Talk:Great power

Italy

Italy is a great power considering economy and military.It has Nato sharing and it has the 9th nominal GDP in the world.Italy is member of the G7 (economic and political) and the G8 (political,in fact G8 was created for Russia just for political reasons). Italy has a national net wealth that is larger than the british one (4.92% of the net wealth in the world vs 4.88% of the net wealth in the world) according to the Credit Suisse Global Wealth Report October 2013 .Italy has with 11.9 trillions $ of net wealth a weight 12 times bigger than Russia that in fact isn't in G7.Italy has a national net wealth very very close to the french and to the german one.Net national wealth is a concept very important in economy (above all in weak world economy period),more than the GDP today so cited.

So or Germany and Japan aren't great powers because of lacking in military compared to Italy (or UK and Russia compared to Italy aren't great powers for national net wealth that is the criteria used in the G7)or Italy is a great power. Even India could be cited as great power for its national wealth and its nuclear arsenal. Or Great power means "the main winners of the WWII with a permanent seat and with the right of veto in UN" (even if this is a dated vision of great power because of UN weight very low in the world-see wars and other situations)or on the other side in the great powers group must be added at least Italy and India.Glc72 (talk) 08:48, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

In Databook Credit Suisse Global Wealth Report October 2013 you can find all data about all the world updated at the 1st October 2013.I posted OFFICIAL ciations (above all from Italian Parliament where is officially declared that Italy has its own nukes produced from late '60s till 1976 in CAMEN structure and they are still under secret of state) to avoid many talkings that try to change reality.Glc72 (talk) 08:58, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

You will need to find some reliable secondary sources which specifically claims Italy to be a great power. We cannot ourselves determine who is a great power based on statistics and other circumstantial information as that would be original research. --Saddhiyama (talk) 10:45, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Here are some citations that you wanted for avoid an original research and to claim Italy great power.The newspapers and academics consider Italy ALREADY a great power with all its limits like all other ones.The academic Parag Khanna defines Italy a "great industrialized power". Glc72 (talk) 10:54, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

There is a broad consensus among the academic community that China, Britain, France, Russia, Germany, Japan, and the United States are the worlds contemporary 'Great Powers'. Likewise, India is considered by several prominent academics to either to be emerging as or having already emerged as a Great Power in its own right (due to its rapidly growing economic, political, cultural and military influence around the globe). Traditionally Great Powers are the worlds most influential and powerful states "having the ability to exert its influence on a global scale" (quoting from article). So ask yourself; Where does Italy meet this criteria? And on what major international forums of discussion is Italy present so it can exert its influence? The answer im afraid is it doesn't and it isn't. Italy does not exert global influence and power like a true Great Power - in fact, beyond the borders of the European Union Italy is largely ignored and its opinions irrelevant. Look at the recent talks with Iran last month - the BBC reports Iran "will meet six major world powers at the UN this week to discuss Tehran's nuclear programme... Britain, China, France, Russia and the US - and also Germany (the P5+1 group)". You see, when tough decisions are to be made that affect every nation in the world it is the Great Powers which are consulted, and it is their opinions and decisions that the worlds listens to, not Middle Powers like Italy. Consider this too, within the European Union, it is Germany, Britain and France which are considered the leaders and most powerful states of Europe (they are described as the EU three!!) - so even within the borders of the European Union Italy is only considered as a Middle Power.Antiochus the Great (talk) 13:09, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

