Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)

The miscellaneous section of the village pump is used to post messages that do not fit into any other category. Please post on the policy, technical, or proposals pages, or – for assistance – at the help desk, rather than here, if at all appropriate. For general knowledge questions, please use the reference desk.

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RfC

Hello, there's an RfC here that might be of interest to the wider community so I'm posting it here. The question is:

Should the French name Médecins Sans Frontières be used or should the English translation Doctors without Borders be used in the article?. The article is Ebola virus epidemic in West Africa.

I'm posting here per the RfC publicizing section which allows it. Thanks. SW3 5DL (talk) 16:57, 12 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I think that the French title should be used throughout seeing as most of the world uses the french version. Perhaps one should include the english translation in brackets after the first use of it, ie Médecins Sans Frontières (Doctors without Borders). Schuy B. (talk) 21:30, 20 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Schuy B.: The post by SW3 5DL above is a notification, it is not the discussion itself. Per WP:MULTI, please discuss on the actual RfC, which is at Talk:Ebola virus epidemic in West Africa#RfC. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:48, 20 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Redrose64: Sorry about that; thank you for the clarification. Schuy B. (talk) 00:04, 21 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Translation

The answer to my question probably exists 'somewhere' but I have limited time to wade through various topics.

I would like to translate some pages from Spanish into English, or at least to expand certain English pages by adding information from the Spanish page. In all cases I have in mind, these are pages about Spanish cities or communities where there is frequently miminal information in English but mountains of history, geography, topography, gastronomy, famous people, and town sporting clubs, etc., on the page in Spanish.

Question 1: how do I attribute the information from the Spanish page (which probably has many editors) to either the correct author, or to just the wiki page I am working from?

Question 2: is there anyone overseeing translations? I am not bilingual but am at the Master's level in Spanish language, linguistics, and phonetics. This, however, does not suggest my translations are perfect.

Question 3: is there anyone within the Spanish wiki with whom I should be talking?

Any help or suggestions appreciated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amaling (talk • contribs) 05:09, 16 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

'Somewhere' appears to be Wikipedia:Translation#How to translate.

There are multiple options for crediting the original. A link to the original in your first edit summary is typical (just like you'd do if you WP:SPLIT an article on the English Wikipedia). There's a template to mark translated pages. You can even request that the entire (Spanish) page's history be imported for full, detailed credit, although people don't usually do that (especially if an article already exists here). See Wikipedia:Translation for a list of options.
Not really. You could see if Wikipedia:WikiProject Translation is active. Your translations don't need to be "perfect". It's not a test of translation skill. You just need to produce a good encyclopedia article.
Not really, although if you told them which article you might do next, then you might discover a partner who would check it over for you in advance.

Good luck, and thank you for doing this! WhatamIdoing (talk) 05:47, 16 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Amaling: See also Wikipedia:Local Embassy#español (es), es:Wikipedia:Embajadas, and Wikipedia:WikiProject Spain. And don't forget to use {{lang}} for any Spanish text (titles, quotes, etc.) which is not translated. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 23:09, 17 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

———
Thanks for the information. I'll look at your links, find a page to work on and see what happens. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amaling (talk • contribs) 14:32, 21 October 2014‎
It appears the WikiProject Spain page is where I should start. Thanks again.Amaling (talk) 00:02, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

A Nobel Prize?

Just a thought for possible future action, but Nobel Prizes can be awarded to organizations. Wikipedia is an organization (or, at least, the Wikimedia Foundation is formally one). Engaging in the free distribution of knowledge provides an invaluable resource in favor of world peace. I would also dare say that Wikipedia is a great producer of literature (the Prize is not limited to fiction; Winston Churchill won for his historical and biographical writings); and acts as an important positive force in the fields of physics, chemistry, medicine, and economics by giving the average person access to information about these fields. bd2412 T 16:37, 17 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"possible future action" by who? As far as I'm aware, the Nobel committee does not accept self-nomination, and it would be grossly improper to canvass for nomination. As for Wikipedia being "a great producer of literature" I can only suggest that opinions are likely to differ on this (it will also depend on whether one looks only at the best of Wikipedia, [1] or on more typical content [2]). Anyway, while I suppose that given the propensity of the Nobel committee to hand out peace prizes apparently at random, or possibly as some sort of post-modernist satire, one can't entirely rule out the possibility that Wikipedia might one day receive one, I don't think we should be making plans right now as to what we will do with the prize money... AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:04, 17 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Possible future action by anyone who is eligible to take action, which includes "University professors of history, social sciences, philosophy, law, and theology...". I'm sure we have a few of those among our ranks. Although people generally don't canvass for Nobel Prizes for themselves, they are often canvassed for by others (the Peace Prize, after all, has a nomination process; anyone doing the nominating would be "canvassing" for that nominee). The professors who nominate organizations for such prizes are likely to have some affiliation with the organization, even if is just as a cooperative volunteer. bd2412 T 20:20, 17 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

