User talk:Corinne

Welcome to my new Talk page. You are welcome to continue discussions started in Archive 6.

Deferent and epicycle

What do you think of my last edit, changing 'mini circular' to 'mini-circular'? I don't think it's good enough; the meaning is really 'miniature circular'. Isn't it? Rothorpe (talk) 19:55, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I felt I had to read the article first, made one small edit, then got distracted with other tasks. Well, I think "mini" should always be hyphenated, but I'm not sure "mini-", or even "miniature", is needed. The first sentence in the Introduction of the article says, "a small circle called an epicycle". Here, as in the place where you made the edit, it is followed by "larger". I don't see why "small circular orbits" wouldn't be sufficient. It isn't really small or miniature. It's just small in comparison to the deferent. CorinneSD (talk) 22:02, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

Yes, 'small circular orbits' will do it. Thanks! Rothorpe (talk) 22:23, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

Dar

@Lysozym: I've been looking for someone who knows Farsi and English and can help me with two different questions. Perhaps you can help.

1) I noticed what I thought was a missing "g" in both the "English" and Farsi forms of "danandegi" in the table in "Native word formation" in Persian vocabulary. I've been discussing it with User talk:Kwamikagami and Lfdder a bit on the article's talk page but mostly on Kwami's talk page. I understand a bit more about the /g/ but still don't understand why it was left off the table. I wondered if you had any ideas about that. You can respond either here or on Kwami's talk page.

2) I read the article on Dari (Persian dialect) and made a few edits to try and put it into Standard English. I tried to aim for what I thought was the intended meaning (when you have time, or if you have time, perhaps you can review them). (I also read the article Mullah Do Piaza and found many errors in syntax which I tried to fix and some vague words at which I added some "clarification needed" tags with notes to editors. If and when you have time, you might look at that, too.)

Well, back to the Dari article:

A fellow editor noticed that the pronunciation guide for Dari at the beginning of the article says it is pronounced "Darry" and wondered why it was not written that way in English. I had always thought Dari was pronounced to rhyme with "sorry", but I guess not. But then I remembered reading that "Dari" came from the word "gate" (gate to the court), and I always thought the word "dar", meaning "gate", was pronounced to rhyme with English "far". Is that wrong? If "dar" ("gate") is pronounced to rhyme with "far", why would "Dari" not rhyme with "sorry"? English got its word "door" from Persian "dar". How would it ever go from "dar" (pronounced d æ r) to "door"? Just judging from the sound, it seems more likely that it went from "dar" (rhyming with "far") to "door". I would appreciate learning any light that you can shed on this.

Well, that's all for now. CorinneSD (talk) 02:41, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Hello CorinneSD, nice meeting you.

1) First of all, I recommend the use of the native English word "Persian" instead of the (very recent) "Farsi". You also say "German" and not "Deutsch" and "French" instead of "français". I do not see why "Persian" should be replaced with "Farsi". :)

Hear, hear. Rothorpe (talk) 20:51, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

2) As for "danandegi", you are right, a /g/ is still missing in the table. The correct transliteration into English (based on the standardized transliteration method of the German Oriental Society, by the way, is dānendagī. The /ā/ is pronounced like in "ball" or "ward", the /ī/ is longer than a normal /i/, like in "fleet". It should be noted that this word is a rather theoretic construction, demonstrating the ability of Persian to create new nouns out of verbs. Even though it does not sound wrong, it is never used in speech or written text. The form "dānestan", which is actually a verb, may also be used as a noun and is much more common (very similar to German; for example, the verb "reden" - to talk, speak - becomes a noun by adding an article to it: "das Reden", "the talking", while "die Rede" is "the speech").

3) The correct transliteration of دری into Latin script is Darī, with a short /a/ (like in "apple") and a long final /ī/, more like "Daree". The /r/ is pronounced like in Spanish.

4) English "door" is not derived from Persian "dar" but has the same etymological origin, both being Indo-European languages. German "Tür", Russian "dver’ (дверь)", Albanian "derë", Welsh "dôr", Sanskrit "dvā́r", Gothic "daúr", modern Islandic "dyr", etc. are all cognates, having the same Indo-European origin. The Persian word later also got the meaning of "sublime porte" (cf. Ottoman Sublime Porte), hence the official language of the court - the language of the sublime porte - came to be known as "Darī". And because that language has been usually Persian - in its various forms, from Old Persian to Middle Persian to New Persian - "Darī" is to be understood as a synonym for "High Persian", the standardized literary language which is the base of all spoken dialects of Persian. Another word that - at least according to folk etymology - is derived from the Persian word for "door" is darwīsh, rendered into english as dervish, a lable given to Islamic mystics; these usually ascetic mystics were mostly living in the streets, often knocking on doors and begging for food or shelter; that's how darwīsh, the "beggars at the door", became known as "mystic". The actual origin of darwīsh probably goes to Avestan drəgu-, "the needy one", via Mid. Persian driyōš. Arabic faqīr (English fakir), also used as a lable for Islamic mystics, has the same meaning.

5) Your edits look good to me. Thanks anyway.