We are beginning with the opinions and the bla bla.I already image people like you arriving and using the same themes.I can cite you tons of citations that deny the states you cited aren't great powers.We already know that in Wikipedia english CIA,FSB and others act by normal names to make propaganda with higher activity in economy,history,military and policy articles.This article is one of those ( Superpower as similar ones too like the presentation of their states).PROPAGANDA can be done in many ways..rising himself and the friends or lowing the image of enemies ,or both of them or even IGNORING.Germany is in that group because was the first to offer the nuclear to Teheran.These are your opinions.Not reality.Italy is in the G7 (the most important) ,the G8 and the G20 and is always consulted in particular moments at every level.And you write that nobody consults Italy?))))Who did tell you that Italy is never consulted?,the Italian President?)))))Tell me it ,because it's a news for the italian medias.Italy has 2 carriers (1 medium and 1 small that your UK hasn't-even in my hearth is mine too because i trust EU) and a same size fleet of air force and army.Same for Germany that has even a very small navy.And what about Japan?Is it involved in particular groups?) Italy has a greater national wealth than UK,a greater golden reserve and so on.Italy has a great influence in EU and above all over the world.I can post you tons of citations that say that EU it's impossible without Italy for political,economic,military and cultural reasons.May be it acts in softer way and it's less chovinist.So how can be UK a great power if Italy overtakes it?Yours is really an original research .Italian good sources are like the british ones. BBC at the moment isn't God,at least in the official Italy and EU considerations.I set official citations ,not opinions.EU is really the Superpower considering 4 great powers inside of it.They are so also for this reason.EU allows them (like all the other 24 states) to act with much more influence in the world.Anyway i posted data and citations that Saddhiyama asked .End of the game.TIME to update article.Glc72 (talk) 13:36, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Hi. You'll have to achieve broad consensus before any inclusion(or omission) is made from the article. and by broad consensus, I mean atleast 15 editors from the whole world. Not 3 or 4 from a same country and region^{sarcasm intended} This article is seen by hell lots of people from around the world so what we do will directly affect the minds of all of them. And yes, you do need scholarly references to support Italy. Mere statistics won't do. If only military statistics are considered, then I fear the UK and France are puny compared to Russia or China or even India! Another important requirement for a great power is shamelessly needlessly interfering in other countries' sovereign affairs in the name of world peace which I'm afraid both India and Italy won't usually do..Don't you think? Thanks, ƬheStrikeΣagle ^sorties 14:52, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

You wrote me something obvious.Italy and india are 2 great powers.About broad i already wrote about CIA,FSB and similar ones that invent by themselves their postion that isn't trustble because it derives from their propaganda.We already know many many names of people that act for them. To be chovinist doesn't mean to be strong at all.May be many times it means to be boaster just to cover the problems inside.Italy like EU is the responsible of the security of Vatican City and a person with a normal knowledge easily realize the importance of this things.The problem is that i posted citations at every level (economy,military,academics and news ).Now my 2 questions at the beginng must be answered in good feith and in a polite way.Or A or B.C there isn't.Here is time to update.Glc72 (talk) 15:04, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

I mean not extremely strong. Look at UK and France? Removing Nukes, how strong are they? The thing is you will have to exert force outside your country with the small forces you have, like UK or France does. Although India has a larger military than UK or France, the reason it's called a second-tier power is because of it's non-aggressive attitude. Atleast to be called a great power, you will have to exert hard power on others, something Italy and India seem to be missing. As I earlier told, my statement doesn't endorse anything. You will have to get consensus and the discussion must be closed as successful by an admin. Only then you will have a chance to add Italy. A few months ago, there was a mis-adventure when 3 UK-US users established consensus among themselves and removed Russia and Brazil from the Potential Superpowers list. This was later revoked. ƬheStrikeΣagle ^sorties 15:15, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Italy like India are great powers.They overtake or in economy aspects ,or in military aspects ,or in demography aspects or in cultural aspects many countries cited as Great power at great fanfare.For istance Italy overtakes Russia and UK in many economic aspects,India overtakes in demography all except China and so on.If we don't consider them it's like we can cancel mostly all the great powers.I just remeber that Italy like EU is responsible for the Vatican City security.A normal person with a normal knowledge realizes easily what it means.Till now i met an english , a danish and an indian.I'm waiting for french,chinese, USA and russian people.Many times they say to live in a country that is different from their own....an old game.I checked the article Superpower and i saw that Brazil and Russia are still there.Why?They aren't potential superpowers,but i don't care of it because time will show that they lack a lot in economy and demography and not only.I don't want to be liked by people saying well of everybody,i just want truth on citations and good sources.In "Middle power " article Italy like India are even compared to Norway and Ukraine and Thailand)))))There's a limit to the ridiculous.I posted main citations in economy,military,news and academic opinions.Now broad or not broad there is all what is required to post new things.It's time to update.Glc72 (talk) 15:27, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Glc72, I don't necessarily think military power alone defines a Great Power. Neither Germany or Japan use their militaries to exert influence around the world and China can only exert military power in its own region, yet these three nations are strongly considered Great Powers. The academic community tend to cite both hard and soft power when it comes to power in international relations and currently the overwhelming opinion of political scientists and historians who have published material on this subject do not consider Italy as a Great Power and agree that its influence post WW2 is that of a Middle Power. For the record StrikeEagle I agree, I don't think comparative military size directly translates into military power - For example, while India's, China's and Russia's armed forces are significantly larger than those of Britain or France, it is Britain and France who maintain globally deployable armed forces (E.g Britain maintains the capacity to deploy 30,000 troops anywhere in the world at short notice on a peacetime budget, while Russia in the 2008 South Ossetia War struggled to deploy just over 10,000 troops into a country it shares a land border with!!!). Glc72, I suggest you take peoples advice and try and gain a consensus when you have provided adequate academic citations supporting Italy as a Great Power. Merely quoting statistics and giving your own personal opinions will get you nowhere.Antiochus the Great (talk) 16:12, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

