User talk:DrChrissy

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Thanks

Hi DrChrissy, just wanted to say thanks for your participation at the ref desks! A quick glance here shows you are also very active at improving WP mainspace, so thanks for that too. I keep meaning to do more for articles, but I usually only have the attention span to make minor grammar edits, and deal with higher level stuff as one-offs at the ref desk :) SemanticMantis (talk) 00:19, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks very much for the positive message. Your stuff at the ref desk is always very informative and well written - keep up the good work! I intend to start a shake up of the Cursorial article tomorrow - I might see you there. All the best. DrChrissy ^(talk) 00:26, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Yes, thanks for your edits on the cursorial thread at the ref desk. μηδείς (talk) 01:46, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

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ArbCom elections are now open!

Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 14:30, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

No turkey celebration in your neck of the woods?

Here in the US we welcome every opportunity for a holiday!! If it were left up to our school children, they would transpose the number of school days with the number of holidays. DrChrissy, I sympathize with what you're going through with the waves battering against your shoreline. It's erosive, even against solid rock. Sometimes the behavior I've witnessed at the drama boards reminds me a little of the book, "Cannibalism, Ecology and Evolution Among Diverse Taxa" published by the Oxford University Press. Perhaps it has something to do with the book's description per the NYT "that when animals eat their own species they are not just looking for another meal but also seeking to destroy competitors", [1]. Granted, it's a rather extreme hyperbole, so I will AGF by saying that I can't imagine any editor who doesn't want to edit unencumbered or be shackled by mass confusion. I've also heard that when a storm moves inland, it dissipates so the best thing to do is just batten down the hatches and ride it out. Can you believe the holidays are upon us? Wow. Atsme^📞📧 18:25, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

DrChrissy, I just want to add that I can very much empathize with how stressful that AN discussion must be for you, and I want to offer you my sincere hopes that you can be of good cheer nonetheless. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:53, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Both. Yes, the ArbCom situation is EXTREMELY stressful - not least because it has been totally unexpected (perhaps naively) on my part. I'm currently being very guarded about my comments about the process because I really fear they may draw unintended attention to others who do not deserve this and my comments may also cause a backlash against me. I think the worst part is the absolute silence and the apparent lack of reading of our comments and questions. It really is...well...(please insert your own words!) But I will post something about my take on the process and findings when the dust has settled. As for Turkeys in my neck of the woods - I live in a rural area (Somerset) where shooting of game birds is a popular pastime for some. I don't eat turkeys (after having worked with them under modern production husbandry systems), so I might try pheasant this Christmas. Hope you have enjoyed your Thanksgiving celebrations. By the way - have you seen that Petrarchan appears to have retired? Very worrying.DrChrissy ^(talk) 19:12, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

I've seen that, but I had best not comment. I also saw that Guy apologized to SageRad, which is something happier. Let me presume to say some things about the ArbCom case. The way it looks for you, it will likely have two effects. One is that you will not be able to edit about GMO plants or agricultural chemicals, two subject where I suspect you really do not have many interests. (I don't know what will happen at AN, but my gut feeling is that that topic ban will be lifted.) The other is that, in the unlikely event that Jytdog comes back, he will be forced to leave you alone. Interestingly, he will be forbidden to edit about GMO animals such as that salmon, whereas you will be free to edit there, and he won't be able to say anything about your editing there. If you look at it that way, then maybe it's not that bad, although I don't mean by that to minimize the stress of it in any way. And I think that I have already made it abundantly clear that I am less than impressed by the way those in charge have handled the GMO case. As for my Thanksgiving, "I can't believe I ate the whole thing" (a catch-phrase from a long-ago US TV ad for an antacid). Truly, I hope that you are able to remain cheerful and that the near future will allow you to put all the aggravation behind you. Best, --Tryptofish (talk) 19:42, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

I have just realised I misread your first posting. I thought you were talking about the ArbCom process, but you are talking about the AN process. Yes, I am also extremely frustrated about what is going on at AN. One thing I have found out about myself, and this has been with your help, is that when I am being goaded, I struggle to understand where the line is between defending myself and feeding the trolls. It is obvious that I am being goaded over there, but I have always had a strong sense of fairness, and what goes on over there is absolutely not fair. I have seriously considered withdrawing my appeal and walking away from wikipedia, but I will not do that. There is so much support for me over there that I would be letting down those people by withdrawing. I may, however, take a break from editing for a while. I just wish an Admin would step in and close it. The discussion is now not doing anybody any good - it is simply becoming another example of a rather dysfunctional process.DrChrissy ^(talk) 20:10, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

