Talk:Hurricane Sandy

Meteorology and Climatology

Long term Meteorological data (F. J. Monkhouse says meteorological data registered for more than thirty years) are taken as scientific basis to define Climatology as the long term average meteorological information such as atmospheric temperature, pressure, winds, atmospheric water vapor, clouds, rain and so forth. Hurricanes (i. e., Sandy) are meteorological and not climatic data, and, therefore, can't be taken the other way around. --Fev (talk) 04:17, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

Nowhere in the article is Sandy's data labelled climatic data. I'm not entirely sure what your point is here. Inks.LWC (talk) 05:07, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

An explanation

The article talks about global warming (a climatic concept) and climate change, obviously, another climatic concept:

• 1.-The answer to the oft-asked question of whether an event is caused by climate change is that it is the wrong question. All weather events are affected by climate change because the environment in which they occur is warmer and moister than it used to be".
• 2.- Meteorologist Martin Hoerling attributes Sandy to little more than the coincidental alignment of a tropical storm with an extratropical storm. Trenberth does agree that the storm was caused by "natural variability" but adds that it was "enhanced by global warming".
• 3.- The sea surface temperatures along the Atlantic coast have been running at over 3°C above normal for a region extending 800 km off shore all the way from Florida to Canada. Global warming contributes 0.6°C to this.
• 4.- Global climate change has contributed to the higher sea surface and ocean temperatures, and a warmer and moister atmosphere, and its effects are in the range of 5 to 10%.
• 5.- Natural variability and weather has provided the perhaps optimal conditions of a hurricane running into extra-tropical conditions to make for a huge intense storm, enhanced by global warming influences
• 6.- As the temperature of the atmosphere increases, the capacity to hold water increases, leading to stronger storms and higher rainfall amounts

Let's analyze the six previous points:

1.- If we define climate as a measure of the average pattern of variation in temperature, humidity, atmospheric pressure, wind, precipitation, atmospheric particle count and other meteorological variables in a given region over l ong periods of time, it is wrong to say that All weather events are affected by climate change. It is just the opposite: a hurricane like Sandy affects, even in a slight or insignificant way, the local or regional climate but not the other way around: if we include data from Sandy, the average climate data from sites affected by Sandy will remain the same.

2.- Point 2 says: attributes Sandy to little more than.... Truth is more complex, being an important reason explanation in advisory number 3 of Sandy, not included in the article (maybe some biased point of view of WP users) which helps to understand the reasons of Sandy's huge size (see the spanish version of Sandy).

3.- Surface ocean temperatures may vary 3º C below or above the normal in a short period of time but these variations does not affect that normal value, as we had seen before. Attributing 0,6ºC of from those 3º to global warming is something wrong and not scientific, since climate refers to the atmospheric or meteorological data over a long period of time: atmospheric temperature is rapidly affected by ocean waters temperature, but not the other way around: atmospheric air is diatermanous and water is not.

4.- The article says: Global climate change has contributed to the higher sea surface and ocean temperatures, and a warmer and moister atmosphere, and its effects are in the range of 5 to 10%. The truth is that warming of ocean waters rise the average sea level because of increasing volume and, therefore, decrease in water density. However, warm waters increases evaporation, which, in turn, decreases water level and its temperature and therefore, increases again water level. Saying that 5% to 10% (of Sandy, I suppose) of effects are caused by global warming is an elusive idea, extremely difficult to prove.

5.- To say that Sandy's was an intense storm because of global warming influences turns again consequences in causes.

6.- This point is only half of the problem: As the temperature of the atmosphere increases, the capacity to hold water increases, leading to stronger storms and higher rainfall amounts. But stronger storms and large rainfall amounts decreases that capacity. --Fev 01:50, 6 February 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fev (talk • contribs)

Restructure article?

Hello All,

As a user trying to read about Hurricane Sandy as a meteorological phenomenon I find this article extremely cumbersome.

Issues I have with this article:

The introductory paragraph has details (see text in small font) about Sandy damages. IMO these should not be in an introductory paragraph.

