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January 7

Coat racks at restaurants

Why do restaurants have unguarded coat racks? Surely they must know that once you turn your back on a coat rack, your coat has been stolen in under a second? JIP | Talk 00:11, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The last place I saw a coat rack around here was my church, and they've ditched it. When I arrived here in Arizona 21 years ago, the bartender guffawed at my query as to whether they had a coat check. There is simply no such thing as coat storage in any ordinary establishment around here. I can't speak to five-star hotels and resorts, though. Elizium23 (talk) 01:24, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

How often has this happened to you? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:40, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In those European countries with which I am familiar (the UK, France, Switzerland and Austria), unguarded coat racks are not often to be found in restaurants; the practice is that you give your coat to someone to look after. However, they are very common in cafés. There is normally a disclaimer posted next to the coat rack saying that you leave items there at your own risk and management cannot be held liable for any loss. The point is that obviously you are not going to leave anything valuable like a wallet or phone in your unguarded coat, but the chances of someone stealing your coat itself are very remote. Like BB, I can't understand why JIP thinks this will happen in under a second. I've left coats on stands out of my sight many times and not once have they ever been stolen. Why would a thief bother? Most people, even thieves, already have coats, and the chances of stealing one that fits you are minimal. Frankly, I'd be more worried about someone taking my coat instead of theirs by mistake. --Viennese Waltz 07:53, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It is cultural. I live in the Bronx and stealing here is not stealing. It is normal. If it can be taken, it will be taken. My brother was in the Army and he ended up in Des Moines of all places. I visited him and he had lawn ornaments just sitting there. Nobody took them. He left his garage door open all day. Nobody took anything. It was crazy. He said that people around there just don't take stuff if it isn't theirs. So, if you live in a place like I do, a coat rack would be a stupid idea, unless you are doing the long con and you put the coat rack there just to steal coats. If you live in Iowa, it is certainly different. 135.84.167.41 (talk) 13:25, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You may well have a point. However, JIP is European, and his assertion that coats in European cafés or restaurants will be swiftly stolen is without merit. --Viennese Waltz 14:03, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's a similar situation in Finland. In Helsinki, unattended things are often stolen, but in northern Lapland, people never touch anything that isn't theirs, even if it's left outside for all day long. This has even led to wooden rowing boats rotting away moored ashore because their owners are out of town and no one else wants to touch them. JIP | Talk 18:53, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I see lots of unguarded coatracks here in Zagreb. I'll put my coat on them when they're in my line of sight and farther than me from the nearest exit, no problems (knocks on wood). However times have changed. In the 90s I had one coat nicked off the back of the chair I was sitting on. 89.172.38.145 (talk) 06:56, 10 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Make sure you sit on part of the coat to avoid that. Particularly valuable coats may be stolen and then sold. NonmalignedNations (talk) 01:57, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah we used to have a slang word for stolen coat resellers. Today most people wouldn't know what that word means. 89.172.2.98 (talk) 00:28, 12 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

January 8

Jury of the Ballon d'Or

Hi, were the votes of the jurors once sent by mail directly to France Football magazine? Once there was no Internet, I refer mainly to the seventies. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.41.100.198 (talk) 13:46, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I tried to do some research on this, but couldn't find anything. I do note that it would have had to be some sort of physical paper ballot prior to the Internet (mid 1990s at the earliest). A similar American award is the Heisman Trophy, where prior to about 2007, paper ballots were mailed out to eligible voters, who filled them out and mailed them back to the Downtown Athletic Club (prior to 2001) or the Heisman Trophy Trust (since 2001). This describes the paper balloting procedure for the Heisman. I suspect it had to be something similar. --Jayron 32 14:06, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Not necessarily: they could have used phone, or telegram. --47.146.63.87 (talk) 06:26, 10 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This article says that in France (before 2018) you could send a telegram by phoning the operator (AFAIK this wasn't possible in the UK where telegrams were retired in 1982). I still think the normal mail service is more likely though. Alansplodge (talk) 13:44, 10 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

