User talk:Flyer22 Frozen

Your actions to reverse deletions on the hmcs preserver page were recently deleted themselves by another user even though external links also present confirm that the information is accurate. You may be interested to read the story in the first link about an officer that deserted the ship a year ago. It makes reference to Wikipedia edits. You made the news!

This user may sometimes share an IP address with Halo Jerk1.

Welcome to my talk page. I have been editing Wikipedia since 2007. If you want to know more about me, see my user page. My work, like a lot of others, has been complimented and criticized. And in March 2012, I was even blocked. See the block cases. And it's during that first block case that I learned a lot about WP:Assume good faith and who you can count on to be there for you; that experience has made me more acrimonious towards Wikipedia, and this feeling was intensified with my second block case (again, refer to the block cases link). Still, I believe that it's best that I help this site, seeing as many people come here for information (it's almost always ranking highest in search engines, and that type of thing is always going to bring in a lot of readers) and a lot of those people trust what they read here. So it's my job to make sure that any topic I am heavily editing is as accurate as possible.

Any questions, compliments or criticism of my work, feel free to leave me a message here on my talk page or email me. If you leave me a message here, I will usually reply here.

User: John

Initial information

Hello. FYI, see the recent discussion on my talk page here. Apparently the issues with "John" and his obstreperousness as a WP "deletionist" on the Brad Pitt article are not unique. ;) Centpacrr (talk) 20:30, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I know. That's why I've mentioned him as being on a power trip and being power hungry. Flyer22 (talk) 20:38, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well done! And best of luck with that. Basket _Feudalist 14:51, 16 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

September 2013

This is your only warning; if you violate Wikipedia's biographies of living persons policy by inserting unsourced or poorly sourced defamatory content into an article or any other Wikipedia page again, you may be blocked from editing without further notice. --John (talk) 09:47, 15 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As thoroughly supported at the WP:BLP noticeboard, I did not violate the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy with this edit. So not only do you have no valid reason to block me because of such a violation, doing so, as has already been mentioned, would be a violation of WP:INVOLVED. Flyer22 (talk) 11:53, 15 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I'm EatsShootsAndLeaves. I noticed that you made a comment on the page User talk:Flyer22 that didn't seem very civil, so it should be removed. Wikipedia needs people like you and me to collaborate, so it's one of our core principles to interact with one another in a polite and respectful manner. If you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AFlyer22&diff=572932075&oldid=572931110 This was wholly inappropriate, and you already know that. ES &L 10:43, 15 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

EatsShootsAndLeaves (also known as User:Bwilkins), as someone who does not like me (but watches my talk page just waiting for a moment that I will "act up," ever since my brother's actions resulted in my blocks), and has clearly expressed their dislike of me on this very talk page, you should not find it surprising that I take any warning you issue me to be dubious. Flyer22 (talk) 11:53, 15 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I do watch this talkpage to help to ensure that you do not act up again - hence the gentle poke that you were going in the wrong direction, and giving you personally the chance to fix it. Unless you can show proof that I have ever stated that I dislike you, I would recommend you withdraw that statement as well. Your AGF seems to have gone right out the window in the last 24 hours - something that led to your troubles in the past ES &L 13:26, 15 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Like I stated at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents (WP:ANI), you consider my calling out John's antics (being on a power trip and power-hungry) to be a WP:Personal attack. I do not. Nor do I consider calling out the fact that you are not a neutral commentator on anything regarding me to be a personal attack.

You watching my talk page to ensure that I do not "act up" again is ludicrous because I am not a problematic editor (regardless of you associating me with my brother and his past or future mistakes editing at this site). After the way you treated me during my block cases, especially my second block case, there is no way that I can consider you a neutral editor regarding anything that concerns me. And given the post Herostratus left for you during that time, I'm certain that it's more than just me or a few people who agree on that. That is why I do not WP:Assume good faith with regard to your posting any warning to my talk page. I will always believe that you are only watching this talk page to wait until your chance to help oust me from Wikipedia, as you have very clearly expressed that you believe that I do not belong at this site. And my opinion on that is very unlikely to change. But I should thank you, because it's those who clearly want me gone that partly keep me motivated to stay when I know that I would be better off without this drama and other issues like it. Flyer22 (talk) 14:55, 15 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It's rather horrifying to see that you believe that an adult could and/or should retain some form of grudge against you - I'm literally aghast. You know full well that my comments/actions/inaction during that block were based solely on the evidence available to the community at large. You also know full well, that since your unblock, I have actually supported you on more than one occasion. Those facts, plus the polite and gentle notice above are clear and obvious signs that I harbour no ill will towards you and your edits. Indeed, my warning above was repeated by someone wholly unrelated on ANI. I'm also disgusted that you would suggest that I am lying about my intentions - absolutely inppropriate to suggest that, and just plain wrong - and the proof of my actions since your unblock speaks louder than anything else. I'll encourage you to simply "get over it" (forgiveness is more powerful than anything) and "get over yourself" (you're not worth having a grudge against anyway) and try to recognize better when people actually are trying to help you. ES &L 16:37, 16 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Not "should." As for "could," it is "horrifying" that it could happen. But it does happen, including on Wikipedia, and you know that it does. So your being "literally aghast" causes me to be literally aghast at your response on that. As for not believing you? I'm entitled to that, just like you are entitled not to believe people and often don't believe people on Wikipedia. I'm not sure why you expect me to believe that you no longer wish that I was not here at this site. But I don't, and I have valid reason not to believe that. You state that you have supported me since my unblock, but I know of no such case. And even if you have, that is supposed to qualify as an apology for your actions during the aforementioned time? You kept poking me, making me feel worse than I did, during a time that I was going through a hectic, emotionally draining period in my life off Wikipedia (a period that was also partially documented on Wikipedia during that first block case). That is not something one easily "gets over." Nor does one easily "get over" supposed friends who turn their backs on someone they should have better faith in. But even so, my wariness of you is not about not having gotten over your behavior toward me during that time. It's about not having forgotten it. It's about not feeling that you regret any of it. That you can't understand any of that and think this is an ego matter that requires me to "get over [my]self" speaks volumes. As for forgiveness, I don't need a lesson on that either; but I do know that, from personal experience, that saying is not always true. Flyer22 (talk) 17:11, 16 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It's peculiar to be "literally aghast" at the suggestion of a grudge against Flyer22, ES &L, and then say that she is "not worth having a grudge against anyway". I don't know the entire history of the animosity between you two but I think it is not unreasonable for Flyer22 to be suspicious. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 11:32, 17 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

If you don't know the background, and you haven't taken the time to read what I stated, why on Earth would you comment? Even Flyer has blown the background out of proportion - I declined to unblock some months ago ... but to be told that I "dislike them" is ridiculous - how can a human being "dislike" someone they have only interacted with on the internet? ES &L 11:46, 17 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Bwilkins, I haven't blown a thing out of proportion on this matter. It is not that you declined my unblock request, and you know it. It is how you acted; anyone who reads it (that second block case debacle) can see that you were being antagonistic. After all, that is why Herostratus chose to target you to stop commenting on my talk page at that time. And being a Wikipedia editor, you know very well that people can dislike or hate someone on the Internet and that the notion is not ridiculous. Various editors, especially the IP messes we often get, have expressed that they dislike or hate you; for example, the editor You Can Act Like A Man, below in this section, also doesn't appear to like you. I've had enough editors, usually IP editors, state that they dislike me (though usually with different, and sometimes with more provocative, words than dislike); for example, IP 110.174.147.166 and his #Ignorant & Unhelpful, #Stupid Asian Bitch and #Idiotic Sad Case posts (like I told that IP, I'm not Asian nor stupid, but I can be a bitch). And there's also one of the two abusive emails I got during my second block case to keep in mind; the indefinitely blocked User:RJR3333, who was one of the two editors who sent me an abusive email, does not like me at all (at one point, even stated that he hates me and he wished me dead). It is not always a matter of simply stating something we don't mean. There have been Wikipedia editors I do not like. For example, it is obvious that John is fitting that category for me these days. There is nothing ridiculous about disliking someone online, especially when that person's personality shows through, any more than it is ridiculous to dislike someone in an in-person workplace. Like an Internet workplace, it's not like we usually know (instead of "know of") the people we work with in-person. Being in-person offers three-dimension, but it is not much different than my interacting with you on the Internet; not unless I were to actually spend time with you to get to know you. And you referring to me by male pronouns at the WP:ANI discussion regarding John, or as "them" above, instead of by the female pronouns I rightly deserve, is more of your disrespect. Alison can assure that there is no reason to doubt that I'm female, so you should cut out the silly pronoun angle that is akin to the pronoun game. And that I have somewhat bonded with Alison since she blocked me further shows that my distrust of you is not simply a matter of "Oh, Bwilkins didn't believe poor me." Flyer22 (talk) 12:45, 17 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

