:::::Per [[WP:BLPPRIVACY]], "easily googleable" is not enough. IMO, none of the name-refs in this version [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mxmtoon&oldid=951098429] are obvious winners, but not necessarily awful either. Based on those refs, is the birthname [[WP:DUE]] to include? [[WP:CONSENSUS]] will be what it will be. [[User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|Gråbergs Gråa Sång]] ([[User talk:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|talk]]) 14:03, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
:::::Per [[WP:BLPPRIVACY]], "easily googleable" is not enough. IMO, none of the name-refs in this version [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mxmtoon&oldid=951098429] are obvious winners, but not necessarily awful either. Based on those refs, is the birthname [[WP:DUE]] to include? [[WP:CONSENSUS]] will be what it will be. [[User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|Gråbergs Gråa Sång]] ([[User talk:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|talk]]) 14:03, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
:Most of [[WP:OWN]] relates to editors acting like they own the content of the page. [[WP:COI]] is more relevant and relates to "... being promotional and omitting negative information." not issues of privacy. The question whether a persons name can be consider private or confidential information under certain circumstances, and if so what circumstances. In this case is further complicated by not knowing if it is just a case Maia's personal privacy preference or if there are other, perhaps more serious reasons, why she doesn't want this information disclosed. On the other hand there could be a COI in that the only reason she doesn't want her real name on the article is because she wants to avoid being associated with other family members. [[User:Jonpatterns|Jonpatterns]] ([[User talk:Jonpatterns|talk]]) 14:43, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
:Most of [[WP:OWN]] relates to editors acting like they own the content of the page. [[WP:COI]] is more relevant and relates to "... being promotional and omitting negative information." not issues of privacy. The question whether a persons name can be consider private or confidential information under certain circumstances, and if so what circumstances. In this case is further complicated by not knowing if it is just a case Maia's personal privacy preference or if there are other, perhaps more serious reasons, why she doesn't want this information disclosed. On the other hand there could be a COI in that the only reason she doesn't want her real name on the article is because she wants to avoid being associated with other family members. [[User:Jonpatterns|Jonpatterns]] ([[User talk:Jonpatterns|talk]]) 14:43, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
::According to [[WP:LPNAME]], I believe the correct course of action is to omit mxmtoon's name, as they have shown and continue to provide evidence of concealing their legal name. In this section, it says "When the name of a private individual has not been widely disseminated or has been intentionally concealed, such as in certain court cases or occupations, it is often preferable to omit it, especially when doing so does not result in a significant loss of context. " If the name has been intentionally concealed.... it is often preferred to omit it, especially if no context is lost. As mxmtoon has tried to solely use 'mxmtoon' and 'maia' as identifiers, it is irrelevant to include her name. One of the sources used in support of providing her name is the ACE repertory, which one's legal name is required to be used in regard to song and artist information.
Revision as of 16:18, 15 April 2020
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A fact from Mxmtoon appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 15 September 2019 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
Did you know... that 19-year-old mxmtoon, who records lo-fi songs in her parents' guest bedroom, reached 100 million streams and nearly sold out an international tour before releasing her first album?
There seems to be an edit war on whether or to include the artist's real name or not. Her name is listed on the Audiotree reference, so either she doesn't mind, or Audiotree have knowingly (or unknowingly) flouted her wishes. Jonpatterns (talk) 10:22, 12 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hello Jonpatterns. I'm not involved in any edit war. I just restored some content to a previous stable version before there had been major disruption to references meaning the whole article was covered in cite errors. Prior to my edit, the references were in a complete mess due to content removal by IP editor(s). I don't have strong views either way whether her real name should be included or not. Regards, Kind Tennis Fan (talk) 20:14, 12 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Jonpatterns: Yes, Audiotree may have flouted her wishes, as the artist tries to keep her full name private. However, the information is now out and accessible so there should be no reason why it shouldn't be used. A star (especially at her current stage of fame) can't go a whole career without people finding out their full name anyway. There will probably be many people (fans and even the artist's personnel) who will try and revert the full name edit... Do you think it would be necessary to put any type of page-protection on? heyitsben!!talk 08:00, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm undecided on whether the artist's full name should be included. I don't know if there is a consensus on this issue? At any rate a consensus should be sort on this talk page. Page protection may be needed. Maybe protect against unregistered editors, as the reverts seem to come from them - and they haven't joined this discussion yet. Jonpatterns (talk) 08:09, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Mccull415, Modtoon, HeyitsBen, and Kind Tennis Fan: To move forward we need to state the arguments for and against including real name Mxmtoon's, and how those arguments are backing by Wikipedia's policies. Also, are there any sources for the claim Mxmtoon doesn't want her real name in the public sphere? Wikipedia:Naming conventions (people) only states common usage name should be the article's name, not whether or not a real name should be included. Jonpatterns (talk) 06:59, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