You are lasting with your boring and useless opinions .Now you tried to low my postion suggesting me to find better citations.As i saw you did nothing in "Potential superpower" discussion at the moment.You say "nowhere" to other people.Hold your suggests for you.China like India have military influence all over the world and not only in their region.I posted good sources and VERY ADEQUATE citations.If Italy isn't a great power (according to the criteria used for Germany and Japan) neither UK and Russia are great powers.They can be considered so only as main winners of the WWII and owners of a permanent seat and veto in UN (that today has weight 0 seing many wars and situations) but in this case Japan and Germany should be out.If they stay in,also Italy (and India in my opinion) must be in.Italy is a great power in the article till '40s when it lost war.Italy isn't set as great power only because lost war (and so permanent seat and veto power) and not of because of other criteria.Was Italy more powerful and influent in 1940 (when it is described as great power) than today?Academics and common people doubt a lot of it even if we compare with the today changed global situation.Italy today in EU, ISAF and UN actions is one of the main contributors (more than Germany,Japan and others) at every level.On the close Lybia (the last main war) italian aircrafts launched more bombs and every kind of missiles than all other allies even if in world medias it seemed all different.Italy was the 3rd largest operator in Iraq and 1st on the former Yugoslavia too (also here in media it appeared all different,this is the world of the appearing not of the being as many people begin to realize).Did you know that Italy was 3rd in launching a satellite in the space and is the main producers of launchers like Vega and others?Italy owns the 3rd largest golden reserve on Earth. But these are statistics and history. As a russian said "Today UK is just an island of which nobody cares of it".France compared to UK it's much more complete to be discussed as great power.I've my uncle in Liverpool and he is even Sir.So i know well UK and i don't like to talk about UK.Now that i posted it's time to change article in the A or in the B sense otherwise all it's really original. Glc72 (talk) 16:56, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

• Comment :- See, i agree about India, in fact i had added India into "Great Power" template here, but i got to know that these subjects needs consesus. India is the great power. There are many reasons, but i would note some right here:-

Regarded as Great Power for over 40 years. Nuclear weapon, Aircraft Carriers, 3rd largest populated military, etc. 3rd Largest GDP PPP, being 4.7 Trillion, Others like USA we know that they got high debt, and China is already alleged so many times to have faked it's GDP[1], [2], India has no such crisis, nor it's alleged with such allegations. Recently, the Cyclone handling of India was impressive too.