And Liz has read some of the backstory, which is why she stated she doesn't "know the entire history of the animosity between you two." Keywords there are "entire history." But to answer Liz, most of the history is there during that second block case. Flyer22 (talk) 13:08, 17 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know the entire history of the animosity between you two does not mean that I can't read the comments on this Talk Page and look at the conversation happening here. I don't know the entire history of any Editor on Wikipedia! I was merely noting that I didn't know about this blocking dispute and was just rendering a comment based on what I was reading on this Talk Page. As for "why on Earth" I would choose to comment, well, I've had interactions with Flyer22 in the past (both positive and not-so-positive), I saw the case on AN/I about the original dispute and I followed the conversation over here. And I comment when I have an opinion to offer. I think that should be easy to understand. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 17:16, 17 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

*sigh - I can state here for the record that I have seen and spoken with Flyer22 on more than one occasion and would like to point out that Flyer22 appears to be 100% female to me. I did not do a karyotype nor did I check her genitalia (these things seem important to some) but she appears to me to be a 20-something woman, so let's try to keep up with our pronouns, mm-kay? If you're not sure you can just use the {{Gender}} template, which will return the correct pronoun - Alison ^❤ 00:55, 18 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that Alison, especially the much-needed humor. As for my age, well, I have noted on my user page that I look significantly younger than I am. Flyer22 (talk) 02:15, 18 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Noting here (especially for the archive) actual personal attacks, brought to us by the lovely John, with responses from me: [1] [2][3][4]. Oh, and assuming good faith is not something that has ever led me to any serious trouble in the past. A lot of, if not most, Wikipedia editors have had a problem assuming good faith at Wikipedia at one point or another. I'm an extremely good judge of character, am right about 98% of the time (as many Wikipedia editors here can attest to, especially when it concerns problematic editors and/or predicting their editing behavior). And I was/am absolutely right about John. Flyer22 (talk) 06:26, 16 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Also sure that I've never called anyone a dumbass on Wikipedia before, and I can't remember a specific case where I have off Wikipedia. But the other editor gave a most excellent response. Flyer22 (talk) 07:59, 16 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Deal with BWilkins too! Cheers! Basket _Feudalist 14:53, 16 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

slow down

You're going to want to slow down and let the ANI thread develop (weekends are slow on WP). You've got a clear consensus at BLP/N. Don't let the discussion be sidetracked by something you post in haste.
Also, if you find an editor's GF effort to help not helpful to you it's generally acceptable to post a polite request they cease posting on your talk page. NE Ent 13:39, 15 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, NE Ent. Yes, I've noticed how slow Wikipedia is on the weekends; I usually like that because it increases the chances that I won't have to deal with any drama here. Today is obviously an exception. And I'm also aware of the talk page aspect you note, except that I usually have not been polite about that matter; it has only been a few times that I have restricted or tried to restrict someone from posting to my talk page and it has usually been in the heat of the moment, due to frustration and/or animosity. Flyer22 (talk) 14:55, 15 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

We say a lot of things in the heat of the moment. I can dig out edits on WP that I have personally looked at and said to my monitor, "yeah, and **** you too". The absolutely essential thing you have got to do is never ever transfer that thought onto a keyboard. All it takes is for one person to see you calling John "stubborn" and "disruptive" ([5]), and people will think "well, it's tit for tat, they're as bad as each other, no action required". I don't think that's your desired outcome from this, is it? Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 13:59, 16 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What I stated here and here about John summarizes my feelings on that. If people want to put me in the same category as John, despite the fact that I was adhering to the WP:Consensus policy while he was violating it, then so be it. Everyone has an opinion, and always will. Having reverted him twice, and referred to him as stubborn and disruptive, among other things, on Wikipedia, is not something that I believe I will regret; in fact, I know that I won't. The way he has communicated, acted, during this is... Sighs. Even speaking of him now frustrates me. This, this (side addition here), this, this, this and this post by others perfectly and/or sufficiently describe my feelings and/or John's disruption. None of the posts there are about "how disruptive Flyer has been during this," except for the one post that was clarified as an error. But again, if people want to categorize me as disruptive during this dispute, then so be it. I admit, however, that I should not let John (or anyone else) bring out the worst of me (which includes hurling any insults); that, however, happens from time to time with humans (even in a working environment), often spontaneously when it does happen. All in all, I appreciate your calm, understanding, neutral approach with respect to both sides. Flyer22 (talk) 16:04, 16 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Someone protests way way too much (modern meaning); but please let it go

All over AN/I I see editors being blocked for ignoring community consensus. But, all of a sudden, when an administrator is against community consensus, edit wars against community consensus, and calls another editor a "dumbass," it's the editor who raises the issue, the "dumbass," who is at fault, and WP:Consensus and WP:Administrators no longer have meaning. It's like a mobile phone company, only one party is held to the contract. Very disappointing.

I don't think John would have blocked you; there is no evidence he has done that before (someone would have provided a diff if he had). I disagree with you about People, it should not be used as a source on Wikipedia. I will discuss that on the BLP sources board.

Try to let this one go. User:John has promised to continue disrupting editing by ignoring community consensus. Other editors will get tired of his disruption and name calling. People will then cite this AN/I report as evidence that he continues to be disruptive.

Please continue bringing differences of consensus to community boards where the issues can be discussed by the community. --(AfadsBad (talk) 04:17, 18 September 2013 (UTC))[reply]

Thank you for your views on all of this, AfadsBad. Yes, I see you debating with the others at the WP:BLP noticeboard. I'm done there on the matter, though, for now anyway because the consensus is the same and there's not much more I can add to that discussion. As for John, I'm still discussing that matter at WP:ANI because others are still discussing the matter with me. If I come across John removing sources and/or the text that goes with it because of his personal dislike of those sources instead of whether or not they have actually been deemed unsuitable by Wikipedia policy and/or the Wikipedia community, I will revert him. I have a few celebrity articles of living people on my watchlist and I won't sit back and let him pull that mess at those articles, and I have good backup at those articles as well. It is especially important not to let him do so on WP:Good and WP:Featured articles. Flyer22 (talk) 04:31, 18 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

On a side note, I corrected your link to the People (magazine) article above in your post. Flyer22 (talk) 04:35, 18 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I think you would be better off dropping it. I keep forgetting about the People (magazine). Thanks. One revert, then talk page, then report, okay? Take care. --(AfadsBad (talk) 04:39, 18 September 2013 (UTC))[reply]

You take care as well. Flyer22 (talk) 05:01, 18 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Despite what I recently said on ANI, I really don't deliberately go around and upset people - honest! It's just that threads tend to generate lots of hot air and drama, and sometimes improving an article can take your mind off it and clear your head a bit. How about, say, taking Romantic orientation to GA, or even B class? Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 10:18, 18 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think you meant badly, but Flyer22 tried to deal with the issue as a member of an editing comunity, got called a dumbass by one admin, and now has two other admins really going after her, so it might seem a bit unfair to suggest any of the admins dropped the stick, when it looks like Flyer22 is the dead horse. However, I think you meant well, and I think taking an article to GA would be more fun than continuing to be beat, and I hope Flyer22 will take your suggestion, and I thank you for making it, trying to do something positive. --(AfadsBad (talk) 10:54, 18 September 2013 (UTC))[reply]

I can't emphasise this enough - Flyer22 is a good, nay, excellent contributor to the encyclopedia. Somewhere on this talk page I gave her a barnstar for some of the GA work she'd done, and I stand totally by that. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 11:07, 18 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, that's why it bothers me the way she is treated, and I assumed that is the motive for your efforts here, that you see her value to the encyclopedia.. --(AfadsBad (talk) 11:19, 18 September 2013 (UTC))[reply]

Ritchie333, this reply to you was not meant as a jab at you. Well, maybe a bit, LOL. As you know, I was/am simply frustrated with this matter. If anything, I'd rather you close that thread now than for me to be further subjected to RegentsPark's odd logic. And I'm intentionally not linking his name in this paragraph, because, whether he is now watching my talk page (by means of a WP:Watchlist or manually), I don't want him alerted via WP:Echo that I or anyone else has mentioned him here, as if I welcome him to defend John on this talk page; I most certainly don't.

