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== POW/MIA Flag in info box ==
== POW/MIA Flag in info box ==


@[[User:Illegitimate Barrister|Illegitimate Barrister] added the [[National League of Families POW/MIA flag]] to the infobox, under the logic that it is a quasi second national flag, being flown at many federal buildings. I removed it, under the logic that it was too big of a change to be made without discussing on the talk page.
@[[User:Illegitimate Barrister|Illegitimate Barrister]] added the [[National League of Families POW/MIA flag]] to the infobox, under the logic that it is a quasi second national flag, being flown at many federal buildings. I removed it, under the logic that it was too big of a change to be made without discussing on the talk page.


So, should this flag be in the infobox or not? [[User:MRN2electricboogaloo|MRN2electricboogaloo]] ([[User talk:MRN2electricboogaloo|talk]]) 21:47, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
So, should this flag be in the infobox or not? [[User:MRN2electricboogaloo|MRN2electricboogaloo]] ([[User talk:MRN2electricboogaloo|talk]]) 21:47, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Revision as of 21:47, 27 January 2024

Former good articleUnited States was one of the Geography and places good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Did You KnowOn this day... Article milestones
DateProcessResult
December 15, 2005Good article nomineeListed
May 7, 2006Featured article candidateNot promoted
May 8, 2006Featured article candidateNot promoted
May 18, 2006Peer reviewReviewed
July 3, 2006Featured article candidateNot promoted
September 21, 2006Peer reviewReviewed
October 19, 2006Featured article candidateNot promoted
June 19, 2007Featured article candidateNot promoted
July 9, 2008Good article reassessmentKept
June 27, 2009Featured article candidateNot promoted
September 6, 2009Peer reviewReviewed
January 19, 2011Peer reviewReviewed
March 18, 2012Good article reassessmentDelisted
August 10, 2012Good article nomineeNot listed
January 21, 2015Good article nomineeListed
February 22, 2020Good article reassessmentDelisted
December 19, 2020Peer reviewReviewed
Did You Know A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on February 3, 2015.
The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that the United States accounts for 37% of all global military spending?
On this day... A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on July 4, 2008.
Current status: Delisted good article

Literature section rewrite

The below section is a rewrite of United States#Literature based on The Norton Anthology of American Literature, shorter 8th edition, a popular undergrad-level English textbook. In addition to the many excerpts and entire works contained within the book, it also has introductory passages between sections. These each include a brief synopsis of American literature during that era. I realize a rewrite of a whole section may be controversial, so I've posted it here first. Rjjiii (talk) 06:09, 26 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I would suggest picking up a copy of The Heath Anthology of American Literature for a more inclusive summary. -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 09:41, 26 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@SashiRolls: I don't know if you meant that as a genuine suggestion, but it does not seem actionable. I see that you added the paragraph on négritude.[1] Despite having an in-depth section on the Harlem Renaissance, Heath does not appear to ever use the word. If you want expand on that era, Langston Hughes could be added, possibly in a way that links double consciousness. I don't think Heath mentions Nella Larsen but she is very highly regarded among modern literary critics.
The current literature section has problematic sourcing. The reliance on primary and very specific sourcing, makes it impossible to lean on a WP:RS to determine WP:DUE weight to place on topics. Also the first paragraph can't be verified by inline citations. Rjjiii (talk) 17:12, 26 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hortense Spillers, writing the intro to "The New Negro Renaissance" section of The Heath (vol 2, 2nd ed., 1994), after mentioning the role of Caribbean authors, like Garvey and McKay, in the movement says the following on page 1581:

Johnson's and Countee Cullen's lyrics, and Langston Hughes's maverick experimentation with 12-bar blues modes in verse sustained, in fact, an international dimension that has not been descriptively exhausted. Lilyan Lagneau-Kesteloot taps this source of filiation in her study of Négritude and the Francophone-focused Négritude movement that outlines contact between certain Renaissance dogmatizers -- Alain Locke, among others -- with West African expatriates, including [...] Senghor [...], Césaire [...].