There would be many more reasons, but really, i don't find much about Italy. OccultZone (talk) 03:22, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Don't worry Occultzone (" i want to help you ,but..." , i know this minding...you didn't find much but something yes,i know this kind of acting in psychology) i already posted my ADEQUATE CITATIONS.Articles (so also this one) must be based on reality and good citations and not on not clear ways (with ridiculous "do ut des") that are very common in policy,military and economy articles "agreements" or "broad consensus" in Wikipedia talks ( i just reported the propaganda of secret services in these english articles). Italy has a larger nominal GDP (that is mostly nothing without a STRONG NET NATIONAL WEALTH aside) than India even in the foresable future according to IMF,a larger national net wealth (same) a higher HDI (nobody cites it to be a great power)and so on.India like China and Russian Federation grew with capitals that arrived from EU and USA funds.Their economic situation is in EU and USA hands.Among these 3 states only China has a sufficient national net wealth able to defend itself from a severe period with a world economic depression.Net national wealth is much more important than a GDP in the world power,in fact G7 is based on it.How many so called great powers aren't in the G7 (that is economic and political)?How many of them are lower than Italy?How many aren't in the G8 (that is essentially political)?What about HDI levels?How many of them aren't still developed countries? Many people have no idea about differences of net national wealth and GDP. I well remember to be a real superpower the political being must have a high HDI,a high national wealth,a high military level,a high cultural level and an influence on world policy at the needing.It must be able to hit everyhwere without receving back a lethal hit and in this sense the last absolute or real superpowers were British Empire and USA from 1900 till 1949 when other developed nukes.We must translate this at the great power criteria on a "lower level".Today we can consider superpowers or potential relative (and not real,absolute) superpowers EU,USA and China.Italy has a strong diplomatic system too.I just you remember that the EU Central Bank President (or mister €) is italian.A great power must be with a high economic level,a high military level( I remember you thatnuclear winter and so the death of all living being on Earth can be caused or by 100 Hiroshima nukes that where not H bombs exploded close to the Equator or according to Sagan scientist by a 50 Mt explosion on different points of Earth) and with a high cultural and so political influence in the world.Germany has NATO sharing on 20 B61 nukes ,Italy on 40 B61 type 3,4 and 10 ( i know 2 pilots that flied on aircrafts with B61 and they laugh when they listen the tale of the 2 keys in Nato sharing.There are costantly aircrafts of the Italian Air Force flying with nukes inside.They said me it was better to die in the explosion of the bombs they launched than dieing in a nuclear winter) and has according to Italian Parliament Acts of 23/01/1969 that i just cited upon its own nukes (otherwise go to read them officially in the Italian Parliament Camera dei Deputati).I remember you that Italy has the secret of State (so top secret matters) like all states. Italy and India for their past and present are so.If they are compared to many so cited in great fanfare great powers they overtake in many many aspects to them . About Germany and Japan i doubt like many many academics that they weren't great powers in 40's.About USSR i doubt like many many academics that during Stalin period is was less influent than Russia today (in fact it lost after 1992 all its main allies).USSR just lived in a different economic and political world.If they are in they were in also in '40s, and if in they are in today with the "new criteria" Italy and India must be there too.I neither lose time to cite Italy on the cultural level (scientific and humanistic)that today is heavily influencing world (even english it's full of words that derives from latin) because it would take several of my lifes.I just can tell you that the Pope that decided TIME upon world lived close my places.Why all the world accepted at the official level his TIME ( i remember you that is the 4th dimension)?Let me guess..was (and is) he powerful?Thinking of it the sole silent real superpower in the world is Vatican.But this is just a sector that is aside Italy (but i remember again Italy with EU is responsible of Vatican City security). I set what was asked now it's time to choose between A and B solutions.I studied in Florence (in its University in the recent times just to mention some names of many teached Mario Draghi,today EU Central Bank President and Franco Cardini that is considered the greatest living academic of history.I'm sure Professor Franco Cardini ,that i heard many times, would change many articles of Wikipedia in policy and history ) where Romans before and later Renaissance and so western world minding that dominates this world started.It's difficult to tell me tales. 151.40.64.80 (talk) 08:41, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Considering, Germany is regarded as great power, while Italy has lower amount of crisis than Germany has, i am sure Italy can be considered as a great power. How many reliable sources you have got to push this statement? Write them down here. OccultZone (talk) 05:05, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Explain me what is "crisis" in Italy that sounds like PROPAGANDA and what is crisis (in relative terms to compare) in India or Russia or China and others to realize the situation in terms of HDI or national net wealth or incomes or weak currencies or so on (it would need one day to write all the list) first of all.They ( these not developed countries)are in an everlasting crisis compared to Italy and not only.Did you know that an italian has a net wealth (195925$) per capita higher than a german around less than (160000$) and a japanese (178000$)?Only french and US citizens are richer than an italian in the G7 and in the great powers.Italian is 10 th in the world as net wealth per capita and 5th as developed country (6th considering China that isn't developed).Italy+France net wealth have the same size of China.Japan has similar size of China.Italy has same size (as national net wealth) of Germany,France and UK.And this is crisis in Italy? 195925 $ per capita as net wealth is crisis? And what about Japan situation that like USA is covering crisis printing currency like paper for newspapers?EU Central bank didn't do this only by LTRO and for smaller amounts and in fact € rose vs $ and all weak currencies.With tapering $ will rose like € against weak currencies.Italy has € like Germany as currency and as i told you the monetary policy is ruled by and italian that leads the ECB board.EU is so important (with 4 great powers inside or 2 as you like) and so big that it's impossible to explain it and its situation in an article,only an aknowledge man would try to do it.Second i posted a very ADEQUATE CITATION.I saw many times in article things added only by a citation.Even in this one.I will find more articles if you like.I thank you to have realized what i explained (not all are able to realize that or don't want in bad feith).Now the matter is or explaining that A) the a great power is a main nation (Russia too even it's just a part,around a 50%, of the USSR of which has the official heritage) that wan the WWII with permanent seat and veto power in UN ( that as i said is today with weight 0 considering last wars and similar actions-i remember that Italy is one of the main contributors also in economic terms to UN,this crashing and dated "house") or that B) great power is described according to other criteria and in this case Italy and India are in. Glc72 (talk) 07:10, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