I've had my own share of me replying many times during dispute resolution and later wishing that I had responded fewer times. It's a no-win situation, and a frustrating one. I, too, have been musing out loud on my user talk page about walking away, but I've been coming to the conclusion that what people here say about me reveals more about them than about me. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:28, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Yes I saw your comments and I followed what went on leading to those with great sympathy for you. I would not have blamed you for walking away and I am very glad you did not. I'm rather lacking in motivation at the moment (for some reason!) but maybe we (and others of course) should try and turn this into a positive and ensure that these processes are looked at. One idea I had was to develop an ethics committee of paid members who are not associated with WP in any other way to look at these dispute processes. Just an idea.DrChrissy ^(talk) 20:36, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the kind words. (And User:Tryptofish/ACE2015.) --Tryptofish (talk) 21:17, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

I agree many threads on Wikipedia are frustrating and unproductive because they are controlled by editors who either do not read and consider arguments opposed to their own position, or who repeatedly project shadow aspects of their own behaviour onto other editors. Responding in a thoughtful manner is a complete waste of time. And because there's no impartial centralised decision body on Wikipedia, there is nothing that can be done about it. There's ArbCom of course, a rather politicized body that often manages to make things worse. I like your idea of an independent paid ethics board DrChrissy, though there remains the issue of how the members of that board would be selected and held to account. --Epipelagic (talk) 21:41, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

And, in what is probably the reason it will not happen, there also remains the issue of getting the community to buy into the idea. Any RfC about adopting it would look like the worst ANI thread imaginable. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:49, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Well yes, but you are talking about trying to change the system from within the system itself. That won't happen. But other external interests have a stake in open source information. Wikipedia is currently the world's premier repository of open source information. This information does not belong to Jimbo Wales and the maintenance workers. It was put there, for free, by the content builders. The global push for open source information is not going away, and it is a push that is bigger than Wikipedia. I would think many professional bodies will be looking for better treatment than Wikipedia currently offers their members when they try to contribute definitive open source information. If the Wikipedia administration in unable to to develop some sensitivity and respect towards content development then Wikipedia will lose status. If the janitors remain in control Wikipedia is going to be increasingly bypassed as a serious project. --Epipelagic (talk) 22:38, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Hmmmm...I think DrChrissy's proposal has merit and might just fit the project if presented properly to the Foundation via the IdeaLab, [2]. What could it hurt if he/we at least presented his idea for consideration? Atsme^📞📧 22:16, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Banners

DrChrissy, you found a page that I completely forgot about - User talk:Atsme/Banners. In fact, I created User:Atsme/Banners because I couldn't find the other one! 👀 Now I know where it is and will figure out some way to merge the two. Thank you! Atsme^📞📧 16:58, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

I think I found it only by following your links, so you might have a link there that you don't want/did not realise. I particularly liked the "blocks" one!DrChrissy ^(talk) 17:11, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

A little nonsequitur on Domesticated turkey...

Hi DrChrissy, I just wanted you to know that I'm not trying to actually remove that passage on the FAWC data. I just can't figure out what it's trying to say. As it stands, it's looks nonsequitur, is unclear, and looks like original analysis. I left (will leave) some details of what I mean on the talk page. DrAlso (talk) 20:58, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Hi DrChrissy, On the DT talk page I added a detailed analysis of the logic errors, innuendo, etc. in the first paragraph of the "Welfare Concerns" section. Would you like a crack at addressing it? DrAlso (talk) 08:36, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

Has been addressed. By the way, it is generally considered very bad manners to ban someone from your talk page and then post to their talk page! Your message above is about article content and should have been posted to the article Talk page, not here.DrChrissy ^(talk) 19:02, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

Anecdotal gar reports

See the link when you get a chance. It's one of the reasons I was reluctant in using the photo. [3] I'll do some further checking on Commons. Thanks in advance... Atsme^📞📧 20:23, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

I had a look yesterday and realised they were the same photos! The link has left me a little confused - are the images photoshopped?DrChrissy ^(talk) 17:12, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

They're probably legitimate snapshots but the concern is whether or not the ones uploaded to Commons were properly licensed by the actual copyright holder, or if they are unauthorized copies that were farmed off the internet. The images are currently on a sort of watchlist at Commons. Atsme^📞📧 20:55, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

It's that time of year....

