Talk:Orca

Disputed content

Hi all, I made some changes but they were reverted with a note to discuss and I am happy to do so. Here are my concerns:

• The "cooperation with humans" section is not supported by the citations. In the main article used to support the citation I was unable to find any content about cooperative hunting nor did it mention old Tom. Please correct me if I am wrong.
• From Taxonomy and evolution: "Although the term "orca" is increasingly used, English-speaking scientists most often use the traditional name "killer whale". "

needs a citation. If this is based on personal observation and not citation, it is WP:SYNTH.

• From Taxonomy and evolution: "Indeed, the genus name Orcinus means "of the kingdom of the dead", or "belonging to Orcus".Ancient Romans originally used orca (pl. orcae) for these animals, possibly borrowing Greek ὄρυξ (óryx), which referred (among other things) to a whale species."

This is a very common misconception. The etymology is not related to the god Orcus, but instead the latin word orca. See citations at https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/orca and also https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Orcinus. I can dig up more sources later if there is still dispute about this, but I'm too busy currently.

• From Taxonomy and evolution: "The term "orca" is euphemistically preferred by some to avoid the negative connotations of "killer", and because, being part of the family Delphinidae, the species is more closely related to other dolphins than to whales."

All dolphins are whales, my suggested edit for this issue was to delete everything after the word "killer".

Lets discuss. ^†Basilosauridae❯❯❯Talk 17:58, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for raising the concerns, refining the content in closely reviewed articles is a good thing, even when many have already done so.

On the first point, human and orca cooperation is reported in references elsewhere. The phenomena associated with Australian whaling generated a lot of conjecture, I will try to find a scholarly review of the literature that I read years ago. The facts currently needs qualification and closer citations (not removal, yet)

I agree, without a citation that might be SYN, perhaps the product of the perennial dispute over the common name.

The etymology of orca is said to from French orque or Latin orca (probably French to English) and those terms are, as you say, a 'kind of whale'.

The last point is similar to the second, it looks like some blather to give the impression that vernacular terms are deliberately contrived and systematic. I now regret sticking my nose in, what you did was probably an improvement. — cygnis insignis 03:54, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

They are called "ORCA" not Killer Whale. They are the largest "DOLPHIN". The name Killer Whale was a reversal of the ancient mariner term Whale Killer after they were observed attacking other whales.

The title of this page is wrong as is much of the text as observed by the original poster on this talk section.

This page should be renamed "ORCA" and search results "Killer Whale" should redirect to that title, not the other way around as it is now. 2605:A000:1407:8269:D4D9:68A5:DFBD:4EBA (talk) 12:28, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

As cygnis insignis noted, the title has been debated several times before and it turns out that even in scientific literature "killer whale" is a more common common name than "orca," regardless of the etymology of the name (of course, scientific literature also uses the scientific name). And since dolphins are toothed whales anyway, the name is not inaccurate. Rlendog (talk) 12:49, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

they are merely common names, the most common name is the one the both refer to: the sentence case beginning of the accepted description, Orcinus orca … [large monochrome predatory aquatic mammal species …] cygnis insignis 15:16, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 October 2018

killer whales can weigh up to 8 tons and the heaviset killer whale ever found was 10 tons. 204.102.4.65 (talk) 16:42, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

 Not done. No sample content or source. --Zefr (talk) 16:47, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Comparison of size of orca and great white shark.svg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 21:36, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

Any interest in moving this page to "Orca"?

There's currently a discussion underway at [1] about whether the page "List of captive orcas" should be renamed "List of captive killer whales"? The motivation for this is consistency with this page's name. But perhaps it's this page that should be renamed - to "Orca"? The name "orca" is no longer obscure; in fact, it now seems to dominate "killer whale" online. Would anyone like to propose that this page be moved to "Orca" (with a redirect from "Killer whale", of course)? Ross Finlayson (talk) 19:30, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

• Eh... agnostic on this one. "Orca" is the more common usage IIRC, but both names are pretty unmistakeable to the reader, so not much gained or lost either way. It's not like the Amphiprioninae / clownfish / anemonefish case (now regretfully stalled again), where the current title would just elicit a blank stare from most people. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 19:43, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Consensus is to use the common names given in Mammal Species of the World for titles of mammal articles (although that isn't followed 100% of the time). MSW uses Killer Whale, as does Scientific Committee of the International Whaling Commission (see here). Plantdrew (talk) 20:04, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

• The current title is pretty clearly the common name for this topic. I would also note that Encyclopedia Britannica uses the same title for their article.[2] Rreagan007 (talk) 07:22, 1 June 2019 (UTC)
• If we are following Mammal species of the world, the title of that entry is Orcinus orca, written large and bold This is what the common names refer to, a species, more or less imperfectly, and the site makes it clear the vernacular is incidental. The assumption is that another so-called common name must be selected as a substitute, which is not what MSW or any other authority intend when they provide vernacular in one language. The article is then used to elevate one common name to replace any other for consistency, that is not what this site should be doing and is against policy. The article is about a species, with an explanation that killer whales are—and are not—dolphins according to some muddy articles that attempt to elevate the name "dolphin". This a perennial discussion that is immediately resolved by doing what reliable sources do, use the name that has been most common for more than two hundred and fifty years for very good reasons. cygnis insignis 09:56, 1 June 2019 (UTC)
• WP:FAUNA states to use the common name, so killer whale. ^†Basilosauridae❯❯❯Talk 17:08, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

It says to use the most common name, which is Orcinus orca. cygnis insignis 17:16, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

”When what is the most common name in English, or the veracity of that most common name, is so disputed in reliable sources that it cannot be neutrally ascertained, prefer the common name most used (orthography aside) by international zoological nomenclature authorities over regional ones. When there is no common name or no consensus can be reached on the most common name, or if it isn't clear what taxon the common name refers to (as in the sardine example above), use the scientific name.”

A scientific name isn’t a common name. The most common name is killer whale, which isn’t “regionally disputed”. We all agree that the common name is killer whale and the scientific name is Orcinus orca. Since it is not a disputed common name, it should be used over the scientific name or over a zoological authority. This is my interpretation of the guideline. ^†Basilosauridae❯❯❯Talk 17:33, 1 June 2019 (UTC)