Indeed the article cited goes farther, exploring who specifically was responsible for this contact in Paris during the Jazz age, when many (following Frederick Douglass) found Europe a welcome respite from race barriers in the US. Of course Spillers also mentions Nella Larsen, saying her best work lay ahead of that time period. Not sure what you were reading? Also notice I added one clause of one sentence about "négritude" and two sentences total about "the new negro renaissance" which is covered in 150 pages in the Heath. -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 17:38, 26 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@SashiRolls: Thanks, the volume, edition, and publication date help. The version on the internet archive [2] has different pagination beginning on 1579. Seeing how it's placed within this section makes it seem not WP:DUE. I'll add a full citation for Heath in the draft below if you want to add another line. Rjjiii (talk) 18:05, 26 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nah, we can keep the original sourcing, nothing wrong with Johns Hopkins University press, or the African American Review. If you feel the need to add a second corroborating footnote to the existing text, feel free. -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 18:13, 26 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@SashiRolls: Could you summarize what my issue regarding WP:DUE seems to be from your perspective? Rjjiii (talk) 18:17, 26 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The problem with the text below is that it contains very little information, e.g. "Postwar literature expanded the themes, subjects, forms, and regions covered." It is also misleading. Modernism was anything but a nationalistic monolith... to take the two most obvious examples: Ezra Pound was into the troubadours and lived in Italy, Eliot renounced his American citizenship. As noted above, the Harlem Renaissance was most certainly not interested only in the US as your topic sentence about modernism's nationalism would suggest (Cf. §). Also, I have demonstrated that the link to Négritude is mentioned in a standard university textbook on American literature. The fact that American literature had influence on Léopold Senghor (first president of Sénégal) and Aimé Césaire (mayor of Fort-de-France), both literary giants, should perhaps suffice to show its WP:DUEiness, no? -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 18:39, 26 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AUnited_States&diff=1187001949&oldid=1186983450 Rjjiii (talk) 21:14, 26 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Could you work on the Beat section? I think you may have missed some of its most salient characteristics (e.g. drugs, sex, Buddhism, among many others...) I am also a bit surprised to see Burroughs and Kerouac described as poets? -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 22:20, 26 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I reworked the Beat section. Heath doesn't mention Buddhism though. Philipson (2006) is WP:UNDUE; we need sources about the United States. Also, he does not even verify the claim about Pan-Africanism. In the first line, he describes the movement as American and regarding Pan-Africanism: "Pan-Africanism as a living movement, a tangible accomplishment, is a little and negligible thing," Du Bois wrote in his compte rendu published in The New Negro (Locke 411). It wasn't until the British Commonwealth had produced an African middle class elite capable of leading the masses that Pan-Africanism really took off as a potent ideology in the 1940s which is after the Harlem/Negro Renaissance. I changed the citations; your changes broke some links and created incorrect bibliographic information. I changed the short footnote to make it clear that the author was Spillers; I may add a wikilink to her article. Rjjiii (talk) 05:53, 27 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You should be citing the chapter author and title when you refer to a chapter in a collective work. You should make clear that you are quoting neither Heath nor Philipson (which both verify what is written). Like earlier when you claimed that Heath did not mention "négritude" I'm a bit concerned by your random citations. It is not surprising that Marcus Garvey's opponent Dubois would minimize pan-Africanism. As Philipson says, the third aspect of the Harlem Renaissance was that it provided a model and inspiration for subsequent postcolonial movements, i.e. négritude. There is no reason to remove the reference or the word (cf. MOS:EGG) from the section. -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 06:22, 27 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Agree entirely. Shoreranger (talk) 16:12, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The citation formatting was cleaned up before being moved into the live article. Regards, Rjjiii (talk) 21:56, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AUnited_States&diff=1187580119&oldid=1187513264 changes Rjjiii (talk) 03:16, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate that you are trying to help, however, your removal of mention of Thoreau & Emerson, Nobel Prize Winners like Faulkner, Toni Morrison, etc., GAN claims for Moby Dick (among others) are not improvements and there is no consensus above for those removals. -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 13:39, 1 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I have to agree. These babies have been thrown out with the bathwater. Shoreranger (talk) 16:09, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Much of the previous sentences were lists in prose format. Perhaps there is someway to place lists in a sidebar, the way we do with navigation and quotes? If so then we could just do a sidebar list of Nobel laureates (a hard criteria that would limit expansion).
If you (or anyone else) does add Morrison or Faulker, consider using high quality sources already in the article. Like: For example, influential Nobel Prize Laureate [[Toni Morrison]] melded African-American folklore, musical traditions, and slave narratives.{{sfn|Lauter|1994b|pp=973-976; 2873}} [[William Faulkner]]—an earlier Nobel prize-winning author—wrote with unusual structures drawn from the Bible, classical mythology, and contemporary American culture.{{sfn|Lauter|1994b|pp=973-976; 1543-1546}} The WP:DUEWEIGHT in our "Neutral point of view" policy is important, but the sourcing is an even more foundational aspect. Regards, Rjjiii (talk) 21:53, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Literature