Christmas tree worm, (Spirobranchus gigantic)
	Time To Spread Some Happy Holiday Cheer!!
	I decorated a special kind of Christmas tree in the spirit of the season. What's especially nice about the digitized version is that it doesn't need water, and it won't catch fire.
	Wishing you a joyous holiday season... ...and a prosperous New Year!! 🍸🎁 🎉
	--Atsme📞📧 22:22, 10 December 2015 (UTC)	Pure pun-ishment. [4]

Genetically modified organisms case closed

This arbitration case has been closed and the final decision is available at the link above. The following remedies have been enacted:

1) Standard discretionary sanctions are authorised for all pages relating to genetically modified organisms, agricultural biotechnology, and agricultural chemicals, broadly construed.

2) Editors are prohibited from making more than one revert per page per day on any page relating to genetically modified organisms, agricultural biotechnology, and agricultural chemicals, broadly construed and subject to the usual exemptions.

3) Jytdog and DrChrissy are placed indefinitely under a two-way interaction ban.

7) DrChrissy is indefinitely topic-banned from all pages relating to genetically modified plants and agricultural chemicals, broadly interpreted; appeals of this ban may be requested no earlier than twelve months since the date the case closed.

8) Jytdog is indefinitely topic-banned from all pages relating to genetically modified organisms and agricultural chemicals, broadly interpreted; appeals of this ban may be requested no earlier than twelve months since the date the case closed.

9) Jytdog is admonished for their poor civility in relation to the locus of this case.

11) SageRad is indefinitely topic-banned from all pages relating to genetically modified organisms and agricultural chemicals, broadly construed; appeals of this ban may be requested no earlier than twelve months since the date the case closed.

12) Wuerzele is indefinitely topic-banned from all pages relating to genetically modified organisms and agricultural chemicals, broadly construed; appeals of this ban may be requested no earlier than twelve months since the date the case closed.

For the Arbitration Committee, Miniapolis 20:25, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

Discuss this at: Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard#Genetically modified organisms case closed

I have commented on SageRad's Talk page, and feel the same way towards you. My best wishes, and please don't leave Wikipedia. We need you more than ever. Jusdafax 05:34, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

Hey

Sorry to be so blunt - but Dennis made it clear that he wanted a break from all of this. Maybe look somewhere else? — Ched :  ?  01:14, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

You deleted a polite posting of mine to another user's Talk Page! This is absolutely outrageous! How dare you! And I have just seen you are an Admin...words fail me! DrChrissy ^(talk) 01:31, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

...and you have just edited my Talk page again without my permission...DrChrissy ^(talk) 14:41, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

I reverted my own comments which were ignored not responded to. I believe that is within policy. — Ched :  ?  14:50, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

@Ched: May I hold out an olive branch to you. Looking at your Talk page, you seem to be a very genuine person, and I accept that you made the deletions to protect another editor. I still think that it is wrong to simply delete another editor's comments on a third party's Talk page, but I very likely over-reacted to your doing that. Regarding my not replying to your postings here, I was following advice (given rather ironically by Trypto) to not reply immediately to posts and to count to 10 before replying. I was still counting - I am a slow counter. So, I am hoping we can both put this episode behind us and move forward to both better the project.DrChrissy ^(talk) 20:28, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Let me just say that I've known Ched since very close to when I first started editing, and he's a fine guy and a nice person. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:34, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

I was guessing that when you recently posted on your own Talk page. It was that posting which motivated me to calm down and offer the olive branch. I hope he accepts.DrChrissy ^(talk) 20:48, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

All good; I accept - and thank you. I really was sorry to be a source of stress during difficult times, and I honestly did not mean to upset you. I thought my repeated apology notes to your page might look like badgering to you, so I thought I'd remove them. Anyway - I do wish you the best. (and ty Trypto for the kind words.) — Ched :  ?  20:56, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Thank you so much for accepting. All is now well. And I extend our mutual thanks to our Poisson of Rocks - he deserves his tubifex worms today! DrChrissy ^(talk) 21:03, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

(edit conflict) If memory serves, Ched and I first crossed paths at an RfC at Talk:Urination, so DrChrissy, draw whatever conclusions you will. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:06, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I keep a jar of freeze-dried tubifex worms for the fishes in my freshwater aquarium. I reconstitute them in a watery garlic extract, and they definitely like them. Saltwater fish, however, not so much. And me, well.... --Tryptofish (talk) 21:09, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Careful