In Jamaica, winds left 70% of residents without electricity, blew roofs off buildings, killed one, and caused about $100 million (2012 USD) in damage. Sandy's outer bands brought flooding to Haiti, killing at least 54, causing food shortages, and leaving about 200,000 homeless; the hurricane also caused two deaths in the Dominican Republic. In Puerto Rico, one man was swept away by a swollen river. In Cuba, there was extensive coastal flooding and wind damage inland, destroying some 15,000 homes, killing 11, and causing $2 billion (2012 USD) in damage. Sandy caused two deaths and damage estimated at $700 million (2012 USD) in The Bahamas. In Canada, two were killed in Ontario and an estimated $100 million (2012 CAD) in damage was caused throughout Ontario and Quebec.[9]

There is a large section 'Preparations' which is then sub-divided into regions, then these are in turn sub-divided by country or U.S. state.

Similarly, there is a section 'Impact' which does the same thing-- region, sub-divided by country or state.

In 'Aftermath' there are only discussions of 'Relief efforts', 'Political impact', 'Media coverage', etc.

Nowhere (as far as I can find) in the article is a discussion of the downgrading of Sandy into a tropical depression (or whatever came of it), the path of the storm after it was downgraded from a hurricane, etc.

I am only a moderate-level editor: I generally only fix typos I see here & there across Wiki; restructuring &/or re-writing large sections of this article would be beyond my level of expertise. So I will leave this as a suggestion-- perhaps edit down the Preparations & Impact sections to countries & regions, rather than countries & states. Some of the contents under particular states have only one sentence. Perhaps the fine details should be edited out or put into a sub-article-- some exist already such as 'Effects of Hurricane Sandy in Maryland and Washington, D.C.'

Perhaps add a section 'Chronology' which discusses the meteorological evolution of the storm. The extant section 'Meteorological history' does a fine job of discussing the genesis of the storm. But there should be a similar paragraph on the dissolution of the storm. Or add a 2nd paragraph to 'Meteorological history' which discusses the storm's dissolution & path.

Thanks. SaturnCat (talk) 17:29, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Hey there! First, why don't you feel that we should cover the impacts outside of the US in the lede? Secondly, the "Meteorological history" section covers after the hurricane became extratropical, made landfall, and weakening over Pennsylvania. There is an article on the meteorological history, so there shouldn't be too much focus on that in the main article. I do agree there is a bit too much info on preparations, and those should be relegated to the sub-articles. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:38, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi. I didn't say we shouldn't cover aspects of the hurricane outside of the U.S. The details, however, that are included in the paragraph from the article that I put in a small font (see above), are way too detailed IMO to be included in an introductory paragraph.

You said <<Secondly, the "Meteorological history" section covers after the hurricane became extratropical, made landfall, and weakening over Pennsylvania.>> Yes, but it's only one sentence: The remnants weakened over western Pennsylvania, degenerating into a remnant trough on October 31.[31] I think the wording should be something like: At XXXX UTC, when positioned over [whereever in NJ, MD, or PA it was], Hurricane Sandy was downgraded into a tropical storm by the National Weather Service. The tropical storm proceeded through [western PA, or whichever counties of PA], until it further dissipated and was designated as a tropical depression by the National Weather Service at XXXX UTC. (Does the NWS have such a thing as the official beginning & end of an event such as a hurricane?)

I would think that the duration of a major event: where & when it officially became a hurricane and where & when it officially was downgraded from a hurricane would be important facts to note in the main article. IMO the article should be more scientific: discuss the hurricane more as a meteorological phenomena; again, IMO, there is too much emphasis on the hurricane as a natural disaster.

Cheers. SaturnCat (talk) 18:56, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Well, a hurricane is natural disaster, and this hurricane is particularly well-known for, in part, the amount of destruction that it caused in the USA. As for the "downgrading" timeline of this storm, that's actually a controversial topic (as to whether or not the Tropical Prediction Center should have just kept issuing statements and/or warnings on the storm as it became more extra-tropical) which, I think, resulted in some policy changes within the National Weather Service. Guy1890 (talk) 22:00, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Plus the extra-tropical stuff is in the meteorological history article about Sandy (as is a lot more). Inks.LWC (talk) 00:34, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Well, a category 3 hurricane or higher is a major hurricane