January 9

Smallest incorporated municipality in the US by area

What are the smallest incorporated municipality (village/town/city etc.) in the US by area?– Gilliam (talk) 19:16, 9 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Gilliam: Likely Monowi,_Nebraska, which is less than 1/4 square mile. RudolfRed (talk) 19:29, 9 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Woodlawn, Kentucky is 0.05 sq mi as is Crossgate, Kentucky, both incorporated municipalities. It's difficult to effectively search for the smallest municipality by area without regard to population. – Gilliam (talk) 22:36, 9 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Falls Church, Virginia is a giant compared to those two at 2.11 square miles, but its particularity, as noted in the article, is that it's the smallest independent municipality (i.e. not part of any county) in the U.S. --Xuxl (talk) 13:29, 10 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

By area, the two smallest incorporated municipalities in the US are Mobile City, Texas and Poplar Hills, Kentucky, which depending on the source, each has an area reported between 0.02 sq mi and 0.04 sq mi; mostly due to rounding errors since most sources don't get down to smaller units. One of those two is the smallest in the U.S. For comparison, that's about the area of ten football fields. --Jayron32 17:57, 10 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- The TIGER files[1] have Sycamore, Kentucky listed at 42,862m² vs Poplar Hill's 66,029m² both class "C1" which i believe is incorporated. Both are called "home rule-class" in the articles. Someone could go through all 70 some of those dbase files looking for smaller ones, if they felt like it.—eric 18:12, 10 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- 39,049m² for Mobile City, TX and 13,088m² for unincorporated Rafael Pena, Texas.—eric 18:18, 10 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - The OP specifically asked for incorporated. The term "unincorporated place" just means "any place that has a name". They are not municipalities. --Jayron32 19:13, 10 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    - It's the smallest Census-designated place, not just a named place. Should have linked TIGER, and Understanding "Place" in Census Bureau Data Products especially pages 9 and 10 in that PDF: The distinction between “legal” and “statistical” as well as incorporated and unincorporated can be fuzzy for some CDPs. You can cross all CDP smaller than Clayton off any "fuzzy" incorporation list though, they are all in Texas, with LSAD 57 and functional status S, though i did not know that until finding the gazetteer files. I thought (while admittedly not what was specifically asked for) the smallest CDP might be of passing interest to someone.—eric 05:25, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- And the census gazetteer files[2] (which i think is the same source only aggregated) has Clayton, Idaho smallest at 39,033m².—eric 18:31, 10 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - That seems to beat Mobile City. It is, according to my research, an honest-to-god municipality, in that it has a mayor and a city council, according to this. Interestingly, it has a population of 7 with 12 registered voters, which seems like an interesting trick. --Jayron32 19:13, 10 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    - One way the number of voters could be greater than the population would be if some former residents joined the military or moved to a foreign country or joined the military. The person who moved to a foreign country would continue to be a voter where he/she last resided in the US until he/she established a new US residence. The military member can continue to be considered a resident, for voting and driving purposes, of his/her last civilian residence, if the member wants to, even if the military member is stationed at a base in the US. Jc3s5h (talk) 21:14, 10 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      - The City tax boundary for Clayton is 186,720m², considerably larger than the census place and may include some additional residences on Kinnikinic Creek Road. I don't know the source of the discrepancy, or how a town's tax district could differ from the municipal boundary submitted for the census. Wikipedia uses the census places frequently without qualification. It may simply be that the Clayton has annexed an area not yet reflected in the census information, and is not currently the smallest. But that would not explain the population sign and voter roll numbers Idaho Code 50-402 may help.—eric 15:13, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In many places, you can vote if you're not a resident but own property in the municipality (and pay municipal taxes as a result). That could be the case here, with non-resident property owners swelling the voter ranks. Xuxl (talk) 18:07, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry about the side trip to Clayton, layers provided by Custer County[3] show three annexed parcels not reflected in the census TIGER files. The text in Poplar Hills, Kentucky and Mobile City, Texas claiming a tie for smallest probably came from looking at List of United States cities by population density which is obviously wrong. The smallest seems to be Mobile City: a trailer park, restaurant, and liquor store[4] incorporated in 1990[5] by thirsty residents of dry Rockwall County, Texas. It is completely surrounded[6] by Fate, Texas, and since other towns in the county have voted to allow sales of beer and wine in 2007[7] it seems unlikely there will be any need for further expansion.—eric 00:02, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

