Wikipedia talk:Reference desk

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New banner

What do others think of the new look by Ocaasi? I don't agree with the new header. As stated above, I want the library bit foregrounded only. What we have now is just a big banner that takes up space. I like the owl logo on the far right, but I don't agree with the big banner. I still think we should emphasise the library bit, but this has not been done anyway. The "library" bit simply needs to be stated somewhere, and linked in several places, in ordinary blue text. We should emphasise its presence, and support it where possible, but I see no need for banners at the top. It just means extra scrolling, which for people like me who use the arrow keys, is annoying. IBE (talk) 05:32, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

I agree with you. I reopened the discussion on this subject yesterday, seven threads above this one. It would be good if discussion could be kept to a single thread rather than having multiple threads on the same topic. --Viennese Waltz 07:32, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Hey folks, just to be clear, I have no intention to claim this page or dictate its design. If you want to update or adapt what I put down, go for it. This recent version was a modification of an older (and even less successful Wikipedia Library design), but I'm still open to suggestions, or just removal. It's your page. Perhaps we can let a few more folks weigh in and go from there. Cheers, Ocaasi ^{t | c} 21:56, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Your actions are all clearly reasonable, so there's no problem there. I'm waiting for a few more people to comment, but be aware that they often don't bother because they edit WP in their downtime, which may not allow much time for anything other than content pages. I get into these talk pages myself only when there is a lull in my outside life, as there is now. IBE (talk) 05:09, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

It's ugly. Get rid of it. And move the actual ref desk links up high enough that the editor doesn't have to scroll down to get to them. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:33, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

Donning my ex-Editor's hat, I agree with Bugs that it should go. It takes up space unnecessarily, textually it repeats something already present just above, and the typeface and logo are both stylistically at odds with the graphic design of the site in general and the page in particular. It's a bit like sticking a classically designed portico on the front of a steel-and-glass office block - nothing wrong with either, but a bad combination. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 212.95.237.92 (talk) 13:01, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

The owl, or whatever it's supposed to be, is freaky-looking and should also be removed. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:14, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

Using an iphone, the splash icons with the links to the desks are now three screens down the page. Please, can we just rip everything else out, or stick it below the splash icons? 86.146.28.105 (talk) 19:58, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Front page edit

Smallish edit of front page of ref desk for simplicity, diff here: [1]. Thanks, IBE (talk) 11:52, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Further diff for another edit, including one by Jack which I endorse. [2] IBE (talk) 12:02, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Seven (7) Day Archiving

Can we switch to (a minium) seven-instead of five-day archiving on all desks? I know for a fact that certain users of ours can only get access weekly at cafes. Seems rather odd to archive their questions before they can se the answers. μηδείς (talk) 17:40, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Agreed, though not super strongly. Threads are effectively exhausted anyway after a few days, so they would only be reading, not posting. Still, that seems like a good thing in itself. IBE (talk) 00:11, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Threads used to be kept visible for up to a week through the transclusion process. Why was that approach abandoned? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:27, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

See discussion here: Wikipedia_talk:Reference_desk/Archive_105#archiving_changes_imminent. I see you may not have been around then, although you are present on what was probably the same page a couple of weeks later. 86.146.28.105 (talk) 20:16, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

I somehow failed to notice that. The thing is, though, I'm pretty sure transclusion was done as a creative alternative to having a week's worth online. It was thought that the page would load faster and you could still get to see a week's worth. Now that the transclusion approach has been trashed, we're back to needing to go the full week online - and some are already getting worried about having too much on the page! Can't have it both ways, y'all! ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:48, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

• I'd just like to clarify that I do have in mind a specific long-time user who can only access the internet weekly at this point. I am sure that must aplly to lots of potential users. An "archived at the end of the eighth day policy would help in that case. Also, I don't think any of the current five-day archival threads are causing paper shortages at this point. μηδείς (talk) 20:43, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

If there is a good-faith fellow-editor interested in using our assistance and eager to learn (and I think I know whom Medeis meant) to whom an eight day period would be of significant service, then I'd suggest we implement it, unless the greater sizes hamper the desks' usability for other editors, of course. That wouldn't be the case for me, and I'm not very high-tech, but I am ignorant about how it might affect other people interested in using the desks. ---Sluzzelin talk 20:53, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Mobile device users might have a problem, although it should not be huge. My China Mobile internet is about as sucky as it gets sometimes (slow and cranky), although I usually use a PC. The mobile is usually only for Google translate. If you used it for WP, it might get very annoying, esp if the mobile site wasn't suitable for some reason. IBE (talk) 00:18, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Mobile devices (and people on slow connections) are my concern as well. The science desk is usually the outlier; it tends to have longer response and also is more likely to have graphics inserted into it (there are currently three); it's not app-breaking, but a 60% increase in size is probably going to create performance issues for some people. I don't doubt that we have users that can only access us once a week, but I also don't doubt that we have users with slow connections and/or metered downloads. Are there any suggestions for how we can cater to both groups? I've long been partial to total transclusion as is done at places like WP:FPC; we could keep the translcuded days small for dial-up users while less frequent visitors could always visit the transcluded subpage to get their follow-up. It's an awfully large-scale change, though. Matt Deres (talk) 15:38, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