I just went through all of JzG's edits at the Seralini affair page, and there actually is no violation of 1RR, although it came close. Please don't comment on it any further, because that page is part of your topic ban, and any further comment about it is going to get you blocked. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:34, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Tryptofish is right; any further "general" discussions about things that happen on pages you're topic banned from discussing will start resulting in blocks. I've closed the WP:AN thread. The same is going to happen if you speak with other editors about these pages in code (i.e. "that editor on that page" is not going to be an adequate defense). There are lots of people who are not topic banned who can address issues on these pages if they come up. I really suggest you remove these pages from your watchlist completely, as there is no benefit to you from seeing what happens on them. --Floquenbeam (talk) 19:39, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for the explanation. I really thought I was OK to discuss other editor's (potential) breaches of 1RR so long as I did not mention the page or topic I am banned from. It seemed to me to be a question related to another editor's behaviour, unrelated to the protection of that page. It appears I am wrong. Thank you.DrChrissy ^(talk) 19:46, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Floq is exactly right. I think you get it now, but out of friendly concern, I really want to make absolutely certain that you are clear about it. It's not OK to get involved with conduct disputes within the areas of your topic bans and your interaction ban. Even if there is bad behavior in the ban areas, you cannot utter a word about it, even if you are using crafty language, and even if it is only in user talk space. It applies both to content and to conduct discussions. OK? --Tryptofish (talk) 19:58, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Yup, I understand that now. I honestly did not appreciate that nuance of a topic ban, but I do now. Thanks as usual for the cool-headed mentoring.DrChrissy ^(talk) 20:04, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

My pleasure, and I really hope that we both can soon get back to peaceful and worry-free editing. Cheers! --Tryptofish (talk) 20:18, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

You might want to strike or remove that comment

Its likely that the comment on JzG's section violates the GMO topic ban you are under. You might want to strike/remove it. AlbinoFerret 18:42, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

That's correct. An Arb just said so, very explicitly. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:49, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

Done. Better to play safe. I have not seen the Arb's comment yet. DrChrissy ^(talk) 18:51, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

Good, I'm glad, that was a close one. It's at the noticeboard talk page, where the Arb responded to Sage below your question. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:54, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

As a rule I would avoid commenting on noticeboards on the topic if I were in your shoes. There is an exemption in your case as pertains to animals. But odds are that any noticeboard section will involve more than that. AlbinoFerret 18:57, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks both of you.DrChrissy ^(talk) 19:02, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

And you definitely want to strike this [5]. That in no way, shape or form falls under the exemptions in BANEX. You're not asking for clarification or appealing the ban in the proper venue. Capeo (talk) 16:28, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

WP:AE notification

I have opened a section on you at WP:AE regarding your recent violation of your topic ban. Please comment there. Only in death does duty end (talk) 16:22, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

DrChrissy, the above AE request has been closed with a warning to you. Your post to User talk:SlimVirgin was not one of the exemptions to your topic ban permitted by WP:BANEX. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 15:01, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for your handling of this. I note the warning and apologise to the community for breaching my exemptions.DrChrissy ^(talk) 17:27, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Seasons Greetings

Seasons Greetings!

I've been hearing from the elves that you've been a little worried about how Santa's list is looking for you. They say he's almost done with his second check, and so far it looks like you've hardly been naughty at all! Thanks for the good work you do; you have brought joy into my work here. I wish you and your family Seasons Greetings and a very Happy New Year Gandydancer (talk) 18:31, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Season's Greetings

	Wishing you a Charlie Brown Charlie Russell Christmas! 🎄
	Best wishes for your Christmas Is all you get from me 'Cause I ain't no Santa Claus Don't own no Christmas tree. But if wishes was health and money I'd fill your buck-skin poke Your doctor would go hungry An' you never would be broke." —C.M. Russell, Christmas greeting 1914. Montanabw(talk)

Reference errors on 24 December

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ARCA request archived

Just a note to let you know that your recent ARCA request has been archived.
For the Arbitration Committee, Mdann52 (talk) 17:29, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

Request to Jimbo Wales

Jimbo, I have posted below my appeal for a request to ArbCom to amend a decision of theirs. This has now been archived. As I indicated on your talk page, I believe this is a matter of principle in the way that Wikipedia operates, rather than just a single decision abut a single editor's behaviour. I have been topic banned from an area in which I have never edited. Despite my asking for evidence of such editing, none has been produced by any user or arbitrator. I feel it is a very dangerous precedent for ArbCom to ban editors from places they have not even edited, let alone disrupted.