In this article the Vice President of the EU Commission answers "YES" if Italy is a GLOBAL POWER (globale in italian means more than great,just to be clear).He even describes all Italian situation.People in the italian state know to be a great power like a french in France or a british in UK or a german in Germany ,this is the reality.The citizens with an average or good knowledge know that they live in a superpower named EU.The rest are opinions.And this is an article from a very very important official EU member.Try to shut up or ignore him.Now it's clear that there's more than something wrong in this article (and not only).Glc72 (talk) 07:58, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Here is the G8 whose members (so Italy is in it) are defined great powers in french television.The officiality of the claim is clear.I don't know strange languages.It's time to update this article otherwise we are going to face the New Year Day. Silence by other people in latin and italian means "Silenzio assenso" or YES.Is "broad consensus" (easy to find as secret service using people of your same state in different embassies on the world and different IP from different areas that support your opinions for propaganda,and knowing some countries well they could have done it even in "Superpower article" that is an article worse than "Superpower";this last one is not bad but has inside the russian claim posted that is totally non sense there.) better known also as "do ut des" or PROPAGANDA agreements important in all this? It's really a low level thing this acting.It's more a broadcasting propaganda site than an encyclopedia in this way above all in policy,economy,society and history articles.More than a talk it seems a bad copy of the Purgatory of the Dante's Divina Commedia.Wikipedia in the correct way suggests always to be polite and honest.I will suggest to read the article to Professor Cardini if he has time to do it .I saw upon David and Antiochus the Great ,2 british (so it appears) that i support for intellectual honesty in their positions in Potential superpowers that i just read (Russia and Brazil lack a lot in demography and economy and not only to be mentioned as potential superpowers;i'm sorry for my russian girlfriend,but this the reality.Russia is just a great power for military and geographical reasons-in the sense also of raw marterials-,nothing else), that agree for Japan and Germany that must stay in,so they agree for Italy and India too according to rational criteria of high level academy.I don't like to invent 15 editors to support me. Glc72 (talk) 08:34, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Ops i just remember you the italian activity in news just to show you that is a Great Power.The meeting on Iran relation was presented by the High Rapresentant of EU C. Ashton that rapresents all EU states.The US Secretary of State Kerry,the Israel Prime Minister and Iran government members will meet in Rome with Italian Authorities.The Italian Prime Minister is talking with US President about free the trade agreement EU-US. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Glc72 (talk • contribs) 08:45, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Here you can read official news.IGNORING OF PEOPLE IS SIGN OF FEAR TO BE "DEFEATED" AND OF STRONG IGNORANCE IN THE LATIN SENSE OF MISSING KNOWLEDGE.Study latin and you'll realize better the meaning of words.THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF VERY ORIGINAL ARTICLE,ERNIO48 CAN REALIZE.Glc72 (talk) 08:51, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