January 10

using car as generator

I'm looking into ways to occasionally get some electric power while off grid, and am wondering how those relatively high power (like 1kw) 12vdc to 110vac inverters work. You clip them to the car battery terminals, but how do you make sure the car motor is running fast enough that the energy is coming from the alternator rather than the battery? Do you have to crank up the idle speed? Is it ok for the car to leave the motor running for a few hours while running the inverter now and then? This isn't a prepper thing, but I wouldn't want it often enough to justify having a separate generator and dealing with storing it. More like a way to power computers while glamping. Thanks. 173.228.123.190 (talk) 21:18, 10 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You're right to be skeptical. You need a vehicle with a large engine to support such a device, and would likely need to run it above idle speed, which could cause problems like poor air quality due to all that exhaust. Also, leaving a vehicle running unattended is risking theft of the car or inverter. And when equipment like computers all starts up at once, far more than the average power is required for a few seconds. So, you need to start them up one at a time.

I suggest you use laptops, which have far lower power requirements and can be recharged by a plug connected to the cigar lighter. Some type of battery bank that you bring precharged to the event is another possibility, but make sure you can swap out the battery when it no longer holds much of a charge, rather than replace the entire unit. A dark tent will reduce the brightness needed on screens. NonmalignedNations (talk) 23:34, 10 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the idea is to power a laptop from a rechargeable power bank, and to use a car or generator to recharge the power bank when needed. I think you're right that using a car isn't practical, and I don't want to deal with a generator. I'll figure out some other way to do this. Thanks. 173.228.123.190 (talk) 00:14, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You can drive back to civilization and plug it in some socket. You'd probably have to drive back anyway to charge the car battery, as revving in place overheats the engine. Besides all those car parts you'd be stressing are mighty expensive. Kind of like using the side of a dinner plate to drive a nail into a wall. 89.172.2.98 (talk) 21:44, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What sort of power bank are you thinking of? Even 50000 mAh power banks normally charge off USB-C or microUSB [8]. To be fair it will take a while, but you're definitely not going to be charging at anything close to 1000 W. If you were charging at 1000 W, it will be very short charge time. Automobile auxiliary power outlet suggests that cigarette lighters use ~10A. This is only for a short time, still I suspect you can probably safely do 60W USB Power Delivery and definitely 30W. It will probably take a few hours to charge your power bank, however you probably don't want to be charging your power bank too fast anyway.

Even fancier devices like the Anker Powerhouse devices [9] [10], which themselves have inverters, do not require AC for charging AFAICT. Frankly it makes little sense since the batteries are surely not AC nor anything close to line voltage. The Powerhouse 200 supports USB PD charging. [11], it also mentions solar charging and AC charging . But the latter is just using an AC-DC adapter AFAICT. The 400 [12], surprisingly there is no mention of USB PD charging. Still it does mention DC Input: 16-17V/6A which is what I'd expect. I mean I'm sure they come with an AC adapter to charge it, but you don't have to use it.

I don't think they're really expecting you to charge either device with a car hence why there's no included adapter etc for charging it from a car. However if you did want to charge either with a car, it doesn't make any sense to use an inverter to me. Sure there are inefficiencies in the DC-DC etc, but it would still be far more efficient to simply use some sort of DC-DC adapter to charge them. The 200 frankly you could probably use a 60W USB PD. Anker don't seem to have a 60W car charger, I think their highest is 30W, however this Satechi may be okay [13] [14]. I assume it can also charge at 30W anyway, just slower. For the 400, you're maybe pushing the limit trying to charge from a cigarette lighter socket at maximum spec. However, it still seems to make much more sense to get something to connect direct to the car battery that does a simply DC-DC and produces the desired voltage and is able to handle the desired current, than putting an inverter in the mix.