Main articles: American literature and American philosophy
Photograph of Mark Twain
Mark Twain, who William Faulkner called "the father of American literature"[1]

Colonial American authors were influenced by John Locke and other Enlightenment philosophers.[2][3] Before and shortly after the Revolutionary War, the newspaper rose to prominence, filling a demand for anti-British national literature.[4][5] During the American Renaissance of the nineteenth century, writers like Walt Whitman and Harriet Beecher Stowe established a distinctive American literary tradition.[6][7] As literacy rates rose, periodicals published increasing numbers of stories centered around industrial workers, women, and the rural poor.[8][9] Naturalism, regionalism, and realism—the latter associated with Mark Twain—were the major literary movements of the period.[10][11]

While modernism generally took on an international character, modernist authors working within the United States more often rooted their work in specific regions, peoples, and cultures.[12] Following the Great Migration to northern cities, African-American and black West Indian authors of the Harlem Renaissance developed an independent tradition of literature that rebuked a history of inequality and celebrated black culture.[13] In the 1950s, an ideal of homogeneity led many authors to attempt to write the "Great American Novel",[14] while the Beat Generation rejected this conformity, using styles that elevated the impact of the spoken word over mechanics to describe drug use, sexuality, and the failings of society.[15][16] Contemporary literature is more pluralistic than in previous eras, with the closest thing to a unifying feature being a trend toward self-conscious experiments with language.[17]

References

  1. ^ Jelliffe, Robert A. (1956). Faulkner at Nagano. Tokyo: Kenkyusha, Ltd.
  2. ^ Baym & Levine 2013, pp. 157–159.
  3. ^ Lauter 1994a, pp. 503–509.
  4. ^ Baym & Levine 2013, p. 163.
  5. ^ Mulford, Carla. "Enlightenment Voices, Revolutionary Visions." In Lauter 1994a, pp. 705–707.
  6. ^ Baym & Levine 2013, pp. 444–447.
  7. ^ Lauter 1994a, pp. 1228, 1233, 1260.
  8. ^ Baym & Levine 2013, pp. 1269–1270.
  9. ^ Lauter 1994b, pp. 8–10.
  10. ^ Baym & Levine 2013, pp. 1271–1273.
  11. ^ Lauter 1994b, p. 12.
  12. ^ Baym & Levine 2013, pp. 1850–1851.
  13. ^ Spillers, Hortense. "The New Negro Renaissance." In Lauter 1994b, pp. 1579–1585.
  14. ^ Baym & Levine 2013, pp. 2260–2261.
  15. ^ Baym & Levine 2013, p. 2262.
  16. ^ Lauter 1994b, pp. 1975–1977. "Literature of the Cold War".
  17. ^ Baym & Levine 2013, pp. 2266–2267.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

It will probably make the most sense to post responses to this in the above section, Rjjiii (talk) 06:09, 26 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Article written by a New Yorker?

Articles seems to have be written by someone in New York as its mentioned 65 times, let alone Manhattan being mentioned 6 times. 204.237.91.211 (talk) 19:02, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Given that New York is the largest city by population in the United States and the US center of both publishing and finance, it should hardly be surprising that it is mentioned frequently in this article. Also, you seem to be including the names of publications (e.g., New York Times) and the appearances of New York as a location within references (see above re: publishing). There are actually closer to 20 mentions of the city itself in this article. General Ization Talk 19:20, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The notion that one New Yorker wrote or substantially wrote this article is incorrect. Over 5000 editors have contributed to this article, and 48 of them have made 100 or more edits. This is a highly collaborative article. Cullen328 (talk) 19:34, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I also think the count does not differentiate between the city and the state, which would inflate the number. Shoreranger (talk) 13:44, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
United Kingdom mentions London 38 times. TFD (talk) 11:48, 31 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Excellent response. Shoreranger (talk) 21:25, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's a valid observation, though. Outside of lists or references, the top 5 largest cities as stated in the article are mentioned:

  1. New York: 24 times
  2. Los Angeles: 4 times
  3. Chicago: 0 times
  4. Dallas: 0 times
  5. Houston: 1 time

Manhattan, a borough of New York City, is also discussed or mentioned an additional 7 times, more than any major city.