Original email to ArbCom

I would like to request an amendment to my recently imposed topic ban.[6] I am requesting the amendment deletes the inclusion of "genetically modified plants and". I am requesting this amendment because there is a total absence of evidence that I have been disruptive in this topic area. I respectfully quote the WP:banning policy as "The purpose of a topic ban is to forbid an editor from making edits related to a certain topic area where their contributions have been disruptive, but to allow them to edit the rest of Wikipedia." (my highlighting). Below, I provide evidence that I have not been disruptive in this topic area, in fact, I have not made a single content edit about GM-plants in my history of editing WP.

I have reviewed all the submissions relating to myself presented during the evidence phase of the GMO case. There was not a single diff provided by any party which related to me editing or discussing GM-plants.

I have also reviewed all my edits for the year of 2015. This review showed that I have not made a single edit of article content relating to GM-plants. In the last 12 months, I have edited only two articles about GMOs which contain sections on GM-plants, i.e. Genetically modified food and Genetically modified organism.

I made a handful of edits (6) on the Genetically modified food article ([7]

[8] [9] [10] [11] [12]) but these were all unrelated to GM-plants.

I made 13 edits to Genetically modified organism. The vast majority of these related to animals and were often simple editorial changes such as typos, links, redundant words. I made one edit potentially tangentially related to GM-plants - I reformatted a reference title to be lowercase rather than uppercase.[13] I reverted only a single edit here[14] and although my revert was itself reverted, I did not engage in any behaviour that might be considered disruptive.

Prior to the GMO case, I was heavily involved in editing Glyphosate and I accept the ArbCom's decision to topic ban me from the area of agricultural chemicals as a remedy. However, I think there has been an inadvertent "topic-creep" which has led to the unnecessary inclusion of GM-plants in my ban. I have not been disruptive in the slightest in the topic area of GM-plants. My overall concern here is that some editors believe that because my topic ban includes plants, general GMO articles such as Genetically modified organism are included in my ban. I would be very grateful for a clarification by ArbCom that if this amendment is approved, my topic ban does not include these general GMO articles.

I respectfully await your decision on my request for an amendment.

All other editors please note, this thread is only for Jimmy Wales to comment - all other postings are highly likely to be deleted without comment by myself.

DrChrissy ^(talk) 18:17, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

Just FYI, I do not agree with the decision either but editing the article for Genetically modified fish after the decision was made restricting you from the topic probably isn't going to help your cause. Also, going to Jimbo won't help either because he has never and will never override an Arbcom sanction. As much as I too wish he would on occasion do so, its not going to happen and his name really should be removed from the policy saying he has the authority to do it. Arbcom can pretty much do anything they want and there is no appealing it, changing it or revoking it without a significant amount of work, time and luck. Good luck all the same. Maj Turmoil (talk) 20:32, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Actually, Maj, the topic ban was intentionally crafted so that writing about GM animals is OK, so there is nothing wrong with DrC working on that page. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:50, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Trypto - I was just writing a reply saying the same. I think Maj has perhaps understandably fallen into the trap of reading and believing the lies my detractors are repeatedly posting.DrChrissy ^(talk) 20:55, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Ah good to know thanks, I apologize. I hadn't read the whole thing through and didn't catch that. I simply assumed organism included animals. Maj Turmoil (talk) 21:01, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

The arbcom's DS and 1RR apply to "organisms". My topic ban applies to "genetically modified plants". Could I suggest in the friendliest of ways that you strike your misunderstanding on both this page and on my Talk page. This shows to the community that you have understood a mistake was made. Best wishes.DrChrissy ^(talk) 21:12, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Clarificaiton request filed.

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification_and_Amendment#Clarification_request:_Genetically_modified_organisms_2. Guy (Help!) 00:53, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

Happy New Year, DrChrissy!

Happy New Year!

DrChrissy,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia. LesVegas (talk) 15:45, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

Please stop!

I saw your post at Jytdog's user talk. Please stop! I don't know what you are planning about AE, but if it's about his posting at ARCA, let someone else handle that. You are under an interaction ban, and about to get yourself in deep trouble. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:51, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

FYI

Some very good comments here and here. SageRad (talk) 19:51, 2 January 2016 (UTC)