One suggestion would be to keep the titles up on the "live" page, but not the actual answers. Then at least they can quickly click on the topics. Something would have to alert a casual user like me that I'm going to load a page from the archives if I click a topic from the "live" page, but that shouldn't be hard. It's quicker than looking up the archives for a list of questions, and it's really speed and convenience that we are talking about here. As a side note, I suggested a while back that we should do a single page that contains all the question headings for all the ref desks, so clicking the topic on this "central" page would take you to that page. In the case of an archived question (eg. 7 days old), it would just take you to the archives. This might help a lot of people as well, in terms of convenience. IBE (talk) 16:02, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

The big problem for my friend, about whom Sluzzelin's presumption is most likely correct (but whom we should not even attempt identify for various valid reasons, including policy ones) is an inability to check for answers or followup questions more frequently than once a week whether with my help or alone. I somewhat understand the phone concern. But don't such users have actual computer access at home, work, or school? I have never sent a text myself, so it is hard for me to see how serious a problem mobile internet telephony really is. 02:22, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

10% of Americans only have broadband access on their phones. That's just Americans. The use of smartphones is taking off in other countries with lower standards of living where people don't have home PCs. I'd pull up those figures too but I'm on my iPad right now and it's not as easy to do the typing and pasting and such. (First world problem) Dismas|^(talk) 03:07, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

I personally really don't know how to address or even look at this. I learned BASIC when I was 12, typeset the college newspaper with Pagemaker on a MAC, had a beeper, spent ten years directly programming people's switch-to-domicile phone service using legacy Bell systems, typeset prestigious magazines on 40 year-old powerhoses, and now in semi-retirement use wikicode fairly well, but feel entirely ignorant of the underlying issues. I am fairly certain I have clarified the position of the user whom I think we should accommodate. I hope people more experienced than I can make a rational decision. μηδείς (talk) 04:10, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

Would going back to the transclusion process fix this problem? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:10, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

If you go back to the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Reference_desk/Archive_105#archiving_changes_imminent and look at the tables you'll see that, no, it would not.

It's been a very long time since any of the desks kept a week's worth of history (transcluded or otherwise). At peak volume, the popular desks would be difficult to use at that size. Today, with volume dropping off, it might be workable.

I hope I don't sound too insensitive, though, when I suggest that before making such a change, I'd really like to hear from the editor who actually needs it. We've got a systen that's evolved over many years to meet the complicated, often contradictory needs of thousands of people, and I'd be reluctant to make a significant change to it just because of what one person claims one other (unnamed) person would like. —Steve Summit (talk) 18:20, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

Not at all insensitive, I also assume many have guessed, but there are very good personal and policy reasons not to out this user. If anyone has any concern they can email me, and I have emailed Steve. As I have tried to emphasize, this is a matter I think we should consider, especially given he declining volume in the 5 day threads. And I realize there may be technical reasons why it would be a bitch to do. μηδείς (talk) 19:34, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

If there are technical or other concerns about doing this, and if the user does have access to the internet every week, they could also check the archived questions and feel free to re-post the thread, or start a new one, linking back, for follow-ups. As long as it's clear it's no one exploiting our willingness to assume good faith (little ponies and stage fencers come to mind, but this isn't about them) I don't think anyone will mind (and our most ardent censor is already on the side of said user with limited access anyway :-). ---Sluzzelin talk 19:45, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

The reason for stopping transclusion seems to be that some editors found it confusing when they thought they were editing the live page and were actually editing the archive. That confused me too - once. It's not a problem. You should go back to the old way and that should resolve the issue. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:50, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

Let's consider the Humanities desk. Before transclusion was abandoned in January, the Humanities desk kept 5.5 days of history, on average. Since that change, the Humanities desk keeps 5.5 days of history, on average. As I understand it, Medeis is requesting that all desks keep 7+ days of history. So how does reinstating transclusion address the issue? (Yes, it would be perfectly straightforward to increase the history period to 7 or 8 or more days, but it would be equally straightforward to do so with or without transclusion. Am I missing something?) —Steve Summit (talk) 20:39, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