--Lysozym (talk) 08:46, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for your informative reply, all very interesting. I have no problem using the word "Persian". Thank you for correcting the error in that table. I speak Persian, enough to hold basic conversations, and I can read and write it, too, though not as well as I speak it. I think it's a beautiful language. By the way, and please don't be offended, I'd just like to point out a spelling error that appeared twice in your comment, above. You wrote "lable" when it should be "label". Perhaps it was just a typo. How did you learn Avestan? CorinneSD (talk) 19:33, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Saint Thomas Christians

@Cuchullain: I've been watching the article Saint Thomas Christians and have seen the recent back and forth edits, edit summaries, and reverts. I'm sure you know much more about the subject than I do and are also watching the article. I just wanted to be sure that you saw an edit by the IP editor 117 that came just before the rearranging edits that you undid, something to the effect that the Catholic Church was not in Kerala in 999. (I believe it may have been in a caption.) If you saw it and approved, that's fine. I just wanted to be sure you saw it. CorinneSD (talk) 18:38, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Quick to pounce

@Lfdder: I had already made around 3,000 edits with no problem, and once, responding to a comment by a non-native speaker of English in a Talk page discussion, I made a suggestion regarding a revision to a wording, and Rincewind42 sent me a stern message saying do not edit other editors' comments on Talk pages. She's/He's quick to pounce. CorinneSD (talk) 14:46, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

IPA chart

Is Help:IPA for English more accessible now? Do the footnotes explain the questions you had? Some of us cut down the amount of text every once in a while, but there are others who feel all the details need to be explained. — kwami (talk) 16:12, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

It's much clearer now! I'm glad you put the chart closer to the beginning of the article, and I'm glad you used "fewer" as an example instead of "sewer". Your notes are all quite clear, informative, and helplful. I'm just wondering about the examples of words that have vowel sounds that the chart does not make clear since they are rare, like "fir, fur, and fern" You list countries and places next to them, but (I'm sorry to say -- reveals my ignorance) it's not clear to me whether those countries are examples of places where those vowels are pronounced differently or are examples of places where those vowels are pronounced the same. CorinneSD (talk) 16:23, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

Just read

@Rothorpe: I am baffled. See responses to my comment under "Tea" at User talk:Sminthopsis84#Tea's talk page. No comment. Now I'm definitely going to ask you first, unless it's science, or something like that. CorinneSD (talk) 23:06, 26 April 2014 (UTC) CorinneSD (talk) 23:07, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps the first one is a response, but they didn't understand you. Worth another try? Rothorpe (talk) 18:12, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

I asked Dougweller. CorinneSD (talk) 19:29, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Need help

@Fayenatic london: I just typed a long comment on User talk:Oggmus' talk page and saved it. But I wanted to go look for an editor's user name so that I could add it. I found it, and went back into the comment and added it, and saved it. But for some reason, my entire comment appeared twice on Oggmus' talk page, with the addition I made appearing only in the second one. I added that user name into the first of the two versions, and saved it. Then I tried to delete the second one, but I couldn't. Can you either delete the second (or first -- it doesn't matter) version of my comment, or tell me how to do it? I don't know what I did wrong. CorinneSD (talk) 19:29, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

 Done You sometimes get a duplicate when the system seems slow to save and you click Save again, but I can't guess what the difficulty was in trying to delete one of the duplicate sections. You can click the Edit button right at the top of a page to open the whole page for editing. You should also have been able to click Edit on one of the two sections, delete all the text in the edit window, and click Save. Not to worry. – Fayenatic London 20:50, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

It doesn't become you

@Lfdder: That kind of edit summary doesn't become you. I would take each edit summary as a chance to share your wonderful knowledge and teach other editors both what you know and how to edit. As editors, we feel anonymous, but your editing and edit summaries have an effect for good or ill both on other editors' opinions of you and on Wikipedia as a whole. I was turning to both you and Kwami with my questions, having such a high opinion of both of you for your extensive knowledge, almost in awe, and I was disappointed when I saw that edit summary. CorinneSD (talk) 20:07, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Formatting and arranging photos

@Fayenatic london: I just added two photos of outer space to my User page, one of the earth as a "pale blue dot" and one of the Eta Carinae Nebula. Is there a way to put the one of the Eta Carinae nebula to the right of the one of the earth, but in the same size as they are now? (I don't want the Eta Carinae one too small, and it becomes too small when it is in the size of the earth as a pale blue dot one. CorinneSD (talk) 02:07, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Hi, I'm back to my studies today so please excuse a half-reply. WP:PIC is the page of advice on formatting pictures. – Fayenatic London 06:08, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Thank you! CorinneSD (talk) 14:32, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Need help formatting pictures

I've been adding photos to my User page, and I want to arrange some of them in a certain way. I just read the article WP:PIC and didn't find an answer to my question. There are three different things I want to be able to do:

1) I want to be able to put a small photo under the "userboxes" at the right. I'm thinking about putting the one of earth as a pale blue dot as seen from space there, a little smaller than it is right now. How would I do that?

2) I wonder if it is possible to remove the gray border around some of the photos. For example, I would like to be able to remove the gray border around the photo "Eta Carinae Nebula". Is that possible? How would I do that?

3) I saw in the article WP:PIC#Galleries the series of photos of cats. Like in the first row of those photos, I want to put some that are wider than others. In formatting the gallery, do I just specify the height and not even mention the width, or do I need to mention both height and width?

4) In the article, at WP:PIC#Panoramas, it mentioned that I should not format a picture larger than 550px but should, rather, use the "panorama" template. I have one very wide picture on my User page, the last one, of a forest in Germany. Can I leave it the way I put it? Is that injunction mainly for pictures in articles, or is it also for editors' User pages? CorinneSD (talk) 15:31, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

1. You can add images without adding galleries. That should resolve the "pale blue dot" image issue (it turned out a little smaller than I would have preferred, but the image file is only 180x180px).
2. The galleries specify both a height and a widht, usually. If the image isn't close to square and you set both height and width to 400px, the remainder will be filled up with a gray border. I have resized the one-image gallery so that it fits better. For a single image you could also avoid the gallery altogether and use [[File:Eta Carinae Nebula 1.jpg|thumb|left|400px|Caption]]; that should also do the trick.
3. I'm not quite sure what you're aiming for. The cat gallery at WP:PIC#Galleries gets its format from the mode="packed-hover" parameter. Such a gallery will scale all images to the same height, roughly but not exactly the one specified by the heights= parameter. For all I can tell it will ignore a widths= parameter because, basically, the images are meant to be arranged in rows, where they need to share a height, not in columns, where the same width would be an issue.
4. Personally I wouldn't worry all that much about images on your user page; at worst someone will have problems seeing them properly, but unlike an article, there's nothing but images, so you won't break anything else in the process.

