distinguish it from its mainland predecessor and from Peoples Republic of China. The problem is that it is strictly only the name of the main island. The decision that the country is Taiwan means that that should certainly not be a dabpage, but a page on the state. That article needs a dab-hatnote to another article which can cover the other uses, but I do not think that ought to be called a disambiguation article, becasue they will all be about aspects of the same thing. This is not a fully formed solution to the problem, but I hope that it will help others come up with one. Peterkingiron (talk) 15:08, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Even if the country should be called "Taiwan" in some written text, it does not mean that the country is the primary topic. One can have one meaning of a word in special contexts and another one in other contexts. Like depending on context Washington can have a specific meaning, but still it is ambiguous. There are no special cases for countries in the WP dab system. Huayu-Huayu (talk) 14:59, 24 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Neither is primary topic. 203.145.92.206 (talk) 04:16, 22 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. The primary topic of "Taiwan" is not the island but the country. That a small cadre of editors refuses to recognize the end of the Chinese Civil War in 1949 should not cause Wikipedia to perpetuate an inaccuracy. Making "Taiwan" a dab page is a step in the right direction. —  AjaxSmack  04:07, 25 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    If the article on the country were called "Taiwan", would it be sensible to have a separate article on the island comprising 99% of its territory? Kanguole 10:22, 25 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    Not, but the proposal here doesn't address that issue. It does, however, represent a step in the right direction — the island is not the primary topic. I'm of the same mind as you on the utility of a single article (I once proposed merging the useless Korean Peninsula article with Korea) but see this move as positive development —  AjaxSmack  01:09, 26 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    It seems to me that the goal should be a merge of the two articles under the common name. This request seems be a step in the opposite direction, as the move of the dab page to the plain title would have to be undone. In the meantime the maze of pages is that little bit more complicated and we inflict another dab page on everyone searching for this term. Kanguole 02:16, 26 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    Incidentally, Taiwan has about 10,000 incoming links from other articles, which this move will turn into dab links that need "fixing", even though the error is at the other end of the link, i.e. what is located at "Taiwan". Kanguole 12:00, 26 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    A bot can probably deal with the redirects if we assume they are correctly linked already, and if not, it will allow us to fix all the errant ones. As for the dab page, it's very easy to move it back to disambiguation if another article, say a merged one, is found to be primary. This move really won't affect any merge proposal one way or another. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 12:38, 26 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – I've added {{movenotice}} to both affected articles. Kanguole 11:00, 25 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. There is already a hatnote at Taiwan (the current article about the island). We don't need to direct people to a disambiguation page. 203.145.92.208 (talk) 20:36, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strongly Oppose Most people want to find information about the people, place and culture when they look for Taiwan (just as when they look for any other country). The scope of the Taiwan article needs to be officially expanded (it already covers more than just the landmass). The current situation needs correcting, but removing the Taiwan article is a big step in the wrong direction. 68.230.182.210 (talk) 20:25, 29 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Important Comment - currently there is a heated debate on Talk:Republic of China about moving that article to Taiwan. I'm not sure what that would mean for this discussion either way. I've proposed there forming a central page upon which we can try and form some ordered consensus on the naming of all Taiwan-related articles. LukeSurl t c 23:25, 30 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • If this page move is enacted, then the proponents of the move you describe above will attempt to wait for some time and see the number of views of [[Taiwan (island)]] and [[Republic of China]] as further evidence in favour of their schemes. GotR Talk 01:35, 31 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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