I have a horribly busy academic schedule and I'm too lazy to study the whole essays you have written above. So I'll keep it short. Taking a mike and shouting won't help you a bit in this issue. Believe me. Personal attacks on other users will take you no where. And Yes, we also ignore people when we feel they have not been making too much sense..won't we Antiochus the Great? ƬheStrikeΣagle ^sorties 16:06, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Like you Strike Eagle I too am bogged down with University and have little time for this discussion. Enjoy your studies!! Antiochus the Great (talk) 16:20, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Italy is what Italy is, say what you will. A regional power to be kind, she lacked influence to alone deal with conflicts on her doorstep with either the Yugoslavian disintegration or the Libyan uprising. It must be frustrating not accepting one's limitations. Doyna Yar (talk) 04:18, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

Hey a lot of people here ))))I try to image your busy days to ignore!!!!Hi hi.About Italy is a great power, don't worry.Reality it's different from Wikipedia.Today all people in web from all the world even the less prepared (or in bad feith) can write his own fantasies.Citations, broad consensus and bla bla bla are good for people that makes PROPAGANDA for secret services or live not well with himself.The guy just upon talked about frustration about Italy that in its own article is described already as a middle power (some very original administrator JUST deleted main middle power; it means they consider me and not a little to act so quicly))))) even it is a great one.Italy as news report launched more bombs and rockets on Lybia and former Yugoslavia than others (just to stay at the doorstep.Change sources)))May be he knows well frustration to describe it so well with strong hate and without knowing reality)))It even calls Italy SHE.Hahahahahaha.IT'S IMPOSSIBLE THAT ITALY WAS A GREAT POWER IN 1940 AND NOT NOW ))))) WE ARE IN THE COMICS.AN ORIGINAL ARTICLE ERNIO 48 .I even noticed that the Usa guy that wrote just before me follows me in Wikipedia.He doesn't know that is don't consider Usa people because they are not at the EU level.He is not so busy like you to do it!HIHIHIHI))))I forgot to say HALLO to ALL the SECRET SERVICES THAT ACT IN THESE KINDS OF ARTICLES (EU ones,CIA,FSB AND SO ON) HALLOOOOO!!!!! Glc72 (talk) 11:20, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

Oh for goodness sake, Italy is not a great power. Live with it or live in your fantasy, but either way stop ranting and wasting electrons on Wikipedia talk pages! 81.135.128.178 (talk) 11:57, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

Ah, I see he's actually been banned from Wikipedia - there shall be peace! (For now, until another loony turns up on these pages, as they always do...) 81.135.128.178 (talk) 12:03, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

Italy has 2 aircraft carriers, numerous LHDs and LPDs, AWACS, aerial refueling aircraft, etc. (power projection toys which Germany doesn't have.) It is a part of both the F-35 JSF consortium and the Eurofighter consortium. It produces the world's most prestigious cars like Ferrari, Maserati, Lamborghini, Pagani, Alfa Romeo, Lancia, etc. FIAT has taken over the Chrysler Group, including Jeep. Italy's fashion designers such as Armani, Versace, Gucci, Prada, Valentino, Trussardi, Cavalli, Paciotti, Bulgari, Dolce & Gabbana, MaxMara, etc. are the world's top brands. 78.181.152.137 (talk) 19:25, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

How the amount of famous brands can affect the status of Italy as a great power? Hyundai is a famous South Korean car manufacturer, which sells vehicles all around the world and it doesn't make South Korea a great power. You're totally missing the point. Besides, Italy is characterized by significant presence of organized crime (Sicilian Mafia, 'Ndrangheta, Camorra, Santa Corona Unita) which gather thousands of people. It lacks a stable government and changes it frequently. Ernio48 (talk) 21:40, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Russia at present

There are always some people who think that this or that country is or is not a great power. Here, Greg Satell states that "Russia is no longer a great power": http://www.forbes.com/sites/gregsatell/2014/03/01/5-things-you-should-know-about-putins-incursion-into-crimea/ - Cecil Huber (talk) 21:33, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Which considering current events is clearly nonsense. Russia is certainly a great power. Even in its weaker 1990s period it was one. Argovian (talk) 22:48, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Italy in terms of global (long distance) power projection

Italy has 2 aircraft carriers, 3 LHDs, aerial refueling tanker aircraft, etc. Italy is a part of both the F-35 JSF consortium and the Eurofighter consortium.