As I said, I don't think it's generally expected you will charge these off the car. Either you get one that will last until you have access to electricity or you use a solar charger. But if you did really want to use a car, I'm confused why you'd throw an inverter in the mix. Note that even when charging off solar, it doesn't sound like they're thinking you will use an inverter either. If you're using a real generator to charge the device, then maybe it makes sense to use a lines voltage one with a AC adapter since you're talking about something designed for outputting line voltage. (I did see some with DC output for power tools, but I'm not sure they're a better choice in this case.)

Nil Einne (talk) 12:14, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

So is an idling car engine necessarily (or currently in practice) significantly less efficient in generating electricity than a small emergency diesel generator? By how much is it less efficient? A few tens of percents might be tolerable, several hundred percent might not be. 85.76.77.44 (talk) 00:23, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

An inverter delivering 1kw will draw more than 1000/12 = 83 amps from a 12V battery. This can be obtained with clip connections to the battery terminals (it is too much for a cigarette lighter socket) but a car alternator is current limited and usually unable to replenish such high current continuously, see Alternator (automotive)#Output current. Low price DC-to-AC inverters cannot deliver a low-distortion sine wave and their harmonic distortion can upset sensitive electronics, especially radio receivers and audio amplifiers. Hybrid electric vehicles such as Toyota Prius can provide a very efficiently self-charged supply of over 200VDC (see Toyota Prius#Batteries) that can serve appliances that accept DC (lighting, heating, Universal motors and regulated power supplies for electronic units). The recommendation above to use laptop(s) for computing away from home is good and you can charge devices such as phones from the laptop USB ports. DroneB (talk) 00:57, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

For emergency generators, I'd consider fuel efficiency to be almost a non-issue, but car motors are BIG compared to portable generators and it must take a lot of power just to keep them turning. Diesel motors are terrible for emergency generators by the way: starting up is hard on them and they want to run for long periods. The issues with using a car as I saw it were 1) regulating the motor speed to keep up with power demand, 2) capacity of the alternator to produce that much power for long periods, 3) thermal and other considerations running the car motor for hours with the car not moving (NonmalignedNations brought up emissions as another issue). For an emergency or occasional-use generator I'd consider a propane powered unit as an alternative to a gasoline one, but I haven't looked into it much. I've been in a few prolonged power outages and actually found them relaxing. A few flashlights and a battery powered radio were enough. Generators and computers were not needed. 173.228.123.190 (talk) 04:20, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Starting up stresses diesel motors, but the motor itself starts more reliably than a gasoline motor. And with the typical use patterns of an emergency generator either it won't see enough activations to wear down, or it'll run often and for long enough periods that it'll wear down less than a gasoline motor. They aren't made for diesel for no reason. 89.172.2.98 (talk) 21:44, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Well I don't know much about it, and was going partly by this (warning: NSFW language and off-color humor, but I find the guy's videos informative and I like watching them). He got a surplus diesel generator super cheap because it had gotten messed up by too many cold starts through normal period testing. Not mentioned is that transfer switches also regularly get messed by periodic tests, since they are often designed to be operated just a few times under load in their entire lifetime. 173.228.123.190 (talk) 22:04, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

By the way some trucks and tractors have power take-off (PTO) shafts that can be used to run generators, but my question was about using an ordinary passenger car. 173.228.123.190 (talk) 04:24, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Vehicle-to-grid is a recent way to use plug-in hybrid vehicles as a battery reserve on the grid. Relies on smart grids and automated control.