Hope that helps. Huon (talk) 19:37, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Thank you so much, Huon! I see you placed the pale blue dot picture right where I wanted it, and I think you removed some of the gray border on the Eta Carinae Nebula picture. Thank you! CorinneSD (talk) 23:37, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia article on formatting pictures

I posted this today on Dougweller's Talk page, but he said to ask at the Help Desk. So I've copied it here:

I've been reading the Wikipedia article on formatting pictures, WP:PIC, and I noticed something I wanted to ask you about. It's in the section WP:PIC#Alternating left and right. I saw this sentence:

"Perhaps the easiest way to handle multiple floating pictures is to alternate them left then right."

However, the pictures in that section are arranged so that the first one is on the right and second one is on the left. Shouldn't the text and the arrangement of the pictures match? CorinneSD (talk) 15:03, 29 April 2014 (UTC) CorinneSD (talk) 23:59, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

It should; technically we should alternate "right then left". As soon as there are more than just two images, this becomes rather academic anyway - right, then left, then right, then left... Feel free to modify the text accordingly if you think it's necessary to emphasize that the alternation should start on the right. Huon (talk) 01:06, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Revelation

1. Any of the suggested alternatives would seem perfectly fine. 2. The lengthy section on Tillich seemed to move away from the topic and more towards his views on Christ rather than Revelation. That paragraph is more suitable to the article on Tillich. By all means feel free to clean up "Revelations", as it could clearly use it. Regards. Mannanan51 (talk) 21:41, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Interesting discussion

@Joshua Jonathan:, @Rothorpe: You might be interested in a discussion at User talk:Dougweller#Hi. Although the IP editor who goes on and on is still learning what belongs in a WP article and what does not, he/she has some interesting ideas which other editors are responding to in a serious (and instructive) manner. CorinneSD (talk) 00:19, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll have a look. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 05:58, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, I did. Rothorpe (talk) 13:31, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Reference Errors on 5 May

Hello, I'm ReferenceBot. I have automatically detected that an edit performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. It is as follows:

• On the Koç family page, your edit caused a missing references list (help | help with group references). (Fix | Ask for help)

Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can report it to my operator. Thanks, ReferenceBot (talk) 00:41, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

I fixed it. CorinneSD (talk) 14:49, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Nickel

@Apokryltaros: About a week ago I went through most of the article on Nickel and made a few minor edits. In the course of reading the article, I came across a few sentences that were just slightly off in terms of clarity. I listed the sentences with my questions at User talk:Vsmith#Nickel, but, other than one brief reply on one item, he has not done anything with it. Since you have a science background, I wonder if you have the patience to read the sentences and my questions about them and perhaps make any changes that you feel are necessary to improve them (or let me know if you think the sentence is fine as is). CorinneSD (talk) 14:49, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

I've tried to clarify "The Mond Process," changed "hydrometallurgy" to "hydrometallurgical techniques," rewrote that one sentence in the second paragraph to "coating chemistry equipment, and manufacturing certain alloys," (since the list is supposed to be a list of actions nickel is used for, and not things that are plated with nickel), and I amended the table to include "metric tons" at the top, too. What do you think so far?--Mr Fink (talk) 15:54, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

It's much better now. Thank you! CorinneSD (talk) 21:51, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Picture on User page

I found a picture in the article Pierre Bonnard that I liked, so I added it to my User page. It is called "The Dining-room in the Country" and was painted in 1913. Before adding a picture to my User page, I always check to see what kind of attribution, if any, I need to add. For this one, I saw that it is in the public domain in the United States, but there are warnings that it is not yet in the public domain in the country of origin (presumably France). My question is: can I use this picture on my User page without breaking any rules/laws, and, if so, what kind of attribution, if any, do I need to add? Thanks. CorinneSD (talk) 19:43, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

The Engish Wikipedia is governed by US copyright law; since the image is in the public domain in the US, you can add it to your user page without any special requirements or attribution. The note about the copyright status in the country of origin is important because the Wikimedia Commons requires images to be free both in the US and in the country of origin - thus a US-only free image may not be transferred. Huon (talk) 20:16, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

O.K. Thank you. CorinneSD (talk) 20:18, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

@Huon:. I didn't realize this. We had a photo of a Korean statue in an article, used to illustrate the archaic form of the inscription, and it was deleted because public monuments are copyrighted under Korean law, and photos of them cannot be freely distributed. But if we only have to consider US law, there's no problem: the photographer released it, which is all that matters. Have things changed, was the deletion wrong, or am I missing something? — kwami (talk) 20:46, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

And I have another question about those notices for the Pierre Bonnard picture. It said not to copy the picture to Wikimedia Commons. I found that puzzling since it was already in Wikimedia Commons. I'm not planning on uploading any pictures to Wikimedia Commons, but what does that warning mean? CorinneSD (talk) 20:55, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