As for working on articles, the Romantic orientation article is a waste of space; it shouldn't exist for a number of reasons (such as the fact that sexual orientation is also about romantic feelings), and you can see similar comments from me about the existence of that article in its edit history. My brother saw these changes to that article and stated that he almost reverted it and/or almost edited it as an IP (our real IP address of course, given past problems with him using a WP:Proxy), that what a terrible copyediting job it was, that it added WP:Original research, and that he still plans to speak with the editor who did that copyediting job. I don't blame him, though it is significantly best that he stay away from my editing area. Alison may have to remind him of that, but she keeps an eye on things regarding us. I won't be touching that Romantic orientation article any further, and have already set my sights on bringing the Vagina article to WP:GA standards (which is also noted in the GA section on my user page). With that article included, there are two other articles that I want to bring to WP:GA status, at least before I retire from this site (if I do).

AfadsBad, thank you for the support, kind words and compliments. It was NeilN that John called a dumbass, by the way. I don't doubt that, offscreen or off-Wikipedia, he's called me one, among other things, however; but I'm certainly not focusing on any thoughts he may have with regard to me. Flyer22 (talk) 12:45, 18 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, after our discussion at BLPN AfadsBad might agree with John's assessment :-) :-) --NeilN ^{talk to me} 12:56, 18 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

lol. I disagree with you, and you are annoying me, but I do not consider you a dumbass. Your arguments, maybe, but not you! Now get over there and define what can be used from People.

These diffs are mind-numbing trying to read them to follow a conversation, Flyer22. Vagina should be an FA! Great GA choice, article is awful. --(AfadsBad (talk) 13:03, 18 September 2013 (UTC))[reply]

It doesn't matter what article you choose take to GA, as long as it's nothing as mind numbingly dull and pointless as Texas Recreational Road 8, it's all good for the encyclopedia. Vagina isn't really in my area of expertise or interest (to put it as mildly as possible :-/), but still a worthy subject to improve, I would have thought. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 13:55, 18 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The road articles are mind numbing, but they are very useful, and I appreciate editors who do gois work on articles that would knock me out. I travel for work and like to check out Wikipedia road articles before I go, very useful. --(AfadsBad (talk) 14:16, 18 September 2013 (UTC))[reply]

So John has obviously followed me to the Sexual orientation article after my interaction with this IP. He's either watching this talk page (note that I'm not watching his) or is checking in on my contributions. Well, if he starts WP:HOUNDING/WP:STALKING (which I do not put past him, given some of the inappropriate behavior/comments I've seen from him), I will be reporting. Usually, one stays clear of someone they clearly do not get along with. That he has sought possible further interaction with me (it's seeking because he knows that I watch/occasionally edit that article) is nothing short of suspicious. Flyer22 (talk) 12:24, 20 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

More on John's behavior

Note: I've started this section; it is simply documentation here on my talk page of John's continued less-than-desired behavior.

Those at WP:ANI or elsewhere asserting that John would not have blocked me were wrong. This is an instance where I feel the need to state "Told you so." Not too long after my unpleasant interactions with John, he blocked someone that he was in a dispute with; that person was unblocked because of the rationale that John was WP:INVOLVED. Like me, that editor made an observation that John is on a power trip. Clearly, the Daily Mail is not a good source to use, especially for biographies of living persons, but there are still some experienced Wikipedia editors who are iffy on its use and therefore John blocking that editor for his or her repeated reversions of him on that matter was inappropriate. If repeatedly reverting the editor is generally considered prevention of a WP:BLP violation, then I wouldn't classify that as WP:INVOLVED; I wouldn't because reversions of WP:BLP violations are, for example, exempt from WP:3RR. A different administrator took the matter to Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard (WP:AN) not only because of the block, but because John has continued to remove sources and the text the sources support...even though others may not categorize such sources as tabloids. From what I see, however, John has mostly continued to remove the Daily Mail. The Wikipedia article on it calls it a tabloid newspaper, but the word tabloid is WP:Pipelinked with the Tabloid (newspaper format) article; that article makes it clear that "tabloid format" does not necessarily mean "tabloid" and that many valid newspapers use that format. Either way, the administrator who took the matter to WP:AN removed the report from WP:AN and has been discussing the matter on John's talk page. Flyer22 (talk) 06:41, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There is also this, this and this showing John refusing to drop the silly stick and to stop disrupting Wikipedia at just about every turn. The last diff-link documents the worst case of it (showing the absolutely ridiculous lengths he will go to in order to try and get his way and that he does not respect community consensus one bit when that consensus opposes his views). Flyer22 (talk) 21:58, 25 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Congratulations!

The Bronze STiki Barnstar of Merit

Congratulations, Flyer22! You're receiving this barnstar of merit because you recently crossed the 5,000 classification threshold using STiki.

We thank you both for your contributions to Wikipedia at-large and your use of the tool.

We hope you continue your ascent up the leaderboard and stay in touch at the talk page. Thank you and keep up the good work! West.andrew.g (developer) and -- ^t numbermaniac^c 05:08, 19 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Jetsunma Ahkon Lhamo vandalism repair, thank you so much.

Just wanted to say thanks for your help in removing the ongoing vandalism of this page. It's turning into daily upkeep with a vandal adding irrelevant references to The Exorcist and demons. Sigh. Longchenpa (talk) 07:32, 19 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I saw your comment earlier, but am just now replying because I was too sleepy to reply earlier (though not too sleepy to make a revert or two). You are welcome. And since you are having the type of trouble you are having at that article, I might put it on my WP:Watchlist. Keep in mind that you can also request that the article be protected at WP:Requests for page protection. Flyer22 (talk) 14:01, 19 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Chuck Cotter facts

I hope this doesn't disappoint you too much, but the items on User:Flyer22#Favorite reads on Wikipedia aren't original. They're part of the large collection of Chuck Norris facts, merely re-attributed. --GRuban (talk) 19:24, 19 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

LOL!! No, not disappointed. I added that some time back. Like the top of my user page currently states, "Parts of my user page were created in 2007/2008, and I'm either too lazy to drastically redesign that text or have become attached to that text in a way." Flyer22 (talk) 19:36, 19 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

the subject, talk

I am sorry for talking to you bad, but that idea still angers me. Anyway, the real reason I came to this page again, is the gender card.

Yes that's right, gender card. I don't know you were a female or male, I just want to get the record straight. I honestly don't call anyone uses he or she, and I use you and variations of online. I also didn't honestly think of what your gender was male or female, and didn't take that into account insisting you were sexist. Part of the gender neutral movement of English, I just want to make clear that while you are female, and I am, I will continue to use third person when referring to you. I never, in my history of wikiepdia, referred to using he or her. I have been on Wikipedia since 2008, but all this time I never created an account. During this time, I used a verity of ATMC IP addresses, as they are dynamic. As they change when we have a power outage, which happens occasionally, I don't have a lot of history on me. --209.188.62.150 (talk) 04:25, 20 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Pedro Passos Coelho

OK, he's the worst asshole in Europe, at least, but I've finished. --Nmgscp74 (talk) 4:40, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Well, as you know, a different editor reverted you on this. And this type of editing, which I reverted you on, is also inappropriate...very inappropriate; continue to WP:Vandalize, and you will be blocked...temporarily or indefinitely. Flyer22 (talk) 04:53, 20 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"Good faith" reversion via STiki

I recently edited the Komi Grammar page and found that you reverted my edit as a "good faith" reversion. In reading the STiki page, I notice that Good-faith Reverts are for edits which are "clearly unconstructive, but lack the intent and malice that characterizes vandalism." My edit was not clearly unconstructive, and as such I have since undone your reversion and provided a citation for my original edit. Please do not hesitate to ask for citations!