It is claimed that too many days visible causes the screen to load too slowly on hand-helds. Is that also true if the data is transcluded? If so, that shoots my theory. How about this alternative? Provide visible links to recent archives. That should fix the page-loading problem and also make it easy to get to recent archives. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:55, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

Transclusion does not affect the load time when viewing. (I'm sure of this for conventional browsers, and mostly sure for mobile.) Transclusion mostly affects the load time when editing. —Steve Summit (talk) 00:55, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

The user does not necessarily have internet access, let's say, every Saturday. They can go to a cafe, or use, on occasion, a third party to contact me via email for free, and only email. Not internet access. If a question is relayed to me and posted on Saturday the 1st, and a request for clarification is posted in the thread on Thursday the sixth, and relayed by me to the third party email and received by and responded to (not always so quickly possible) on Saturday the 8th, we've got Sunday the 9th as the sole day for users to respond to the clarified question, assuming these questions will be archived on the end of that day. The user is looking at three options: brief free email access to me no more frequently than once a week, email access to me at almost 6 hrs wages per MB, or 1 hour of censored internet access at 9 days wages per hour. I think it is reasonable to make this user's access easier if it is not an actual huge problem for other users, something again upon which it is impossible for me to comment. μηδείς (talk) 20:05, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

I agree with the proposal to increase the archive time to 7 days. Especially since the question volume is going down slightly.

However, I would also like to suggest that if it's costing someone two-weeks' salary to ask the Ref Desk a question, they're probably not going to get their money's worth. 74.113.53.42 (talk) 15:26, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

You misread me somewhat. The user has access to an hour at an internet cafe for the price of 1/3 of a mnths salary. They can also email me at 2 days wages per MB when they have the money. They can also send emails limited to about 600KB for free, but using a friend's access, and only once a week at best, meaning a question refered to me and answered within the week will be useful, but most questions require follow ups, in which case a "archived at the end of the 8th day" setup is all that would really work. Users may have noticed I have posted several questions on this editor's behalf.At this point acess before July will be difficult and infrequent. μηδείς (talk) 22:28, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Banned user

[3] is a banned user right? Geolocates to Perth, signs with a name just before the IP sig, and [4] looks very familiar. I think the procedure is to just delete the comments and leave an edit summary explaining why, but I can't remember if that is correct. I also don't remember the user's previous name to put it in the summary. Katie R (talk) 14:37, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Some people believed Floda, Keit, and Wickwack to be the same person, and needed to be banned. I personally felt that that user or users caused less problems here than many account-holding editors with long residence. The Perthians will usually provide solid references if asked, and seldom say anything that is patently false (again, unlike some others here.) So I'm inclined to ignore the ban, unless a specific response is disruptive. Search the archives on the talk page for previous discussions here if you'd like more of the background. See also the 84... IP that some people think represents a person that has been banned in the past. Again, I don't care, as long as they play nice. I personally come here to share references, to learn, and to teach. As long as respondents aren't actively interfering with my ability to do so, I don't care about what they did in the past. SemanticMantis (talk) 16:06, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

I was around during all that, I just couldn't remember the details, and like you I don't care enough to delete it in most cases. The diff I linked is one of the more problematic ones because of the attitude towards Steve, and is what made me recognize the OP. That sort of attitude rather than friendly corrections gets people into defensive mode and can throw off conversations, but Steve doesn't seem like the sort of contributor to get sucked into that anyways. Katie R (talk) 16:48, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

The general (possibly unofficial, these days?) policy is that if you can tell from the edits that it's a banned user, you can feel free to unsummarily undo any and all edits they make, without even identifying who they are (just say they're a banned user, in your summary: if they push back, you can identify them to an admin). But, if they're not causing any trouble, and don't explicitly identify themselves, you can also choose to let it go, and hope they quietly rehabilitate themselves. So you can absolutely remove any of their edits that you don't like, for whatever reason, no questions asked. I think we'd all support you in that. And you can also quietly leave them be, and not alert the more tendentious editors to their presence. It's entirely up to you. 86.146.28.105 (talk) 18:21, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

I agree with 86. Per WP:DENY, WP:Topic ban and Wikipedia:Editing restrictions, you're free to delete contributions from Wickwack. And yes, it's clearly Wickwack who has been hanging around like a bad smell, replying regularly and even getting help with Japanese translations despite the topic ban. But such deletions aren't required. I think most of us have been ignoring Wickwack because it's clear they're not going away and deleting their contributions wastes more time than it's worth, particularly since they doesn't seem to be troling. (I can't speak for others but I recognise the majority of Wickwacks many contributions before I even reach the signature.)