The photographer can only release what he owns. If Korea doesn't have freedom of panorama, the architect or sculptor maintains a copyright in images taken of the statue. The photographer may release his rights, but not the architect's. Unless it was a very old image, the US acknowledges foreign copyrights via the Berne Convention, so a non-free image taken in Korea within the last few decades is non-free in the US as well. The Bonnard painting, in contrast, is so old that it's beyond Berne Convention protection. I see no indication that it's on the Commons, though - can you please give a link or provide the Commons file name? It's not commons:File:Bonnard-the dining room in the country.jpg, and it's not in commons:Category:Pierre Bonnard. Huon (talk) 21:07, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Oh, sorry. I guess I only saw it in the article about Pierre Bonnard. I guess I thought that all pictures in articles were also in Commons, but I guess not. CorinneSD (talk) 21:11, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Unsigned comment

I saw an edit to Talk:Polymath. When I went to look at it, I couldn't find it on the Talk page. I had to go into the Revision History to locate it. I saw that the editor who added the comment had put it right at the top of the Talk page, and had also not signed the comment. I moved the comment from the top to the bottom of the page. I made a new section and pasted the editor's comment. I also added a note saying that it had been moved. However, I knew that this edit to the Talk page, with my note, had to be signed, so I signed next to my note. I didn't know how to add those notices to an obviously new editor who didn't know where to post new comments nor that he/she had to sign with four tildes.

I wonder if you could add that kind of note but also remove my "signature". It doesn't really have to be there, does it? I just didn't want to add a comment but not sign it and then have my IP address there. If removing it is a big problem, then leave it, but let me know how to add that standard note regarding (a) where to post new comments and (b) to be sure to sign comments. Thanks. CorinneSD (talk) 20:25, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Done. I don't know if there's a better way to do it, but no, AFAIK you don't need to sign your name to s.t. like this. — kwami (talk) 20:40, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

O.K. Thanks. What's "AFAIK"? CorinneSD (talk) 20:42, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

As far as... Rothorpe (talk) 20:52, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Well, I was thinking it meant, "As Far As I'm Concerned," but then it would end with a "C". CorinneSD (talk) 20:56, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

"As far as I know". Huon (talk) 21:07, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Oh... Thank you. I hadn't thought of that. CorinneSD (talk) 21:12, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Throw it into your search window. WP will ask if you want to try Wikt, where they have an entry. The other one I use a lot is AFAICT. — kwami (talk) 23:54, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

O.K. Thank you. CorinneSD (talk) 00:01, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

I think I'd rather just type out the words. I'd rather not have to guess when I see a string of capital letters. It only takes a second or two to type the words, and I think seeing the words helps convey the writer's full meaning. But I guess if you see the abbreviation a lot, you get used to it and know what it means. CorinneSD (talk) 00:10, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

Rumi

@Kansas Bear: I saw your post at Florian Blaschke's talk page and thought I'd try to help. I had heard of Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Balkhī, who is called "Rumi" in the west, so I found the article on him by putting "Rumi" in the search box and choosing his name from the disambiguation page (13th century Persian poet). In the section on "Name" there are a few sources that discuss "Rumi". Maybe they will be helpful. CorinneSD (talk) 00:05, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Corinne. --Kansas Bear (talk) 01:58, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

My talk page

Hi CorinneSD, I've moved things around a bit on my talk page, to be less confusing. See what you think. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 00:32, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

Thank you! Much better. CorinneSD (talk) 00:35, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

(Although I don't mind conversations that go off on tangents.) CorinneSD (talk) 00:36, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

Feel free to adjust it further for sense! Sminthopsis84 (talk) 00:47, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

Adjust your talk page? Wow. You're very trusting. I could make a little abstract art with it. If I see anything out of place, I'll move it to the right section (as I'm sure you will, too), but I'm not going to deal with contacting technical now. Too tired. CorinneSD (talk) 00:54, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

@Sminthopsis84: You know I'm just kidding, right? CorinneSD (talk) 16:03, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

Absolutely. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 16:55, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

A cupcake for you!

Did you know that bananas have flowers like this?

Thanks Corinne, you are the light and soul of Wikipedia. Hafspajen (talk) 01:34, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

Wow. Thank you so much! It's such a pleasure to edit with such intelligent, knowledgeable, creative, pleasant editors such as you and Sminthopsis. CorinneSD (talk) 16:02, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

:) looks yummy. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 16:57, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

Well, I don't ever remember seeing the flowers up close as in this picture. I think I've heard of banana flowers being used in cuisine. CorinneSD (talk) 18:58, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

What do they do with it? (in the kitchen) Hafspajen (talk) 19:40, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

I don't know. I'll have to look to see where I saw it. CorinneSD (talk) 19:44, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

can you help resolving the issue on the awb founder on the talkpage

can you Dougweller as you said join the discussion on the talkpage 46.45.142.226 (talk) 14:35, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

How

How can anyone write such a stupid article. Hafspajen (talk) 12:48, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

I agree. I guess anyone could write an article on just about anything he/she reads in a newspaper. If anything, I think this might belong in an article on psychology. CorinneSD (talk) 14:12, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

I saw your ping below, but that matter appears to be closed, so I commented on this AfD instead... and added a citation for banana flower. Now, what was I meant to be doing... this morning I saw this but am not so sure! – Fayenatic London 19:57, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Another editor who feels forced to retire

@Fayenatic london: I'm writing with regard to another editor who feels he has been bullied by admins to the point where he feels he must retire: User talk:Lfdder. I haven't followed all his edits, so I don't know exactly what led to his being blocked from editing for one month. I have seen a few instances of his cursing at other editors or otherwise speaking to them strongly, but that may have been, as he says, out of frustration. He is very knowledgeable in the area of linguistics and has made quite a few good edits (he works often with Kwamikagami). I am just sorry that such a good editor would feel so upset by the way he has been treated that he would give up editing on Wikipedia forever. I and a few other editors have tried to persuade him to return, but his last note shows he is unpersuaded. If you have time, can you look into this and see if there is any legitimacy to his claim that he has been bullied, not just the recent re-posting of the block notice that he had removed (after he posted the "Retired" notice), but even before that -- whatever it was that made him so angry and frustrated that he lost his temper?