I also cannot help but notice that your reversion count using STiki has gone from 1,000 STiki reversions on 05:41, 10 September 2013 to 5,000 reversions on 05:08, 19 September 2013. I am aware I do not have a user account, but that does not mean my contributions are as such "clearly unconstructive." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.62.165.84 (talk)

Hello, IP. Your edit (before you reverted while adding a source) initially looked unconstructive to me. And, yes, I know about the revert via WP:Echo. Notice that I did not revert you again. I don't see what my STiki count has to do with this, unless you are implying that I must be wrongly reverting a lot of people; I'm not, considering that I usually double check my edits (whether adding additions or reverting). I apologize for making a mistake in your case. Flyer22 (talk) 05:38, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Mailed you some pretty private matters

Hello, Flyer22 Frozen. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

(do not tell anyone what its contents is) --Lesbiangirl123 (talk) 11:14, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I likely won't be reading it. Seriously, as it will likely lead to some debate and your logic is sufficiently odd to me. And per Wikipedia:POSTEMAIL#Private correspondence, I certainly would not reveal the contents of it at Wikipedia anyway. Flyer22 (talk) 11:29, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It really does not contain anything bad, and no criticism. It contains... nothing related to sexual I was discussing. It is related to my life, problems with it, and what I do. You have to really read it to get your understanding, and I really want you to read it. it's to sensitive to talk about, and it is kind of long, but it's just for you. I cannot say what it is publicly, as I don't want nobody but you to read it. --Lesbiangirl123 (talk) 11:49, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I will read it, and may get back to you on that. Are you sure that it was a good idea to post the personal things you did on your user page? In addition to the good or decent people we have at this site, we have some really mean-spirited people here as well (as is likely the case for any site). As someone who knows what it is like to be depressed, even severely depressed, I somewhat understand how you feel; though I'm not sure that it ever got to the point of major depressive disorder, it did get to the point where I tried to harm myself after "a trigger" here at Wikipedia (which is well documented during the first time I was blocked from editing Wikipedia). That wasn't the first time I've tried to physically harm myself, however. I apologize if I contributed to your feeling bad in any way. Depression is a tricky thing because almost anything can trigger it (bad things, or perceived bad things, especially of course), even when you think you have a good grasp on it (your mental state). A person or incident can trigger the return of the depression even when that was not the intention. I obviously had no intention of making you feel worse. And again, I apologize if I did. There's not much I can do about how Wikipedia is supposed to work; I follow the Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines as best I can (which is usually a good or great "best"). Flyer22 (talk) 16:47, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

(stalking) I'll give you my (totally unsolicited) advice. Change your username (see WP:RENAME for how to do it) to something more neutral that doesn't suggest at your sexuality in any way shape or form whatsoever. PinkAmpersand's in a similar position to you (afaik) and he does alright. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 11:31, 25 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Newbie

Happy to. Hopefully you can keep an eye on him elsewhere and we can nudge him toward learning Wikipedia policies and guidelines. --Tenebrae (talk) 15:19, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I'll help you with that editor at the Mariah Carey article. As for keeping an eye on him or her elsewhere, I'm not sure about that; the editor is not a very active editor and I'm certain that he or she is the type who does not care/will never care about Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines. However, if I see you explaining such policies and guidelines to the editor, like you recently did, I will assist. Flyer22 (talk) 15:29, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hegel problem

Flyer22: You removed my note of warning posted on a pernicious "thesis-antithesis-synthesis" page[6] posted in support of over 3,000 words (by my count) of pollution dumped onto the G.W.F. Hegel page[7] by I-don't-know-whom. How would you suggest I flag this content as highly speculative and deriving from a single author (who was an economist, not a philosopher, I have discovered)? Those hoping to learn something about Hegel should not be exposed to this controversial speculation as if it were true and widely-accepted, when, in fact, it has been refuted. Thanks. JBurke01 (talk) 02:33, 25 September 2013‎

Yes, I reverted you on this for the reasons stated in that WP:Edit summary. You can flag that material by adding a Template:Dubious to it. For further information on tackling the accuracy/inaccuracy of content, see Wikipedia:Accuracy dispute#Disputed statement. Flyer22 (talk) 02:54, 25 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

deleted info

I deleted the page at the request of the person it was about. Zzebra138 (talk) 02:34, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi flyer22, in pwbradley07, can I please ask why you keep undoing my edits to the Kippax Knights wiki page???? All the changes I have had are true to many locals in our village. My dad & grandfather played for Kippax, I myself play for Kippax, a pride myself on kippax's history in rugby league. Many locals saw my changes and said they were as accurate as ever, and illustrated our history in good order, so I don't see how Iv violated any codes. I feel you were wrong to undo my changes. Thank you for reading this. P W Bradley. Pwbradley071178 (talk) 22:25, 7 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Pwbradley071178, I'm not the only one who has reverted you at that article. Though that article is not on my WP:Watchlist, I have reverted you twice, on two different days, because your additions mostly are not in encyclopedic tone (see WP:TONE), are otherwise formatted improperly and are unsourced (see WP:Verifiability).

And remember to sign your username at the end of the comments you make on Wikipedia talk pages. All you have to do to sign your username is simply type four tildes (~), like this: ~~~~. I signed your username for you above. Flyer22 (talk) 23:30, 7 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You deleted my changes to Brian McCann (baseball)

Dear Flyer22,

Why don't you like fun?

63.139.2.226 (talk) 13:45, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Casus Belli Edit

Thank you for your insight. That sentence was not constructive as I forgot to include a very important part. It should have read " The expression is often uttered whilst observing failing Pakistani restaurants through binoculars from the 5th floor of an Upper West Side apartment. I will change it immediately and then there will be no need for you to edit again.

THANKS!!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stanthecaddy (talk • contribs) 16:23, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sarcasm will get you nowhere. Your edit looks like vandalism to me, either version, unless you mean the word falling instead of failing. But I wounder in what way falling would make sense unless the restaurants are being knocked down. Therefore, your addition, if you readd it, will be reverted again, either by me or someone else. Flyer22 (talk) 16:34, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sockpuppet of محبةالكتب

Hello, I saw your notes in the edit summaries for the Blond article. I also thought it was likely that the IP 41.96.x.x is a sock of محبةالكتب. The edits are of a similar nature but not exactly the same so I'm not really sure. The intent seems to be the same but usually the socks I run across just keep making the exact same edits instead of trying to change it up. Editor Samer154 is also making edits from a similar position (a kind of anti-Western thing, maybe?) but again there's some room for doubt. But given the grammatical issues and the general tone of the edits they do seem to be quacking rather loudly. SQGibbon (talk) 13:42, 27 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I was going to state I completely agree with you, including that there is room for doubt, and that it's because of this that I am only 99.9% sure that they are all the same person. But even if we were to state that IP 41.96 is not User:محبةالكتب, one thing is for certain: IP 41.96 IP is Samer154; compare the 41.96.66.186 and Samer154 contributions. Samer154 also changed it up here and here after I reverted him or her as an IP here and here. And all of them, User:محبةالكتب, the 41.96 IPs and Samer154, write in the same broken English way, with the same inappropriate capitalization; compare here and here. Also compare use of the word dear here and here. WP:DUCK. User:محبةالكتب has been WP:Socking as Samer154 for some time. User:محبةالكتب registered as an account in May 2012; Samer154 as an account in May 2013. I'm actually 100% certain that these are all the same person. User:محبةالكتب simply isn't so dumb as to keep making the same exact edits that got him or her indefinitely blocked, but is still prone to be caught on socking matters (like now). Flyer22 (talk) 14:47, 27 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yep, looking more closely I'm with you that it's 100% certain they are all the same person. The weird use of "Dear" was the final straw. SQGibbon (talk) 15:25, 27 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

School Project on Verizon FiOS

Hi. I am currently working on a school project, and I was wondering if you could provide my group with some assistance. I noticed you gave some assistance to some of my colleagues who are working on the Wikipedia page on Marissa Cooper. Our group is working on the Verizon FiOS page, and we are looking for some advice. Would you be able to take a look at our talk page and comment on something that we should improve upon? Are our suggestions good for the topic or is there anything else we should add/remove? If possible, can you comment on the talk page for Verizon FiOS? We appreciate your help! Andrew.prafder (talk) 22:37, 27 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Andrew.prafder, there isn't much I can offer with regard to your request. One thing I can offer is to state that the second paragraph in my aforementioned post at the Marissa Cooper talk page obviously applies to all Wikipedia articles. I'll post that same paragraph at the Verizon FiOS talk page. Flyer22 (talk) 01:11, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Marina Oswald Porter