what we will do with the prize money I was thinking of spending my share on a holiday... Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 23:02, 17 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

A bucket of ice cream for me. And do we each get to keep the medal for a week? -- Derek Ross | Talk 00:01, 21 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If we limit it to editors who are highly active, and if we can assume zero transportation time, then we could probably each keep it for an hour a year. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:22, 21 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I propose that the top twelve editors each get to keep it for one month of the year. bd2412 T 01:48, 21 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

How do we get it from person to person each month without it melting on the trip from (say) London to Sydney? --Redrose64 (talk) 06:44, 21 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I think BD meant the medal, not the bucket of ice cream. -- llywrch (talk) 23:09, 21 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'll give you my ice-cream when you pry it from my cold, sticky hands -- Derek Ross | Talk 06:26, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe the Nobel Prize is a long shot (for this coming year). How about a Pulitzer Prize for Public Service? Surely we can find some set of noble articles to merit consideration for that honor? It's not as though Wikipedia is bereft of awards. bd2412 T 19:25, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Why go for these puny awards, why not go directly for the Oscar, Lifetime Achievment Award for best Drama any year. Just submit any talk page to the Academy. w.carter-Talk 20:27, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Drawing of Kim Jong-un

We need a lead image. So, why not find an artist here at WMF who can draw a picture of him based on several photos? If it clearly resembles him, and the community thinks so, then it could become the lead image here and at other language Wikipedias. Thoughts? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 02:30, 21 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Suggest JNW Hafspajen (talk) 00:35, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

User-contributed drawings have been removed from articles as visual WP:OR, rightly I think. Johnbod (talk) 01:12, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Johnbod. You may have a point there. But Wikipedias can draw a gear and that's fine. What about a species of plant leaf? Probably acceptable. So, what about a shrew? Still okay, maybe. So, why not a person if it looks just like him and is really professional? My point is, shouldn't it be case-by-case? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:21, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it's not without precedent; see Hassan Nasrallah. Tarc (talk) 01:28, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Tarc. And that image is accepted at 15 Wikipedias. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:43, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Previously drawn images of Kim Jong-un have been removed due to being derivative works of press photos, making them non-free, and as Jong-un is still alive, unacceptable per NFC. --MASEM (t) 14:42, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Anna Frodesiak, while browsing about this caught my attention. I mentioned it at lunch to my boss, who is an artist, joking that maybe she could draw one. Sure enough, she took a pencil and drew a sketch, scanned and tweaked it! :) She has an account at the Commons so I asked her to upload it. I don't know if it's good enough for the Wiki, but it was a fun lunch and the pic is yours if you want it: File:Kim Jong-un sketch.jpg Best, w.carter-Talk 10:43, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, W.carter. Many, many thanks. :) That is a very nice drawing she did. I like it. For the article, I think the community may only approve of a piece that conveys more than a sketch can. I am not sure, though. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 14:37, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

No problem, it was all done just for fun. In fact her words were: "Hope this doesn't make me a new Lars Vilks now!" ;) w.carter-Talk 14:50, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

RFC - Mainstream scientific assessment of climate change

Opinions of neutral uninvolved eds eagerly sought!
We have a

main article, Scientific opinion on climate change
sub article, List of scientists opposing the mainstream assessment of global warming

Discussion of the latter article is often chaotic, as many editors talk about diverse issues in the same breath. However, the issue I'm trying to present is laser-focused on the leads of the two articles.
The lead of the main article tries to summarize the mainstream scientific perspective. To comply with WP:FRINGE's requirement to establish the context for fringe statements, the lead of the latter article does that too. However, for a long time they have been out-of-synch, using overlapping but different text and sources. A poll question has been posted asking

Given that the mainstream assessment is summarized on the basis of the RSs with greatest WP:WEIGHT at the main article "Scientific opinion on climate change", would a neutral uninvolved editor reasonably expect the same sources to be used to present the same summary [at the sub-article "List of scientists opposing..."] unless there was a really good RS-based reason to do something different?