The way I see it, in any group of people, there are always a few who are more emotional or outspoken than others. I feel that an occasional burst of emotion should not automatically get a good editor blocked. I think friendly admonishment and reminders to choose words more carefully are more effective. A block might make this type of person more upset than he was to begin with. Of course, I trust your judgment. CorinneSD (talk) 14:44, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

For the record, the block was for this, coming hot on the heels of this and this. Given that Lfdder has been blocked repeatedly for personal attacks, I felt a longer block was appropriate. I don't deny that Lfadder's done some good content work, but persistent abuse of other editors poisons the well here far more effectively than blocking a "content creator". Yunshui ^雲_水 14:55, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

I'm sorry. I didn't realize that Lfdder had such a history of making personal attacks (and using inappropriate language). Thank you for your reply. CorinneSD (talk) 15:21, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Hinduism and Judaism

@Joshua Jonathan: Joshua, what's going on at Talk:Hinduism and Judaism? Is Blades getting into trouble again? I don't understand how two people could be so far apart about a basic fact about Hinduism. Blades is standing his ground. I thought maybe you could help sort things out in that discussion. CorinneSD (talk) 02:03, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

That's a hopeless page. It's supposed to be about Comparative religion, but it's more about "Your religion sucks". I'll take a look. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 04:31, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

Done. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 05:08, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

Chiming in

@Rothorpe: I'm just wondering if you mind when I chime in on your discussions with other editors on your Talk page. If you'd rather I didn't, or if you'd prefer I did it less often, please let me know and I will respect your wishes. CorinneSD (talk) 22:55, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Wonder no more. You are always most welcome. Rothorpe (talk) 00:04, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Thank you. CorinneSD (talk) 19:26, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Edit conflict

For about six days I've been having a problem with edit conflict. When I leave a comment on a Talk page, usually an editor's talk page (and not every editor's talk page), and save it, I often get the Edit conflict notice. A few times I went through the steps of copying my comment from the bottom and pasting it to the top section, and saving it, but sometimes the edit conflict notice returned. So I left the page, to start fresh, and I saw that my comment, with signature and date, had been saved. There seemed to be no other editing going on at that time on that page. This keeps happening. It's getting annoying. I don't think this has anything to do with it, but I enabled Twinkle about four days ago. Can you help me? This never used to happen. I left a comment on WP technical, but got no specific help, perhaps because it was at about the same time that everyone was having all sorts of problems about three days ago. CorinneSD (talk) 02:14, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Hi, seems like a rather odd problem. If you didn't hear anything at WP:TECHPUMP it's probably not a widespread issue. A few things you can try to troubleshoot...

• Edit the same talk page(s) as an IP, or create a legitimate-use alternate account for this purpose, just be sure to link to your main account on the new userpage
• If you're using an old version of IE, try a newer browser. Doubtful this would be the problem, but worth a shot
• This does not sound like a JavaScript issue, so most (all?) gadgets should have nothing to do with it. Nonetheless, you may consider turning them off, or simply turn off JavaScript altogether and see if the problem persists
• There's also a #wikimedia-tech ^connect IRC channel, someone there might know of the issue

You could get really technical with preserving network logs and seeing what types of responses you get from the server, but that's a handful. See if any of the above work first. Best of luck! — MusikAnimal ^talk 03:04, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Thank you. CorinneSD (talk) 03:15, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Interesting brief exchange re Portuguese

@Rothorpe: I don't know whether you have Kwamikagami's talk page on your watch list, but there's an interesting brief exchange regarding the sounds of Portuguese. I thought you might be interested. I keep his talk page on my watch list because he's an expert in linguistics, and interesting topics come up. CorinneSD (talk) 16:38, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll have a look. By the way, I sympathise with your edit conflict problems. Did the above help? Rothorpe (talk) 17:38, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

I didn't try any of them yet. Each one sounds a bit complicated for me. CorinneSD (talk) 19:17, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

I couldn't understand it either. On a different subject, can you remember where we were talking about false titles? I've been sticking definite articles in a few music articles. Rothorpe (talk) 01:49, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

@Rothorpe:It's right in the middle of the discussion under the heading of User talk:Rothorpe#The, just above "Beatles single..." on your Talk page (I've given you a link).

Did you see my discussion with Jerome Kohl regarding outdents, just below this? CorinneSD (talk) 23:10, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

Thank you, yes. Rothorpe (talk) 00:28, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

Outdent

@Jerome Kohl: I just glanced at your talk page for a moment (seemed like an interesting discussion was going on) and saw that your and the other editor's comments were getting farther and farther to the right of the page. I just wondered if you knew about {{outdent}} or {{od}}. It moves the discussion back to the left margin and creates a line connecting the last word on the right to the first word in the continued discussion on the left. I learned about it a while ago but keep forgetting it because I don't often go on to the point where it's needed. I would guess that you do know about it since you've been editing for so long, but just in case you didn't, or had forgotten, I thought I'd tell you about it. CorinneSD (talk) 00:03, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

I just wanted to see whether the text would eventually squish out through the right-hand margin and return from the left—proving that web pages are actually cylindrical. . . . No? Oh, all right, then. Yes, I know about "outdents", but had forgotten how they are done. Thanks for the nudge! (That said, I detest the neologism, just as I detest "outro". Do people not realize there are already perfectly good words in the English language for these things?)—Jerome Kohl (talk) 04:41, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

@Jerome Kohl:Very funny. (But I imagine things like that sometimes, too. I am still amazed at the idea that one can drag a file or picture with the mouse and "drop" it somewhere else, and it stays.) I think that's the reason why I can never seem to remember that template -- because "outdent" is a word I didn't grow up with. "Outro" I never heard before. What is that? And what word do we already have for "outdent"? It isn't actually outdenting (as opposed to indenting), because it never goes to the left of the left margin. It's just going back to the left margin. But do we have a word for that? CorinneSD (talk) 23:06, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

Parmenides

@Paine Ellsworth: First, let me thank you for leaving that very nice note on Lfdder's talk page. (I hope my last comment to him didn't alienate him even more than he was already; my earlier comments to him were more like yours.)