Hello. Yesterday I read the article on Marina Oswald Porter. I noticed that it stated that the "backyard photos" taken by Marina of Lee Harvey Oswald were manipulated. This is a viewpoint held by fringe conspiracy theorists that has been thoroughly disproven. Every reputable expert who has examined those photos has verified them as being genuine, including those consulted by the Warren Commision and the HSCA. The article also stated that Marina told the Warren Commision that she had taken a "single" photo with the word "single" emphasized for some reason. In fact, she initially told the WC that she only remembered taking one photo, then later said she may have taken two. She later said she probably did take all four. She told the FBI after the assassination that she had taken all four. Again, only fringe conspiracy theorists claim that Marina only took one photo. The source given for this information is Robert Groden, a discredited conspiracy theorist who was torn to shreds when he testified for the defense in the OJ Simpson trial when he testified that photos of Simpson were manipulated. There was no disclaimer regarding the comments informing the reader that the claims of photo manipulation by conspiracy theorists have been disproven by experts, the comments are simply presented as undisputed fact. I removed the spurious statements and you reverted my changes claiming it to be vandalism. If you are going to present the claims of fringe conspiracy theorists as fact, why not change your 9/11 article to state unequivocally that Bush was behind it? Why not change Barack Obama's birthplace to Kenya, or for that matter remove Elvis' date of death since some believe he is still alive?

Please get rid of the conspiracy related nonsense. Or, if you are going to present it, at least indicate that the info is strictly the view of conspiracy theorists and is not supported by the mainstream. This is about the fourth JFK assassination related article I have tried to clean up after conspiracy theorists have edited it to present their outlandish allegations as fact. 122.150.255.112 (talk) 00:09, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, IP. I wasn't presenting anything as fact. I reverted you because you removed sourced material and changed the wording without providing a reason for having done so. If you are editing the article properly, I don't mind. Flyer22 (talk) 01:11, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Refactored edit

Hi Flyer22. I was notified of your use of my quote, and I appreciate that you found it useful. I did notice that the diff you used is not to the original location, so I took the liberty of substituting the original diff. Please look at my edit and the edit summary. I hope you don't mind. I don't usually edit other people's comments, but I felt this would improve the content in a manner which you would find to be okay. If not, please accept my apology and just revert my edit. -- Brangifer (talk) 02:07, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No problem, per this and this. Flyer22 (talk) 02:14, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Capitalism page change

Hi flyer. I was undoing someone's "rm test edit" by re-bolding one of the headers. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bojo1498 (talk • contribs) 21:32, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Bojo1498, your edit was incorrect. MilesMoney knew what he was doing; this is because headers, at least the standard headers that are used (such as the one MilesMoney was targeting), don't need bolding. That's why I reverted you, before noting in that article's edit history and at your talk page that you must have made a mistake.

Also, remember to sign your user name when commenting on talk pages. As you can see above, a bot signed it for you. Flyer22 (talk) 21:47, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for the miscommunication... I didn't realize exactly what he did. Thanks!--Bojo1498 (talk) 22:08, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Changes to My Brest Friend's Girl

On the page for My Best Friend's Girl (2008 film), I recently changed the name "Brad Garret" to its proper spelling, Brad Garrett. You changed it back because it was "not constructive". Why is it not constructive to change the name to its proper spelling? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.221.159.135 (talk) 05:25, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, IP. I saw your message earlier, but I didn't reply at that time because I was sleepy and rested for a few hours (though intermittently reverting), and later because I became busy with some edits. But here is the revert in question, from a number of days ago. You are obviously correct that your edit was not unconstructive. The only reasons I can think that I reverted you and gave you that warning are either because I accidentally hit the revert option or because your edit seemed wrong to me because it looked like you were adding an extra t as a test or as an action of vandalism. Considering that I hardly ever hit the revert button by accident, I'm certain that the latter is why I reverted you. Because you placed the t outside of the bracket, which is not correct formatting, that also factors into the revert (having signaled "test or vandalism" to me). I apologize for my mistake on that, have fixed the matter (the text) and will note this on your talk page. Flyer22 (talk) 10:24, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your help with The Wachowskis' issues in The Matrix article.

Thank you for informing Cecildeed for us about edit warring on The Matrix article. Good job noting that he/she is engaging in edit warring. Some people are either meat/sockpuppets, clueless, in denial that trans were once male, or they want to feel important about knowing that Larry is Lana now - forget the fact that The Matrix WAS directed by Larry Wachowski. Active contributors on that article constantly battle this for ages, and it's nice to see some fresh help. I sincerely thank you. Anthonydraco (talk) 15:39, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You are welcome. As you have seen, during that same comment I also warned the editor about deceptive edit summaries. It appears that after I reverted one of those deceptive edit summaries, Grayfell, who I think watches the Clitoris article with me, caught on to the editor's deceptive edit summaries and tackled two of his or her edits thus far. One is mentioned in my aforementioned message to Cecildeed; the other is seen here. Four things, among various things, I cannot stand about this site (all four things seeming to apply to Cecildeed) are those who use deceptive edit summaries, those who edit based solely on their opinion and/or advocacy (disrespecting WP:Verifiability, WP:Neutrality and the WP:Due weight aspect of WP:Neutrality), those who intentionally disrespect WP:Consensus without a valid WP:Ignore all rules reason to do so...and those who fail to reliably source their article content (especially if that content is contentious). I will only tolerate (and not for long) newbies placing the WP:Burden on me and/or other Wikipedia editors; editors who have been editing this site for some time should know better than to do that. I don't know if Cecildeed is disrespecting WP:Consensus on The Wachowskis matter, but he or she obviously needs to stop doing that if he or she is. WP:Consensus is one of our least respected policies, probably less respected than WP:Civil, and that needs to stop. What is the point of building consensus, if people can just disregard it at any given moment? People are back at Square 1 when that happens. Consensus can change, but unless it has changed...it had better be respected unless there is valid cause to ignore it. Flyer22 (talk) 16:21, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The Politics of...Hair Color?

I do not know why but there seems to be a certain vandalism or subtextual POV pushing in articles about hair color. I noticed you addressed Blond (though there is still some odd information on that piece) but 41.96.66.186 did some unconstructive edits to Black hair a week ago...can you use your rollback powers to bring it back to the last good version?
I really don't understand why hair color is seen as some kind of point of pride or an anatomical aspect that reflects on ones ethnic or national pride. Thanks. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:12, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

For what it's worth, Geolocate says that IPs 41.96.0.0 - 41.96.255.255 are from this city in Algeria. Not sure if this explains anything, more of a curiosity. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:19, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yep, there is an odd focus and especially bias that some editors have concerning the hair color articles. See the current discussions at Talk:Brown hair as well. WP:Rollback can't be used to revert an editor once a different editor has edited the article after that one; what I mean by this is that since Samer154 edited the Black hair article after he or she edited on the aforementioned IP range, this caused an intermediate edit (a block) to me reverting using the rollback tool. So what I had to do to revert in this case was click on the version of the article that exists immediately before those edits, which is this one, then click the edit option for that version and save that version. Some long-term Wikipedia editors still don't know about reverting that way. Here is the revert. However, that IP range/Samer154 is likely to revert my edit and/or add more of the same material. Therefore, he or she will likely need to be reported as a sockpuppet, per the #Sockpuppet of محبةالكتب discussion above. Flyer22 (talk) 23:08, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking the time to explain this all to me, Flyer22. I didn't understand about the rollback tool and some (file mover?) are still ambiguous to me. The motivations about changes on this topic but, in the end, the only thing that matters is what kind of shape the article is in. Thanks for looking into this. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:50, 2 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Certainly was no problem explaining the reverting matter or commenting on the politics, Liz. You're welcome. Flyer22 (talk) 23:58, 2 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Help with Marissa Cooper - The OC: Class Project