Although Wickwack seems to be resurrecting one of the historic identities, I haven't seen any sign so far that they are repeating the problems that earned them their topic ban, namely pretending to be different editors and using these different identies to reenforce each other's claim. (Which is a blatant WP:Sock violation, not to mention thorough dishonest, I regularly make jokes about the ethics of Perth or Australian engineers to an engineer I know as a result. I think Wickwack brought up engineering ethics before themselves but I guess those lessons didn't stick.)

In terms of the Steve Baker thing, IIRC one of the reasons Wickwacks blatant socking emerged was because people were concerned about the way they were interacting on the RD. But it wasn't the reason they were banned per se. Either way, I will definitely defend any deletions of Wickwack's contributions if it comes to it. (Just as I will for other banned users who are sticking around like Cuddlyable3.)

Speaking of banned users, if anyone does want to waste a bit of time with that sort of thing, there seems to be a new User:Bowei Huang sock which is probably worth chasing up at some stage (based on their history).

Of course banned users are welcome to actually try and reverse their ban so their contributions aren't randomly deleted. In the specific case of Wickwack, there's been a general feeling since the ban itself that Wickwack would be welcome to register one account and stick to it. Heck even if they were to adopt one identity on the reference desk and stick to it always even without an account, I suspect they may have been able to convince the community to accept them back. I don't know if things have really changed much despite their continual blatant ban evasion, although this could happen if they continue to annoy people. However they've shown no interest even when it was suggested. (As I believe I mentioned before, their comments from before the ban regarding their reasons for not wanting an account suggests they could be a historic or even current problematic editor/account somewhere on en.wikipedia. Although if it was historic, realisticly all the logs would have long since expired and AFAIK no one ever identified them with anyone else so it seems unlikely a CU request would have ever been successful.)

P.S. For clarity, I should mention I'm using the term 'banned users' widely to include those are almost definitely defacto banned based on multiple blocked accounts or whatever.

Nil Einne (talk) 21:46, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Wickwack is from that part of the world. In terms of socking, when it's difficult to demonstrate for sure, sometimes the optimal path is to judge the contribs of a given "suspected but not sure" as standalone. That is, are they outrageous enough on their own that it doesn't really matter whether it's a sock or a new user? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:56, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

That's seconded, and thirded, from me. (I'm using the votes of my various sockpuppets ;).) IBE (talk) 04:59, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Right. >:) Jut to clarify, I'm not saying we shouldn't go after banned users. Only that sometimes the effort can exceed that of simply evaluating a given user's edits and taking standalone action. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:31, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

A small suggestion - refreshment break

If editors are finding things acrimonious on the desks, and want a break from them and from arguing in general, may I suggest that WP:FAC is always looking for more eyes. You get to read about new things, be as pedantic as you like (with people thanking you for it), and build the encyclopedia in a measurable way you can feel proud of. It might be refreshing, if you need to be refreshed. 86.146.28.105 (talk) 23:11, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Interesting suggestion, thanks! SemanticMantis (talk) 15:30, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

This is an excellent suggestion. I'd like to suggest to @Baseball Bugs: that he and I both go and lend a hand there, in the interest of profitable co-operation and putting our skills to good use. Bugs - would you be interested? AlexTiefling (talk) 15:42, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

As in reviewing the recommended articles? I don't know if I have the qualifications to do that. But I'll give it a look. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:20, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

The "qualifications"? Read this page: Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2008-04-07/Dispatches, then you'll be as qualified as anyone. 86.146.28.105 (talk) 17:03, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Seeking Advice

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Is there a list of banned topics that are not allowed to be discussed on the reference desk? I have just now experienced this and I could see no warning about topics of culture and race being disallowed, however I fully respect the rule against it and will not make that mistake again. I would just like to know before I submit a question if it breaks the rules or not, so a list of such topics would be great. Also do I need to put trigger warnings before potentially emotionally distressing topics so that people who might feel upset about them can look away and not read it? Many thanks for your help. CyrilSneer90 (talk) 22:30, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

I think the issue is that it's a forum-type question. You would be better off seeking a forum that's into those topics, and then you can have a lively debate. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:33, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you're talking about, but the reference desks are WP:NOTCENSORED. At least, not by topic. Meaning, I can ask questions about necrophilia or misogyny or slavery (or any other topic that might be offensive to some readers), and, as long as I'm asking in good faith (e.g. WP:AGF, WP:POINTY), I can expect referenced responses to my questions here. We do have guidelines for questions and responses linked at the front page. Also you might like to read WP:NOT in general, or WP:CRYSTAL, WP:SOAP, and WP:FORUM specifically. SemanticMantis (talk) 05:19, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