As there does not appear to be any evidence that she does want her name kept secret, and the sources are available it should remain - Anonymous people claimming she does not want it is not a reason to remove the information. Either way, per WP:BRD it should remain until consensus is reached otherwise.noq (talk) 07:15, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Mccull415, Modtoon, HeyitsBen, Kind Tennis Fan, and Jonpatterns: Hi there, this is Maia (mxmtoon's wiki account) stepping in. Audiotree as well as other sources did not pay mind to my PR firm's instruction as to not include my full legal name. It's been a repeated choice to not have my name available for public knowledge when possible, and is seen through a multitude of press articles stating such. I'm aware my name will be available online, but having it on a wikipedia page goes directly against my wishes as an artist as well as my entire team that I work with. I'm more than happy to involve my management or legal team to get this figured out, but I request that my last name not be on the wikipedia page for my artist project. The common named I would like to be referred to as is "Maia" and nothing beyond that. MaiaXMT (talk) 07:55, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It is advised that you email info-en@wikimedia.org to resolve this problem. If upheld the past versions of the page with the full name will likely be removed too. I couldn't find any source to back up the statement "I would like to be referred to as is "Maia" and nothing beyond that", could you provide a link? Jonpatterns (talk) 08:13, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No really. There is no right for the subject of an article to be able to censor material from Wikipedia on the basis that they don't want people to know it. The information is accurate and is sourced. It is basic biographical information and would be expected to be in any encyclopaedic article about the subject. noq (talk) 08:44, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Jonpatterns and Noq: Here's an excerpt from an interview I did with NPR, "mxmtoon — who otherwise prefers to go by her first name, Maia — " [1]and the SF Chronicle, "19-year-old internet phenom from Oakland, whose first name is Maia (and whose last name she prefers not to share)" [2] *I have since stricken a tweet from this as the two sources should provide enough evidence that I don't want my full name used. MaiaXMT (talk) 08:47, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@MaiaXMT: Thanks, did you email info-en@wikimedia.org ? I am not an administrator and I'm not 100% sure on what Wikipedia policy is on this matter. @Noq: What is the Wikipedia policy to back up this statement "There is no right for the subject of an article to be able to censor material from Wikipedia on the basis that they don't want people to know it." I don't think this is 100% correct, as Wikipedia wouldn't what to publish someone's address, or reveal the name of a police protected witness. We do not know the reason for the desire for the real name not to be disclosed. Jonpatterns (talk) 09:27, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That policy would be WP:OWN. Guidance at WP:BLPPRIVACY. Basically, if the sources are BLP-good (no primary sources, for example), include it. If not, "err on the side of caution". Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:42, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Noq: Hi, if you would look at the only note about mxmtoon on the page, I am going to quote " She uses the pseudonym Maia and has never personally disclosed her full name for privacy reasons." is it an issue to respect that? Mccull415 (talk) 13:38, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
From WP:OWN, "person or an organization that is the subject of an article does not own the article, and has no right to dictate what the article may say." There does not appear to be a dispute about the facts. As to concern about naming her if shw was in witness protection, that is a straw man argument. We have a source, it appears accurate. It is easily googleable so concerns about outing someone do not apply. That they don't want it known is not material. noq (talk) 13:25, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Per WP:BLPPRIVACY, "easily googleable" is not enough. IMO, none of the name-refs in this version [1] are obvious winners, but not necessarily awful either. Based on those refs, is the birthname WP:DUE to include? WP:CONSENSUS will be what it will be. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:03, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Most of WP:OWN relates to editors acting like they own the content of the page. WP:COI is more relevant and relates to "... being promotional and omitting negative information." not issues of privacy. The question whether a persons name can be consider private or confidential information under certain circumstances, and if so what circumstances. In this case is further complicated by not knowing if it is just a case Maia's personal privacy preference or if there are other, perhaps more serious reasons, why she doesn't want this information disclosed. On the other hand there could be a COI in that the only reason she doesn't want her real name on the article is because she wants to avoid being associated with other family members. Jonpatterns (talk) 14:43, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
According to WP:LPNAME, I believe the correct course of action is to omit mxmtoon's name, as they have shown and continue to provide evidence of concealing their legal name. In this section, it says "When the name of a private individual has not been widely disseminated or has been intentionally concealed, such as in certain court cases or occupations, it is often preferable to omit it, especially when doing so does not result in a significant loss of context. " If the name has been intentionally concealed.... it is often preferred to omit it, especially if no context is lost. As mxmtoon has tried to solely use 'mxmtoon' and 'maia' as identifiers, it is irrelevant to include her name. One of the sources used in support of providing her name is the ACE repertory, which one's legal name is required to be used in regard to song and artist information.