Hi Flyer22. Thanks so much for continuing to edit the Wikipedia page we are working on for Marissa Cooper. I'm here to ask you a question regarding citations and references. When following the guidelines, my additions appear in red text. I believe that you corrected the issue we encountered in the "Character's Exit" section. Now, we are facing this issue under references. Do you have any suggestions for us? Thank you for helping us - we really appreciate the time and effort you're putting into this page. JLieberman31 (talk) 18:35, 1 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I see. I was in the process of replying on the talk page. Look there for more replies from me. And it was actually me who messed up the reference your team added to the Character's exit section; I then tweaked it. Flyer22 (talk) 18:39, 1 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Going back to reference formatting, yes this attempt was a little wrong, but was mostly correct; it simply had stray parts of reference templates included. You are correct that I fixed that, though it took me a few edits to fix all of the reference formatting in that section because I hadn't initially noticed completely what was wrong the first time I attempted the fix.[8][9][10][11] And here is the tweak I was referring to. Flyer22 (talk) 19:08, 1 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ok... Sex positions

Thanks for correcting me, but I'm wondering about sources. The sources I can see in the article only mention penetrative relations. Regarding the pic and edit summary, I think the pic makes it non-neutral, as it represents a comparatively small group in the lead (in effect elevating them to a position not attained in sourcing or practise of the act). 2.102.187.114 (talk) 14:21, 2 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Linking this to show your previous discussion post to my talk page (which that link shows that I reverted with a response). I also amended this heading by adding "Sex positions" to it so that it is clear what this section is about. In the future, consider taking such matters to the article talk pages. I personally prefer that article discussions that should clearly be had on the article talk pages take place there. Do I want that done in this case now? No, because there is not much to resolve regarding these disputes between the two of us. So addressing your points:

Regarding the Doggy style article, oral sex can obviously be penetrative (and is sometimes considered sexual intercourse in WP:Reliable sources, especially if fellatio is the type of oral sex being discussed). As for sourcing, I'll take care of that at a later date, but think of how dominance and submission may employ a doggy style position without sexual penetration taking place. Or how frottage may involve the position. The Doggy style article is very poor, as are many sex anatomy and sexual topic articles at this site. I am but one person tackling some of these articles when I am in the mood to do so and have good time to do so. Some of these articles, such as Snowballing (sexual practice) and Felching, I have no interest in editing.

As for the picture of the male couple at the Missionary position article, I suppose you mean WP:Undue weight (especially the "giving equal validity" part of it), which is why the heterosexual aspect of the missionary position is mentioned first in the lead. It's difficult to find WP:Reliable sources that do not only describe that sex position as a heterosexual act or only attribute it to heterosexuality in some way. But sources describing it as an act used by gay and lesbian couples, such as this one currently in the lead, or by couples of any sex/gender combination, do exist. Before I edited that article, there was no mention that the missionary position is used by gay and lesbian pairings; see this past discussion about anal sex and the missionary position. To me, adding that picture to the lead was adding neutrality without violating WP:Undue weight; that is why I responded to you the way I did here, here and here. After all, many people (mostly heterosexual people) have no idea that anal sex can be performed in the missionary position (Googling the topic shows that), or that, yes, some gay men perform anal sex in that position. Then again, too many people think that all gay men have anal sex; a common misconception. People are that uncreative on topics regarding sexual activity that they cannot even imagine something as simple as anal sex in the missionary position. I'm used to people removing that male couple image due to obvious bias, such as here even when it was placed lower in a section specifically about anal sex; so to see you remove it from the lead was more of the same in my eyes. Furthermore, men who have sex with men (MSM), which additionally includes those who don't identify as gay or bisexual, are not a small group; I'm not even sure that, given the MSM and down-low factors (see the what the CDC states in the HIV/AIDS section of the Wikipedia down-low article), we can accurately state that men who have sex with men are a "comparatively small group" when compared to men who only have sex with women. However, perhaps with regard to the missionary position, they are a "comparatively small group" because it is likely that heterosexual couples practice that position significantly more than male couples. Either way, I felt, and still feel, that the image of the two men is more relevant to the lead than where you placed it; it's barely relevant to the section you placed it in, and before I combined it with the tribadism image moments ago, it couldn't fit in the section that discusses anal sex. But I don't care very much about opposing you on its position in the lead; that's why I moved on instead of reverting you again and/or taking this matter to the article's talk page. Flyer22 (talk) 17:16, 2 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the response. You seem to be an expert on Wikipedia regarding these topics (without the POV problems of many editors there), so if you think that there are plenty of reliable sourcing saying that then I'll leave it (though if it's okay with you I'll change it to say "some regard...", as it seems far from universally accepted.

I appreciate how the pic would be informative to unaware readers. However, I think the sentence in the lead (first paragraph too) does it enough without raising concerns over undue weight. 2.102.187.114 (talk) 02:40, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What part of the text do you suggest "some regard"? What wording are you proposing? I generally stay away from such wording (unless I can't) per WP:Weasel words. Flyer22 (talk) 02:52, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

True, though without sourcing it's sometimes inevitable. Let me know what you think of that change and others (not an injunction to discuss here without reverting me). 2.102.187.114 (talk) 02:55, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Also note my edit to the baseball metaphor article. Perhaps you have access to the source that either validates or disputes my edit (or you don't but agree/disagree with me that the points there mismatch). 2.102.187.114 (talk) 03:10, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding your change, sexual penetration that may not be regarded as sexual intercourse (such as the use of anal beads between sex partners) may also take place in the doggy style position. That's another reason why I included "or other sexual activities." I meant it when I stated that a variety of sexual activities are practiced in that position (the same applies to the missionary position). And the doggy style position is also called the rear-entry position, as the article states (something I added earlier this month); this position is not limited to being on all fours; see this, this, this (click the "Standing, Rear Entry" option at the side) and this layman source for examples. I haven't added those to the article because they are poor sources for an encyclopedia on this topic, and, like I stated, I will add scholarly sources to that article at a later date. So that is why I partially reverted you, but with tweaks (including having fixed the WP:Weasel wording).

As for this edit to the Baseball metaphors for sex article, no, I have not accessed those sources yet.

As for POV problems, even I occasionally get accused of it with regard to sex topics; I've been accused of heterosexism and of having a gay agenda. Such accusations seem to come with the territory. The former comes from the fact that I often keep the WP:Undue weight aspect of WP:Neutral in mind. The latter comes from simply being WP:Neutral or giving more weight to a same-sex matter because sources give more weight to that matter. And on that note, I have to ask: Are you someone I have interacted with before at this site? Your style of editing, not to mention having followed me to the Baseball metaphors for sex article, somewhat reminds me of a Wikipedia editor I'm familiar with. Flyer22 (talk) 04:05, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Okay I'm fine with that then. I edit pretty infrequently, usually in short bursts. I've seen you around (hence I know you you're pretty NPOV) but we've never had any direct interaction. 2.102.187.114 (talk) 12:20, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oh and I didn't follow you to that article to check your edits. I noticed it in your contributions and decided I'd like to read the article. 2.102.187.114 (talk) 12:22, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. And I've seen you elsewhere as well (on the same IP range, but with different IPs) at a non-sexual topic (well, mostly non-sexual).

Take care. We are likely to cross paths again on this site. You know how people say "small world" in cases where they meet a person they already know in an unlikely setting or somewhere despite the odds of having done so seeming miniscule because the world is (supposedly) big? That's what Wikipedia can feel like. In the case of crossing paths with you again, however, it may be because we have somewhat similar editing interests (not just sexual topics). Flyer22 (talk) 12:36, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I'm always surprised how often I see the same people considering there are over 4 million articles on this site. 2.102.187.114 (talk) 12:53, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

your reversion of edit using merriam webster as lead in Circumcision article

Circumcision is a cultural phenomenon which is also sometimes a medical procedure. Therefore your substituting a medical source over the lead USA dictionary plain english definition may be misguided .--— ⦿⨦⨀Tumadoireacht ^Talk/_Stalk 21:16, 2 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Tumadoireacht. No, my revert of you at that article is not misguided. As WP:MEDRS has been explained to you various times at the Circumcision article, I would simply be repeating myself to reiterate why such edits are not appropriate. Some other medical procedures are cultural phenomenons as well, but we use medical sourcing first and foremost for them. WP:MEDRS is very clear about when using non-medical sources is acceptable, such as when relaying cultural aspects that don't require WP:MEDRS-compliant sourcing. Flyer22 (talk) 23:15, 2 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The reasons you have outlined are those for which a plain english initial description is preferable. That a small cabal of other editors agrees with you, and impedes article development, is not really relevant and your feeling the need to mention it further diminishes your argument. You duck the fact neatly that Circumcision is PRIMARILY a cultural phenomenon and secondarily sometimes a medical proceedure i. Many circumcisons of both men and women are performed by religious or tribal personnel. The forced circumcisions of adults in Europe and in Africa, which we have so far found ourselves unable to mention are often performed by persons with no training whatsoever. So the "medical" argument to oppose plain english description of the cutting off of the skin at the head of the infant or adult human male penis is a curious phenomenon in itself and worthy of re-examination by its faithful and by others.--— ⦿⨦⨀Tumadoireacht ^Talk/_Stalk 08:26, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Tumadoireacht, this type of thing was extensively explained to you in the Reversion of edits to the "Adverse" section mentioning deaths and injury to children in NYC, Africa and low rate of complications in a large cohort in Israel discussion. You disagree with those arguments that are against yours on this matter, and my support of them. Noted. But I have nothing more to state to you about it. Flyer22 (talk) 14:30, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment

i dont know to talk to you but i had guests over that were on the computer, so i am deeply sorry for any problems they caused — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.180.77.12 (talk • contribs)

I'm sorry for the table thing. I didn't think it would actually post. sorry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:50C0:F200:F2B4:79FF:FE17:4E3F (talk) 04:09, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Congratulations!