I am talking about this. The pages are clearly censored because it was removed. I have read through the rules at the top of the page and it does not break any of them, it is not a forum topic or a request for "opinions" it is a legitimate question asking about a documented social phenomenon to be answered with citations. If I had asked about styles of hats instead of skin color, the question would not have been removed. I respect the censorship and will abide by it, but please don't claim these pages aren't subject to censorship when they are. I would like a list of the banned topics (race being one I now know of). If the list is held by oral tradition could someone write it down for me. Thank you. CyrilSneer90 (talk) 10:44, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

If you had asked the exact same 'question', in the exact same way, about styles of hats, it would also be an attempt to provoke chat and argument, rather than an honest search for references, out of a desire for information. However, you probably would have successfully got the regulars arguing, because it would have been slightly less obvious. 86.146.28.105 (talk) 10:53, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

I would have maybe hatted it, or at any rate, made no effort to answer it. Maybe I would have replied by just pointing you to the articles (which is not the same as answering the question, pedants take note). I find Andy's edit summary (in removing the post) pointlessly excessive, but I do not object to the removal. The question just looks too engaging (debate-wise), and simplistic in its summary of the issues involved. Look up multiculturalism, eugenics, and race first, then you will refine your question so it is more useful, and more reference-desk like. IBE (talk) 14:34, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying. Race is certainly not a banned topic. Removal of questions that don't conform to our guidelines is not topical censorship. There is no list of banned topics, ans I suspect you know. Your question had a lot of embedded assumptions, many of which are probably not true, and it starts to sound a bit like a conspiracy theory (Really? There are higher powers telling us who to breed with? Where?). You also did not specifically ask for references, and you did not present any documentation of any social phenomenon. If you have a genuine interest in the topic, this question could be asked: "Are there any books or articles about how multiculturalism is valued in different places and times? I am also interested in books about racial mixing and racial purity movements." You could also share any links or documentation that you might have. It's not the topic that caused removal. Especially when a topic might be off-putting or controversial, we (askers and respondents) should endeavor to make our statements WP:NPOV, and steer clear of WP:SOAP. SemanticMantis (talk) 14:56, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

I'm closing this thread. Feel free to reopen if you feel there's something worth discussing but note that the editor who started this discussion has been blocked by a CU. Nil Einne (talk) 00:16, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

A significant number of recent questions on Language desk seem to have been asked by accounts subsequently blocked for sockpuppetry

At least User:YeastyTrains, User:Bg4u, User:KieraCameron2077, User:Wpytgdp... AnonMoos (talk) 01:34, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

It might be a good time for a friendly admin here to put a short-term semi on the page. I've also put in a request at WP:RFPP. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:06, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

It's been done, but the disease seems to be spreading to other desks. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:08, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

It hasn't "spread", they've been doing it unsubtly for a few days across all desks. I figured we were all giving our most boring responses and letting them get quietly blocked, without any of the exciting discussion that they so desperately want to provoke. 86.146.28.105 (talk) 18:39, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Just to be a little more specific, in case this wasn't obvious: they want people pointing out that they are a sock. They want people pointing out that they are banned. They want that sort of attention. When you do that, especially on the public-facing pages, you are giving them the exact thing they are trying to achieve. There is a reason we have WP:DENY. 86.146.28.105 (talk) 18:43, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

The IP below geolocates to Venezuela, which is one of the sources of recent vandalism and socking. Checkusers won't do anything about IP's, so a friendly admin will have to keep zapping them as they come along. But what about the questions? Some of them are obviously fire-starters, while some others are inane but harmless. So what's the solution? Don't give any answers at all? Or semi the pages for a few days? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:50, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

They have failed to get any of the arguments they have aimed for: we have generally given boring answers, and engaged politely with each other. We have all been smart enough to spot them. They have been swiftly blocked as they popped up, and no disruption has been caused. So, if you see questions you want to remove, remove them: that is the policy for blocked users. If you want to leave them up, to receive boring, polite answers that potentially build the wiki, do so. No need for hats at all. This is the same as always. 86.146.28.105 (talk) 18:57, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

halp

Hi why am I banned from the language page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.203.253.237 (talk) 10:40, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

The reference-desk pages have recently been subject to an attack of vandalism. To prevent further disruption, the language desk has been semi-protected (no editing by unconfirmed users or users without accounts) until 07:25 UTC on June 3—that is, less than two days from now. You can wait till then, or if you don't want to wait, you can post your question here, and I'll copy it to the language desk. Deor (talk) 11:06, 1 June 2014 (UTC)