Second, there is a sentence in Parmenides that I just do not like. I left a note at User talk:Rothorpe#Parmenides about it. I even got Omnipaedista's opinion, and Rothorpe is now agreeing with it. But I know you are a professional writer, so I've got to ask you what you think. I just don't like the sound of "ideas...had a strong effect on Plato, and in turn..." I think a verb is better than had + noun, so that the chain of events is a chain of actions. Then what actually happened is clearer. Do you know what I mean? If you agree with the other two, then I'll drop it. CorinneSD (talk) 00:18, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

Lipsynking? Lipsinct?

Phonetic but incorrect spellings of forms of a verb that has at least four alternative acceptable ones. I'm editing an article (about Milli Vanilli, a bogus pop group that I'm happy never to have heard) and need to choose from one of them, since mine are alas off limits. Any suggestions? Rothorpe (talk) 22:44, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

Wow. I just read the article. Both the content and the number of errors and inconsistencies. You've got your work cut out. I remember that song, "Girl,..", too. I think lipsync or lip sync are all right. It comes from synchronous, right? I wouldn't use a hyphen, either. The -ing form is a problem. If you spell it lip syncing, the syncing could look like it should be pronounced syns ing. Then the question is, which is better: lip synching or lip syncking? I think lip synching follows the pattern of synchronous, synchronicity, etc. (but it looks like it might be pronounced "cinching", as in tightening a belt or a saddle on a horse). So maybe lip syncing is all right. Anyone who is reading the article probably knows what it is and how it's pronounced. Doesn't Wiktionary or the OED have an entry on this? And couldn't you look in some sources about rock groups or singers and see how the various forms of this word are spelled?

Past tense? Let's see.... Lip synced? Lip synched? Lip synct? I think it should parallel whatever you choose for the -ing form.

Regarding other issues, I saw, as I'm sure you will, too, missing commas after years, spaces around an em-dash...

Well, I'm always seeing those! But I content myself with fixing bits of articles like that. Rothorpe (talk) 00:19, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

By the way, I didn't look, but I would guess that you added the "the" before the newspaper reporter (near the beginning of the article); I've got to tell you that the "the" looks and sounds really out of place to me. This must be a real difference between American and British writing, at least all but the most erudite scholarly writing. I'll bet you'd like to leave it in so that we learn how to write properly ;) .CorinneSD (talk) 23:29, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

No, I've removed it, it is unnecessary. I confess I didn't fully connect with your judicious remarks before. In a pop music context it sounds fine without it, just like it did in the NME, when I used to read it in the 70s. Rothorpe (talk) 23:53, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

I use apostrophes for things like this, but the OED has the following examples:

(1963: Maley & Earle Logic Design of Transistor Digital Computers x. 275) If they are synced with a clock and thus with each other.

(1977: Rolling Stone 16 June 12/3) They wanted it synched to within one frame.

(1968: T. Wolfe Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test xi. 147) Somehow this ties in, synchs, directly with what Kesey has just said.

Obviously, which you use would depend on whether you spell it "sync" or "synch" in the rest of the article. — kwami (talk) 23:54, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

Some more:

lip-sync(h), -synchronization; so lip-sync v. intr., lip-synchronized ppl. a., lip-syncing

post-sync(h) (-ˈsɪŋk) abbrev. of post-synchronization, post-synchronize v. Hence post-ˈsync(h)ed ppl. a.; post-ˈsync(h)ing vbl. n.

(1963: Movie Jan. 21/3) The post-synching of the Italian and French versions‥was done without any reference to me.   

(1968: J. Bingham I love, I Kill xii. 160) Doing bits and pieces of reshooting and recording the dialogue, post syncing, as they call it.

(1970: M. Tormé Other Side of Rainbow (1971) iii. 50) While lip-syncing is anathema to most singers, it was Judy's particular teacup.

(1990: Surfer Aug. 62) Martin Potter‥air guitaring and lip-synching to the Aerosmith Run/DMC version of Walk This Way.

— kwami (talk) 00:00, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

Two edit conflicts later: I had already made my choice! Thanks for all your comments, both. In the end I just conformed to the rest of the article. Rothorpe (talk) 00:04, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

What's NME? CorinneSD (talk) 00:14, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

New Musical Express. Rothorpe (talk) 00:16, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

Oh. Thanks. CorinneSD (talk) 00:26, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

...Which meant choosing the CH spelling over the C one. I'm happy with that because one is quite used to CH as K, whereas the C before the E and I virtually demands to be pronounced as an S. Thanks for all the research, which only goes to show what an unsatifactory situation it currently is. My money's on the CH. And the hyphen to go...eventually. Rothorpe (talk) 02:10, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

Caryll Houselander

@Fayenatic london: I just wondered if you could take a look at the comment I posted at Talk:Caryll Houselander. I thought you might be able to answer my three questions. CorinneSD (talk) 14:55, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Petrus Canisius