The Silver STiki Barnstar of Merit

Congratulations, Flyer22! You're receiving this barnstar of merit because you recently crossed the 10,000 classification threshold using STiki.

We thank you both for your contributions to Wikipedia at-large and your use of the tool.

We hope you continue your ascent up the leaderboard and stay in touch at the talk page. Thank you and keep up the good work! West.andrew.g (developer) and -- ^t numbermaniac ^c 05:11, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Moon Festival edit

Hello Flyer22,

I edited the page on Moon Festivals and removed the alternate name Mooncake Festival. The page has reverted because "it did not appear constructive." Sincere apologies; there is no offence meant. This is the first time (and probably the only time) that I tried editing anything on Wikipedia as this is the only entry my organisation feels strongly about.

We still maintain that the term is incorrect. Is there a way to just remove the term? This is becoming some sort of a cycle: some people started using Mooncake Festival, and they started thinking it was correct. And then it was put on Wikipedia, and then more and more people think it is correct. The closest analogy that I could think of is the American holiday of Thanksgiving where the traditional food is turkey. Just as it will never be and should never be called the turkey festival (which will connote that the turkey is being celebrated), a festival that celebrates the Moon and the Mid-Autumn harvest should not be called after a cake.

The entry affects all the users who want to find out about the Mid-Autumn Moon Festival. More and more people (students, stores, corporations, media) are using Mooncake Festival - still doesn't make the term correct.

Thank you and I hope you understand the dilemma :-)

Bahaytsinoy (talk) 10:23, 3 October 2013 (UTC)Meah Ang See, Director, Bahay Tsinoy, museum of Chinese in Philippine life[reply]

Hello, Bahaytsinoy. These are the edits you are referring to, made on September 5th of this year to the Mid-Autumn Festival article. I don't have that article on my WP:Watchlist, so, after reverting you, I'm not sure why I kept visiting that article to revert others. It seems that rather than having it on my WP:Watchlist for a brief time, I kept coming across it on WP:STiki. Anyway, I reverted you because, as the aforementioned edit shows, you removed a WP:Reliable source without providing a valid reason for having done so and added text that is not WP:TONE-compliant. The text "to join in the fun!", in your own words, is not encyclopedic because it's opinionated to assert that the matter in question is fun, which violates WP:Neutrality, and the same (with regard to being non-encyclopedic) applies to adding an exclamation mark; if those things were a part of a quote (put in quotation marks) and coming from a WP:Reliable source placed against it, then they would be an appropriate addition. The edit in question doesn't show you having removed "Mooncake Festival." I don't care if you remove "Mooncake Festival," as long as you do it without invalidly removing a WP:Reliable source/adding text that is not WP:TONE-compliant/leaving the remaining text with a grammatical error due to the removal. Flyer22 (talk) 11:39, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Changes to Wael Hallaq

Dear Flyer22,

Apologies if I have been the cause for any confusion with regard to recent changes to the Wael Hallaq article. I am not an expert Wikipedia editor, having only authored and edited this one article. I will now detail and explain my changes here, so that we might resolve the issue.

1) the identification "non-Muslim Arab" in the opening sentence, though true, has the effect of stereotyping Wael Hallaq and his academic contributions. Although the fact that he is a non-Muslim and an Arab may be of interest to some readers, stating the fact at the outset gives it undue precedence; this wrong emphasis is a disservice to the living subject of the article and to the reader, and, as I have said, comes off as a an attempt to stereotype. Imagine, for example, if the article on Reza Aslan opened with "Reza Aslan is a non-Christian Persian," or the article on Muhammad Ali opened with "Muhammad Ali is a non-Christian African."

2) For the above reason, I chose to remove "non-Muslim Arab" (which, along with its citation, had been added by another editor), and to insert the term "non-Muslim" into the third sentence of the second paragraph. In this way, the fact may be known to those who, for whatever reason, deem it important, but not in such an essentializing and stereotyping manner. As for "Arab," so much should be evident through the combination of his name and birthplace; it need not be stated at the outset as a defining characteristic--the effect, again, is stereotyping.

3) As for my choice of the word "prominent" to replace "non-Muslim Arab," this is not POV requiring citation. The facts related in the article are eloquent testimony to Wael Hallaq's prominence in Islamic Studies: three decades in the academic field, two highly-sought-after and influential professorships, nine authored volumes, and some sixty other publications are evidence enough of prominence in an academic field. Prominence is not proven by citing a text which links the subject to the word "prominent;" rather, it is evidenced by the subject's many and influential accomplishments and publications. Scholars and students in the field of Islamic Legal Studies--my own area of study, authorship, and teaching--know the name Wael Hallaq very well.

I hope I have explained myself adequately. Please let me know if you have any other causes or concerns.

Best, RaHHaal (talk) 01:28, 4 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, RaHHaal. We, as Wikipedia editors, are not supposed to judge what is "prominent" for ourselves. Doing so ourselves is considered significantly more subjective than if a WP:Reliable source asserts it. Take Michael Jordan, for example. Many people, very like the vast majority of people, consider him the greatest/most prominent basketball player of all time. But we are not supposed to assert that ourselves (meaning based on our own opinion), or state "Michael Jordan is a prominent basketball player." without supporting it with a WP:Reliable source. In his Wikipedia article, we get across the fact that he is considered the greatest/most prominent basketball player of all time by relaying: His biography on the National Basketball Association (NBA) website states, "By acclamation, Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player of all time." We do this because, per WP:Verifiability, Wikipedia requires a citation for such wording, including your wording of "prominent." Such wording is also often considered non-WP:Neutral if not done right ("right" meaning the inclusion of a WP:Reliable source, making sure that the assertion is not WP:Undue weight, and possibly that it has WP:In-text attribution).

I see that you reverted me, as though I am simply supposed to accept your explanations and that's that, the matter is resolved. I will not revert again because I am not that interested in this matter, and I know that relatively inexperienced Wikipedia editors such as yourself are prone to WP:Edit war. But, despite your Wikipedia editing being very infrequent, you should familiarize yourself with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Perhaps one of these days, you are going to come across a Wikipedia editor who is not so willing to let you get your way...and you won't know how to deal with it, and will likely get blocked for whatever reason (likely WP:Edit warring), because you are not familiar with the way things are supposed to work here. Flyer22 (talk) 02:01, 4 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

User:Anarchistdy

I have reported Anarchistdy to the edit warring noticeboard, if you'd like to comment. GSK ● ✉ ✓ 09:34, 4 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I knew before you left a message for me on his talk page and here about this. Have commented. Flyer22 (talk) 09:52, 4 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Happy birthday

Happy Birthday!

Have a very happy birthday on your special day!
Best wishes, Halo Jerk1 (talk) (16:47, 4 October 2013 (UTC))[reply]

I think you need the good wishes here too, not just at home. Hope you don't mind. I added you to this list.[12] I know you don't like it when your birthday comes around, but try to cheer up. Maybe this message makes up for this[13] and the lack of help you're getting from that article's watchers? Halo Jerk1 (talk) 16:47, 4 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The message helped a bit, and of course the otherwise nice birthday. When yours arrives in a few days, don't expect a Wikipedia message from me about it. *Grumbles, as always, that our birthdays are only four days apart...while our other siblings get breathing space on the birthday front* Also, thanks to DrNegative for helping out. Flyer22 (talk) 02:16, 5 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Anytime, and happy belated. DrNegative (talk) 22:06, 7 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. Flyer22 (talk) 22:14, 7 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Rice University Residential Colleges Page

Good day!