Please offer your thoughts in the thread located at the subarticle via this link. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 13:12, 21 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Linking to audio pronunciation of names

I ask for the opinion of experienced and authoritative members. When a name contained in an article has no information about correct pronunciation, or when there is just the IPA transcription (not transparent to all users), it would seem an improvement to provide audio pronunciation by means of an audio file with the correct reading of the name (performed by native speaker under supervision of someone scholarly trained in phonetics or the like). Best is obviously to upload that file to Commons. But, in case this is impossible because the file belongs to some other institution, what is the best way to link to the URL where the file can be listened to? --- EdoLV (talk) 16:42, 21 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps use the {{external media}} template? The alternative would be to link to it in a footnote or reference, but that would easily be missed. Qwfp (talk) 20:36, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You can also add an WP:explanatory footnote that links to it. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:06, 24 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

RfC - Suitability for a Watchlist notice? (29 Oct - 2 Nov)

Hi! I wonder if I could get views on the suitability of a potential Watchlist notice to run between Friday 29 October and Sunday 2 November ?

It would be to support a campaign to use an an online index that's been created on Commons to systematically go through the one million public-domain images the British Library has uploaded to Flickr and add the Flickr tag 'map' to every image that represents a map or a ground-plan. This means we will then be able to run them through the British Library's crowd-sourced georeferencer project, and upload the identified and geolocated maps to Wikimedia Commons. (more information).

The project is going to kick off with a day-long Digital maps Halloween tagathon event at the British Library on Friday 29 October -- for which there is already a Watchlist geonotice running, currently being seen by users in the southern half of the UK as a line of text above their watchlist. (So if anyone is going to be free in London that day, please do sign up and come along).

But it's going to take more than that opening tagathon to get the job done. It would be fantastic if we could really make inroads into it over that weekend, because (i) the BL Labs group is holding its annual review symposium on Monday 3 November, so it would be great if we could show the attendees a real concrete win from the BL having worked with Wikimedia; and (ii) the critical thing for making the images uploadable to Commons is getting them georeferenced, but the BL will only start their next round of georeferencing once the maps have all been identified. So the sooner after the 31st that we can get them all found, the better.

It would therefore be great to be able to run something like the following watchlist notice, across the board, over the weekend from 29 October to 2 November:

This weekend, give us an hour (or half an hour) to find the remaining maps in the #BL1million. See project latest status.

Most of the index is divided into blocks of about 15 books, each one linked to a page of images on Flickr for people to scan, tag the maps, and then remove an UntaggedMaps template from the wikipage. So even in half an hour, one can do a good bitesized bit.

The reach of the collection can be judged from this map locating 3000 maps on the globe that have already been identified and georeferenced. Each red dot can be clicked on to reveal a map, which can also be laid over a modern map for comparison, like this. It also gives an idea of the global distribution of non-map images in the collection, which is similar (accessible through the same index pages). As yet unidentified, it's been estimated that there may be a further 10,000 maps in the collection, still to be found.

If enough people are ready to give the project a half hour, it should be possible to blitz through the collection, and find all those maps in really not very much time at all. But it means getting the word out. According to the keepers of the keys of the watchlist notices (and quite right too), an across-the-board watchlist for something like this should only be run if the community has said it's okay. So here I am asking: in your view, would a notice like the above be acceptable for the weekend of Friday 29 October to Sunday 2 November?

Thank you for your thoughts. Jheald (talk) 02:30, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Best promo videos

I'm in need of a couple of short videos, promoting Wikipedia and its sister projects, to show at an event. It's surprisingly hard to find them!

We have lots of videos in Commons:Category:Wikimedia project videos, but many, while no doubt useful for their educational content, are not the kind of things to show to a lay audience - either the quality is not high enough, or the content is too specific.

I'm looking for things with impact, like File:Open Letter for Free Access to Wikipedia - three months later, MTN responds.webm

Suggestions, please! Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:39, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like you got some useful responses on the Wikimedia-l mailing list[3]. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:57, 24 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

New tax on Internet traffic in Hungary

The Hungarian government proposed to impose a new tax on Internet data transfers from 1. January 2015. The draft tax code contains a provision for Internet users to pay a tax of 150 forints (50 Euro cents) per gigabyte of data traffic.