That's it ·71.187.134.129 (talk) 01:55, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

What's your point? Inks.LWC (talk) 02:23, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

sandy

hurrican sandy was later down graded to a catagory 1 . — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tributetwister (talk • contribs) 02:00, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Nope. But nice try. United States Man (talk) 03:22, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

He's probably a sockpuppet of User:Awesomenessluigi. Just ignore him. LightandDark2000 (talk) 21:47, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

It is OK to have an article about Hurricane Sandy. However, it needs to be made clear that Hurricane Sandy became a category 1 hurricane that would have simply blown out to sea if it had not developed into an Extratropical Cyclone. It was the merger with the large cold front caused by the southern wave of the Polar Jet Stream that increased the strength of the storm. There was also the wave in the Northern Atlantic interacting with the North Atlantic Oscillation that diverted the storm onto land. Please consult some better meteorological sources. Do not feed the people that want to blame "Hurricane Sandy" on "Climate Change". Tyrerj (talk) 23:19, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 April 2014

Please add in a paragraph about the Governor's Office of Storm Recovery (GOSR) to the relief efforts section. Providing information about GOSR is helpful in understanding the political background of Sandy response in New York State.

Please add the following description of GOSR (source: http://stormrecovery.ny.gov/overview): 

In June 2013– following the occurrence of Hurricane Irene, Tropical Storm Lee and most recently Superstorm Sandy– Governor Andrew Cuomo set out to centralize recovery and rebuilding efforts in impacted areas of New York State. Establishing the Office of Storm Recovery, the Governor aimed to address communities’ most urgent needs, while also encouraging the identification of innovative and enduring solutions to strengthen the State’s infrastructure and critical systems. Operating under the umbrella of New York Rising, the Governor’s Office of Storm Recovery (GOSR) utilizes approximately $3.8 billion in flexible funding made available by the U.S. Department of Housing & Urban Development’s (HUD) Community Development Block Grant Disaster Recovery (CDBG-DR) program to concentrate aid to four main areas. Paired with additional federal funding that has been awarded to other State agencies, the CDBG-DR program is enabling homeowners, small businesses and entire communities to build back even better than before. And in a State already known for its great resiliency and can-do spirit, the efforts are paving the way for a tremendous comeback– one that will reinvigorate New York and better prepare it for future extreme weather events that come its way.

Additionally, please add the following GOSR milestones (source: http://www.stormrecovery.ny.gov/sites/default/files/uploads/03-11-14_gosr_ny_rising_housing_program_application_deadline_release_final.pdf) The NY Rising Housing Recovery Program has distributed more than $280 million in payments to 6,388 homeowners for damages that resulted from Superstorm Sandy, Hurricane Irene, or Tropical Storm Lee. Every eligible homeowner who applied by January 20 has been issued a check for home reconstruction. Over 4,650 Nassau residents have been issued rebuilding payments totaling over $201 million and over 1,350 Suffolk residents have been issued over $65 million in rebuilding payments. Additionally through its buyout and acquisition program, the State has made offers totaling over $293 million to purchase the homes of 709 homeowners.

Thank you! 184.152.29.236 (talk) 13:37, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Not done: You would need to capture the information from those pages which you believe improves this article and present it in your own words. Including the exact text from that website can be either a copyright or plagarism problem and it may also be too much detail about GOSR for this article about Hurricane Sandy. If you have reasons for adding this material other than improving this article, please read our guideline on how to edit with a conflict of interest. Thanks, Celestra (talk) 04:13, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

These Death Tolls Are Blatant BS

Millions had to have died. The limited electricity, food, water, and gasoline... Plus, the deaths from the storm itself directly, and deaths by other things it caused (besides supply shortages), such as electrified water. I'm sorry, but there's no way that it wasn't multi-millions of deaths. And, the deaths were clearly hushed up in reporting, probably because the obvious amount of people it had to have killed. If you want to argue with this, prove that people who depended upon electricity, medicine, and healthcare professionals survived. And, prove that everyone survived through the starvation, and dehydration. There is no possible way that less than a million people died from Hurricane Sandy.--174.19.234.173 (talk) 18:37, 16 August 2014 (UTC)