Otherwise cars are generally a terrible way to provide a generator. Generators are diesels, not petrol, and engines designed for that sort of use cycle. Cars aren't really set up to suit this, and their generators are tiny too. In particular, petrol engines are inefficient on part loads, and car generators are tiny compared to the engine power. Andy Dingley (talk)

I've never heard of a 1kw diesel generator. Generators that small are usually portable, powered by petrol (gasoline) or in some cases propane. Inverter-type generators are supposed to be more efficient at partial loads. There are some cheap small inverter generators out there[15] or even cheaper but I guess non-inverter-type [16], presumably crap, but maybe ok for very occasional use. But beyond the upfront purchase price, I don't have a reasonable place to store the thing, don't want to deal with smells and explosion/fire hazards from residual petrol in the tank, etc. Propane might be worth considering[17] if I was going to make a regular thing out of this, but it doesn't seem likely. A solar panel might be more practical than a generator if it can be set up away from tree cover. I'll look into that approach. Vehicle to grid sounds great with an electric car but for now I only have a traditional petrol-powered car. 173.228.123.190 (talk) 01:35, 12 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It may help if you better articulate what you're trying to do. As I mentioned above, it's not clear to me why you'd ever want to use an inverter to charge a power bank from a car. Nil Einne (talk) 12:17, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

January 11

Votes by US Electoral College

Hi, I have a request: how are the votes of the American Electoral College, sent to the Senate for final ratification? Mail, fax? Thanks so much. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.41.100.198 (talk) 17:37, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thisshould explain the process. Beach drifter (talk) 18:45, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it doesn't. It only says they have to "send" them "to designated Federal and State officials as soon as possible". Try again? --142.112.159.101 (talk) 05:00, 12 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It’s all in there, I can’t read it for you. Beach drifter (talk) 18:22, 12 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It says that the actual certificates must be sent, which rules out faxes and such. It doesn't specify exact manner of delivery (USPS, FedEx, random flunky in his personal car, etc) because such is not important and could become outdated (ie: if the law specified FedEx and FedEx went out of business it would be impossible to follow the law). --Khajidha (talk) 20:39, 12 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

From the website:

Certificates of Ascertainment should begin arriving at NARA and OFR within a few weeks after election day. NARA's mailroom makes a record of the Certificates of Ascertainment it receives and transmits them to the OFR

Certificates of Vote begin arriving at NARA and OFR shortly after the Meeting of the Electors. NARA's mailroom makes a record of the Certificates of Vote it receives and transmits them to the OFR.

-This makes it clear that most States mail their results to the National Archives and Records Adminstration/Office of Federal Register.

House and Senate staff meet with OFR staff to inspect the Certificates of Vote in late December. If any State’s Certificate fails to reach the President of the Senate, the President of the Senate calls on OFR to deliver duplicate originals in its possession to complete the set held by Congress.

Congress meets in joint session in the House of Representatives on January 6 to count the electoral votes. The Vice President, as President of the Senate, is the presiding officer. Tellers open, present, and record the votes of the States in alphabetical order.

-This makes it appear that the National Archives/Federal Register hand deliver the papers to the Senate, where they are opened and counted. Beach drifter (talk) 07:15, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Electoral College, New York

One question, I’ll be telegraphic. Does Electoral College in this state, (New York), have to put a cross on the name of the candidate on the ballot, when he’s called to vote for both the President and the Vice President? Thanks. http://www.archives.nysed.gov/education/electoral-college-ballot-bill-clinton-1992 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.41.100.198 (talk) 19:29, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