Italian Navy

• 
  Italian aircraft carrier Cavour (550)
• 
  Italian aircraft carrier Giuseppe Garibaldi (551)
• 
  San Giorgio class LHD/LPD (3 in service)
• 
  Orizzonte class destroyer

Italian Air Force

• 
  Boeing KC-767 tanker aircraft (4 in service)
• 
  F-35A and F-35B
• 
  Eurofighter Typhoon
• 
  Panavia Tornado

81.214.204.134 (talk) 20:35, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

Italy produces the world's most prestigious and exotic cars (which require the highest technology) such as Ferrari, Maserati, Lamborghini, Pagani, Alfa Romeo, Lancia, etc. FIAT has purchased the Chrysler Group, including Jeep. Italy also produces high technology trains, ships, aircraft and satellites. Italy's fashion designers such as Armani, Versace, Gucci, Prada, Valentino, Trussardi, Cavalli, Paciotti, Bulgari, Dolce & Gabbana, MaxMara, etc. are the world's top brands.

While countries like China and India sell "large amounts of cheap products", countries like Italy sell lesser amounts of "the most expensive and highest quality products" and make more money (similar to Germany.) China and India still have a long way to go for becoming "great powers" because the vast majority of their populations are poor. Their democracies and state systems as a whole (including education, healthcare, social security, rights and freedoms, rule of law, etc.) aren't developed enough to qualify them as "great powers". Italy is a fully developed country in any detail you can think of; has always been, will always be. 81.214.43.179 (talk) 12:07, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

The degree of luxury in what you make has nothing to do with wether you are to be considered a great power or not. Italy may have advanced military equipment, but has not been known to exercise any strong views on the global arena since the 1940s. It's not enough to have the ability to be a great power, you have to want to be a great power too. As far as I am aware, Italy has no intention to be a great power. Cecil Huber (talk) 01:09, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Italy is clearly not a great power. Indeed, its former great power status (pre-WWII) is dubious. Argovian (talk) 09:20, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Actually, in 1987, Italy's GDP surpassed that of the United Kingdom and became the 5th largest in the world; and in 1991 Italy's GDP surpassed that of France and became the 4th largest in the world, before slowing down and being overtaken again by France and the United Kingdom. 81.214.47.130 (talk) 14:23, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Leftist parties have been very strong in Italy following the pain and tragedies caused by World War II. Ever since, all sorts of megalomania, imperialism and jingoism have been rejected by the vast majority of the Italian people. It's not that Italy (a G-7, G-8, G-20, OECD, EU and NATO member) can't intervene in the political, economic or military affairs of other countries in the world; the Italians prefer not to do it because it reminds them of the arrogant and ugly policies of the Mussolini years. Similarly, after the Chernobyl disaster, a referendum took place in Italy and the overwhelming majority of the population voted for the closure of all nuclear reactors in the country, at the cost of more than €50 billion. Italians of today are peace-loving, friendly people, with a strong support for left-wing and green political parties (the Mussolini years never befitted their character.) This doesn't mean they are weak: Italy has more "power projection" tools than Germany (e.g. 5 aircraft carriers (2 carriers and 3 LHD/LPDs) currently in service.) Their military inventory is very similar to that of the United Kingdom, especially in terms of Navy and Air Force platforms and projects. However, Italy prefers to use its strength for "humanitarian aid purposes" nowadays, similar to Japan. 81.214.45.136 (talk) 17:37, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

You're seriously saying that the Italian navy and air force is comparable to the Royal Navy or RAF? Yes, the Italian inventory includes many vessels and aircraft which also feature in the UK's (such as the Eurofighter and the F35) but not in the same numbers. And Italy does not have some of the serious power projection tools, including nuclear weapons of course. Got any SSNs or SSBNs for a start? And to suggest that the Italian navy has 5 aircraft carriers is laughable - the 3 LHD/LPDs are tiny - and the other two carriers are not exactly comparable to the Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carrier. The Royal Navy is a blue-water navy whilst Italy has a (decent) green-water navy. In the end, this all comes about because Italy's defence budget is only just over half the UK's - see list of countries by military expenditures.

Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carrier will "maybe" enter service in the "2020s". I'm talking about the "current" aircraft carrier inventory. The current ships of the U.K. are very old, many of them are dating from the Falklands War. 78.181.132.85 (talk) 12:06, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Italy has major issues around its economy and perhaps more severely its demographics. Any European country - whatever its size - can be a EU, OECD or NATO member. Argovian (talk) 09:12, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

The U.K.'s industry is actually the one that's dying (e.g. Rover, MG and BMC are history; Land Rover and Jaguar are purchased by TATA of India; Lotus is purchased by Proton of Malaysia, etc.) while the Italians have purchased the Chrysler Group of the United States. 78.181.132.85 (talk) 12:13, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Post-WWII Germany and Japan have also refrained themselves from meddling too much into the affairs of other countries, due to their bad reputation and lessons taken from the Axis era (the same is valid for Italy.) Interestingly, these countries have become more humanistic and less arrogant than the permanent members of the U.N. Security Council, which still pursue imperialistic goals and bossy attitudes. This doesn't mean Germany, Japan and Italy are less powerful today. They don't possess nuclear weapons, but "no country" will ever use them (Hiroshima and Nagasaki were mistakes, there will probably never be another nuclear attack.) So the "conventional weapons" are the ones that matter in the "real world". The aircraft carriers and LHDs of Italy (especially Cavour) are more modern than the ones currently used by the United Kingdom. Italy's military equipment is very similar to those of the U.K. and France. But it's the "soft power" that matters the most nowadays: The power through "popular culture", such as "brands", "products", "music", "cinema", etc... Italy has more famous brand names (Ferrari, Maserati, Lamborghini, Alfa Romeo, Lancia, Fiat, Gucci, Armani, Versace, Prada, Valentino, Dolce & Gabbana, MaxMara, Bulgari, Paciotti, Trussardi, Cavalli, etc...) than the United Kingdom. The U.K.'s industry is actually dying (e.g. Rover, MG and BMC are history; Land Rover and Jaguar are purchased by TATA of India; Lotus is purchased by Proton of Malaysia; etc...) while the Italians have recently purchased the Chrysler Group of the United States. 78.181.132.85 (talk) 11:50, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

WP:NOTAFORUM, I am not getting why you are discussing about the cars or military strength of Italy. OccultZone (Talk) 14:30, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Italy is still a major industrial power, with significant political, economic and military "power projection" capabilities. Many people are ignoring the fact that in 1987, Italy's GDP surpassed that of the United Kingdom and became the 5th largest in the world; and in 1991 Italy's GDP surpassed that of France and became the 4th largest in the world, before slowing down and being overtaken again by France and the United Kingdom. Since the 1990s, however, British brands started to go bust, while Italian brands are still thriving. 78.181.145.206 (talk) 14:37, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Okay, I'm not going to bother any further debating with this anon. IP (who seems to think car brands/companies are the principal matter) except to say 1) soft power ranking - you might notice the positions of Italy and the UK - which was even #1 in 2012, and 2) Royal Navy vessels - how many date from 1982? None of the submarines, frigates and destroyers. And from the carriers/amphibious vessels only Illustrious, which is being decommissioned this year. So you really don't know what you're rambling on about. Argovian (talk) 19:56, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

India

is India referred to as a great power? and should it be included in the section "Aftermath of the Cold War" thought it already is icluding in the next section below "Emerging powers" 108.60.134.235 (talk) 19:33, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Discussion

it is more appropriate that is should olny be mentioned in the section "emerging powers" because even if one or a few sources mentioned india as a great power most other sources do not and instead mean that india is a RISING power or WANTING great power but not a great power 108.60.134.235 (talk) 19:38, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Comment: India is increasingly gaining recognition as being a great power, and the article lists two reliable academic publications which conclude that India is a great power. I noticed on the 26th of June that an IP tried to remove mention of India as a great power from the article. Are you perchance the same person? It would be wrong to remove India from the article because there are very reliable sources supporting it. Antiochus the Great (talk) 20:39, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Keep--the statement: "many sources recognize India as a great power" is correct. Markewilliams (talk) 00:24, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

India a great power?the inclusion of that statment and the wording makes in seem that india is a great power, how can india be a great power? what about countries like brazil and italy not included as great powers althought they a larger GDP (nominal) 108.60.134.238 (talk) 20:31, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

India is a great power? Hence, lacking in *global* influence? India *has* increased naval presence, but not significantly. Hence, India, lacking significant other considerations, is *not* a Great Power. Potentially so, but not currently. *Regional* power, yes, not *global*, which *is* what a *great power* is.76.98.54.238 (talk) 06:22, 3 July 2014 (UTC)