I can understand why my recent edit might not seem constructive, but it is actually true and correct information. The naming of the new wing was a matter brought before the Lovett College Central Committee, referenced in the article, and the proposal to name it "Stinky Leebron" was passed by a majority vote of the eligible elected officers.

If you're interested I can go into more details, but suffice it to say: I would greatly appreciate working with you to include this piece of information in the article. I think there might be a better place to put it, but what do you think? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.200.245.37 (talk) 23:55, 4 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No need to work out any of that with me. I suppose that I will have to WP:Assume good faith with you on this matter, unless you can provide a source from that school confirming what you've relayed to me. Flyer22 (talk) 02:16, 5 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A beer for you!

Thanks for your help in providing evidence regarding Anarchistdy. GSK ● ✉ ✓ 00:42, 5 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, and you're welcome. Flyer22 (talk) 02:16, 5 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for Undoing Syrian Emergency Task Force Vandalism

Thank you for recently undoing the vandalism to Syrian Emergency Task Force. The same vandalism recently reoccurred and I have undone it. It appears the organization is in the process of folding and re-branding itself (its website has just gone offline and its phone is disconnected) and, I suspect, an attempt is being made to scrub its history as part of a fresh start. I don't know it's necessary to request page protection yet, however, I'll keep watching it and very much appreciate your attentiveness and assistance. BlueSalix (talk) 07:21, 6 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome. Flyer22 (talk) 07:53, 6 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

15:47, 6 October 2013‎ Flyer22 (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (7,478 bytes) (-26)‎ . . (Reverted 1 edit by 165.249.0.62 identified as test/vandalism using STiki) (undo)

thanks for cleaning that up.

I left my browser open and another friend walked over to make a revision without my knowledge

btw chirs is a dumbass.....

keep up the good work.....

Josh 165.249.0.62 (talk) 15:54, 6 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You Deleted West Hills High School Information

I'm actually a student at this high school, and as a member of ASB, I know that my mascot's names are Wolfie and Wolfette. Wolfie is the male wolf while Wolfette is the female wolf. I request that I reedit the page to have the correct information. Snowshredder140 (talk) 04:38, 7 October 2013‎ (UTC)[reply]

Snowshredder140, remember to sign your username at the end of the comments you make on Wikipedia talk pages. All you have to do to sign your username is simply type four tildes (~), like this: ~~~~. I signed your username for you above. Flyer22 (talk) 23:30, 7 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Mammary intercourse

Just to clarify, I'm well aware that women can (and often do) achieve orgasm through cunnilingus; but the partner performing the cunnilingus doesn't normally orgasm themselves as a direct result of performing the cunnilingus! -- Taohinton (talk) 16:29, 7 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, when I made this comment (and the followup after it), I considered that's what you meant by your edit summary statement and that you'd likely clarify on my talk page. Flyer22 (talk) 16:42, 7 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Brad Pitt

Sorry that I haven't responded to you I don't use that e-mail anymore but I'm so confused as to what the problem is with the Brad Pitt article, I barely edit anymore. -- ThinkBlue (Hit BLUE) 21:54, 8 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Any current problem with that article is not with the sources that a certain user doesn't like; see the discussions there about it. All was resolved on that front, and the aforementioned certain user was or is still pressing what he perceives as an issue. Flyer22 (talk) 22:00, 8 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I can tell, the article has been improved, the discussion has ground to a halt and the whole thing has blown over. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 06:33, 10 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Jeffrey Epstein

How is the information regarding someone being a registered sex offender not considered proper information? Epsecially if the person is paying off victims to not speak about the crime. The man is a registered sex offender and the information should stay as long as he is registered as one. http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/news/sex-offender-jeffrey-epstein-settles-seven-more-la/nL7jm/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.148.60.53 (talk) 22:21, 9 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Please read BLP. Epstein was all over the news with his conviction. It's how I even noticed his article. Adding this information to his article isn't a BLP violation. Lastly, this is old ground. If you'd like to discuss it, please do so, but bring it up on the article's talk page. Edit warring over it will only get you blocked. Rklawton (talk) 23:09, 9 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

IP, someone having been convicted of a crime usually does not go in the first sentence of the lead; besides that, since it is contentious, it should be sourced in the lead, per Wikipedia:Lead#Citations and WP:BLP, if it is to be placed there (though still not in the first sentence). That is why I have reverted you here and here. That's also why I reverted Rklawton. Well, the first time I reverted you, IP, it looks like I thought you were committing WP:Vandalism. I don't much care about this lead matter, however, so I won't revert again or debate the matter at the article's talk page. Additionally, that article is not on my WP:Watchlist, and will never be on it.

Rklawton, reminding me of the possibility of being blocked for WP:Edit warring is not necessary, as I am far from a newbie. Personally, I would consider blocking me in the case of these two latest reverts most unjustified. I know that you are quick and/or harsh with the block-trigger, from, for example, what I saw in this case regarding the Veganism article. I am the one who queried Alison (via email) about that block, which I consider inappropriate because it was/still is an indefinite block. But, again, the block-trigger is nowhere close to being needed in this case regarding me. Flyer22 (talk) 23:29, 9 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The general idea is to discuss things on the talk page rather than just revert. You weren't doing that - and that's problematic. Now that you are using the talk page, I don't see a problem. We can discuss the matter there, work toward consensus, and so on. Rklawton (talk) 01:41, 10 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What I did was not problematic in the least. As for discussing the Jeffrey Epstein lead matter any further, I've made my stance clear above -- not interested. Flyer22 (talk) 01:46, 10 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Three reverts without discussion is problematic. Rklawton (talk) 01:53, 10 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The first revert was made a month ago (though not far off in that month), and I clearly thought that I was reverting vandalism or a WP:BLP violation of some sort (though, if the latter, I used the wrong revert option or tool). The latter two I reverted because I consider them WP:BLP violations, which is supported by Wikipedia:Lead#Citations and WP:BLP and other people's views that are documented on that article's talk page. There, you stated that you disagree with those views (while also accusing one of the editors there of being a WP:Single purpose account that exists at Wikipedia to whitewash that aspect of the article). You are free to disagree with those views, obviously. But it is because of these views that are opposite yours that I don't consider my actions in this case problematic. If you would like to continue to debate whether or not my actions were problematic, then report them at a relevant noticeboard. Either way, you will be doing it somewhere other than on my talk page; this is because once I ask you to stop posting on it, at least regarding this matter, you should defer to the Wikipedia:User pages guideline and do so. Flyer22 (talk) 02:10, 10 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Archive

User: John

Initial information

September 2013

slow down

Someone protests way way too much (modern meaning); but please let it go

More on John's behavior

Congratulations!

Jetsunma Ahkon Lhamo vandalism repair, thank you so much.

Chuck Cotter facts

the subject, talk

Pedro Passos Coelho

"Good faith" reversion via STiki

Mailed you some pretty private matters

Newbie

Hegel problem

deleted info

You deleted my changes to Brian McCann (baseball)

Casus Belli Edit

Sockpuppet of محبةالكتب

School Project on Verizon FiOS

Marina Oswald Porter

Refactored edit

Capitalism page change

Changes to My Brest Friend's Girl

Thanks for your help with The Wachowskis' issues in The Matrix article.

The Politics of...Hair Color?

Help with Marissa Cooper - The OC: Class Project

Ok... Sex positions

your reversion of edit using merriam webster as lead in Circumcision article

Comment

Congratulations!

Moon Festival edit

Changes to Wael Hallaq

User:Anarchistdy

Happy birthday

Rice University Residential Colleges Page

A beer for you!

Thanks for Undoing Syrian Emergency Task Force Vandalism

15:47, 6 October 2013‎ Flyer22 (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (7,478 bytes) (-26)‎ . . (Reverted 1 edit by 165.249.0.62 identified as test/vandalism using STiki) (undo)

You Deleted West Hills High School Information

Mammary intercourse

Re: Brad Pitt

Re: Jeffrey Epstein