@Fayenatic london: I just added a reference to Saint Petrus Canisius, my first one. I just wonder if you could check it to make sure I did it right. I've been trying to find a source that will support and explain a statement in Taborites mentioning Peter Kanis, which I discovered is the English name of Petrus Canisius (and I created that link, too), but I haven't been successful. Just generally, Petrus Canisius was a Jesuit who brought the order to Germany and who defended the Catholic faith from the growing reforms that were the precursors to the Protestant Reformation. So I can't figure out what his connection to the Taborites, a rather radical group that rejected quite a bit of the Catholic teachings and religious customs, would be. CorinneSD (talk) 23:27, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks! Adding citations is a great way to improve Wikipedia. However, New World Encyclopedia is not a reliable source. I'll leave you to revert yourself appropriately on that page. – Fayenatic London 08:41, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

I undid my edit. I didn't know New World Encyclopedia was not a reliable source. I had actually never heard of that encyclopedia. I just assumed that any published encyclopedia was a reliable source. I didn't even know that there were encyclopedias that had a bias to them. Wow. I can see I have a lot to learn about reliable sources. Along with undoing the reference, my revert also undid an edit to the sentence which I got from that encyclopedia but which I thought made more sense than the way it was. I had even placed and then removed a note to editors asking how Petrus Canisius could threaten the emperor's son with disinheritance. I thought that was rather the father's prerogative. But since the bit of information I added to the sentence came from that encyclopedia, I'll leave it out until I find reliable information. CorinneSD (talk) 22:00, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

@Fayenatic london: Thank you for your thanks. By the way, I learned from User talk:Esoglou#Taborite that this Pet(e)r Kanis was not Saint Peter Canisius, so the link I created to that WP article was wrong, and Esoglou undid it. CorinneSD (talk) 19:26, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Glad we all got that right, then! I've added a redirect and a hat note on the saint page. – Fayenatic London 11:50, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Mumbai

The editor explained in the edit summary, that was before there was a 'Britain', a United Kingdom. Dougweller (talk) 17:58, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

@Dougweller: Thank you for your comment. In posting a request for opinion at User talk:Rothorpe, I certainly wasn't suggesting you were wrong. I just thought you hadn't remembered or bothered to deal with my comment. I guess I saw, but didn't understand, the editor's edit summary, "pre-act of union", and it shows my sketchy knowledge of British history. I had always thought "British" applied even going way back in history. Sorry about that. CorinneSD (talk) 18:06, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Missing square bracket

@Dougweller: I noticed at the last comment you posted on your User page that you left off one square bracket. Left as is, Slenderdan would not receive notice of the comment. CorinneSD (talk) 17:59, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Well, I guess he saw it anyway. CorinneSD (talk) 18:08, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

User name

@Joshua Jonathan: (Sorry for butting in. I was just curious.) Re the comment you posted at Dougwller's talk page under "New user", don't you mean Stalkford? CorinneSD (talk) 18:16, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Yes. He attracted quite some attention in a very short time. Curiosity is a good character-trait. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 19:15, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Maya Angelou

@Rothorpe: I saw on the internet today that Maya Angelou had passed away. A lovely person. I was reminded of the news when I saw a single line added to the beginning of your talk page, all the way at the top. What is that? Just thought I'd point it out in case you missed it. CorinneSD (talk) 20:49, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Yes, RIP Maya. I hadn't noticed that - seems that new user's first edit got the wrong page; I've sent her a welcome message. Rothorpe (talk) 20:58, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

I think one of her books is "I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings". I discovered while teaching poetry that that is a line in Paul Lawrence Dunbar's poem. I think the poem is "Baltimore". I'll look for it. CorinneSD (talk) 21:00, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

O.K. I did a little research. First of all, I spelled Paul Laurence Dunbar's middle name wrong. It is "Laurence", not "Lawrence". Second, the poem from which Maya Angelou might have taken the title of her book was by Dunbar, but it is titled "Sympathy". I was mixing it up with another poem I like called "Incident" by Countee Cullen. CorinneSD (talk) 15:16, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Polymath WP, my rev. as of 18:17 5 May 2014

Hi CorinneSD! You duly undid my rev. as going counter to the existence of an English-language WP art. "Baldassare Castiglione". However, mind you: you wouldn't find a single occurrence of that Italianized given name (with a single r) even if you scroll down on the entire bulk of Italian literature of these past ten centuries. Of course, truncated/purist forms like Baldessar, Baldassar do exist as autonomous variants. So the only outcome would be realizing that in the English-language WP article, from its title down, the given name is misspelt (as now and then easily happens when dealing with those maddening Italian "doubles"..). Till now I didn't dare to put my hand on it, but something should be done to mend this glaring speck on Wikipedia's honest face. Perhaps you could lend a helping hand, being an insider, so to speak. (In the end, you'd have to undo what you undid). With my warmest regards! Brumon (talk) 23:51, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for your kind note. I don't know Italian, so wouldn't know which is correct in Italian. I just did a Google search and found that the name is spelled with one "r" in Encyclopædia Britannica. Rothorpe at User talk:Rothorpe#Polymath found a footnote in the article that has a name or word with the double "r" spelling. @Fayenatic london: or @Omnipaedista:, do you want to weigh in on this? CorinneSD (talk) 02:22, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