The internet tax put a great restraint on Internet access. The Hungarians would now access the services they have used much more expensively, or in an extreme case, not at all. Up to present only dictators has controlled the Internet either financially or with raw power.

This is a great restraint for the Wikipedia users too. First of all the contributors access will be notably expensive. Please support the Hungarian wikipedians and internet users!

More: in Reuters

--Texaner (talk) 15:37, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The article suggests that the residential tax will probably be capped at approximately US $3 per month. How does that compare to a typical person's telephone or Internet bill in Hungary? In the US, I think that might amount to a 5% increase in internet costs. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:15, 24 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

RfC on the Vietnam war

RfC: Should the lead for the article Vietnam War state "War crimes were committed by both sides"? Please add your views :)OnBeyondZebrax (talk) 00:01, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The RfC is at Talk:Vietnam War#RfC: Should the lead state "War crimes were committed by both sides"?. OnBeyondZebrax, please make sure that you include a direct link to the RfC itself, otherwise people may comment in the wrong place. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:46, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

NOTICE: Substantially identical debate by the same individuals spilled out across Talk:Vietnam War, Talk:World_War_I, Talk:Korean_War, Talk:First_Indochina_War and possibly elsewhere. I directed all the other discussions back to the RfC at Talk:Vietnam War. Please comment on the general issue of adding war crimes to the ledes, as well as any concern of specific treatment of any specific war. Alsee (talk) 18:44, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

RfC: Should the lead's coverage of French history be broadened?

RfC: Should the lead's coverage of French history in the France article be broadened? Please add your views on the France talk page.OnBeyondZebrax (talk) 00:05, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The RfC is at Talk:France#RfC: Should the lead's coverage of French history be broadened?. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:52, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

RfC opened on meta on how to credit the contributors when translating or copying an article to another Wikipedia

Since enwiki is the biggest source for translations to other wikis, you might be interested in this RfC I have opened on meta: m:Requests for comment/Wikipedians and the CC-BY-SA license. Elfix (talk) 08:26, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Category loops

Hi, I generated this list of category loops, the first 200 of 2571 category loops. I was trying to solve the category loops in Portuguese Wikipedia, the list there is smaller (309 loops) but still big and difficult to solve. I searched by some guide about category loops but the unique page I found is Wikipedia:Computer help desk/Category graph study, that says the category loop is a problem but difficult to solve. So I bring the question for enwiki to more people opine about what is the best way to deal with these loops, is it better try to solve all loops or there is no problem to have loops in categories? (sorry bad English) Danilo.mac (talk) 21:03, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It's not a problem per se provided that each category is a justifiable member of its parents. The only cat loops that are (pretty much) always undesirable are those where the cat is a member of itself, and we have a weekly report for that. There are in fact two cats that are intentionally members of themselves: Category:Hidden categories and Category:Noindexed pages, because of the way that those cats are placed on pages (the __HIDDENCAT__ and __NOINDEX__ behaviour switches). --Redrose64 (talk) 22:05, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Catloops are a bad thing, says me. I have occasionally been stuck and confused in them, and it must be far worse for newbies. When we find them we ought to break the loop, often with a See also. Jim.henderson (talk) 22:14, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting issue. There are benefits to a more rigorous category system, mainly when someone tries to compile "all subpages" descended from a category. But that's a pretty rare usage, and it would take a staggering rebuild of the entire category system and an ugly mess trying to permanently constrain the creation of new categories. On the other hand the benefits of the current free-form category system are probably at least as significant. People can add any category viewed as useful for any reason, and readers can follow any category links that catch their interest. Someone who found themselves following a category loop presumably found each step in that loop to be worth following. I don't think it's worth trying to do anything about loops unless there is some compelling problem I'm missing. Alsee (talk) 11:30, 25 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Summer love (novel)

I want to draw attention of an administrator to close the discussion for afd of Summer love (novel) .The nominator have also agreed that the article must not be deleted. AmRit GhiMire 'Ranjit' (talk) 10:26, 24 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Amrit Ghimire Ranjit: This isn't the administrators' noticeboard... but a better place would be Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Requests for closure. --Redrose64 (talk) 13:04, 24 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]