1. What's 'telegraphic?' 2. The question is unclear 3. This looks like some kind of do-my-homework question. Temerarius (talk) 22:49, 12 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I try to explain myself better: when the ballot is given to the member of the electoral college, he must affix a cross, (X), to make sure that his is a formally expressed vote, before inserting the ballot in an ballot box? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.41.100.198 (talk) 10:09, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In Clinton's first election, my boss was an elector. He has what looks like a diploma framed in his office. It says that he pledges to vote for Clinton. I asked him about the vote. He said that he was given a 3x5 manilla card with Clinton's name in fancy print. That is what he used to cast his vote, so he doesn't have it now. He didn't mention anything about placing an X or cross on any ballot. 135.84.167.41 (talk) 13:34, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks a lot, wow ... However the voters are not bound, so they could vote for any other candidate. In New York state, this little ballot is given to the voter from what you told me, and then ratifies the vote by signing a certificate, roughly speaking. But if one of the 33 voters had wanted to vote for another candidate, couldn't they have done so? Did they have to insert the ballot delivered to them in the ballot box? Thank you so much. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.41.100.198 (talk) 13:55, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The voters are not bound by federal law. They may be so bound by state law. Every state in the country has its own laws regulating their electors. Many states have formal requirements for how their electors are required to vote; in such states the actual vote is a pro forma affair, as regulations by the state do not allow such voters to free lance. You can see a state-by-state rundown of what each state's regulations and laws are here. --Jayron 32 18:54, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It may be worth pointing out that the validity of such state laws/regulations is disputed, and could be tested in the Supreme Court before too long. It appears that they are not currently valid in the 10th Circuit, following Baca v. Colorado Department of State. --Trovatore (talk) 19:20, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

And, before it is asked, see faithless electors. 135.84.167.41 (talk) 19:00, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

2016 New York State Electoral College Meeting posted by New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo's official YouTube Channel. Watching it, I did think it was largely ceremonial, with a lot of formal procedures and motions. The actual casting of the ballots by the electors begins around the 21:44 mark, with Bill Clinton and Andrew Cuomo being the first ones. The electors put one ballot card in one box for president and another card in the other box for VP. They then go and sign documents, which I assume include the Certificates of Ascertainment and Certificates of Vote mentioned in the previous question. The announcement of the results of the votes then begins at around 32:42, but again everything seemed pro forma and ceremonial here.

Keep in mind that other states may have a different electoral ballot format. As previously mentioned, not all states have formal requirements for how their electors are required to vote. This article has a picture of a Pennsylvania ballot with just a single fill-in-the-blank line, where the elector wrote in Trump. This article includes an image of one from Texas, with their electors being instructed to actually put an "x" next to the candidate's name: the first line is pre-printed with Trump's name, and the other line is a fill-in-the-blank to use for a faithless elector. And here's CNN's video about the faithless elector in Colorado, who crossed out the pre-printed Hilary Clinton and wrote in Johh Kasich. Zzyzx11 (talk) 05:38, 14 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

January 12

How do I contact you with more 'info' about an incorrect entry?

Dear Sir,

      how do I contact you to tell you there is a mistake in an article? 
  This is what I found on the Koh Chang Thailand page and what is incorrect.

Dear Sir,

      Koh Chang is the 2nd largest island in Thailand not Koh Samui. This is land mass. Probably not in any economic pr population just land mass as this article quotes a dispute of land mass of Koh Chang. Both sizes are much larger than Koh Samui. Please check the measurements and re quote your quotation.
  Thanks

Ian Wilton

 That is the letter I would like to send to you, how as I can't find an email address to bring this information to you.