On a related note, I'm gathering sources to do the Fashion section which was originally added mainly about New York. Feel free to use any of these:[1][2][3][4][5]

References

  1. ^ Gunn, Tim (2012). Tim Gunn's fashion bible : the fascinating history of everything in your closet. New York : Gallery Books. ISBN 978-1-4516-4385-5.
  2. ^ Ilchi, Layla (13 May 2021). "Who Is Halston? Everything to Know About the Iconic Fashion Designer and His Legacy". WWD.
  3. ^ Nast, Condé (14 January 2021). "The United States of Fashion". Vogue.
  4. ^ Nast, Condé (12 February 2015). "How America Can Win the Fashion Cold War". Vanity Fair.
  5. ^ Nast, Condé (12 February 2015). "How America Can Win the Fashion Cold War". Vanity Fair.

Regards, Rjjiii (talk) 19:36, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As I recall, Chicago_school_(architecture) was mentioned in the article before it was removed in an overzealous machete swipe. Another approach would be to mention redlining.-- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 20:32, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Chicago school of economics, [3]. The article could use a single clear sentence that explicitly lays out segregation, Jim Crow laws (in the south), and redlining (in northern cities like Chicago), maybe right after reference [110]. I don't think much needs to be added to the article though; it's inching back towards 10,000 words. A chunk of the New York stuff comes from images and asides, like the bit about Mormonism. Rjjiii (talk) 22:10, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This is the modification which removed the Chicago school of architecture and replaced it with a picture of a New York building. -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 22:56, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I've added a single, clear sentence. It may be a bit dense. Feel free to tweak it. -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 00:58, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I've also reworked the aside about Mormonism into something more historically relevant. In the process I looked at trying to remove the PoV that keeps popping back into the religion section, and found a misrepresented source. None of this has all that much to do with the NY bias... on that score it's surprising that neither Baltimore nor New Orleans are mentioned, given their historical importance. -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 17:05, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
But far less current importance. TFD (talk) 11:50, 31 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps, though when the levees on Lake Pontchartrain broke in 2005 it was quite a notable catastrophe (as was Harvey in Houston a few years later). Baltimore is surely at least notable for "The Star-Spangled Banner" and The Wire. :) 15:33, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 January 2024

Change the stated population from "over 333 million" to "over 334 million" in the lead section of the article to reflect the latest census updates. TensorPointer (talk) 00:37, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Happy new year! ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me! 03:45, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Correction was requested 10 days ago (above, "New 2023 US Estimates"), but glad someone has fixed it. 71.255.77.207 (talk) 19:24, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pamphlet

This might not be the right department since I could not find a phone number. I am originally from Maryland. I was given a bible about 50 years ago dates 1894 found a brochure or pamphlet in in in excellent condition with the company of Pretzincer’s Gatarrh Balm company on it 8 pages. It’s been in my closet for many years. I’m donating the Bible but contents I am not. Would like to find the interesting home. This is history and would like it to go home. Julie 2601:547:1200:5850:4CD4:1C56:B48D:A33A (talk) 18:33, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wikimedia Commons is apt to host such things. You might ask at their help desk. You might also consider listing it on eBay, where a similar such pamphlet, rather dog-eared at that, is listed for $95 (but that's not necessarily indicative of its real value). Note that the proper spelling is Pretzinger's Catarrh Balm. Possibly the most relevant article Wikipedia itself has is on the company founder's Dayton house. Dhtwiki (talk) 05:45, 23 January 2024 (UTC) (edited 05:47, 23 January 2024 (UTC))[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 January 2024

Change 'though' to 'through' in the education section. "The United States tertiary education is primarily THOUGH the state university system" Dhuibhshithe (talk) 03:57, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done RudolfRed (talk) 05:17, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

POW/MIA Flag in info box

@Illegitimate Barrister added the National League of Families POW/MIA flag to the infobox, under the logic that it is a quasi second national flag, being flown at many federal buildings. I removed it, under the logic that it was too big of a change to be made without discussing on the talk page.

So, should this flag be in the infobox or not? MRN2electricboogaloo (talk) 21:47, 27 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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