the Italian article it:Baldassarre Catiglione offers even more variations. Spelling was pretty fluid in those days. I don't think we need worry, provided there are redirects, and that the articles in other languages are linked via Wikidata (which they are). It would be appropriate to note major alternative spellings in the first line, and then use the same spelling as the article title thereafter. See the page history of Baldassarre Castiglione for previous moves. – Fayenatic London 22:47, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Thank you both! Actually not inquiring deeper into the WP trove has been my pristine fault... kindof reacted out of hand confronted by a supposedly cavalier attitude towards my cherished mother tongue... To sum it up: Corinne's horizon widening has been an eye opener to me. You wouldn't expect we can breezily pick on glorious EB, would you. Alternative spellings? mh... Since the English "one r" version seemingly applies to all other occurrences of this Italian given name (mostly Renaissance celebs'), the native "two r" form being steady, I'd think we can conclude that, early on, someone/onetime/somewhere in the English-speaking domain misspelt/altered it, so starting a habit. This kind of anglicization has several other instances: Petrarch, Raphael, Titian, Mona Lisa (for Monna Lisa: no sound-minded Italian would ever write/utter this name with a single n letter/sound; by the way, "mona" being a not-so-mild sex-related four letter word, at least in the northern part of the country). In retaliation, we dedicated a number of our streets and piazzas to Tommaso Moro or Isacco Newton... In the end, sire Castiglione would take pride in being in the number. No blame, for sure. Best regards to both. Brumon 79.7.174.18 (talk) 20:13, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Lost picture

@Hafspajen: Can you help me, Hafspajen? A few minutes ago I edited the text at the top of my User page, and saved the changes. Then I scrolled down to look at my pictures and saw that one of them is gone. I had seen it just yesterday or the day before. I looked everywhere in Wikimedia Commons and couldn't find it. It's a watercolor of about two large, light blue flowers. I really loved that picture. Can you help me find it and put it back? Thanks. CorinneSD (talk) 20:37, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Probably Alstroemeria1med.jpg, see this list. Follow the links and email the user. – Fayenatic London 22:54, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Another editor giving up? Hope not.

@Sminthopsis84: I just spent some time catching up on User talk:Hafspajen's talk page, looking at all the photos and skimming the exchanges, and when I got to near the bottom (where I had already left a brief comment earlier today with having looked at anything else), I was dismayed to read that Hafspajen was so upset by some investigation that he (Is Hafspajen he or she?) is giving up editing on Wikipedia. Several other editors and myself have posted comments trying to persuade him/her to come back. Is there anything you can do to persuade him? It would be a great loss if he stayed away.

In the meantime, can you answer the question I posted at the bottom of Hafspajen's talk page about W. H. Auden and a question I posted here on my talk page for Hafspajen? CorinneSD (talk) 22:04, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Hi Corinne. Yes, I too was distressed to see Hafspajen's disappearance and the reasons for it, but also a bit distressed to see people urging him (just a guess as to gender) to come back, because I think that could be a bit upsetting in the circumstances, sort of laying on an obligation. The whole wiki experience is getting me down a bit at present too, with the aggressive spammers who use ANI threats against anyone who tries to combat them and the other-cultures-have-no-right-to-claim-that-their-medical-treatments-are-anything-but-dangerous-nonsense point-of-view seemingly on the ascendency, not to mention the usual everyone-in-this-district-is-the-same-religion-except-for-a-few-who-live-in-this-particular-small-area ugliness. I'm no photo expert like Hafspajen, but I'll try to look at that image size problem tomorrow. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 22:41, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Regarding the image size problem on the Talk page of the article on W. H. Auden, it looks like the question has been answered.

Regarding Hafspajen, I didn't quite understand what it was that upset Hafspajen so much. I thought the investigation was about another editor.

Regarding the difficult-to-deal-with editors, I've noticed, for example, at Talk:Abiogenesis recently, that conservative editors (for example, advocates of creationism) are quite aggressive and persistent. They don't take "no" for an answer and don't seem to pay any attention to explanations by scientists. CorinneSD (talk) 22:50, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

That's good that the image question has been answere.

From what I read of Hafspajen's comments and those of other people involved, it seems that the sockpuppet investigation turned up rather convincing evidence that an editor Hafs had considered a very good friend had another signon that had behaved abusively. The whole thing makes me particularly ill because one of the investigators of this sock-puppet allegation is someone who I consider acted with some cruelty towards another editor whose crime seemed to me to be only that he refused to back down to bullies, including the rather substantial subset of administrators who are bullies. I haven't had the heart to look to see if the alleged abusive behaviour in this recent incident is anything that I would consider to be a problem. Secretly using more than one signon is considered an unforgivable crime. I have more than one signon myself, but I'm open about one of them, and no longer use the other here. (Actually, I should be more careful never to use this signon in commons.wikimedia.org, since my other identity still works there sometimes, because it seems desirable to use my own name when I upload photos.) Wiki editing can get terribly complicated for these political reasons.

About Talk:Abiogenesis, I spend quite a bit of wondering time wondering whether the root of these problems is that wikipedia has become so bureaucratic, that the aggressive people now wield the anti-vandalism tools as weapons against the people who have better understanding of a topic. I've seen that sort of thing done to support plainly counterfactual claims about the 1971 Indo-Pakistan war, that seemed to be motivated by pure racism. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 11:44, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

@Sminthopsis84: That's why it's so important for people with knowledge not to give up editing. Otherwise, these editors will re-write history and dilute science articles.

Regarding the discussion re Hafs, isn't there a level of administrator above the rest to whom you could write? CorinneSD (talk) 14:03, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Bamboo

@Sminthopsis84: Since you are a botanist, maybe you could help answer some questions I posted in two separate comments at Talk:Bamboo under Talk:Bamboo#Ecology and Talk:Bamboo#Genus and geography last fall and to which no one has replied. (I just saw them as I was looking at two recent comments posted today.) CorinneSD (talk) 23:42, 30 May 2014 (UTC)