Thanks for your help Ian Wilton — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.34.192.241 (talk) 12:56, 12 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure which article you are talking about. Is it Ko Chang District? In any case, you seem to be under a misapprehension about how Wikipedia works. There is no-one at the other end of an email address waiting to correct articles on the basis of emails such as yours. If you see an error in an article and want it to be corrected, you have to correct it yourself. All articles can be edited. However, any changes you make would have to be taken from reliable third party independent sources such as newspapers, journals and books. You can't just make your own statement about which island is bigger without such a reliable source. If the article you're talking about is indeed the one I have linked above, there is something about this issue of which island is bigger in the third paragraph of the article. --Viennese Waltz 13:31, 12 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Koh Chang isn’t Thailand’s Second Largest island. It is the Third. "Many of websites and travel articles begin their information about Koh Chang by stating that is is the second largest island in Thailand and the area is 429 square kilometers. They’re wrong. In reality, Phuket is the largest island in Thailand; Samui is the second and Koh Chang is the third". Apparently it's all down to an early error in Wikipedia. Alansplodge (talk) 14:14, 12 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That is used in our article although frankly since it seems to be measuring the size of the island using Google Maps and 'free tools' and 'the internet' probably isn't an RS. I'm sure the basic point is right, but our article could do with some work. Our article actually has a government figure for the size of Ko Chang, so if some RS could be found for the size of Ko Samui and Ko Phuket, arguably WP:CALC will at least be enough to establish their sizes relative to each other. BTW Ko Samui included the confusing claim it was the second largest after Ko Chang and Ko Phuket after this edit [18] but I've corrected that and added the non RS. (As the RS there didn't say anything about relative size.) Edit: Actually considering that the same government page says that Ko Chang is the 2nd largest, well ..... Nil Einne (talk) 10:02, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ian Wilton: Assuming Viennese Waltz is right about which article you're referring to, I think you're misreading it. It does give 2 sizes "419 km²" and "650 km²" which are much larger than Ko Samui, but neither of these are the size of the island as the text seems to make clear to me. They are the size of the district the island is in, and the national park the island is part of. The size of the island proper is given earlier as "212.947 km²" and since it's from a government source I'd like to assume it's accurate. Although as said above, considering the same government site says it's the 2nd largest I'm not so sure. In any case, we don't have a reliable source for the size of Ko Samui. But I'm also not seeing anything to suggest the info we have is incorrect, and especially nothing that suggests Ko Chang is much larger than Ko Samui. I think you must be confusing the size of the district or national park with the size of the island. Nil Einne (talk) 10:21, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Actually the 212 figure doesn't seem to have come from the TAT website. I think it may have been someone's OR. I've updated it to the figure of 217 which is what the TAT gives. They don't seem to have a figure for Ko Samui [19], and again they do repeat the claim it's the third largest. Still, I haven't seen anything to dispute the claim this is simply wrong due to confusion over the sizes. If you do have some source to establish the different sizes this would help a great deal. Nil Einne (talk) 10:47, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

To raise an issue about a particular article, the best place is that article's Talk page. On the article's page click the tab called "Talk" and you're now at the Talk page. Then click "Edit this page", scroll to the bottom, and add a new topic with your concerns spelt out. Then click "Publish changes", and you're done. Someone will see it soon enough and respond there. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 11:06, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Actually I disagree with that. Obviously it depends on how prominent the article is and how many people have it on their watchlists, but in my experience article talk pages are not a good place to raise issues about articles. I've raised issues about articles on their talk pages which have not received a reply months or even years later. In my opinion the best way to raise issues is to do what the OP has done and highlight them here on the RD, or (as I said to the OP) just be bold and make the chane (appropriately sourced, of course) yourself. --Viennese Waltz 11:18, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Another place is the appropriate WikiProject talk page, so I have put a brief note at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Thailand#Thailand_question_at_the_Reference_Desk to give them a "heads up". Alansplodge (talk) 13:56, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

January 13

JFK's presidential oath

From the videos you can clearly see that he does not rest his left hand on the Bible, but keeps it attached to the body. Was the oath equally valid? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.41.100.198 (talk) 20:34, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

According to the constitution (Article II, Section 1) [20], he just has to say the words. The bible, the judge, and all the rest are just ceremony.

A few presidents have skipped the bible altogether. Oath_of_office_of_the_President_of_the_United_States#Use_of_Bibles.

ApLundell (talk) 21:34, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, see the No Religious Test Clause of the U.S. Constitution: "…no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." --47.146.63.87 (talk) 23:59, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

When Keith Ellison was sworn in as the nation's first Muslim member of Congress, he chose to place his left hand on a copy of the Quran. To hear the right-wingers whine, you'd have thought he'd committed treason. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:55, 14 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Methinks Trump's minions were more afraid he'd commit reason. Clarityfiend (talk) 07:33, 14 January 2020 (UTC) [reply]

January 14

Did you know...

... that William Goldman secretly assembled a collection of photographs of prostitutes in Reading, Pennsylvania, in the 1890s? I note that the picture has been removed. Was there a complaint? Also who decides which articles will be featured? Thanks. Anton 81.131.40.58 (talk) 18:06, 14 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]